One More Year Syndrome: Why You’re Afraid to Retire Even When You Have Enough | 109

One More Year Syndrome: Why You’re Afraid to Retire Even When You Have Enough

You reached your financial independence number. The retirement calculators say you are ready. Your expenses are covered, your investments are in place, and you no longer technically need the paycheck.

So why are you still working?

This is known as One More Year Syndrome, and it can keep financially independent people working long after they have accumulated enough money to retire.

In this episode of The Extreme Personal Finance Show, I’m joined by personal finance coach and author Monica Scudieri, whose own case of One More Year Syndrome lasted four years. Monica had paid off $257,000 in debt, built enough wealth to become financially independent, and reached the number she had spent a decade chasing. But walking away still wasn’t easy.

Monica and I dig into why retirement is about much more than investment returns, withdrawal rates, and spreadsheets. The paycheck may provide financial security, but work can also provide identity, community, structure, purpose, and a familiar answer to the question, “What do you do?”

When those things disappear, retirement can feel less like freedom and more like stepping into the unknown. We discuss the fear of market downturns, healthcare expenses, inflation, losing reliable income, and wondering whether your retirement savings will really last. We also explore the emotional side of leaving a career, including the loss of coworkers, professional identity, daily routines, and the social connections that often come with a job.

Monica explains why some people continually move their financial goalposts. First, the goal is $2 million. Then $2 million becomes $3 million. Before long, “just one more year” becomes several more years, not because the math has changed, but because money has become the easiest excuse for avoiding a much harder question:

What am I retiring toward?

We also talk about:

• Why Monica continued working for four years after reaching financial independence
 • How a steady paycheck becomes an emotional security blanket
 • The difference between leaving work and moving toward a new life
 • Why retirement can create an identity crisis
 • How relationships can change when one partner retires before the other
 • The importance of purpose, community, and social connection after retirement
 • Why knowing your actual expenses matters more than replacing your entire paycheck
 • How side income can make the transition into retirement feel less risky
 • Questions to ask yourself before deciding to work another year
 • Why a successful retirement requires more than a strong portfolio
 • The danger of waiting for perfect certainty before enjoying your life

Monica also shares the emotional story of her friend TJ and his philosophy of creating both “or days” and “and days.”

Most days require responsible choices. You can do this or that.

But every once in a while, you need an “and day.” Order the fish and the chicken. Take the trip and see the concert. Build the memories while you still have the time, health, and opportunity to enjoy them.

Financial independence is not about escaping work as quickly as possible. It is about building enough flexibility to make intentional choices with your time.

Working another year is not automatically a mistake. It may give you more security, allow you to finish meaningful work, or provide time to build the next chapter of your life. The problem begins when one more year becomes a habit and you never stop to ask what the additional money is costing you in time.

Because the calendar keeps moving whether you make the change or not.

Follow The Extreme Personal Finance Show wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe on YouTube, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

One randomly selected Apple Podcasts reviewer will receive a copy of JL Collins’ The Simple Path to Wealth.

Contact Chris:

https://heavymetal.money

https://www.facebook.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://x.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://www.instagram.com/chrisluger

https://www.tiktok.com/@heavymetalmoney

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Resources and Links:

Grab Your Slice of Financial independence
 https://www.grabyourslice.com
 
Grab Your Slice of Financial Independence

by Monica Scudier
 https://a.co/d/0frxE2um

Contact Chris:
https://heavymetal.money

https://www.instagram.com/heavy_metal_money/

https://www.youtube.com/@heavymetalmoney

https://www.facebook.com/chrisluger

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

One more year syndrome, why so many of us can't pull the trigger on retirement. This week on the Extreme Personal Finance Show. Thank you everybody for joining me on this episode of the Extreme Personal Finance Show. This week, we have uh a personal finance coach and author of Grab Your Slice of Financial Independence, Monica Scudieri. Monica is back with us to talk about why it is that people can hit their number, they can be ready on paper, they can be, but then they also just keep moving the goalposts. So why so many people just aren't ready to walk away from work and into retirement? And Monica joins us because she experienced this herself. So I'm excited to talk through this and really kind of figure out why people do it, but then better yet, well, how can we change our mind and actually step into retirement? So Monica, welcome back to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Thank you very much. I am excited to be here. And it's great to see you again.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Yeah, absolutely. And one reason why I I I wanted to talk to you about this is I remember us talking before, and you know, you had mentioned in your own journey, you kind of had that one more year syndrome. And I know you mentioned hitting your number, but you were still kind of stuck for like four years or something like that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

