Leading Broker Series – Brad Clucas in conversation with Clinton Waters, Axton Finance

In this episode, Brad Clucas connects with Clinton Waters, Owner and Director of Axton Finance, to discuss practical strategies for getting more out of your CRM and streamlining everyday business operations. 

Clinton explores how custom templates and automated workflows can improve efficiency, alongside practical tips for managing email more effectively to reduce clutter and save time. He also discusses using personalised CRM data and digital tools to create more meaningful client interactions, strengthen relationships and deliver a seamless customer experience. 

A practical session for brokers looking to improve productivity, enhance client engagement and unlock the full potential of their CRM. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Hello, and welcome to Connective the Talk Series. Today we're joined by Brad Klukas and Clinton Waters as they delve into practical strategies for getting more out of your CRM and streamlining everyday business operations.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Today we will hear from our very own Clint Waters, one of our Connective brokers. Today's topic from cottage to company, taking your brokerage to the next level. Clint is a highly regarded leader in the industry. As the founder and principal mortgage broker at Axon Finance, he combines deep expertise with a forward-thinking approach, leveraging off the shelf technology, so leveraging off-the-shelf technology to enhance client outcomes and streamlined lending solutions. Beyond his client-focused work, Clint plays a pivotal role in mentoring his team of brokers and administrative staff. Fostering a culture of excellence and motivation and innovation. Outside of the office, Clint enjoys sailing, mountain biking, and staying active. He also values quality time and traveling with his wife and two young boys. Clint brings unique strengths and perspectives to the table, and we're excited to learn from his expertise on how best to take your brokerage to the next level in today's webinar. With that out of the way, I'd like to welcome Clint. Thanks for joining us today, mate.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Thanks, Brad. Thanks very much for having me. That's very flattering.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Oh, look, it's uh, you know, we're we're very happy to have you here. Thank you. Uh, and for you being a long-standing member of Connective as well. So I'm sure there's many people that are keen to hear about your journey and uh take from it your learnings, what you do differently, um and we'll cover off on all that. So again, thanks so much. All right, so the journey so far. So, Clint, how about we start by taking us through a bit about your journey from loan riding broker to becoming a business owner?

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah, um, well, I'll give you a fairly short version of it, but I've been doing this for a bit over 23, 24 years. And um, I uh set up Axton Finance after having another business partner for 10 years. And 10 years ago, I decided to actually change the name of the business and remove myself as being the identity of the business. So Axton actually means the cornerstone of a building, so the underpinnings of a foundation. It's an old English word apparently. And uh easy to spell, two syllables, got an X in it, um, and uh and it works. So it was about creating a business that was um going to have some scale about it, and that we could utilize the um the tech stack and the platforms that were available to us off the shelf to achieve more with less. And um, over a period of time, I was always the you know the higher performing broker or the you know the central broker within the practice. And I enjoyed that immensely, and I've done that for a very long period of time. And I guess one of the challenges of being you know self-employed and when you're the principal of the business is it's very difficult to change your role. You know, you can't just go and apply for another job. It's entrenched. Uh, so I then identified that I'd be able to then so take that old adage of extract myself out of being that high performing broker and then focus on what I could do in terms of helping build out the business uh for further growth.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

And so was there a particular turning point that got you to the stage where you say, right, I need to, I need to make this call or draw a line in the sand uh that enabled you to step away from writing loans to that next level?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Uh yeah, I would say it was circa around about 2023. So it was after COVID, and we had obviously some pretty good times market conditions-wise, and um was running very hard and um had um structured the team to a stage whereby I started recognizing our our model was going to be appealing um to you know the more experienced broker that was, you know, tired of being the one-man band. And I felt that uh I was getting tired for want of a better word, a little bit burnt out of having done thousands and thousands of client meetings and giving credit advice, which don't get me wrong, I you know, I enjoy. I still I still do it today, but not not as much. Um and I thought, well, this is a great opportunity. It was almost like a calling that I was, I was, I was getting tired and burnt out and I could uh pivot myself in 23. And I sort of decided on having this, I had these grand plans of you know, sabbatical and stuff, and never taking long service leave. And um, I worked remotely um pretty effectively during 2023, and um, I did take my foot off the gas um a fair bit in that year, and it did enable me to just look at it uh holistically and make some decisions around what levers am I gonna pull to make this change about making the business more efficient and uh operating um with me not being the key rainmaker.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

And obviously recognising for your own well-being and as a husband and a father, foot off the gas just to look after yourself, but to give yourself that opportunity to look across the balcony and go, okay, if I'll achieve here, something's got to change, obviously. So um, so you made that call, and then no doubt, as you said, you're entrenched in the role. No doubt there would have been a transition period. So, how did you find and how long did it take the transition period to get to you know the business owner and off the tools or minimizing your time on the tools?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Uh part of it started with um one of the brokers that was on board um with us at Axton. He and I um always spoke about business and structures, and we identified a way that we'd be able to put a structure in place that enabled brokers within our business to transition from you know a celebrate employee to a partner broker, and then it created an environment whereby, you know, it's almost too good to leave, but without the golden hand uh golden uh handcuffs. Yeah. And um so part of it was, you know, sort of nutting out this, you know, the structural aspects of the business. And I started with, you know, looking at um, you know, what our um volumes were and identifying, you know, what our overheads were and you know, not getting too granular, but really working out like, you know, what are the key performance metrics in this business? You know, looking at it from a profit and loss and and and um uh what we needed to put in place to ensure that like I could keep the profitability of the business, but without me being the guy that's you know banging away, you know, writing a hundred million bucks a year and um and and working very hard, as well as wearing every other hat in the business. Um so yeah, it was a discussion around that and what the model needed to look like, as well as like what the structure needed to look like in terms of what moving parts are in the business, you know, what our org structure looks like in a present state with what a proposed state looks like. Yep. And then being able to sort of make decisions around what needed to be done to achieve that.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, great. And that's that's one of the things that when you hear brokers talk about, we're here now, aspirationally, we like to be there. So what's the chipping away of the steps that need to take place or the sequence of events in order to achieve the goal? Or and in any case, you'll be more progressive anyhow. Um, so no doubt challenges, lessons, you know, in decentralizing the business as well come into play. Um so what are some of the biggest um challenges you face, you know, in decentralizing your business operations?

