Extreme Personal Finance Show
Personal finance doesn't have to be boring. We refuse to let it be.
The Extreme Personal Finance Show is where financial independence meets a crushing guitar riff. I'm Chris, early retiree, tech guy, and lifelong metalhead. I built this show for people who wanna take control of their money and their lives!
We cover everything from building wealth, killing debt, investing for the long haul, side income, real estate, retirement planning, and the mindset shifts that make all of it actually stick. No filler, no BS, no 47-minute intros.
Each week I sit down with brilliant guests from the FIRE movement and beyond. These people who've cracked the code and are generous enough to share it. Plus solo episodes where I break down the stuff nobody talks about at the dinner table but everybody needs to hear.
This isn't your parents' money podcast. Strap in and hold on tight!
HORNS UP! 🤘🤘
Extreme Personal Finance Show
8 Money Rules with Nik Johnson | Chris on Everyday Money Heroes | 106
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8 Money Rules with Nik Johnson | Chris on Everyday Money Heroes | 106
Chris Luger didn't grow up wealthy. He didn't have a finance degree. He started over from scratch after a divorce in 2015, barely knowing what a budget was. Nine years later, he walked away from his W2 at 50 with a $2.5 million portfolio.
In this episode, Chris joins Nik Johnson on Everyday Money Heroes to tell that whole story from the messy beginning, the real estate wins (and the properties he eventually had to cut loose), the power of the FIRE community, and the 8 Money Rules he lives by.
What you'll hear in this episode:
- How a divorce in 2015 became the catalyst for Chris's entire financial transformation
- Why he gave himself a 10-year timeline to reach FIRE and hit it in nine
- The mix of residential real estate and index fund investing that built his portfolio
- Why he's now transitioning out of residential rentals and into commercial real estate
- His 8 Money Rules — practical principles covering everything from learning the fundamentals to protecting your wealth to building an emergency fund
- Why "money is just an amplifier" and how financial freedom lets you give back in ways you never could before
Contact Chris:
https://heavymetal.money
https://www.facebook.com/MoneyHeavyMetal
https://x.com/MoneyHeavyMetal
https://www.instagram.com/chrisluger
https://www.tiktok.com/@heavymetalmoney
email: chris at heavymetal.money
Connect with Nik:
https://everydaymoneyheroes.com
https://www.youtube.com/@Everyday-Money-Heroes
Resources and Links:
MOSH PIT RULES FOR MONEY: WHAT HEAVY METAL TEACHES US ABOUT FINANCIAL SURVIVAL
https://heavymetal.money/moshpitrules/
Contact Chris:
https://heavymetal.money
https://www.instagram.com/heavy_metal_money/
https://www.youtube.com/@heavymetalmoney
https://www.facebook.com/chrisluger
email: chris at heavymetal.money
Hey, hi everyone. Welcome to this episode of the Extreme Personal Finance Show. This one's a little different. We're gonna actually go back to an episode that I got to join Nick Johnson on his podcast, the Everyday Money Heroes Podcast. And we talked about my journey to FI that took under 10 years. Um we covered everything from starting over after divorce to building up a portfolio containing index funds, real estate, and then we actually explore um my eight rules. Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of the Extreme Personal Finance Show. In this episode, we're actually gonna take a look back at the episode that I got Hi everyone, welcome to this episode of the Extreme Personal Finance Show. This episode, we're actually gonna go back to when I was a guest on the Everyday Money Heroes podcast with Nick Johnson. You're gonna love this conversation. Uh Nick and I, we we come from the same background. We came from a background in tech, we have similar paths, but also we both have a genuine belief that financial freedom isn't just about the money, it's about having choices, having options in what we do every day. Uh, we covered everything in our conversation from starting over after divorce, my path to Phi, that took about 10 years, um, just under 10 years. And then we're gonna talk about how I have eight money rules that we can live by. This is actually a take on an article that I read over in the UK talking about the etiquette rules for a Motch Pit. And I thought, hey, how can I translate that to some sort of money rule list? And so we're gonna talk through those eight money rules in this podcast. I'll let you listen to number one, my favorite, my favorite rule that uh that I have in that list. So thanks again for joining us and enjoy this conversation on the Everyday Money Heroes podcast with Nick Johnson. 20 like 2015, 2016, I spent like a year just educating myself. And that's when I found, I mean, tons of books, podcasts, blogs, I mean, you name it. And a lot of people, you know, they'll know Mr. Buddy Mustache and and all of the all the people in kind of the Fi space. But one thing that I learned was and and I I was shocked because I remember learning, like, wait, so there are people that don't have a mortgage? Like what? Like that's a thing. I didn't know you could ever do that.
SPEAKER_00Hello, and welcome to Everyday Money Heroes. We provide information and inspiration to people of all ages to take control of their financial journey. I'm your host, Nick Johnson, and today we have Chris Luger. And before we get into our conversation with Chris, um, I want to ask you if you have not, that you would please subscribe if you're watching us on YouTube. If you're listening to this in um podcast form, that you would also follow us on your podcast platform of choice. So, with that being said, a little bit about Chris. Uh, today he is someone who proves that you don't need a suit and tie or a background in finance to retire early. He spent years in the world of enterprise tech before deciding that the standard retirement at 65 Plan just wasn't going to cut it for him. By combining the discipline of the fire movement with a high-impact real estate strategy, he built a $2.5 million portfolio successfully to retire at the age of 50. He is founder of Heavy Metal Money and the host of the Extreme Personal Finance Show, where he teaches thousands of people how to build wealth with the same intensity and passion you would find in a front row mosh pit. Whether you're a fan of the music or just a fan of financial freedom, his approach to investing and intentional living is exactly what we advocate here. So please help me welcome to Everyday Money Heroes and the man behind the mosh pit, Chris Luger. How are you doing, Chris? I'm doing great, man.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much. That was that was amazing. I think I'm just gonna I'm gonna hire you to follow me around and do my intros.
