Leading Broker Series – Brad Clucas in conversation with Chris Hazell, Bespoke Finance Group

In this episode, Brad Clucas chats with Chris Hazell, Owner and Director of Bespoke Finance Group, about his path from entering the finance industry to building an award-winning brokerage. 

Chris shares the pivotal decisions that shaped his business, from taking full ownership and navigating the challenges of COVID to simplifying his offering and focusing on sustainable growth. He also explores building a high-performing team, implementing systems and processes that improve efficiency, and creating a client experience that drives long-term loyalty and referrals. 

A practical discussion for brokers looking to scale their business with confidence while building a business that supports both long-term success and work-life balance. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello, and welcome to Connected the Talk Series. Today, we're joined by Brad Klukas and Chris Hazel as they explore Chris's journey from entering the finance industry to building an award-winning brokerage.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Hello, I'm Brad Klukas, head of strategic member engagement, and in this series, we'll be sitting on the couch with brokers who have all been on different journeys, who have a lot of insights to share. Today I'm really excited to be in the studio to chat with Connected's very own broker, Chris Hazel, director of Bespoke Finance Group based out of Western Australia. Thanks for catching me early night. Early flight today. Thanks for having me. Chris is the owner and director of Bespoke Finance Group. After completing a Bachelor of Commerce, Chris entered the finance industry in 2010 and has spent recent years helping his clients and their families achieve their financial goals. Chris prides himself on finding simple solutions for complex matters. He has followed the ethos in client service as a business owner, growing the spoke from humble beginnings to an industry award-winning finance group. Chris brings unique strengths and perspectives to the table, and we're excited to learn from his expertise in today's webinar. Outside of work, Chris is married to his wife, Chanuka, with whom they have two boys, Jordan and Tommy. And when he's not looking after the kids or helping out at home, in his spare time, Chris enjoys long distance running, tennis, hockey, and anything to do with being in the border. So basically, he's a lot fitter than me. It's a pleasure to have you with us, Chris. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Great to be here. Yeah, it's great. We're uh hopefully the audience will be keen to hear from you. I'm sure they will with your stories.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

So spare time with the four and the five-year-olds in the business is minimal. Former hobbies.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Well, let's uh let's start with your journey early on. We mentioned you started in 2010 when you joined the industry. Um share with the audience a bit about the early years and what they look like for you.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah, absolutely. So uh I did a Bachelor of Commerce uh early on, wasn't quite sure what I wanted to get into. Funnily enough, I wanted to get into banking and uh saw broking as a way to get into that pathway. I'm I'm glad that didn't work out for me. We're still here. Um I started with another connective uh business in 2010, working under three directors there and did the uh, I suppose the apprenticeship, if you will. So um uh lots of late light meetings for those that know Perth. I was driving south to Bunbury, north to Bullsbrook, uh, lots of different meetings, learning the trade, learning the craft. I also worked under three different directors that gave me a very good opportunity to see how different uh operators work, strengths and weaknesses and things to take away from from there. Uh shortly after that, or two years into my career, if you will, I was presented with an opportunity to uh join a business that had been only a few months old, uh, Bespoke Finance. My business partner and uh other business partner, Jeremy, they contacted me and the opportunity was really too good to refuse. Uh, they had a referral relationship with about 15 different real estate agencies, and uh they essentially brought me in to be the loan writer and the legs on the ground. So uh that that was the start, and um I'm very grateful for that opportunity. And particularly I was 25 at the time, starting my own career, and then the opportunity to start and build something for myself was too good to pass up.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Was a bit nervous making that change, or was it like just the opportunity to absolutely?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

