How to Avoid Digital Burnout in 2026

Most founders burn out chasing more. Alex Ikonn did the opposite.

He built Luxy Hair into one of the first ecommerce brands built almost entirely on YouTube: 500M+ views, 3M subscribers, millions in annual cash flow, two employees.

Then he sold it, because the success left him empty. He went on to build Intelligent Change, the company behind the Five Minute Journal, into a business he's run for over a decade without burning out.

His whole approach comes down to one idea: stop doing the work that drains you, and protect your peace in a world built to keep you anxious and online.

In this episode he breaks down:
  - Why working on something you don't love is what actually burns you out
  - How he stays calm while everyone else drowns in productivity anxiety
  - The morning system he uses to start the day on offense, not on his phone
  - Why he plays long-term games and leaves money on the table on purpose
  - How he sold the business without selling himself

Everything from this episode, structured into a free playbook: https://www.elevatorgoods.com/talks/alex-ikonn

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Website: https://www.elevatorgoods.com

Follow Monish Sabnani (Host):
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/msabnani93/
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Follow Alex Ikonn:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alexikonn/
X: https://x.com/AlexIkonn
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexikonn/
Intelligent Change: https://www.instagram.com/intelligentchange/


  Chapters
  00:00 Intro
  00:24 Selling flowers at 11, then getting fired from the bank in 2008
  02:28 Gary Vee, Tim Ferriss, and starting Luxy Hair in 2010
  03:07 Why hair extensions, and doubling the product the factories said was crazy
  05:00 Building a DTC brand on YouTube before Instagram existed
  06:51 The void after success, and deciding to exit
  09:34 How Intelligent Change and the Five Minute Journal began
  13:33 Selling the system, not the founder (Traction / EOS)
  15:30 Visionary vs integrator
  17:10 Be careful with your bankers
  18:26 Patience, leverage, and a 40% higher offer
  19:07 Starting a business today vs 16 years ago
  21:25 Knowing your number and the productivity-anxiety bubble
  27:46 The Intelligent Change system: a toothbrush for your mind
  33:21 Eat the frog: the one task that matters
  35:05 Why he's optimistic about AI and being more human
  37:39 Burnout, ikigai, and working on something you love
  41:59 His full morning routine
  51:15 Running the Five Minute Journal as a business
  54:00 Leaving money on the table on purpose
  56:00 Prompt yourself: the Life Designer
  59:16 Why he named the company Intelligent Change
  01:00:00 The next big market: real-world community
  01:01:00 The loneliness epidemic and the return to being human
  01:02:19 On kids, time, and being present

  ---
  #ecommerce #dtc #brandbuilding #entrepreneurship #burnout #fiveminutejournal #intelligentchange  #mentalhealth

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you run an e-commerce brand, you know the feeling. You can't put your phone down. You're checking ad spend at midnight and there's always one more thing. One more launch. One more channel. So here's the question nobody asks. You grind for years, you finally exit, and then what? You go back and do it all over again? AlexIcon was one of us. He built a hair extensions brand called Luxie Hair, got half a billion views on YouTube, and sold it in 2018. And then he did the thing almost no founder does. He decided he wanted less. But instead of going back for more, he built a five-minute journal, a toothbrush for your mind, now used by millions to help you get offline. This one's for the digitally addicted. How to get off the hamstrhe, AlexIcon style. Alright, Alex, nice to meet you, and welcome to Elevator Talks.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

So wanna get into a lot. Um, in particular, intelligent change. I know is what you're focused on right now. But before we do that, I want to spend maybe five minutes or so just getting your history. E-commerce, I know you're running a different business, you sold it, and now you're here. So what was what was like the five-minute history of what you were doing prior to this?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I think most importantly, I have to start with being like 11 years old, immigrant in Canada from Russia, having you know a single mother with two kids who can't provide for us, and me wanting to be like, hey, I want to go to the movies, and my mom's like, sorry, don't have money. I don't want to be just a regular kid, but I didn't have that means to be able to do that thing, so I had to like figure out what to do. And my sister's like, hey, there's this guy who's um picks up random kids who's so like wrong, and uh makes them like sell flowers at different corners of like strip mall plazas around Toronto, and so I'll be out there on weekends hustling, selling flowers for cash. So see, that's where my first like merchant hustling career started. And I the reason I start with that, that's where I really learn about commerce and and then obviously e-commerce, what I do now. I think sometimes people overcomplicate what running a business or selling is. It really is as I was doing when I was 11 years old, which was you know, you get inventory, you get stock, you know, which I would get for, let's say, for $30, and whatever I make up, that's my margin, that's that's how and that's what I'm gonna make. And that's it. It's it's cash in, cash out. That's what commerce is, and I think people overcomplicate it. So that's where really I'll say my career started, but obviously that didn't last too long, it was just for for cash. And then I got I want to be a banker. So similar to your bank background, back in the day growing up, it wasn't e-commerce, it wasn't entrepreneurship, it was more about finance, banking, Wall Street, you know, that's where the money is. And again, growing up poor, that's where I wanted to be. So I was inspired to be a banker, and that's what I was, you know, studying business in school, uh, passing my also kind of course for financials and things like that, beyond that path. And then 2008 came and I got fired from the bank. And that was a blessing in disguise. And now I use it when I fire people sometimes. Like, hey, I'm here because I got fired. Yeah, this can be a blessing. This will be a blessing for you. It's gonna push you on the right path. So I'm really grateful that I got fired because that's when I'm like when I discover, let's say, somebody like Gary Vaynerchuk, and that's when the whole entrepreneurship culture and I will say 08 started. Yeah. And I said, Hey, why why don't I give this thing a shot and try to figure it out? And then obviously, another inspiration for me was Tim Ferris with the four-hour work week. So I kind of mixed Gary Vaynerchuck Hustle and Tim Ferris Lifestyle, and then my businesses were born, and that's kind of where the first business, Luxie Hair, was born in 2010. So it's almost 16 years ago. So let's let's talk Luxie Hair.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

So, what was that process like? Why did you even pick that category?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

