Talk Tech with Rob Scott featuring Gary Pica

“We’re entering the AI age of managed services.” – Gary Pica 

In our latest Talk Tech with Rob Scott, Gary Pica shares how MSPs can boost profitability, define value, and embrace AI without losing focus on fundamentals. 

Learn why operational maturity and legal protection are the real competitive edge.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to Top Tech with Rob Scott.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Gary Pika, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad you're here, Gary. I know you have a very busy schedule and we want to jump right into the show. For those that don't know you, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and how you got to the position you're in today?

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Yeah, so I'm an MSP at heart. So I've owned and operated two MSPs, both of which I exited. I built True Methods. We did training and peer and built MyIT Process, uh VCIO platform, and uh was acquired by Cassai about five years ago. And now uh I spend most of my time uh building community and specifically our peer groups. And so that spanned 30 years of work in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

That's amazing. And so the true methods um system that you developed uh became something that you helped others implement through the true peer peer groups, is that right?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Yeah, so we help people um you know build higher performing MSPs in a couple ways. Uh one of them is through our peer, uh, and the other one is really through our training. I recorded training um starting 10 years ago and updating, 15 years and updating it. And a lot of people that know me know me when they come up to me because they say, oh my God, I've listened to 50 hours of of the training. And it's based on the True Methods framework, which is really a way of looking at how to operate the business from service delivery to sales to packaging and pricing in a simpler view. So that the simpler things are, especially in a complex business, uh, the easier it is to find the most important things to do and to execute on those.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

And what types of MSPs, either by size or maturity level or however you would think about it, what types of uh companies benefit the most from TrueMethods and TruePer?

SPEAKER_02 2:15

So we have um we launched TruePeer Emerge, which is for you know emerging MSPs, um, tailored to them uh under five employees. And then in TruePeer, you know, we have any companies with anywhere from you know five to several hundred uh employees. Um but I sit on the board of two private equity-backed MSPs that have you know over twelve hundred employees combined. The principles of success, the challenges are different, but the principles of success are the same at every scale level.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

That's interesting. Um and I'm sure that so much of what you're doing is trying to teach those fundamentals that apply across different sizes of businesses in in all of your vast experience in working with MSPs and helping them uh mature and grow, what are the things that you would say are the most common things that MSPs are doing or aren't doing that with your coaching you can help them overcome?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Okay. Number one, they don't charge enough. Raise your prices.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yes. Raise your prices.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

And I tell them, you're not uh we don't teach you how to raise your prices, we teach you how to raise your value. They undervalue themselves. And so I would say that's number one. So it but it it starts with how they deliver services, and the key lesson at all levels of scale are you have to have people in delivery roles, and they have to be dedicated. As soon as you get to a scale level where you can dedicate it, so the person who does support shouldn't be doing other things. The person who does VCIO shouldn't be doing tickets. And when you build that kind of discipline, and even when I go into large MSPs that are, you know, are doing 50, 60, 70, 100 million, and they're struggling that their profitability is eroding, every time that's where I start. I call it finding the hole in the bucket. You put the five delivery areas down and you start putting people in buckets. And when you're done, you have buckets without people and people without buckets, and that's usually where you're leaking.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

That's very interesting. You know, I've also seen that in addition to not having the right value, as you put it, and pricing, uh I see that many MSPs also struggle with being overstaffed and it affects their profitability because they don't have adequate attention to detail around measuring gross margin and making sure that their labor costs are in line with the gross margins that they need to deliver. How does the true method or the true truth peer groups help MSPs sort of rationalize where they need to be with their uh HR spend?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Yeah, so for most people, it's because people are feeling like they're running hot. So they hire someone else. And it should not be a feeling, it should be based on facts. So two things. One, I'll go back to what I just mentioned. If people are in a delivery area, and this is peaconomics, right? Macro peconomics is for each delivery area, you can make a relationship between that role in top line revenue and that role and your unit cost, a seat. So you know mathematically for each area, but if you don't have those defined and everybody's doing everything, there's really no way to know where you're inefficient. Step two is benchmarking. So they put in about 20 numbers from sales, finance, operations. We work with them on the back end to present so they can see the business clearly. So if you run a tight ship with discipline with each delivery role and the metrics for it and are accountable for it, and you have good data, the way you look at things, those two things make it so clear when you need to hire someone or when you're inefficient and why and how to fix it.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

