Leading Broker Series – Brad Clucas in conversation with Lucy Blain and Stephanie Duncan

In this episode, Brad Clucas shares the mic with Lucy Blain, Director at Blain Financial, and Stephanie Duncan, Managing Director at Hendrick Financial to share practical insights on building referral partnerships that support long-term business growth. 

Drawing on their own experiences, Lucy and Stephanie explore the importance of trust, communication and delivering value, while sharing strategies for finding the right referral partners, nurturing lasting relationships and creating a consistent pipeline of quality leads. 

A practical conversation for brokers looking to strengthen their referral network and grow their business through authentic partnerships. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello and welcome to Connective the Talk Series. Today we're joined by Brad Klukas, Lucy Blaine, and Stephanie Duncan, as they share practical insights on building referral partnerships that support long-term business growth.

SPEAKER_05 0:21

Hello and welcome. Today we'll hear from Lucy Blaine and Stephanie Duncan, two of our very own Connective brokers. Today's topic is how to generate leads, grow and nurture referral partners. So with that, I'd like to welcome Lucy, who is the founder and principal broker at Blaine Financial and has nearly 20 years in the property industry. Ranked 61st in the 2024 MPA Top 100 brokers and recognised as a leading female broker. She has spent the past seven years building a successful business through strong client relationships and expert loan structuring. Based in Canberra, Lucy supports clients locally and interstate to secure property and long-term financial security. Next and closest to me, we have Stephanie, the founder of Hendrick Financial and one of Canberra's most successful brokers with over 20 years in the industry, also. Stephanie built her career on strong relationships with clients and partners and launched her own brokerage in 2023 to offer personalised mortgage solutions for families and mentor new brokers. Recognized among Australia's top 50 elite brokers and a finalist for all-aroker of the year, Stephanie brings deep industry knowledge and a nurturing approach to every client and broker she supports. Lucy and Stephanie bring unique strengths and perspectives to the table, and we're excited to learn from their expertise on how to generate leads, grow and nurture referral partners in today's webinar. With that out of the way, I'd like to welcome both Lucy and Stephanie. Ladies, thanks so much for being in the studio firstly.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 2:04

I really appreciate your time. Okay, so what we'll do is we'll ask a few questions. I'll probably bounce around between you both. And there might be times where you might ask each other a question as well. Feel free to do so. So again, thanks for joining us today. Lucy, I might start off with yourself first. Um, how about you share, well ask each of you to share a little bit about your journey into broking and what led you to start your own business and what do your teams look like today? So, Lucy.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

Fantastic. I um came into broking industry about nine years ago from a background in real estate, and then from real estate, I was in marketing sales of a local um website company. Um, from that, the opportunity came after some extended maternity leave to get into mortgage broking. I understood real estate, um, I understood people, and so I was like, well, this is a natural progression into the next level. Um, from that, I then had an opportunity with another brokerage in Canberra, um, which then introduced me to everything to do with mortgage broking. Um, after a couple of years, I was like, well, I'm generating the leads, I've got the contacts. Um, the next natural progression was to go out on my own. Um, and so from that I made the leap into starting Blaine Financial, um, and then it's progressed from there. There's myself in the team. Um, I work with Kim, who's another broker, and Unmole, who is a junior broker, so he's learning the ropes. And I also have support staff of three who are over in the Philippines who do a lot of our back-end work.

SPEAKER_05 3:38

Yeah, and you mentioned before it wasn't that long you actually took the team over there to spend some time with your team offshore as well.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

Yeah, so it's key to me to that we are one team. It's not a matter of us and there. It's we are one team. I try and make it over there about every six months and spend about a week because if I'm working on the ground, they're learning so much more from me being on the phones, showing the process so that it's harmonized, so that our workflow and our structure is as tight as possible so we can get the best results working as one team.

SPEAKER_05 4:09

Great. And obviously, you decided to make that move, as you said, after extended maternity leave. Just thought, you know what, we'll just change tactics. How'd you go with that?

SPEAKER_04 4:17

Uh yeah, it was good. Um, going into mortgage broking with a one and two-year-old was a good step, but it affords the flexibility for a lifestyle and a great lifestyle with a work-life balance that allows you to pick and choose how you want to direct your life, which is what I'm all about.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Um, and it's all about supporting like-minded people in what they're looking to do for everyone to then get ahead.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

Brilliant. Fantastic. Thanks for sharing. Stephanie, what about yourself? Take us back to you know when you first started and what made you get there and a bit on the journey so far.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, thank you. Um, so I started um back when I was 20. Um, I was pretty much on the path to start financial planning was kind of where I started. Um, pivoted a little bit from that based on some surrounds of influencers. Um, I had a lot of friends in real estate and uh wanted to get into the financial world, but they sort of pointed me in the direction more so towards the mortgage broking space. Um, so I kind of just went out on the hunt for a reputable mortgage broking firm and just sort of approached them and um basically just wanted to ask for a job really. Um, went into the full commission path and built up my, you know, clientele and um referral network with that business. That kind of grew and I developed into obviously a broker where we ended up expanding into um and merging with another business in the Canberra um space. I became a partner of that business. So I sort of grew from sort of a junior person, became a partner, um, and then we sort of pivoted to me kind of growing into wanting to, you know, have that next step in the industry and be able to set up my own business and have my own path to be able to, you know, expand on what my philosophy was around broking and what I wanted to offer and to be able to offer some um support to new brokers coming into industry as well.

