First Steps to Financial Independence: Where to Start When You're Overwhelmed with Nik Johnson | 097

Feeling stuck and overwhelmed with your finances and not sure where to begin? You are not alone. In this episode of the Extreme Personal Finance Show, Chris sits down with Nik Johnson, host of Everyday Money Heroes, to break down exactly what to do when you are ready to take control of your money but have no idea where to start.

Nik has one of the most real stories in the FIRE community. He and his wife emptied their 401ks to start a business, lost it all, and rebuilt from less than zero over 18 years to reach early retirement at 49. He knows firsthand that financial mistakes are not the end of the road.

In this episode you will learn:

• Why "more money" does not solve a bad money habit
• The spending audit Nik recommends as the very first step
• How to find money you did not know you had by auditing subscriptions and auto payments
• How Nik cut his Comcast bill from over $200 to $75 a month with one phone call
• Why pen and paper beats budgeting apps when you are just getting started
• How to stay motivated through the "boring middle" of your financial journey
• Why knowing your WHY is the secret to not giving up
• What Nik told his son when the market dropped and he wanted to sell everything
• Why it is never too late to start, even in your 40s or 50s
• How community can be the difference between finishing and quitting
• The shocking correlation between your credit score neighborhood and your life expectancy

Nik also runs free quarterly financial literacy workshops in the Jacksonville, Florida area and is passionate about bringing the FIRE message to communities that have never heard it.

Contact Chris:

https://heavymetal.money

https://www.facebook.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://x.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://www.instagram.com/chrisluger

https://www.tiktok.com/@heavymetalmoney

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Resources and Links:

https://everydaymoneyheroes.com

https://www.youtube.com/@Everyday-Money-Heroes

FrdnlyTv

https://try.frndlytv.com

https://campfi.org

Operation Hope

https://operationhope.org

https://choosefi.com/groups

Stacking Benjamins - Twin Cities

https://www.facebook.com/groups/stackingbenjaminstwincities

F.I.R.E. For Dummies

by Jackie Cummings Koski

https://a.co/d/0fZ1YOAn

Once Upon a FI

https://www.onceuponafi.com

Contact Chris:
https://heavymetal.money

https://www.instagram.com/heavy_metal_money/

https://www.youtube.com/@heavymetalmoney

https://www.facebook.com/chrisluger

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Your first attempt at financial independence with Nick Johnson this week on the Extreme Personal Finance Real. Hey everyone, my guest this week is Nick Johnson. He's the host of Everyday Money Heroes, a podcast and YouTube channel dedicated to sharing real stories of everyday people achieving financial independence. You may have heard Nick on CBS News Sunday morning about Bigger Pockets Money or even giving talks at Camp Fi. He's a marriage and relationship coach and community builder, where he also runs free financial literacy workshops in the Jacksonville, Florida area. And I'm super excited to bring Nick to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Nick, how's it going, man? Man, it's going great, Chris. It's good to see you again, man. I I mean, I think uh we've had the good fortune probably since September. We've seen each other like three times, man. That's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Right, right. That's great. That's so awesome. That's so awesome. And I want to jump right to the meat here because I know that you and I were talking about how you know if someone is just starting their financial journey, right? They've had enough is enough. I gotta start doing this. And we gotta figure out like where to start. And it is kind of overwhelming, right? There's so many resources out there, there's so many things, like what should I focus on? I guess before we start um talking about that, I want to know kind of your starting point first, though. Let's actually first talk about before you kind of had it figured out like what what was your biggest like mental barrier or your first step to break through um on your own financial journey?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Wow, what was my first step? You know, I I had a good fortune, Chris. First of all, thanks, you know, I I'm I'm extremely late to be here. As far as my my first steps, I had the good fortune of being a money nerd from birth, but I just didn't know what it was. And so I remember as a kid, I would so it I had two sisters and a brother, and we were all very different. Um, I know like if I got money from my mom, I held onto it. I mean, I held it tight. And I remember some of my siblings would come to me and ask me for money. And I remember that particular point, even back then, at probably like eight years old, I understood that that was a loan and that loans required interest. And so literally, I didn't know what I was doing then was illegal. I was a loan shark. But um, I was like, I can give you two dollars, but she got even like two dollars and twenty cents or something. I was like, I can't just give you away like that. And so literally, even back then, I understood kind of some of the loose concepts around money. I remember looking at the business uh section in the newspaper and seeing the tickers and knowing that, hey, I was like, I know what I got something to do with money, just really trying to figure out what it was. So I always kind of had this curiosity around money, and as I got older, that curiosity just grew and grew until I actually realized that what I was interested in was not just money, but personal finance. And so once I understood that, you know, it was about personal finance, that I could increase my knowledge and the more I learned, the better situation I was in. I had the good fortune of doing that. Now, granted, my parents didn't hold know a whole lot about it. My parents just told me about you know working hard and trying to be a you know a man of my word. And that's really the only financial really insights that they had to give me. And so that's really the way it went. So I had the good fortune of just kind of being that kind of person from the from the giddy up. Then as I got older, um, I was able to just kind of consume more and more until I got to the point where, like I said, I realized what I was interested in was personal finance and how ultimately um some years down the road, it even became a situation where I realized it was a community of people that was like this. And then once I learned about the community, a lot of the stuff kind of came together. And I was like, man, I was like, okay, I'm good to go. But kind of I had the the good fortune of kind of from the beginning understanding that, hey, you know what, I need to work hard, um, save, and live live below my means, which is extremely kind of foundational for a lot of us to get on the right track.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Sure, sure. Absolutely. And just to let people know, I mean, you've you've definitely been on the right track because you reached Phi um at what 49, right? You left work, you retired, or about eight years?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, you know, I was kind of eager to try to make it happen like right before my 49th birthday. So it was like it was like 48 years, 363 days. I love it. I love it. So it was really close. But you know, I had some I had some mistakes along the way, uh, Chris. I mean, um I I remember um man, like 20-ish years ago, what was it, like 2003? Um, I left my corporate job and like became an entrepreneur. And like I like, like all my money, like all my money, all my wife's money, um, we um we pulled it out of our 401ks and put into this business and it went belly up. Yeah, so we went through all of it. So um we started off in like 2000, we got married. Um we were still because I knew, you know, like I said, a lot of the personal finance stuff, so I knew the importance of us, you know, investing and you know, doing at least the match on 401ks and stuff like that. So we did all that when we first got married, but then I was like, hey, you know, I was like, I'm not, we're not gonna make it doing this W-2 stuff. And so we decided to start our own business, and the only real um cash we had access to was in our 401ks. And so we went, we pulled it out, hit uh got those early withdrawal penalties, unfortunately, um, put it all in there, and it didn't work out. And so literally we ended up having to do a hard reset in uh 2005. And so we went from 2005 of basically being uh back pretty much back to really less than zero, because we had some mortgages and some stuff like that, until fast forward uh so that was in 2005. My wife um retired early in 2023, and I did it in 24. And so, really like 18-ish years, uh, we were able to go from hey, you know what, uh making a mistake to being able to course correct and getting where uh we need to get to. So even if you do make a mistake, you could definitely uh turn yourself around and get where you want to get to.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah, well, and that's great, man. I mean, I love that to really show that it you know, people can turn that turn that ship around, right? I mean it's like you you do teach these financial workshops and you talk to a lot of people that are like overwhelmed with their finances, they don't really know where to begin. Like, what does it actually look like? Like when someone comes to you and like what are they usually saying? Like what's underneath it? Like where I guess you know, what's one of the things that you see most often of where they're just kind of over their skis? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Um what's what's that thing that you see most often? Well, one of the things that most individuals think that, okay, that they have a money problem. If I just got more money, it will solve all my problems. Well, doesn't it? Nick, doesn't it? You know, that's what some people would think. But you know, honestly, I tell people all the time I personally know of people who basically grossed almost a million dollars a year and were still in financial ruins. Oh my gosh. More money ain't the answer. You know, we really have to change the way that we approach uh our approach to money. So I'll tell people, hey, okay, well, first of all, before we say that money is not, you know, the answer. Now I won't say that money doesn't answer a whole lot of credit, doesn't solve a whole lot of problems, because it does. But the thing is that just more money does not help if we have bad financial habits. So, first of all, uh, you know, from my my times in corporate America, I used to always hear, you know, what gets measured gets managed. We need to know where your money is going. And so one of the first things I tell people to do, hey, you know, you need to do a spending audit. You know, where's your money going? And so I tell them, hey, you know, collect, you know, a good three months of, you know, whether it's Cash App, Venmo, credit card statements, PayPal, all that stuff, you know, you need to collect that uh and look at where you're spending your money. Because oftentimes, you know, you can uh see a lot of um fat that can be trimmed just by going there and seeing how much it is costs. Oftentimes people don't think that, hey, you know what, I'm spending, you know, a hundred bucks a week on coffee. They might not even think that. You know, so let's go through and pull that stuff out and actually look at it. Because um, if we go ahead and actually um itemize where you spend is going, we you have more money than you think you have, and then we can actually take that additional money and take it and put it other places. So that's one of the first things I tell people to do.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Right on. Yeah, because most of the time um people often think, well, I don't spend that much money until you until you measure it, like you said, over a few months, and you're like, Well, yeah, those frequent ships trips to Starbucks, they're they're adding up, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yeah, it does. You know, and I'm not, you know, I I don't think that people sh um shouldn't reward themselves every night, but when you are kind of trying to get the fundamentals down, you really need to know where your money is going. And so that's extremely important, and people don't really realize where it's going. So that is the first thing you have to do because it sets the um it really sets up the baseline for everything else that you need to do because in order to have a um an emergency fund that meets, you know, three, six months of your spending, well, you need to know how much you're spending. You know, you can't be like, oh, I got an emergency fund, that's a thousand dollars. I'm not gonna say that having a thousand dollar emergency fund is a bad thing, but the thing is we want our emergency fund to be able to sustain us for a certain amount of time. So that's why we need to know how much we're spending. So that's why I tell people on the front end that's what you gotta do. Right on. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Do you think, you know, I uh and I've talked to several people that um you know they think that they've waited too long, right? That's that's kind of the thing. So like um, have you like you know, they think that that ship is already sailed? Um and I'm sure if you've talked to people in their forties or their fifties, um d when they think it's generally like too late to start, um what do you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

