From $100K in Debt to Financial Coach with Justin Bennett | 103

From $100K in Debt to Financial Coach with Justin Bennett

Financial coach Justin Bennett had the career, the house, and the wife by his mid-twenties. But, also over $100,000 in consumer debt he had no idea how to get out of. In this episode, Justin shares the raw, real story of how he and his wife turned it around, and how that experience launched nearly two decades of helping over 1,000 clients eliminate a combined $10 million in debt!

We talk about why budgeting gets such a bad rep, the hidden difference between tracking and actually planning, the real reason most people are afraid to look at their own finances, and the mindset shift that has to happen before any process actually works. Justin also breaks down his 3P Framework (Principles, Processes, Plan), shares some incredible client stories, and gives a very honest take on the Buy Now, Pay Later trap that's making all of this so much harder.

He also just happens to be a lifelong Metallica fan who met James Hetfield backstage in 2004. So there's that! \m/ \m/ 

Contact Chris:

https://heavymetal.money

https://www.facebook.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://x.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://www.instagram.com/chrisluger

https://www.tiktok.com/@heavymetalmoney

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Resources and Links:

https://strongtowerconsulting.com

https://levelupyourfinances.com

Profit First: Transform Your Business from a Cash-Eating Monster to a Money-Making Machine

by Mike Michalowicz

https://a.co/d/08PEtGrj

The Money Habit: The Worry-Free Way to Financial Independence

by Mike Michalowicz

https://a.co/d/030t3Vk0

Waylon Jennings talks about quitting drugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFHKnVQZDeo

Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones

by James Clear

https://a.co/d/02kAHu17

Contact Chris:
https://heavymetal.money

https://www.instagram.com/heavy_metal_money/

https://www.youtube.com/@heavymetalmoney

https://www.facebook.com/chrisluger

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

From 100K in debt to financial coach with Justin Bennett this week on the Extreme Personal Finance Show. All right, everyone. Thank you for joining me on this week's episode of The Extreme Personal Finance Show. My guest today, I'm super excited. So by his mid-20s, he had the career, the house, the wife, but he also had over$100,000 in consumer debt. My guest this week is Justin Bennett. But instead of staying stuck, he got obsessed with learning how money actually works. He climbed out of that debt hole and then spent the next two decades helping over a thousand other people do the same thing. How awesome is that! He's the founder of Strong Tower Consulting, a financial coaching practice focused on budgeting, debt elimination, and helping couples actually get on the same page about money. Imagine that. He's also the author of the book Level Up Your Finances, a No Nonsense Practical Guide for Your Money. Welcome to the show, Justin. Justin, how's it going, man?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Chris, good to see you. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Oh yeah, man. This is gonna be great. Now I'm gonna come out, I'm coming out of the gate swinging, okay? You go back to your mid-20s. Um, you know, you are, I don't know, like you you have the house, you got the job, you also have a whole bunch of debt. What was that, I don't know, that that, okay, something has to change moment. What was that that wake up call moment for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

You know, great question, Chris. You know, as we were buying our home, I could tell something wasn't right. My natural instincts were telling me warning, warning, but I couldn't figure out why it was saying warning, warning. Again, as you mentioned, I had 10 years in the banking world and a business degree. So I couldn't figure out why. We close on the home, and though even though we own the home, this the feeling is getting stronger and stronger. Something's not right. And I can show you where I was in my living room when I said, I'm just gonna get pencil and paper, and I'm gonna write down everything. And I mean everything. So it wasn't a budget, it wasn't anything, it was just where are we? What you know, doing an assessment. My heart sank when I saw the numbers, and I called my wife into our living room and I said, Um, we got a problem. She goes, Oh, just in payments, the new mortgage, some food and fuel, we are six to seven hundred dollars short a month. Wow, this is not including clothes, right? Christmas, retirement, this isn't vacations, uh, fixing the cars, the that we wanted to take the home and flip it and sell it, you know, all the things that you want to do. You're in your mid-20s and you're excited, you want to take a home and turn it over and do all the things. And I go, We haven't even put our first house payment yet, and I don't know how we're gonna make the first house payment.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Oh my gosh. That is scary.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

And I told her we'd consider selling it actually, and we didn't. That was on the table right away.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Wow, that is scary. Well, a lot of couples, um, a lot of couples uh I don't say fight, but you know, they they disagree about money um a lot. What was that dynamic with you and and your wife like early on? Like, how did you both get on the same page?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

You know, a great question. Well, actually, if you rewind a few years prior, uh my wife was at a Bible study of all things, and she's like, Hey, I heard of this guy who helps people with finances, and here's a book. So she comes home with this book. Hey, this could fix our problem. This is before the big house and before we got all this extra debt. And I'm young, arrogant, I'm a banker. What does this guy know? I could teach this guy's class, right? Right. And then fast forward, we had doubled our debt load. And so, you know, thankfully, we've never really disagreed on what to do, other than that one moment. In fact, I was interviewed the other day and they said, What was the worst mistake you made financially? And I said, simple, not listening to my wife.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Right. Wow, wow, that's crazy. You know, well, you mentioned, you know, you're you were a banker, right? I mean, you worked in banking, literally an industry built around money. I just while I don't know, like, what does that say about I don't know, financial education or even like people that work in finance, like, I don't know what what does that say to the education system or you know, people in with a business degree? How did how do they get so disconnected personally from what they're doing professionally?