SPEAKER_05 6:10

And and was that, I mean, because you both share a similar story and getting to a point where it was, you know, perhaps I can do this on my own. Was yeah, was that because you thought there were processes or systems or strategies that you could do better, or was a case of similar to Lucy's point, I'm doing a lot of this on my own. Perhaps now is the opportunity to make that leap of faith.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah, I think it's having the confidence to be able to do it as well. You know, I started off very much as a junior person, became a partner, went through those stages of sort of growing and becoming more involved in the business side of things. And, you know, broking is quite independent where you are having to do your own leadership lead generation and manage those clients and grow your own teams. And um yeah, you you sort of align yourself with with certain people within the broking space, and then you all grow individually. And um I got to the point where I wanted to sort of have my own little um niche in the market, and I wanted to be very focused on, you know, I looked at what my clientele was and who I like to work with, and that was very focused on families and supporting families. So that's you know, wanting to be kind of that person's financial next of kin is kind of a bit of a philosophy within Hendrick as to what we like to offer our clients and have that real kind of nurturing and um caring nature that comes with looking after that as a long-term prospect for clients. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 7:26

I like the way you put that next of like financially next of kin and someone that they can really trust and go to for that advice. So really great way. Let's um obviously off the back of this, this is a webinar based around referral partners. So if we go back to some of those, you know, that step and out on your own, and granted you had some of the relationships already, but what were some of the first steps you took to meet potential referrals and and really build trust with them when you were starting out? So, Lucy, I'll go with you first.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

Yeah, so one of the key things, I knew a number of real estate agents, but it was about building that next level where I was their trusted advisor when it came to financial questions and supporting their clients to get outcomes. Because it wasn't so much about me looking for something for myself, it was about how can I help the agent so that they can sell the house faster. And in turn, I'm part of that ecosystem. Um, with that, I spent a lot of time on Saturdays and I spent a lot of time with real estate agents, and I would just stand at open homes. Um, so people who I had a slight connection with, what could I do to offer? And it wasn't me there talking about finance, it was just another person who was helping at the open. And then if people did have questions about finance, they would come to me in the long term. And it's not a short-term win. It was the long term, okay. Well, they might come to me in two weeks, they might remember me in six months, 12 months. And then it was starting that long journey. Um, so that was probably one of the key um benefits from knowing a few real estate agents and then leveraging it to the next level, um, that I would still go and do if agents needed the help now. Yep. Because I actually quite like talking to people, which is obviously part of the job.

SPEAKER_05 9:03

Part of the job.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Um, so that was one of the key points that allowed me to then leverage. Then once I did have a client, I knew that that client, if I did a great job, they're going to at least refer another five people through. So then it's moving from a cold referral in to then keeping them as a warm referral and then nurturing them through and continuing to have them as a client, which in turn is a friend on um my books.

SPEAKER_05 9:30

And they're obviously advocating for you because it's really powerful to say, oh, my broker has done this, this, or this, or the experience was fantastic. And the other person might think, well, one, I don't have a broker, or two, well, my broker doesn't do that, so perhaps I need to speak to Lucy. The other point that I really like that you you highlighted was you were engaging with real estate agents, helping them sell the property, which is what they're trying to achieve. Yep. It wasn't necessarily I'm going to real estate agents so they can refer me business. You were helping them first. So was that a clear strategy for you? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

And it and it continues to be with all of the referral sources. It's about how does my referrer get their outcome? I'm just part of that, which I can be a very pivotal part, but it's so for an agent, they're not going to get paid until the house is exchanged. So, how do I get them to that point as fast as possible so that they can achieve their goals? In the background, I'm achieving mine, but it's a matter of putting them first. Same goes with, I do a lot of work now with um family lawyers. It's not so much about moving the house into um one person's name or selling it and then buying another. It's a matter of, okay, well, how does the divorce go through first or the financial orders? And then we sort out all the finances behind the scenes. So it's really about looking at what is the key driver for the referrer and then nurturing that because you're part of the life cycle will come behind it.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

Yeah, almost like a lead activity. Absolutely. Will get you referred business. Um, Stephanie, what about yourself? How did you go about taking those first steps to finding them and also building the relationship, build on trust?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah, um, I obviously had I started off with some relationships with real estate agents as well, was very much where I, my little pocket of referral space sort of began. Um it was very much about connecting with people that I would be comfortable referring to as well, I think was the pivotal point for me. Um, and finding people that were sort of in a similar stage of business life cycle as what I was in, um, so that you could build those relationships. You were both there to have a mutual benefit from the relationship and to be able to look after the clients and you know build on those relationships as as they sort of as you progressed in your careers, um, I think is really important and not missing an opportunity, I think is also really important. You know, you would have referrals come from friends and family, and then they would have connections with agents or financial planners or other industry people that you can then, you know, do a really good job, look after those clients, and you can then connect with those other people that you would otherwise not come in in contact with to be able to get in front of and be able to offer your services. And you know, if you do a really good job with those particular clients and um you know can leverage from those, it sort of opens you up to a broader range of um referral and network partners.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

So if you were referred or you you did a great job for a customer and then they referred you to a potential referral partner more so than a customer.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Well, also the well, both to be honest, it's never really letting an opportunity go by. So um, if you've got someone that's been referred that's a you know a close family friend or um, you know, and they're looking at buying a property, you know, they end up buying through a real estate agent and then you've never had to connect with that agent in the past, you know, you look after that client and and do a really good job, um, reach out to that agent and and sort of, you know, look to have a coffee, you know, catch up and be able to build some stronger relationships through those networks that you wouldn't otherwise be able to come in contact with.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Right. So the you know, many of those people could be referral partners potentially, because were there any that you perhaps met with, Stephanie, that you said, I'm not feeling it. Maybe there's not a future working relationship here. So talk a bit about that because I imagine that some of our brokers might come across that when you say perhaps we're not aligned and absolutely just a coffee in the end.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Well, definitely looking for those people again that you have a um a connection with and someone that you would be happy to have a coffee with or catch up with and build that relationship with, I think, is really important. Um, I know in my early stages, you know, you you try to connect with all these different people and just you know throw yourself out there. But you know, catching, you know, a 25-year-old female catching up with, you know, someone that's been in the industry for 40 years, you know, is probably not going to be the the best connect as far as um not only having a mutual um common ground to sort of get along with this person and build a strong relationship, but you know, you probably have quite different clientele as well. Um so I think it's really important to focus on A, finding people that, you know, within the industry, partners that you know work well for mortgage broking is is looking for someone that you've got some commonalities with and that you can build a relationship with because it is a long-term relationship with these people that a you want to be able to confidently refer to them and know in their ability that you know you're you think that they will service your clients well and you're confident in that referral, um, and that you can catch up with them regularly. You know, these relationships need to be nurtured and um you know they grow over time, so they need to be people that you connect well with.

