Real Men Ask for Help: A Divorce Coach's Guide to Rebuilding After Rock Bottom | 110

Real Men Ask for Help: A Divorce Coach's Guide to Rebuilding After Rock Bottom | 110

Divorce doesn't just wreck your heart. It wrecks your bank account, your identity, and sometimes your whole sense of who you are. This week on the Extreme Personal Finance Show, I sit down with John Hardy, a divorce recovery coach who specializes in helping men rebuild after separation, betrayal, and financial abuse.

John opens up about his own 30-year relationship, the alcohol that numbed the pain for years, and the moment he hit rock bottom before finally getting sober and starting over at 50. We dig into the money side of divorce that nobody talks about, hidden assets, vehicles sold for a dollar to keep them out of a settlement, and the financial devastation that comes when trust breaks down. They also get real about identity loss, isolation, and why so many men suffer in silence instead of asking for help.

If you're rebuilding after a breakup, or you just want to understand what your partner might be carrying, this episode is packed with practical steps for putting your life (and your finances) back together. John shares his first steps for starting over, why community and accountability matter more than willpower, and how a "bad financial transaction" like divorce can become the launchpad for something better.

John also talks about his new book, "Emotional Alchemy," a collaborative project with 19 other divorce coaches, and where guys can find him for coaching.

Contact Chris:

https://heavymetal.money

https://www.facebook.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://x.com/MoneyHeavyMetal

https://www.instagram.com/chrisluger

https://www.tiktok.com/@heavymetalmoney

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Resources and Links:

Connect with John!

https://www.johnhardydivorcecoach.com

Book Emotional Alchemy
 https://paintopowerbook.com

Contact Chris:
https://heavymetal.money

https://www.instagram.com/heavy_metal_money/

https://www.youtube.com/@heavymetalmoney

https://www.facebook.com/chrisluger

email: chris at heavymetal.money

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Real Men Ask for Help, a divorce coach's guide to rebuilding from the rock bottom. This week on the Extreme Personal Finance Show. All right, everyone. Welcome to the Extreme Personal Finance Show. I'm excited for this week. We have a guest on the show that is a divorce recovery coach for men. This is the guy that you would call when you really have no idea what's next after divorce. He helps men work through loneliness, fear, and the question of, man, how do I even start over? Right. And today he's here that's going to talk about he's here today to talk about some of the stuff men usually kind of keep locked away inside and they never really say out loud. So I'm really excited to welcome John Hardy to the show today. John, how you doing, man?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Chris, thank you. How are you, sir?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I'm a little bit jet-lagged. I just got back from 10 days in London, but it was a fantastic trip. I got to see Metallica and Iron Maiden in one trip. So it was a great uh it was a great time. And I did a bunch of touristy things. I went and saw Tower of London and you know, uh the Crown Jewels and all the things. So it was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Sounds like a great time.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

It was. It was a little uh like I wanted it to be a little relaxed, but of course I kept adding more things, and uh it just uh yeah, it was it was kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

But for sure, man. While you're there, you might as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Absolutely, you know, um took advantage of it. So it was it was great, and um and the food was awesome. I just I ate way too much, and yeah, it was super cool. But um so I'm I'm excited to talk about this. One, obviously, because I am a man and I went through divorce, and it's one of those things where I wish I had known you um, you know, 10 years ago when I when I was going through this whole process. And so, you know, what is I guess I want people to really understand kind of a little bit of your background, like how you got into you know, helping those men go through that process. Um, so let's start there. Like what kind of led you this you know down this path?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

So just like yourself, you know, you you go through something. Um, the nice way to put it is a life event. Um, for me, it was a very traumatic experience. I was in a in a relationship for 30 years, married for 24 of it.

unknown 2:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Um and you know, over time, you know, relationships drift apart, people change. Um, you throw kids into the mix, you know, life into the mix, work into the mix, financial issues into the mix, and without good communication and a common goal, a common direction, you know, people people do. They just drift apart and and priorities change. And a lot of times, you know, we call it a great divorce. You know, when the the kids are you know graduating high school, they're getting ready to go off to college, you know, it's it's kind of the apex where it's like everything comes together and it's an uncomfortable time. And unless you really, really have got that alignment in your in your relationship with your with your partner and you know, have planned for things. And and you know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And in my situation, it didn't. Um we struggled with finances for the entire 24 years. So again, to bring you into this, I mean, this is kind of the the backside to that, you know, and you you use an event like this to, you know, it's it's a pivotal change in someone's life, especially for a guy. You know, and and is is a is a man's man, you know, hunting, fishing, background of being a mechanic, you know, an industrial mechanic for most of my life. Um, worked up through upper middle management pharmaceutical, and just you know, you don't ask for help. You you've got it, you can fix it, you can take care of it, you'll you'll make it happen until it doesn't. And for me, that was that was that apex, you know, everything aligned, and you know, we drifted apart so far that that it was it was just time to go our separate ways. And you know, divorces are tough, you know. We live in a society where everybody wants to be right, you know, and I've learned that through through many years of of of management and stuff, you know, there's there's always three sides to every story, and in a divorce, it's no different his, hers, and probably what really happened.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