SPEAKER_00 4:47

You know, great question. I work with a lot of people who they may have an MBA or their business owner or a leader all the way down to single moms and everything. And one of the things, as you asked that question, I got to thinking about they we never in our late teens or our 20s get the full picture. We only get a piece of it. I remember at 19 years old in my math class from my professor said, I'm gonna teach you how to be a millionaire by 40. And I'm going, and this is before the fire movement, this is before any of this. I'm going, I'm in. And so that's for I learned about compound interest. They had this old school chart called Ben and Arthur. And if you put$2,000 a year back from 18 to 26 or 7, I can't remember which number, and then let it sit, it'd be over$2 million by you know 65. So at 19 years old, I'm investing in a Roth IRA. I'm also um, you know, putting money in a 401k. I'm doing it. I'm going, we're gonna do this, baby.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

But and you're late, you're late years ahead of most 19-year-olds.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, and I was working for a company that had a match. I was working for a company that went public while I was there, okay, and I got employee stock out of the gate, just given to me. So from an in from a from a young you know, adult getting ready to build the investments, we were already on pace to go for it, but no one taught me about the consequences of consumer debt. Uh no one taught me how to live on less than you make. I'm a natural spender, and so I was also racking up credit card debt. Uh, you can't tell by my hair, but I wasn't a rock band in college. I had a following of like three. I literally, no joke, I skipped school one day to go to the guitar shop to buy an amp that main level stadium players use. Yeah, my little following, and I didn't have the money. While I'm going to the guitar store to buy said amp, I am calling the credit card company begging them to raise my limit. And they didn't. I'm a college kid with a part-time job, and they said, sure. And they gave me an extra thousand bucks. Now I got this nice amp that you could hear from here to you know 10 miles away, um, that I later sold for a third of what I paid for. So I didn't pay rent.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Right. You know, it's funny. Uh, very similar story. That was one of the very first things I ever financed was my amp. I remember going to a guitar shop and it was one of those things where I don't want to say they're creepy, but you know, the sales guy was like, Well, hey, you know, you could take this home today. You know, and I at the time I didn't really know what financing really was. Like, you know, I just all of a sudden I understood that this thousand dollar amp, I could get it home for only$23 a month, right? I didn't know that it was 22% interest or whatever. Right. And uh, but yeah, it's funny that amps were the same thing, you and I like so great. Um so what what got you to um what got you to I mean again, you mentioned um I mentioned that you coach a bunch of people, and I think I read I read on your website that combined you've helped over a thousand people pay off like ten million dollars in debt. Dude, right that's almost I can't even I can't even imagine that. So I want to I want to talk about how you got into that, how you got into coaching, but first I want to know, um, because I just love to hear from your perspective, like what is that that common money mistake you often see people making over and over and over again? Or that that that one thing you wish you could just tell everyone, like that's a myth, like don't believe it. Or what's that one mistake people keep making?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

You know, uh one of the biggest mistakes that I really see is I can't live on a budget. The word budget almost has the word of dentist to it. Um like uh budget, it's the five-letter B word. You just go, ugh, right? And so I happen to like math and I like spreadsheets, so it came to me easily. I know it doesn't come easy to everybody else, but whether it's I my paycheck's different every time, so I can't do a budget, or you know, my expenses are always changing, or there's always these unplanned expenses. And what I've learned is really if you adopt the principle it's old-fashioned, way older than you and me, live on less than you make. If we can accomplish that, a lot of other things can follow suit. And so I tell people a budget is nothing more than a shopping list. You get to decide proactively how am I gonna spend, how am I gonna save, how am I gonna invest, how am I generous? Those are the four things you can do with money legally and morally. And how do we do that in such a way that we feel good about that? And so um, what I've discovered is when you put all your money just like I did with my house, and you put it all out there, the numbers will just talk to you. You can't, you don't have to be a math whiz to go, ooh, that's hurting. Or, oh, I'm actually uh believe it or not, I work with clients sometimes and they'll go, actually, I'm doing pretty good over here. I thought it was I'm actually doing better. So the biggest thing is getting on a plan does not mean it's the no police, you it's always a no. No, you are saying you're no longer playing defense, you're playing offense. And too often we get tracking confused with budgeting. Um, I literally did a talk last year, and this lady in her 70s came up to me and she goes, Justin, I wish I would have found you four decades ago. I go, Okay, um, she was an accountant and still is an accountant, 40 years of being an accountant. She goes, Justin, I've been so ashamed and so embarrassed. I am managing everyone else's business finances and personal finances. What am I doing wrong? And her big takeaway out of my talk was I was never budgeting, I was only looking back in the rear view mirror. Well, you can't take back your Chick-fil-A order. You already had it. You can't, once you've consumed it, it's gone. But if we make a plan, she's like, oh my goodness, that unlocked the door for me. If that was the missing piece, I wasn't looking forward and creating my own game plan and being proactive, not reactive.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Right, right. Do you feel as though to help them build a plan that is like the 5030-20 method, or do you have a particular type of buttons or is it different for everyone? I don't know. You tell me.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

