Bend Into Balance: Steven Dobson, founder of Dobson Strength Rehab & Performance

In this episode of Bend Into Balance, Adriana Marino sits down with Steven Dobson, founder of Dobson Strength Rehab & Performance, to explore a smarter, more holistic approach to movement, recovery, and resilience. A doctor of physical therapy and strength coach based in Bend, Steven shares how his own injury journey led him to rethink traditional rehab—and ultimately build a practice centered on keeping people active, capable, and confident doing what they love.

Together, they discuss the connection between pain, stress, and lifestyle, why strength training is essential for longevity, and how Bend’s “weekend warrior” culture can both inspire and challenge the body. Steven breaks down practical ways to build strength at any level, explains the role of consistency and gradual progress in injury prevention, and emphasizes a powerful message: your body is far more adaptable and capable than you think.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hello, my name is Adriana Marino, and I am host and producer of Bend into Balance. Today I am accompanied by Stephen Dobson, a physical therapist as well as a strength coach. Steven, thank you for being here. Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us how you began this path into physical therapy, wellness, fitness?

unknown 0:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Well, thanks for having me, Audrey. I appreciate it. Yeah, like you said, my name is Stephen Dobson. I'm a doctor of physical therapy, as well as a strength coach here in Bend, Oregon. Been here for about three years now. Love Bend, obviously. Yeah, and I guess how I got into physical therapy, it's kind of an interesting story. I started out really actually when I was an undergrad. I actually started out in a different major entirely, thought science was done for me. I'm never going back.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

And then I got really into lifting weights. So essentially going to the gym five, six days a week, just fell in love with the human body and how much it was capable of. I just, I just really loved it. And then what happened was I ended up getting hurt. Oh. So classically, uh-huh. I came in too hot. I went, I did too much too soon. Yes. And I remember very vividly, I was getting in my dorm room one night, trying to get up to my bunk bed. Of course, I'm on the second story, second bunk. Yeah. And I was like reaching up with my left arm, grabbing to get up, and I was like, ooh, that's the pain. Shoulder was just really uncomfortable. And I'd I felt it building for a while, right? I was just kind of ignoring it. I didn't know much about pain and injury at the time. I was just a kid trying to lift weights, having fun. Yeah, you're in your 20s, right? Exactly. I was like, I'm invincible. Right. And then, of course, couldn't sleep on my left side. I was having a lot of pain doing like day-to-day things for a while. It's like, oh, I really wonder how I could avoid this happening in the future. I like loved lifting weights so much. I didn't want to derail my goals. I didn't want to derail that. I just fallen in love with that sport itself. And I ended up going down the path of trying to learn how to optimize my own lifting, my own basically technique to avoid injury, my own programming, et cetera. And that really led me, long story short, down to physical therapy eventually. Uh-huh. Cycled through some other things first, but found that, wow, okay, I figured out how I can do things a little more intelligently. Yeah. Why can't I try to bring this to other people and just show everyone how important being strong is and how just being smart and nuanced about your training can do for not just being in the gym, but all the things you do outside the gym. Like we do in Ben, like we mountain bike, hike, trail run, whatever it is, play pickleball, whatever sport you want to play, you can probably play it around here. So yeah. I just loved how that could transition and help everyone be stronger, more resilient to to just play what they want to play.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah. So it was that own pain of yours that moved you into like, I want to investigate more about the human body and see how I can not only heal myself but heal others.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Exactly. I just became obsessed with how cool the human body was after taking anatomy. And it was funny because I dropped anatomy in high school. I was like, I don't want to do this. This is too intense, too hard. Yeah. And then I got into it in undergrad and I just fell in love with it. And it really transitioned my entire career path, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

What is it that, you know, makes you so passionate about the body and just wanting to learn more about it and how it works?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

I think it's just being so impressed with how adaptable and crazily like how capable our bodies are, honestly, just amazes me all the time. And I think what always frustrated me was when someone would have a limitation put on them, or someone will be afraid to do something hard, or just have pain and then be fearful of something for a long time. And then I just get really it just kind of pains me to see people go through that process because I just I know how capable they are. It's just a matter of doing the right things or having the right mindset or going through a process to actually do those things. And like that part is what I'm really passionate about is just keeping people doing what they love to do and just showing them how capable they are.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Sure. How do you do this?