So that's I love I mean that's great.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Well, you cut it to the chase and and and be honest, you know, it's everybody plays a part in in the relationship, you know. Whether it's overspending or whether it's over drinking, um, you know, to to cope, it's it's just it's life, and you know, it's how you respond from from these situations and relationships, you know, to to make make the best of it. And you know, I I guess for me, um going through this, you know, I felt I felt pretty alone, you know, after especially after the divorce, you know, I don't have a large family, and you know, you are pretty much a codependent person in in a relationship with with your spouse. So over time, you know, friends kind of drift away, they've got their own families, their own hobbies and interests, you know, and man, at 50, I was like, where is everybody? You know, where's my cheerleading group? And and I just didn't have one. And you know, my my dad had passed, you know, so I have my mom, but other than that, you know, for a guy that's 50 years old, it's it's it's difficult, you know, and it's it's it's very humbling. You know, you look around and it's crickets, right? And where do you start over? What do you what do you do next? And as I as I started through this process of trying to, you know, figure out who I was, you know, your self-confidence is kind of knocked down, self-esteem is knocked down, you know, you don't really have a sense of identity because I always identified with, you know, I am my ex's husband, I am my daughter's dad, I am this person at work, but to have the identity of I am John Hardy, I am this person, you know, it's I I lost that over time. And to figure that out, I I I know a lot of I talk to my clients about this stuff, and and we we all seem to go through this. And it just it takes it just takes some time to kind of reorient and and recalibrate, I guess is maybe a better word, you know, of of who you are, you know, who you want to become, and to and to build that process of of or goals of where you want to go. So as I work through this, you know, I'm like, I'm struggling, and I just couldn't find anybody that was a kind of like a coach, you know, somebody that's going to root you on and kind of give you some tools and techniques and have the experience with with a mindset of accountability and a direction to go. And it I did some some scratching around and I found some training out of the UK um as far as a divorce, divorce coach. So I've got accreditation in separation, divorce, and breakup. And that kind of opened the door for um the niche of toxic relationships, domestic abuse, and narcissistic abuse recovery.

unknown 7:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

So as I learned more about my relationship that I had had, you know, it also brought to light some other things that potentially could have happened. And and as I started to do my case studies for my my coaching program, um, I started to see a lot of these similar things show up in other guys' relationships that they've had. So I took the training and it really has kind of taken off. I mean, you you start to, you know, you talk to a potential client, you do an intake call, and you know, they say a few things and you ask a few questions and they really identify with, they're like, oh my gosh, you know, yes, I I get this, and you connect. So that's kind of the segue that I had getting into the the divorced coaching side of it. And you know, it's it's it's a great opportunity for for people to make changes in their life. You know, it's like I said, it's that cutoff, that break of my life looks different today than it did six months ago.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Sure. Sure. You know, and that's one thing, you know, at least my and again I'm being a little bit vulnerable here, right? But like when when I went through that that divorce, you know, the separation and the divorce and why you typically kind of I don't know, suffer in silence, right? We kind of keep that all bottled up. You don't really know what to do, where to go, no one who really knew who to talk to. Um and it's because I had this sense of in all honesty, failure. Like my marriage was a failure. I failed at this thing, and it was really hard. And I'm just curious, do you sense that other men kind of feel that way? Like, is that why they're keeping it kind of bottled up because they have the sense of failure, like they couldn't fix it or something like that?

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Oh, for sure. It is I mean, it it it shakes you to the core, you know, and and it is it's very, it's very repeatable. The same thing that you just you just said to me, I hear over and over and and have personally experienced it. I mean, it's it is it is soul crushing, you know, because you you do, you've got everything figured out in your head on you know the next five years, next 10 years, how how you perceive things are going to end up, how they should end up, but they don't. And it's that that step back that, oh wow, now what? You know, it's it's it's fear, it's you know, not knowing what's what's gonna happen next. It's that sense of failure. Um, what is somebody else gonna think? You know, it's all of these things that start to go through your mind, and you go, uh it just, and as guys, we don't ask for help.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