You know, great question. And so here's what I do biggest thing is awareness. And so with my clients, one of the reasons why I help so many people is I do the budget with them. I sit down with them or meet on Zoom. I'm not dictorial, like you gotta do it this way. We go through based on their goals and their numbers. Once they see everything, again, that total picture, not just a slice, but when they see the total picture, it's amazing how often on their own they'll go, Oh, well, I need to do this, and I'll I'll need to do that. Um, you know, thinking about the show today, I'll give you an example of a client I had years ago. I always do a free one-hour consultation, no pressure, no sales. And they they would, I mean, we got along great. And they said, We're in, and you've met people before when you meet them for the first time, like, oh, these guys are gonna be fun to be with, right? We get to session one, and it was Jekyll and Hyde. I mean, they were so just, I'm not doing this and I'm not doing that. And I'm like, all I said was hi. I almost fired them, and I don't fire clients very often. Right. I'm like, what happened? And the wife said, I'm not cutting my credit card up. Husband goes, I'm not selling the Harley. I'm like, I didn't say anything. We get to the part of my coaching where the goals are set, they've seen their numbers. I've given them no advice up to this point. And the nanosecond, the whole picture kind of showed itself on Zoom. The wife goes, Oh, well, I'm cutting the credit card up. Husband goes, I'm selling the Harley. Wow. And I go, guys, time how um you you almost escoriated me with saying you wouldn't do something, but now you're what changed? Because I'm trying to figure out there was a complete switch. And the wife's word was very powerful. She goes, Justin, no one will sacrifice when there's no hope. If you're in a hopeless situation, you're not gonna sacrifice. But when you see it's possible, now sacrificing is a consideration. And so how I showed them their goals was X, I showed them how they could get there. Once they saw that, they're like, well, it's a no-brainer. And so that's what I help people do is just sit down with them, no shame, no judgment, because I've been there going, Hey, we're gonna look at this together, and it's amazing the number of times the answers just reveal themselves.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I wish that was something that we could help with the younger generation, right? Like, I mean, I have I have a 24-year-old daughter, and it's one of those things where um her and some of her friends, you know, it's like the world's a dumpster fire and it doesn't even matter. So why should I even invest? Like, you know, the Social Security is gonna be gone, like everything, you know, I'll never be able to retire. I just I wish we could help help the younger people. Um, so that like for instance, that that couple that you just talked about, right? Do you think it's more of a mindset shift, or is it helping them change behavior? I guess it's kind of one and the same, but what are your thoughts on on how okay, we're now going to make that switch or make that change?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I love that question because I also coach coaches. And I've been doing this so long, I'm kind of one of the dinosaurs in the business. And one of the things I talk about with coaches is you need a toolbox full of tools. Because for some, it is a mindset shift. For some, it's behavior modification. For some, we just got to have the right solutions. And I have found if I have all those tools, as I work with people, a lot of my clients do six to 12 months of coaching initially with me. And what is what's interesting is when you work with a single individual or a couple for six to 12 months, life is gonna happen. The car is gonna break down, the job's gonna get lost, uh, you know, something's gonna go bump. And then as that's happening, I get to be there. You know, I'm I've I've been told I'm a better therapist than I am coach, um, because we end up talking about so many different things because every decision we make, money plays a role. Sure. And so I get to kind of do all of it. There's part mindset work, there's part behavior work. Um, but in the six to 12 month process, here's what I always hear at the end Wow, I wish I would have done this sooner because now I see how this impacts other areas of my life. In fact, Chris, you'll like this. Often people will tell me once they tackle money, now they have the confidence to work on other areas of the life. So, I mean, I've had people tell me they've quit smoking. I've had people tell me they've lost weight. I've had some married couples, why I know, I don't know, but they had the need to tell me their sex life's improved. That's remarkable. So I tell people my marketing slogan, if you want to lose weight, quit smoking and have better sex, I can help.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Oh, funny. That's great, man. That's awesome. You know, and and I I know that we, you know, we we had talked now about like consumer debt, right? Credit card debt. But a lot of people, you know, I I talked to people like I know I talked to someone just recently who was older than me. I think they're like 54 or something, and she was still paying down her student loans. I know, right? So let me ask you a little bit about that, right? So so many people that you work with, you know, they they're probably being crushed by like student loan debt. Yeah, right. And a lot of them, and I I've brought this up so many times on the podcast and in my blog, that you know, people go to school, they get a degree that they never use. Right, you know, and so I recently had Jack Wang on the podcast from Smart College Buyer, and we talked about the ROI of that degree. I guess how do those conversations go when you start talking with them? I mean, obviously a pretty emotional discussion. If you know, I got all this student debt and I'm maybe I'm not using my degree or whatever. I mean, that's tough to pay off something that you're not even using.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Absolutely. And when you can defer, defer, defer, defer, defer. And my wife and I did that when we finally paid up for student loans, and I saw how much interest we paid because of all the deferments. It it that was the exact I'm like, it's just a pit in your stomach, right? So, what do we do? Well, two things. Well, one, we're gonna help them define a solution, um, right? But number two, I do a little work and I go, you know, the old therapist line, how does that make you feel? And one of the things we work through is how do we get rid of the shame, the guilt, the embarrassment of any financial decision? Um, not a student loan, but as you were sharing, that got me thinking about a single lady who's a widow I worked with several years ago. She was in her 70s in a wheelchair, and she's like, Justin, I've never gotten my spending under control, ever. And I don't know if I ever can. I'm in my 70s, I don't have a job. And just in a few months of working through her budget and showing her how and helping her get little win after little win after little win. I I wish you could have been there and saw the smile on her face three or four months in. She's like, Justin, Justin, I I've got a hold of my spending. And so, and it sounds trivial, but we gotta start small. And one of my favorite books is The One Thing by Gary Keller. Oh, I love that. Oh, it's a great book. And as you know, one of the things he talks about is dream big, think big, but act small. And one of the things we do often is we go, what victories can we celebrate after your first month or second month or third month of budgeting? And it might be we cut a subscription here or there. But if we can find just even the smallest of victories, it will lead to other victories. There's a proverb out there. Proverbs 13, 12 says, hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire accomplished is a tree of wealth. And that's what we're trying to do here is we're trying to give people hope. So that example of if I had someone coming in here today, 54 years old, and I'll make up a number,$50,000 in a student loan debt. Number one, if I can show them how they can pay off their debt two, three, four years, they're not thinking so much past anymore. They're going, ooh, you're telling me I could get this gone. And one of the fastest ways to get rid of shame is to get rid of the student loan. So let's get out of that loan. But if there's any residual, then hey, let's talk about that. And that's what we do here.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Right. That's awesome. Well, speaking about what you do there, like, how did let's talk about a little bit how you got to where you are? I mean, you you crushed, you know,$100,000 in debt, and you went from being in the hole to now coaching others to pay off their debt. Talk a little bit about that journey. How did you get here?