SPEAKER_05 14:30

Yeah, and trust. Uh Lucy, from your end, I imagine might be similar. You you feel like you need to try and get out and to everyone as best as possible, but then eventually it narrows in terms of that referral partners, or are you still looking for new referral partners?

SPEAKER_04 14:43

I'd never say no. No, it's interesting. You should say that I was looking back at statistics from every client that comes in. I make sure in the database I know exactly where they've come from and link them with who they've come from and add them to the database if they're not already there. Yep. With that, so when I started Blaine Financial, um, it was around about 30 to 35% of my leads were coming from real estate agents. Interesting, which shocked me as well, 20% came from friends, um, which is usually quite hard to get friends to use you because it's a real trust barrier that you need to go through. Um, and then 15 or so percent were past clients or people who I kind of had followed me, um, and then referrals from that. Whereas now I'm probably under 20% from real estate leads, but 60% of my lead generation is from clients, current clients who are downsizing, upsizing, purchasing investments, refinancing, and then also client-referred. Yep. So I'd say probably 30 to 35% of my business now is coming from my current clients. And that that obviously is going to continue to change as my book gets older because I'm now starting to see the life cycle of people who are buying and then selling. Um, but in saying that, there are always new opportunities coming. Um, and I'm very much, I'm not great at going to have coffee with people to say, I want your business. I'm terrible at asking for business because it's not my style. My style is I'll do a really good job, we'll get an outcome really quickly, the client's going to be exceptionally happy. You'll be happy because you've got your outcome. And then from that, the business just snowballs and the snowball just gets bigger. Yep. Um, so I'm terrible at networking. Um, I avoid like the plague, um, going out to networking events. Um, but the proof is in the pudding in terms of I will deliver a good outcome and I'll keep everyone abreast of what's happening. And then people are so satisfied with that, then it grows from there.

SPEAKER_05 16:45

Yeah, it's it's it's just going back to a fantastic customer experience and focusing on that. Absolutely, which is what generates the referral out.

SPEAKER_04 16:52

Yeah, which is how everyone feels is the core here here. It's not a matter of the mortgage they've gone into because people forget about that. Did I pay lenders' mortgage insurance? What was my rate? Don't really know. But how did it make me feel? And how do you continue to make me feel is the outcome that people remember. And then that's why the referrals come in. So be it the real estate agent, the accountant, the client, and the referrals from past clients, it's all about how they feel and how they continue to feel, which then catapults the business forward.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

Brilliant. Fantastic. Thank you. Um, so on that, when people I know in my travels brokers will say about referral partners and agreements or arrangements or what's put in place there. But let's do do it. Um, Steph, I'll start with yourself. Do you have any formal payment structures or agreements in place with your referral partners and mindful that they might be different as well? So um, so share as much or as little as you like.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Um, to be honest, I've I've never paid for a referral um ever in my career. I've I've always had um a similar, I suppose, philosophy to Lucy, where you know you do a good job and you look after the client and they're your number one um to sort of get the outcome that you're after. I I think the proof is in that in itself, and I think it almost undervalues the service offering that you can provide um if you do a really good job by having a monetary exchange um in place. Uh it also limits, I suppose, the connections as to industries that you would, you know, connect with for, you know, if you had a relationship with someone where you were paying a monetary amount, then that, you know, that becomes almost a restricted um relationship as far as that industry is concerned. Um, that you know, there will be other businesses that, you know, therefore won't want to work with you. Um, so it's it's just uh doing a good job, you know, looking after the client, you know, you become your own advocate for for what you do by by doing that. And I think being authentic in that, in itself, is much more valuable to clients and referrals to have as an outcome, as opposed to looking at it just from a monetary amount. At the end of the day, money is the byproduct of what we do. I think at the end of the day, it's looking after the clients in their best interest and and nurturing that and looking after it. Um I think monetary is the the devalue of all of that, what we offer.

SPEAKER_05 19:19

So I really like that the value for service, but also if the re if the referrer has referred to you know either one of you in this instance, they should be thrilled when they get the call from their client, say, thank you so much for referring me to Stephanie because it was amazing. And I will be telling everyone to go and see Stephanie or Lucy. So let's stay with that for the moment with you, Stephanie. Um what happens when a referrer brings up the conversation with you? How do you tackle that when they say I'd like a to exchange exchange of monetary value? You know, what's your response there? Because I have no doubt that is applicable to it.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

It actually, for the first time, happened um not that long ago for me. My example over here we go. It was and it actually took me a little bit by surprise because I haven't heard it for a while. Um, someone kind of bringing it up. And um at you know, it was basically a conversation. I I basically said what I I've just said, you know, it's it's something that I think devalues the service for for both parties and both sides. And I think, you know, as far as I want to be very upfront with a client to let them know that it's something if they've been referred to me by a particular industry, that it is on on face value, it's you we're here to provide a service, they value our service and and what we can do to support you. Um I think as soon as you add in, you know, there's a monetary exchange for that, it I I know I wouldn't like it if it was something that was presented to me and I knew there was an exchange of funds. Um, and there's always going to be someone that will pay more for something like that. You know, it's it's the people that probably don't offer the the service and um the nurturing nature of of what we do that are after the the fees for service on that sort of stuff. And um yeah, it it was something I shut down immediately. You know, I've just sort of said, you know, I've done this, I've built myself a career around doing this as um looking after clients and and having loyal clients and followers and you know, referral networks where I haven't needed to do that in the past, and it's not something I was willing to take.