We um we've had a similar problem. You know, we're in a high growth B2B SaaS business. We have people in roles that if you looked at it objectively, you would say, Why is this person that's in customer support booking travel for account executives to go to events? Right. And you just evolve into that as a growth business, and we're working hard to do exactly what you're saying. Is like if you've got someone doing three things, you can't hold them accountable for any. No. And I'm sure that that's part of why what you're recommending becomes so successful because you're getting clear with people, you're you're giving them a focused direction, and you're getting people in the right seats on the bus, so to speak. You you refer to it as an empty bucket. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Yeah, and you think about it, everybody wants to do a good job. But we don't always put them in a position to do a good job. Just what you described. Like there's someone who maybe you don't think they're doing a good job in support, but they say, Yeah, but I'm booking all this travel. You know what I mean? And so I'm lucky that when I started True Methods, which as we grew, the main driver of the revenue was our SAS software. Completely different business, completely different smart numbers than MSP. But from my MSP, a business that takes so much discipline, we just had that discipline from the beginning. And as soon as we scaled, we would make roles. And we would start, you know, to see anyone who had a split role, as soon as we had the revenue, we would split it. And really built it with the same philosophy and got the same kind of results. People love doing their jobs. We knew when we had to hire someone, and we had, just like as we were with an MSP, at True Methods, we had industry best gross and net profit.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

That's awesome. That's really cool. And to your point, like business fundamentals translate from different industries, different sizes. Yeah. What do you see as some of the biggest differences between uh a SaaS type business versus managed services?

SPEAKER_02 8:20

So the biggest difference is uh look, all companies are go-to-market companies, but the metrics around go-to-market for a SaaS company uh are way bigger. Like I meet with a lot of startups. They don't know what their CAC is, you know, their client acquisition cost or their revenue acquisition cost. And sometimes I I meet them and they're just telling me how great their idea is. We were an MSP, we did this, we solved the solution, and I'm trying to say, well, you're not gonna get there at $150 a month. Like he goes, no, but we're gonna we'll have $10,000. Like, it doesn't work that way. Like there's laws in every business. And so the metrics are different, you know, because you have a business where you run it, hopefully 90, 95 plus percent gross margin. So cost of sales, right, and how fast you scale, where if you look at an MSP, whether it costs you, you know, 1X or 3X to get a new customer, they're so big and they stay for so long. It's not the determining factor for success. It's around your operational discipline because you need the gross margin uh from those services. So the the what makes the businesses different and the things you focus on are different, but the idea of discipline and the basic principles of business are the same. Having done both.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I like to say that I know a lot of MSPs that have started SaaS companies. I know a very few SaaS founders that have started MSPs. And I think part of that it goes to scalability, it goes to a number of different factors about multiples and a number of reasons why that might be the case. I just think it's interesting that for managed service providers, uh many of our clients that are also in your peer groups uh report that it's getting harder and harder to acquire those new logos and that logo acquisition cost and revenue acquisition costs are high. Um what do you attribute that to and what do you see uh as being different between the MSPs that can grow organically very well and have a good sales motion versus those that maybe are struggling to have an efficient client acquisition strategy?