It's a good question. So I think when choosing and creating a business, you obviously are doing it because you want to make money, right? That's that's the initial push for most of us starting a business. Like, hey, I want to make money, so where can I do it? And in the four-hour work week, he speaks about having your muse, your inspiration that will help you create a business. Because a lot of us don't start off with an idea of what do we actually want to do, what do we want to sell. And I was just lucky enough looking for ideas, and at that time I was about to get married. You know, my fiance at the time was like frustrated and was like, Oh, like I spent 200, 300 bucks on this product, hair extensions, and they suck and I feel so stupid. And she's she was complaining to her sister, not even me. And there I was just thinking about what idea do I start? And I just started being curious and asking her questions like, why are you so sad? Why are you so angry? Yeah, and she stated her problem, right? Which is she couldn't get the quality of a product that she wants at the price point that she wants. And that's why I'm like, I looked into you know, Alibaba, how much does this thing actually cost? Also, kind of modified the product because at that time the market was only selling product that was not enough for women who say with more hair. So you needed at least double volume what they were selling. I had to actually tell the factories like, hey, instead of 60, 80 grams that you sell, I need 160. And they'd be like, that's too much, that's crazy, it's not gonna like go on the this weave. Well, I'm like, make it happen. You know, that's what we're gonna sell. And obviously, this is pre-direct to consumer. Um, 2010, it was just kind of about to start. And I would say like Everlane as well, after was kind of starting out, so I was just inspired as well. We don't need to do retail and all this stuff, and let's just do direct to consumer before even knowing what direct to consumer was, and just being like, okay, what minimal margin do we need to really sell a product at wholesale? We were selling something that was priced at $300 at half the price, so at wholesale directly to consumer, and it kind of just kicked off. I think it was just a perfect storm of be able to provide a product that gives a lot of value and the word spreads. And obviously, of course, we understood back then the change that was already happening with Facebook, YouTube, this is pre-Instagram, and we didn't have a lot a lot of money that we have to produce content. And so that business was really built with YouTube. And I just said to then, you know, my fiance, we're gonna become business partners. We threw in her sister because she was also out of work, and so it was three of us. And I said, You girls make at least one video a week each on this channel, and that channel then blew up, and um, you know, over half a billion views, three million subscribers, and we kind of really just grew that business organically. And the punchline of the story, I did actually live the four-hour work week. So I could have, of course, built probably a way larger business, but I was like, this is great, and I would just have like two employees at even at peak and just chilling, traveling, surfing Costa Rica, you know, traveling the world and doing things like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

I love this because you were doing everything that everyone's doing now, but you were doing it way before. Way before. Um I'm intentionally kind of moving a bit fast because I want to get to intelligent change, but I also want to talk quickly about the sale and how you you know exited that, what that process looked like. Because I I think this is such an interesting topic, and most people don't sell their business, they wind up either keeping it or winding it down or goes out of business. So talk to me about that. What was that like?

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Same thing. I think different environment than what we're living in now, the information that we have, these type of podcasts, a lot of this didn't exist. And selling a business was not something that was on my horizon at first because I was just creating a lifestyle business and a cash flow generating business. So I had you know a business that was generating, you know, two million plus in like free cash flow, two staff, like as as being my 20s, like life is good, you know. What else do you actually need? Yeah, and the reason the sale actually um came about was like I we started getting depressed with the business, and this is something we can kind of get into after because the reality that most founders don't speak about, because the reality is not many succeed, but what happens after you actually succeed? And in the four-hour work week, he has this chapter which I avoided because I didn't care about it, which is filling the void. Yes, like what happens once the void comes, and the void it really is is like you achieve your dream, you're making millions of dollars, you're traveling the world, you have your dream life, you have your dream house, car, then what? And then the void was I really don't care about hair extensions. This is not a business that serves my meaning and purpose. It of course it fulfills mean helping me have a certain life, and I'm super grateful for it. Yet, what I realized then is building and having a meaning of life, and that is the work that you do daily, and for me that wasn't really fulfilling. And so, and then we started getting approached by you know private equity, by BCs, obviously, like, hey, like let's grow or let's we'll give you more equity and capital to make this a really big thing, let's make lots of money. I think to be honest, coming from a humble environment, I kind of always already was like, I understood this is enough, and just having a fancier car or a fancier house is not really gonna like make me that much happier. And so we just look at started looking for opportunities to be able to exit and do something else because already early um I started working on intelligent change. So, intelligent change, uh, the idea of it started 2011 because somebody approached me who would become my future business partner and said, Hey, teach me how to create this lifestyle business. Like I heard you're the guy who's actually done the four-hour work week, who lives it, and it's real. You know, it's like it's it's not a myth, it is it's like a reality. And I said, Yeah, for sure, but I've already worked four hours today. Exactly. So, and I told him right away from what I knew, and don't create a business just for the sake of money. Because the reality is if you succeed and you get here, you're gonna get into this void. I recommend for you to reverse engineer and build a business with the idea of what do you actually deeply care about? And you know, he was also Indian by heritage and very spiritual, and say, Hey, what do you actually like to do? And he's like, Well, like I like to meditate, I I work out, I journal. He used to journal like an hour a day, work out for an hour, meditate for an hour. Yeah, like a three-hour morning, would see. Yeah, and I was like, dude, that's great, but I don't want to journal for an hour or meditate, like it's it's a lot. I just want to, again, as uh Tim Ferris spoke about in the for work week, I want an 80-20 Brado's law. How do I get to 80% results of just 20% amount of effort? And that's really my philosophy uh to life, and that's how then we created the five-minute journal together. Uh, but jumping back to your question to get back to you, is that I wanted an exit, I just didn't want to do the business anymore.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