SPEAKER_00Hey, I play I I I play some brass instruments too, so I can actually like play. There you go. I I could play a little brass and then I do your intros, man. Well, it is uh great to have you here, Chris. Um let's see, whenever whenever I have someone on the show and I have a backstory with them, I'd like to share it. I had heard of Chris um for the last couple years, and I would see Chris in places, but we really didn't have the opportunity to really connect. And I think probably the first time we really had a chance to connect was in Podfest um in Orlando, Florida, um, this year. Yeah, it was this year. So we had a chance to connect there, really uh talk there. And then went from there, then we actually um had a chance to um kind of reconnect in economy in Cincinnati. And um I will probably see him again um at uh FinCon. Probably are you doing FinCon this year? I am, yeah, Palm Springs. All right, nice. Yeah, so I'll I'll see him there. So we'll we'll hit the trifecta uh this year as far as being able to connect with each other. So um that's great. I I appreciate Chris because um there's a lot of things that go on out here in the uh personal finance area in a in this niche, and it's not always solid as far as you know, some of the things are said and it's done. And one of the things I really appreciate about Chris is that Chris um he's a straight shooter, you know, he gives you to you like it is. Um, he does not necessarily um someone who was um born of affluence. Um, and he um resonates with uh me because you know we kind of walk the same path as far as he had a background in tech, I have a background in tech and things like that. So what I like to do is kind of get some of his story, but then also he has a very unique um approach or some some rules that he's shared. And I heard those rules, and I was like, hey, these are gonna be great for our audience as well. So, first of all, I want to ask you, Chris, yeah, where are you on your Phi journey?
SPEAKER_02Let's see. Um, well, I mean, I officially um, again, I don't really like to say retired, but I officially left W-2 work um just over two years ago. Okay. So February of 2024. And so um uh so I'm Phi and I've been working the last couple of years on just kind of um, you know, financial literacy, um, working a lot on heavy metal money and the podcast, trying to help others with their finance if I can. Um, and then I have some other things I've been working on too, some real estate stuff. But yeah, my my FI journey, it took uh it took about nine years to get there. And I don't know if you want to jump into that, but yeah, that's uh so right now I'm I'm technically FI. Um I I kind of I question, you know, if people ask me, am I retired or am I self-employed? I sometimes say, uh, I do a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh. You know, and it's great because you know, we have that option to do a lot of things, you know. And I know the retirement thing is kind of uh tough to say because you don't want to say, because as soon as you say you're doing something, um, some individuals will say, Hey, I thought you were retired. Well, retirement does not mean that you no longer do anything well that will generate no that won't generate revenue. It just means that you have the option to not doing it. Um, it means that you have autonomy over your time. I mean, it just means that you are to the point now where your investments take care of your cost of living. And ultimately, that's what it is. I tell people all the time, you know, there are some people who are born retired, they come into enough influence affluence where it's like, okay, you know what? They never really have to work or they're in their life because you know they their parents have set them up in a particular way. So retirement isn't just about, you know, a particular um age, it's about having the the means and the resources to be able to go ahead and take care of your living.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And like you said, it gives you options. I think that that's one of the biggest things, too, is that um, you know, it it allows you to do those things that fill your heart, that you're passionate about, that you may not need to make an income, or maybe you don't need to make a larger income. You know, you can do those things that, you know, maybe it's working for a nonprofit, maybe it's focusing more time on your art or whatever it is, that's what Fi gives you. It gives you options to do those things that really light you up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true. Now, you said it took you, Chris, nine years to hit fi. So what what is what is that look that well is that from hey, you know, learning about um the concept to crossing the finish line or crossing that that that's that's an impressive timeline.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, man. Yeah, so I um it all started around 2015 when I got divorced. So I really didn't know anything about personal finance, I never really cared. I never really I didn't, I I kind of avoided it to be honest with you. My my uh my wife at the time handled all the finances. She uh she dealt with paying the bills. I I was kind of I was adverse, right? I didn't want to know how much money we didn't have, I didn't want to know how much things cost. Um, and then when that all of a sudden when she left, then now I had to learn this kind of on the fly. So I remember Googling, you know, how to budget.
SPEAKER_03Well, and uh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's you know, I I first started, I started with Dave Ramsey, right? That's one of the first people that comes up. So um, that's really where I started. And then it was quickly, you know, 20 like 2015, 2016, I spent like a year just educating myself, and that's when I found, I mean, tons of books, podcasts, blogs, I mean, you name it. And a lot of people, you know, they'll know Mr. Bunny Mustache and and all of the all the people in kind of the Fi space. But one thing that I learned was and and I I was shocked because I remember learning like wait, so there are people that don't have a mortgage. Like what like that's a thing? I didn't know you could ever do that. Like that was such a new concept. And so I was like, wait, so if I'm intentional with my money, I could basically retire if I wanted to. Um at the time, I mean, I really I loved my job and and I really wanted to keep working. It was it was, you know, that was something that I wanted to do. But I was like, oh, if I'm intentional, I could be done in like 10 years. That's that no way. I mean, I couldn't believe it. And so I just uh, you know, that's when my life turned around, right? I I really was focused and it took, you know, nearly 10 years of hard work, but I was able to leave work at age 50. And uh yeah, it took me basically nine years to get there. So I gave myself a 10-year timeline, I made it nine, and I'm I'm an advocate that I do believe that a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot of people could be phi in 10 years. You know, there's just with some intentionality, um, some discipline, I will say, and I've said this before, um, I think it's it's relatively simple, but it's not easy.