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Trevor Burrus So let me first say I believe that that is what people believe and have told you, right? I will tell you that overall what I see is there's never been a better time to acquire more revenue at a higher price. And I see it in our benchmarking and the percentage of growth compared to three or four years ago. The number one thing that separates the well, I'm gonna say there's two things. One is kind of like the prerequisite. They figured out their packaging and pricing. Like their offering drives value, they can sit and uncover pain and relate it back to what they do different than someone else. So they've created a competitive advantage with their offering. If you don't do that, what I'm gonna say next doesn't matter. Okay? Once you have that, the second piece is most MSPs are sales interested, they're not sales focused. They come and they tell you that the most important thing they need to do is grow their business. But we make uh we went through a special project where we made everybody go through a time blocking exercise for two weeks of how they spent their time. I'm like, okay, so it's the most important thing, and you spend the least amount of time on it. You have the least process, the least discipline. Like, what are we talking about here? You know what I mean? And so, look, if you go back to when I had my first MSP, nobody wanted to talk to us or understood what we did. Now, customers know who we are, they know what we do, they know what they want from us. It is marketing works better, the sales process is better. But you have to be able to have like not even great process and discipline, but you have to have a playbook and accountability and execute it and put some resources to it and hold yourself. If you're a CEO, think about this for a second. If you're the CEO of a public company and that company doesn't grow, you're fired. But you're the CEO of your own MSP and you haven't grown hardly at all in the last two years, you should be fired. You should fire yourself. Like you're not doing your job, and you're not helping your customers, and you're not helping your team because they can't get opportunity if you don't grow. And anyone I'll tell you the other big difference between a SaaS company and an MSP. So much risk in a SaaS company. Like there are so many mistakes you make, that's why so few of them, and why venture firms, you know, only expect, you know, one out of ten to really do well. If you're an MSP and you know what to do and have a good plan, you're not gonna get you know that valuation that that one SaaS company got, but it's a sure thing. It's not the competition, it's not the economy, it's only you executing, and you know what the company is gonna grow and you know what it's gonna be worth. That's the part I love about the business.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

That's a good point. It's a much more steady business. It's like uh do you want to be a professional athlete with a one in 20,000 chance? Right. Do you want to, you know, go be uh uh some professional that you know your chances of making a good living are very high.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah, you can try to get on the PGA tour, or you can be a teaching professional and pretty much know what your life can, you know, cut life can look like, and it's guaranteed. Like most people can set their sights on that if they're at that level.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Aaron Ross Powell I have said, Gary, and I'd be interested in your opinion on this, but my view is that we're coming out of the what I refer to as the cybersecurity age of managed services, and we're entering into the artificial intelligence stage of managed services. Um I remember, you know, twenty years ago when MSPs were trying to uh IT providers were trying to go from breakfast to manage services and we're confronting cybersecurity and whether they're gonna do that and whether they have the resources to do that. And at the time we were saying you're gonna be in cybersecurity whether you whether you want to be or not, you might as well get ready. I think the same thing now about AI. What are your thoughts about the MSPs that today are doing the best job of differentiating themselves? You mentioned that there has to be a differentiator, you have to be good at connecting the pain to your specific unique value proposition. I ask my clients all the time, what makes you unique? Like, what is your unique value proposition? You're in against five other MSPs in your town. Like, what is it that makes you win the deal versus someone else? And and sometimes I feel like they don't always have the best answer for that. I hear, I hear we're gonna keep you safe, I hear we're gonna be responsive, I hear we're local. Those are the three biggest things that I hear. And I fear that those are not enough. And so my answer, my question to you is like if you're advising an MSP on how to find that differentiator, what's the place to start?

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Yeah, I don't think your competitors coming in and saying, hey, just so you know, we don't give great support. We'd like to say we're proactive, but frankly, we break more things. Like, do you know what I'm saying? No one's coming in and saying that. They're all saying the exact same thing. It starts with your operational maturity, that you have defined roles and process, and you could defy the pain they have back to that. Like, hey, you said you had an issue with passwords, and that's why I'm here today. Can I tell you we have a dedicated role around alignment? And we ask 11 questions every quarter, just about where you are with passwords. That's 11 of the 700 other questions. Do you understand why my customers don't have the ever have an issue like you did? Yeah. Do you think that I could say that if we didn't have this level of discipline? No. Do you understand why my customers are willing to invest a little bit more because we do these things? Yes. Do you think someone else who charged less could get you the same result? No. Done. Where do I sign up? That's it. You take them there. I call that weaponizing your competitors' low price. I love it. I've been the most in all my businesses, I've been the most expensive, you know, every time. And it is the difference between what we're asking them to invest and what another vendor is, becomes the reason they would buy from us, the most compelling reason. It's our best feature. We care too much about our customers not to charge enough.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, and I think that's important. I think too many MSPs allow their customers to push them around on price to get them to compromise the solution. And I like to explain to my clients, you know, my perspective is legal risk, right? And I look at that stack compromise as a potential legal issue. Um but I think that the ones that are the most successful are the ones that deliberately and intentionally build their stack to service what they think is the ideal customer, and then they hold stick to that. Um what do you think about um when MSPs should say no to customers who are pushing them around or trying to take them off of a standardized approach? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Listen, there's nothing, whether it's a customer or a prospect, the I love nothing better than telling them no and explaining to them respectively, respectfully, why this is the thing we know about. You can't get our results your way. And if another vendor came in here, let me tell you what they don't understand. And I have so much conviction that if you don't think this is the right way and you don't want to invest in it, just go spend less with the other vendor. Honestly. Like I have such conviction and I want to do business with you so badly, yet I'm willing to say I will not compromise your business. I will not compromise your business. And I can tell you, I've probably been on 1,500 MSP sales calls, you know, in in my career, and almost without a set without exception. We didn't sell every one of them, right? But we could figure it out right there, and we we sold enough of them. And they were happy to pay that price, and they never complained again, and they had the right expectations of what they could expect from us. Everybody has that opportunity to do it. And I look and they've piecemealed all their offering, now their margins are low. They can't help even their best customers the way they should. You're running this business at 10% after a true, you know, owner salary. Your customers are not as secure as they should be. I don't care how good your intentions are.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