So you were seeking it out.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah, and at the same time, I've seen many founders of friends who would hit this crisis and void and destroy everything. You know, they will build something of value and they'll be like, this doesn't bring me meaning, and they burn it. Like I've seen friends with multi-million dollar businesses that go to zero because they just lost passion and like I didn't do that. I was like, hey, let me uh maximize let me maximize the exit. There's you know, there's people approaching me who want to invest. Um, I don't want to take in money, and that's again the route that I understood is the moment you take in money, you have a boss, yeah, and you have a certain uh outcome that you need to deliver to them. I'll I would I feel responsible to my investors as well to be able to deliver, but it's not the path that I wanted to be on. And the other thing is, you know, we had this thing in the business where so much of the business was driven organically by my wife at the time and her channel and her personality. So it's not like you I think a lot of people also deal with this now where they build something that is very personality driven or it is tied into their personal brand. Like, how do you sell that? And what I understood is we have to somehow exit and prove um that we can uh grow the business without Mimi, who's who is my partner, yeah. And because and the moment really came because we met with someone who was interested, who reached out, wanted to buy the business, like a little private equity firm, and we met with them in New York, and they're like, hey, well, great, bunch of kids running the business, but they see a lot of opportunity just lowballed us, and they gave us like, you know, probably like a three to four X IBIT multiple to buy the business. And then I'm like, why would I sell to them for the just the next three years of my cash flows? I'll rather just keep it myself and reverse engineer it to show how I can get a higher multiple and at the same time prove that it can grow without Mimi. And it was perfect timing because uh she was about to give birth to our daughter and she wanted to stop doing YouTube because that's another thing. Many YouTubers who are even successful, it's it's exhausting. Like as a content creator, you don't want to keep doing it for for a long time and like pumping out content, it's it's really exhausting. Yeah, so she's like, and I said, Hey babe, don't worry, quit doing this, and we'll figure it out. In terms of like, I then actually went into non-four-hour work week mode. Started working hard. Actually working, actually hiring out a team, and somebody who was a you know a friend and a mentor of mine who blew up now is Dan Martell. Okay. So Dan Martell, you know, he was a friend and somebody I I knew, and I told him, Hey, I want to exit and I want to grow kind of this business. And he told me, and I believe he still recommends his book to this day, he's like, Read Traction by Geno Wickman. Have you heard of Traction? Out of everything that I read, this was it, this was the best guide because even as you know, going to business school, which I did, and a lot of the stuff time they don't teach you about real small businesses and like how to scale from zero to two million, two million to like 50 million at those stages. It's very different business from what you learn about business in business business school because they teach you about like corporate corporations. Yeah. And traction still to this day, I would say it's probably one of the best resources, is called EOS, entrepreneur operating system, is what they run on. And you probably already a lot of people regurgitate the content that was put in traction, but it gave me a few things that have been uh monumental and helped me actually scale and build a business. Because when someone's gonna buy your business, they don't want to actually buy you. Yeah, they want to buy the system, they wanna they want to buy the system. And if you're if your business is actually has a system and it's operating and it's predictable as a team for revenue, that's what they want to acquire. Because if they know they're not just buying a founder with an idea, yeah, and so one of those uh also uh most important ideas that I got from the book was Gino speaks about that there's usually two types of founders, right? Which is visionary and integrator. And most founders are visionaries, you know, they have a certain vision, they want to bring it to life, and in early days you try to do everything as you scale. Sometimes that can be in your co-founder relationship, you'll have an integrator, meaning the operator, you know, usually CEO and a COO. And for me, I was missing an integrator to really professionalize the business, also keep running you know, meetings and getting the whole team organizing and building out kind of a proper team, and that's where I was able to then find an integrator that we then scaled the business. So the next then two to three years, we doubled the revenue and kind of pitched the business and sold it. I'll say we sold it early in 2018, like our competitors who came in directly ripped off our business model, you know, even their first website was our images, like our copy, they just put a different brand on it. Yeah, they sold probably for 10x what I've sold for because they were really aggressive and they stuck the course. Yeah. The reason I share that, there's also a lesson. Of course, there's it's never there's not a perfect time to time your your also exit. For me, it was the amount that I wanted and I was happy with when we sold. And um to this day I'm still spending that money. So it's all great. Um, but that was really the exit and how it came about.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Hey, I'm Anish. And I just want to quickly give you more context on the world of Elevator. Elevator goods is where we build our brands from the ground up, owning the product, operations, and growth. Elevator Capital is where we invest in brands worth betting on, backing founders with capital, mentorship, and connections. Elevator Talks is where we document it all, sitting down with operators who've actually done it, going deep on their frameworks, their numbers, and the decisions they made to move the needle. Elevator Creators is where we help creators build brands, leveraging their audience and turning them into a real business. The studio is our private members club with its first location in Hong Kong, built for founders and operators who want to be around people building at the same level. If you're building a brand and you want the systems and the playbooks to do so, you're in the right place. Check the link in bio to learn more. So, last but not least, thank you so much. Please subscribe because that will help us a ton in getting you a better guess and more wisdom and more value. We really appreciate it, and back to the show. I definitely find it interesting that you got a lobo offer. You're like F that, you dialed back in, made it bigger, and then went back out and then got what you wanted. I think that's really admirable.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

And just to uh also just for people I think will be useful because we're speaking about this over dinner last night as well. Be careful with your bankers. So Roman actually recommended the banker, and I told him it was the worst banker ever. Oh god. But it's not again, it's it was more of my fault of an inexperience of working with that person. Like a banker is like a real estate agent, right? Yeah, or he's like a broker, he's gonna like help you sell uh your stuff. The reason I say that is you know, they sell you the dream. Here's where you're we're gonna sell you for you. Then they you go out and you try to pitch your business, and in the end, the the offers that were coming in even then, three years later, were still low. And I was like, There's no I'm again, I'm not gonna sell the business at these multiples, like there's no point. I'll rather keep it. It's a good it's a good business. So we actually were the ones ended up finding the buyer. It was the buyer who actually kept reaching out to me every year and was like, Hey, do you want to sell the business? I'm like, no.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

They really wanted it.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, they really wanted it. It was strategic for them. So we kind of told no to everybody, even after the process. And then the buyer who was really wanted it kind of came back to us. They flew out, they're like, hey, let's do further due diligence and um see how we can make this work. Uh and they did. And we um they I think their offer went up by like 40%. Oh wow. Because again, you have to, if you have a good business and you believe in it and you're like you're you're fine keeping it going, you have more leverage in negotiations as well. Yeah, and for them it was an incredible purchase. Like, I wish I didn't sell. Like they the business, you know, it was I thought it was like, hey, hell, thank God, because we sold right before COVID. But as we know, like e-commerce just blew up in in COVID, so they ain't got a gold mine. Like they they the business the valuation increased, I think, five X over what they paid. Wow. So everyone, everyone was happy. It was a good purchase, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

