Cycle Breaking

Most of us enter parenthood, or really any significant relationship, with a plan for how we think it is going to go. The sitcom version, the book version, the "I will never do that" version. And then reality hits.

In this episode, Rebecca and Meredith get honest about the gap between what they imagined and what actually happened. They explored the patterns they broke, the ones they kept, and the long, messy, beautiful process of figuring it out as they went. Whether you're parenting right now, long past it, or just making sense of the family you came from, this conversation is for you.

Be curious. Be kind. Start with yourself.

Thriving Humans is hosted by Rebecca Thompson Hitt and Meredith Alvarado. Follow and subscribe wherever you listen.

Radical Rest Retreats are now open online. Self-directed and live group options available. Find upcoming dates and details at https://thrivinghumans.org/retreats

Podcast artwork: Visual Medicine paintings by Rebecca Thompson Hitt

Theme music composed and performed by Chris Peña · chrispenamusic.com

Transcript

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Rebecca 1:12

Before we get into today's conversation, I want to say something to those of you who aren't parents. Meredith and I both came into our own transformation through parenting. That's where the things cracked open for us, where the patterns we'd inherited became impossible to ignore. So parenting is the lens we're using in these early episodes to talk about cycle breaking. But you don't have to be a parent for any of this to apply to you. If you had a childhood, and you did, then you're carrying something from it. The patterns we're talking about show up in every relationship with partners, with friends, with colleagues, with yourself. We're using parenting as the window. You get to decide what it means for you in your own life. We are going to be talking today about cycle breaking. One of the things that we talked about pretty early on when we were talking about doing this together, Meredith, was you know, we want to communicate that we can change patterns. And if we can do it, they can do it. And I think sometimes we need that inspiration, that example, that knowledge that truly we can do it differently. And especially when we look around and everybody is doing the same things that are not what we're trying to do. It can feel really lonely. It can feel really isolating. And so we want to share some stories about what this might look like and what this looked like for us. And then we would love to hear what it looks like it looks like right now for you as well. So last week I talked a little bit about my experience of coming into parenthood. And I thought it might be a great place to start with what did we think it was going to be like when we decided to become parents? What did we think that was going to be like? And what was it actually like? Yeah. What did we want for ourselves? What do we want for our kids?

Meredith 3:09

Yeah.

Rebecca 3:09

So I don't know if you want to start and share a little bit.

Meredith 3:12

I think this is such a fun thing to consider because I think that we don't always think about it when we're in the thick of things, right? We're just in there, in deep, and we don't really reflect about it. So it is, I think, an interesting thing to consider. And I feel like also sometimes it can be affected by our life stage, like our age or experiences that we had had up to the point of becoming a parent, right? So me personally, um, I'm gonna say I was on the younger side, but um, you know, as a teenager, I babysat. And then you get a little older, and maybe if you're around relatives or you're viewing other people and their parenting, right? And of course, instantly we judge because that's we're humans. That's what we do. And so what comes up if we're thinking about, oh, someday we want to be a parent, it's like, oh, well, when I'm a parent, right? Here's how I'm gonna handle that. Here's what I would do if I were that person. Like we have no shortage of great ideas about how to parent other people's kids, right? So I think that one idea I had going into parenting was that, oh, well, you know, I've observed a lot. I've read books. Also, I was a human development major for my bachelor's degree. So of course, I already knew all these things. I'd studied these theories. And so I'm like, I've I've got all this, all this knowledge, right? And so that's gonna help me. And I think the other thing I envisioned was a little bit of like a 1980s sitcom, like those families, right? Like I saw so much of that. And it's like, sure, I know that's not real, except you see so many examples of these families and these kids, and you're thinking, oh, it's gonna be, you know, mostly fun. Uh, there might be some troubling times, but those will all get, I guess, uh resolved within 30 minutes, and you know, hijinks will ensue and everybody will, well, there'll be lots of laughing. Right, exactly, right? And at the end, we'll all hug and it's gonna be great. So I I think that that those two things are what stand out to me. It's like, oh, well, first of all, I've got all this knowledge, right? Because I've been studying human development and how families work, right? And then second of all, like, look, all these all these families are doing it and it's it's mostly fun. And there's a little bit of challenge, but you know, figure it out. So I think those are like my two overarching ideas uh going into parenting. What about you?