SPEAKER_05 21:20

And look, obviously, there there are no doubt there'll be some of our audience that do have uh arrangements in place that are working well for them and there's mutually beneficial outcomes, hopefully centered around what is right for their for both of their customers, which is what you want. So, you know, whilst it might be you know Stephanie's business focus to not engage with that, we have no doubt that it may work for some of you. But in saying that, it also may be to reconsider for some of our audience members, well, maybe I don't, but if I really work hard, I shouldn't have to worry about an exchange of any type of agreement. Um, Lucy, but what about with yourself? Anything same question, so any formal structures, arrangements in place for Referral partners for you?

SPEAKER_04 22:01

No, we don't have any formal um structures in place. The I guess it's been built off the snowball effect where it's um uh people have been referring. And it's never really been a question because I'm I'm playing on the I want you to be able to do your job easily so that you've got that transaction happening quickly. So, say for agents, accountants that are referring business, it's not necessarily necessarily so much about the money coming from the mortgage or me making money, it's about them achieving their outcome. I definitely see there's a place for it, um, especially when people are starting in this kind of world at the moment. Um, I guess it's no different to advertising online. It's no different to traditional print advertising because you're doing the same thing. You're just paying an advertiser to generate the lead. I would say though, don't concentrate on the money you're paying someone. It's more a matter of going, okay, well, if I can get one client from a paid referral, how many clients can I turn that referral into, which is then going to be I'm not paying anyone for? So it's really about harnessing the client that you've had to pay for to then turn them into multiple clients, which is the key difference because then you're earning 100% of the profit. Yep. So to start in the market, it's about then creating growth through a paid referral source to leverage from that. Because if you don't have a real estate connection, they're hard to make. If you don't have an accountant connection, it's hard to make. And as I said, my business is now 60% on current clients referring or doing finance themselves. So how do you get to that point? And if you've had to pay at the start, it makes common sense to then be able to leverage yourself to go forward from it.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Yeah, it feels like a shift, isn't there? Absolutely. Perhaps starting off if that makes sense. And then eventually going, well, I've got enough in the business is more mature, you know, I've got the referrals coming from existing clients or existing referral partners that just say, just look after my clients.

SPEAKER_04 24:04

Absolutely. And so it's a matter of it, it would serve its place early on to then help you move on or to accelerate growth. You might say, okay, I'm doing X million million a month at the moment. How do I go to the next level? And is it, do I need to kickstart a little bit so that I can, it's like fertilizing. You fertilize to then get the clients to then start referring again. Yep. Um, personally I haven't done it, but I can see there's a there's a place for it, which makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

We started very different times in the industry as well, to sort of what the industry.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

Yeah, and and we definitely get that, but uh, you know, no doubt that there'll be people sitting there thinking, oh, well, maybe that's an opportunity for us, or there'll be people saying, no, that's absolutely not the way we want to go, and they really like about how, you know, the the method and the decision, the strategic decision you have made for your business and the brand and what it represents.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Yeah, and I think it comes down to one of the key things as well. All of my clients have similar values to myself. Um, so I play in that market and then they refer people who are like them, and they all have similar values as well. So it's about picking the market that you can sit in. Don't get me wrong, we do different avenues and there are different people, but collectively my clients would be different to Steph's and different to the next broker. Um, so it's about harnessing that and then going from there.

SPEAKER_05 25:24

And um, so Luz, stay with you for the moment. What are some of the things that you do to ensure that referral partners keep sending clients your way? Um, and what do you believe fundamentally make those relationships continue to work every period of time?

SPEAKER_04 25:39

Yeah, so um, I guess I touched on it earlier. It's it's about creating an outcome for them. It's also about keeping everyone in the loop and contacting clients, contacting the referrers, contacting all of the other touch points before they've reached out to me. So one of my key things in email in, email out. So it's about speed of being able to do business. So if you call me, I'm calling back. I'm never looking at a phone call going, do I want to answer this? I'm answering that phone call. Um, so for the referrers, they go, okay, well, I know I'm going to get a quick turnaround and a quick response. Whereas, you know, if they go to a bank or potentially someone else, it's going to take longer, which in turn comes back to what's their outcome and can I deliver that as fast as possible. Um, a lot of the referrals now they come to me as their trusted point of finance. So it's like the RBA's meeting today, what's happening? What do you think? How much of a difference will that make? So it's about having these easy, free-flowing conversations where it's no longer, can I pick up the phone? What can I do? It's a matter of going, great, bang, what's happening? Yep. Um, and going from there. My referrer base has obviously come down to some key referrers, um, but they work. And it's not a matter of scattergun, okay, I want to be able to service this many people. It's I'm going to do an amazing job for the people who work for me. It will naturally grow and change as people move in and out of industries, um, but it's all very much what's in it for them, and I'll deliver that as fast as possible.

SPEAKER_05 27:10

Yeah, and it's it's come through in majority of what you're saying is let me help you find the best outcome for you, which is great. And do you have a regular rhythm that you have with those few select referral partners? I mean, I know you've got um referrals from your existing client base, but with those select few, are you engaging once a month, once a year?

SPEAKER_04 27:31

I'd be probably talking to most of them kind of weekly. Weekly. And it's not kind of picking up the phone and making an awkward phone call, but we'll have clients coming in and out, and it's a matter of speaking to them, joking around and being friends. Yeah. Because that is what makes them feel easy. So that you go, okay, well, this is this is an easy person to put someone in front of. I know we're going to get the outcome that needs to happen. So how can we make that happen as fast as possible? I've never been driven by the commission I'm getting off a loan, which I think also then comes true through to the referrals and also the clients. So I've never gone, okay, well, here's how much I'm going to earn and I need to earn that. I've always thought big picture, at some point the loan will drop or some version of the loan will happen and then go from there. Yep. Um, which I think is a key thing. One of my best referrals, she originally came to me and it was a $30,000 loan. And I was like, okay, yep, I went out and met the person because at that stage I was doing appointments out of the office. I would do anything and everything. Doesn't matter what time it was, I was there. Um, and that $30,000 loan, which I took the time for them to get into a property, and that's all they need is an older person, has turned into millions.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

So family was then referred, they've purchased, and it's just spread spread. So if I had gone $30,000, it's not worth it for me because that's a couple hundred dollars, I would have missed out on tens of thousands of very straightforward loans and ongoing business.