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Uh any broker that's been doing this for a long time will recognize the thing I'm probably about to say, but it's probably fear, you know, it's the fear of actually letting go and then thinking about like what your clients were gonna say. You know, some of my clients, you know, were looking after their kids now, and um, you know, it's been a very strong referral network. And a lot of I had this sort of personal concern of, well, what are my clients going to think? You know, but the reality is that you're not as important as you think you are, as you think you are. And um so by being able to articulate with that the clients and explain to them saying, you know, I've stepped back uh to enable the growth of the business and you know, deliver a better outcome and a better service proposition as a result. And the clients are like, yeah, cool, no problems. Particularly when you've got a great team around you. And you could say, you know, I'm able to, you know, get one of my partner brokers, they're all highly experienced, they're as good as me at uh proffering the advice. And that that was a fear, but it was, you know, it was probably overstated in my own mind. Um, so that um once I overcame that, the next thing that was quite difficult was actually trying to um uh take it down a gear in terms of you're running so hard, you're seeing clients, you're wearing, you know, all the other caps in the business, and you're trying to market the business and you're running the operation side of it, and you're running the finance side of it, and you know, things are going at a great rate of knots. So really trying to you know work out of like, okay, how can I sort of pull yourself back a bit? Yeah, say no a little bit. Yeah. Right. So that then you could focus on what you should be doing instead of what you historically have been doing. And um, there are so many times that I've been to so many PD days and uh conferences and events and you know, things like this, and then you go away and you're like, what am I gonna do next? Yeah. I'm gonna go check my emails and I'll return the phone calls, and then you're just straight off into that um into that habit. Yeah, and and uh it's almost you know, ripping the band-aid off to say, no, I actually need to dedicate the time, you know, boulder it out and and do it. Uh, because if you don't, it you you're just gonna be on that treadmill and the change is gonna be a lot more gradual than it probably needs to be, um, which is probably one of my regrets, is that I took a lot longer to get to this conscious decision in 23 um to think about you know how I could restructure the business and and build it more into a business than than a uh brokerage about myself.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yeah, and and part of that as well, the restructuring is allowing you to bring the right people into the business, um, real clear um or clarity on the role in which they play. So you can confidently hand over to them, you can um speak with conviction to your customers to say, you're actually in great hands here as I pass from myself to Clint. Um, in some cases, some people in the business might have someone that's better than that than them at that, which actually releases you to go and do what you need to do. Um, to your point, many different hats, you know, um when you're leading people and running a business, of course. So what about some of the strategies um that maybe didn't work so well that you want to share um when you were trying to remove yourself from um from daily loan writing?

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Um I mean breaking is always about changing um things incrementally. Um and uh it's very easy having shiny object syndrome in terms of making change. You go to a um, you know, you go to a seminar or something like that, and you see a new piece of software, and you're like, that's gonna fix my problems. But the reality is that it probably isn't. Um and recognizing like over the years and particularly the last few years, what I recognize is that the tools that we've got available at our disposal, you know, through our partnership with Connective, uh are entirely satisfactory and can be leveraged to a very high degree to give you a lot of efficiency in the business. And um that was sometimes a challenge because you are you know, you you are try you're trialing, trialing and erring, you know, by you know going out outside of the ecosphere that we've got. And there's a big cost to that, not just in what you pay for the software, but for the time that you invest in in trying to implement it and then you know, um unpack it and then repack it and then unpack it back to what you were doing again. Um so that that was a bit tricky. Um one of the other things too is just definitely with regards to you know what your business model looks like. Um the uh I think a business plan is like paramount, but it just doesn't need to be this huge, complicated document. You know, having a plan on a page has been really useful for me for identifying, you know, what some of the key metrics are and what we're trying to achieve within the business. Um, and then building things out that are uh measurable to see how you're going. And of course, for us, you know, like book growth is one of them, you know, our conversions. And there's a lot of systems that are available within Nexus, like the Power BI reports um in the analytics app section. Yeah, really cool. Um it's uh shout out to Piltie because I give him a lot of questions, a lot of questions, and he and he comes up with a lot of answers. But it can really give you a lot of um insight into the performance of what your business is doing. Um and the data's there. Yeah. So if you put good information into your platform, which is Nexus, um, it will spit out remarkable insights into what you can achieve with your business without having to extract it and get a business analyst and you know, generate these reports that that, you know, that are always being manually updated. So yeah, it was really very much about of looking in your own backyard before going too far and definitely making sure that you know that your business model and structure make sense. Um, you know, REM structures for brokers is a constant, you know, like it's just a it's just a non-stop, there's no perfect individual model. Correct. Um, and you know, and it's always evolving. Like it's never just sort of set in stone. Um, but you know, some models I think have become a little bit outdated. Um and um, you know, straight up percentages, for example, I think is um doesn't work in a in a very long period of time. Um and we've lost some really good brokers because you know it starts getting outweighted and they're like, well, what value are you providing? Um so you know, our model is trying to accommodate that, but as well recognize, you know, that you know, our business has got overheads that that are not getting any uh lena.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