SPEAKER_00 20:00

You know, I'll rewind it all the way back to the beginning of my banking days. So my first career job in banking, I was a mortgage collector for a Fortune 100 company. It's a very interesting job when you're making 200 plus calls a day. Hey, if you don't make your house payment, we're coming to get it. Now, I'm 18, 19 years old. I don't even know what a budget is. I don't know anything other than you're behind. Well, I enjoyed the Rubik's Cube, if you will, of how do I get someone right side up, even though I didn't know all the things I know now. And I remember even at 19 years old, going, Man, if I could find a way to get paid to doing this, not collecting, but helping people with their money, I'd do it. Sure. Well, at the time, there wasn't such a thing as a coach. Business coaching was about the only thing out there. And so it was in 2007 and 2008 when my wife and I decided to get our own financial house together, uh, act together. We found a guy you may have heard of him, Dave Ramsey. We began following that, and he had a council back then, a counselor training program. And I and that really respun up my gears, going, Oh my gosh, that's what I want to do. And so I went to this training that was really for counselors and therapists, just to have another tool on their tool belt. And I left their jack going, this is a business. There's got to be a way to business this thing. And so I started in 2010 coaching people individually, not knowing how to do this. I mean, when I said I was a financial coach, people said, What sports team are you on? You know, now there's a coach for everything. And so um, that's how it started was just this early knack of I love to help hurting people. I've been hurting myself in money and other ways. And so now, how can we bring hope to the situation? And so 2010, we just jumped in full head head first, feet first, whatever you want to say, we just cannonballed in and we've never looked back.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

That is so awesome, you know. And you've helped so many people, and you can help even more with your book, right? So talk talk me a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

about like what made you decide that you know that was the time to write level up your finances but also like who did you write it specifically for right I mean who's your your avatar who's who's who are you writing this specifically for what are they gonna get out of this particular book I love it so I've always wanted to write a book first so that was always kind of circling in the background but it was one of my clients that came to me almost 10 years ago actually and said you need to put your stuff either on an online class or a book or something I'm like huh and so about a year into the whole COVID thing um I was invited to an opportunity to learn how to be an influencer whatever that means and that kind of re-sparked it so all those things combined I said you know what I've worked with a thousand people now I've probably seen enough tangible things so I began to write a book and the whole goal of this book is to help people achieve financial freedom and if you Google financial freedom you're gonna get lots of answers.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