SPEAKER_05 29:00

Yeah, it's a great way to look at you know, from acorns, come oak trees. So absolutely, you know, at times that can really work fantastic. And Steph, from your end, what do you do to keep your referral partner relationship strong and what regular rhythm do you have with them as well?

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Um, it's just staying in regular contact with them. I um that most of my referral network has become friends now. So, you know, we we will chat, we'll we'll see each other on weekends, we'll see each other at different events. You know, I have got to the point now where I would organise my own um networking events um and you know, catch-ups with these people because we just enjoy each other's company, which I think is sort of where it's come, and what I was saying before is finding those people to align with and um connect with with those industries and finding people within those networks that are people you get along with and you like and you feel comfortable referring to. Um, and then that just organically grows. Um, I have recently also with starting Hendrick um set up a bit of a Empower Her social media group as well, which is basically bringing together some of those women in business to um basically share ideas and collaborate with. And we've done a bit of a social um network post on all of that to sort of bring it to the broader community within Canberra and women in business to expand those networks and sort of offer a little bit more um knowledge to you know people within the um within the space that would be of interest to that. Um so I mean, very much on the page with Lucer around, you know, you've just got to nurture those relationships, look after them and stay in regular contact, enjoy their company to be able to mutually benefit.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Makes it a lot easier. And both of you have mentioned there's like-minded people, shared values, really important, which probably makes it easy to spend time with them.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

It does, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:58

It's not necessarily to do with broking and writing loans, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:01

And it's I think a key thing as well is educating people. So it's okay, well, I know a lot about loans and I know a lot about houses, and even with the real estate agents, it's okay, well, here's how they can structure a deal, or here's how they can leverage from one property to the next, because it's amazing. I would assume agents know how to buy houses. 90% of them don't know the structure, they don't know the process. So then harnessing them with that education allows them to do their job in an easy way. So it's always conversations are meaningful, um, but don't discount how much you know as a broker that can actually help other people in their jobs. You just assume they know things. So it's that constant, I guess, learning path, um, which again is helping them, but in turn helping you faster.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

You're talking about building their awareness and capability and and educating them. How do you how do you do that in a subtle way that you you're not making them feel bad? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 32:00

Yeah, absolutely. Uh you need to know now. Um so it's just a matter of going, have you thought about this? Or here's an option, or if someone was to refinance, their repayments come down by a thousand dollars, and so then they could redeploy that income into either paying their loan off faster, or then they can get into a new apartment. So it's about you can subtly build in structure and education when people aren't even thinking about it. Um, you can say, okay, well, here are your rates you're currently on, they're great, but you could be saving money, or you could structure it and use your savings in a different way. Um, so it's about learning their key situation, and then I also use other people's circumstances as as examples all the time. Yeah. So you go, okay, well, I spoke to this person and this is an example. So going from there, which people love because people actually want to learn uh without feeling like they're they're learning. It's just that then they go and have that next conversation and they go, well, this person told me and it comes back again.

SPEAKER_05 33:03

Right. All right. Um, Steph, from your end, are there any particular industries that um you prefer, such as you, you know, accountants, real estate agents, etc., um, to uh with an aim that you know forging a relationship, creating a relationship that will send you a referred business? Or I mean I know that there will be some people thinking, well, I can start at my son's sporting club and we can give that a go, but how well is that going to go? And saying that it could work really well. But do you have a preference?

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Um, I think you need to have a broad spectrum of um referrals. I think if you focus too much on one industry, um you then become very top-heavy with one source of referral and um giving you know referrals for those clients. Not everyone needs to buy a property, so you know, some people need a financial planner, some people need an accountant, um, some want a buyer's agent. You know, there needs to be a a spread of people that you feel really um uh you can refer to and have a really strong connection with within your network space so that people will essentially, you know, being that financial next of kin that we were talking about earlier, it's it's about well, anything finance related, we'll just call Steph because she'll be able to help us, or if she doesn't, if she can't help, she'll know someone that can help or have a strong relationship with someone that can. Um, so I think that's probably the biggest part of what I would say for having those referrals is you can have them within, you know, multiple within one industry, but I would tend to try and have them specialized in certain areas, you know, someone that you know looks after this particular location or someone that is is big into you know, off-plan and um developer space, you know, same with accountants, there will be people that will be more focused on, you know, um uh business, you know, wealth and generating and investments and and the like. So I I think it's it's having a broad overview of those people so that you've always got to connect within different industries to support your clients in every way.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

And and that for you means that you can you might get the phone call, yeah, but it can actually be hey, I'm gonna refer you through to Lucy who specializes in this. You're in great hands with her. Yeah, I'll organise for her to give you a call because then you're connecting them with the right specialist. That's right. Which means everyone wins, right? Focus on the client first of all. That's right. Yeah. What about yourself, Lucy? Anything different there in terms of what you do?