One of the things that I really want to get into uh into with you today is the difference in starting a business today versus when you started out. So let me paint a picture. It's a f it's a familiar picture, which you obviously will know, but today is all about clawed maximization, productivity maximization, the anxiety of am I doing enough fast enough? You know, you go onto X and it's everyone just seems like they're better than you, faster than you, smarter than you. Also, the amount of information that's available from podcasts like this to LinkedIn posts to you know just news in general, it's just far more developed. It just feels like everyone's so active and successful. And I think being a founder today comes with a ton of anxiety. And for me, you know, I I run several brands myself, so I'm speaking from experience. Like I can't go to bed unless my Claude is doing something while I'm sleeping. That's how ridiculous this has become. You know, I would I we we were talking about this morning, like Anthony. Propic launched today or yesterday. Now you can have multiple cloud code sessions going at one time. And I sent that to my co-founder, one of my business partners, and he was like, yes, like amazing, like celebrating that we can now triple our productivity. So just coming to the point of the question, it seems like today it's all about efficiency maximization. And that comes with an insane amount of pressure, but also just anxiety. We're living in an incredibly intense digital world. And again, speaking from experience, when I leave my computer, I feel like this desire to get back to it. And I think that's messed up. And so I'm really particularly excited to chat with you because I feel that, or it seems like you've kind of broken away from that. You're still a business owner, you're still a co-founder, you're still an e-commerce person, you've exited, and yet you have this what seems super balanced life, not full of anxiety. So I'd love to get your perspective on all of that.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

The reality is everything that you said about is true. The safety that I've been able to earn is through the exit that we spoke about. You know, for me, and we're just, you know, speaking to somebody also here in your office as well, is that we all have a certain number that will make us feel more comfortable and safe to a certain degree. Because even in those years when I was cash flowing a few million a year, which is pretty much what even now is great, right? That's the gold standard uh that I've learned as well. It's not just about um even how much liquid you have, but it's even if you sell for a certain amount, it's about the cash flows that you're gonna still be coming in. Because otherwise you'll be able to spend through whatever that liquid you have fairly quickly. So it's always this chase that we may have of constantly being able to earn more. The question everyone has to ask themselves is like, what is your number? And of course, throughout the years, I guess, with inflation and also the social media inflation of expectations that we all have, that number is non-realistic for most people. Um, like even if we look at statistically, the odds of you getting that is probably gonna be really low. So you can still shoot for that because that's what has allowed me to achieve what I've achieved. That's what allowed others to achieve what they have achieved. And if you feel that desire that you need to do that, keep going. But I have to be honest, it's my exit that really uh alleviated that kind of rush to you know, keep make more, right? And of course I just communicated now. Hey, I I just you know, I'm finalizing my divorce, and now I'm half liquid as I used to be, and now it's I've hit a threshold below the number that I'm comfortable at. And now I'm like, this is why I'm here in Hong Kong, you know, with our mutual friend Roman, and and and understanding that I need to actually listening even to you guys or having dinner last night with other founders, is understanding that even me, I'm behind in regards to this productivity. And and the truth is we're in a bubble, you know. We're in a bubble of ex and and founders who are doing this. Most society, most even other uh business owners are not at it at all. The reason is like you're young, you're at it, uh, you're implementing these things, and it's also gonna be the reason why you will win. Right now, it is a special time that is happening where you will get left behind. So even myself, who's very chill, who's very lifestyle, I know that I also need to restructure my whole business, my whole team this year, and the way we do things. It is not business as normal a year, even for myself, who's very lifestyle driven. So, yes, it's a bit anxious driven as as a as a time for for everyone. This is why I really recommend to you need to build out mental health routines for yourself to help you not go totally crazy. And this is why Intelligent Change, you know, and the company that I've created, you know, over a decade ago and the tools that we create, they're there to help myself. And also it has helped millions of people around the world to have these kind of book ends of the day, you know, to start your day. You know, how you start your day and how you end your day are very important. And as you said, currently there's this feeling of you want to get on the phone right away or on your computer, you just it's nonstop, and you need to allow yourself to even even if it's five minutes a day, to just breathe and to just like get in touch uh with yourself, with the intentions that you have for the life that you want to live. And it's okay to, you know, I I've had periods in my life where you have to sprint, even though I'm known as a lifestyle for a work week guy. There's periods where you work 12-hour days and you kind of go hard because you know that it will pay off the dividends in the in the in the future. However, you have to be mindful because many people don't ever stop and their numbers way too high, and they're gonna never even see life and and and and build other more meaningful things in their life, like friendships, relationships, and be able to live life outside of just a screen. But it's I think most importantly, it is still understanding the season that you're in, and there for sure there's still the high pressure, even for me, to be in this growth season because it is a big shift that we're going through.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

There is a difference of energy also that I've seen in founders like today, if you're in your 20s versus 10 years ago, it's like radically different.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

In what way?