Rebecca 5:35

So I had an elementary education degree, and I also was almost complete with my marriage and family degree. So, oh yeah, no, no, no. I've got it figured out now. I had so much knowledge like you. Like I can do this. I had read, I'd sat on the floor at Barnes and Noble and read, I don't know how many parenting books. And, you know, I I felt like I felt like I was going to do things differently than the family I was raised in. I knew that, you know, pretty early on that I wanted things to be different. There were lots of things that I knew I didn't want to do. And at that point I felt really confident, like, ah, yeah, yeah, that was them. I I'm not gonna fall into those same traps. I'm I'm gonna have a completely different experience. I'm gonna have this, you know, really close relationship. It's, you know, yeah, yeah, there's gonna be some things I'm not gonna, you know, know how to handle, but I'm gonna be okay. We're gonna be okay. It's gonna be great. It's it's we're going to have so much fun together. I also saw like that, the fun, the joy. And I had been with some families. I was a nanny, and one of the families I was a nanny for, they just they were so close and the kids were so great. And I, and I thought this, this is how my family's going to be. Except that's not what happened. Spoiler. Right. Spoiler alert. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because when when the reality hit, I remember this moment. And I don't know. It always comes up when I start thinking about this, but like I remember this moment. I think my oldest was maybe nine months old. He was in his car seat, rear facing, and he was gagging himself. And I was driving, but I could see that this was happening. But I was like, even if I'm not driving, I have no idea what to do. I don't know how to help him. I don't know what, like, I can't make him stop. I can't, like, I can't take his hands away. I remember these moments of like, I really have no idea. I know I want to do this differently, but I don't know how. I don't have the tools.

Meredith 7:50

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that as a parent, there's really no way, just like in other areas of life, there's no way to predict the future, right? So how can we equip ourselves for things we don't even know exist, that we don't even know how to handle, that we didn't read about, that we haven't seen, you know, shows on, because new things come up all the time. I know for me, it was when my kiddo was what I like to car in this call in the starfish position with like all appendages out, right? Arms up, legs out, lying on a sidewalk in front of any random business or building, and just essentially screaming and crying, right? With all of the passers by. And my just standing there, like, uh yeah, what do I do now? What do I do? How do I make this better or different in some way? So it's yeah, those moments where we can't predict these things. And making those decisions then when you're also already stressed out, we don't exactly have the answers in those situations.

Rebecca 9:02

No. And and I think that that's a great point because, you know, we're not here to say we had this amazing journey and everything just fell into place and it was so beautiful. Like I think, I think it's important for for other parents to hear we struggled. It was not easy. And there were definitely moments that brought us to our knees that I know that I was in tears, that I had no idea what to do. And I think I felt extra judgment because I did have these two degrees. I should know. I should, I should know how to handle this, I should have more tools or something. So I think a big part of the process, too, for me has been getting out of that judgmental place for myself. It's like forgiving myself for being human, for not knowing how to handle everything, for needing to figure it out as I go, how to be responsive to the child that I actually have. Not the child I thought I was gonna have. Yep.

Meredith 10:07

Yeah, exactly. And giving yourself permission to change your mind about things, if you started off saying, I'm going to do this, and then that is not working anymore, right? Or I'm never going to do that. Right. I'm never gonna do this, right? Exactly. Like giving ourselves permission to change our mind in any moment. That's huge.