They're not yeah, they're not decreasing, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Yeah, they're not uh not decreasing. Um and um the the the reporting tells you so. Um so it's um yeah, it's uh that's probably the the main points. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

So I like the fact you you know a plan on even on a page doesn't need to be an exorbitant 40-page PowerPoint, right? But obviously at least start because you can't hit a target or a goal that you can't see. Yeah, and then you can start to think about what else is there. Um the data analytics app, for example, will will show you as a business owner where you need to focus your time, energy, and effort. Um, because there's usually two things if you want to do, for example, book growth and set volumes, um, get more leads or improve your efficiencies, and the analytics app allows you to focus on improving your efficiencies. So um so that's great. So looking back, Clint, would there be um one or two things you would have done differently in the transition phase?

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yep. Um well, firstly, one of the things I'd say it's probably it's not a regret, but it's just something that I can reflect on and recognize now is that I probably had this idea in the back of my mind for quite some time, and I was just just too busy. And there were too many other distractions, not distractions, but too many other things going on in my life that to be able to then say, all right, well, you know, what am I going to do to actually put this into effect? Um, couple that with the fear of actually doing it. So my regret was probably not doing it, you know, just always talking about it, yeah, maybe talking with another industry peer. You know, I've had a couple of business coaches over the time as well, and you know, you you sort of discuss it with them to sort of spitball the concept. And I sort of look back on it now and um I'm very um happy and I feel you know a degree of relief of actually having made that decision because if if I kept on that trajectory, I think that you know I was I was just destined for a you know a burnout and I was getting you know pretty short-tempered and crappy and I was annoying at home. My wife's saying I'm still amber. But um, you know, and and that can reflect in the workplace as well. So um, you know, I think that if you've got a a concept, even if it's then just getting it out in a bullet point, you know, put it into your notes section on your phone and reflect back on it or a goal that you want to try and achieve. And it's so cliche, but it just bloody works, right? Like unless you can put a vision to it, it's very hard to actually achieve it.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah. And that's one of the things that for my partnership managers that are out at the moment and talking to principal owners such as yourself, what are the goals for 2025? It can mean that that's beyond 2025, of course. But so, you know, for any of you thinking about it, remove yourself probably from the business, go and grab a coffee, turn off the phone, and just write a couple of dot points of what you wish to achieve because that might become part of the future state. Um, and like most people, they'll say, I wish I had done it earlier, but on the flip side, you could have still been that, you know, that broker that's all on you. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

And I I definitely say that if you're gonna do that doesn't necessarily mean that what you write on the paper is like what you have to achieve. But it's a I think it's a really good starting point, like whether it's like your book growth or your settlements or that you want to improve your um your profit margin or your eBay or out of the out of the business. Um, there's no right or wrongs to it. But once you start writing it down and then you start making decisions to what you know, what this is about, it can start, you know, to flesh out change within your business and your operations. Um, but before you do that, is just always um think about you know the why, why, why are you doing it, right? Like I think that um when I speak to brokers about you know, what are your objectives, and they say, um, you know, I want to write more because I'm gonna make my remuneration's gonna be higher, I'm gonna make a higher income. Um, it's like, yeah, cool, we all want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

But why do you want to do that? You know, what's it gonna achieve? And um it uh it it there was um it comes back to your decision-making um uh process that gives you purpose as to like why you get out of bed and what you do. Because you know, I'm never gonna say that I wish I sat in front of my computer more and that I saw and wrote more loans or I spent more time in the business. I'm passionate about what I do in my business, but I have a pretty good work-life balance, you know, to try and stay healthy outside of the business and you know, to get joy out of the things that you know what my business gives me uh the choice to achieve.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah. And we spoke about that briefly before the webinar, about the choice you have and um probably how much better and powerful you are outside of work as well. Um doesn't take anything away with you know the level of commitment dedication you give to Axton and the and the staff within it. And I was only at your office a couple of weeks ago, so you could that was clearly evidence. So um really great things there and great advice so far. Let's um let's flip it around to a different um different track now. So, terms of structuring the business for growth, so you've spoken a bit about you and your transition, but how is Axton finance structured now in terms of roles and responsibilities?