It really was four years. So it's a it's an interesting thing. And so for me, you know, the uh the excuse or the reasons was because I I started my journey and it took me 10 years. So it was 10 years to get out of the $257,000 of debt for those that don't know me. Um I went through a divorce, I took on the marital debt, um, I had the kids, and um, and then I lost my job when the when the divorce was finalized. And so I went through unemployment. And so that's how my story started. And um, I learned boots on the ground the whole time um and tweaking and refining the process. But it took me 10 years and I was out of debt and I built financial independence. I reached my FI number and it took me 10 years. And I think part of it was for me, it took me four years because the first year was utter shock and disbelief. There is no way I could have been so much catch up in 10 years. Neither. I just I didn't believe it. And so it took me a year to convince myself. And in that year, I still put money in, you know, maxed out my 401k, put money toward my HSA, did all the things. Um and uh so then it that was one year. And then the second year, I'm like, okay, I think this is time. And then I had an opportunity at work, which is another reason. And it was it's it was similar to what I did. So in my previous life, I was an IT project manager, program manager manager assistant, that kind of stuff on back office stuff. And then my manager came to me and said, Hey, we're doing something new. Do you want to try being a scrum master? We'll send you to go get certified and pay you to study and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, ooh, I like the scrum master model of managing IT work. So I thought, well, I'm gonna stay another year and I'll do this. And so I had three teams and I was having a lot of fun with the teams. Um, but then I was thought, you know, this isn't, you know, like I could, but it was nice because I knew that if I didn't like it, well, then I could just say a few and and leave, you know. But I really enjoyed working with the teams. And so I stayed another year, and then COVID came along, and then I thought, well, you can't go anywhere, you can't do anything, and may as well stay here. And so I I gave myself goals at work of things that I wanted to achieve that were outside of what the company was asking of me. So I had a lot of contractors that reported to me and international and within the country. And I started mentoring them about, you know, how you get ahead, how you get your resume put together, uh, how you're gonna look for another job, um, and and so on and so forth. And I really enjoyed doing that. So then I stayed for two more years doing that. And then finally I was like, I realized that the way the um benefits package was structured for the company, they kind of left you like little, little breadcrumbs. Well, if you just stay another three months, we'll give you half the money for your HSA. Well, if you just stay another three months, we'll give you another year for your pension. Oh, if you stay for, you know, all these little things. And at some point I just decided I I I don't care anymore. It's not not worth it, you know. And so so that was that was my four years of one more year syndrome, if you can imagine.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

And that was that was what I was gonna ask. You know, looking back, do you think it was well, it wasn't really fear. Was it more like identity? Or maybe it was just something else entirely like you enjoyed working with those contractors, you enjoyed doing something new.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, you know, so there was, no, there was definitely a component of fear. I mean, my kids were in high school getting ready to go to college. Um, I sole provider for their college education. Um, and you know, how am I going to do I have it enough? Am I going to be able to cover that? What if there's a downturn? What if, you know, so all those what ifs. And so, as a good project manager does, you think about all the things that are risky and you start mitigating them one by one and grouping them as high, medium, and low. So I just, you know, use my skills or something else. And after a while, I thought, you know what, I have there were other things that I I wanted to do. And that started to um increase and my work was less satisfying. And so as I started to do this, um, I started to make plans. And then I had an accountability partner to help me to really pull the trigger. Um, but you know, there was definitely fear. And so, you know, like that paycheck has, you know, that my one little paycheck has pushed me through all kinds of things, even when unemployment always had money set aside out of every paycheck because you just never knew what was going to happen. And um, knowing that I wasn't going to have that, even though I had rental income, you know, rental income is great, but it's great when it comes in. But when pipe burst, when the you know what I'm talking about, HVAC, foundational, you know, I mean, it it could be a bust year. You don't know. So it's not money that you can, you know, hang your hat on and rely on. Um, but your paycheck, whether you have a bad day or a good day, you're still gonna get paid. Um, and so, you know, I I just decided to tell myself that I'm gonna quit this job and I'm gonna go out and do my thing. And if it falls apart and I need money, I'm just gonna go find another job. And then that'll be the end of that. And, you know, having a sense of how much I needed every month and then what were the bigger expenses coming up and making sure I just I had all of that covered, um, you know, to to the where it made sense for me as a as a single person, um, all of those things contributed to ultimately uh quitting.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Right, right. That was gonna be like my next question too. Like, was there a specific like trigger or something that you stopped saying just one more year? But yeah, I entered it. Like when the job satisfaction started decreasing, right? Yeah. It was like that was the kind of the thing that pushed you over the line, huh?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

It it really did, you know. But at that time, and you know, just to paint the full picture, I was in a relationship. Um, we were together for 11 years and we lived together. Um, he was a fantastic parent uh to my kids. Um, and then you know, things didn't work out, but you know, he had a hard time knowing that I didn't need my paycheck because he did. He needed his paycheck. And I think that that was really hard. And it was, you know, it it weighed on me a little bit because I didn't, you know, like it in part of me, it's not like it's my responsibility to make him feel better, but I did, you know, it did definitely cause, start to cause some friction where I I have money and he didn't. And there's nothing that's going to close that gap. He didn't want to do any of the things that I was doing.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

And so, you know, how do you how do you address that? Like he was very old school, and you know, if I'm not helping, then what am I what am I doing here? And I'm like, I don't need you to help me financially, but you're the person I want to see in the morning, first person, and the last person I have when I go to sleep. And, you know, and that to me was enough to have just a partner, but for him it it was not. And so that caused strife uh for us. And then ultimately he made some poor decisions that I didn't appreciate.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

So and that's that was something that I I didn't even think of as someone that is going through that one more year syndrome. I, you know, if you are in a relationship and you have another person, yeah, what is that like? And um that that's always fascinates me on how you to communicate that, how to work together on, like you said, if one person needs the paycheck and one person doesn't, that is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah, yeah, you know, and we weren't married. Um, and there's you know, there's no common law here for, you know, in this particular state in most of the country there isn't, but it still impacts the relationship, you know. Um, when one person can do so much more than the other, there sometimes can be that um resentment, you know, um, and jealousy or anger. Um so it, you know, whether you're married or not, it it it it plays a role, whether you know it or not. And so having those conversations and just being on the same page about, you know, how you feel about things and what matters, um, you know, is is pretty important. Right. But ultimately I ended up quitting my job and I never looked back. You know, like to me, it was yeah, it was definitely the best thing I ever did for myself.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

That's great. Good for you. And and I think so in your coaching practice, so again, being a being a coach, what do you think are some of the most common reasons that you you would see if you have somebody that maybe they have met their their fine number, right? Or they're they're ready. I should say that they're not ready, right? Like they can be ready on paper, right? Yeah. What are some of the reasons you typically, even though the math says you're ready, you could probably retire. Yeah. They don't. Yeah. What do you think, what do you think holds them back?