Rebecca 10:33

Yeah, yeah, because it's a journey, and it's not a journey we have control over, and it's with another person, at least, at least one other human here who is also on a journey. And we need to learn how to be in relationship with that other person, and we need to learn at each developmental stage how to be with that other person and how to be with ourselves at this developmental stage. Yeah, such a journey. Yeah. So, so are there things for you when you think about your parenting journey that you went into parenting saying, I am going to do this differently? Since we're talking about cycle breaking.

Meredith 11:18

Yes, absolutely. So for me, I grew up in a household. I'm an only child. So I grew up in a household where it was myself and a mom and a dad. That was it. Very small family. We also didn't have a lot of extended family. I didn't have any cousins, wasn't in touch with aunts and uncles, that kind of thing. So I very much was sort of the center of my mother's life. And I felt that deeply in terms of a responsibility that wasn't appropriate for me to feel, although I didn't know that at the time, right? So one of the things I knew as I got older, and and it just didn't feel good, was that I wanted to make sure my child didn't feel a responsibility for me, for my happiness, for my emotions, for all of that that really had nothing to do with them, right? So I knew I didn't know how I was gonna do that. I just knew I wanted my child to have a different experience of our being in a relationship without them having to feel some sort of responsibility for my happiness, or that their behaviors directly affected my life in such a way that they had to be aware of it all the time. And I would say the other thing that was really front of mind was that my mom yelled a lot and she had very explosive responses to things and it was scary. So I wanted to make sure that I didn't come across that way. I knew I was gonna get upset, and I just wanted different tools to handle that because I didn't want my kid to be afraid. And I remember my mom saying, your child should always be a little afraid of you because that's how you get them to do things, right? That's how you get them to agree to what you need. And so she would impart these little bits of quote wisdom of information, right? And I remember even as a young person thinking, that doesn't really sound right to me. I'm not actually sure that is what I want. I would listen and not argue because that was frowned upon. Um, and also as I got older, I thought, yeah, actually that's not what I want. I don't want my child to be afraid of me. I don't want them to feel fear in their own home because of the things I'm doing or saying to them. So I would say those are two things that I went into parenting with, really aware of and cognizant of.

Rebecca 13:51

And that that awareness, that clarity coming in helps at least give you a true north. It's a direction, it's a you know, something that you're holding for yourself and and for your child as well. Yeah. So so for me, I I grew up in a chaotic household. A lot of chaos, but then also a lot of rigidity. Both. And so I didn't want either of those for my kids. I didn't want there to be rigidity around rules, and I also didn't want there to be the chaos because it's a really weird place to grow up in between those two. And and I often found myself either in rigidity or chaos, because that's my experience. That's what my my body seemed to orient back to. But I was very clear that I wanted to do that differently. I was very clear that I wanted my kids to feel safe enough that they could come and ask for help if they needed it. And I remember that even when my son was less than a year old. I wanted him to feel like he could come to me. He could crawl over to me or whatever, toddle over to me. And and I would be there to help him. I wanted him to know that because that was something that I grew up without the sense of in all of the chaos. I didn't have that. And I really wanted that for my kids.

Meredith 15:22

Yeah.

Rebecca 15:23

And I'd I wanted to, I wanted to have an environment where everybody felt welcome and where feelings were welcomed and expressions, and you could be yourself and where wherever you were. I just wanted that space for my kids, which is very different than the way that I grew up. I mean, there was a lot of chaos and yelling and hitting that I I did not want to repeat.

Meredith 15:50

Yeah. I am curious and I wonder if you could speak to having more than one kiddo, which I didn't exactly. Um did did you after your first child, did you reflect on some of these things? And were there any changes or I guess further insights um that you had, you know, between your your kiddos?