SPEAKER_00 4:21

How how does your work fold, unfold? Yeah. Well, basically, the way my system operates is a little different than a normal physical therapy operation might be you're always going to be one-on-one with me, but it's also gonna include a lot of the accountability and digital side of things. So coming into using an app and having access to me all the time and accountability, because let's be honest, when you're in your one to two hours of physical therapy a week, that's only a percent, maybe two percent of your entire week. And of course you're sleeping, but otherwise, it's the stuff that happens outside of that physical therapy session that I think is where the real magic happens. So my goal with my practice is just to expand out into that time and help keep you on track. Because we've all probably been to physical therapy or been to some sort of rehab scenario, or your doctor told you to do this one thing, and you're like, Oh, that sounds awesome. I'm gonna do that. And then before you know it, you're like, what was that again? Right, you forget it. Or like you get busy, right? And you just end up falling off the map on that, and then the goal you had becomes kind of in the shadow again.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah. So how does the coaching that you do outside that, you know, one or two hours that you're seeing your clients each week, how does that show up for them through the app, through the coaching that you're mentioning?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah, exactly. So what they're gonna do is they're gonna have a program built out for them specifically, probably from us meeting in person and kind of figuring out what current problem they're dealing with and building a specific plan out there, and the app's gonna have their exercises, kind of like you might expect. Yeah. Something specific to their rehab. But then it might also be like, actually, I want you to work on getting enough water in today, or I want you to work on getting enough protein for your recovery, whatever sort of other habit that's important to their goals. Sure. And then on top of that, the way it might differ more so is that my main goal with any client that comes in to see me is how can I keep them as active and capable as possible while they deal with their injury with whatever pain point they have. So that might mean they're used to going to the gym or used to trail running X amount. How can I find a level of that that they can do at the same time? Sure. They're not missing that thing that they really want to do because the rehab's not that exciting, right? It's right. It's a little less funeral stuff. Yeah. So it's more of building up sometimes an entire program for their exercise routine on top of their rehab modifying their current routine so they can stay as active as possible and keep making progress despite pain.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Um, instead of kind of focusing on the rehab and letting everything else go for a while.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

And then kind of going backwards almost.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Oh, that's great. So th there's a chance for them to not only see you in person, but also maintain their normal, almost normal physical routine outside of those sessions, just not to feel that they're missing out on what they're used to doing. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

And that might mean I'm collaborating with their coach or their trainer or uh whoever else they work with. Sure. You know, even yogis or other people who just need to be active. And yeah, like, can you just talk to your to your instructor and say, hey, this is the things that I really can't do right now? What else can I do? And they're they're smart, they can modify and help you out. Sure. Might already be doing that, to be honest. It's just adding another layer to it, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Got it. And taking a step back, can you tell us a little more? Like, what is physical therapy? Why people tend to see you, what are typical, you know, pains people are going through. Do I necessarily have to feel pain to see a physical therapist?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Um, yeah, that's a very good question. Um, I was thinking about that earlier, actually. And I think physical therapy to me essentially means really helping someone overcome a pain point, overcome a fear of movement, or overcoming a limitation they've been that's been put on them by somebody else or maybe the internet for all we know. And then helping them just overcome that and do what whatever they want to do. That's really what physical therapy means to me. And it doesn't mean you have to be in pain to do that.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

It could be something you've been afraid to do, or an old injury that you're like, I don't hurt anymore, but I don't really know if I'm ready for that. Got it. Or, you know, it could be like, I don't want to squat anymore with this much weight because I'm afraid it might hurt me again, or go for a run farther than three miles because last time I did my ankle really got angry at me, or something like that. So I think fear of movement or fear of being able to do the things you want to do is also a big part of that. And we could consider things like mobility or just getting more flexible or being able to just do the other things you want to do. That's I think that's more of what physical therapy means to me is is coming back to those main points of just how can we keep the person in front of us doing what they really want to do and love to do and brings them joy through whatever they're dealing with right now.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

And obviously that's that's my bubble of physical therapy. We're outpatient world where I'm not in the hospital in a traumatic scenario, right? Right. Um, but there's so many different types of physical therapy out there. So I'm not speaking to those necessarily. Those people are doing amazing work in their own ways. Um, in the outpatient world, like I am in, it's just uh that's kind of boring, but I'm after.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah. So what kind of people will come to you? What what kind of issues do they have?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah, a lot of, I mean, kind of spanning the musculoskeletal system, you could say a lot of a lot of low back pain, shoulder pain, knee pain, probably the big, big three. Uh it might be oftentimes people though that have been dealing with it for some time, or you know, they've had back pain. They heard it like eight years ago, but it flares up all the like every every few months something comes up, or shoulder pain that they just can't, you know, play their sport anymore. Usually not as many traumatic injuries in my my space. Okay. A lot of long-standing pain that's just holding someone back.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Um, and then yeah, we're pretty much taking them and figuring out how we can do all those things we've talked about already, sort of building out a really solid routine to get them doing what they love to do.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah. How do you distinguish, Stephen, pain, like physical pain from stress-related pain? Because, you know, it's said that the body keeps the score. And oftentimes when we get tense, you know, we tighten certain muscle groups, whether that's our neck, back, I mean, typically the places that you're mentioning that you see a lot of clients with. So how do you distinguish what's really going on?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think this is where I love to see when as a physical therapist or other physical therapists start thinking about the whole person in front of them and thinking about the holistic nature of pain. Yeah. Because it is very different. It's difficult to decide is this pain right now because I have a work deadline and I have two kids at home, keep me up all night. And I have all these stressors in my life. Um, so yeah, and sometimes we can't necessarily say with 100% confidence that it's a hundred percent this, a hundred percent that, right? We're mostly a blend of, oh, this is this old injury that I've had that is some why is it popping up now? I don't know. And then you start to take a little inventory of what's happening in your life, and you're like, well, I have I'm trading for a hard event. I'm doing something hard, but I'm also sleeping less because of a certain thing. I'm more stressed, I'm not handling that super duper well, maybe. Or, you know, even a relationship, stress could be happening in your life.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