I think that's a great point. You know, sometimes things are counterintuitive. The best way to protect your customers is to price enough into what you're charging them so that you could deliver a world-class experience. If you're not doing that, you're not going to have the money to deliver on what they're expecting, and everybody loses. And I think that MSPs and business owners in general think that price sensitivity, you talked about economics, right? The supply and demand curve. I think most business owners think that the elasticity of demand for their services is much different than it really is, and that raising prices is much easier than they think. Have you experienced that too?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Aaron Powell Yeah, in one sense, but I also think MSPs tend to undervalue what they do. Like they're afraid to ask for what they need. Sometimes because they haven't done their math, they don't really know their seat costs, so they don't know what to ask for. But but they're afraid. The most common thing I hear when we have new peer members, I can't charge those prices in my market. And I'm like, okay, see that guy over there and that guy over there? Yeah, they're both in your market. They're charging W. Go talk to them. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And they hold themselves, they hold themselves back, you know, with that. But the funny thing about it is, once you get there, once your culture of your whole team is, hey, this is what we deliver. We can't charge less, and we can't take anything out of it. Like, this is what makes us awesome. It's like it's no longer an objection anymore. Like it becomes who you are at every level. But when I sit down with you, before I even open my mouth, you can almost sense it. And five minutes in, you can make a decision. You see the conviction, you see the belief, you can figure out all the hard work we did in the background and how proud we are of what we built. Do you know what I mean? And then the one thing about these owners is when they have, they're all great people. When they have that conviction and when they have sincerity, they can win on this. Do you know what I mean? But until they get there, I see people struggle their whole career with it and and never really get out of their business, right? Like I I've been around for 30 years, and I know people for 30 years who now, like they're my age, and their business is basically the same as it was when I met. Most of their net worth is in the business and it's not worth much. It's getting harder for them to do the things they want to do every day. It's a tough scenario. Do you know what I mean? And if that is the owner of the company, what uh what chance does his team have? Do you know what I mean? I always tell people if you don't achieve financial independence as a business leader, you can't help your team do the same. Like I can't give somebody something that I don't have. Like it's like almost like a responsibility, I think, as as entrepreneurs that we have, and that's how the way we should look at it as an obligation we have to our team.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

That's really interesting. You know, you've come to a point, and I've similar in my career, where you get to a point where financially you're comfortable, you know, you got all your box boxes checked with your legacy plan, um, and you wake up in the morning not to get a paycheck or because you're chasing a commission, but um to make an impact. And I know that you personally have gone through some transitions with you know selling to you know a big platform and you know involved the PE owned, you know, large platform. What has that transition been like for you personally and professionally from you know 30 years of kind of doing your own thing to now being part of a huge operation with global reach?