You know, it's it it's that and and I I really ask a lot of questions, especially with my clients, and you know, uh how are you how are you able to reach out now and you weren't you know six months ago? And it's I think you just get to that point where you just kind of throw your hands up and you just go, man, I I don't know what to do next. You know, the therapist and the psychiatrist are there and they're asking questions, but they're not they're not asking the right questions, they're not able to to to connect, you know, and you know, if if you if you've lived through something, you know, you can connect with something with somebody a lot better than somebody that hasn't.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Do you do you know? Um what are some other things? Like I'm curious because there may be people listening here and they either have gone through it already, or maybe they're in a situation where they really don't know who to talk to, they really don't know these feelings they have, or something like that. What are some other things people tell you in private? Right? Like when you're coaching them, that they may not say out loud to their friends, to their family, or even to their spouse, or maybe soon to be ex-spouse, I don't know. But like I'm sure that you have some of that dialogue with them that is they're finally opening up. What are some other things? And again, obviously, you know, keep it confidential, but what are some other things you hear other men say in private?

SPEAKER_03 11:47

What did I get here? How did this happen? You know, a lot a lot of self self-doubt, self-questions, you know, it's always what what role did I play? How is it my fault? You know, and that's I guess that's uh one of the bigger ones is you know, it takes two to tango. You know, and it's always easy to blame yourself for something that you know you don't have 100% control over. And that's that's very humbling. Um, because again, you can you can only control yourself and and your personal your personal experiences. You can't control what other people do. And sometimes in a really relationship, you know, there's betrayal, there's other things that happen. There's money that is given away or or pushed in different directions instead of where it should have been. You know, it should have stayed, you know, in that bank account and it wasn't. There's there's just yeah. Uh man, I've heard it, I've heard a ton of stuff. It's but a lot, a lot of it is, you know, what what what did I play? What what part of that role did I play? How is this my fault? And a lot of guys won't openly say that because they don't want to be vulnerable, they don't want to take that accountability.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

You know, and it's and it and it really starts a spiral, you know. They don't if they don't open up, you know, you you kind of slide into a little bit of depression, yeah, maybe a little few extra beers, you know, on the way home from work, or you know, you grab a six-pack, and the next thing you know, it's six months later and you're just stuck.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Right.

unknown 13:31

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

And it's there's no forward progress. It's like it's like they're can they're they're revolving in this toxic cycle and they're not bettering themselves, they're not moving in a positive direction. You know, they're still having communications with with their ex, you know, whether it's typically negative. I mean, if if you're co-parenting, it's is certainly a situation where you you have to have communication, but there's ways that you can do that in a positive manner, um, protecting yourself with boundaries, you know, having having some expectations of what is acceptable and not acceptable, you know, from your from your ex. You know, and that's that's things that that we talk about as far as you know, again, rebuilding yourself, you know, your self-confidence, your self-esteem, getting yourself in a position to where you're stronger mentally and can and can hold your ground and speak fluently and speak, I guess articulate what you what you will and won't accept, which is is something that a lot of times at the end of relationships, you know, you guys just throw their hands up and give up and just I'm done. And you you you need that that again that's that sense of self-confidence.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Right. There was there was a time I'm I'm currently in a uh uh a newish budding relationship. And congratulations. Thank you, thank you so much. It's it's been an amazing couple months here, and and we've been, I will tell you, more open and honest communication than I've had in any relationships in the past. And it was interesting because we were talking about you know our past relationship or like you know, my marriage that ended after being together for 19 years, right? We were together for 19, uh married for 15. And it was one of those things where you know there was the question about what role did I play in the divorce. And looking back now, are there things that I maybe was blind to, things that I was doing, and and it was really kind of I guess eye-opening that you know there was times that I was working a lot. There were times I was working for a software company, and yeah, there was some periods where I was traveling 80% of the time and you know, not really understanding the stress that was putting on the relationship, you know, and and you know, she was here caring for two toddlers, and you know, I would get home and have to sw, you know, swap laundry and get ready, and I'm on the road again, and and it was I definitely there was stress and tension there that now I probably should have been more aware of. You know, I'm not saying that that was that one thing that led to to um the divorce, but it was definitely something that maybe I was blind to at in the time, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 16:28

We do the Monday morning quarterback things too.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, yeah. Yep, exactly, exactly. So I I'm I'm curious, was there is there maybe like a specific moment or like a I don't know, like a client where they finally they finally like the mask kind of comes off, if you will, and they finally just admit to themselves, like, okay, this is really how I'm feeling. Like, when do they kind of cross that line and try to really open up to to working with a coach? Because I think sometimes men would even be resistant to getting the help that they need. So is there some kind of moment that they cross to say, okay, I'm gonna talk to John, I'm gonna get some help here.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Like I said, it's it's it's usually it's the the after the divorce. Um that's that's where where I see most of my clients. Um, because unless unless you've got a you've you've had coaches in the past, you've had that experience with with somebody to help you through processes, you know, most guys don't know where to go. You know, they first thing they do is they go see an attorney. Um, they typically don't see a financial advisor and they just go through the process. And it would really help them out if they would reach out to a coach at that point in time. So typically it's it's pretty bare minimum to see somebody, you know, before or during the divorce, before they show up on my doorstep. Usually when they show up on my doorstep, it's they've they've just come out of the ring with a black eye and an empty wallet. So yeah, but but yeah, I mean it's it is that I guess it's that pain point. Um, but from I have had a couple of clients and they've been female clients that have that have reached out and have have been at that point of like, this is what's going on. I don't know what to do. And I think it's it's really that again, it's that apex of it's painful, it hurts. Um typically there's been betrayal. You know, he's cheated on her, and they're just at wit's end. And they they they're looking for somebody for a sounding board. You know, what what do I do next? What do you recommend I do next? My attorney's telling me this, you know, my financial advisor is telling me this.