You're not doing other things you enjoy as much. Poor sleep. Exactly. Yeah. Nutrition kind of went out the the window. Yeah. Yeah. So all those things matter. And I like to think of it, and I didn't coin this description, but basically like an overflowing cup, you might say, like physical stuff goes in that cup, like uh all your, you know, previous injuries, all of the different things that can go along with the physical self, but also your stress, your nutrition, your sleep, your social connections, these things all go in the cup. And when that cup f overflows, pain, you experience pain. And it might not be always it might not be physical, might not be the main thing, but it's still part of the bucket. And sure. What we try to do is figure out which one of those levers can be pulled to bring it back under a normal level so you don't have as much pain and you can continue doing what you want to do. And sometimes it's not purely physical. I mean, I actually have clients that are purely virtual who we never put my hands on them ever. And really, they make perfect progress with just great communication and the right steps to getting better. And it might be, oh, actually, we're gonna work on your stress management first, because I could give you five exercises, but you're already doing so much, you don't need more. You should need less. Less is more in this case. So it's an interesting, it's a very interesting question, and this is kind of why I love the nuance of pain. Yeah. Um, which makes it complicated and confusing and frustrating to someone experiencing it. Sure. But it's fun from a detective side of what can we do to actually make you feel better? And it's not always what you expect.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Sure. So when you do kind of put that detective hat on, you really trying to get to know the story of your patient, what kind of questions are you asking them to under understand like what they're really going through?

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Yeah, I mean, if it's something that they've had a flare-up or something is coming up more extreme for them lately, I might ask questions like, what's been going on in your life? Like I want to know how you are as a human, like what's happening in your day-to-day? Are you how well how high is your stress level, zero to five? Like, are you at a five right now? And and you kept kicked your training up at the same time and it just overflowed? Or how are you sleeping? How much sleep are you getting per night? Um, what does your sleep hygiene look like? Are you doom scrolling till 11 p.m. every night and struggling to fall asleep and wondering what's happening? Um, totally fair, by the way. Yeah, of course, not judging you for that. But those types of questions are how focused are you on your nutrition? How high are you rate that? Like just kind of going through an inventory to some extent. And if you just asks a couple smart questions and let someone talk, they usually give you hints toward what's going on in their life.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah. This is interesting because these are this a lot of the same questions I ask, you know, as a health and wellness coach, but I wasn't expecting the physical therapist to ask the same questions.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, yeah. I love that part of it. I think it's underrated entirely. Um, I think a lot of people are thinking about it. They just don't have time to implement it. Yeah. Or they don't have time to have those conversations, which is part of what I'm trying to accomplish with doing things differently. Yeah. I'm having those harder conversations. And I want to really know who I'm working with and develop a good relationship. And that that's also really fun to me. I love that part about uh being a physical therapist is you get to know your people usually.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Like you know them more than just mini hertz. To know who they are and who their shits are, yeah. How their relationships are and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Has this holistic view that or I should say approach that you have, has this always been part of your practice, or is this something you've grown into or leaned into as it's evolved?