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So there are so many things, and it could be a combination. Really, it's usually a combination of things. Um, so sometimes they look at the money and when they first realize they have enough to retire, and they are in disbelief. And so they may go the route of running it through several different financial products that are out there that are wonderful to see. Are they all going to tell me the same thing? And they run catastrophic situations just to basically make them feel better if this is going to work. And then they may even go so far as to hire a financial advisor to run through everything. And there are wonderful financial advisors that if you pay them for a project, you know, a flat fee or a few hours, um, they are more than happy to run through all of that and just stress test the situation. Um, and so that is a big piece. But then once you get past that, then it turns into well, work is, I realize work really is my identity. My whole community is at work. Those are my people. And that's one of the things that I did not realize is when I quit my job, not that all of my people are at work because I had so many different jobs. I have people all over the place and all over the country and and and world at this point. Um, but what I realized is that I quit and they were all happy for me. However, I I had to find different friends to travel with, to go out to lunch on a Wednesday, to go walking in the morning on a Thursday morning because it's nice. Um, because they're all working, you know. And they can't, they can't take, you know, like last year I did I have a friend in the Philippines and we spent three weeks and went all around Greece and went to the islands and, you know, and hung out in Athens. I had friends, other other friends there and visited with them. I did some solo traveling, you know. Um, but they could do that because they were all retired people. But but most of my friends, like my friends in college and stuff, they're they're all still working and you know, don't have the finances to do that. Man, they don't have the interest to do a three-week vacation anyway.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

So well, and I I will I will say, I mean, in in my situation as well, I mean, that's one of the one of the biggest things that I missed when I retired was just the the missing of that that my work community, my work friends, you know. Um, I was from tech and we're all a bunch of nerds, and so things that I could typically nerd out about with people. Um, you know, I I just I kind of missed that. Um and so um I'm doing my best to again be connected with a new community. I mean, I still am in touch with some of those people, but um, like you said, I think um community was a huge thing that may may prevent them, especially like you mentioned, identity, right? So, like, um, you know, if if like who am I if I'm not that person with this title or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Right. Yeah, you know, and and really here in the States, you know, you do have when people talk, you know, you meet somebody, they that's one of the first things they ask you is what do you do? And even if they don't ask you that, or you know, what do you do or how, you know, a lot of times, you know, that's what that's the default. Oh, I'm a IT project manager, or I'm a I mean, even now I still do it. Oh, I'm a, you know, I don't leave with I'm retired. I lead with, I'm an author, I'm a personal finance coach, I'm a real estate owner. Um, but yeah, because otherwise, you know, they're like, what do you mean? You're retired that you you're not in retirement age. You're not gonna see that for a while. And so sometimes it can be uh awkward and uncomfortable. And it's not because you did or said anything, but it does make them go, What am I doing wrong? And it brings out insecurities in the other person. And so sometimes that happens. And I thought I think that you know, we do that just to, you know, kind of make it all easy when you first meet someone.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

But you know, but it is kind of sad. Like in our in our society, so many people, I mean, they Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was one there that was right with it. Like I was always that systems engineer for years and years across multiple companies. And if I wasn't that, then who am I? Yeah. I don't know, I'm just some dude. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah. And that's that is, you know, and I'm glad you brought that up because that is a big reason why when sometimes when people retire, it it'll might go two months and they're like, I've already cleaned out the garage, I've spring cleaned the whole house, I've done all the the trip doors that I needed to that have been sitting around that I haven't touched. And now what? I don't know, you know, like their friends are all working. And so it's not uncommon for people to go back and find a contract job and go back to work and then stay there for three months and go, what was I thinking? I hate this. I left here for a reason. And so it is a crisis of identity of what do I do, which is why it's so, so, so important that before you quit, one of the things that has to be done, aside from getting your money in order, but is is it's it's there's a there's a big difference running away from something or leaving something versus moving toward something. Because retiring from a job is you're closing a chapter. You know, it's just like when the kids move out and you're an empty nester, you're closing a chapter, and so you're moving on to a new chapter. So yeah, it's sad you're closing that chapter, but it's exciting because you have a new one and there's a blank page. And so you need to start filling that out of what am I gonna do with my time? How you have to find purpose. I mean, and so, and that's one of the things that I've learned, especially being in the fire community with those that have are retired, those that are not. But at the end of the day, you you need purpose. You need something that gets you up in the morning, that gets you excited. It can't just be pickleball every day, you know. Um, and that may be real estate, that may be working part-time at a nonprofit, that may be I do a lot of volunteer work, I do a lot of free stuff. Um, and and because that's my purpose. And that's what gets me up in the morning and gets me excited.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

So, do you think that there are some that delay retirement because there's fear of unknown, they're not emotionally ready. Yeah. You just kind of use money like money as the excuse, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, you know, yeah, that's why they move the goalpost. They're like, well, I made my five. Well, if I made two million, I can make four million. If I made four million, I can have six million. And then it's never that's never enough, you know, um, because they're avoiding. They're avoiding because they it's too much unknown. They have no plan. Maybe their spouse is not ready to retire. I met one couple, they were so darling. So they are very much in their, I think now they're in their 70s, but when I met them, they were in their 60s. And the wife retired, but she worked part-time, you know, like dentist office, you know, uh assistant kind of thing. And her husband was working full-time and he is high energy, up five in the morning, all day, move, move, move, get in the, you know, she's not that person. So two days a week, she'd she'd go to work, you know. And so when he retired, she she sat him down and she said, You need to find something to do. You cannot be home. And so he did. He found just another job and just, you know, work in the mailroom. Um, but it'd get him walking around the building and talking to people. So it burned off a lot of energy. And then they, you know, after three years, he was let let go. And then she was like, You need to find so what they ended up doing was he found part-time work, but on opposite days of hers. So that there's she gets two days at home where it's just, you know, copy and read her book, and he's out of the house, and then she's out of the house and he's home doing whatever, and then they have time together. And so a lot of you it really is it it sounds funny, but there is some planning involved in retirement. And like it's not, you know, like it's a new retirement, really, because you know, it's not like you retire in your 70s and then you're in a rocking chair watching life go by because you don't have energy. Now people are retiring earlier. People are working six months and trying out mini retirements and work, you know, with taking retirement for six months. And while you have the energy, while you have the interest, the passion, and and and so you fund these things so that you can have this this really new definition of what retirement is. And and that is really, really important, you know. But a lot of people, because it's fear, so they avoid the conversation, they avoid it with their friends, they, you know, don't want to you know, like they just don't they'll they it's like they're running, you know, always running and don't want to have don't want to have that talk. Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