SPEAKER_03Yes, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, I agree with you. I tell people something similar. I tell them all the time, like it's not complicated, but it ain't easy, you know, and I tell them that quite often. And because if you look at your situations, like, okay, they'll say, okay, well, hey, um, you did it in you know nine years, but you had a computer job. But you also had other things you were dealing with. You were dealing with you already shared that you're going through divorce, you have kids, and so there were other things that was that were pulling on you, just weren't this single individual who was this tech bro who was making all this money, who could just you know, you know, stole all this money. And so it's really easy for us to manufacture excuses when it's something that we really don't want to do. And so I tell people all the time, I look at you, Chris, and I get inspired because um like, okay, I like if he can do it, it's a chance I can do it, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, and and I will I will say, I mean, uh granted, it took me nine years, and uh I do understand I come at it with a little bit of privilege, right? I worked in tech, um, but I wasn't making huge money. I mean, for a majority of that time, I was making in the like the 80s, and then the last few years of my of my uh my career, I was at about like 130. And so there are people that make a lot more than I do, and and if you're a couple, you really are making a lot more than I was. And so I do feel as though even if you're you know making 50-60, you could still do this. It may take you, you know, 11, 12 years or something. You know, there are there are definitely ways when we're intentional to to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and if you look at that in if you look at you know 10 to 12 years in the totality of our lives, that's a very small segment to be able to reap a lifetime of benefit. Yeah, totally. You know, I mean, literally, I was in my closet and I I looked at a leather jacket that I had, right? I bought this leather jacket. Well, so when I got out of high school, I went to the military, they put me in New Jersey. Um I live in Florida, I didn't have any heavy jackets, and so I remember I went to Wilson's, I don't even know if Wilson's is still open. Oh, I remember that. That's where I got my leather jacket. Yes. See, see all these parallels, man. I went and I bought this leather jacket. I remember I think I maybe paid like 40-50 bucks. I don't know what this leather jacket, still to this day, I can still fit in it, which I'm pretty impressed. Um, it's still in my jacket, it's still hanging around, still in good shape. I'm like, this freaking jacket's like 30 years old. And and as I think about it, I that jacket could be, you know, it in five life, that could be enough for three times over for someone to reach financial independence, you know. And so 10 years really ain't that long. If you look at things around your house, you can easily point out, but hey, I bought that purse two years ago, I bought those sneakers, you know, three years ago. Yeah, 10 years really ain't that long, and so we just have to knuckle down.
SPEAKER_02You know, it it does go by, it does go by pretty quick, right? And and there are gonna be times, and I just want to touch uh touch on this a little bit too. Sure. There are gonna be times that it's tough and you're tired, and you're like, oh man, you know, like I just wanna, you know, I'm I'm tired. I don't want to cook dinner again. I just want to go out. I just like there are times when it's gonna be tough, and that's why it's really important to focus on the why of why you're doing this, right? So, you know, if you if you're by yourself or you have a partner, like you sit down and have those discussions, like dream a little bit, like figure out what would life be like if you didn't have to work for money, yeah. And what would you spend your time doing? You know, are you into fitness? Do you want to volunteer? Do you want to spend time on art? Do you like do you want to spend more time with your kids? Do you want to spend time at their ball games? Like whatever it is, that really starts to keep you focused when times get tough. Is that why?
SPEAKER_00You know, that is uh that's true, Chris. And when you we talk about that that Wi-Fi, one of the things that really pushed me is that I realized that my kids, I was like, man, my kids are getting like older, much older. I was like, I need to be in a situation where like especially like those those teen years, I like to be around um them as much as possible. And I I remember there's a song uh The Cat in the Cradle. Oh yeah, and um that song gets me so much, you know, you know, when a young man wants to spend time with his dad. And you know, he gets older, um, both of them get older. And then the the you know, the the the the father starts to reminisce, and then uh he realizes that the one thing that his son ended up doing was being just like him, and that's not having time for his family. And so I I never really wanted that to be me. And so I was like, hey, I'm gonna keep pushing myself so I can try to be available and around. Um I love him to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02I love that. Yeah, my that was a really, really powerful song. My dad, my dad used to sing that song all the time. It was really important to him. And I will say, my dad, my dad was around, you know. He he really tried, he worked really hard, you know, single dad raising me. Um, he worked in instrumentation at um the St. Paul Brewery for like 25 years and then ended his career at 3M um as as a uh HVAC technician. But that was the thing is you know, he uh he really did he did really did try hard to be around to help me with things and um yeah anyway, I'm I'm just getting I'm getting all the memories. But yeah, hey, so cat cat in the cradle. So that Harry Chapman song, um, those of you that are into rock and metal, go listen to the Ugly Kid Joe version of that song. They redid it, and it's a good rock version of it.
SPEAKER_00So I have never heard of that, but I will be checking it out. Uh yeah, man. Ugly Kid Ugly Kid Joe. Ugly Kid Joe.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I got it. Those of you may remember uh yeah, they they're they're big hit. They're like, I don't want to say one hit wonder because Cat in the Cradle was a big hit for them too. But um, they have a song called I Hate Everything About You. And it's hilarious, it's hilarious. It's just it's a funny, it's a funny song anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's that's cool. I um as far as what comes to metal, I can't say that I actually uh know a whole lot about metal, but you know the the interesting thing about it is because we're really close as far as NH um Chris to each other, and so we remember like years ago, it's like now it's so many things are siloed now. It's like you can see someone and they could be on a platform and they can have millions of followers and all this, and you'd be like, I don't even know who this person is. Back like when we were younger, like in our teens as a kid, maybe even our early 20s, it was not siloed. Pretty much, if you were a star, most people knew you. And so when it came to like heavy metal, only things I really knew was called like back then, it was like okay, MTV, right? So I was M T V. And so uh I remember um the first song I I ever heard of like a hard rock song. Of course, I knew about Kiss when I was a kid, uh, but then it was um Um We're Not Gonna Take It.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, Twisted Sister, one of my faves. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I was like, oh my god, saying bad, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02We're not gonna that's right, that's right. Exactly. Actually, and funny story, I was just on the Monsters of Rock cruise and I dressed up like D Snyder on the cruise. Oh, nice, and it's hilarious. So if you want to see some silly photos of me dressed like D Snyder, go check it out with the big wig and everything. Is it on is it on your Instagram? Um, it I think I don't know. I'll I'll look, I'll see. I can't remember where I posted that, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, if you find any, send them to me and I'll try to slice them in here so that I will post the videos. Um cool. All right, so I'll answer this question. All right, so you've hit fire. Now um I know kind of in the intro to you, I made reference to um real estate holdings. Yeah. So was it strictly um real estate, or did you have like a mixture of real estate and stocks as far as like vehicles for retirement?