SPEAKER_00 15:18

I think it's definitely something I've grown into more and more. And when I first came out of school and started my job, I was all gun-ho, and I want to fix all the biomechanical issues and feel like I'm really important and special. And my hands are so powerful. Uh-huh. And I think that's there's still some power there. It's still helpful. Human touch is still effective. Yeah. But I realize that, you know, you can make a lot of impact thinking about the person in front of you and just who they are as a human and the soft skills of communication that are almost more important than the manual stuff. But it's fun to learn. I did a bunch of manual therapy certifications. I've done all that stuff and had fun doing it. Uh-huh. And then slowly realized that that wasn't necessarily the impact I wanted to make. It was different. It was just I wanted to do more of the whole holistic approach. Not you can't have the manual. You can that can be included, but it's just a bigger picture.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Uh-huh. And do most of your clients know when they come to see you that you do take this holistic approach to healing?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

I think or are they surprised? I try to put out that sort of uh image of myself like this. So when I'm posting on social media or having nuanced conversations on social media, I try to make that come through. I think people are sometimes surprised, yeah. Especially if they don't know who I am, that why are you asking me about my nutrition and my sleep and my stress?

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Why can't you just think about my knee? And I'm like, we're gonna think about your knee, don't worry. Like, that's fine. We're gonna diagnose that and look at the ankle and the hip and the back and make sure what we got going on there is under control. But if we don't think about the other things, I think we're just missing the long-term progress we could make.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

We're missing the full like behavior change, lifestyle change that helps keep you healthy for the long term. Yes. It puts tools in your toolbox that you can use forever. Yeah. Versus here's these three best exercises for your need. Got it.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

For a city like Bend, that we've got so many people out there, you know, doing all types of active sports. What are your recommendations for those who tend to only get out on the weekends? Because obviously, you know, work keeps us busy Monday to Friday, but we have what we call these weekend warriors who get out at, you know, on the trails, biking, skiing, snowboarding, swimming, you know, what are your recommendations before getting out there?

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. And that's totally something. I mean, I ski on the weekends too, right? Come out there on the weekday usually. So I think the main thing is having some sort of structured routine you're following, even if it's just brief and short, like 30 minutes a couple times a week during your week.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Or some other form of structured activity during your week that actually fits in your life that helps prepare you for those things. I think that's the big thing. Um, and then when a new season comes around, yeah, don't expect to start at the highest level immediately. Right. That's like programming you might find in a sports team where you're going from season to season and they're usually ramping up before they're like full bore. And you could use track as an example because they start and they as their last they're kind of peak by the end of the season, right? Yeah. So they have their best performances.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Think about it more like that. I still want you to have fun with it, but I want you just to be prepared so you're not coming to see me because you flared up your knee pain the second weekend of the of the year, sorry. It's okay. And um you end up missing out on some of that fun because you just angered something from the past or got hurt doing something that your body wasn't capable of. And what I really mean by doing something structured during the week is some sort of strength training most often. Aerobic is very important too, obviously, from a health perspective. But as long as you're getting some stimulus of strength training during your week, you're gonna be better prepared for whatever you're trying to throw at your body on the weekend.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Going to this idea of strength coaching that that you're part of that's part of your work, can you tell us like what's what does strength coaching look like for you? How do you Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

A lot of the same principles we've talked about from the overhaul holistic approach are also going to apply here as well. But it's usually more about figuring out what specific qualities do you need to do whatever you need to do?

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

You know, whether that's a certain sport, whether that's just I want to be healthy and have great bone health for the long term because I realize how important strength training is for me, but I don't know where to go with it because I have had pain in the past and I'm a little worried about it, or I've never done it before in my life. Like, what do I do now?