SPEAKER_04 35:29

Um, I would I would say, look, new to broking, I would probably say real estate are the natural leader in. They're meeting people who need finance. They either need it now or within the next three to six months, um, which is a perfect opportunity without having um knowing or without knowing anyone in the real estate industry, I'd say just start going to open homes.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:51

Become a familiar face, not necessarily asking for business, but just being there and getting to know different agents. Um, from that, it's then again not about asking for business, it's just about knowing what's happening. So knowing broking, knowing the different rates, becoming that trusted source of knowledge about the mortgage industry and finance. Um, and then from that you can build to getting more and more leads. Um, so ironically, you talk about the sporting club, the amount of leads I actually get, which I classify as friends, um from other parents who are at Little Athletics, who are at the side of the tennis courts, who I'm just talking because I'm chatting. Um, and then naturally people love to talk about themselves, they love to talk about houses or where the markets are going. And so then once you start talking rates and you talk about different options and where banks are at, people then slowly, it's a slow burn, but they then in time come back and say, okay, well, oh, you're a mortgage broker. What are your details? Can we actually have a chat down the track? So it's first and foremost, I think it's all about that education piece, um, which is a slow burn. And but mortgage broking is a slow burn to start with. The first couple of years are hard. You are grinding, you're at the coal face, and you are just looking for business and it's and it dribbles in, but then it gets to a point where it will then accelerate because you've done the hard yards.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

Um, and then you will go from there. So real estate, I think, is key. Accountants and financial planners, they're hard. Um, they always will be hard because it's just a different market.

SPEAKER_05 37:29

What do you mean by that when they're hard? Is that is that just to create the relationship or and this is obviously in your experience as well.

SPEAKER_04 37:36

Yeah, absolutely. Look, in my experience, it's they're looking for a different piece to probably where home finance sits in. They might come in and say, okay, well, can I get a better rate? Or I do have a client who's looking to purchase, but generally you're downstream and really you want to fish upstream because you want to hit that client before they're thinking of buying, um, which flies in the face of working with real estate agents because they are down, but it naturally will shift. Um, but also usually the clients that accountants are sending through are difficult clients. Yeah. Um, they are self-employed or they are they're left of center. So as a new broker, that's going to be hard to work with. Um, hence that's why I say they're hard.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Um, because really you want to you want to aim for the low-hanging fruit to start with until you really skill up. And then it's fine, but it's a matter of how do I get to that point first and then move from there.

SPEAKER_05 38:32

Yeah, great. Um, and and and broaden your offering as well. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

As yeah, as your skill base grows, then naturally we do a lot of work with financial planners and accountants, but generally they're trusts, they're self-employed, they're complex, they're shifting money through businesses. It's not just a matter of P A Y G, public servant, standard house. Thank you. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 38:53

And you're right, because there can be complexity, different vehicles in which they're talking about their assets and whatnot, distributions. So play in the right space, especially if you're new. And obviously, you know, we we roll into now advice for new brokers and what you would do. So, Steph, if you cast your your mind back to years ago with the knowledge that you have in 2025, what would be some of the guidance you'd give to some of our um our newer brokers and trying to you know crack a couple of really great referral partners? What would you do?

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Um throwing yourself into all the networking stuff. I mean, as much as some people find that uncomfortable, I think it's also just throwing the net out to see who you kind of can build some relationships with in certain industries. Um, and there will be only you know a handful or even one or two that you know you will connect with and and probably want to meet up with again. Um so you you have to just put yourself out there, I think is the the biggest takeaway. I mean, a lot of new brokers will start with friends and family as well, which you know will go well most of the time. Not yet. It's you've got to start there, but it's not somewhere to stay for a long extended period of time, I don't think. Um, and you know, just leveraging off those relationships and opportunities as they arise, I think is really important. You know, never let an opportunity of a referral network person, you know, referring or you're dealing with someone within a certain space for a purchase, etc. You you want to reach out, you want to have that connect and do a really good job to look after that client and prove yourself as far as that transaction. Um, because you might not get the opportunity otherwise to prove yourself in front of that particular person. And um certainly reaching out to people that you, you know, I would look at an industry and look to if I was going to be selling a house, who would I want to sell through and who would be that person I think I would connect most with? And looking at sort of what can I offer them as far as um, you know, reaching out to them, having a coffee, um, just putting yourself out there. But you know, with people that you will connect well with, I think is the biggest takeaway that I can give.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

Right. And there's probably some people out there going, you know, oh, I've got to get out there and put myself out there that's not something they're like. It's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, well, it is to begin with, like it can be. Um, but you know, we're in the the business of building relationships and you know, looking after clients, and those first couple of years, it's it's a bit of a grind to get to get going. And you've just got to leverage off those relationships as best you can and continue to grow and and just do a really good job. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

And I imagine that the first time um can often be the hardest or the most daunting. And what if they say no? Which is something, you know, Lucy, I imagine you've dealt with it, you know, going out to those first interactions, be it earlier on or even now. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, how do you how do you handle those with just just get just getting the first one done?

SPEAKER_03 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:50

And then do you reflect much on those conversations and what you take into to the next ones with the referral partners?

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Yeah, um you do. It's and I've always been of a mindset you don't ask, you don't get, but I'm terrible at it. So I will never uh just say send me referrals. It's more about um, okay, well, who are you working with? And then leaving it at that, and then saying, well, I am a mortgage broker if I need to to ask for um business per se. Um but it would definitely be a matter of knowing that it's it's a slow, slow burn um to start with. And it's one of those things where it's, and I think this is probably everyone's case, you just continue to move and the snowball gets bigger. Yeah. And as the snowball grows, then the business moves forward from there. But it's those key little bits and pieces at the start. So it is if a client comes in, getting back to them straight away, going straight back to the agent. So I am on the front foot with the agent. They say my offer's accepted. I've already emailed the agent saying, Can you flip me through a marketing contract?

SPEAKER_03 42:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:55

Um, so they've got my details, any questions, or if there are any delays, shout out to me, don't go to your client because I'll be able to tell you straight away where where things are up to. So it's about creating those little bits of connection the whole way through. Same goes with a solicitor. We also make a point of everyone who goes onto the um, or sorry, we interact with, they go onto the database. So the solicitors go on, the agents go on, and then they go straight onto the marketing newsletter that then goes out. So today everyone thinks I'm amazing. I've written my RBA update. Thank you to Connective, then it comes out. But people think that's fantastic. And so they think, um, well, okay, you know, you're in front of what everyone else is doing. This is amazing. Yeah. Um, so it's those little one percenters that when you pull them all together really allow you to accelerate.