SPEAKER_02It was it was really a mix. So um that was one thing that I learned when I started reading books, and again, I started reading, you know, um uh investing books, right? And so when I started reading books, and even starting with like you know, Dave Ramsey's, you know, total money makeover or whatever, you you quickly realized that there was this class called real estate, right? There was always like a chapter or two or something about real estate. And I was like, man, that just sounds really interesting to me. And so then I would get specific books just on real estate, and that started with um Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And so I did Rich Dad Poor Dad, and then I was like, wait, okay, this kind of changes the way I started thinking. Then I got a few other, I think he had a couple other books, like the ABCs of real estate investing, and it just it snowballed from there, and so I'm like, okay, I think I'm gonna do this. And at 2017, I bought my first rental property. Okay, and I remember, man, it was uh, you know, I'm signing those papers, and you're kind of like butterflies in your stomach. You're like, Am I doing the right thing? I'm super nervous. Like, what? Oh my gosh, what am I doing? You know, and uh, but yeah, you fast forward then uh nine years later or eight years later, I had uh I had 10 residential properties, and that's what I had when I left left my day job. And at the time, you know, I wasn't using any of that cat, like any cash flow I made from my my residential real estate portfolio, all that cash flow would just go right back into doing like the next deal, the next real estate deal. I didn't really start to pay down that debt until later on, actually around COVID time. And so um I I basically was living very, very lean, right? I mean, I was a single guy, um, my expenses were really low. Once I got rid of all my debt, um, again, after living, after listening to Dave Ramsey and getting started there, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense to me. So I paid off my truck, I I paid off my house, I I I did whatever I could to get rid of my debt. Well, now I had the ability to invest in retirement accounts and brokerage accounts about 60 to 70 percent of my income.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02And so I did that for seven years, and so that's one thing that um that helped, right? I think I think real estate is a vehicle you can use to accelerate the path to Fi. It's not required. Some people don't even want to deal with it. I'm actually in the process of not dealing with it either.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you're liquidating.
SPEAKER_02I'm moving well, I'm moving to a different, I'm moving to to commercial real estate, which is a little different, but liv a little different beast. And uh I've learned a lot, and I think it's definitely a path um getting started with residential. It's in all honesty, relatively easy. A lot of people could do it, and it can start the path. But once you start to see what commercial leases can do, and and um yeah, anyway, it's just a little bit less risk on the on the landlord and the owner, and the upside is a lot more. Um, yeah, anyway, that's that's where I'm at.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so um interestingly, I bought my first uh rental property in 2017 also.
SPEAKER_03Oh, uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00What I did is that um I was originally in my my my journey, I started off with um stocks, so investing in stocks. Um, but I always kind of I guess my frustration was since I didn't completely understand it, I would get frustrated with the pullbacks. As far as the run-up, I was like, man, I was like, it's constantly and it I I didn't have the I didn't stop, but I I should have like doubled down on it. And so what happened is that I kind of kept my holdings where I was there and I started doing real estate. And in 2017, I I bought my first um uh bank-owned property. Um, I bought it off of um a site used to be called Hub Zoo. So I bought off an auction site and I and I got it. And I remember I used to do this thing where I used to call it flipping it to myself. So now they call it now they call it Burr, but I used to call it flipping it to myself. Yeah, so basically now I get into it, I saved up enough money where I would get it, and I was fortunate because I mean down here in in Jacksonville, I was able to get my first like true rental property uh for $49,000. I mean, it was it was a three, two on an acre and a half, two-car garage, all this stuff. It um I think I I got it, um, I put like 25 grand in it, and then like um, you know, you have to let it season for six months or let it season, uh, then it appraised at like 135, 140, something like that. So I was able to get like 75% out. So that was my initial and some more, you know. And the best part about doing that is that once you pull the money out, it's not a taxable event because you just you know refined it. So that's what I was like. So that's when I first started. And so I stayed on the real estate for a little bit, and then I was like, you know, I was like, then I need to go back and just like look at this, you know, these stocks again. So then I really under had a better understanding. I got into it. So just like you, probably when it comes to my portfolio, my holins, I'm probably 50-50 when it comes to uh I'm about the same. Yeah, so I am about that. So um you um so you spent nine years, uh, you hit fine number through a mixture of um equities and real estate. Uh then at some point you learned about the fire community. So when exactly did you learn about a fire community?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was probably it was actually relatively early on. I mean, it was probably like 2018 or so, like when I started learning about like how to budget and stuff, I realized that there are other goofballs that are doing this, you know, that that don't have debt and that are living super lean and um saving and investing a large percentage of their income. And so that's when I first discovered the community like through the podcasts, and I think that's when I first started going to Camp Phi was my was my first. Actually, I started documenting kind of my journey around 2017 with heavy metal money. I had some of the first blog posts because I started listening to all these others, and I wanted to. There were so many times I remember I'm driving my car listening, and I'm like, oh, but but I have this awesome story I want to share. Like, or I was like, oh my god, that happened to me too. You know, I wanted to participate. And and I was like, how can I do this? And so I started this crazy little stupid blog called Heavy Metal Money, and so I went to FinCon. That was my very first Fi event, and my blog was running for like six months. I had no clue of what I was doing, but I found out that not only are these content creators that are doing this, there's this whole community of people that are that are doing it. And then I went to Camp Fi. That was the one where I met just so many just brilliant people. Um, and that led to um in a way, it was it was a little bit