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Um, so it's kind of trying to figure out goal-wise first from the person what's most important to them and what they're comfortable with. I'm not going to make someone that doesn't want to do a certain movement do it, at least not at first. I might try to coax them into it. Yeah. Like squatting or even deadlifting, like hinging, just working, working all the muscle groups essentially in a way that's appropriate for the person at that given moment, and then building them up over time. And it doesn't mean, oh, I need to bodybuild and go to the gym five days a week to to strength train. It means, can I do two days a week, 30 to 45 minutes, and get the main things in and then go home and continue my life? But that stacks up over time. Sure. I can keep you in the gym consistently, or even at home working out or wherever it is for you know three months in a row, the even twice a week, like you're gonna notice the change and you're gonna just feel better. Day-to-day tasks become easier. It's just it all stacks on itself. And I can imagine if everything feels easier, your body's just under less stress every time you do it. Yeah, that makes sense. And then it just allows you to be more resilient. That kind of got long-winded, but I hope that answers the question.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Good answer. Strength training has definitely, you know, become more of a thing of as of late, especially for women too, in menopause and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Why is strength training so important?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Yeah, I think there's so many benefits to it. And it's it's also fairly accessible with some basic knowledge is helpful. Um, but basically from a bone health standpoint and from we have a big problem as we age of losing muscle mass and losing bone density as we get older. And and that's just becomes a problem when we as we get older and older, because if we fall and we break a hip, our it just it changes our entire lives, right? But the stronger we are and the more muscle we build in our earlier years, our twenties, our thirties, our forties, you can still gain muscle later in life. It's not it's totally possible. You can be 60 for the 70 for the first time lifting weights and a hundred percent benefit. But the earlier you start, the more muscle you accumulate, the more you stave off those negative changes of not doing that thing. The less likely you are to run into trouble from frailty or feeling weak and just basically feeling less capable as you get older.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Uh-huh. You've mentioned strength. You've mentioned cardio. You've mentioned balance. We haven't talked about flexibility. Are all of these just as important? Would you prioritize one over the other? Like what function do each of them play? Cardio, balance, strength, and bal um flexibility.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah. And they're all important for sure, Rena. There's no denying that. I think flexibility is one of those things that we need to have a good amount of it to do our day-to-day things. And if we don't have it, it's it needs to be more of a focus than if we have a decent amount. Um, I think good strength training and a good routine can actually improve your flexibility by itself. But if you really aren't flexible at all and you're like, I can't touch my toes or I can't squat down and into a position that's comfortable for at all, maybe. I think it's important to start working on those things. It might be part of a program, a warm-up, a cool down, or just ideally implemented into your strength training. Um, but yeah, all those different physical qualities are certainly important. And I think strength, the reason I biased towards strength is just because I think it's something most people aren't doing. Uh-huh. Um because it's hard and it's different and maybe a little scary. But it's just so critical from a life longevity perspective.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah. Speaking of longevity, I've recently read that they say that muscle is like the organ that's one of the organs most important for longevity.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Absolutely. I think I can think it's easy to tell if you're stronger or life is easier, just announced peace physically. Yeah. Um, maybe for your confidence too. But I think when you have that muscle, you do have a little bit, you do burn a little more calories at rest. You do just have more ability to tackle what life throws at you. Even if you get sick and you have to be in the hospital and your body's gonna burn through your muscle. And if it doesn't have the muscle to burn through, it has nothing to go through. So just it just is a life-saving thing to have.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

It's just hard to deny. I think that's the main thing about muscle that is so critical. And as we past 30 year muscle declines by a certain percentage every year, and if we don't do anything about it, it just keeps going down. So we just have to do it.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah. What is an easy way to do strength training at home? Maybe for those people who are kind of like, eh, I don't want to go to a gym. I feel a little self-conscious, you know, lifting weights. You know, what are easy, like weight-bearing exercises that one can do to keep that muscle intact and growing? Yeah, good. Or with a small, you know, hand weight.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

So you have hand weights and you have maybe some bands you can pick up for like 20 bucks or something like that. And this is an interesting interesting thing that COVID did to us was make us creative at home. Yes. Because we didn't have the access to the gyms we used to have. And I think that in a weird way helped the creativity of homework.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Um, outside buying a whole home gym setup.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

But yeah, I think you can accomplish a lot. And I have a client now that I'm like, I don't really feel comfortable going to the gym, but I really know I need to do this. What do I do? And I'm still building out full-body workout programs for them at home a few days a week because you have wall sits, you have uh you have something in your house that weighs some weight, probably. Sure. Sit down and up from a chair, you can do sit-to-stands, you can do uh leg extensions with the bands, you can do so many exercises with the bands that it's kind of surprising. Of course, there's a cap on how hard you can try, but uh in the beginning it's so easy to do, you know, from upper body workouts with dumbbells even five to ten pounds or less, depending on your current status. Uh-huh. Um, but if you have just a, you know, a set of light dumbbells, a set of bands, loop bands, and bands you can attach over your door, maybe to pull down and do different things. Like you can really make a well-structured routine with very minimal equipment and make progress for probably months before you run out of before you're so strong that the bands kind of run out of steam and you're like, maybe I need to go to the gym. Yeah. Uh-huh. Or maybe not. Maybe you're fine with that requisite level of strength and you're like, for now this is okay for me, and I'm just not quite ready for the gym yet.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

I'm just glad you're doing something. Yeah. I'm happy that you're making progress at it.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