Rebecca 16:17

So many. So many. I realized, and I can say now, there were lots of things that supported me to be more regulated with my first. And a lot of the practices that I was doing, the baby wearing, the breastfeeding, the co-sleeping, they were very supportive for me also. And I think that that helped me to have a little bit more capacity to deal with the stress because I think I didn't, I didn't anticipate the degree of stress that I would be under as a parent and as basically a stay-at-home parent and not having as much support. And so I also, when I had my second, I made sure that we had lots of community, lots of other layers of support, because I really felt like that was missing with my first. Like I think that I had this idea, and maybe some of it is from all the literature that I read, you know, attachment and not parenting, but just attachment relationships, you know, okay, I'm the most important relationship for this child, and not including that larger community as part of the resource for my family. And the family that I grew up when, I was young, my parents had more resources. And when I got older, there weren't as many at all. And so I feel like that was something that that I reflected on and I and I actually worked hard to make different for myself, for my kids. Where is our community? Where where are our people? Where are the people for them who can look out for them also? So that it's not just on me. That's great.

Meredith 18:06

That's really good. I feel like that's it's so such a gift to pass on to our kids because that wasn't something I saw growing up. We were just sort of our own little three people. My parents didn't have very many friends. We were not involved in the outside community. And so I didn't get that. I didn't see it. Unfortunately, that was one of the things I repeated because it wasn't top of mind to do differently, right? And so at some point I realized it. And then someone pointed out to me, well, you're also modeling that for your kiddo, right? And what do you want to show them when it comes to having community, having support, reaching out, asking for help, accepting offers of help. So I think that's huge. That's really great that you were able to do that.

Rebecca 19:03

Yeah. And it's it's I think what you just said really makes it clear. It's like I have this idea of something that I want my kids to be able to do and how we need to be doing it, not just with them, but also in the in the macro, in the bigger space. It's not just what I'm doing here, it's also what I'm doing out in the world and what I'm creating around that it can't only be this thing here. Though that helps. It's starting point, you know. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So was there anything that you kept the same from when you were growing up?

Meredith 19:45

Yes, there was one thing that I really appreciated about how I was raised, and that was that my mom in particular was so forthcoming with me and honest about things that I knew that when I did go to her with a question, a concern, a curiosity, she was going to be honest with me. She was going to be upfront with me. She was not going to hide things from me. In spite of what I knew was maybe like my grandmother's opinion or her friends, you know, other community members or people telling her, Oh, why are you talking to your child about that? You should keep this, you know, shouldn't be sharing that with her, that kind of thing. I knew she faced some pushback from others. Um and I really appreciated that I knew I could trust her with things like that and that I would get a straight answer. And I definitely wanted to and did keep that. And I'm so glad because my kiddo, who's now almost 20, knows that they can come to me and that I will tell them the truth and that they can believe what I say. And it sounds like such a simple thing. It's just that I think sometimes as parents, we do get concerned about how much should I say? How much will they understand? What if this upsets them, right? Just that alone can often be a reason for us to hold back. And it's certainly not that we need to tell our kids every thought that comes through our brains. It's just that, you know, there's a lot in between that and not being forthright, you know, not being forthcoming, not telling them the truth, just straight out making stuff up because we're uncomfortable, right? Um, so that piece was really important for me to continue because I appreciated that and I could feel what it was like to know, okay, well, there is one thing I can count on with my parent. Like I can go to them and ask them things. And I'm if they don't know, they'll tell me they don't know. And also they'll be as honest as they can be with me. So that was something that I kept.

Rebecca 21:52

Yeah, you know, one of the things that that my parents did when I was growing up was that they one encourage us to be outside and that connection with nature and like a lot of things, especially when I was younger, with my dad doing the play with us, you know, going, taking us ice skating, taking us sledding, taking us out into the world. And and then also supporting us in whatever we were interested in. And so I had a lot of support in that way. And I think that it looked very different for my kids. I was in music and I played instruments and I was in theater, and my kids weren't interested in those things. But it looked more like, I'm seeing these are your needs. Here's some opportunities that I think will support you. And so I think that that's one of the things that I kept because I was also that that helped me to connect with the people that I needed to connect with and supporting my passions in those ways helped me to grow in ways that I was not growing at home. And so I'm glad that they let me go out in those ways and supported that going out. Is there something that when you were Parenting, maybe younger kiddo, that you thought was going to look a certain way. When you got into it, you realized this is not working for me. It's not working for my kiddo. And you got to that place where you recognized that maybe there was another choice. Maybe it was a third choice. Maybe it was, you know, something else that you didn't think of before.