How can you help them? Uh one of the things, Chris, that I try to do is that you know, when you're in the fire community or you share the concept of fire to people, um, they say, well, you know, I hit a financial independence retire early, but it's like I'm like backside of 40, you know, early 50s. Ain't no early retirement with me. And so what I tell people all the time is try to focus on the FI and not necessarily the RE. So how can we put ourselves in a better situation so that even if you don't get the opportunity to retire early, maybe you're able to retire at a traditional retirement age. Because if you start in you know the backside of 40 or even your early 50s, you can cover a lot of ground in 10, 15 years. You really can. So at that particular point, you know, when you get to you know 62, 63, 65, you might be like, hey, you know what? Um I might not have enough money to retire early, but I'm in a situation where now I can retire now. And so that's what I really tell people. Don't get dismayed. And guess what? Even if you don't get to the point of 65 where you can retire early, you are going to be in a much better situation than you would have been if you didn't take any action at all. And so that's what's really important. You know, Chris, I tell people in my workshops that um at the end of the day, um, you can either choose to check bags at Walmart or check bags at the airport. The choice is yours. You know, I love that. And you know, I haven't met anybody who really and not to poo-poo people who have to do that, because I know we have to do what we have to do to survive. But at the end of the day, if you have to check bags, I'm rather check bags to the airport than check bags at Walmart. And so the choice is yours. Yeah, I love that, man.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So I mean if so, if if somebody um you know looks at uh their spending, right, they really figure that out, they know where their money's going, they know where money's being, you know, they're leaking money in in their budget, and then they try to get an emergency fund set up. But then there's like so many things out there. I mean, there's like a million finance apps now, there's a million finance books. It seems like there's a new finance book like every month now. But then there's like podcasts like me and you um YouTube channels, all the things. There's so much information. I guess if somebody feels like paralyzed, like what's that next step then, right? Like after they kind of, okay, I know what I'm spending, but now I want to start taking control of my finances.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Oh man, that is a great question, Chris. Okay, so now let's say, for instance, you've gone through the activity of getting that three months worth of spending together, you look at it. Well, what I suggest people to do after that is once you do that, um, once you have it all together, look at what you're looking at. First of all, uh, do you have any auto payments for any services that you're not using? And part of the reason why I'm going to give a few things here, cause first of all, it's like, okay, um, just by doing this audit, you can actually find money that you didn't know that you had. So, first of all, you know, do you still have no that um that gym membership that you forgot you even had? Um, do you pick, you know, it's real easy, like streaming services. You go, you sign up for a streaming service, you're not using it and you forgot. And so, really go through there, look for stuff that's auto payments that are being taken out. So that's right there, that's money you're taking control of it right there. So that's one of the things that I suggest people to do. Um also, and it by any time, if I'm saying these things too fast, you want to jump in, please feel free to, Chris. Um, another thing I ask people to do, okay, if you find auto payments for services you aren't using, how about any services that you rarely use? You know, okay, you might use it every now and then, but I mean, is what you're paying, whether it's$9.99,$19.99 a month, are you really getting the use out of it that you um should be getting? I know a lot of times people get caught up with audible. Like, you know, hey, you know, I listen to an audiobook every now and then. But I tell people, like, okay, well, that's cool, but do you know that you can get a whole lot of audiobooks for free from the library? Right. You know, and is it really worth, you know, having audible when there is a free option, you know? Um, also, I tell people, go through when you do that expense audit. Are there any things that you can negotiate? You know, um, I know for myself, um, this is the exercise I have to do quite often because once you have gotten to the point where you have that foundation and you have a little more of a gap in between the money that comes in and the money that goes out, you don't always have to be so strict. But at the same time, it's still an exercise I try to do at least once a year, look at my spending. And so what happens is that I went through and I noticed I was spending way too much money for my my cable, my internet, and my phone. And I was like, first of all, I was like, I don't even use a house phone. I was like, but I'm still paying for it. Um I was like, I've noticed for my cable that usually all I really look at is like YouTube, Netflix. That's really it. Uh maybe some sports. And then on top of that, I was like, you know what? Um, I need to only really need internet because I'm fine for everything else. So I called um my um provider here in Jacksonville, is Comcast. So I called them, and I think at that point I was paying like two and some change. Uh by the time I got off the phone, I had the service that I only needed, which was internet. I had a faster speed, and I was only paying$75 a month, and I locked them in for five years. Wow. That's great. Yeah, and that was it. And I mean, literally all I had to do, I picked up the phone and um I negotiated. So you'll be surprised the number of things that you can actually get on the phone and negotiate, you know. Um, and so that's what I did. So I struck I advised people, hey, you know, even if it's a service that you knew need, go through and try and negotiate. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, there was uh when I left work, um, again, you know, I I often worked from home when I wasn't traveling, and I had gigabit, you know, service to my house, and that service was like 110 bucks a month. And well now I wasn't uh I wasn't doing it for work anymore. And so I called them and I'm like, hey, you know what, is there any way that you can, you know, just do you have like a special or something like that? And they did. They dropped it down to like 85 bucks a month or 86 bucks a month. Yeah. So all I had to do was ask. Save me 25 bucks a month, you know what I mean? Yeah. And uh and like you said, like looking for those things that like um the auto payments that you may have forgotten about, I absolutely just recently did that. I had one where I actually had to look it up because uh I happen to be looking at my at my uh credit card statement. I saw this thing called like you know, Pantheon Media or whatever, and I'm like, I don't even know what it is. It was like six dollars. I looked, it was like the last four months on my credit card statement. I'm like, what is that? I had to like do some internet sleuth thing and the Googling, and I'm like, oh, that was this like horror movie TV service that I subscribed to, you know, with a free month back in October for Halloween. Oh and I just never canceled it, you know what I mean? So um, yeah, that's exactly I I love that advice.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