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Because of this productivity improvement. Like, again, speaking from experience, I'm 32. I started my first brand when I was 24. This is obviously pre-AI, pre-COVID. Like the work was more manual, and because of that, I felt that there was bookends. Like you start your day and you end your day, and there's like a hard stop and a hard cap. Much more traditional. I'm not saying like a nine to six, but certainly like more bookends. Like today, it's it kind of just bleeds. I don't know, it feels like it's just happening in perpetuity, cross-time zone. Everyone's much more global today. Again, just speaking from experience in the past, like it was like you have a team, you have an office, you know, everyone comes in at nine in the morning or whatever and leaves at six. Yeah, maybe you go home and do a little bit of work, but there's a start and then there's a stop. Today, someone's in Asia, someone's in the US, someone's in Europe, someone's wherever, and it's like there's notifications 24-7. There's much more means of communication between Slack, email, WhatsApp, WeChat. Like it's just gotten very overwhelming. Then you layer in the AI stuff of doing, I don't know, it just seems very unhealthy, is what I'm trying to say. And I I I told you this off camera, but I want to emulate what you're doing. Like you seem like you've got a system that works, and maybe we can just talk about the intelligent change system.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, I think the intelligent change system, as I said, I've created it for myself because I've dealt with all these things in my own life. Uh, meaning, you know, the the five-minute journal, which is like our hero product and really a category maker in the space of guided journals that we've created, you know, now reaching what's gonna be, you know, 15 years since the initial kind of idea, and then inspiring this whole category and generation really of journalers which didn't exist and and mental health. The five-minute journal is what I call a toothbrush for your mind. Most of us, one habit that we all as humans have learned is to be able to brush our teeth in the morning and night in most parts of the world, right? It's a nice habit that we do, and to help really our dental hygiene, they told us, hey, this is what we need to do. We don't have that for our mindset and our mind and our uh kind of well well-being. And this is why, for myself, this is my mental tool that I've created for myself to help me create first thing in the morning intention for the day. Because taking a few minutes in in in the morning before the day starts to have a little inspiration that we have a little quote that kind of starts the day, and then you go through these three little simple prompts, which is what am I grateful for right now? Because oftentimes the feeling that you're speaking about is not being enough. And as they say, recipe for you know, uh happiness is uh reality minus expectations equals how happy you are. But the expectations are now are so out of whack that you're not sitting still and being present, even appreciating the win that you had yesterday. So true. Or to be appreciative, like, hey, you know, I have a bed or I have a maybe a girlfriend or a partner next to you or your dog or uh the city that you live in. And to be able to just take the pause to reflect and appreciate what you have in life. You know, a quote that I love is that what you appreciate appreciates. So taking that moment to appreciate these things in your life will appreciate more. You will see more of them. And the signs behind this is like we all have this part of our brain called the reticulating activating system. And this is the reason why for you, right? You're you're hyper focused on all this clawed stuff, and it's all that you see because your brain is like this navigation tool that whatever you tell it to focus on, you will see more of that. Yeah, and what you're seeing right now is like clawed, anxiety, productivity. Yeah, and you need to give that focus to your brain about also say love, appreciation, uh, well-being. And that's why for myself, if you practice little thing for a long time, even if it's just a minute a day, of appreciating, it will compound over time where you will have that mindset. That's why people you know call me Mr. Gratitude and things like that, is because simply I just practice this little thing daily, and the reminder I give people why it's the two you have to have some sort of a toothbrush for your mind, is that it's not like let's say you've been you're 32 years old now, and you're like, hey, I brushed my teeth for the last 30 years, I'm good. Like, I think I've had enough of uh brushing my teeth. Because the truth is, whether you stop working out or you stop brushing your teeth, uh the state it will depreciate, right? The bacteria will grow and things will decay, you have to keep doing it. Yeah, so same thing whether it be the productivity, but also certain rituals to help you with yourself. This is why you know I just came from uh two weeks in Japan almost, and it was beautiful to see so much intentionality in the culture, and that's what we often forgive in the modern world is the importance and power of rituals, of daily rituals that we do in the morning, whether it be a simple prayer or a simple line of gratitude that reminds you of what you have and also help you create the intention for the day. I really believe that we're always constantly creating our reality. So you can be in an anxious reality or you can be in this kind of zen reality. And I'm sure you've seen founders on both sides. Um, I now know founders who are mega successful, right? We're talking hundreds of millions of billions, and they're cool as a cucumber, right? And you have a founder who's maybe just making a few million bucks or even less, and he's so anxious and he's he's trying to be super productive, but he's just overworking himself and actually not being efficient or smart. So I believe that there's different ways to work, and uh your mindset is a big proponent of it. And so other tool that I've created as well, and we launched this now, you know, over 10 years ago, is the productivity planner. And if you look at a lot of the stuff that's coming out now, it's like it's what uh we've talked about over a decade ago, which is really this simple idea of there's an endless task that we have in our notion, in our asana, whatever it may be. Yeah, but sometimes go in pen to paper or even in your uh kind of tasks of just saying, hey, there's only one thing that I have to do today. And if you just accomplish one most important task, not the task that you just keep you busy, that will actually compound again and allow you to get to your end result much faster.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

How do you build the filter filtration system to identify that?

SPEAKER_00 35:23

In regards to the priority of tasks?

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yeah, like that one task or that 2080 rule.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

We all know what we have to do, and this method is called like eat the frog. You know, you don't want to eat the frog, it's it's um, it's uncomfortable, but you know it's something that's gonna move you forward. And many times, including myself, we will do whatever is else, but do the thing that we need to do. So oftentimes I think that the thing that you're avoiding is most likely the thing that you have to do. Okay. So that's confusing.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

So that's the tell, the thing you don't want to do.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

No, hey, there's some things that you should you you should also design things in ways that you enjoy doing it that will create again that 80-20, the most kind of leverage in the tasks. However, I think that can be one of the tells for sure, is the things that you're avoiding, is oftentimes can be the biggest uh breakthroughs for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

I'm looking at you as like really a thought leader in this space of being a business person, but having the fortitude to build, you know, mental health and work-life balance. So I guess I'm curious. Do you like the direction? Like personally, do you I mean you see the direction that we're going as humanity? AI, it's gonna be robots soon. Like, do you like that direction? Or does that make you happy or sad or neither? Is it just you're adapting to it?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

I do. I'm so excited about uh this direction. And of course, this change and transformation as all big disruptions is messy. And most people don't like change, they don't want to change, they just want things to be the ch uh the same. Yeah. However, in the universe that we live, the only thing that is constant is change and evolution. So for me, this is probably one of the most exciting changes. And there was years, you know, where you're like, oh, kind of like the world feels the same. You know, we there's certain big disruptions that come to change culture and humanity. I remember when I first saw the first iPhone, like I knew that device is gonna change the world and change humanity. Or when social media came out, those were like big pivotal kind of shifts. We're so we're living through probably one of the biggest shifts in the modern world because we have now created new intelligence uh to help us um and be and extend our abilities of our human potential. And a lot of people, I believe, we've been stuck in doing drudgery and robotic work. And the era that I believe and the possibility that we can enter into now is to how do we double down on what it is to actually be human. Because for a long time, you don't have to do it anymore, people were just, you know, they're just human robots, whether that is for administrative tasks or for even now manufacturing tasks. And so in this next century, we have this ability to evolve to double down on things that makes us actually more human because we haven't actually been living human lives. That is a take I've not heard, and I really like that actually. Yeah, so and of course, uh, and in that time to help you transition to this thing, you do have to create some sort of systems and tools and be able to use AI as technology that helps enable you to create that lifestyle for yourself. So I'm very hopeful, I'm very optimistic uh for the future, and I believe we'll kind of figure it out and they will help uh people be more like people.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Did you experience on your own personal level like all these things of burnout, anxiety? That's why you've built these systems for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