I mean, prior to being 2020, prior to being um at the age of 24, I didn't even know what a mortgage broker was. Uh, I think a lot of people, unless they're in the industry, not quite sure what that looks like. So I was given the opportunity to join an industry. I had a very, very quick uh education, was a contract broker within one year, and then to have that opportunity in year two, uh, it was a big plunge. Uh, I had the support from the family. I was living in a share house with some mates, so costs were low. Uh, and thought, no, yeah, if I'm ever going to do it, if I'm gonna try and start something, now's the time. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, okay. And so how long when you joined Bespoke? Uh, it's take us through maybe five to seven years after that time. Yep. There were some changes in the business there that occurred.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Yeah, absolutely. So we went from three directors down to two. We took a few years when it was just the two of us. Um, my business partner, Carl, and the one of the ethos of the business uh was Bespoke Finance Group. We were a full-service financial business, uh, finance business. So Carl ran the financial planning side of the business, and I ran the broking side of the business. We got to the point where we had two different planners under Carl. We had up to about four different brokers, we had the support team, uh, we had our own ACL. So we were really looking to uh be the one-stop shop for all of our clients. Um, Carl, who gave me the opportunity, and I'm I'm very grateful for the time he spent building the business and what what we got to decided he wanted to step away. Um, he was very much an entrepreneurial man and he had a lot of different uh projects that he wanted to work on. Um, so he approached me about uh stepping away from the business. It was it was honestly a two-year conversation. We're working it all through.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

This is him stepping away from business, it's not you. No, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Um I didn't want him to leave, um, but he had some opportunities that he wanted to pursue. We looked at bringing other planners in that could run that side of their business. But after a while, um looking at what we were doing and where I wanted to take the business, we made the decision to just uh sell off the planning side of the business. So in 2019, um, we probably got quite lucky just before COVID. We sold the financial planning side of the business and I bought out Carl. Uh we then dropped uh our ACL. We just focused on the broking side of things and really streamlined our service offering.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

And so the the option was for Carl to step away and you to effectively become full owner of the Spoke?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yeah. So at that point in time, uh he again ran the planning side of things. So I had an understanding of how the planning side of business worked, but there's no way I could run two different sides of the business. Um, and I was very hesitant, whilst I did take a leap of faith early to bring someone into the business that I wasn't familiar with. Um any business owners know that's that's essentially a marriage. Uh, you uh you never know what it's like until you're in it. Um, and I was very hesitant, um, one, because of how good my relationship was with Carl, that I didn't want to take a chance and do something to jeopardize what we built. Yep. So really look to just again um uh streamline the business, focus on what I knew and what we could knew we could do well and follow through with, and went about it from there.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

And and so, you know, let when a lot of brokers or principals might be thinking about, all right, I'm gonna incorporate a financial planning arm, you've said actually no, we're we'll remove that, we'll focus on broking. Yeah, you mentioned that uh you moved from having an ACL to coming up under you know Connectives uh credit license. Explain a bit about that move as well. You know, what was there anything behind that? Was there guidance given to you?