How would you typically help a client out in like figuring out what those next steps are? If you can see that okay, we they're you know, they've they've met the number, their expenses fit with what they could, you know, they have enough assets to to sustain them and and what their goals are, do you I guess what kind of uh exercises can you do to have those people truly pull the trigger and stop doing that well, maybe next year I'll retire. Maybe next year I'll retire.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah, you know, and and there are definitely some exercises that that you can do. So, like one question I like to ask people is um if if this is the life you would wish for your kids. And uh sometimes I get a very quick absolutely not. I do all this sacrificing so my kids can have better. But you know, a lot of times kids, they they'll end up doing what you ended up doing because that's what they see, that's what they know and is familiar. And it's not about a right or wrong thing or for them to do better, but they're gonna emulate. They see they're better at seeing what you do and how you handle things versus what you tell them to do, you know. Um, another question I like asking is um if if you didn't need if the money was not a reason, if money was no no factor, would you do this job for free? You know? And yeah, and a lot of times it's it's no, sometimes it's yes because they love it. Um, but it's it's you know, looking inward. And I tell them, I'm like, there's no right or wrong to any of it, you know, but it's but but think about that. If you if you weren't getting paid, would you still be coming in every day? A lot of times they're like, hell no, I wouldn't be coming in here. It's a place sucks. You know, I mean, management's awful. They never give me a raise or always give me a hard time, blah, blah, blah. Um, you know, but so those are the things I asked them to think about. And then, you know, if if you could do anything, what would it be? And I so I had a I had a client who we had that conversation because she was working and she did love her job. But she told me, she goes, I do love my job and I love my clients. She worked with a lot of kids. She said, but I told her, I said, if you could do anything, what would it be? And she looked at me in like this little devious smile, and she goes, I want to go back to school and get my law degree because I want to work on laws that protect kids and help, especially neuro the neurodivergent population, and put laws in place to help help them. And I said, Well, let's make a plan and let's move toward that because the her death the debt was not a problem. Very minimal amount of debt. She had a great paying job. Her husband paid twice as much as she did. They had no kids. They weren't planning on having kids. So I said, let's make a plan. And we did. And it took a year. And she started applying. I said, just apply. Let's just see what happens. Let's she's like, but it's so expensive. And I said, well, you know what? There are grants. There are ways around that. You know, like let's let's just see. And she ended up going to a law school in Chicago. She's one of the older people in the class. All of her classmates are all, you know, coming out of out of, you know, getting their bachelor's and whatnot. And but she said, I she goes, I work so hard, the days are long, but I've never been happier. And she she says it all the time. She's like, that's it's because you gave me that. And I tell all my friends, Monica is the one that gave me that. You know, but it's because we, you know, we get so busy that we don't take the time to think about that. Like the clients that I have, when we first start out, the very we don't start with money. We talk about what brings you joy.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

And, you know, more often than not, it's family, it's hanging out with friends, it's having your health, you know, it's these these simple pleasures that we we forget, you know. And so then when we look at their spending, then if the question becomes, how is having food delivered, you know, for a thousand dollars in a month adding value? Is is adding value, it does it bring you joy. Right. And they're like, I had no idea I spent that much, you know. But that's the idea is that it's it's those baby steps that we start to take because we need to get that nailed down. But also we're working toward what would your life look like if you were financially independent. And so it's like I I work two sides, you know, like this is what's important today, this is the goal of what they want, and how are we gonna get there?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

I like you know what you said about asking your clients, like, you know, if you would do this job for me or whatever. And that just reminded me of uh a Steve Jobs quote that he said something about how looking in the mirror. And so I just pulled up the quote here. It says, For the past 33 years, I've looked in the mirror every morning and I ask myself, if today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I'm about to do today?

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

And if whenever the answer has been no for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. And I just I've always remembered that, like, you know, that's yeah, you gotta take those things. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah. And that I love you brought that up because that's the last question I usually come up with. Because, you know, not to be morbid, but we're all gonna die. We're all gonna die at some point, you know. Um, and you know, none of us have a crystal ball. Um, and so, you know, like in the morning, sometimes I sit there and I think and I go, if today's my day, would I be happy with what I've accomplished in so far? Yeah. And that, you know, that's a real tell of what could I what is the one thing I could be doing better? And really just thinking about that, you know, a lot of times people don't even want to think about that they're gonna die. They don't have a will, they don't have a trust, they don't have any kind of paperwork. And, you know, if when I talk to when I talk to lawyers, they say the big reason is because they're afraid that if they do the paperwork, that death will come sooner. Like I don't know. I think the opposite. I'm Murphy's Law, you know. If I do it, it's gonna be forever before I need it.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Right. It was funny. I was listening to a podcast the other day, they're talking about worry and about how humans that that always worry about things. It was interesting because they said there are some people that truly feel that they worry to put that bad thing off. So if they stop worrying about it, then that bad thing will happen. And it was just it was a very interesting thing that uh some humans do. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