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Uh so I spoke a little bit about the org chart. Um and if you haven't done it, you need to do it. If you're a if you're a small business and particularly if you've got a couple of brokers, um it's gonna look pretty boring. It's gonna look like a traditional org chart. Um, but until you really start to identify that, yeah, as a principal, you wear a lot of hats and you juggle a lot of balls. Um, it's what balls that you can um you know delegate and give control to someone else that you know that that you can trust and you know they have the capability set to execute on, um, that it helps you then start making a decision about what your future state is. And then having a future state in terms of what your org chart looks like relative to the goals, what you're trying to achieve in the business. Um, so that that is definitely um like I think a pretty important first step to make a you know decisions around what you're gonna do next.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Okay, good. And I mean again, it allows you to bring in the right people into the business. So ACE is in their places as well. You mentioned the word trust, you've got to trust in your people.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yeah, so from the structure and and the team of the people as well, that um I think it's really important as well is like to make appointments um that have a really strong focus on values.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Um and people say, yeah, culture in your business is stuff. And yes, yeah, that's critically important, but you know, culture can't come unless they've got the right values in terms of the business. And um for the absolute most part, like we work in a really good industry, you know, people really get a buzz out of you know what they do and helping other people, and you know, people trust you enormously in terms of what you do. And, you know, I always chuckle that, you know, like we've got best interest duties, it's a legislative, you know, requirement. I'm like, why do we need that, right? Like if you start with, hey, look, you know, deliver great client outcomes first and foremost and settle loans second, that will just be part of the natural progression in terms of like your business growth. If you just put your client outcomes first before your own bid, um, then um it's much easier being successful. So, you know, when I look in terms of like the people that we've got on our team, um, then that is a really important decision when they come on board. And um, I said before, you know, we've had people come and go out of the team, and it's not necessarily because, you know, like it was a bad fit from a values or cultural perspective, um, but it, you know, it may have been that, you know, structurally I didn't have the right structure in place that, you know, was an incentive enough to to stay. So it's always this evolution to make these decisions to get the structure right. Um, and you know, REM structures in broking is is super important. So, you know, you always sort of trying to make that as effective as effective as possible, but without making it so that it's the golden handcuffs that, oh, if you leave, then you know there's a big consequence by leaving.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, correct. You almost want to build them up. And so the the the comma, the REM structure for brokers is such a common theme. But you want to build them up um so that they and give them something that's fair and right for the business and right for your customers, as you said, but that that and treat them so that they don't want to leave, of course. Yeah. Um but it's not to say we don't get it right. Um, you know, that happens across any business as well. So it but it's all learning throughout the process in any case, so which is great. Um so mate, last year uh you brought another connective brokerage, so congratulations. So how has that acquisition in 2024 contributed to the business's growth and evolution?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah, so when I was looking in terms of like what our growth was, and one of our metrics is you know, to um grow our mortgage book um to a value that um you know that's my target, and and I looked at the various ways that we could do it. You know, I could keep writing loans, we could market more, we could spend more on our SEM and digital strategy and marketing, or we could look at acquisition. And uh I th I see acquisition as a really interesting opportunity. The in the marketplace at the moment. Um, because uh I'm 47 now and um I sort of look ahead and say, look, I've got another you know 10, 15 years of going hard, and I really enjoy this, particularly the rebirth of my role. And um looking at uh other uh business operators in the business, there are um there are some guys out there that are doing exactly what we're doing in duplicate. And nothing's getting easier. The compliance obviously is, you know, it's become more, the marketing has become hyper competitive, and that um duplication that small operators are um basically deploying on a daily basis is I think a bit of a frustration for you know some of the older guys or the guys that are out there just by themselves, you know, like they're just working from home by themselves, feeling them, funneling their way sort of uh through. And um I felt that through acquisition, I'd I was able to say, we've got a really great model that is attractive. Um, it gives an opportunity for an event to take place, you know, for a capital realization, which every broker thinks about, right? Like, okay, yeah, sure, I'm gonna build my book and I'm gonna, you know, build it up to uh being, you know, a multiple. Um you know, brokers always just get fixated on the on the multiple aspect. And as a small operator, and if you're one or two guys, then that's what your business is typically valued at, right? Like it's always just a fairly simple metric. Yep. Whereas I think that um starting to see now some of the older guys are thinking about, you know, how do I exit out of the industry? How do I get that capital realization? Um, I still want to be in broking. Yep. So, you know, it was a natural progression in terms of us being able to say, hey, we can be a great home for your clients. Um, you can get a capital event, um, it will give growth to our business. Um you know, I know you you're a great broker because you've built a great business. So we're able to, you know, uh bring them in, merge, remove the duplication. They then get rid of all the you know, the overheads and the stress of running everything else, and then we can provide that without having to um, you know, for for them to essentially, you know, do the do it themselves. Um, so I think that this is um a growing trend in that older brokers are looking at opportunity in terms of like how they can, you know, maybe partner up with an established team that's really efficient. Um, and how do they get that outcome of a uh of a sale event? And it gives us great growth. And uh I I I noticed, you know, sort of in the industry press, you know, there's now, you know, talk some um aggregation groups that are looking at investing in some of the um mortgage books, which I think is a it's a really interesting aspect in terms of you know, these businesses are valuable and they are very sticky. And despite the challenges of, say, you know, like AI for low-hanging fruit, um we revel, like brokers revel in complexity. So if there's things that are difficult to, you know, solve, um, a human input into that is super valuable. And the relationships that we have with our clients are super valuable. And a sticky client uh means you know it's more valuable and all your metrics are better. And you just always to think about and how you can deliver those better outcomes for clients and you get raving fans. So it's natural growth.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

So yeah. And uh, you know, to your point, focus on the outcome, the best and right outcome for your customer. And the byproduct will usually be success of the business. Um and advocacy, you mentioned earlier on that you're dealing with the the children of your customers from years, which is um a fantastic complement for the business. Yeah. Um okay, so if we think about the the role that systems, processes, and tech plays, you mentioned earlier around your tech stack, et cetera. Um what's uh what are some of the specific processes that you've been critical in scaling Axton Finance?