unknown 18:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Should I get a financial forensic uh investigator? Because I think there may be money that's been funneled one way or another, or you know, um, or assets that have been, you know, stashed somewhere. That's I've I've heard some of the craziest things of what what people will do and the links that people will go to.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Wow. Okay, you just you gotta share uh some of those. Because I'm really curious, like what I mean, I know that you know, I've I've encountered, you know, people that have gone through emotional uh, I'm sorry, financial abuse, you know, um secret money, secret debt, um, being very controlling with money, right? I think I've mentioned another podcast episode where we had someone that, you know, the husband demanded that the wife give him her paycheck and he was gonna decide where the money went. And it was very abusive in that regard. What are some of the things you say people go to to either try to hide them, which let's be honest, you're never gonna hide unless you're putting it in an offshore account somewhere, you're never gonna be able to hide those assets. I don't know. That's just my opinion. But what is things that you've seen?

SPEAKER_03 20:04

You've seen stuff sold for a dollar. Items? What uh I had a I had uh uh actually with a friend of mine, he had a 1979 Ford Chevrolet pickup truck, you know, and and today, you know, it's in great condition, relatively low mileage, it's it's worth quite a bit of money, but it was so near and dear to his heart, he sold that to another friend for a dollar, had all of the paperwork done. I mean, you know, and I look at the other side of that coin and I go, you know, that's a twenty thousand dollar automobile, right? Right, you know, an old, you know, antique automobile, and it may be worth more, I don't know. But again, she's entitled to to 50% of that, or to use that as barter for something else, you know, that is an asset, you know. So automobiles, that's uh tangible assets like that. Um you know the the firearms are another one. There's there's a lot of things, there's there's nuances that that are used to, you know, again, it's everything in a divorce, it's it's all of your assets and all of your debts. And at the end of the day, it's it's it's a I call it it's it's the end of a bad financial transaction as the divorce.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Right. Because and money and debt makes people do crazy things.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

They lose their mind.

unknown 21:33

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Then you throw the fuel of emotion in on top of that. You know, again, if there's betrayal and everybody wants to be right, and you've got, you know, the sideliners that are that are adding fuel to the fire, I mean it's it it it makes a divorce very, very difficult to get through. You know, and I'll I'll I'll just throw this out at you. You know, if if if both parties had a divorce coach that that was trained in Could rein somebody back in and say, okay, you know, this is just a process to get through. You know, make it as streamlined and simple as possible. You know, it's assets, it's debts. You know, you take your assets, you you cover all of the debts, everything is cleared. What's left over in your assets afterwards is divided 50-50. You know, then if there's children involved, you know, that's that's another complete chunk. But it's if you look at it as a process instead of an emotional, emotional turmoil, um, it's it's way easier to get through. You know, the sooner you can get through it with the least amount of trauma involved, the sooner you can start to rebuild and move forward, you know, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. It's and that's what you need to, that's really where you should be at me it at the end of the divorce. You should be, I'm ready to reset. These are the things that I need to do, and this is where I want to be. I set set some goals and move forward with. And that's as a coach, that's what you you help these people do, the process of you know, goal setting, right? You know, reflecting. You know, it's again, it's the opportunity, it's that perfect time for especially a guy to say, you know what, I don't like all of these things that are in my life, and I can change them, you know, set goals. I want to lose some weight, I want to go to the gym, I want to be in better physical condition, I want to, you know, whatever it may be, whatever your interests are, you know, and and and move forward in that positive direction.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Right, right. I think that do you feel as though is there you know, we talked about being vulnerable a little bit, and that can really be it can come from I don't know, come from uh an area of strength, right? Because you are you're finally going to get guidance that you need, right? They're gonna come to someone like you, they're gonna get the guidance they need to kind of move forward. At what point, like if somebody st is gonna be you know, start over, right? They know it's it's after divorce, um, you're helping them through that process. What is some of the the first steps of kind of starting over? Like you said, maybe it's going to the gym, maybe it's what are some of those first goals you'd recommend that someone start to focus on?