And when you recommend, you know, when you would design a strength training workout for someone, do you focus more on the reps or on the weights that they're lifting? Like what's more important?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah, I think if you're using lighter weights, you're usually going to end up with a little higher reps just because the weight can't get hard fast enough to do like a set of five. I think lower rep sets are really great for building strength. In the beginning, though, when you're just getting started, you're probably not going to do that because your injury risk is just a little higher than it needs to be. And when you figure out your technique and figure out how to lift more um efficiently and safely, then you can build up a little heavier. Yeah. I don't think that's always true, but usually it's going to be, you know, two or three sets of eight to twelve reps, maybe even like eight to twenty reps. Uh-huh. And pushing it to a level that's, you know, an eight out of ten or a six to eight out of ten intensity, meaning a ten meaning, oh, I couldn't do possibly do another rep. Like, this is so hard. Like I sat down and I can't get up. That's a that's like a 10. Muscle failure, you might say. Yeah. And I think a six to eight is like, oh, I could do two to four more repetitions without completely losing my technique or not being able to get up again. And you can honestly make a ton of progress at a relatively moderate to low intensity for quite a long time before you have to do something harder. Um, and I I always tell people that start with the minimum viable program, I would say, which just means do the least you need to do to make progress right now, so you have somewhere to go when it gets harder. Okay. If you start at the max amount, that makes sense. Where do you go now? Sure. You're like, oh well, I could do 10 sets. Or like, I don't have all day. Yeah, I do that. So start with the least you need to do to make progress right now, and then build your way up from there. And from an injury resilience, injury protection standpoint, that's gonna also cover the base there, typically speaking.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Sure. That makes sense. Why did you just say until you have to go up? Like, why is it necessarily why couldn't one stay stable at a Yeah, I guess it depends on how strong you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Okay. Or how much you want to get stronger. I think if you're fine maintaining at a certain level of strength, great. And if you've met the level of strength you need for your day-to-day life, cool. I think most people might want to just keep going a little bit. Uh get a little stronger. Progressive over is a common principle you might have heard of before. Just have to do something a little harder to keep getting better at it. Sure. Like if you run two miles forever, you're like your body adapts at two miles. And you're just not burning as many calories at two miles anymore because your body is so used to it. You just have to do a little more to get the benefit you're after.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Doesn't mean it's not great that you run two miles. It just means do you want to go further? Do you want to push yourself to be stronger, have better aerobic fitness, whatever that might be. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yes, it does. Yeah. I guess it really depends on the individual, you know, like how strong the food. Oh, they are. But I mean, yeah. You're making me think that I have to now swim more. Because I usually I I always go for like a minimal of what I want to do. And depending on the time I have, like, okay, I'll swim a little more. But one thing is true. I sometimes I try to do like the the pools much faster, like the laps, you know what I'm saying? Like just to see how I can up my my performance. I mean, on an individual basis, I'm not even competing, but just to see, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Right, right. And if it depends or it depends if you're like, this is just I'm covering my base of being aerobically fit and I enjoy it. Yeah. Then great. You know, if you're like, how do I become a faster swimmer or more optimal swimmer or swim longer or whatever it is? Right. Then you start playing with the other principles. Yeah. You start being like, okay, I'm gonna do intense intervals or something, like I'm gonna do a different style of cardio. Yeah. You know, intervals obviously are gonna burn you out faster, but that means your workouts may be more efficient because you're done in 20 minutes because you can't go any longer. Yeah. Versus that's swimming for an hour or something. Sure. Different types of cardio as well. Sure. Love this to the aerobic fitness.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

So what's your practice look like as a physical therapist, as a strength coach? Like what do you what's your minimal each day, each week? What what are you looking for to stay fit, healthy?

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah. You mean from like what I personally do?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah, you can share with us.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah, personally, I mean, I love lifting weights. It's always been my passion, like from my origin of getting into physical therapy, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

It's not six days a week anymore. Uh-huh. Uh, it's three to four.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Um, and those sessions are now more focused toward being a little more athletic than they used to be. I athletic, you said? Yes. I did a lot of bodybuilding and powerlifting for a long time, which just means I'm lifting heavy weights, you know, four to five days a week and not really thinking about cutting and moving fast and jumping and being explosive, more powerful. Um, despite the name powerlifting, it's not really power. So I want to just be more well-rounded and enjoy the other things Bend has to offer than just being in the gym. I get it. So, you know, three to four days a week where I'm including some sort of power training, which we don't haven't talked about at all yet, which I think is also underrated. And then more strength-focused stuff still, and then a little bit of hypertrophy work, which just means building muscle, just focused around just stuff I enjoy too, there. Uh-and getting out, going to the track, running, running some sprints, running some intervals, doing some jumping, playing pickleball, going mountain biking, just mixing those sort of fun activities to get more activity in, just because it's good for you. But also, why not have fun while you do your cardio? When you live in a place like Bend, it's hard. For sure. You might as well. Yeah. Like you don't need to, if you love the treadmill in the gym, awesome. But to me, I'd rather be out there on the trail with all trail parts we have, yeah. Mountain biking and just enjoying Bend and and getting healthier. Like that's the beauty of Ben. That's why we love it so much.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, for sure. So, what were you just mentioning that we haven't got into the Oh training?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Like just like more explosive and dynamic type. What is that? And so like jumping and basically jumping, sprinting, those types of things. If we're kind of keep it simple, that's probably the easiest way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Is this what's related to VO2 Max that everyone's talking about?