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Uh so this slide that's uh probably up on the screen at the moment, um, I've trademarked this. It's the uh Axton triangle. Everyone cringes when I say it, so um, but it's basically just the infrastructure that's been built out of the Nexus platform. Um, that I came to the realization that it's so simple, but it can help you achieve so much. And if you think about like um, you know, our business model, right? Like it's just a series of tasks and statuses that you're trying to get through and you're moving it from left to right and you're trying to move it as efficiently as possible without rework and retouching, and then identifying like who does what and when. And um, after having used the Nexus platform for, you know, like we've been with you guys for 10 years, just coming out 10 years, um, that I thought we could just simplify it as a triangle. And, you know, there's a saying in our office, if it's not a Nexus, it didn't happen. So it's the source of truth and it enables us to put bits and pieces of information and build out the data on that client opportunity or that client, and then it flows through into so many other areas in terms of you know your reporting and your compliance and your marketing. And you don't have to just you know get it all accurate at the start. You can just keep adding to it. So coming back to this triangle thing, um, the status is the absolute above be all and end all in terms of like where our deals are at. And we'll look our can ban in terms of the aim of the game, if you can call it that, is getting it from left to right as quickly as possible. Yep. Um, so that it's sitting at a certain status for a minimum number of days, it's moving to the next status, um, and that it can tell a story. So, you know, if I run through with any other team or I'm looking at deals, you can see where there's bottlenecks just by the day count of how long it's sitting at the status. So anytime you're looking at the opportunity that you're dealing with, like we record every single lead that comes in the system and then track it for conversion all the way through to you know post-settlement and when it leaves our book or if we refinance it. So that status is just a critical, like it's at the top of the triangle. So um when we're inside um Nexus, I'll always say, look, if you change the status on the deal, check the tasks, check the notes. And what I mean by that is that we can all build out, as we know, our automated tasks. When you move the status, you get the choice over what it triggers out. It gives a huge amount of control in terms of the way of what you can say needs to happen next and who does it next. So you then before you leave the deal out at, you know, and go to the next thing you're gonna work in in uh in Nexus, you'd you'd look at your tasks and you look at the task and say, right, is it allocated to um the next person in the business? Has it got a due date on it? Um and is there a follow-up task with another due date on it? So we're always looking for at least two. Two in advance. Yeah, two in advance so that it doesn't fall through. So there's a few safety gaps in this methodology. That's okay. So one's the status, the number of days it's sitting there. Second is the tasks because trying to encourage the uh brokers and our LPS team, loan processing specialists.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

So that's being that's just really being um clear on who does what and by when.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