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah, so I I'll say selling your business, one of the things is it's uh like a kind of a rude awakening. When I sold my first business to MindShift, it was not the easiest transition for me. You know, I was young and you know, uh a hard charger and taking direction from others, but over time I learned from that experience. I was at a different point in my life in terms of my maturity, um, my financial situation when I sold uh to Caseya, and you know, really none of the other entrepreneurs that got acquired are are here. It's hard to stay. And they're buying your software, like we had we had our software. But for me, I got a chance to build this peer group, and now the way things have evolved at Caseya, I look at it and I see Kaseya for me, like I love this industry and I want to do everything I can like to help the business leaders and their teams. Now I we have this reach that I have access to, like the most amazing tool in different ways, including putting input in on 365, right, and those kind of things, spending time on the peer groups, being a voice inside of Caseya at a C level, you know, in terms of what really needs to happen and what they need, you know, from us as a company. I I I don't know. I feel it would be disrespectful of me to be handed like these kind of resources for this industry that I love, and then move on to the next thing. Like I can't do it forever. Do you do you know what I mean? And I have other things in my life and personally and professionally, but right now I feel like the industry, as you said, going from cybersecurity, although half the people haven't gotten there, right? And so they're behind and moving on to this next chapter that's going to be dominated by AI, which will change things more. I I want to do I want to see it happen, you know, this next chapter, and try to use all the resources that I have, including my role at Caseya, um, as best I can, and as long as they keep letting me.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

That's awesome, that's exciting. Um, you mentioned AI. Um we hired Gartner six years ago to tell us what do you think the computer law practice area of the future will be?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

And they told us AI. So we started working on AI legal topics and concepts long before large language models came out. And so it's been just a crazy explosion, just in terms of the legal issues around AI and the challenges around using AI for legal and other functions. And there's a lot of theories about exactly how AI is going to impact the industry, uh, specifically how managed services providers are going to be impacted as these technologies proliferate. And I just want to ask you, you know, as you know, use all of your vast experience and knowledge in the industry and get your crystal ball out, what do you see happening with AI in the next year, in the next three years that will impact managed services? And how can an MSP that's a uh an owner of a business today put themselves in the best position to capitalize on those trends?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Okay. So number one prerequisite, get your house in order. Every one of these changes, the people who get there first are the ones that win on transition. The ones that get there first are the ones that are operating a profitable, operationally mature business. We saw it happen with break and fix, we saw it happen with security, even more so in this next transition. So get your house in order now. Okay. What I think will happen is kind of what I alluded to in my keynote today, this industry's changed a lot, but I get to see everybody's numbers every quarter. A lot of people are working on support tickets. Like the the very, you know, the center of our Tootsie Pop is still support. AI is going directly after that soft, chewy center. So what happens when this pillar, the one thing that we've, you know, have built our our value, our uh some of our margin that's built into that because we're reselling it, what happens when that starts to erode? And to me, A, getting there first is important. So that means you have to be tracking your efficiency. How many seats per tech are we managing and tracking it over time and using everything, including AI, right, in order to get there. Then the next piece is how do we replace that value gap? And I think that, you know, AI and automation are one of them. We've seen the enterprise, these big consulting companies have come in to the to the big companies to help them with their strategies on AI and automation. They can't afford to come to the SMB. And we're the ones that have the relationship already. Anybody else will have a cost of sales. We just can't we have to do something with it. And so that means if we first are automating every aspect, not just support, every aspect of our business. We're using AI. It becomes part of our culture. Then we get to know our customers' businesses, we can start to get some pattern recognition about what are the common things we can help them with. And we can build, you know, AI and automation as a service. We can help them with BI more than we do today. Like some they're gonna they have to get there. They can't survive strategically in their business. Is somebody else gonna come in and who has a high cost of sales to try to get them, or will the people that already own the strategic relationship, us, will we be able to do it?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I think the answer is the latter. The MSPs are gonna be the ones that deploy AI solutions to the SMB space. Um of the things that I'm interested in getting your opinion on as it relates to AI is we're starting to see a lot of these agencai voice solutions come up. We're representing many of them, writing their customer contracts, but you know, I go from the airport in San Francisco and I see your new BDR, your new SDR, and their avatars for AI voice solutions. Um and I made the provocative statement recently: if I was gonna get into managed services today, I may put voice in my name, because I know that voice in a lot of ways has become disfavored. A lot of the original legacy telecom companies are trying to get into IT managed services. I think that there's a resurgence in voice with AI, and it's gonna be significant and a significant opportunity for MSPs. Um, in terms of categories of uh low fruit, you know, co-pilot certainly one with Microsoft, with MDF money and a playbook that they can give MSPs, but from your perspective, where is the low fruit for MSPs? I talk to a lot of my clients, I say, are you doing anything with AI? And they say, we're we're thinking about it. We're we're testing the waters, we haven't figured it out yet. We think it's too soon, we don't think it's ready for prime time. If McDonald's can't make it work at their drive-thru, I certainly can't make it work. So what are your thoughts about an MSP finding some early wins with AI?