That's super rad. Yeah, well, you know, one of the things I I mean, I'm one to do a free trial, but one of the things I try to do, as soon as I do a free trial, I go to my calendar and I say, okay, I like, you know, make a reminder say, okay, cancel this. Like, for instance, I have gotten into sappy Hallmark Christmas movies. You and Doug Cunnington, holy mackerel! Yeah, weak matter fact, me and him talked about it, man. That's awesome. I didn't know this, like a couple years ago, I was sick with matter of fact, I had COVID, I remember. And I was like forced to stay in the bed because I was so sick. And my wife was like, Well, since you can't go anywhere, why don't we watch the movies? Um, I started liking it. I was like, man, this is pretty cool. So what happened is that once we went and kind of stripped everything from our cable, we didn't have it. And so it was this uh streaming service called Friendly, and Friendly actually included like the Hallmark channel in it. It was like$6.99 for like three months or something like that. So I was like, okay, I only need it really from uh like after Thanksgiving to like Christmas, and I'm good. And so I signed up for it. But what I did is that I put a reminder on my calendar after I did. I was like, okay, I was like 90 days, I need to cancel it. So I constantly have reminders coming up, and I was like, okay, I just pull up my phone and cancel it. Just those kind of little reminders there to try to keep me on board. But yeah, uh, me and uh Doug did talk about the Sappy movies. That's funny. That is so funny. Yeah, man, you did that. And um one other thing, Chris, I know you did ask about was like tools, right? You know, there's a lot of tools out there. Like, you know, once you've gone through, you've looked at everything. And what I this is what I suggest to people. I mean, the stuff like the monarchs and the uh monarch money and you you need a budget, those are good things. But what I kind of suggest people, at least on the front end, you know, just really get in there and old school it, you know, pen, paper, you know, worksheets, you know, uh spreadsheets, do that stuff at the beginning. You know, then once you get that, you know, because it's like that muscle memory, for you to have to sit down and write it out or to sit there and type it out, it really allows you to really um ingest it. You know, once you kind of you know hook up the automations to it, it's going there and you can look at the spreadsheets and that's good. But at least like in the beginning of this spending audit, I'm like, hey, you know, no, just do it no old-fashioned, you know, pen and paper or spreadsheets, do it that way. Then once you get a good idea of it, then go and grab you know the tools, whether it's a monarch or or you need a budget or something like that. There are, like you said, a lot of tools out there for it. Um, me, I'm so old school, I still like to do my worksheets. I got worksheets that go back, oh man, um probably at least 20 years, I think. Really? Of like, yeah, I got budgets that go. That's it got to the point where I had to like create new workbooks because I had too many sheets in my workbooks. And I had to like pull up new workbooks, man. So yeah, so it's um it was that way, but I and that's the way I started doing it, so it just happened to me. Um, and I'm not gonna say that, you know, you can't leverage the tools, but just kind of starting off, definitely try to do that.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Sure. Yeah, I remember when I first started my journey back in like 20 fifth twenty sixteen, just just after my divorce, um, that's how I started. You know, I didn't have any tool, I didn't know what tools were available, and I just used a notebook and I started writing stuff down and figuring out like where is all this money going. And to your point, that's where I found things like dish network and I mean things that I was paying for that I was not using. And I was just writing it down. And there is just something, there's some sort of connection, some sort of neurological connection. When you're writing it down, it's just it sticks in your head and you it becomes more real than just looking at a cell in a spreadsheet, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah, no, it's true. And it actually, uh Chris, research does show that um when you actually write something by hand, you know, it's kind of the mind-body connection, and it's actually enhanced when you do that versus like putting stuff on, you know, doing it through your phone or doing it in a spreadsheet. So um, I'm absolutely with you. I I retain stuff better that way.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Right on. Well, so if those people then, you know, let's say they are starting, right? They're they're they're tracking their spending, they're using a tool. Starting it is one thing, right, Nick? But sticking to it is something entirely separate, right? So what do you what do you think separates those people that can follow through and then the ones that that get fired up for like a couple weeks and then they just fall back to their old habits? Like, how can we make sure we stick to it?