I would say most importantly, beyond the burnout and anxiety, my belief around that is if you're not working on something that you genuinely love, that's how you will burn out. And this is you know something we didn't get into just as much, is is you know, the reason I exited Luxie Hair, our previous business, is that I wasn't aligned with it long term. Where now, say I work on intelligent change and I've been doing this business for you know over, I said 13 years, actual in-business, like launch the product. I love it. Like I don't have uh anxiety or burnout because to me this is a long-term business. As again, the the Japanese have this beautiful term, which is ikigai, yeah, which is doing what you love, uh, what you're good at, what you can get paid for, and what the world needs. And I found like I found my ikigai, I found my dharma, like and this right away alleviates a lot of anxiety and and burnout because I'm thinking decades now. I'm not trying to chase the next million, even if I have a down year, I'm like, it's fine because I'm playing in decades. And this is the thing that I want to really inspire other founders to do because right now, as you even yourself as well, we're just trying to get by, we're just trying to, you know, chase how do we get the most you know, money in the short term, how do we win. However, I think those are short-term games, and what I want to really remind people is that start playing long-term games, and long-term games that are connected to really your soul's intuition. I and and many of us are disconnected from our humanity and kind of our soul, which is here to create something of value in this physical realm and world. And the moment you connect to that, that's how I believe you can create something really on a breakthrough, or you can be working something on a team that you're really passionate about, and that's where I believe a lot of um just meaning, purpose comes into your life because you're really aligned and connected to your soul's mission. But I believe most of us are disconnected, we're not living that truth. And I want to encourage everybody to be able to connect to themselves, and in order to connect to yourself, you need to be able to sometimes disconnect and give yourself the time of the day, whether that's even five minutes a day, to also connect to nature. Me and our mutual friend Roman, you know, yesterday went out to close by here. I didn't know that Hong Kong is so lush and beautiful, and there's so much greenery here. And we go on this, you know, it's about 45 minutes away from here to this incredible hike and beach, and there's only four people there. And I told Roman, like, it's crazy that like there's only four, there's there's us and two other people here, yeah, and we're uh sipping coconuts, you know, on a Wednesday. And and he's like, Well, most people are working, right? And I get it. However, I believe that you can carve out time for yourself, um, even that it's in the evening, even maybe it's it's on a weekend sometime to kind of connect to yourself and start listening to what is important to you. And that's been my journey. My journey's been realizing I don't want to go watch football with the mates and drink beer because I don't care about whatever, right? Or I don't care maybe about tennis or some other stuff, or and be like, what do I really genuinely care about? And so for me, that's been my kind of path and journey towards finding myself where even today in the morning in Hong Kong I can step outside of my uh hotel, be on the boardwalk, doing my funky uh Mike Chang exercises, and and doing my Tony Robbins uh priming in the morning and sitting as people walk by and probably think this guy is crazy, but I don't care because I've learned to be in touch with myself and know that these things help me so much to be connected and to live an authentic, genuine life that I love and enjoy. So walk me through like what is your morning? Yeah, yeah. So my morning, you know, starts with it. Depends if I'm with my girlfriend seleet or not, right? But most of the time we also do it together as as a couple is you know, we wake up and you do the the the five minute journal. That is the First ritual, and the reason why you know we recommend to do this practice, and it could be the five-minute journal, it could be a different journaling practice. You know, sleep is this one thing that we really don't know what happens. You know, we go we all have to sleep. If we don't sleep, we die. And when we sleep, we go into this miraculous field where our body is totally disconnected and we get these nourishing downloads. It's it's a time of the day where we plug ourselves into the matrix or whatever and get our our kind of boost of energy, which is important. So it's like that's our uh time to do that. So when you wake up, you're just coming out of that state, and I really deeply believe that um the sleep state is deeply connected to your ability to create things in this world. It's like the connection. So the closest you can actually write out, or you can say manifest, right? But you're really just setting the intention in the morning and writing out these three things, right? Which is you get inspiration, little uh note of inspiration quote right away for the five-minute journal. Then first thing is I'm grateful for. What are some three things that you can appreciate? So, right away, you're starting your day with what am I appreciating in life? I'm already starting a day with thank you. Before I even did anything. Yeah. And then the second question is, what would make today great? Or if you want it to be more empowering, what will I do today to make today great? You're you're starting the day from the position of something great is gonna happen today. Again, you're setting the intention, you're creating the future of what am I gonna look forward to? Because our brain evolutionary has been designed for negativity bias. Usually you wake up, you're like, this fire, I have to do this, oh, this is gonna happen, oh, I'm dreading this. You're starting from reaction, not from intention and through offense versus defense. Yes, offense versus defense. So, this is why uh the five-minute journal has really you know been helpful to me and millions of people around the world, is because people realize when I actually take the time to do this, my day feels different, my life is different. And me myself, I've been also even as a creator on and off with the five-minute journal. Like I've there have been months where I don't do it. I'm like, ah, whatever, I'm good. Yeah, I've been doing it for 10 years, I'm the expert, I don't need to do it. Yeah, and then when you slowly realize, like, hey, actually, my days are not as good as when I set that intention and creation. And then the last thing in the morning is uh your affirmation. So just again, your daily affirmation, this your I am statement of how are you showing up? How do you how are you gonna be in the world? So today, for example, uh, and one affirmation that I use daily is like I'm healthy, strong, and energetic. So that reminds me that hey, if I'm gonna be eating, I should be maybe going towards healthy food. And I'm energetic, I'm I'm bringing certain energy to my interactions with other people and strong, like hey, that I will actually follow through and do my workout in the morning. So those reminders are so important to us. And so then after the five-minute journal, you hop in the shower. I like I'm a morning showering person, I love to do that. Obviously, brush my teeth as well, another another kind of habit there. And I love to, especially, you know, I'm in London, so the weather's not always nice, but even wherever I am in the world, I try to get outside. Have you checked your phone at all? Sometimes. I'll still I'm still human. Like I can sometimes still check my little WhatsApp message, see if like somebody messaged me if it's something like that. But I will say, in ideal state, I I don't. Ideally, no. Ideally, of course, no, because then again, you're reactive, you're letting the world come in.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