Meredith 23:35

Yeah. So as it pertains to sleep in particular, uh, I had gone into parenting with some ideas based on what I'd heard and what I've been told and all of that. And one of those things was the baby goes in the crib, which goes in the room, which is not your room. End of story. Goodbye, right? And I was not introduced to attachment parenting principles until my cadot was out of babyhood. So it was, you know, they were past one already. So things worked until they didn't. And then as my child transitioned, and it was like, wait, this was easy, it worked, and now something's not working, but I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do, right? I'm doing it all the right way. Um, lots of quotes for those of you who are listening. And so um it was in those, that kind of moment, right? Where it was in those moments where I thought, oh, my child is miserable. I'm miserable. Like, why do I think that this way that I've been told is actually right? There doesn't feel like there's anything right about it. Um, and so then it was, well, let's try this. Let's try that. And I was partnered at the time. Um, you know, so it's like also when there are two adult opinions or more, you know, in this case at more than one, then it's like, oh, maybe we don't feel the same way. So then we have to navigate that. And so thankfully, I realized that what was going to work best was for our kiddo to be in our room minimally. And, you know, as they got to a different stage, or depending on their preference, maybe they didn't want to be in the bed, maybe they wanted to be on the floor next to us, maybe they wanted to be at the foot of the bed, maybe they wanted to have their own little space. That also changed, right? Once everyone figured out what worked. It was just that once I was able to release that rigid hold on, but this is what I thought was supposed to happen. And releasing the hold on, caring what anyone else thought, learning that, you know what, maybe sometimes I don't want to share certain things about my parenting decisions with certain people, you know, finding that community that understood what it was like to parent intuitively and to actually listen to what felt right for me and for my child. That was a huge game changer as well. Right. So again, back to that support, back to the community. So important. And just being able to trust myself because as soon as I did that with that situation, everyone was happier. Everyone was getting sleep, everyone was comfortable, you know. And it's like in retrospect, I think, wow, that seems like it could have been easier. You know, um a lot less crying from everyone. Right. So that's uh an example that really stands out to me from my parenting experience. Sleep.

Rebecca 26:39

Yeah, yeah. We also had the crib that, you know, you have to get. And um, and I shared last last week that I was reading all these books because my midwife kept saying, you know. And so I I read the, she gave me the family bed. And I remember looking at the book and saying, okay, well, I really respect her, so I'm gonna take this book home. But, you know, I'm not, we're not co-sleeping. Like, no, that's it's like babies sleep in another room in a crib. That's that's how that works. And and it was the day before my my next prenatal appointment, and I hadn't read the book yet. And I I knew I needed to at least open it so that I could, you know, politely hand it back and say, yeah, this isn't gonna work for my family. And when I opened it and started reading it, I was like, oh my God, I need to co-sleep. This is this, like, I need to do this. This actually feels right in my body, and now the crib feels not right in my body. And you know, and so I went back and I said, Yeah, I'm not done reading this book. This this is really, this is really good. Thank you for giving it to me. Um, and I didn't share the other part. Um, and then thank goodness, because when my baby came home from the hospital, he screamed all the time and I could never put him down. So that book actually prepared me to parent the baby that I had. And we had cats at the time. The cat spent way more time in the crib. I mean, I don't think that he ever slept in this crib that we had set up. But then we I had the tools and the information to make it safe for us to co-sleep because obviously, you know, you don't just throw the baby in the bed with all the pillows and all the bedding and all of that. You know, there are there are ways to keep your baby and yourselves safe when you're co-sleeping. And so, but I got a lot of pushback from from lots of people who had different ideas about where babies were supposed to sleep. And, but yet I knew it was right for us. I knew. I knew. And it was a such a process of learning to trust. And I remember there was one one morning when I think my my oldest was about four months old, and he woke up, I was still asleep, and he crawled across, like scooted himself, because he wasn't even crawling it, scooted himself across my body to my arm. I had a bare spot on my arm, and he like blew a raspberry on my arm. And and I woke up and he looks up and he's got this giant grin. And I'm like, oh, this is such a good decision. This, these are the moments. Like, this is what I want to remember 27 years later.