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Find people that are like-minded with similar interests that are positive.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

If if because the last thing you want to do is surround yourself with with negative people.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Oh, love it.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Because one that's going to keep you stuck.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

It's going to keep you in that same toxic loop. Hey man, let's go to the let's go to the bar and get get some beers and and pick chicks up. And you know, again, it's it's that time to recalibrate who you are. And I for me, the one of the first things that that I try to get guys to do is you know, look at your friend group. You know, you've got we've got all different different different gradients of of positive and negative friends that we surround ourselves with. And and what what are your interests? You know, what what what do you like to do? Some you ask somebody that that comes out of divorce, they may say, you know, I don't even know anymore. You know, and you have the conversations of what do you think you would like to do, and then try it.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

And if it's again, if it's physical health, if it's you know, maybe going to church, maybe it's writing a book, what whatever it may be, you know, explore those interests and focus on those interests because that's also going to help, you know, show you who you are. With because again, most people they they've completely lost that sense of identity, and it it's you don't realize it until you know you don't have the person that you thought you were to identify with, as far as being that husband or that dad, or or that person at work.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, and I remember when I first started going to therapy after divorce, so I've been going to therapy now for gosh 10 years now. But I remember, and one of the questions that I remember I was asked was, what do you do for fun? And I remember at the time it was like I don't fucking know. Oh, and by the way, you can curse on my podcast, just let you know. I have the explicit badge, so if you need to, it's fine. Um but uh yeah, it I I remember, like you said, like kind of like I don't know. I don't know what I like to do, I don't know what I like, you know. And and it it's it's really kind of I like saying, wow, sky's the limit. Like I can try all these new things now because I'm gonna recalibrate in my life. But also it's a little scary because I I don't know, I'm gonna try new things, right? You're getting out of your comfort zone, but like I've always said, that's how you grow, right? You get out of your comfort zone, and that's every time you do that, every time you feel uncomfortable, you're growing as a human. And I I stand by that. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

I'll share this with you. It was this is one of the one of the ones that was very pivotal for me. And and I look back and and I've actually had other clients ask me this exact question. When was the first time you went out to dinner by yourself after your divorce?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Oh, good one.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

For me, you know, I I just got in the habit of going to the gym. I would go to the gym every day because you know, I I had this extra time, you know, I didn't have what am I gonna do with this extra two or three hours in the evening that you would normally spend with your family? You know, you the time doesn't go away and you need to replace it with something, and you need to replace it with something positive. So I just started going to the gym every day. You know, I break it up, I'd go for runs or whatever. But I remember that I it was one of my goals was I'm gonna stop on the way home from the gym and grab something to eat. And I'm not kidding you, it took me almost probably two to two and a half months. I'd I'd get done at Planet Fitness, hop and shower, have have my mindset, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna do this tonight. And I would pull in, say, Chili's parking lot, put the truck in park, shut it off, and I'd sit there.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Really?

SPEAKER_03 28:25

And and I would look at that door handle on that pickup truck, and I mean, it could have been made of kryptonite because I could not make myself open that. And I remember probably, I don't know, at least a couple months into it, I actually got got to where I could open that door, walked up to the front door, and I couldn't make myself walk through it. And I'm like, okay, this is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

But again, it's it's that part of you know, in my head, what what are people gonna think? What if I see somebody that I know? What if they ask about my divorce? You know, it's how how do you how do you start to even have these conversations when you haven't really processed this stuff yourself? And it's and it's difficult, it's it's scary, you know, it's failure. You know, you look at this stuff and go, oh my gosh, you know, this is 30 years and it's completely erased.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Who am I? It just and it's it's that self, it's that self-awareness, it's that you know, re-identifying with whom you are. And as and as I was able to to see this, acknowledge it, accept it, yeah, and then I could start to move forward. And I think I I eventually got to where I made myself go in to different restaurants for seven days straight and have a meal. And from that point on, it was kind of like, okay, I can do this. You know, and and today it's you know, it's not a big deal, but it it it is a big stretch. And and it surprised me when I had my first client say, When is the you know, he asked me, he's like, When's the first time you actually went out to dinner after your divorce? I'm like, Well, right, since you're asking, I'll share this with you. And he's sitting there, you know, on the other side of the screen just shaking his head. He's going, Yeah, yeah, I can't believe you've experienced this too. I'm like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Well, let me share it. I was right there with you, buddy. So and and it was even it was even a step you know further than that. It was not only going to dinner by yourself, but it was also then going to a movie. Then it was then it was going to a concert, right? There was times, believe it or not, and I'm embarrassed to say, but after divorce, there were times when, you know, again, music was such a huge part, live music was such a huge part of my life. I would buy a ticket, I would buy two tickets even though I knew most likely it's just me that's going. I I don't know why, but I I it was just something that I couldn't I don't know I to this day I can't really explain it. But it was that that when you finally would go to a concert by yourself, and at first you're kind of you know a little embarrassed, right? What are people gonna think? It's the same thing like going to a movie by yourself, um, just like what you said, right? You're building up to being able to do it, and now you know, I do it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