SPEAKER_00 32:40

That's that's actually more just aerobic fitness in general. And obviously, still an important variable. And that's that's more of like your longer-term cardio. Not not entirely, but yeah. Um, there's a lot of nuance in VO2 Max. But I think generally power is more of the explosive dynamic things. Like pickleball is not that explosive, but you still have to move quickly laterally or forward and decelerate. Yeah. Do all these things that people don't normally do, actually. That's why pickleball is the number one sport for orthopedic injuries in the world, probably right. Is it really? Because everyone's just getting hurt because they're not used to doing any of that. Uh-huh. And then they play for four hours and they're like, why does money hurt? Um, not blaming you by the way. Just an observation.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Um, so preparing yourself for those things by actually training to do them.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Doing some jumping. It power kind of implies some intent to move fast.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Or explosively. Yeah. So it might just be spotting faster with a lighter weight.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Or doing kettlebell swings or doing something that's a little more intentionally powerful.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Why is that important?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

I think we lose our power as we get older. It's kind of like muscle.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I think you'll lose if you don't use it. You know, if you don't use it, you'll lose it. Like the classic saying, right? Sure. Um, and that is really true with power in something most people never do past a certain age, because don't think about it. It's not part of your day-to-day. It's like it's like when you jump to get up and oh, your kid's running into the street and you're like, oh, I gotta jump and you hurt your hamstring because you've been ran in the last 20 years. Uh-huh. Um, that's going to be a classic example if someone could relate to.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

But if you're doing some of those things, even minimally on a weekly basis, just exposing your body to them a little bit. So it's not like, what do you just do to me after this long layoff of never sprinting once in your in your life for the last 20 years? Um, so just having that in the program, or like I'll use it as an example at home, is someone just squats faster up from the chair. They like they intentionally try to go faster. Yes. It's can be that simple. Um, or just even like hopping in place or thinking of burpees. A burpee's not a bad example. You know, it's it's definitely more explosive, right? Having to change bad. Yeah. Um, so anything like that, I think if we just included a little bit of that, even in our cooldown or warm up of our gucina, I try to implement that with my clients, like in their warm-up, even if they're 70, 80. I'm like, yeah, hey, when's the last time you jumped?

SPEAKER_03 35:00

And they're like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Good question. I don't know. And I'm like, no problem.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Are you okay with trying something? And it might be just bouncing on their feet fast. It might be just stepping up faster. It might be doing something just a little quicker. It's not, let's try this 20-inch box jump on the first tail. It's not gonna work, right? So it's finding the level someone can handle, but also just making sure that if they do stumble on the trail, they're not gonna face plant every time. They're gonna be able to stop quickly because they have the ability to do it. Yeah. I think training that ability just helps your confidence too, and just feels good to be capable.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

No, for sure. It brings a lot of confidence. And you what you when I'm thinking about this power moving, like you're talking about, it reminds me of kids at play. I was just thinking of my kids and raising my kids, you know, on a farm. You know, we had a lot of land. And there's just so much movement per se, you know, like you don't even have to force it or think about it, you know. It's just like chasing a dog or, you know, going after this or that. And just how we we move, we lose that spontaneo spontaneity as we grow older.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Um I love that what you just said there about play. I think that is something I really want more adults and older adults to just play, have fun with your training, have fun with exercising. It doesn't have to be this terribly boring, monotonous three sets of eight squats at the gym all the time. It can be more fun. Yeah. Or at least I think that squat strength's important, but why can't we also play a little bit? Sure. Um, I remember a guy programmed, he was having just doing martial arts a little bit or playing with his kids, and he's like, whenever I have to like step back in this weird way, it starts to hurt. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna set a timer for 30 seconds. You're just gonna hop around in different ways. Like you're just gonna jump from that way, that way. I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Just whatever comes to you, just jump in this way. Like, I don't care. And and that was entertaining and also silly and kind of fun. And you're like, I haven't done that in a while. Yeah. And doesn't mean you have to do silly things like that, but just playing more and trying to find ways to make the strength training that sounds more boring, more interesting, or even just applying it to what it's gonna do to you outside the gym that is fun, it's just a way I try to bring that in. And yeah, I think we're missing out on playing anymore. Um, I'm I've been a victim of that myself too, and I just like to think of it as if you don't enjoy it, you're probably not gonna keep doing it for a long time. Yeah. So how can we help you enjoy it so you actually don't dread going to the gym? You're like, I get to go to the gym today, and I know I'm doing it because of this reason, and I'm also gonna have a little fun.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yeah. I guess that's one of the virtues of sports like pickleball or soccer or things that are kind of in communion with others where you can kind of just enjoy that.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah, I think Ben's there's so many recreational leagues and adult leagues happening around here, which is awesome. Yeah. I just wish those people would strength train more so they got hurt less.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