It's already put in the seed in your brain of something else that you have to do.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Exactly. So then, even though say today when I'm traveling, I like to be close to green space. You know, I'm staying in a nice hotel here by the waterfront that you guys have, and uh the dark side, you guys call it. Yeah, and I went outs uh outside this morning, and um I do, you know, I picked up from a few creators, but mostly through Mike Chang. He has this thing called as well, like Flow60. And it's basically just also like some uh Chinese movements. You know, you do just uh I can try to link it through, but you just wave your arms a bit, hit yourself a bit, do some breathing. Yeah, and I I was even here also in in Hong Kong, and there was this uh we're doing a hike, and this lady was doing the movements. Yeah, and like and I'm like, she's you know, she's my family, you know. We kind of do the same things. So I do some movements, I'll uh and I'll do some stretches, I do like a little yoga routine, and it's all very quick. I'm all 80-20. So my um daily workout and ritual is I do it first thing in the morning and I do probably you know seven minutes of like yoga and stretches, and then I do a seven-minute workout. Oh, yeah, and that's it. And if you you know, if people most look at me without a shirt, I'm pretty like fit. You're okay, yeah. Like I'm I'm not like buff, but yeah, you're good. But especially if I do this in um barefoot in the garden somewhere that like with the sunshine, that just lights me up like crazy. Like 20 minutes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 20 minutes. So, in total, probably with with the five-minute journal and everything else, it's probably 30 minutes. But taking this time every day grounds me so much, and especially with given my lifestyle where I travel a lot, I realized I need this. And the reason where most of us feel very disconnected because we just we're reactive, we just rush into things, we start doing things, we don't even stretch our body, we don't breathe, we're not allowing ourselves to, you know, if you look at animals that are out there, when they wake up, they stretch, they move, they shake themselves off. Yeah, they take a second, they have some sort of kind of ritual there. And I believe we're still animals, and we we have forgotten that, and we have to uh do that. And especially when I lived a more nomadic lifestyle, uh, when I was traveling a lot, I saw how it's so damaging to the to your mental health to not have something grounding that you do daily. If constantly your day is changing and you're in a different place and you're not you don't feel a sense of of home or even also the tasks that you do, it will sh just shake you. And you want to be unshakable in a way through a routine that you do daily. And the way even people can start sometimes too is they say, There's this famous book by this uh military guy, make your bed each morning, and it can change your life. Why is that? Because you just know even if your day goes horribly, you've done one thing, you know what I mean? Like, so for me, it's like it's the five-minute journal and these kind of things, and that's really kind of more and more morning routine. And then, you know, when I'm in London, I go drop off my daughter at school and I I go to the office.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

That's kind of my life. I think it's very interesting, first of all, because it sounds so complicated, but it's like 20 minutes, like you said, 30 minutes. So, first of all, I think that's absolutely amazing. I've gotten to this horrible habit where I wake up and go, like, I literally like where I'm like, like, you know? I think it's most of the people. I think and my wife kills me for it. I mean, we're actually I'm I'm getting better because she's now like basically literally asked me. It's it that's again why I was so excited to talk to you. Like, wake up, go outside, make a coffee, go on the balcony, get some sun, yeah, and then pick up your phone. Yeah. Just a little tweak. Like it's a five-minute difference.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Yeah, even if you look outside the window, I think it's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

So I'm I'm with you. I think it's amazing. I one thing I also want to chat through is like you've taken this and then you've turned it also into a business, which I love. Walk me through that because you know, you've taken this concept five-minute journal, you've physically turned it into a product, it's still a website. Like I was on your website last night. Like, you go, you can still press add to car, like it's still a business. Yeah, yeah. It's still an e-commerce business, but it's vastly different than selling hair extensions. Is running the business the same sort of like vibe to you? I mean, again, you know, it's e-commerce, there's conversion rate, there's sales, there's EBITA, like, but it's it's a totally different concept. How are you looking at that? Because I I know you said you're thinking in decades, you've got the cushion, I know you're not in a rush. I get that, but nonetheless, it's still a business, but it's something radically different.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

It's still a business. Um, so I still have to think about the same things you think about, whether that is implementing Clot or AI and restructuring the business, and how do we uh convert better? How do we have a better funnel? How do we have better ad creatives? It's the same stuff, and it's also feeling of like, hey, it's it's it's never enough to to a certain degree. I don't think that changes. The thing that I want to encourage a lot of founders is to generally number one, like my our our company value and my value is deliver value. So any business you have to be looking at from a place of how am I delivering value to other people, and this has helped me so much to become a better founder and entrepreneur because initially many people, including myself, start in business for selfish reasons. You're like, I'm broke, I want to have money, I want to have a lifestyle, so give me, give me, give me. In reality, yeah, it's more from a taking uh stance. In reality, coming from a place of how do we serve people, how do we serve our customers, how do we make the wor uh the world better, how do we make the product better to give more value to people instead of trying to how do we squeeze more out of people? That's how you're able to play also the long-term game. The reason why you know I've been able to have businesses that have been around in the D2C space for more than a decade and stable and growing, although maybe not super fast but steady, is because of this. You're giving. It's giving, and it's actually looking after people, not trying to trick people or do uh short-term games again, playing long-term games. So with the business, um, I at the same time, we still have to follow these things, and and I can learn so much from you know yourself or other people in your kind of studio by implementing the things that you guys are doing as well. So I know that our business can be you know at least 10x the size easily in the next kind of three to five years if I just follow through on doing also a lot of these kind of tactics that other founders are doing or finding out or implementing certain tools. So it still remains the same as a business. However, the reason I wanted to remind kind of everyone the importance of not losing sight of what you're there for, because sometimes I myself as well, you know, speak to other founders or see these X threads and reels, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm so behind, and I need to make more. And then again, this is where through those daily practice and rituals or big one, bigger ones, which because we have we can speak into all the other products that we have, you remind yourself what is important to you in your life, and to also answer another question kind of you asked before about how do I do it. I often say I leave a lot of money on the table. You know, I'm not trying to get every dollar, you know, try to make as much money as possible, and I'm okay with it. I know I'm I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. It's huge in a good way. Yeah, so and the reason I do that is because I value the intangibles in my life.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Many people value the tangibles, you know, that car, your house, whatever things you may have, but the intangibles of like having a peace of mind and waking up without being reactive, to me, that's worth a billion dollars. I could not do more, you know, and like for example, I would never like God bless Elon Musk for pushing humanity forward, but I would never trade my life with him, you know, like like that's a fun stressful life. And hey, some people want to live like that and do that, let them do that. And that's why, most importantly, you have to listen to yourself and your desires of what is pushing you forward. And some people have that stamina, that drive, that aggressiveness to really conquer markets and to build, and others can still do well, and that's what I want to communicate to to people is that you can still do well. You know, you can still have a very good life, and most importantly, a life that is led by your design with that intention of how you want to live versus just how other people like you may be maybe living. So you have to examine yourself, and this is what intelligent change is. Like the we have another tool called the Life Designer, and I've created that tool again to help people, including myself, to sit with yourself and go through the process of prompting yourself to engineer that the life that you want. You know, we live right now in a time where we as humans are prompting AI and we're telling it kind of what to do and like giving the answers, but rarely are we prompting ourselves and sitting with ourselves without being prompted by other things, right? By actually prompting on the important questions of like what makes me happy? Do I like where I live? You know, do I like my friends? What are my values? Without stimulus, actually sitting with yourself, and it's very uncomfortable and it's and and it seems like it's a waste of time. However, it's one of the most meaningful things that you can do to help shape and create your future because most people just uh you know, there's this on online, right? They see like NPCs. That's why most people are non kind of playing characters because they're not living by design, they're not living by intention. The way you become playing actually the game is you have to be become aware of life and the game that we're playing, and you do that with actually doing these practices. And what I've learned from the like this, even the super successful people who are not just financially successful but life successful, they're intentional with their life. They don't just, you know, and time is the most precious asset that exists.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