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I I guess really ultimately the biggest thing I tell people is like, you gotta know why you're doing this. Oh and just kind of be mindful of why you're doing it, you know, because it's really easy when you're on this journey, Chris, and you know, this isn't something that's fast, it's not immediate graphication. So it's it's gonna take us a number of years to get there. And so you can get started, and then you can become, you know, we have a term in the community called, you know, the messy, the messy middle or the boring middle. And it it does happen, but the thing is that okay, stay, stay committed. I tell people all the time, trust the process. And when you're doing it, you know, give yourself a little rewards along the way. But at the same time, understand that, you know, you have you ultimately have a vision and something that you're trying to achieve. So hang in there, uh, do it. You you you might get weak one day and say, hey, you know what? I'm just gonna get myself something to treat myself something. Like, okay, you know, one time situation is okay, but we don't want to make this become a series of situations where you're repeatedly, you know, uh treating yourself over and over again. And you'll know, and it's just getting out of that traction at the beginning that's hard. You know, I, Chris, um, I My oldest son, um, I have been talking to him for quite a while about, hey man, I like invest, you know, live below your means. And at one point, I felt like I was sending one ear and it was coming out the other. And I was like, okay, I was like, you see someone who's modeling the behavior. So I don't know why you won't do it, but everybody's different, right? And then ultimately, one day, I think he got sick and tired of his job. He's like, you know what? He's like, I don't want to have to do this my entire life. He's like, I need to be investing. And so he started like literally like investing. He's like, I'm gonna go hard. He's like, I don't see where I'm at in 10 years. Okay, I was like, I mean, he had got to the point he had gotten so lean, I was like, son, I was like, don't get so lean. I was like, I mean, he he had started going hard in the paint, Chris. I mean, he was like beans and maybe rice. I mean, he was he was like, he was doing it. So I'm like, son, I was like, okay, I was like, you know, don't go so hard because you don't want to burn yourself out. So he was doing it, and um, I'm not really sure when we'll share this um this episode, but we do know that Q1 has been a tough um year or uh a tough quarter for the market. Sure. And he had gotten to the point where he had started investing into the market, and he was like, hey, he's like, I'm taking a beating over here. He's like, you know, I am uh, you know, practicing what you told me to do, and I see my money going down. He's like, what am I supposed to do? And I said, son, I was like, you have got to trust the process. I was like, I know it hurts, but just view it as those things being on sale. I was like, you don't, I was like, it's only a paper loss until you sell, so don't sell. Because he really wanted to sell. And so I said, What's gonna happen then, son, is that you gotta time the market, you know, when to get out and when to get back in. It's real hard to do that. A lot of people can't figure that out. And so I said, just ride it out. And so uh literally what happened is that he listened to me, and you know, the market kept going down. And then uh quite recently, you know, we had a couple good days in a row, and those are like great days on it. I was like, son, I was like, what happens is that when you jump out, you gotta jump back in. And I was like, I doubt if you would have sold it out one day and two days later put it right back in. Right. Like, so that's why you just have to ride it out. And so just uh to go back to your question, Chris, just kind of understand that you know we all have the ability, and that is why it's important to have a pro appropriate mind state or mindset, and also to try to hang with like-minded individuals who are trying to go on that journey with you. It's good to have some people who are kind of right there beside you, some people who are ahead of you, and actually some other people that's behind you, so you can share what you've learned with them to pay it forward. And so that's what I tell people all the time: hey, you know, community is very important. I know I'm very thankful for the uh the fire community um that we have here, and as far as just being able to have people who have basically gone down the same road that I've gone down, and also people I can bounce ideas off of and just really have a sense of community because a lot of times people they do uh give up or don't stay the course because they feel isolated and they feel like they're doing it all by themselves. So, you know, really, you know, it's important to have somebody there with you.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yeah, community is so important. I've mentioned several times on the podcast that community really is important. Um they helped me uh again back when I when I first started my journey, back when I got divorced. Uh again, you know, you felt so isolated, you're kind of by yourself, um and you're you're rebuilding an identity of who you are after divorce. And then also uh it happened again after when I left corporate, right? I actually retired from my career, and it was kind of a very similar kind of feeling, right? Who am I when I'm not working and where my who like what is my identity? And I'm telling you the community that that really you know kind of lifted me up uh has been amazing. So I absolutely agree with you. I think it's so important to find those like-minded people that you can talk to. Um super important for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah, one of the things I do, Chris, is that you know, my passion projects that I have um since step away from corporate, one of them is my you know my platform, Everyday Money Heroes, but also part of what I do is I now consider myself a financial literacy advocate. And so I I I go out, um, I basically evangelize the importance of financial literacy and financial independence. I go and um I approach my elected officials about the importance of uh financial literacy and how I share with them statistics show that there's a direct correlation to your life expectancy and your uh your median income. Really? It is, it's a direct correlation. Wow. So literally, if you go and you look at the individuals who have the smallest life expectancy, they have the lowest median income. That's just the way it is. So I tell them, like, literally by giving these people these tools to achieve financial literacy, we'll give them more years of their life. I was like, and nothing's better. I can't imagine if somebody comes at me right now and say, you know what, I can give you 10 more years of your life. I'll be like, what? He's like, all you gotta do is get your money right. Um there's research from um Operation Hope. Operation Hope um um shares a statistic that if you live in a neighborhood where um there's a 500 credit score, your life expectancy is 20 years less than one if of someone who lives in a 700 credit score. What? Yeah, Operation Hope puts that information out. And so that's why I'm very passionate about it. And I go out and I do these financial literacy workshops. And when I do it, ultimately one of the biggest things I try to do, I try to give people hope and understanding their financial um their journey as far as reaching financial independence. But what I try to do is get them plugged into the community, and that's my biggest thing. So I'm like, hey, I was like, do you know? And I'm fortunate um that I do these about once a quarter here in Jacksonville. And what I'm trying to do is that I'm trying to point them toward the fire community. And so um what I do along with the assistance of the Jacksonville group is that um I go, I share, you know, some of the statistics like I just shared here. Um I go kind of share with them some of the um the common kind of tenets or um attributes of the fire community as far as what we do, like you know, delay graphication of belief in community and things of that nature. I we do a panel where like actually some of the people here from Jacksonville, after I share all this information with them, we get like four or five people, and we rent out libraries, and they just sit there and hopefully after about an hour of the sharing information that they're like full of questions, and they just fire questions off, and people from the um Jacksonville group just you know answer those questions say, Hey, you know what, this is where I am on my journey, you know. This I just started, I'm in the middle, whatever. Um, and then we try to point them to hey, join the local group. That's what we try to do. I was like, because that is where the power comes. That's where you know you'll be able to find people have answers to like all these questions you gotta buy. Hey, you know, how do I handle insurance? Or um, you know, how, you know, what are the kind of the um financial um order of things I need to do, whether it's you know 401k or RRA, Roth, all this stuff. Um, you get the insights there from that community, and then you find friends. And that kind of goes back to what we said before. It's not easy doing this by yourself. Most people in society think that they're supposed to work until the day before they die. Yeah, right. And that's not something that people in this community want to do. So basically, we have, and I can tell you this much. One of the biggest challenges I have, Chris, is letting people know that there's an ulterior motive.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