And by when. Yeah. Beautiful. And then, you know, with those tasks, you know, like you don't want the deal falling through. We want to be pushing information out to the client. We don't want the client coming back and going, where's my deal at? Spot on. What's happening? Yep. Um and then we've got the notes. So um pretty easy being able to punch out notes. Like we even now, you know, we'll dictate the notes using the dictation um that's built into any Mac or PC. Yep. Uh and we'll dictate the notes straight into Nexus, which is a fast way of being able to say what you did and what happened next, timestamp it. So if you took a phone call and you're in the deal and you type the note in, before you left, you'd then check the status and check the task. Uh, if you change the task, check the notes, check the status. So it's this triangulation in terms of like process that makes the system really efficient. You get a little bit of information, you can plug it into Nexus along the way. And it tells a really good story. But if you don't use the platform, um, and this is the same for any CRM platform, um, but if you don't use it to its um capability, there is lots of opportunity that's missed, and there's a lot of inefficiency that is then generated because you know that the term you know cottage to company, like there's a lot of broken processes that are you know still cottage, you know, type structures, right? They're reactive as opposed to being proactive. Um, and you know, it detracts away from you know that client experience, that client outcome. And um, you know, you don't have to then go and you know use another CRM platform if what you've got there is, you know, perfectly adequate. I like it's 90, 95% satisfactory for what we're trying to achieve. All right. Like there's no matter what system it is, there's always going to be grass is greener. Yeah, yeah. You can jump across and then you know end up realizing what you've got is totally adequate. So um, yeah, you get a lot of efficiency that drives a lot of better outcomes and more referrals of stickier clients and so on. So systems matter, and I'm always we're always fine-tuning it.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yep, and it sounds like the um the Axton triangle really underpinned by processes, being crystal clear what is the next step, if there's an action, what's next and who will do what and by when. So um you talk a little bit about your tech stack, or you've got it here, the bulk centered around Mercury Nexus, but you've got some other um systems here that you're using on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yeah, and I won't go through them. Uh my most most of the guys that are watching this will will have will recognize most of these uh platforms that we use. Um, but it's just how you use them and not having the temptation of what I said at the start of that uh shiny object syndrome, in terms that you then go out and you're like, okay, all right, well, I'm just gonna, you know, reinvent the wheel with what you've already got. Um and we had like a, you know, we we used a uh the tech platform before the document center came into play. And the document center has evolved and it's gotten better and better. And some enhancements I saw that came out last week. Yep. Um, and we were able to get rid of that third-party app, which vastly improved. You know, we didn't have to rename files, we didn't have to import them, we didn't have to then, you know, put them into Nexus, we didn't have to then do the TFN reduction. Um, and it just slimmed things down. Um, one thing that I would say that is, or two things I'd say that are really good, um, is learning how to use Zapier and learning what Zapier can achieve for your business uh by uh connecting it to other uh tech platforms that you've got in the business. Um so that that is really like supercharged some aspects of our um like our uh automation, like particularly at the front end for you know calendarly bookings. And we get the calendar bookings off the internet, uh, we've got a round robin system, and then we've got a lead funnel. That lead funnel then enables us to basically score and allocate it and then automatically get that lead. And the lead data is not complicated, it's a form. Name, number, email, comment, um, and then get that into Nexus and create that opportunity in Nexus immediately, rather than you know, taking the form and then keying it in and then picking which broker it goes to. And, you know, there's some structure around it, and Zapia enables us to do that in real time. The other thing, too, is um I would say is Slack. Slack is a great platform for us uh for using it for internal comms. Uh, and we use it really effectively in terms of having teams set up for, you know, there's like a um a team, Clinton Waters, a team Adam Pipe, a team Nicole Campbell, and so on, um, for each of the brokers. Um, every time a opportunity reaches a certain status in Nexus, creates a channel for that opportunity in Slack. So it keeps conversations very siloed. Um, and then we've got um other great automations built around Slack. So Slack is a fantastic platform, which is like Teams. Yep. If you're using Teams, you use it the same way for internal comms, and we use email for external comms, and it's been a great rule for us to um live and die by. But most of the other things that the guys would be pretty familiar with. It's just how you use them and how streamlined you can get them to run in your business.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Yeah, and I I imagine there may have been times over the past where it's you know trial and error. You mentioned earlier on. We've tried this, we've given it a go, we need to wind it back until you find something that fits the experience you want your customers to have through Axon Brokers.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Yeah, exactly. And and we've done that. We've we've expanded and contracted, expanded and contracted, and you know, like that it's always that that grass is greener um aspect of, you know, you might look at uh another CRM platform or another aggregators platform. Um and I've been around long enough and I've been with other um, you know, aggregation models, and you know, we've we've kept our eyes open, but not sound like a complete fanboy, but like at the end of the day, what we've got in terms of the platform and the way what we can achieve, if you look under the hood and you poke around and you you know you poke the buttons, you can really achieve uh a pretty incredible amount of efficiency out of the Nexus platform. Um and we were fortunate enough to catch up with uh the CTO at Connective uh for a roadmap discussion and just get a bit of an understanding and a bit of a two-way conversation. And the vision that Connective's got in terms of its enhancements, it's not like it's just idly sitting there and this is good enough. Um, you know, Chin and his team have got a really good vision in terms of what they want to achieve. Um, and we can see those incremental things um happening in the background. So, you know, it's exciting to see what it's going to look like.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah, and we've got um Chin speaking at every one of our professional development days, which kick off this week in Sydney. Um, so for anyone still keen to come speak to your partnership manager, and you know, ideally the roadmap for this year will be releasing enhancements that brokers see and feel. So there's some exciting things coming, which is which is great. Um, I'm sure Clint, one of the things you love doing and love doing from when you're writing loans was interaction with your customers. Uh so how do you ensure that client relationships remain really strong, even with you, you know, stepping back a bit uh and not writing loans, you know, every day?