overwhelming. Cause I remember the first campfire. I love Campfi events, they're smaller events, you know, you get 60 people or so. Um, there's some structured content, but it's also just hanging out, having fun, conversations, you know. And like here in the Midwest, we have one, and you know, you can go kayaking and and canoeing, and you could do um, you know, outside stuff. It's it's really fun. Um, and I remember, you know, I I was super new to to Fi and I I was like looking at, you know, I I I'm trying to think if I had a positive net worth at the time. I think I did. Um, but you know, I was in some some sessions about like withdraw like drawdown strategies and how to do tax efficient planning. And and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so over my head. Like, what am I doing? Oh my gosh, I was so I was frustrated and nervous, but everyone is so cool and there's no stupid questions. And you can talk, you know, talk to people, and that's what really helped me. Um, I guess embrace the Fi community. I wouldn't be here, I would not be where I am today if it wasn't for community. This community is so great. You want to surround yourself by those people with those people that truly lift you up and not drag you down. And uh yeah, so I definitely I wouldn't be here without the community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I I feel the same way, Chris. I look at um, like for instance, I know that there are a lot of Jaguar fans, me living here in Jacksonville. Um, other than like us rooting for the Jaguars, I don't I can't necessarily say I would really get along with every Jaguar fan. Uh but I'm hard pressed to think of a Fi event or gathering I've gone to where I have just not really, you know, aligned and really like been able to gel with just about everybody that I've met. Because I feel like it's just certain characteristics in us that if you're willing to like kind of take this journey, it's a it's a whole lot of other things, a whole lot of the boxes that you check that make you compatible with other people who are interested in doing this, you know. And so I just really um find it interesting um that you know, I think it's because we are when we when we even if we don't go back and talk about the wide the Wi-Fi, and typically the reason why we want to achieve financial independence really isn't so we can have all this flashy stuff, it's so that we can do stuff that's more meaningful to us. And I think that in itself just kind of shows a certain amount of uh humility and um kind of care that we have for our community and the people around us that kind of make us move in a particular way when we're even gathered together. So those are my thoughts around that. So yeah, no, I agree, I agree. Yeah. Um, one of the things I I may mention to you also was that um you gave some uh some kind of financial rules in uh an episode of Heavy Metal Money. And I was like, man, I feel like this is really good. So what I like to do is I'm gonna go through your money rules that you have, and if we can just have kind of like there, there are eight of them, just a brief conversation about each one of them because I think as though um you gave a good take on it, we can just have some dialogue around it. So your first your first money rule was start on the edge, learn the fundamentals and understand those basic things like asset classes before chasing returns.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think I think it's it's just it's important to I I'm definitely an advocate of understanding what you're investing in. Like, I don't want to just do like that's one thing where if people just say, I have a money guy, you know, I I let them do it, I don't pay attention, I don't know, they're doing it for me, right? And I'm not I'm not as a I'm not opposed to people having a financial advisor or some sort of financial professional or or uh a planner that helps you with a plan. Absolutely. If if you're not comfortable DIY investing, absolutely have someone in your corner, but have somebody that's helping you understand what you're investing in. So stand back and learn, right? Don't just go into you know the next GameStop meme, meme stock, you know, you know, or the next uh, you know, meme coin, the next crypto, whatever. I think it's important just to truly understand. And when I talk about like the fundamentals, it's truly understanding a little bit on on what what an index fund is, right? What those large cap, what those medium cap stocks are. Just, I mean, some basic fundamentals before you start understanding where you're putting your money. And I think that's the one thing that um I think some people kind of overlook, right? They're trying to look for the flashy, awesome, cool, what's the next big stock I need to find? Like finding that that needle in a haystack, but no, understanding what an index is and investing in this broad-based index funds over time. This is one thing that I learned. And this was actually from a Tony Robbins book. So when I first started learning this, I didn't re I always thought investing was for super rich people, and they knew something that we didn't because they were beating the market. But I learned in Tony's book that with you know doing index fund investing, you're not always trying to beat the market. You're trying to basically match the market, you're trying to just follow the market, and that'll get you where you need to go. And I mean, I remembered having this epiphany. I was painting, I was I was painting one of my rental properties, and I I had my headphones in and I'm listening to his audio book, and I'm like, I stopped and was like, wait a minute, let me back that up again. I was like, oh, wow. I mean, it just was the clouds parted and the light shined out.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, yeah, no, I I think that's great. And it is ultimately about the fundamentals. Um, and it's and to go back to where you said about people having, you know, um, like a um a financial advisor or saying, hey, you know, I got a money guy or a money person or whatever. I knew a guy, I was working with him trying to just kind of get him to understand the basics and like you know what, I'm just not doing that. So he decided to go and get um a money manager. And you know what the money manager did, Chris? Oh no, sold him life insurance. No, he didn't do that. All all he did was took his money, charged him a fee, and invested it in SP 500. I'm like right. Like, exactly. Remember that stuff I was telling you? I was like, now I was like, I gave it to you for free. Now you're trying to do it. Um, but unfortunately, I do know some people that who get, you know, kind of caught up in the whole the whole life insurance stuff and everything. I tell people often like, don't mix your investments in insurance. Just go ahead and just get some turn life and you'll be good. And then just take the rest of that money and put over there and invest in the stock market. Exactly. Definitely want to do that. And um, so that's cool. So that would that was rule number one as far as learning the fundamentals. Rule number two, financial literacy is spread through community, and we can all do this. And lifting someone else up doesn't slow your progress, it reinforces the discipline. We've talked a little bit about community, but anything you'd like to kind of share to that second rule?