SPEAKER_02 31:17

So you mentioned Agentec AI. Um, we know that's what's coming for us and SMBs because we're seeing it in other verticals. I have a nephew who works in the pharma space. Every startup is is there, right? These large sales forces you mentioned, like there's it's so much, and we watch what comes down, right? It starts with Fortune 500, it goes to the mid-market, uh, and then uh it comes down, you know, to us. We're slower to change. So to me, what I would start with is just like we started with with security, start with your own business, right? Before you can productize something and take it to a customer, you know, you can't make a customer secure if you're not secure. You can't go and help other customers on their journey along AI if you if you aren't thinking about it in that way yourself. And I think the reality is for a the average MSP, and we see people that are already doing that, they already have automation and AI as a service to their customers. I can most of them are a little bit larger, MSPs who have the resources. So it's already happening in our, you know, in our marketplace. But um the bottom probably part, you know, other parts of the market who aren't there, that's where Kaseya has a role. Like the platform, we're three, four years ahead in our platform of anyone else. And most people in most verticals, not just ours, they're gonna get a lot of that efficiency delivered to them. They're not gonna figure it all out on themselves. But there are pieces that we can start to figure out today. And it should be your culture the same way security was. You should have your resources trained, and you should look through that lens the same way we look through a security lens today. You should look through it through an AI and an automation lens.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

That's an excellent point. You know, I have people who work for me that every problem is solved with a spreadsheet. And my mindset is every problem can be solved first with AI. And it's like a mindset. It's like a different mindset.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Like how often do you open up Google on your phone now compared to chat?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Less frequently than before. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Like it's it's my go-to for most things now. Yeah. And it does just in my personal life, it just does so many things. Like, you know, I have a lot of, I've recorded a lot of stuff and I've written a lot of stuff. And, you know, it can almost if I tell it to write me a 500-page blog on packaging and pricing written from the perspective of Gary Pika, it's kind of better than what I would do because it spells better.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah, what I have to tell it is don't use words that are common to AI. Write it in my voice, and don't use words that AI detection tools are likely to pick up. Because when I'm writing, it's frequently similar to you. I'm sure the the PR team is asked, or someone's asked you to write something, and they run it through these tools, right? And so I wind up having to do a lot of extra work if my AI doesn't do the drafting in a way that those tools won't detect. It's like I'm training my AI to have someone else's AI not detect it. I used AI to write it. I think all that's going to go away soon, right? But right now there's some of that. Um what else would you like to share with the audience about what's going on at Caseya or Troopier? I know you'd had a big audience today at your keynote. Uh what was the one or two things that you wanted to get across in that keynote so that our audience can get the benefit of that?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Yeah, I want to try to strike up, strike a balance today, to tell people that we are going this change is going to be much more fundamental that's coming. Like I also am going to say in the next five years. It will not take as long as other changes. Um but not in a way to scare people, in a way to let them know there's going to be the best opportunities to unlock. And but we need to do it together, right? As first as a community, and then uh Caseya as the leader in the industry, you know, has an obligation to really help people, you know, uh get there. And so I I want to close by saying I know some people get tired, our business does like the the rate of change just keeps increasing. But get engaged in it, you know, enjoy it. Be part of the community. Make sure you're not gonna figure that right now, you are not gonna figure out what comes next sitting in your office inside of a service ticket. So take advantage of this opportunity. I think we're gonna see the most amazing things happen and the most wealth creation for this industry is ahead of us. It is not behind us. And that's not stuff for business owners, that's for team members and everybody involved.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Well, there you have it, guys. Gary Pika, thank you so much. Appreciate you coming on to the show. Thank you for having me. Awesome. You did great.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

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