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Um well the simple answer to that is just tell them, tell them the truth. Um and um and in your presentation, in in the reasoning why, and and you know, saying, hey, I've got another broker that's going to be looking after you within the business, is you know, you've got full confidence in that broker and saying they're as good as me, um, and I'll have oversight and we'll still, you know, I'll sit in usually the first meeting from time to time and basically help with the strategy. So it's not just a complete handball. I mean, sometimes it is just because of the, you know, I'm busy doing other things. Um, but just don't be afraid to say it. Most clients are like, cool, no problems. Um, as long as they're happy with the broker's capabilities in terms of what they're going to do, and there's not a big drama. And I can see now, you know, the um the relationships that have been passed on with the other brokers, and you know, now they're doing the second deal with that client now later on down the track, and I feel a bit left out. Yes. They didn't ring me, right? Um, so yeah, it's not a big drama. It's just like how you proposition it and and you basically just have a little boilerplate statement and how you introduce it to your clients, and yeah, it's been been not too bad.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Yep. And you're still there. It's not like you're saying I'll never see you again. You're still around. Um, from a customer perspective, it's just trust and confidence, really, uh, in that the person you're passing off. And they're they're representing the Axton brand, which means you've brought them in. There'll be an element of trust that the customer has in them already from the offset, you'd imagine.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Yeah. And I I'd say on that point, in terms of the trust and the brand, is that like the brand represents, like, we really try to build our brand reputation and they take a long time, like almost 400 Google five-star reviews. Very hard-earned, but super easy to burn. Yeah. And the relationships that you build with your clients is always about the relationship you have with that client. They wouldn't care really what we're called, right? That's just it's a value add that gives, you know, it just makes it a stronger relationship. They're like, hey, you're part of an established business, got great online reputation. I feel comfortable in dealing with you. It's just, it just removes a layer of of um of effort to engage with the client. But the relationships that we have with our clients are like are very strong. And I think that's what brokers do exceptionally well and should always look at honing to maintain because if you don't, they will walk.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Yeah, correct. Um, so you've spoken a lot about you know your your business transformation and what you've done. So what that means is what that means for you, both professionally and personally. So, so what has stepping out of um loan writing enabled you to do? And we see some fantastic photos of your beautiful family, mate, plenty of smiles there, but talk us through that.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Um Yeah, so I think this just comes back to that aspect of what I said about the why. You know, like why do we work hard? You know, why do we turn up? Why do we go to these meetings and why have we done it for such a long period? Um, and uh, you know, big fan of having that plan on a page and um the cheesy vision board. But it does work. And, you know, they're not uh necessarily about the material things. I think that broking is a fantastically rewarding industry. Um, but it what it provides you is is that it gives you a lot of choice in what you can do in do with with what you can do with your time and your resources um to achieve these things. And, you know, um you said before when we're chatting, you know, everyone's got the same size hole in the ground at the end of the day. So I you know, you don't want to have regrets in terms of what you could do with that time, you know, you know, or the opportunity of what our business um gives us. And uh I'm really big on the um work-life balance. I'm really big on the I don't really mind where you do your work. We understand what the outputs are, like they're very measurable. And um it just basically, you know, when that post-COVID period came about and I was getting pretty tired, I just knew that this was a time of like I need to take some time off. And I did, um, and uh focused on my hobbies and my family. And um, but it really enabled me to like sort of piece together again the the why I'm doing this to reinvigorate myself, to you know, build out a model and you know, take that next step in terms of growth in the business. So um, you know, pretty, pretty exciting to being able to actually have got the first steps out of the way to achieve that.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Yeah, and you, I mean, it looks like it's allowed you could be wrong, but um become a better business owner as well as being you know more present and able to create some fantastic memories with your family, right? So and for you, of course. So um, and yeah, yeah, we we were speaking earlier about the the why, why people work so hard, and and when you dig down, um, you know, it's usually not just for the money or or or not, there's other things that come into play and fine examples here that you've shared with us. So thank you so much uh for that. Um so just uh as we come into the home stretch of the uh of the webinar, and again I encourage brokers to ask questions throughout. Um nothing or most things won't be off limit, but I'm sure while we have Clint um we want to leverage his experience. So um advice for other brokers looking to scale. So people going, oh geez, I just I need to take that step. Um so brokers still deeply involved in loan writing but want to scale their business, where should they start? Uh systems. Systems? Systems and processes.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Systems and processes will make and break you. If you've got poor systems, you are gonna have inefficiencies that you are gonna spend way too much time, you're gonna be double handling, you know, rekeying data, or just outright telling someone how to do it. Um, worst possible outcome of that is is that you're probably doing it yourself. I'll just do it myself, right? Um, and that is just never going to work. So if you look at what your systems are and then benchmark it, you know, with other brokers, like brokers are really good at sharing ideas and concepts and stuff because it's one thing to share the idea, it's another thing to actually implement it. Do it, yeah. So, you know, people ask me regularly, like, okay, well, what does this system do and how do you do that and stuff? And my I can give you the long version with all the mistakes I made along the way, or I can do the shorter version and just say, oh, it's like this, and you know, you'll figure it out. Um, so systems will make or break. Um, I think your ability being able to scale out the business and um and a willingness to change them as well. Sometimes like your systems might be so ingrained that to change them is just you know, it gives you low-range anxiety to think, oh, how am I going to actually press pause on this and then just change the process? Um, and um, it's amazing on the way that necessity in your business can you know bring about ideas. Like our business is a pretty flat management structure. And you know, the guys will have ideas in our monthly meetings of like maybe we should do this, and they'll put a message on Slack, and what about if we do that or something like that? Um and they're just little tweaks, they're not really big ones. Sometimes we'll do a big, big change. Um, but the systems have really enabled us, like we've got three loan processes and bang out a pretty, you know, serious amount of lending without the wheels falling off.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Um, so I think systems are the result of that.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Yeah, great. All right. And for people, um, you know, brokers looking to future-proof their business, um, what would one um piece of information or advice be to them?

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Um I think it's have a plan. Like it's just so critical. And and having a plan uh and particularly looking at, you know, recognize what your strengths are. Um there's an aspect of all um good brokers is that there's an entrepreneurial aspect of I can do this myself. And while that is probably true, I think that we're going through a period now that um it's getting harder to do all those things yourself. It's getting more expensive to do all those things yourself. And it's downright tiring. So um, if you can look at it from a perspective of, you know, I can future proof my business uh by, you know, say partnering with a bigger business and you know, we're a business that that that can be achieved with, and there are other examples um throughout the country where that can be achieved as well. Um but also you know, it means that. I genuinely believe the value of, you know, like our partner broker books is more valuable as a part of a bigger collective than it is being, you know, a two-man band with a with a loan writer. Plus, you'll free up a ton more time in terms of what you're able to achieve. So yeah, play to your strengths, but don't, you know, get too tied up in your own ego of like, yeah, well, it's my brand and stuff. Like I said before, the brand doesn't really matter until it's a really good brand that gives you leverage. And that takes a lot of time and a lot of expense and a lot of effort. And people are buying you, right? So if the brand's there, it's delivered, and you're able to be a great broker and increase the value of your book as a byproduct of it. I think that's going to help future-proof your uh business for the long run.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Yeah, fantastic. And I like how you're saying, even if there's a process, think about what could be done to find the small tweaks. My team often hear me say, even you saying, Bolt over the years, had a coach, just trying to find that extra split second, um, the small tweaks that you know that make a brokerage even faster, um, which is great. Um, all right, so uh so we're getting to a stage now we've got a bit of QA uh coming through, which is great. So um, so the best way, so finding talented brokers or talented individuals individuals is something that comes up often. Um, how do you find good brokers or good people um to bring them into your business?