That is interesting. And you know that like uh my son and I, we were just this morning, we were talking about the things that we focus on. And I was telling him that, you know, where energy goes, that's that's the direction you're going to move toward. So, right? And so, like I gave him an example. If I say, you know, um, I don't, I don't want to be alone, I don't want to be alone, I don't want to be alone, alone is what you're going to be because that's what you're focused on is being alone. But if you change it and say, I I want to be part of a community, I want to be part of a community that loves to travel, I want to be part, I want to be in a relationship. I then those opportunities, I'm not saying that's gonna all happen together, but the opportunities present themselves and you have a chance to think about, you know, like move in that direction. And I do the words that we say are are powerful, you know, and and just having, you know, that it's and the more specific you can be, the more likely that is what will come into your life. True, you know, and you know, something recently, um, I don't know if you ever listened to Diary of the CEO podcast, they were talking about um, you know, uh selling yourself short. And and that's one of the things I think that, you know, we do as as humans is we sell ourselves short because we don't know what we're capable of, because we're scared. You know, there's always that fear factor, right? And so it's just like with one more year, you're afraid to move forward. But, you know, he was saying how we need to sell ourselves long. And because really the only thing that's keeping you from doing things is you, you know. I mean, if you quit your job because you're financially independent and you go and you make yourself a list of 50 things that you've never done before, like go bookbinding or go water skiing or, you know, take a, you know, follow your favorite band around because they're on tour this summer, you know, like do the things. I tried golfing. I've never golfed before, and I tried that. And nope, yeah. So I mean, I I'm like, I don't know. I don't know enough about it to say yes or no. So, you know, so I challenge myself to go and try things that I I mean, I'm a little scared, but I do it anyway. Like I did tandem jumping. Oh my God, there's a funny story with that, but I did it. I'll never do it again. But I did it, you know. Good for you. That's awesome. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh my God, it was. I highly recommend it, you know. And the thing is, I went with a friend of mine, um, and he he didn't know nobody wanted to go, but he came with me. He was like, I've never done it, but I'll go. And there were so many people there that day. Um, and so we ended up getting moved to the last group. And the last group were all people who are experienced, so they are not tandem jumping. And so because we were new, we wanted to go at the, I think it was like 7,500 foot level, which is the the lowest you can do. But we were the only two people, and it was the end of the day and it was sunset, and the pilot said, Hey, uh, you know, it's been a long day. I'm just gonna go up to the 10,000 foot and then everybody go. And I'm going, you're what? And and the guy that I'm, you know, because they match you with height, right? So the guy that is I'm partnered with, he's like, Oh, you're gonna be fine, you're gonna be fine. And I'm like looking at my friend, going, he's like, You better jump is all I know. You had better be right behind me. And I'm like, I don't think I'm gonna do it. I don't think he's like, You better do it. So he he goes before me and he looked at me again like, you better be not coming back with the plane. So he goes and I'm there, and the guy is, you know, they're pinned behind you. And for those of you that don't know about tandem jumping, the person behind you has the uh parachute. Okay. You are held with these two metal pins that are here on your shoulders and a couple of plastic ones down here so that your bodies are aligned. So there's no moving around. And I said, let's go backwards. And he goes, No, no, no, you need to go forward, you need to see everything. And I'm like, I do not want to see any of this. So he's like, Look, you have to do it. He goes, I've never had any any of my people come back with the plane, so you're not gonna be my first. So fine. And so, you know, you jump and they tell you don't open your mouth because bugs and air and so, but of course, I did because I was gonna start screaming. And then my I have big cheeks, and so my whole mouth went poof.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Tell me they got a photo of that.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Oh my god, no, God, no. And if it were, I wouldn't even, I wouldn't admit to it. But that's not even the worst part. So the worst part is so embarrassing, but I'm gonna tell you anyway, is that um we're so we're we're free falling, right? And he's telling me, he goes, Do you want to pull the ripcord? And I'm like, I'm so scared. I I couldn't, Chris, I could not even move. I was so scared. And I'm like, no. And he goes, come on, you can do it. And I'm like, no, no, no. And when we're having this argument, free falling. And so finally he's like, I said you do it. He's like, Okay, look, I'm gonna do it. And I'm like, go ahead. And so he pulls it, and all of a sudden, everything is quiet and it's so peaceful. And I'm looking, and there's the sunset, and like it's just it's so picturesque. And then is the point that I realize, like a cat, my hands were behind me, latched into his butt. And I was like, I mean, I think that if we didn't have layers of clothes, I would have left marks for sure because I was that scared. And I I basically my hands were back there, and I'm like, are my hands? And I squeezed and I'm like, oh my God. And I said, Um, are my hands on your butt? And he goes, Yes. There, he was so irritated. And I said, I'm so sorry. I said, but until we get closer to the ground, I am not letting go. And that's all I could reach. So that's not the worst of it. So it just, it was so bad. So we finally, we made it, we made it down so fast that my friend was still coming down. Like we were on the ground, and he was just behind us, even though he had gone first. Then, so then we, you know, we unlatch and I said thank you. And I run to my friend and we're hugging, like we've we've done this thing. And then I look back to wave at the guy that and his girlfriend apparently runs the front office, and she was there with binoculars and was so mad. She gave him an ear full. And he was like, You could see him going, What do you want me to do? Like she was there and holding on, and she was scared, and I don't know, and it's not my fault. You know, like you could see all the the hand motions, and I was just like, I hope they stay together, but I just I'm sorry, I could not, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

But yes, but that you would think that would happen more often. Yeah, you know, or grabbing onto his butt, you would think that would happen every so I would think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