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that if if you're someone that's listening to this and you know, you you are obviously into personal finance, you you wanna you wanna reach five, perhaps. Um I think that it is, I don't want to say it's our responsibility, but I think it really is we need to help help others if if they want to be helped, right? I mean, you're not gonna force it on them, but you know, especially like the younger generation, right? I mean, maybe you want to, you know, teach your kids, or maybe you have a niece or nephew, you know, start with maybe gifting them a 529 plan. And you know, help help them understand those fundamentals, you know, help a friend budget if they want to. And you know, I I think it's also important too, you know, we're not all perfect. You and I have made mistakes, right? Share those mistakes that you've made. And, you know, rather than just trying to say, oh, look what I did, I'm like super awesome, and I made, you know, 16% gains last year, blah, blah, blah. Like whatever. You know, don't, yeah, don't, don't flex your your wins. Like be more like, you know, hey, I've made those mistakes too. We can do this together. I really think it is part of this community. And I mean, I've I've um I've helped a lot of people, and um, there is just something awesome when I get emails back saying that um, you know, they appreciate maybe like maybe it's my newsletter or a blog post, and they tell me that they put, you know, they opened their very first Roth IRA. And I was like, oh man, that's awesome. You know what I mean? Like, if I can help just one person. So I think I think it is, you know, pick picking up those people, surrounding your people with those people that you want to lift up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, there is part that money rule says it doesn't slow your progress. It really does. Yeah, there we can't have this limited kind of uh mind state um where there is so much money out there, you know, and it and it baffles if you totally I don't I think at one point I I think I saw a number about like the total amount of money in like the US economy, and it blew my mind. And so it you sharing with someone else how to do something is not going to um change your outcome. It is not if anything, you know, it's you're you're putting positivity out into the universe. You know, I I can't tell you the number of times that I've done something for someone and um something's come back to me. And I'm like, you know, I was like, I I a lot of times I just have to attribute it to me putting good out into the universe. And so and it just comes wrong. It's it's it's the rule of reciprocity when it comes to the universe. I mean, when you put positive out, positive just comes back to you. And so definitely the community is important.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And and to your point, I it's not that because I I've talked to people, right, that think that money is evil, right? Or you know, only rich people have money, and and if there's only so much, right? It's just it's it's this limited mindset, right? It it's basically they're they're they think that if if someone else has the money, someone else doesn't have it. But I'm telling you, there's enough for everybody.
SPEAKER_00It is tons. And I hear about people who make like these ridiculous amounts of money. I'm like, it I have a friend I was talking to him, and he's like, Oh, he's like, uh, I think he said he's like, Oh, I need I think he said 10 million dollars. I was like, brother, I was like, I don't think you understand. I was like, it's not a lot of stuff you can't do at two, three that you can't do at 10. I was like, I'm other than just the amount of money that you can give for like other causes, but as far as like as a personal like, and maybe it's just the way I'm built, I don't need a whole lot of stuff. So it's like that $10 million just didn't move me. I was like, okay, I was like, I understand what I need. Um, I'm able to free up my time, I'm be able to give my time to community, and that's really what's important to me. So that's definitely it. So if we look at the third money rule, is ego kills your portfolio, but discipline, patience, and consistency wins retirements.
SPEAKER_02100%. And I think I got this. This is more because of there's there's just so many oh man, there's just so much garbage on social media. You know what I mean? And so you could be the latest crypto bro or buy my course and I'll teach you how to invest in real estate or whatever it is. And it just, you know, if you keep it simple, you know, and you you do in the the boring, broad-based index fund over time, you're gonna win. Yeah, you know, you're gonna win. And so I just feel as though, you know, don't listen to the yeah, those, those large ego, like, hey, look, look what I did. And they're standing in front of their, you know, they're standing in front of their Lambo, uh, you know, saying that, oh, you gotta invest, you know, you gotta invest in these stocks, you gotta invest in this, or you know, and it what really what worries me now is you see so many that was like, oh my AI trader just made me this much money, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I just yeah, no, you know, and and the the thing about uh getting uh rich slowly is that it's not attractive, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00And a lot of times people don't want to look at that. I mean, even going back to your story, nine to ten years ain't that long. But some people, I guess if you're talking to a 20-year-old, they're like, that's half of my life. What are you talking about? That is true, yes. So it's hard for them to realize that, but I have a saying that fast money don't last long. Yeah, there you go. Oh, I love it. It truly doesn't. I was um talking at a um at a a company just this week, and I'll share with them statistics that 78% of this is according to the American Bankruptcy Institute, 78% of NFL players and 60% of NBA players face financial hardship once they stop playing the game. And that's why I always crazy. It's it's it's a crazy statistic, but it's like, okay, that's why, you know, and that goes back to fast money. A lot of these individuals went from not having much to just having a large amount of wealth and not really understanding, you know, just kind of some the fundamentals going back to number one. They didn't understand those fundamentals and understanding, like, you know what, when you get if you got a hundred million dollar contract, and understanding, you know, you got to pay agents and fees and everything else. We'll just say at the end of the day, you had 30 million dollars after that 100. Taking that 30 million dollars and investing it into a very secure, broad-based ETF, oh my goodness, that will fund you for the rest of your life easily. Yes, you know, but people don't know that, so you really don't want to have those egos.
SPEAKER_02They got to get the bling though, Nick. Oh man.