SPEAKER_02 7:07

When Carl stepped away from the business, I went from having a business partner that I uh, you know, it's alongside of just planning and broking, you've got marketing, you've got accounting, you've got all the different things that you're trying to look after. Um, and it also coincided with COVID. So COVID dropped. Um, just as I I still remember meeting Carl out the front of the Banquest branch in Inglewood with a a check and my mask on and giving it a uh an elbow bump and over a check. Kind of just going, what the bleep am I doing here? But uh we're trying to get rid of all of that in Melbourne, yes. Melbourne phone. So I um it was a big chance to take um and it was a big step. And what I had to look at then is just go, okay, what can I do? I've taken on all responsibility. I don't have that sounding board, I don't have that person um to help me run the show. So the ACL straight away, um, we looked at that and went, you know what, I was auditing the guy's files every single month. I was going through and doing all of those checks. Um, Carl was very big on making sure we had our own ACL so we could look off plan um off panel. Off panel, thank you very much, off panel, and really provide that holistic advice piece. Um, where I looked at it and just went, you know what, let's focus on resie, let's focus on commercial. We're not gonna do asset finance. Uh there's business areas that we don't want to touch on. Let's just stick to our core strengths and simplify that as much as possible. So uh I became credit reps of connective, handed over the compliance obligations to selves and the file auditing, which I do not miss. Are you sure we can give it back to it? No, absolutely not. Uh, and then the financial planning side. Now, it that was based really on focusing on what I can do to streamline this business, but it it has actually become a very beneficial um component. Um, we had some planners that work with us, they now work with some of their own businesses. Um, it's opened up a lot more opportunity for us to part with a lot of people that we couldn't do previously. We were finding 80 to 90% of referrals were going broke into planning. So it wasn't um It's a bit lopsided. Absolutely. And so now we've got planning businesses that we can work with and continue to nurture without the perception of, oh, you've got that broken side of things as well. Yeah. Um, I bought a finance broking book off a financial planning firm and we've got a great working relationship with them as well. So it's opened up a lot, a lot of opportunities and really allowed to focus on what we do and what we do well. So the two brokers uh that I've got, Elliot and Anthony, they just are Resi. That's all they do. Yeah, I do resi, uh commercial, self-managed superfund, all property backed. And again, you see the volume of webinars that Connectives coming out with. Uh, every day there's a new um cash flow, self-managed superfund, new lending, new opportunity, and there's just too much to take in. So we've really tried to strip it back and focus on what we do and do well.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yep. And that that obviously includes putting people with the right skill set in that right lane. And you mentioned before about you know making those, you know, effectively strategic decisions. So we're not going to do this, this, and this. We're going to focus on this and do these few things really, really well. Um, because sometimes strategy is actually choosing where you don't play. Yes. And that's okay. Um, what so in those when you were so you know, all of a sudden become the full business owner, there's a financial plan arm gone, there's an ATL, you know, and workload effectively removed. Thanks very much for that. Um, what were some of the things throughout that transition you had to learn quite quickly as the business owner, as the person making the call, let alone the fact you had to wear all the other hats as well that come with it?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Trying to do everything and be everything to everyone was uh yeah, it was fairly all consuming. And again, with the with the frame of COVID marketing, I remember quite quickly after uh uh the buyout meeting up with a marketing firm that we'd used for a long time, and I had all these grand ideas, and six months later I hadn't actioned anything. Um, I've got the accounting background, so we're doing our own BAS, doing our own payroll, doing everything. So I had to let go of that. Looking at how I was running my business, um, my team will still call me micromanagers a bit strong, but I like to be across everything that's going on. So really had to look at what we were doing, um, the systems and processes that we were working with. And that first uh probably six months was really trying to not realign the business in any way because we were doing incredibly well um before. And uh it was really kind of thinking about what I could do as a business owner to make us more efficient, more effective, and allow me to continue to uh um be client-focused, which I do enjoy doing, and that's still my my key component. Um, but uh continue to build a sustainable business from there.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

And so the the the wearing of many hats is a principal, let alone the fact that it can be at times a bit of a lonely job, you know, you're making decisions that you you can't necessarily engage one of your brokers or one of your staff, so uh unless you're you're engaging with other principles, you know, in WA. But how did you get to a point that enabled you, and you mentioned it before, I can't be everything to everyone. Yeah, and I can't be all over every file. So, what steps did you put in place to have the right uh people and processes around you that enabled you to just focus on what you enjoyed doing and and allowed you to have a bit more bandwidth, I guess?

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Yeah, absolutely. Um coming back to the efficiency side of things, that really was a key component looking at the systems and processes that we've got in place. Um, but then the amount of I suppose training and empowering of the team that we've got, having the the two brokers, I'm very fortunate. Elliot and Anthony have been coming up to nine years, which is uh which is great for this industry. Absolutely. Uh the support team, uh Beck is uh our officer manager, she's currently on Mat Leaf, but she's been with us uh since 2016. Uh Claire, who's my para broker and offsider, she's been with us coming up to two and a half years. Um, and then we've got an on offshore team as well. Uh so we've really looked at um every step within the business who can be doing what in the best way that they can. And it wasn't easy, it took a lot of time building it together. But we've got a really um, I think a very impressive process that we work through with every single client. And to make sure also, whilst there's a few different hands on every application, it's a very seamless and smooth experience.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