I would think so. But the point is to do new things, to try new things. And even though it's scary, you know, like now I did it, but now I can say I will never do that again. It is not for me, but I wouldn't be able to do that unless I've gone out and tried. And so just just try stuff. I mean, like, even if it's, you know, a girly thing or a guy thing, like, you know, go and learn how to work on a car. Like one summer, my high school sweetheart and I, we we worked a whole engine the whole summer, you know, we put in new, you know, spark plugs and battery and you know, alternator and switched out the tire, like all kinds of stuff. And, you know, not just the basic oil change. And it was fun, you know, and I learned stuff and you know, so I mean, like, and that's that all that stuff goes into that that one more year syndrome is is you got to be excited about something, you know, and so and if you're married all the times that those people are putting something off because they say, Oh, I would just get so bored, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:00

You know, like I have nothing to do. That doesn't have to be the case, right? You can basically you can find stuff to do, you can create create these things. Do you think that there are like I was thinking about this too, because I was thinking that you know, we talked about those people that keep moving the goalposts, they want to accomplish this thing, they they've they've met their number, yeah. They keep delaying it. Do you think that there's people out there though that also are kind of chasing their moving target, they're moving the goalpost without even knowing it? You know what I mean? Like you think that they probably could, but you know, it it's you know, they're they just they keep on thinking that they just need more, they need more, maybe it's financial security, whatever it is, but they're not really sure that they're doing one-year syndrome.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

I don't know. Yeah, there is something to be said for that because you know, you could sit there and go, I have the money I think I need. But but then there's all these external things like market volatility that you don't have control over. There's inflation, there's healthcare costs, you know. I mean, like all these things that every year it's, you know, it's a big surprise bag of what's gonna happen. And, you know, so that, you know, and the way to the way you mitigate it is that you have, you know, you know what your core that you need, you know, a roof over your head, clothes on your back, and you know, food on the table. And, you know, there like I have lots of things that I do that are extra, you know, but I don't have to do those things. And if God forbid there was a big, you know, kerflupple and I needed to go back to work, I could, I could, you know, reel it all in to basics. Um, and that's the thing, you know, is that you know, you you can even with things that are out of your control, you can still plan for those things. You can still, you know, but yeah, those like those types of things definitely scare people, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

And then, you know, like, but sometimes it's like, you know, what is what is real security? You know, like people say, Oh, I would love to retire. I'd quit tomorrow if I could. But they say that because they know they can't, you know. But pe for people that have the money, it's you know, sometimes that's just that paycheck is just that's that's their security blanket. Sure. Yeah, you know. But it's kind of funny because um there is no job security. I mean, really. I mean, we've heard it so many times in corporate America, you go to go go home on a Friday, you come back on a Monday, and you're greeted with an email that says you're no longer work here.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Dude, a buddy of mine I just had lunch with a buddy of mine 16 years, and boom, he's gone, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it happens for sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Absolutely. That's why, you know, I tell people it's if you are working um and your only one income stream is that paycheck, that is extremely risky. You know, and that it's important to start other things, to have other income streams. You know, it's you need more than just social security and a pension and you know, like dabble in house hacking. Like I did a talk with the Dow Janes, and that was one of the things we talked about is building these income streams when you go from two incomes to one. And, you know, we'd opened up the chat and I was like, you know, what are you what are some of the things that you guys are doing or thinking about doing? And it was incredible. Like one lady, she was like, I have a house, I rent it out, I get income from that. Another one was like, I rent a room out because I'm near a college. One lady was renting her driveway out for $100 a month. Um, another one, she goes, wow, she goes, Oh, I have an RV hookup. And I'm like, cha-ching. You know, I mean, you know, in there's really no limit to ways of making money these days that would easily cover, you know, and that's the thing that people think you want to cover your paycheck, but what you should be thinking about is covering your expenses. And that's a whole other conversation, which go adds to the fear because what they realize is they don't even know what their expenses are a lot of times. And you need to know that and what it's going to be down the road as best you can. It doesn't have to be perfect, but you do need to have a sense of what that is, and I think that would go a long way for people to to know that you know they're they're gonna be okay. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

I know I reached out to you asking about having this conversation because I was just recently at a graduation party for um one of my cousin's kids, but one of my aunts was was there and we were having a conversation, and she she's 62, she's at early retirement age, and she's still working, plans on continuing to work, and as we were sitting there talking, my cousin says, Yeah, I've been trying to get my mom to retire because she'll make more money on Social Security than what she's making right now working. And she just won't, you know, she again has this one more year syndrome. And I I mentioned to her, um, I just I asked her some some basic questions and she just didn't know. She just assumed, like, well, this is what I'm supposed to do. And you work until 65 or 67, you're gonna make whatever 30% more on Social Security. But if you're already making more than you're making now, and you have enough more than enough than what you need to live, I just wonder what is keeping you still not. Right. Maybe she really likes her job. I don't know. I did mention, hey, have you ever read the book Die With Zero? Like, go build those memories, you know. But yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

And you know, and it could just be, you know, maybe there's a health thing where they're like there's this security that if she's working, like I I worked with a guy when I was in IT, um, and he was diagnosed with um not pancreas, but a type of cancer. And he was stage four. I mean, so he knew that there was no coming back from it. And, you know, so he and I, he was on my team for one of my projects, and you know, we both happened to come on early. And I said to him, I go, you know, what why aren't you why don't you quit? And he goes, I need the health insurance. What am I gonna do at home? Um, this'll take care of my kids and my wife. And I I like the guys I work with. You know? And so he's there maybe a few more months. And you know, he had a great attitude, at least forward facing. But it it just struck me that I mean, I I've never loved any job so much that I wouldn't want to, you know.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