It's funny because I think you've hit the nail on the head in like so I mean, in so many ways. You've also said some things that have kind of blown my mind. Like, very rarely do we prompt ourselves. I don't know if you intended for the timing, it you obviously didn't, but just like this like intersection of humanity and AI and productivity and robotics and what's happening in our generations that are following ours. You've created this not only something you love, something you're passionate about, but also a business around it. Like a like we said, it's still a business, you can still buy the products. There's an insane amount of tailwind of people like me who are experiencing this firsthand, the burnout, the anxiety, my wife being like, you need to slow down, you know, the picking up the phone in the morning, and just like you know, I think another spiral that we're we all, I say like from the POV of like an e-comm entrepreneur, is you see you have an idea or you see an idea on an X, and then you run at it, two days pass, like you're vibe coding something, and then all of a sudden you look up and you're like two days have passed, and I wasted two days because I saw someone who I don't know say something with very little validation. It was just an idea you got inspired and you just did it. So I think that's insane. And so I think the main thing that you've created is this like mindset of intention, which it's funny because like I said, it's like you you didn't intend for the timing, but the timing is brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Yeah, and that's why to your question before about the current technology, the time that we're living in. I'm so excited. Yeah. Because as we said, people are afraid of change, and change is not something that we want, even though that may change maybe for the better, but we still fear it because it's the unknown. You know, I've named this company Intelligent Change 15 years ago. Brilliant. And this is what we're here to do is to help people navigate change in an intelligent way, and that's what we as humans are capable of using our intelligence to navigate change. And so I'm excited for this movement because the movement, as well as it's not just, let's say, myself. I believe that many other founders, uh, which are already starting uh to do so as well, to help us navigate this change. And there's the biggest market that I believe will open up is also in real world, you know, building community as you're doing here with your studio, connecting other people in different ways. Like I'm an investor in Othership, for example. And I love what Othership as a business has created by through saunas and community bringing people together. And there's gonna be so many different ways. That's what people want. Yeah, yeah, because we all as well say we all just actually want to be human, but now we're actually living through you know a loneliness epidemic and really this uh anxious world of battling like what is our identity and what's the meaning and purpose of life after all this, after that you're gonna strip away your title, it won't matter. Who are you? And who you are is you're a human, and it's the most beautiful thing of all, and it's one of the most intelligent creatures ever created, and it's more way to experience life. My understanding through my journey of life is all of our purpose is here, is not to create AI, is not to go to the create next time. You know, it's none of this, yeah. It's just to experience life. And life has so many beautiful experiences if you allow it to do. One of it can be, you know, being married and building a family and or being part of the community. And many of us have forgotten that. So this is gonna be a renaissance to actually getting back to humanity. I've learned a lot. Thank you, Alex. Thank you, appreciate it, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Dude, what you're doing is amazing. I really believe that. Like you've turned it. The timing is unreal, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

And I know you didn't intend for it, but the timing of all of this I think is so brilliant. Yeah, that's why I gotta double down. You gotta double down. And it's it's just funny because it's like ironic, because it is a business, but it's so much more than that. Like, it's actually like a movement of um self-identification in so many ways. Like, I I genuinely am just talking to you. I'm like clocked like six things, sixty things that I need to like do better of. Yeah, I just feel like the time flies so fast when you're locked in.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Especially when you do you do you have children yet?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

My wife is pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:03

Oh, okay. So I don't know if that's public knowledge. Yeah, congratulations. So the craziest thing you'll see with having a child, like the child becomes this ultimate measure of time. You know, like my daughter, like, so I was you know, my daughter is now nine, and so we're in Japan together as well for some time. And I'm like, that's that's almost a decade of time. You have like a full grown kind of human, and like a decade passed. I remember like it was just yesterday. Like you'll remember also this time, and you're kind of entering, I always compare it to like a startup, you know, like having kids like you're you're like you're back in startup plan, and like zero to one, you're like, what the fuck is going on? You're just trying to understand how to make this work, and then by year you know, five, especially, you're like, Oh, this I got this, it's it's it's good. How old are you? I'm 38. Man, I feel like you've done a lot at such a young age. Well, I think starting a young tree, even like you, like I started around 23, 24, but of course started before then. But it's yeah, it's gonna be super exciting. And I and children don't let this pass you by, right? This this moment as well of be able to be present and and and and see her or him, you know, uh grow. So it's it's it's wonderful. So it's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

Alex, thanks a lot, man. Really appreciate it. Glad you came by, honestly.