You don't want the customer shouldn't feel the change of helmetless.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Absolutely. Yeah. So whether the talk about your client journey, um, consistent communication at key points, templates, documentations, uh, our task lists that pop up in Mercury could be seemed excessive, but we just want to make sure nothing's missed. And whether it's myself or um our support team that's looking after it, it's consistent the entire way through.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Okay. And you you touched on it uh just before, but just again for our audience, take us through the structure of Bespoke and what that looks like for onshore, offshore and roles that you have within the business.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Absolutely. So we've got Elliot and Anthony both with me for nine years. They again focus purely on residential lending. Are you brokers? Yeah, they're the brokers. Uh, they've both got their own skill sets, they've both both got their own referral sources, both individually and within the business as well. Um, the brokers are all supported by parabrokers. Uh, Claire's with me in the office. Jalen now who works with Elliot and Anthony is funnily enough in Canada. So it's technically offshore, but she does uh we'll call it an on-shore. It's almost as offshore as you can get. Yes, absolutely. We were we were laughing earlier uh in the week about um, you know, it's great to have Jalen. Could that be an offshore role? I was like, she's in Canada, man. She she is offshore. She's as offshore as you get. It's amazing how um when you adjust to thinking you can make those work. Um, and then so Beck, who's the office manager, and then we have Joe, who is in the Philippines, so she's with uh uh VA Platinum. Yes. Uh and then we have Mina, who is our I don't like the word, it's a bank word, but she's our retention officer. Yep. She looks after our backbook as well. So everyone has clear roles uh within the business. Um again, uh the file starts with Joe, then moves to the parabroker, back and forth within the parabroker and the broker. We should be at the point where by the time it gets to us, it's essentially the advice has been given, it's ready to go, and the team can follow through from settlement.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

And and underpinning all of that sounds like there's really strong systems and processes that you've implemented over the years to get it to a point where the you know the experiences for the customer is fantastic. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah, and that that time particularly, I I held off for one reason or another the uh the offshore component of the business for quite a while. Um, that's something that I retrospectively should have done a lot sooner.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Was that a personal bias? It's a group was that because you just preferred to have everyone onshore, or you just didn't you weren't a fan of the offshore option?

SPEAKER_02 15:30

There was a few different components. One, how would that impact from a client-facing side of things if the communication's coming through? Uh, two, I like the team culture. I like building the team, having people in the office. Um, three, there's I suppose whether you call it data security and all those uh hesitations that one might have. Uh, and then really the other component, which I'd been told by a few people in the industry, was the training and the onboarding and that side of thing, and how long it would take to get that person up to speed. Um, so Joe's RVA, she is phenomenal. Shout out to May uh from Platinum. Um, Joe is phenomenal, and she again, um, the up, the ups, how quickly she came on board, it was within six weeks, she was doing stuff that the onshore team would probably take a year and a half to two years before we get there.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

So the training wasn't necessarily well, what you were told about, oh, it's gonna take a long time or it's difficult, was not necessarily the case in in your experience.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

And and I and I know we're very fortunate with Joe. She is phenomenal. Uh, that is not the rule. There's always going to be different situations. Of course. But that can happen onshore as well, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

We don't always get it right. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

And then we what we looked at is you call it your D, your C, your B, your A jobs. Uh, our onshore team was spending a lot of time doing things, bank statement reviews, uh, credit checks, valuations, renaming documents, all those fun things, uh, the joys of the barefoot investor and everyone's now got 50 bank accounts. So um, we still want to make sure we're following a very clear system and process to make sure nothing's missed and we're maintaining our compliance and getting a good outcome. But we wanted to make sure we could enable uh the parabrokers and the onshore team so we could upskill them. So, you know, your DNC jobs come off their tables, they can help the brokers with their the B and A jobs, and that means the brokers can really be client-focused on uh appointments, following up new scenarios, doing the actual analytical side as opposed to just sitting in our own boxes as we tend to find ourselves doing.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

So categorize them based on complexity or time, and then person with the right skill set performs the duties.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

And I imagine that also gives some of the team go, right, if I'm doing C and D type jobs, but I can aspire and um enable myself to learn the A and B type jobs as well. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