But well and real quick, I yeah, that's so funny because so in in the area that I live, um, and I like I like classical music, and um candlelight concert comes through here about two or three times a year, and I've always wanted to see them. So I think I've bought three sets of three three different concerts, yep, tickets, two tickets for each concert, and the first one I gave away, and the last two I just didn't go.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Oh, doesn't that just break your heart? I know I've done it in it, yes. I've done it, John. I've done it, absolutely I've done it. Oh my gosh, man. One I feel a little bit better, but I'm not the only one.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

But uh, that's awesome. So when you're talking about the candle, is that like the string quartet that does the candle? Like, oh, I want to go so bad. They do a couple, they do a couple that they do like classic rock ones, and I would love to go. That'd be super cool.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Yeah, I think the last one was Coldplay and somebody else. I think they have ABBA is another one. Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah. The people that I give the tickets, they're like, this was so amazing, thank you. And I'm sitting there going, Oh, maybe next time they come through town, I'll I'll be able to go. But it it is, it's being able to have that, you know what, I'm gonna do this and then make yourself follow through.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

So as a as a coach, you know, I try to do these things, but I'm human as well. Yeah, you know, it's I have I hold my clients accountable. Sometimes I don't have anybody to hold me accountable other than myself.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

So sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

So coaches need coaches as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Oh, totally, 100%. And I I think that one thing that you mentioned earlier, you know, some people they they're they go through that divorce and or maybe they're going through it, or maybe they're they're they're post-divorce and they're kind of stuck in they don't really know what goals they should be doing, and they they fall back to those crutches or those coping mechanisms, and maybe they're not necessarily healthy, right? I mean, I think it's I guess what like what coping mechanism maybe looks normal on the outside, but they might be like suffering or trying to get through on the inside. I don't know. I'm just trying to help those people that may be listening and they they think deep inside, like, yeah, I'm kind of stuck, and I gotta I gotta get out and start building those healthy habits, you know, those healthy coping mechanisms, right? I mean, what are your thoughts there? What would you tell those people?

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Well, anything in excess is not good. Ah, no, it's fine. You know, a lot of times it starts with a glass of wine to knock the edge off, or a couple of beers, and a beer turns into a six-pack. Or, you know what, it's Saturday, and I'm gonna be working in the garage, and then you have your first beer at nine o'clock.

unknown 34:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

The next thing you know, it's nine p.m. and a case of beer's gone.

unknown 34:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

You know, it's but it again, a lot of times coping mechanisms, you know, they they seem that they're not that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

And it's especially with alcohol, it's it's very socially acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

And you know, one beer can turn into six, you know, over a period of time, but then the next thing you know, it's a six-pack of beer every night on the way home from work.

unknown 35:02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

You know, and these are but there are things that you just you just kind of, yeah, I probably shouldn't do that. But then you then you start down this path of it's it's habit forming. You know, that's alcohol, alcohol to me is is I I I dealt with the alcohol addiction that actually um I'll share this with you. I I drank myself out of a 130k year job.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

And this is this was pre-divorce. Uh again, work was stressful, home life was stressful, and I checked myself into rehab, and I'm like, look it.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Good for you though. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Well, I I I'm pretty good, dude, and pretty well educated, and I knew that there was something going on. You know, what what am I doing wrong? What where am I failing myself? Where am I failing my family? Where am I what's wrong? So three weeks after detox um program, you know, in AA and therapy, I had a psychiatrist, I had a therapist, and all of these things helped me. You know, so I'm looking, I'm looking through this at a lens that that kept me stuck in bad work environment in a bad relationship for a lot of years.

unknown 36:20

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

So when when I took the alcohol away, that was that was my my number, that was my buffer that allowed me to stay stuck. So when that went away, you started to realize and feel and you know look at things differently. You know, the environment didn't change, I changed.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Sure. So you were you um again, not to go down like some some paths there, but I mean, do you was the alcohol to numb the the the unhealthy relationship at home? Was it to it was was that kind of the main coping mechanism for that?