I was gonna say what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Exactly for me here's what I've discovered if we can get you out of debt butt your house if we can get three to six months of savings and if you can live on less than you make if those three things are achieved you have financial freedom from financial freedom now we can talk about financial independence or whatever phrase you want to talk about but if we don't get to freedom independence never happens. And so for me what I've discovered is if set according to bankrate.com if 79% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck regardless of income if 69% of Americans according to savings.com don't have a thousand dollars in savings there's a lot of people that need some help and so one of the things that makes my book different is I don't talk word one about investing or retirement. Now I'm all about investing I'm all about you know saving for the next you know the next part of life but most people they go don't talk about any of that to me I'm trying to figure out I'm gonna pay my light bill right right and and so that's what got me inspired. I'm like how can I put what I do as a coach in my book and so there's lots of coaching stories in there and but the other thing I talk about is the need of accountability again accountability is not one of those sexy words but it's got a lot of impact what do I mean by that well as I was writing this book I've discovered everyone needs a coach maybe I'm a financial coach maybe it's a fitness coach maybe it's a business coach maybe it's a life coach what do I mean by that all of us are disciplined in something no one even Jacko is disciplined in everything and the areas that we are just gotta admit we suck. That's okay. Just admit it and get some help and so that's what this book is this book is to show you not only just how to budget how to save how to get out of debt but then when the going gets tough and old habits creep in where do I find accountability now a coach is one way. It could be a friend it could be a mentor it can be whatever but how do we get accountability is because studies show us when you have accountability for any goal fitness finance business your marriage parenting any of that you have a 95% likelihood of achieving that goal right now I'm not real smart but 95% that's pretty good odds. Yeah yeah well you know and and it's been proven right what you focus on grows or what you measure what you measure you can you can adjust and grow right so so many people out there are just because I I talk to a lot of people and I've coached I've coached people a lot of times I'm I help people and they're literally just winging it you know and I think you actually mentioned that in your like I think that might be your tagline right like just stop winging it right yep so um do you feel as though that is that's the biggest problem do you think that like I suppose most people out there are just winging it huh they are and a lot of it is just because they're unsure they're scared you know people think when I and you've seen the C for Kush people you know this people are afraid oh to get a handle of my money means I've got to grow up an adult meaning I can't go get the coffee uh I can't buy the thing on Amazon I can't go on a cruise I I can't I mean you can do any and all again you get to decide that's the beauty of it and yes a lot of people wing it honestly because they're afraid and when they open that box when they really do a deep dive of where am I right now they're afraid of what they're going to see. So I have workshops that I teach both at churches and at companies will have me come in do financial wellness talks and I have a debt um whole lesson just on debt and we have a section in there where I say okay what is holding you back from taking a hold of your what's holding you back and the I was surprised the level in a room the level of vulnerability I wasn't trying to create group therapy but it kind of comes out sure the number of people said I'm honestly if I'm just lazy or but the common one was I'm afraid what I'm gonna see and even more importantly what am I going to have to do to get out and one of the things I love to do Chris is more and more people in this digital age we live in they are afraid to open up their bank statement credit card statement. I mean they are literally petrified of even logging in so I have clients we're literally whether it's in my office or on Zoom we literally just go line by line as slow as we need to or as fast as we need to and we're just gonna go together you're no longer going alone. I love that everyone feels like they're on the island of misfit toys all by themselves. Right? No one could have screwed up as bad as I have and the reality is we've all made mistakes and so again that's where my book when you asked who's it for you know originally the kind of the tagline we had then I'm like I don't know if it would sell is this is a book for people who have tried and failed. You're not a failure but you've tried and it didn't work.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Great come come come here we'll help sure sure you know it's it's really interesting that you say that because for so long okay I was married for 15 years we were together for 19 years and that's kind of my story right like while we were together I never paid attention to the finances I never looked at how much money we didn't have um it was scary. I was afraid to find out well how much did we spend on groceries right like what what are I don't want to know how much how much like we're we're hemorrhaging money you know and uh it was totally scary and I I was kind of like put the blinders on and don't look at it until I had to until until I got divorced and then I all of a sudden I had to but to your point yeah I think a lot of people are just afraid they're afraid to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

And it's interesting you said that not until you had to right the sad reality is that's when again same as my story when I realized something was up and I could I couldn't handle anymore most of my clients they wait until it's almost their 11th hour or it is their 11th hour and then they go the number of people who have heard of my name locally and it takes them five six years before they go into my office because they don't want to be one of them. Like you're not one of them actually a study came out just the other day about marriage counseling that from the time of thought should we do marriage counseling to actually going is six to seven years. Wow. And by the time you go to the marriage counselor and my wife and I have been through that we've done the counseling thing we try to DIY it and if you can DIY it more power to you. But we believe in this culture everything should be DIY and no it shouldn't um it's okay to get help but we got to lower our guard we got to become vulnerable as one of my fellow financial friends out there says you got to get naked financially in front of somebody. Yeah right and so that's what's hard. And when people come in my office and they go oh wow I'm not being judged and I'm not being ashamed and there's actually some hope now I get excited and so I always try to find those points of where can I get you excited again and and because it is we've got to be willing to look in that box. The hardest thing is how do we do it in such a way that we don't wait until some very painful moment to then say okay now I have to look in the box.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Sure sure so what are some things that that we can do that you can do to bridge that gap because again a lot of these people you know they may just they may just trying to keep the lights on right they might just be trying to make sure they have food or they're making their mortgage or rent payment and thinking about you know financial freedom or something I mean it's so far away like almost impossible right yeah so we need to bridge that gap and give them hope what what what how do we bridge that gap?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