So we're in the process of bringing on um uh a second VA. Um so that is going to be empowering Jo to help Jo um progress in her role and look at the you call it your your C and B roles and so and that will again enable Claire and Jalen to be doing more uh for the brokers and create the brokers more. So uh it's really making sure again that consistency, that service, that client experience remains the same, but essentially help sharing that load and upskilling the team.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, correct, which I imagine would be a bit of a um that's a retention play. Absolutely. People are more enabled, generally they're more engaged. Yeah, they feel like they're contributing more and they're learning.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

I'd like to think, I mean, the I'd like to think we have a great team and a great culture and the the office environment where we've got two brokers that have been with me for nine years, which again from the industry uh I know can be a bit transient, uh, and then the support team that we've got as well. So if we're continually looking at ways where our team can progress, evolve in their roles, continue to learn, not feel that, I suppose, stagnant side of things. That's um yeah, what we struggle.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

I'm sure they're all going to be watching and they'll give you feedback on that anyway. Um you mentioned, I think it was Mina's role. Uh that's cut customer engagement, customer experience, retention. It it all fits in, but that's you've mentioned in the past a bit of a standout role for you. Absolutely. Talk, talk to us a bit about when you got to that point to really focus on your backbook, your customer backbook, and then um if there's anything that you can rattle off off the top of your head, what's that done in terms of change for the business and any stats that you got as well?

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah. Uh so again, COVID actually was quite um formative, it's not the right. Yeah, uh, reshape the business during that time. So, particularly February, March, April 2020, um, where essentially banks didn't stop lending, but there was a bit of a speed bump put on the uh few breaks, I should say, put in the industry. Uh, we also had a lot of our clients at home very concerned about what was happening. So we were turning into a financial counselor, realistically. So we were spending six, seven hours a day on phone calls with people that had generally 30 minutes that they just wanted to go what's going on. Yeah. Um, so during that time, we really realized a the power of our back book, but also this is something we really need to make sure we're looking after. Um, one, because our clients deserve to have that ongoing service and want to make sure that we're still there. But two, we also need to make sure we can focus on our new clients coming in as well. So Mina had previously been with the business and during that 2020 period, we thought we need someone that's gonna come in and really just focus on our existing client database. Uh, often you find when you're trying to balance looking after rate reviews and switches and variations when you've got new opportunities coming through, you're gonna focus on the new opportunity. Um so Mina's role is is really to start that again.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Um so uh well, you can just go into the answer. Yeah, because Lockie will cut it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Um, Mina's role is to look after every single one of our existing clients. So she does somewhere between 120 to 150 reviews every month. So every single client uh gets an email from Mina confirming we've looked at your rates, this is where we're at. Uh if it's off market or if it's the bank's not looking after them, we'll give them a nudge or at least lets them know that uh each year we're checking in for them on those loans. Best case scenario, we'll always follow with a phone call from the broker or an email from the broker as well. So they're getting two touch points there. But essentially what happens is every single year, every single client knows that we're looking after them. They don't have to contact us for a rate review. And if a client does contact us, we can be like, well, we looked at this six months ago for you. Here's the outcome, here's what we're looking for as well. Um, a big component is we weren't looking to drive refinances. So we weren't looking for MANA to create opportunities for refinances. Uh, we've got clients that have been had their loans, you know, six, seven, eight years with lenders. And it's good for the lenders, it's great for us, um, it's good for the client because we're not moving them from bank to bank. Uh, and it means we can continue to focus on bringing in new clients that we can work with as opposed to just refinancing our existing clients as well. Uh, it does create opportunities if you're calling your clients every year and letting them know, hey, we've looked after you again. Um, that invariably can lead to referrals, repeat business, that sort of things. But we do have a very sticky book as a result. Um I think there's probably maybe one or two every every month where we might have a loan appear that we're not sure why that dropped off.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Like a discharge or a pay. Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

So we'll there'll be call it one a month. There'll be a discharge and there might be 30 or 40 discharges a month. One a month, we're like not sure what happened there. Um the rest, it's a refinance, a restructure, it's a top up, it's a bridge, it's someone's paid out their properties, it's sold. So we go through every single month, look at every single discharge. What happened there, what happened there. Again, all part of me and his role. Uh, and if something has dropped off, we can have a phone call with the client to just figure out, hey, could we have done something better there or what have we missed?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