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Um I've been around for long enough to know, you know, a lot of brokers and sort of who's who and you create your own networks. So I have been quite fortunate in the team that I've got, um, are people that I've just sort of naturally known. Um and um I have had uh some good success. Our last two broker hires are actually through um a uh recruiter, and that is extremely hit and miss. I would say that I was definitely very lucky. But your um, you know, your your partnership um uh managers uh well BSMs at uh Connective are a really good place to start because you know, having open dialogue with them about, you know, like who's out there and what are they thinking, and um, I think that consolidation is going to become a bit more of a trend out to get better efficiencies. Um but yeah, it's you know, it's a little bit of luck sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Yeah, yeah. Or good fortune, right? You can create good fortune, but um and yeah, it doesn't mean we get it right all the time, but um, but it's about um trying to do your best with bringing the right people into the business. So um you mentioned earlier that uh you use an external outsourcing team. Yes. Any reason it's not in-house?

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Um so everyone thinks, oh, well, outsource because of uh cost. I mean, yes, there's an element of that. Um, but I think that's what it does enable us to do is that the out we so we use Alaya, um, who's uh owned by Otto, and um we've used it for um number of years now. And I think that particularly with loan processing, is that uh it can be like and we tried having it onshore, is that you know, loan processes then want to become brokers, and then good loan processes don't necessarily make great brokers, and then that can make it difficult, and then you have a huge amount of IP invested in that person, and then they leave, and that's uh and it's problematic. So the expense aspect aside, um, the outsourcing component is that you can get very qualified uh professionals uh that are you know trained up and experienced and Aleya operate, I think exclusively with Connective, um, so with the connective platform, and they allow us to run our systems the way that we want to run them without having to use a third-party platform. So it's all in-house, um, and we structured it so that if that LPS then does outgrow us or they seek another um promotion, they've always got other talented people that are coming in, and we basically structured our business so that you know that loan processing is siloed, so it's the same LPS from start to finish. Yep. So if one leaves, he can then basically just slot the other in, they can jump into Nexus and understand how how it works. And um, because we've got three of them, there's not a single point of failure for that happening. Um, but and the other thing too is that I find that they love their jobs, they get paid very well in comparison, you know, for working there at a layer. Um, and um they're part of the team, and it's worked very well for us. But I think the success around having the outsourcing is still a function of your systems. If you can't articulate really clearly on what you need the L you know, your outsource process person to do, it can quickly fall on its face because, you know, as nice and as uh you know proactive as they are, there is still a little bit of a, you know, oh you're you know, you're the boss and stuff. And I'm not gonna ask because you know you might get mad and you know, I don't want that, right? Like we want to basically give them a system so that they can come back with a suggestion, but they don't, they'll they'll follow a formula. So if your formulas are good, you'll get great efficiency out of them.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Yep. So follow, create the processes really crystal clear. So they follow that, give them a voice and welcome their feedback. And why wouldn't we do this? It might save us five minutes of file. Um, and lastly, and it's a big piece of advice I give to people if they're thinking about an offshore, treat them as though they're part of your team.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

You have to treat them as though they're part of your team, and then that way that we usually bring longevity of them staying with the business.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Oh, yeah, yeah. Bring them into your team meetings and stuff. And um Martin Ryan, who joined Axton and when advisor uh merged with uh with us last year, um, he had uh he has a fantastic loan processor. So we brought her as part of the business. And Martin, because he's a legend, actually brought her over from the Philippines and she came to the conference with us last year and you know, really involved her in it. Um and Anne's a superstar and you know, really valued as part of the team. Um, and you know, these are some really great experiences that you can um you know give these outsourcing uh teams. So um yeah, they are a um a great partnership in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Yep. Uh wonderful story. Shout out to Martin as well, well done. Uh no doubt a good pickup for Accident as well. Um okay, thanks so much, Clint, for your time. I just wanted to circle back to a couple of the key takeaways. So um so determine the why. So, you know, the why and your goals. So you can't hit a target you cannot see. So if it means, as I said, you take yourself out from your normal environment, think about what you would like to do. The steps to get there can be done at a later date, but where you would like to be, current situation, and just start, just start. Um test, so your systems and your processes, we've set it all through the webinar, really crystal clear. And maybe as you document or or flesh those out, ask yourself is there anything else we could be doing? For those of you with um with you know staff members within your business, ask them. They're your end user. You generally you probably find they've got some great ideas of why why don't we try this? Yeah, which is great. Experiment with change. We do that a lot here with Connective. Let's try it and we can work it out, but let's take that first step. Um, and anything is the learning that we take out of giving it a go and execute. Don't delay it, do it, give it a go. We're not gonna hurt anyone. Um, but it you never know, it could mean all the difference for getting um you know a business that scales from cottage to company, um, the ability to run your business better, and also um look after yourself better or spend more time with those that you care about uh and whatnot. So um absolutely fantastic in terms of you know some of the key takeaways and um what you share with us today, Clint. Really thank you for your time. Thanks, right? And we are extremely humbled um and appreciative of you as and Axton as a as a valued connective member.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Thanks for having us on the