SPEAKER_00Well, the the one of the one players I really liked was uh Chad Johnson because Chad Johnson said he would have on uh imitation jewelry. Really? Yeah, he said just just because who he was, people thought it was real. He's like, This stuff was fake. He was like, I want to spend my money on that kind of stuff like that. But I mean he was yeah, so he literally he said it was fake jewelry. He was like, you want to, but they thought it was real because who I was, so that's it. So uh number four, we're gonna talk about cutting losses is a sign of strength and staying stuck to protect your pride. Well, I'm sorry, will um will produce financial self-harm. So basically, we we want to cut our losses so that we don't harm ourselves.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this this one. Um, the reason why I put this one in there is because I I've known, especially because I'm in the real estate world and I've invested in real estate, and I've done this myself too. It is so hard. We have this, it's human nature. We have the the the sunk cost fallacy, right? I've already invested so much time, so much money, so much energy or effort or whatever into whatever it is that you just you you you hold on to that thing. And I I remember I used to do this even when reading books or watching movies, and it was horrible, man. Like I would be, I'd watch a movie and I'm like, oh, this is so bad. But I'm already 30 minutes into it. I better, I have 30 minutes invested, I gotta watch this movie to the end. Yeah, like why would you do that? And so I started to learn about this cost fallacy, and I'm like, I'm taking my time back, I'm taking my energy back. And so I just had seen people, for instance, you know, hold on to uh a losing real estate opportunity, right? Maybe they have this money pit of a home, and that rental property is, you know, the repairs and the maintenance are, you know, they're just they're costing you money, right? Every month or something like that. But they still are holding on, even though, you know what, it's better, just cut cut your losses, right? And sell it and move on. So that's one of the things that I've really learned. And that's what I'm doing right now. I mean, I mentioned that I'm moving into the commercial space because the properties that I bought in 2017, 2018, they're not performing the way they were then, right? Insurance and taxes have both gone up 60%.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, the HOAs for those properties both I remember when I got into three of them, I got in the HOAs were like $150. Now they're $320 a month.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02And so all of my expenses have not kept pace with the actual rents. You know, and so that's one of the things where I've again, you you, yeah, I can hang on to them. They're they're gonna pay, they're gonna, it's gonna work, it's gonna work, Nick. No, cut your losses and get out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, a lot of times we hope that we can turn an L to a W. Yes, sometimes we can't. You know, sometimes we just have to let it go, and that is for sure. So we've uh we've made it halfway through our eight rules. So here we're gonna talk about number five. Number five is wealth isn't permission to gamble, it's a responsibility to preserve. Power without control leads to total destruction.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I think so many times we um especially if you get like like like a windfall, right? Or you or you you all of a sudden come into money, you you start to to to get it, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, now I have more to um part of its lifestyle creep, right? Right? We start to start to um our lifestyle just starts to get a little bit inflated or something like that. But the the key is is that if you can protect and preserve that it then starts to grow. You know what I mean? That's the thing. And so I do feel as though if we can preserve the stuff that we have started to earn, it, you know, rather than blow it on on crazy things. I mean, because that's the thing is I remember I was working with someone that just recently that um I was kind of coaching them through. They got started in real estate, they were doing flips, so they flipped one of their first properties and they had like a hundred grand.
SPEAKER_00Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_02And that was the most that they've ever had ever in their life. And it's in their in their bank account. And they're like, what do I do? You know, and that's where it was like, it's so easy to go buy your boat or buy, you know, go go spend that on those things. And so we we again we took our time, step back, and say, let's preserve, you know, let's preserve 50% of that for sure. Let's put in what our short-term and long-term goals is. Well, he wanted to do another flip. Okay, take part of that and put it towards the next flip. But there are some of that you have to protect, and it will then grow and build that that that fund that you need.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's extremely important. I know you definitely feel as though we work hard and we've earned it. And yes, we have, you know, to a certain extent, but we want to be responsible with it, you know. And part of what we have to do is um capital preservation, and that's really what we have to do. Once we got it, we need to hold on to it and really make it happen. So we definitely don't want to do that as far as wasting it. So we're gonna take a look at number six. Number six is respect the rule of money physics. You can't change the law of physics, taxes, inflation, and cash flow.
SPEAKER_02That's right, that's right. And the reason why I bring this up is because there's so many times that one, um, understanding that inflation is just eating away at your dollar. Yeah, right? We have to beat inflation. That's like you can't you can't change the laws of physics. So inflation's gonna always be there. Taxes are always gonna be there. I remember I was talking with actually it's um it's an it's a crazy story. Um, those of you may know um from the Stacking Benjamin's show, Joel Soul Sehai. And I remember I had him on my show, and he was talking about a story that when he first started um working as a financial planner, you know, he was making really good money at the time. And after like when he finally got time to do taxes, he didn't put anything away for taxes.
SPEAKER_03Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02Like all of a sudden he gets this crazy big tax bill. So it's just one of those things where we just need to be aware of your taxes. Again, some of that's already taken care of. Like if you're a W-2 employee and you have regular deductions, you can understand that. But for those like 1099 employees or whatever, just understand that taxes, you can't fight it. It'll always be there. The only thing, the only time it it may not be is if you're gonna be doing um like a uh a 1031 tax exchange in real estate where you can defer the taxes kind of indefinitely if you invest those proceeds. You know what? That's another thing, too, based on this, right? Is there are so many times that like when I was in the accumulation phase and I was buying properties, I remember I would meet with another investor and I'd be walking through the property, and they're telling me, oh, it cash flows awesome, man. You're gonna make so much money. And I'm like, I ran my numbers and I'm like, no, you're not, because they weren't putting any money away for taxes, insurance, capex, you know, the capex stuff like the roof and the water heater, um, standard, you know, maintenance and repairs, lawn care, snow removal, all the stuff you got to factor in when you're buying a rental property. And clearly they weren't doing that. So it was one of those things where inflation, taxes, those things, they're always going to be there, and we need to make sure that we don't ignore that because that will lead to disaster.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is unfortunately uh a necessary evil uh when it comes to uh taxes and inflation is real. And the thing is that one of the things that I talked to my wife about one of the toughest parts about getting old is that you remember how much stuff used to cost. You know, you're like, what? You know, this you know, when you're young, you see something, you know, you know, once you're out your parents' house and you have to start paying for stuff. You're like, you know, this is the first time you're seeing it, but you start to remember how things go, and it's like, wow, I I went to uh I went to top golf and a soda was five bucks. I'm like five bucks for a soda, right?