You know, so when we tell them, like, we're not trying to sell you anything, no courses, no books. We're just trying to, you know, share. Matter of fact, we give stuff away at um these workshops. Like we give away um books, like you know, we'll give away um Jackie Cummins um wrote, yeah, we've given away her book, we give away her book, she gave us some books to give away their Fire Fire for Dummies, Fire for Dummies, yeah. She gave us some copies, so we gave um we've given those away. Um, we had another uh gentleman who um saw the workshops that we're doing, he had written a book um also, and he sent us like 30 copies of the book so we were able to give those away. Um another um gentleman uh oh man, Paul Molenkoff, once upon a fire. Okay, it's him and his wife, Amanda. They just recently ran a book, wrote a book. And I mean, literally he sent something like, hey, you know, he's like, I want to just go ahead and give to the cause, and I'm going to, and I'm and Paul, I apologize if I masquerad your name. But he literally sent us some books to give away at these workshops. And so literally, we want them to understand that we believe in paying it for work um and giving stuff away. So literally they go there, they ask questions, we're giving them books. Hopefully, we're planting the seed where they'll at least feel like it's possible. Um, but ultimately we hope that they'll come. We'll start sending them at like you know, monthly meetups or coffees and the stuff that we do, and then they'll start to become just a member of the community and having belief that they can do it. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