I love it I love it. So the first thing we got to do is identify how do we pay for the main things and there's four main things we have to pay for food basic food basic shelter which includes utilities transportation and clothing we need those four bases covered most working Americans can cover those at least and if we can go those are covered that's one less thing to worry about and burn calories over but the next thing is to just be able to sit down and do a full appraisal of where am I at? Where am I really sitting I'm gonna get real with myself and that's where change starts is are you willing to get real and vulnerable even if you don't bring in on anybody are you willing to go through because again as you put everything down on paper or a spreadsheet or an app whatever you use just like I did 20 years ago when I put everything down I couldn't help but go now we've got to do something I mean often when I meet with married couples one spouse is taking care of it the other spouse is you know you mentioned not they're oblivious to it right when I do coaching within about an hour or two the other spouse goes oh this is why my wife was freaking out got it right uh you know one of the things I measure I love to measure things in the very first session I have a scale one to ten if one is hopeless and ten is peaceful where is your emotions right this second almost all those thousand clients start between a two and a four interesting and that's under the overwhelmed and stressed category six months later almost all my clients end emotionally between a seven and a nine under the somewhat confident to very confident heading what I've noticed is if I have a couple and one spouse says two the other spouse says seven six months later when I interview them and I we do their kind of recheck and the spouse that says seven you know after that one session I became a three but they're no longer there is the point. And so if you're really ashamed or you're scared and you don't know where to start reach out to somebody if it's a friend or a friend a relative or somebody a coach whatever but have someone walk through with you that's not going to judge you. There's gonna be no shame involved and and we we got to start there. We've got to take the hard hard look and go why why is you mentioned you know when the you know I heard a saying years ago whoever said when the why is strong enough the how will happen I like that yeah that's one of the first things we do with the clients is what's your why you want to get out of debt great everyone wants to get out of debt. Why do you want to get out of debt? You want to retire early great everyone does why do you want to retire early let's find those whys so when going gets tough you're gonna stick through and do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

But but Justin there are so many things you know like I mean it kills me that even like DoorDash offers buy now pay later you know let's finance a Chipotle burrito like they just they make it so easy right they make it so easy there is so uh there's very little friction to just spend and spend and spend yes what are we doing what are we doing to ourselves in this society I don't know like what do we I know that's a huge systemic thing to change but man what do we do you're exactly right in fact I never thought about this until you were talking about this I am so glad when I when you and I were you know in our early 20s buy now pay later didn't exist that'd have been a way worse story right I actually bumped into an old credit card statement from like a couple decades ago and I looked on there I'm like who let that guy out whoa I'm like that would not be true in today's household but anyway yeah I mean when there's so less friction and it's not wrong that there's not less friction but because of that we just make quick decisions.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

So for instance if anyone listening right now struggles with Amazon and online purchase I'm gonna give you some a free coaching tip so the advice is worth what you're paying for it go on anywhere where you have an online spending habit unsubs unsubscribe from all newsletters un make it to where you have to log in physically and take off any and all cards because we live in a social media Chick-fil-a Amazon Prime now now now now world to do something that takes two minutes feels like two weeks. So if you go home and you're tired and you got an itch to buy something on Amazon but you have to go to the other room to get your card you know I'd rather sit on the couch. Right right and you will spend I mean I've had so many people tell me that one little trick has brought their spending down considerably just by un you know get rid of the auto login get rid of the cards get rid of the unsubscribe if that is an area of struggle and all of us have a place we like to spend a little money on and so maybe for you it's coffee maybe for you you know someone else it's whatever right you know back in the day you and I bought amps you know whatever um so one of the ways that we can add a little friction to our life and what I recommend it's old school old fashioned I put up my book is find those two or three areas that you have friction points and go to cash old fashioned old school cash you're not gonna pay your mortgage with cash you're not gonna pay your car payment with cash whether it's groceries whether it's you know the coffees even in 2026 most places still take cash there's a myth out there that and there's a few that don't but make it inconvenient just a scoche and it's amazing how much less you'll spend interesting yeah we we had that discussion um I uh I host uh an in-person meetup every month and um there was uh one meetup we were at and the we had this really open conversation about cash and it was interesting how split it was across the board as to some people most of their spending is cash and it causes friction because it's like they feel that money leaving there's other people that cash feels like it's free money because it's not in a dashboard anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