Meredith 29:35

Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca 29:37

But such a process of getting to that place where I could trust myself and trust my knowing and trust my baby.

Meredith 29:45

Yeah, it is a process. And it's sometimes easier than others. It's kind of all over the place, right? Just like life. Sometimes it clicks, right? And it's like, oh, this is for me. I know it. Sometimes we're still listening to other opinions, or we're, you know, connected with someone who also has influence who doesn't agree. And so all those things can contribute. It's just good to remember that it can happen, right? Things can change and to not feel like we are stuck in a phase or stuck with a choice, all of that, right? It's not the case. Change can always happen. It may just look like a process, it may not happen overnight. You may try a method of something and it's not the next best thing. So you move on to the additional idea, right? And just being flexible enough and open enough to realize that we don't have the answers and being able to approach it as a bit of an experiment because you will need to try things and find out if they work for everybody. At least you know you're in that process.

Rebecca 31:02

Right. And I think that that this has come up so many times in the last week or so, this idea of process versus product, because we are so focused on the outcome. And oh my gosh, if I don't make this behavior stop right now, then the outcome is going to be, you know, this child is going to be in jail. This child is going to be, you know, they'll never have a job. They'll never, and you're looking at your three-year-old and, you know, worried about the outcome, you know, decades later. And it takes us out of this moment and really the recognition of this is a process and it's messy. Sometimes it's really messy. And I can say there were many years of my parenting that were so messy. And I didn't know how to support myself. I didn't know how to support my kiddo with what he was going through. And it was really, really rough. And that's part of the process for how we got where we got to and where we are now. Because now I have a really good relationship with both of my kids. And it was hard-earned. It didn't come easily. It wasn't, ah, like the sitcoms, you know. Right. It wasn't like that at all. It was messy and difficult, and there were lots of tears. And that was the process that we needed to go through, that I needed to go through to grow myself up, to heal things, the things that didn't happen that needed to have happened, and the things that happened that shouldn't have happened, and how those were showing up in my parenting, because I had work to do so that I could really show up with my kids for who they are and for what they're needing and not only what I'm needing, or giving myself up, which was also modeled for me, so that I can try to meet their needs, but leaving myself out of the equation. And so there was so much of that back and forth of like, okay, now I'm taking care of your needs, but I'm neglecting mine. Okay, now I'm neglecting your needs, but I'm taking care of mine. How do we find this balance? How do we how do we find our way through and then back into connection in mutual support and cooperation, where we're working together, where my needs are not more important, their needs are not more important, but also my needs are important and their needs are important. I matter, they matter. And I think that that kind of became a like a North Star for me. How do we do this so that we're all important here and we're all working together in a way that feels good for all of us?

Meredith 34:06

And that's huge. And I have to say to just yeah, put in the plug for you because honestly, your guidance when I was in those moments was amazing. It's honestly like your ideas and your help got me through so many of those difficult times because I had been someone who had always put the other person first, even prior to parenting. That wasn't really evident to me until I was in the moment of parenting. Because a lot of times we don't realize some of the things we haven't processed or dealt with until we're actually already parents, right? Right. And so realizing that, oh, actually I also matter. We both do, right? It's like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's oh, hey, crazy idea, but yeah. And so I do think I'm I know I'm not the only parent that struggled with that, right? Of of pleasing everyone else, right? And our kids are no exception. So then it's like, what are we prioritizing? And then it gets to be the case that everybody's needs matter and they all get to be attended to. And so balancing that then makes it so that people aren't resentful and hurt and all of that. So yeah, your work is is amazing with that. Thank you. Thanks.