So so of the people that come to those workshops, I guess what kind of demographic, you know, are they younger, older? I guess the big thing is like people often what I've seen, they often are reluctant or hesitant to go to those those meetups because of embarrassment, shame, maybe some financial mistakes they've made. How do you help those people to start over? You know, or or at least or at least like you know, get them um you know, remove the shame to so that they do come to those events, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Yeah. Well, I how how can I how can I kind of formulate that? So the demographic that typically comes is probably somewhere like to mid-20s to around 50 that we have to come. So it's kind of a wide swath there of people who come. What we try to do is frame it as a financial independence discussion. And so just saying, hey, you know, we're we're just talking about things like that. The hope is that they will come. Now, people come with different, you know, situations, and you know, I know you've heard this before, Chris, they call it personal finance because it's very personal, because everyone has kind of this different journey that they're on. But what we try to do is get individuals to understand that you know what, what you want to do, you can do. And what you have done, if we need to undo it, it can be undone. And so it ultimately it's up to us. And so when those individuals come there, um, we try to be very welcoming. And so one of the things that's really cool also, if we can get them in the door, um, is that you know, the people from the community here, um, we know who we are, and we know who the visitors are. And so we're able to kind of like, you know, sit there, you know, really try to create an environment that's welcoming to them, and so that they're that they'll ask questions. Um, I'm to the point now where I think I'm on either my sixth or seventh one of these. And so what happens is that I'm fortunate now where I had people who attended some of the first ones who are now recommending it to other people. And so some people, some of the hesitation that they have is kind of dressed because they're getting kind of personal um recommendations saying, hey, you know what? We went to this thing, you know, at the library, you should go there. So that's working. Um, but then some people they'll come there, they won't say anything, and you know, they'll leave. Um, I've I've seen some people come and uh they'll ask where the bathroom is, and uh I won't see them come back. But you know, it's interesting that I understand that what we're trying to do ain't for everybody. I I do get that because no, some people want it and they want it right now, but there is a select few individuals out there who's like, you know what, I'm willing to, you know, buy back, you know, the next 30, 40 years for 10 to 15 years of sacrifice right now. And for those people, uh this is definitely the appropriate community I feel for them. They're able to just kind of go ahead and uh make those sacrifices now for their future self.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Right on. So those so those people that that come to the meetups, they're just getting started. Um and again, they're they they know their why, right? So they keep going when things get hard.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

What does winning look like for someone who's just getting started, right? Like, like what's the I mean, you know, you need some of those those first real wins to keep the motivation going, the wind in your sail, right? What what does that what does winning look like for those people just getting started?