So that that's that's yourselves looking at how could we have improved because you've got a regular cadence of contact and support.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

So between the Mercury newsletters, uh, so there's 12 of them a year. I think there's eight RBAs at the moment. So that's 20 plus the anniversary review plus the phone call. So there's 22 touch points to our clients each year, uh, along with any social media or other things that we do for clients as well. So if a client's dropped off after that many touch points, and again, we've reviewed their loan six, seven times, we're really just looking at it going, what could we have done here? What have we missed? If anything, yeah. A lot of the time, like new partner, there could be a separation, they've sold a property. Yeah, it's very rare. Oh, you know, jumped online and found a better option. So there's there's generally a reason. Um, but again, continuous business improvement. What could we be doing better?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah, I like that. Uh, it's a it's a way of saying, Oh, you've gone and done this without me too. Oh, help us understand how we could have been absolutely better.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

And one thing I think I learned very early on is those phone calls. It's see the loans dropped off, just wanted to check in and see what happened. If they've gone into a branch and be refinanced by a branch, or if they've gone to another broker because of a lot, not a problem. That's completely fine. And it'll always be, well, if something changes in the future, feel free to reach out. Because if you make sure that even when someone leaves you, it's a good experience and it's a nice piece of communic communication. If something changes, they'll come back to you. Or they might go, you know what, uh, if an opportunity comes up, I might pass on Chris's details.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Which is a great way to look at it because it it's always happened, it's probably going to continue to happen. There will always be situations. Yeah, and so it's the mindset of going, all right, well, we're still here for you. And when you want to come back, come back. Or if you think there'd be anyone else that you know that would benefit from our services, feel free to pass on my details.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

I mean, some of these clients might be six or seven years they've been on our books, and we might have done four or five applications. So if you're salty about you know a change in their life circumstances, that's not a great way to run it. No, I know.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

It's a it's a good, it's a good mindset to have. Yeah. But so just on that, with with a with a dedicated focus on the retention and the back book, you know, your existing client base, think about it from a commercial perspective, um, if you're willing. Just share with the audience what it's done from, because you mentioned it wasn't about drumming up refinances, but just as a byproduct, have you got any info or stats and insights on what that has done?

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Absolutely. So we our marketing strategy within the business, um, we're not big on Google AdWords, we don't do letterbox drops, we um, you know, we're not promoting on that side of things. Everything that we're doing is really pushing back into our existing database. So um, from a marketing point of view, uh, it's all about brain awareness. Uh, we do gift hampers, we do when clients send us, uh, I'll articulate that better, uh, we have a monthly run where we'll pick five clients or five referrants that might have referred us off the cuff and we'll send them a present to say, hey, thank you very much. Thank you for the referring. Yeah, exactly. So everything that we're doing is really client focused and our existing book focused. And as a result of that, and also the amazing work that Meaned us, um, 88%. I was looking at this yeah uh last year, 88% of our settled loans last year came from our existing database. So that's exactly existing clients or uh coming back or referring new clients through. So we do have some real estate agents, we do have some accountants, we do have some financial planners that support us and we support them. However, that's uh an add-on, if you will. The business looks after itself. Um, and again, just that retention of the existing clients. And when you, I think when you service clients well, the leads come. If you look after them, uh not only do they not leave, it just feeds itself.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

They become your biggest advocates, best form of marketing, or best one of the and you know, a simple thing of uh spontaneous hamper. Someone might have sent you uh a large client or two clients over a few months, or you might not have heard them for a while. Um, a hamper ups up with a bottle of bubbles, a water bottle, and a thank you card, those type of little things uh can turn one referral into 10.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Correct, right? That's the one percenters that ensure people feel more of a value or creation of value as opposed to the dumb I loan and nothing else. But it doesn't sound like that's the case anyway. Not how we approach it. Yeah, I love it. Good work. So you've built a business, it sounds like not just Mina, but you've got a great team behind you. So shout out to the bespoke team. Um almost self-sustaining. So are you spending your days on the golf course or surfing all these days or long distance running? Or what are you doing? How do you fill in your days now?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Well, uh, two boys, uh three and four, um currently going through kindy and pre-kindy. Um I'm I'm working a little bit reduced hours uh just to spend some more time with them.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

And uh I'm so is that across days or hours or particular both?