SPEAKER_02I know, I know one hundred percent. Dude, the other day, so just like today they were talking about gas prices on the news this morning, and you know, it's like four dollars a gallon or whatever. And I was like thinking, like, man, I remember when it was like not even a dollar, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_00And I remember you know driving around as a teenager, pooling our change together so that we could drive around, you know, and actually everybody being able to go somewhere with that pool of change, yes, exactly. Oh my gosh, yeah. First first gallon of gas I ever remember had to buy. I remember looking at it, it was 79 cents a gallon. Yeah, I was like, man, I'm like 70 nines. And I remember the first time I saw that one go up there. So I'm like, whole dollar for a gallon, though, right? You think I'm rich? Whole dollar, yeah. That's awesome. I would definitely go for a dollar gallon of gas now, it's for real. So we have uh we have two more uh rules to get into um put on the armor, the armor lets you stay in the pit longer, and preparation turns panic into patience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this one really was focusing on making sure you have some sort of emergency fund in place, right? It was really something that um it's not fun, you know, but it's it's so important to make sure that you get things like emergency uh funds that can help you when things go go wrong. I know um I when I first started budgeting, I remember putting money aside into an emergency fund, and you know, it had grown to, you know, I had you know about three months of emergency funds in there. And I remember one time I go downstairs to I think I just had to like re you know change the furnace filter or something, and I go downstairs in the utility room and what the there's water all over the floor. I'm like, oh my gosh. And I look and I'm like, my water heater is leaking. Like I'm like, oh man. So I turn off my water, I mean I I get it replaced, but the beauty here is that it wasn't some sort of catastrophic thing that I had to, you know, go into debt for. I had the funds already of already you know earmarked for emergency funds. And so I'm like, I'm gonna, you know, buy that water here, I'm gonna get it installed, and I'm just back where I was, and it it it wasn't a time to panic, you know. And so I think that's the biggest thing is just making sure that you have at least that cushion. Um, I know one thing that my dad told me when I was, I mean, I got my very first checking account when I was 16, and he said, I remember I had my first $500, and I remember he said, that's zero. Oh, wow. And I was like, Oh, okay. You know, that's an emergency fund. Yeah, and now I clearly like, oh, this is what it was for. I remember when I had to go buy this new water heater, I was like, This is what that emergency fund is for. Yeah, and so that was one of the main things I wanted to focus for that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, and it's good because when you have an emergency fund, it's a one-time event, really. I mean, you you get your you calculate it, you get it. Once you hit that mark, unless you want to expand that buffer, you don't have to constantly replenish your emergency fund until there's an emergency, then you have to replenish it, you know. So that's it. So, I mean, you can go ahead and create your emergency fund. You might go year, year and a half without ever having to touch it, you know. So that's the good thing about it, you know. So once you do it, you can set it and forget it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and hey, put that in a how you're saves account.
SPEAKER_00That's right, that's right. Gotta HYSA it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, I just looked my emergency fund.
SPEAKER_00Um, last year I made $468 in my that is that is nice when preparation can give you money, you know. That's a good thing, man. That's awesome. Um and number eight, um, money is just the multiple, excuse me, money is just the amplifier to your life. Bill Wells so you can live louder, freer, and on your own terms. Right on, man.
SPEAKER_02I I do believe that you know, being being uh having money, it does kind of um it reflects kind of who you are and your values. And you know, I I also feel as though we're not here to uh you know, like Nick and I are not here to say, okay, go scorched earth, don't spend any money, live on rice and beans forever, you know. That's not what we're trying to say, right? It's about freedom, it's about giving you options. You know, this is something where you can you can it walk away from a toxic work environment, right? It gives you to choose uh you know your time over money. You can live very uh intentional by by doing this, and it's about having fun. I mean, you do need to spend that money on those things you value. You like going to metal concerts, go to metal concerts. You know, are you into fitness? You know, make sure that you're get you know, you have your Peloton subscription, like whatever it is that's important to you, spend the money on those things that you value. Have fun with this, and it's gonna it's gonna change your life, it really is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. I uh I definitely agree with you on that. Money is just the amplifier to your life, so it'll just allow you to do more of what you desire to do. And it goes back to just having those those options. And I'll I'll say this and then we'll wrap up here, Chris. Um, I I volunteer with um several nonprofits in the area, and I'm and I have 20 plus years in IT and corporate, all those stuff, and I know that they could not afford to have someone of my skill set on their books. But me being able to volunteer my time freely allows them to be able to leverage whatever resources they have toward furthering their mission and what they're trying to do. And so just me having this financial freedom allows me to amplify my reach in doing good by being able to help those things out. And so just like Chris said, and I know Chris, I know you're very active in volunteering and charity work as well. Us having this freedom allows us to be able to do more good in society, and that's really what we like to do.
SPEAKER_02I love it, man.
SPEAKER_00That's so great. Yes, sir. Thank you. And Chris, we are getting ready to wrap up here. Sir, I thank you so much um for you coming on, sharing your story, sharing uh your inspiration um and the information that you have for our audience. For those who like to uh connect with you and possibly jump in the mosh pit. Um what's the best way to uh stay connected with you?
SPEAKER_02Right on. Yeah, the best place to go is my brand new overhauled website. It's all new, it's super awesome. Go to heavymetal.money and you can check out all my social media is there. Um my uh my podcast is there. Again, you can subscribe to the Extreme Personal Finance Show wherever you get your podcasts um or on YouTube. And I'd love to connect with you, man. Like, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you giving uh your your time here. Um, as we wrap up, um I want to remind everyone that if you have not subscribed to first of all, let me take a step back. I'm gonna encourage everyone listening here to definitely go out, um connect with Chris, uh follow him there on YouTube, um, follow him on um podcast player. If you're listening to this via podcast, I'm gonna ask you that if you've not subscribed to Everyday Money Heroes, that you will subscribe to Everyday Money Heroes on YouTube and also follow us on your pod fast podfast, podcast player of choice. And um in closing, I want to remind you to trust the process. Have a great day.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.