SPEAKER_05 43:42

It's another method in which you're um potentially helping them build their knowledge and educating them. Absolutely. Once they're on your database. And some people might be worried about doing that. I wouldn't. My recommendation would be put them on there. They've already started interacting with you. Well, they can always unsubscribe. They can always unsubscribe. You're more than welcome. Um More often not with I think there's benefit. Yeah. Um and it maybe this leads into the next question and and Steph, we'll start with you. But for your existing client base that refer you business, what are some of the things you do to stay top of mind with them and where you'll obviously get referred business?

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, I mean, uh obviously now with the longevity of being in the industry, majority of my business would come from existing clients. And that's, you know, looking after looking after them, staying in touch with them, um, you know, doing a really good job as far as that initial onset, you know, lending, but it's the ongoing, um, it's the ongoing support that we give them, you know, touching in post-settlement, doing regular reviews, which I expect most people in the industry uh are doing these days. Um, but it's it's actually taking the time to pick up the phone and and talk to them, you know, connecting with them on socials and just nurturing that relationship. You know, I had a client that called me the other day who just wanted some advice, just randomly, and I spent an hour on the phone with her just talking to them.

SPEAKER_05 45:01

Financial advice?

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Not not financial advice, but just advice, just life advice. And, you know, she made a comment that it was she just felt comfortable in being able to call and and just be a sounding board for her around, you know, spitballing some different things and um what that might look like. And like that, that's something that I, you know, I really enjoy with a lot of my clients. We we've built long-standing relationships with these people where they are comfortable to just pick up the phone and you get really warm um leads from these people because they do respect you and and know that you look after people and do the right thing by them. Um and you know, marketing hub obviously is something that we we use as well, and it's that that ongoing connect with them and providing that extra um knowledge base and information that's you know of interest to them. I get heaps of comments from clients around how they value that and and find it to be a really um awesome thing to pop up in their inbox and really um interesting articles, etc. So it's nurturing, um, I think is probably, you know, everything's family-based with us, it's about nurturing, it's about empathy, it's the woman fuzzies is kind of what we're trying to achieve with all our clients. So um, you know, taking the time to to talk with them and having even having staff within our office and to new brokers that we're sort of bringing in to mentor or um having them, you know, being that right character to sort of be alongside that Hendrick philosophy, I think is really important for me and what we're trying to develop with Hendrick Financial.

SPEAKER_05 46:35

Brilliant. Um, and Lucy, from your end, your existing client base, is it similar or is there anything you do differently to Steph and Hendrick?

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Um yeah, it's all it's all quite similar. Um one of the things that a lot of clients love are the birthday messages that obviously come out from the database. I personalise that and change it so it sounds like me. And people think that's fantastic. The amount of responses I get and what they've received and the like, which is fantastic. Um, I'm a big believer in every client who I meet. I'm call and text me at any stage. So be it now, be it in six months, be it in 12 months, and I'm very responsive to that. So it's about they're on a journey, but they're comfortable. Um, you know, I still go to my accountant and I kind of feel like I'm getting in trouble. Um, it's like, oh, have I bought everything? How much is this going to cost? What's happening? Whereas I want my clients to feel at any point, if they think mortgage, if they think rate repayment, they can they can text me and they do, and then we will respond, or I will find a solution for them. So it's really, I guess, putting everyone on the same level and then saying, okay, well, what benefits do we drive to them? So, and all our clients would be like that. Um, it's a matter of okay, well, hey, Lucy, what's happening? Or where's this? My my interest rate doesn't look right. Can you check it? It's not about can I make this phone call? It's about creating ease and educating them. Yep. Um, so they're probably the key.

SPEAKER_05 47:56

Yeah, great. So, you know, there's a lot around responsiveness staying front of mind. You obviously use our marketing platform, Connecticut's marketing platform, which we're really proud of. And the the amount of times I'll have brokers say, I love on a weekend when I get a text back from a client that says, Hey, thanks heaps for my birthday message that you don't know it's gone out.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

I'm not even there.

SPEAKER_05 48:15

But then they get the by the way, I'm thinking about doing that all the time. Yeah, yeah. So, which is great, right? Because you're front of mind, because if you're not talking to your clients, someone else potentially is. And for all of our listeners, if you're interested in finding out about DMH, Digital Marketing Hub, please do so. Um, we're really proud of it. But if you don't uh want that one, that's fine. But have a marketing platform. You've got to communicate to your clients.

SPEAKER_04 48:41

And one that you don't have to think about. Like I'm a mortgage broker, I understand money, I understand finance and houses, I don't understand marketing. And I'm not gonna pretend I understand marketing. So if I can focus on my core business that generates the income that we need, and I can pay someone to do that, which is helping me do what I need to do, outsource it. Yep. And I'm a big believer in work on what you are good at and what's gonna be income and dollar productive for you at any point in time, and then everything else, put at arm's length because I am no expert at any of that. Um, same goes if people say, why house over stocks? I'm I'm not a stock broker, I don't understand it, I stick in my lane.

SPEAKER_05 49:21

Yeah. Well, strategic decisions can sometimes be about where you don't play. Absolutely. And what you don't do, or leveraging the strengths of those around you, or to free up your time, as you mentioned at the start, you've got offshore people because they do something really, really well.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

And they're amazing.

SPEAKER_05 49:34

And they're amazing and they free up your time. So fantastic. Um, all right, this is going really well. Thank you so much. It's going really well because of you two necessarily. Um so how about we look at key takeaways? So, Lucy, from your end, uh well, and it'll be both of you, uh, but what are your top two takeaways for our brokers watching?

SPEAKER_04 49:52

Yeah, um, my two key takeaways. Um, well, the first would be about trust, communication, and driving value for those who you're working with. Um, that is gonna create lasting referrals and focus on partners who share the goals of your client, not of it, not of each other, but of the person you are working with. If they share those goals, then it's gonna make everyone's life easier and you're gonna come to your outcomes faster, which is one loan in, one loan out, move to the next, and then the conveyor belt continues.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

Fantastic. Thank you. And Steph.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Um, I feel like we're on repeat a little bit everyway.