SPEAKER_02 27:12

So Tuesday and Friday I essentially do a half day. Yep. Um that was a decision we made as a family, and um I'll I don't think I'll ever look back and go, you know, I wish I worked more during those formative years. So um really fortunate. And again, shout out to my team, um uh, particularly uh Claire, who runs the show for me. Um they've enabled me to take a step back, not all the way from the business in any way, um, but just give me a bit more flexibility to be there for my family and continue to operate the way we have. And it's been so surprising. I I spoke with a few brokers that have, you know, gone down to the four-day weeks, and I was like, that's that's never gonna happen. How how is that possible? And in the space of two years, I'm I'm essentially working three and a half days per week with a lot of late nights. Yeah, let's be honest. Oh, they're not, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh you find the time. Yep. Um, but the business uh our volumes have increased. We've never been busier, and that's with me stepping away from the business as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

So but still very much on the tools, it's still riding business.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's amazing how much more efficient you can be when you have less time, yeah, which is staggering. Yeah, just seems odd, doesn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Less time, but better at my job.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah. Oh, good on you. Well that and that's great because no one often say to a few people in 20 years' time, the only people that'll know you worked late are your kids. Yeah. Right. So we're there. So I love that you've made a conscious decision to do that. Yeah, for that as a family.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

It's a great industry for that. I mean, whenever you guys want to have a holiday or take some time off, it's the flexibility's there, school drop-offs, um, assemblies. I know this goes through the entire industry, uh, particularly from a broken community. One of the draw cards is you set your own hours, you can have that availability. So yeah, very fortunate that I found my way into this industry when I did.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah, I like that. And it and it is, you know, whether it's family or for your own health and well-being, I need to get to the gym three times a week. It's about holding yourself to account to be fiercely protective of that time to ensure that you're looking after you, each and every one of you out there, and therefore you can be the best you can be for both from a business perspective and also from a personal perspective. Yeah, absolutely. Which is great. Um, just want to touch on Chris. So uh someone in Canada, off offshore, off offshore. You've got the Philippines, you've got you're over in WA, you know. So uh how do you manage the culture of the team? Because you've mentioned there's some people with long tenures within the business. So what do you do as the owner to ensure the culture is one of a one-team approach?

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Absolutely. Well, that's um really was a focus at the start of this year. Um, I I'm not gonna lie, me dropping down to three days per week, having people all over the place. It's not it's not perfect. So we've had to adjust them, we've had to make um some changes. Uh, one that we bought in at the start of the year, um, we have our team meeting every second Thursday. Um, and then uh the following Thursday, so um uh subsequent Thursdays, we just jump on and do a half an hour lunch catch-up. So the rule is no talk about work, it's just jumping online, having a chat. I think uh the team on Thursday, uh Jalen made a suggestion that we all watch the uh OJ Simpson documentary on Netflix. So they're gonna be running through that together. Right. Um uh Claire ran a um uh uh bingo bingo session for us as well. So trying to integrate those things in there. Um uh Joe, I mean, the teams, teams, a lot of teams traffic uh as well. Uh Joe, I check in with a couple of times a week, um, particularly Jalen and Claire who are working with Joe, there's always that feedback and communication through as well. So uh it is tricky. Um certainly again, COVID taught us uh we can work externally, but finding that balance between making sure it's a cohesive unit and everyone's feeling loved and supported. Um yeah, yeah, something we're continually evolving with.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