It's like I I had a, you know, and I think, you know, you know that's the story about the and and days and or days that I I told on the at the on my presentation. So I had a friend and his name was TJ. And TJ and I have known each other over 20 years. Um he's absolutely like a little brother to me. Um, and he he always called me kiddo, which got on my last nerve. But that's that's you know, which of course is what you do when you're when you're the little brother.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Um so now I'm kidding, kiddo.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah, I hey kiddo. Um, and you know, and so you know, he had um he had an Apple phone and he was always giving me a hard time about because I have um I well I don't have an Apple phone. So he would do these group chats with my kids and send me articles about why, you know, Apple is superior, you know, over my little, my little Samsung over here. And um, and we just go back and forth all the time and teasing. And so when I went through the the breakup, um he he flew out and he lived on a West Coast. And I said, you know, why are you have to fly out here just for the weekend? And he's like, No, let me come out. He goes, you know, because what is what is an airplane, but just a glorified bus in the air. He goes, that's all it is. He goes, You're not that far away. And and so he did. He came out and I was changing the alarm system in the house. And so my my daughter came over, and the two of them were like, We we'll set up this alarm system. And of course, he was giving me crap because he was like, I could have had this done in an hour if you had an Apple phone, but no, you've got to sit here and deal with your crappy little Samsung, and so it's gonna take me four hours to do this job because I'm running into these errors. So we get through all of that, and I say it's a poor man that, you know, uh, you know, blames the tools.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

So I was just saying, if you introduced me to TJ, I think he and I would be two P's in a pod.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Two P's in a pod. Yeah. I mean, he he was he definitely, you know, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, so edit it out if I'm not allowed, but um, he definitely grabbed life by the balls. Like he was like, let's let's do it. Y'all, there's a birthday. I'm gonna, I'll get on a plane, I'll come for the weekend for your birthday party. And that's awesome. Yeah. And let's let's do it. Let's do it. Um, everything is for right now for today because tomorrow's not promised. So we we go to dinner and with the kids, and uh, and and uh TJ says to my kids, he goes, So what are you guys having? What are you guys gonna order? And my son, my son is 6'2, he's 190 pounds, and he's got an appetite that goes with the the large body. Um as a matter of fact, he got his uh costume for his birthday. We're gonna we're gonna go to GalaxyCon. Um, and he's like, Oh, it's too small. And I go, Did you get the extra large? He goes, I got extra, extra large. I go, maybe you need to go to Sasquatch. I go, he did not, he did not like that. But um, but anyway, so we're at this dinner and TJ asks what we're having. And my son goes, Well, I don't know, I'm thinking between I don't remember what it was, but it was like, you know, between the fish or the chicken. And he goes, Why don't you just get both? And my son looks at me and he goes, Don't look at your mom, look at me. He goes, just get both. And he keeps, he looks at me and he's like, Don't worry about your mom. She's getting a margarita, don't worry about her. You know, he goes, and and um he so he goes, Look, let me explain something to you because put your menu down. He goes, in life, there are and days and there are or days. And he goes, the truth of the matter is that most of your days are going to be or days because we have to be responsible. You have to make decisions, you know, am I gonna clean up this house because mom and dad are coming over, you know, or am I just gonna go sit in the back and hang out with the dog? You know, and so you have to make decisions. decisions. Um, but today is an and day. And an and day, we get to do anything and everything. He said, and so, you know, and so for me, when I I think about that story, um, it it's uh it really strikes me, especially when we talk about one more year, because in a sense, it almost doesn't matter if you're building your financial independence number, you're already retired or you're in it. Um it's it's so long as you have those and days because some people really do love their job. Some people really, you know, enjoy that. Um, and that's okay, you know, and that's the beautiful thing about early retirement or, you know, working six months and then taking six months off. Or I mean, I've met people that never had a nine to five. Um I mean, TJ worked worked crazy, but he loved his team. He was amazing. And I I share that story. And the one thing I didn't share when I did that presentation about TJ, and that I I like telling stories about him, is because he and I talked almost every single day, multiple times a day. We texted, we talk on the phone. Um, as a matter of fact, uh he sent me, so my birthday's in the fall, and he uh sent me uh my birthday present in the summer. And I said, So why you why you sending me my birthday present? And he goes, Um, because I want you, because I know, because he knows I'm a very curious person, and I I I have to know. I have to know what's in the box, and it's going to drive me crazy. And he goes, and I know that you're not gonna open it because it's not your birthday. So you're gonna have to sit there and stare at this box and think about me. And I know it's gonna get on your nerves, you know, is so evil. Yes, I know, right? And so the box sat in my office and I didn't open it because it's not my birthday. And I I'm a horrible liar, horrible. So it's not like I could open it and then say I didn't open it because he would know right away. So the box is sitting in the office. Um, and you know, because he can then he came out the weekend and saw the box was still sitting and of course gave me crap about it. Um, and then we just talk all the time. And then one day um he he didn't answer my text, which was really strange. And I knew he was, he was, he was actually gonna be out in DC. And that's only a five-hour drive for me. And I'm like, dude, why don't I just come out? We'll hang out for the weekend when you're done working. He's like, it's a huge project. I'm not gonna have time because the client is really, it's like the beginning. And he goes, This is this is gonna be multi-year. He goes, and my team really needs me right now. And I'm like, okay, no worries, you know. And so I texted him that weekend because I knew he was gonna be hanging out in DC. And um I didn't get anything. And I'm like, okay. I mean, but even in his busiest, he still always texted me back. So a day goes by, two days, and I'm like, you're really scaring me. Where are you? So dot dot dot. It was two weeks, and I had to find a friend of his on Facebook to tell me that he passed away that week is 50 years old, and he was at the client site, and in the the 9 a.m. meeting, and by 9.15, he was complaining of a headache, had an aneurysm, and passed away right there. And that, I have to say, even now, gives me goosebumps and is so heartbreaking. That's the part I did not share about TJ because I didn't want to bring the room down at the end. But let me tell you, he he worked, but he played hard and traveled, and he'd send me pictures all the time of all this amazing food he was eating because he knows I'm big foodie, um, like wish you were here. You know. But, you know, when I think about him, I just I remind myself of am I giving myself these and days? Am I being true to that spirit? Because, you know, the days are gonna pass, the hours are gonna pass, whether you're at work or not. And, you know, if you want to do one more year syndrome, I did four of them. So it's not like I can say anything, but I can look back and I know I don't regret it because I I made an impact in people's lives at work and it gave me time to to build out what am I going to do in my next chapter.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