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Got it. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

And and that's and and that is verbatim from from my therapist. You know, again, it's these are realizations and things that were there that I didn't want to accept, I didn't want to look at. So uh, you know, you'd you'd have you'd have some makers mark and a little bourbon, and you know, things are smooth and cool, and you just you just roll with the punches. But when when all of it went away, you you could see and feel it things were different.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Yeah. You know, was it clarity? Was it was it like clarity kind of a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 37:46

It went from being like looking through scratched sunglasses to um a bright day. You're like, you know, and then and then you then where I where I really struggled was um I I made it 87 days, I almost made it 90 days. You know, again, I'm going to AA, I'm going to doing all of this stuff. And you know, I I started to be full of this anxiety again, and it it was just an internal feeling, and I'm burning up inside, and um things were rough at home. So I fell off the wagon. I got one of those little bitty pints of makers, mark, and about three days later, you know, it was uh coming to Jesus meeting at home. And unfortunately, it was a big blow up, and I'm like, you know what? It I just told I I told my wife, I said, if this is how bad my life is going to be, I just soon not be here. And that's that really that was the the I guess pivotal shift of okay, this is this is what is going on. My therapist has told me this is what is going on. You know, I've been told that this is unhealthy. I've been advised that I need to file for a divorce um to get away from this. And again, it's these are things I didn't want to do. You know, I didn't want to admit failure. I didn't want to say, you know what, this is not working. There's no way that I can fix this.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Was there any point? I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

No, no, no, no, go ahead, sir.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Was there any point that you know you kind of felt I mean I'm listening to this thinking, well, if you if you in order to I want to say be fair or save your wife from being in this toxic relationship as well, like it's time for me to divorce, time for me to leave, to let her go be healthy. I I don't know, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Um it was after that point, um you know, again, we we had some conversations, we tried to make it work for the next my goal was was 90 days. I think we made it about 120.

unknown 40:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

And there was I came to the point, the conclusion that there was absolutely there was nothing to save.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

The the it the relationship was was gone.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

You know, and and it was to to your point, you know, if if if I would have stayed, I would have repl repeated that same cycle. You know, I would have I would have had to, you know, again, gone back to alcohol or something else to stay in that. And and it it wouldn't it wouldn't suit my ex, and it certainly wouldn't suit me. So it was it was time to move forward, again, painfully, and something that I didn't want to do, but I didn't I really didn't have a choice. You know, and that's and that's I guess a very hard, hard decision for anybody to make.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah. Yeah. What what do you feel as though I mean I I I like how you mentioned that you you did start to do things like go to the gym, recalibrate your life. I guess if somebody's listening and and they they want to start replacing those um I don't know, those destructive habits, right? Into a more healthy uh and more healthy way to look at things, what are some of the things you did to really kind of turn yourself around and rather than go to the bar or or get a drink, um, you decided to go for a run? Like, what are some of that like okay, I'm gonna start replacing these toxic traits with some healthy ones?

SPEAKER_03 41:42

One of the major ones that I added into my life that I hadn't ever had was spirituality.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

I started going to church. Um went through a few different churches to find one that that that kind of fit.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

And again, it's it's it's that message, it's that positive message and reinforcement that things are going to be okay. You know, and it's it's that higher power that you can kind of lean on. There's there's something more significant than myself. There's somebody, you know, a belief that I can reach out to, you know, a being that is that is greater than I am. And you know, the the the people in in the in the church that that I went to were were supportive. You know, hey, how are you doing? And when you look at them and you go, I'm fine. And well, you know, because again, if if we we wear it like a dirty shirt, you know, if the expressions on your face, you know, I I would go into church a lot of times and and just tears would stream down my face. And no, really, John, how how are you doing? Are you okay? You know, and then that opens up you know some conversation and and allows you to be a little vulnerable, which is something that again, I didn't have a coach, I didn't have anybody to lean on. So it's that's an that's a a good place to you know to to ground yourself. Um so definitely I I recommend to my clients whether whether they take the advice or not, but you know, spirituality, you know, faith and faith in a higher power, God, what whatever you want to call it, it it it's it's a good place to to kind of root yourself in. You know, there's morals, there's ethics, and um I guess another again, uh physically was was super huge for me. You know, I've always been been an athlete, I've always enjoyed running, you know, 5Ks, 10ks. Um just I I joined a destined run club. I I live in Florida. So uh I run four days a week. You know, I'm I'm around people that that are very passionate about running, and it's it's that finding that group of people that are positive. With like mindset, with with healthy habits.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

You know, it's whether it's going to the gym, like I said, it's any anything physical helps you, obviously physically, but also mentally as well. You know, it's it's the endorphin release, it's you know the sense of accomplishment. Hey, I did this. You set goals and you can achieve those goals and hold yourself accountable.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

And it also opens up the opportunity to to have an accountability partner. You know, if if you struggle with with that, you know, find somebody that that that will do it with you. And then then you can have that that that cross-dialogue of, hey, I'm struggling today. You know, and it's it's it's the communication, it's having somebody else there to talk to instead of bottling it up, keeping it inside and isolating yourself.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Right, right. I know I just I was I just finished the book called Smarter Next Year by David Bardsley, and that was one of the things that he mentioned in there about um mental health and mental clarity, and to um improve any sort of cognitive decline you'll have later on in life, the number one thing you can do is get physical exercise.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