SPEAKER_05 50:31

You've both got very successful businesses. So why wouldn't we?

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Um just obviously building trust, always have this the client at the center of everything that you do and doing the right thing by that client, um, and looking to, you know, leverage off opportunities as they present themselves. You know, is you're where you're at as far as being a you know new to industry broker versus 20 years in, you're looking for different opportunities and building different relationships, I think. So, you know, in those early days, I think you need to sort of spot opportunities. Well, any any stage of your career really, but very much so in the early stage is looking for opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise be able to have presented to you or connect with. So doing a really good job looking after the client and and leveraging from opportunities and connects that you wouldn't otherwise have. Um, and communicating and connecting authentically. Again, it's that we're all about the warm and fuzzies at Hendrick. So it's it's building those relationships, you know, with our clients and making them feel comfortable and nurtured and looked after. And the same kind of goes for your um referral partners. You know, you want to have those connects that you feel really comfortable in in passing through um recommendations and referrals. Um, because again, at the end of the day, the the client just has to be that central piece and the focus for that to be genuine and um authentic to you know have it all hum.

SPEAKER_05 51:54

Yeah, I love the the you know the key words there that you know authenticity, trust, value, you know, strong and proactive communication, it's timely as well. You know, a lot of these this hasn't changed, you know, a year ago to 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

You know, a lot of people it's not rocket science, you know, it's but it's consistently doing these things and nurturing those relationships and um yeah, just being authentic in in who you are and that strong character of wanting to do the best by that client.

SPEAKER_05 52:23

Lovely, fantastic. Um, all right, so a couple of questions coming through, which is great in the in the few minutes we have. Uh Lucy, I think you were talking about, you know, when you deal with agents andor solicitors and you might be communicating around progress or financial update, do you need to get any consent from clients to, or what's your process there in terms of, well, I'm gonna deal with the agent or the solicitor or whatnot to just cover any privacy privacy balls or whatnot?

SPEAKER_04 52:48

I'm never disclosing anything about the actual client or their financial position. It is always about time frames. So when are we going to get an outcome? So it's not necessarily okay, well, Lucy can spend 500,000 on purchasing that property. I'm very broad strokes with an agent about that. If they haven't put the deal together, I'm like it's in their ballpark.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:07

If they want to pay it for this property, it's it's within their means. Then once an offer's been accepted and we're moving through the process, I'm very much about, okay, well, here are the bank's SLAs currently two days, I'll get back to you in three, and I will speak to them in two days. So I will always build myself time and then come in a day or so earlier and say, here's an update. Yeah. And the easiest one is I'm not jumping on the phone to them because no one likes that style of communication anymore. It's a text or it's an email coming straight out.

SPEAKER_05 53:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:38

Um, but personalized.

SPEAKER_05 53:40

Right. And do you ask the client that in terms of their preference or communication as well, text or email, or do you just make that assumption based on how they engage with yourself?

SPEAKER_04 53:47

Um with the clients, I don't ask per se. It's usually it's just a natural flow. Some will just be on the text messages all the time, some will like a call. Yeah. The majority of people like an email. Yep. Um, and when you do call, they're like, ugh, there is there a problem. It's like it's like a show, it's like a um, I will always deliver the your formally approved via a call, then an email, and usually a text or a follow-up email. So they kind of it really hits home.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:13

Um, but the majority of it would be the style they want, which has probably started with when they first communicated with me.

SPEAKER_05 54:20

Yep, right. And you know, the um at different times where it is a call. So the approval is a fantastic call to make, the settlement is a fantastic call to make, but you know, some of the other progress could just be hey, keeping you informed so you never have to chase me.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:35

Um, and um, Steph, from your end, do you see, if you had to guess, your initial referral, potential referral conversations morphing into an ongoing, consistent referrer? Would that be a quite a frequent thing, or is it like a one in ten? Um, as in how successful are they for becoming an ongoing and multiple referrer into your business when you're from someone that's sort of fresh that you would first meet? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Um you don't like you don't connect with everyone. Like not everyone is for everyone. It's it's depends on what you're going out to actually try to achieve and at what stage of you know your career you're at as well. You know, I think going to going to a networking event is a bit of a scatter gun. You know, it's a good place to start early on in your career because you are kind of getting the feelers out to sort of be open to a whole range of different um industries and different types of people. And you know, you can meet some shoppers at some of those events. Some of them are awful. Like you walk out of there going, that was a complete waste of time. Um, and then there's others where all you need is one person to really connect with. And some of my favourite referrals and people that I still have connects with have come from some of those relationships early on. But I certainly don't, you know, I've nurtured those relationships. There have been people that I've connected with and um have built and and worked on those relationships, and they're people I like and are happy to refer to, and that's the the the minority as far as those sorts of groups are concerned. But I I think it's a great place to start and to put yourself out there. And within this sort of industry, you you do have to be a little bit outside your comfort zone, I think, with some of those things. It's if you stick to just your friends and family and your immediate network, it's very hard to broaden out from that. I think you've got to get out of your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_05 56:25

Get out of the comfort zone and first time, and we'll get it easy the next time. That's right. Stephanie Lucy, thank you so much for your time today and for sharing with our audience. Questions um are not coming through, it's more comments about thank you so much. This is so informative. So you've really made an impact on our listeners today. And thanks for coming down to what was freezing cold and all the day. Uh we really from sunny Canberra. From Sunny Canberra, wouldn't be cold there. Thanks again, and uh no doubt you'll get plenty of people probably reach out to you. Your LinkedIn's gonna go uh, I'm sure. Thanks again to both Lucy and Stephanie for all your advice to our brokers. Thanks again for those at home or in the office joining us today. Thanks for your time. We wish you every success, and we'll see you soon.