And and so it was it worked out for me. That was a lot, I know.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

No, I mean uh yours is a little different situation because I was gonna ask you, like, um, you know, I always like to look back um some like either my younger self in that situation, like what would I have done differently? So I was gonna say, you know, hey, if you could go back and talk to your younger self in those four years, but it sounds like you wouldn't really have given yourself any different advice, or would you?

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Well, I definitely would have given myself, I, you know, looking back, I would have stressed a lot less because stress is like just a hamster on on a wheel. It you go, you're gonna you're gonna spend all this energy and you're still gonna be in the same place. You know, the it the stress comes from things happen, it happens to everybody, you know, in in my story, you know. Um, but it's how you react to those things. And I I I do look back wishing I didn't um give so much energy to things that I didn't have control over, focused on the things that I could and appreciating every day, you know, appreciating every day. I mean, heck, just last week I was um meeting a friend for for lunch I hadn't seen in a while, and I was waiting to make a left turn and the light's flashing yellow, and I'm like, okay, oh, I see my opportunity to make my left turn and the light turns solid yellow, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go because it's solid yellow. Well, there was a car coming, this little red car, and they hit the gas. And honest to goodness, if I didn't move fast enough, we would not be having this conversation. You know, I mean, it was just kind of crazy. I couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Like, you know, but you know Life can change in the blink of an eye.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

It really can. It really can, you know. So, like every day I, you know, I have friends that are younger than me that, you know, have mobility issues, or, you know, like they, you know, whatever. And, you know, here I am, and you know, if I don't feel like working, I'd block my calendar and I take the dog and we go for a walk or go hang out, or you know, I mean, and I I'm very blessed. I'm very blessed. I got good kids, I've got my health. What's there to complain about? You know? And it's just, yeah, you go back to the basics of what brings you joy.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Um I I love that advice, and that's a great way to kind of wrap up this this episode. I mean, if there's if there's, you know, that one listener out there that that's still kind of stuck, they're in this, like, you know what, they said, uh, maybe next year. Right? They're in that mode right now. What's that that single piece of advice or that very next step you would you would like ask them to do?

SPEAKER_01 50:35

I would say if you're married, you have a partner, talk to them and put a plan together. Um, if you're worried about the numbers, hire a financial advisor that you trust, know like and trust, and ask yourself those questions, you know, like if my life ended today, is is this really what I wanted it to be? Is there anything that's left that I I haven't done? Or, you know, like if I didn't need this job, what would I do? And ask and be be honest. And it, you know, it takes time to, it's not like it comes to you right away. Sometimes you just have to think about it for like a day, a week, a month. But but being honest with yourself. And, you know, and sometimes for some people, they love their job and they would do it for free, you know. Like I love being a personal finance coach. I've done it for free. I've you know, I do a lot of you know stuff for free. And and because I I believe in it and it's my purpose and wanting to help people do better. And and so I would encourage people to think about that, you know. Um, it's just a paycheck. They are, you know, companies don't, it's not like it was, you know, their grandparents, where you stayed with one company and you retired with them and they took care of you. And no, it's they we don't have that anymore. But the beautiful thing about right now is that there are literally thousands of ways that you can make money in small capacity and large capacity, and just try it, you know. Just try, especially when you have a paycheck coming in. You there's no risk to it, you know. Just just give it a go and see what happens and try different things. I think you you know, I think people are are surprised. And then they they go through that little disappointment and anger of why didn't I do this sooner? There's a lot too.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Yeah, you know, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

But um, can't go back, you know. Oh, right, right. Um time's gonna pass whether you do something or not.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Exactly. Um, let people what what else do you have coming up? And let people know where they can find more about you and what you do. Let people know.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

So I am really excited. We're getting so close with this children's book. Um, so Bill Yount and I, uh, we are working on it together, and um we are super excited to get that rolled out. Uh, so that's a big project that'll come out most definitely for the holidays, which I can't even believe I'm gonna talk about that right, you know, in the summertime. But um, so we're working on that. Uh, and if you want to get a hold of me and I can be your accountability partner for one more year, you can email me at Monica at grabyourslice.com. You can check out my website at grabyourslice.com. The book is Grab Your Slice of Financial Independence, my original book. And um, and then I'm gonna start working on my workbook. And hopefully, you know, next year is my uh five years for my my book, and I'm going to roll out. I've decided I'm gonna hold myself accountable because I'm gonna say it right here, but I'm gonna put do that audio book and get that rolled out. Yes, yes, you heard it here, folks. I'm in, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Love it. Awesome. Well, Monica, thank you so much for joining me today. Super fun having you on. I want to thank everyone thank everyone for listening and following wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. We really would appreciate it. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna select a random review from Apple Podcasts, and I'm gonna send you a copy of Jill Collins' A Simple Path to Wealth. So make sure you go leave a review on Apple Podcasts. We will see you next time on the Extreme Personal Finance show. See ya!

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Yeah.