Oh sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Yeah. Um that's and I will also want to mention too, I know you mentioned again spirituality was one a big thing in in your life. And sometimes you may not be religious, but there can be it's just some sort of higher power. So I want people to understand too, maybe it's maybe it's just it's earthly power or something like that. I mean, it's it's just something but that's bigger than yourself, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Absolutely. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

That's awesome. I love that. And I think you know, as we start to wrap up here, if there is a guy that's listening, I mean, you are definitely this you're like the poster the poster child for turning your life around. Yeah, it's just it's great. So if you you know, if there's someone that's listening that is like at their lowest point, I mean similar to where you were at, you know, what's that one thing you really want them to hear right now?

SPEAKER_03 46:14

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah. And if they want to I mean, I one that's great because I think that if you if you can understand that there are others that have walked that path before you, right? Like you mentioned that, it it helps you feel as though you're not you're not alone and it help you help uh help people understand that it's not forever. I think that's the biggest thing, right? Like when when you're going through something and you're feeling depressed or you're stuck in this rut, and you know, our brains you know, it's hard for them to under it's hard for our brains to understand that it's not forever. It's right now you may feel like that, but it's not forever. Right? Um now you have a book, um, Emotional Alchemy, and I want you to explain a little bit about this book and what people can expect from it, and um just share with the people about your book. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Um, so I did a collaborative collaborative project with 19 other divorce coaches. Um it was it's uh so I'm the only guy in the entire book.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Really?

SPEAKER_03 47:24

And I'm the only person from the US in the book.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

Like one of the other coaches is out of Canada, and there's one in South Africa, but everybody else is out of the UK. That's just because the training program that that I went through um was was out of the UK. So I think I've met like 17 out of out of out of these coaches personally. And so I I got the the uncut version out of this book, but um it's it's a really, really good read. Um each each chapter's about 2,000 words, and it's kind of a story of what they've been through um for the divorce. For for myself, I didn't share a lot about my divorce just because I've got a daughter, and I didn't really want to go down that path. You know, I as a dad, you know, my my kid was my buddy, and you know, now here we are two years out from from you know post-divorce and just starting to get have that that relationship back. My my daughter just came down to Florida and hung out with me for a week. I hadn't seen her in 15 months, right? And it was an amazing time. We bonded, had some some it was it was very, very healing for both of us.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

And I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

So if you you read through my chapter, it's not really about a divorce, but it's more about relationships and how they impact us. Um, I talk about you know, the passing of my father. Um, he was uh fire chief and it was in line in line of duty death um on Christmas Eve.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

That was that was very impactful in my life.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Um gosh, that's so hard.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

There's just some other stories there that you know for for myself that you know it's it's not what happens to us, but it's how we respond to it that that is important. You know, it's that takeaway, it's that lesson, it's that learning. And you know, you can take a bad situation for myself with divorce and you know, make a pivot, use it as a way to you know create create a revenue stream to help other men, you know, through a similar situation than I am, and step away from the corporate world. So I mean, you take a bad situation and you turn it into something positive, you know, and and it's it it's it's just a healthy way to to move forward from from that loss or that lack.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Right on. Well, I yeah, there's I I'm looking forward to oh no, sorry about that. I'm looking forward to um to reading your uh your portion of the book. I'm really excited about others to to get their hands on it. And most importantly, where can people find more about you, your coaching? Um, maybe they want to reach out, maybe they they they need some help. So where can they find more about you?

SPEAKER_03 50:21

Yeah, sure. Um, so I'm in the process of transitioning my website. So I've got a new website that's coming online. It's at John J-O-H-N W Hardy H A R D Y dot com. Um, all of my contact information and details are there. Um, I'll my email is John at John HardyDivorceCoach.com.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Perfect. And I'll have all the links in the show notes. If you're at the gym or you're up for a run, we'll have all the links in the show notes that you can get, uh, links to the book and all of John's contact information. John, thank you so much for joining me today. This was this was awesome. And I think more more men need to be open to talking about this. And I'm really glad you are doing this for those for those men going through this, because like I said, I really wish I had somebody to walk walk that path with me as I was going through the divorce as well. So thank you so much. And everyone else that's listening out there or watching on YouTube, thank you for joining us today. I really do appreciate it. Please like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. If you leave a review, I'm gonna pick a lucky random reviewer, and they're gonna get a free copy of Jill Collins' book, A Simple Path to Wealth. I have some to give away. So please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. We will see you next time on Deep Stream Personal Finance Show.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

See ya!