Rebecca 35:32

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's such a process. It's such a process. And we show up as we are with our strengths, with our weaknesses, with our challenges, with, you know, we show up with all of us and we aren't going to have seen all of us and all of the things. And sometimes a particular child, being a mom of two, um, sometimes a particular child will bring something out that another child will not. And so while you are parenting the first, and you think, all right, I'm finally hitting astride, I think I've finally figured this out. And then you have the other kid who comes and you realize that, you know, there's some transference of information and and knowledge and all of that, but mostly you're just starting over with another human being. Um, and that human being will bring up different things than the other one. So it's like my my two kids, I can say, between the two of them, they did a pretty good job of growing me up. Maybe we can we can talk a little bit about where we are now and the stage of parenting we're in now, and just touch on that a little bit because I think we're gonna talk more about that and our responsibilities are as our kids grow next time. But but maybe we can just touch a little bit on where we are right now. Yes, yeah.

Meredith 37:01

So, I am in the phase of life where my kiddo no longer lives with me. They actually live in another state that's a fair amount of distance away. Um, and they are 19, they're gonna be 20 in a few months. And we have such a great relationship that I love this phase of being able to look back and talk about all of these years, right? The earlier years and all the challenges. Because when you're in that, I distinctly recall feeling like, how am I ever gonna get through this? This is never gonna end. You know, like I can't see beyond like this really challenging moment, right? And so it's great to be in this position to be able to say, Hey, I did it, I made it. Not only did I survive, but I thrived. Yay! I know, right? It's like, ooh. Um, you know, yeah, those were some tough times. And I am really noticing now the benefits of some of those challenges, the things that I did that were unconventional when people said, Oh, but why are you doing this? Everybody else is doing it this way. And I remember thinking, because I want this relationship, right? I want the relationship in the future. I want something more than just them to do exactly what I want them to do right a second, because that's fleeting and really meaningless, right? I knew that in the long run, I wanted them to be able to trust me. I wanted them to feel comfortable around me, right? I I wanted them to want a relationship. I certainly saw from peers and other people I knew folks who had just completely cut their parents out for different reasons, right? And ultimately I knew that would be my child's decision. And also I didn't want to be the reason in a way that was preventable, right? From my just not valuing the relationship. So I'm so grateful that I'm at the stage where my kiddo and I keep in really great contact. They tell me things, they've always told me things through all of the teen years. They told me things that I'm thinking nobody else is telling their parents this. I mean, I was I never said that. I was grateful, right? But I'm I'm not thinking, you know. Um, yeah, sharing things with me, you know, social media, like showing me their social media, you know, I wasn't being like blocked or nothing was hidden, all that kind of stuff that a lot of, you know, kids in this generation might do. It's like I could tell that they knew it was okay to share these things with me. They can tell me, you know, what other we consider bad news and it's gonna be fine. I was gonna be able to be there to support them through that. And also I was able to admit I wasn't perfect. Like the two of us have been able to have conversations, right, about their childhood. And I have not ever put myself, you know, on some pedestal as like I was the model parent. Like, no, we can have these honest conversations and I can be like, yeah, that sucked. Really wish I hadn't said that. Really wish I hadn't done that, you know. Like we can have those conversations about the past. So, you know, there's no topic that's off limits. And obviously, if they didn't feel, you know, comfortable having those conversations, they wouldn't be happening. So that's where I am. I'm in the place of support. I'm here if they need me. You know, they're doing their thing elsewhere. So we're not together on a regular basis. Uh, we still spend time together if we're able to travel. And yeah, it just feels really nice. Um, I'm really happy with the life stage I'm in right now.