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Okay, I'm gonna share with you uh the wins for me and the wins for them. Okay, so sometimes I'll go and I will have a RSV pilot of 50 people saying that they're gonna show up on a Saturday to attend one of these workshops. And sometimes 50 will say they'll come and I might get 20. But I'm like, okay, well, at least I got 20 out of 50, you know. Um so what happens is that it's a win for me when people show up because if nothing else, we're either planting the seed or watering the seed that's already been put there. But wins for them is when I see those individuals then who had no idea what the fire community was show up to a monthly meeting. Or I see them where they've joined the uh Facebook group, and I see a name that was at a workshop, ask a question in the group. You know, some like, oh, I was like, all right, they're asking questions.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

That's a win, right? That's a win.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

And so I'm gonna uh literally I'm gonna do a shout out to um a gentleman, his name's Sean. Okay. He came to one of our workshops July of last year, and I don't know where he found it at because I try to put it everywhere. I put flyers up in the libraries, um, I put them up at gyms, I pay for like marketing on Facebook and Eventbrite just to show this to people. So I don't know where he saw it, but he came, he's like, Yeah, he's like, I saw something about money, and um, I just wanted to come. So I'm like, all right, cool. So he came, he sat down, and he started asking questions. And I was like, man, I was like, either this guy thinks this is some kind of scam or he's really curious. So he just kept asking questions, and at the very end, he was like, all right, you know, um, he told me, he said, I ain't never been to something where somebody has talked about money and they tried to sell me something. Right. And I mean, this guy got on fire. I mean, he was on fire. He went, he, he owns a um an event business here in Jacksonville. He reached back out to me, uh, man, maybe like a month later. He's like, hey, he's like, I want everybody that works for my company to go through this class. I love that. And so I did a special kind of one-off for him for his class. He got his fiance on board. And I mean, when you're talking about somebody who's like an evangelist, I mean, he's like in the in the group, uh, in the uh the Teams group, not Teams group, I'm sorry, a Facebook group asking questions. You know, he's like, hey, you know what? Just pay it off a credit card. He's like putting it out there. And so he's like, hey, he gets it, you know. Um it's good for me. Um he reaches out, he'll text me, like, hey man, I got a question about this. Um, I'll respond back to him, I'll check in with him. So he is like kind of if I had to have like a poster person for like what I'd hope to happen for these workshops, is Sean. So um definitely shouts out to uh Sean and uh his fiance because you know they're like, hey, you know what? He's like, I'm gonna be there. He's like, I'm gonna be here the next 10, 15 years. He's like, watch me. I'm like, I believe you.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

I was like, you might be there before that.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And and you know what though, I mean, that's also just it it's sad that someone has to point out the fact that you know you try to do something like this, and people are just trying to sell you stuff. And yeah, so that's that's you know, unfortunately, that's the world we live in, right? Yeah. Um But that's awesome. That's a great story. And I I think that is definitely a win. When when you can start to have that that that fan, that raving fan, that evangelist for um for you, for your group, for what you believe, for the mission, the vision. I think it's awesome. That's awesome what you're doing, for sure.

unknown 37:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

So and with that being said, I I think uh, you know, tell people as we start to wrap up here, like where can people learn more about everyday money heroes and your groups and things like that? Uh share with uh share with the listeners where they can find you.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for the uh opportunity to be here, Chris, and to share a little bit about what I'm doing here in the Jacksonville area. Uh, if people want to continue to follow what uh what I'm doing, um probably the best way is to follow me on YouTube at Everyday Money Heroes. It's where we provide information and inspiration to people of all ages to take control of their financial journey. Um, also, you can uh follow us on the website, which is Everyday Money Heroes. I have a um an events tab where we go and any of the events that we're doing, you can find it there as far as you want to register for those events there. Um also, you know, we're available on um, well, I'm available on, you know, Spotify and Apple, things like that. Um also um I am on Instagram, stuff like that. But really, ultimately at the end of the day, um what I like to be for individuals is just a a beacon of hope to somebody who I didn't make, you know, I had a good living. Um I didn't, you know, I didn't have one like a you know an NBA athlete or a fancy influencer, none of that. But I was consistent, I made mistakes, but I stayed the course. And ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, I was able to achieve what I wanted to. And my ultimate goal was to be at 50 where I didn't have to work. And I achieved that. And that's not because I was perfect, I made mistakes. Lord knows my wife can tell you I made mistakes. At the end of the day, I just want people to know they know this is a safe place, that ultimately all that I'm trying to do is to encourage you and share with you what I know on how to assist you in achieving financial independence.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

I love that. Thank you so much, and thank you, Nick, for joining me today. I really do appreciate it. Um thank everyone for listening, for following along. Wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube, please like and subscribe, share with someone that you think would find value, and we will see you next time on the Extreme Personal Finance Show.