That's kind of where I fall to be honest with you. But but then we found uh we were at uh University of Minnesota Mankato we were down in southern Minnesota so we had a bunch of college students there as well and it was so funny because they said they never touch cash ever like I it was like I just don't know it's just such an interesting thing on where cash you know is used and w who people who are the people that focus on it versus not and it definitely is something where um you know believe it or not I don't know if I talked to us about this in the podcast I went down to I was I was in Florida for actually was I was there for pod Podfest but I also stayed a couple extra days and went to um bush gardens and I did some touristy stuff. Everything was was cashless right so it's like I had so I went down there and I had like a couple hundred bucks cash because that's what I was gonna spend you know all my all my like coffees and all that stuff because it was already already accounted for kind of a thing and I couldn't use the cash and get this believe it or not there was an ATM at Busch Gardens there was an ATM that you feed it cash and it immediately gives you a debit card with that amount of money on it. Instant instant gratification to give you a card yeah it's pretty funny anyway yeah I don't know it I I completely understand where you're coming from but it's just interesting I wonder where we're going to be in 10 years 20 years when it comes to cash.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Well and here's something else because I do work with people of all ages where they've tried the cash thing and they go Jeffson look I tried it and I I still burn a hole in my wallet. It just didn't work there's no pain associated with it and I still think it's a minority but when that happens I go okay well we're gonna add friction. So here's some ideas for your listeners that you can do if you try the cash method and it's not working. Number one, open up a separate bank account for wherever your splurge of choice is so if you like coffees and you need a dashboard as it works great. Create a separate bank account call it coffee whatever that's one way you can do it. Another way especially if you have the one of the things I commonly see is people who try to save money then they pull it out try to save money pull it out and I get it from my friend Mike McAllowit First is what he's most known for. I love that book. And his brand new book The Money Habit came out in January on personal finances. It's a really great book I recommend it highly and um one of the things he talks about both in Profit First and in the money habit is anything you want to say maybe it's your emergency fund in this point put it in a separate bank that you have no online access to and you have no debit card to you literally have to walk into the bank or credit union to make the deposit and walk out to make the deposit or the withdrawal you actually have to again however you need to set up friction for yourself but there's got to be a friction mechanism in place in those areas of impulse for some people it's gonna be cash for some it might be a different bank account for some people might be a whole nother bank altogether for certain things. But I learned this at a conference years ago it wasn't even a money conference. Do not be a slave to the tool the tool needs to work for you I have some people that use tools I would never personally use. Well I could sit on my high horse and go well here's my spreadsheet myself and a few other coaches we put this together is one of the best spreadsheets ever or I could go if the thing ain't working let's get a different app let's get a calendar method I don't care what we do but let's and so that's one of the things that my clients do is identify what tool works for you. Yeah I mean the the best tool is the one you're going to use consistently right yeah absolutely for sure and that's where I think sometimes people people wing it to is they've tried budgeting one time um and and what happened was they spend a whole eight hours I'll never forget it one of my first clients I don't do this anymore but I used to send this big elaborate spreadsheet and they would have to fill it out before they came in I'll never forget it this is many years ago we don't do it this way now um she said Jeff so I spent eight hours on your stupid spreadsheet your coaching better be better than the spreadsheet I just got done with and thankfully it was um but what I discovered was oh I know spreadsheet so it's come easy to me but to someone else it's like a foreign language so one of the things I help my clients do as I mentioned is identify what are you going to use what can you use and let's get some traction on that right on right on that's awesome so if there's if there's if there's one thing that you could leave our listeners with today if they're again they're they're maybe they're struggling right they're they're trying to get take control of their finances they know they got a bunch of debt and there's one that very first step um other than reaching out to you for coaching that that that that very first step what do you think they should do I think the very first step is really honestly a conversation with themselves okay is now the time that I'm going to invest in me getting my financial house together and when I say invest in me that doesn't have to be with the coach just in general you know the old have am I am I sick and tired of this enough to go this has to change I started reading a book uh a while back and it was by a psychologist I can't remember the book but in the book it talked about how alcoholics that stop more of them stop without a therapist than with and he's like I'm a therapist writing a book and it's like well how does that square and he goes I'm not saying no to therapy I'm not saying no to coaching or any of that right but what he said was when the alcoholic says I'm done for I'm a bit you know I grew up with old school country uh Whalen Jennings Johnny Cash sure um all the things and Whalen used this well like$1500 a day drug habit back in the 70s right and he's like I wish I had that money back for 20 years he did$1500 a day of cocaine and all various other drugs right why did he change well if you if you see the interviews on YouTube or wherever you do this uh he talks about how he was gonna stay clean for a month and he's gonna get right back into the mess and as he got clean he saw his wife and how much he was hurting her oh sure and he said it's one thing to hurt me but I don't have the right I don't have the right to hurt someone else He said, I quit. And he even said that you know, the person he talked to said, It's like the odds are so stacked against you. Um, just to cut that level of cold turkey. But for him, that why was strong enough. He said, I'm tired of hurting somebody. So what's the first thing is really just go, am I tired enough? Am I ready to go? It's time for a change, no matter what it takes. Am I willing to take the courage? Am I willing to have the courage? And when you have courage, you got to be willing to do it. Scared, you gotta be willing to, you know, you gotta be willing to make mistakes, and that's not easy. Um, but if you're willing to go, I'm tired of being this way, that's the start. Every one of my clients that's won, when I've won, other people that I know that have won, that started with a moment of this ends now.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Yeah, it's it's a hard conversation to have with yourself. But I think once you um once you kind of um I don't want to say change your identity, but once you take on this identity of someone, right? I think I got this from James Clear book, James Clear book about um atomic habits. That book where he talks about if you identify with someone that is a particular way, it's easier to make those changes. Right. So if you can now identify, like I I identify as w someone who doesn't smoke, right? I don't smoke. I identify as someone that doesn't smoke. It's not I don't have to make a decision. That's just who I identify with. So if you can start to identify as someone, like you want to make those changes, well, now you're going to identify with someone that that is going to take control of their finances, that's going to pay off that debt, that's going to be good with money. Like whatever your specific goal is, if you can identify as that person, it makes it super makes it way easier. Not I want to say it's not, it's not just easy, but it's going to make it easier to kind of stick to those goals for sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

I love it. And what what you just talked about is something I'm unpacking and working on is what I call the 3P framework. And what that is, is you first got to identify what are my principles. Once we've identified our principles, what are the processes that are going to use those principles? And then and only then do we get a plan. So for instance, like with diet, I'm convinced every diet works because every one of them's got more tests, they got tons of testimonials. But what happens if we start with the plan first before we go, what are the principles? So for instance, you know, you know, whether whether it's the carnivore diet or the Atkins diet or the fasting diet, I like the seafood diet. First, you see it, then eat it. Um, right? That's my kind of diet. But what happens is we pick a diet and we get excited and we do the right things. And by golly, George, we lose the inches, we lose the pounds until it's our birthday.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