Rebecca 40:44

So that's and I love hearing too about how the decisions that you made earlier have really enabled this time to be so beautiful. You know, yes. It's you have this relationship that that you you look around and you see that other parents do not have with their kids. And that's that's huge. That's huge. And and I hear that from a lot of parents too. My gosh, my kid is telling, I never would have said this to my parent. I never, and it's like kids who are raised this way continue sharing long after we stopped sharing things and things that were taboo, things that, you know, wow, I really never want to talk to my parents. I still talk to my parents about X, Y, or Z, but that trust in the relationship that was built all of those years so that they can come to us and they know that that we're going to support them and that they can say anything.

Meredith 41:56

Yeah. That's cool.

Rebecca 41:59

Thank you.

Meredith 42:01

What about your phase of parenting?

Rebecca 42:03

Yeah, my phase. So I have two young adults, they're 27 and 22 now. And right now we are in different countries, also distanced. The two of them are living together, and that's been super sweet. When when my kids were little and they fought all the time, I thought they are never going to ever be friends. And, you know, there's always going to be this dynamic and they're five years apart. And so blah, blah, blah. But something shifted, I think, when my youngest was about 13, when they started having enough in common. And now I will, I will message and say, Hey, do you want to talk? And I'll get a message back saying, um, well, you know, Josh and I are getting ready to go do something together because he just got off of work. And so we've got plans. And that warms my mother's heart. Like, I can't even tell you because the two of them live together on their own, and they are they're really good friends, and they know how to handle conflicts that come up between them, and there have been. And my role has very much been okay, what are you needing now? How can I support you? And I get I get called in when there's something that's big that's going on, or that when they need a little bit more support. Or right now, my my youngest son is looking at college, and so I'm I'm being brought in a little bit more because he wants some more support to talk through different options and um and and he wants me there. And I I ask, you know, do you do you want me to to be on this call with this admissions counselor? Yeah, please. And can we talk before? Because I want to talk a little bit about, you know, what this is like for me. And like like your kiddo, mine are living their lives most of the time. They're handling things, but they reach out when they need something. Or it's also super sweet because it's not even just when they need something, but uh for many, many years, my husband and I would go watch the sunset. And I can't tell you how many times my son will send a random sunset picture, you know, and just say happy sunset. So it's just like these, you know, hey, I know this is something that you like. It's very much that back and forth. It's not a, you know, not just a parent child, you're younger and you don't know very much and all of that, but it's really this it's more of an equal because now we're both adults, but I'm still their parent. But there's like an honoring that I am also a human, I think is is how I can best explain that. You know, and the understanding that I, you know, I make mistakes, I'm still making mistakes, you know, like this is this is part of the package, and they make mistakes too, and there's room. For that. So with this phase of parenting, there's a lot more space. It's a lot less intense. Um, but there are still times where they have needs. And so I show up. Um, but I'm really enjoying it. I'm really enjoying the humans that they are, and at this stage of their lives and the different directions, and they're discovering so much about themselves and what they need and what they want for themselves that I didn't have, frankly, at their age. So it's really cool to see that and see them because I can really see so many cycles have been broken. I can see that. And I'm, and I could not be happier. Is it all perfect and roses and no, no, but like the the the difference between where I started from, what happened for them, and where they are now is is really uh it's really amazing.

Meredith 46:12

Good stuff. That's great. So good.

Rebecca 46:19

Yeah. So we'll go ahead and transition to the end. So next week we're gonna talk. I think I think it's great because we we talked a lot about the beginning, and then we just talked about this like ending. It's not really an ending of parenting, but more of this parenting young adults stage. Yes. And I think that it'll be really good to talk about what it's like as they grow. Like what happened in the middle? What happened in the middle? We got bookends, but yeah, then what? And and um because I know that there are there are many parents listening who aren't going to be in the the very beginnings. There are some who are gonna be in the very ends, and there's also gonna be a lot of you who are in the middle somewhere. And um and the stuff that happens in the middle is also really important. So we don't want to skip over that. Right.

Meredith 47:13

Yeah.

Rebecca 47:15

So thank you so much, Meredith. You're welcome. Thank you next next time.