I think, and that that's that's um that's great because it's you're you're saying, you know, we're not professor, we've got everything right. We're always looking to be better, we're always looking to create a culture that people want to come to work. Um I imagine some of those things are your staff going, hey, I wouldn't mind doing this, or but it's just we we do so much at times that's just the release of the valve, and and I'm sure there's plenty of our listeners that will say, right, we're downing tools at two o'clock and we're going to you know do lawn bowls together. And but it's something that's obviously consistent in your business.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Absolutely. And uh even last Friday we hit a pretty cool milestone within the business. Um, so the onshore team, we went out uh to lunch with Best with some of the other connective team. Um Jalen, I I sent uh essentially an Uber voucher for her. She locked uh got a favourite Fred Jacob Uber. Absolutely, yeah. I clocked off early. Um and we sent some money uh to Jo and she actually went out to lunch with some of the team there. Um I told her to clock off early, she didn't. Yep. Uh but so things like that, just trying to make sure if the onshore teams, you know, celebrate the milestones, very important. Um, but if we're doing something making sure that the offshore team is feeling that as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah, I think it's really important, and that's um that's great advice. So uh just on that in terms of advice, Chris. So, you know, thanks for sharing throughout the course of today. But if you had to just share a couple of key points to our listeners on anything that you think is most important for people trying to build their business and or take it to the next level or even scaling it back, um, what would those two pieces of advice be?

SPEAKER_02 32:23

I think picking what you want to do and do it very well. So just really target your focus. So again, um I've got the accounting background, I do like tax returns and financials. I know I'm probably unique from that side of things, um, but I want to do Regie because I like that client communication and I want to focus on commercial and self-managed super fun because I get a uh I've you know I've explained what the first home buyers grant is for 15 years. I like the the additional stimulus, um, but that's what I do and that's what I want to be doing. Uh Elliot and Anthony are very successful because they are Reggie brokers. That's what they want to be focusing on. Um, if you're focusing on car finance, if you're focusing on alternative lending, non-conforming, if you're trying to wear all of those hats, particularly as a smaller business, you can get lost. And you're finding you're not really doing any of them really well. Whereas if you can just be a gun in your specific area, it shows and you get more clients from there. So we've got some great businesses within Perth. Um shout out to the driven finance guys, our car deals go there. Um, and we yeah, again, really just focusing on that core side of things. Uh, the other one would really be looking at your own systems and processes and making sure you have a very clear client journey about how you want that client experience to look and building in, we are quite tech heavy, but building in pieces of technology that A make the client journey better and smoother for them, but also increase your efficiencies as well. So that was something that we've really continued to evolve and adapt. And again, bringing in the offshore, we had to adjust again, but really focusing on efficiencies and your client journey to make sure they have a great experience and then focusing on what you do and you what you do well.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Yeah, it's the having ACEs in their places, you know, with clear strengths. Just on that last one of systems and processes, how often do you or some of the team or all of the team step away from the business to look at your processes for improvements? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Uh so topical, uh I think two weeks ago, for the first time in a few months, um uh all the support team jumped on a Teams together and went through okay, what are we all doing? How's this working? How's this working? Okay, Jalen, how are you integrating with Joe in this situation and Claire as well? So we do have a new team member coming on board. Um, it probably took a couple of months to really iron out when Joe came on, exactly who was doing what. That was a big piece of work that we put together. Uh, but having the taking the time, as you said, to step away, something we did just recently uh and straight away uh I know Jalen's Jalen's a lot happier with what she's doing, um, and we're a lot more efficient and it's consistent through the team as well. So we can always get bogged down, and I know I'm one of the worst in just her working on as opposed to in the business, so working in as opposed to on, um, but ensuring you're doing that and taking a step back as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Yeah, and we we often hear that from some of our key groups that we'll step away. It's a regular thing they do throughout the course of the year. Just finding those inches, finding those minutes to make them better. Um, you've you've done a lot of shout-outs of people. You probably need to give a quick shout-out to the family if you want to say a quick hello.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Absolutely. Shanoka, Jordan, Tommy, sorry for letting you at four o'clock this morning. Uh, I hope the depth few days go well and we'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

We'll have you back. We'll have him back before you know it. Chris, it's been an absolute pleasure having you in the studio today. We really appreciate it. We really appreciate sharing a bit of your experience uh with our audience. Uh, sometimes, as a result of these, you might find that some of our connected members reach out to you just for some guidance and advice. So you never know. Really appreciate it. Thanks again for Chris for sharing. Really loved having you here and for you sharing your story and how you've grown your business. Thanks to all of our listeners. We wish you every success for 2026 and beyond. Bye for now.