And then we got to have the cake and the ice cream. We're in that fork in the road decision. Uh oh, most diets don't allow cake and ice cream. And if I cheat and have cake and ice cream, well, now maybe that plane, because here's the common thing that I hear with people with diets. Well, it's just not sustainable. Well, it was for a whole bunch of other people. Same way with getting out of debt. You know, the story I love to share here, and I got the story of my book with a client. A couple came to me and they had$150,000 in debt, not counting the house. And they said, Justin, we want the most aggressive get out of debt plan. Who, where is that? And I said, if you want the most aggressive, the Ramsey method, the debt snowball method is the way. First six months, they plowed through$100,000 in debt. They sold stuff, worked extra, they were busting it. About eight months later, I get their budget and I see two car loans that weren't there before and a credit card that went up.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Oh, they just swapped one for the other. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

Now I get clients that like to try to fool me and play April Fool's tricks throughout the year. So I had to go, okay, is this for real, or are they just trying to spook me, right? We get into the session and the husband goes, Did you see the budget? And I go, I did. Well, that whole Ramsey thing is just not sustainable. And I go, Well, what wasn't that about, Dave? Stop. What are your principles, guys? If your principles are, I'm never gonna borrow money again, Ramsey is your process. But if you're okay with getting car loans, let's find some other process because it's only gonna frustrate you. So I gave him one homework assignment, go on a date, make sure it's in the budget, and go, what is our principle with our debt? And if we say no more debt, let's do the debt snowball. If we're okay with debt, let's go find another avenue, another process. And they said that date was one of the most impactful dates they ever had because they had to go, what are our principles first? And so that's why I always tell people you got to figure out your principles, budgeting, saving, and then even retirement. What does your investment principles look like? What does your generosity principles look like? What does your principles look like leaving a legacy to your kids and your children and your grandkids, right? And once we've identified those principles, now we can find a process that goes hand in glove and it fits. But when we have a principles mismatch, the processes playing is just gonna frustrate you. Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Wow. That is that's deep, man. But it but it's it's very true, very true. Well, I'm I'm really excited for people to get their hands on your book, to learn more about what you have to offer. Let people know where they can find you, get more information on you, where they can find your book. Let people know everything that they can about you.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

You bet. Go to levelupyourfinances.com, and we have books in all formats hardcover, softcover, ebook, and audio. I read the audio book, so it may put you to sleep. I don't know. Uh, but we have those formats. There's also a link for a free one-hour consultation up there if you want to find out more. So levelupyourfinances.com.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Awesome. Thank you so much. And I have I have a big question to you. Did you get Metallica tickets for the sphere in Vegas?

SPEAKER_00 50:00

I did not. I wanted to. Now let me tell you, uh the old me in college, I would have found five credit cards if I had to to get to that. But I had to go, oh man, I got teenagers and kids getting married and all the things. I'm like, uh, darn it.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Yeah, yeah. It was uh yeah, it was a little more, a little more than I thought it was gonna be, but it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing. So um, yeah, I did, I did get my get my my ticket for Metallica this. But but you've got you've actually been in the in the snake pit before though, huh?

SPEAKER_00 50:32

I was in the snake pit in St. Louis in 23. Uh, so that was a lot of fun. That's awesome. And then I met them in person backstage in 2004. Oh wow, that's cool, man. Yep, they were they're they're the real deal. And I'll never forget it when I got to meet James, and I'm like, Yeah, right. And you know, the other three guys had one bodyguard, James had three. Um so and they tell you when you get in line, you get like 30 seconds, get your question, get your picture, they're moving on. And when they go to the next person, don't say a word. Got it. So James gets to me, and I'm like, you know, and I'm trying to talk and whatever. And I told him this is my first actual show, not counting this club member show I went to the year before. The next guy next to me is like, this is my 20th show. James comes back to me and goes, You got work to do, buddy. I'm like, how cool is that? And then on stage he announces it. Wow, he goes, I met a guy, this is his first concert, I'm so excited for him. And then right next to him was and I'm like, That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Wow, that is so cool. That is so cool. Yep, I love that. I love that. I I remember um I remember it was nine 1990. It was an evening with Metallica, so there was no opening act, and they were playing um I don't know, I think it might have been the old Metrodome that was here. I can't remember. But it was so funny. We, you know, all of us from high school, we went down there, and when we our tickets were nosebleeds, way, way up there. But I remember we we get there, they'd already started playing, right? Enter Sandman is playing, that's what they opened with. So we get there, it's dark, they're playing, and me and all my friends, we scatter. And me and my friend Matt, we actually go down as close as we can down to the down to the barricade. Like we are right there at the stage, and we just kept on like inching our way like into the into the crowd, so like you know, ushers can't check your tickets and stuff. Anyway, so we're right there, front row, super awesome. And then when they did Seek and Destroy, James gets down and he's walking around with the mic, having people sing the course. Uh-huh. And sure enough, he stopped, and my buddy Matt, right next to me, got to sing it into the mic, and I got to give him a high five. And so that was my one interaction with James Hetfield, which was pretty rad.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

But oh, that's awesome! That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

That's super cool. Well, again, I again, Justin, thank you so much for joining me today. Super fun. Um, again, thank you everyone for listening, for following along. Please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube. Please share with anyone that you think would find value. Really do appreciate it. And we will see you next time on the Extreme Personal Finance Show. See ya!