So is that do you see that? You see a direct connection? You think the lack of strength training is causing a lot of the Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I think I guess I should probably say strength conditioning. Okay. Which just means like doing the dynamic things and the strength training. Uh-huh. If you're just purely strong, like I was powerlifting and bodybuilding, like stronger than most people, maybe, yeah. But not physically capable of playing a sport, like someone that plays their sport, right? Yeah. So I think they have to still do those dynamic power type things and do some of the things they're gonna do in their sport in the gym occasionally.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

So just keep their body ready for that, especially in the off season when they, you know, don't play for six months and then they go hard again.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

If they're just exposing them their bodies to that a little bit. Yeah. And that sound doesn't mean like every day or something. Sure. Once or twice once or twice a week is fine.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

But yeah, I think if you prepare your body for the things you're throwing at it, you'll just have a lot less chance of injury. We can never perfectly prevent everything. It's just not the way humans are.

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

And we're gonna try hard things and we should. But yeah, stuff happens. I guess that's you know, this is a slightly different topic, but just reframing pain is not something to be afraid of or constantly fear it necessarily, but it's pain is really just a signal that our body is trying to tell us, hey, listen here, your your knee is kind of achy right now. Maybe you're doing a little more than your body's currently prepared for, yeah. Or things like that. And it doesn't mean you've damaged your meniscus, or like now your knee is doomed and you can never do that again. It just means here's the signal. Let's listen to what it has to say. And sometimes we need to modify more than others. Just depends on the level of pain you're experiencing and what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

That's another whole topic of reframing pain, but uh an interesting one.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

And in terms of reframing, which I love, I mean, how has your experience working with so many different clients? I imagine, both young and old, professional, not so professional, I mean, in terms of athl athletes and whatnot, what have been your biggest takeaways as a as a professional, as a physical therapist?

SPEAKER_00 40:18

I mean, just in terms of working with these people.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

How has it made you reflect on your own health and wellness?

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Yeah, I think I think it shows how many options there are. Uh-huh. And that's what I really think about. I I love that people can do so many different things and be healthy. Like you don't have to do one thing. And from the really high-level athletes to the person who just is first starting to do anything. Yeah. Um, there are a lot of the similarities between them. Like they still need to do the basics really well. They still need to sleep and eat well and take care of their stress and these things. Like, in a lot of ways, they're similar. Um, of course, there's different demands they're trying to put on their body, which requires different things, maybe, but it really comes down to the same thing we kind of just talked about. How are they enjoying it? Yeah. How are they able to do what they love to do? And how can I educate them to feel confident and not sort of catastrophize every pain experience and uh just be more mentally and physically resilient, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

For me, I mean, since I've I've dealt with my own fair share of pain and injuries and um seen so many people go through so many different pains and injuries that I'm just I get annoyed at first too when I get hurt, of course, like everyone else. Yeah. Like, God, I gotta think about this a little harder now, right? Yeah. But I'm like, okay, I've done this many, many times, and I'm not gonna worry too hard about it. Barring something traumatic, obviously. You get in a car accident, it's a different experience. Yeah. But playing a sport and some pain pops up that's just annoying, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

You can be annoyed and be frustrated, but then it's more of like, okay, what do I do to help make this feel better? How do I not have that stress response of being totally fearful and worried about it and start working on some things that I can do? And you know, like right now, I'm dealing with some bouts of back pain and some knee discomfort. And it doesn't bother me anymore mentally because I'm like, okay, I've come through that before and I've hit personal bests that I never would have thought were possible. Even when someone may have told me that I shouldn't be able to do that again, you know. So and that proves to yourself how capable you are, I think, as well. Yes. When you overcome something, you're like less you're more capable the next time around, right? For sure. It's the best way. It's yeah, it's like learning by trial of the experience of the uncomfortable part of it, which unfortunately you're probably all gonna deal with orake it, avoid it, or gonna get hurt at some point. But coming out the other side and feeling more confident and capable and realizing it wasn't as bad as you thought, uh-huh. And someone being on the other side of that telling you it's gonna be okay. I can that can honestly be enough sometimes. Um it's just nice to have that, and then you just feel better going forward.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah. I hear the theme of resilience coming through your words.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Yeah. I I think you know, resilience, durability, these different types of terms, just kind of meaning how much can you handle, what's your current capacity, like how much can you do and not feel pain or injury or or not get overwhelmed from a mental standpoint by I think it's both mental and mental and physical, but yeah, yeah, I think it's it's just it is kind of a buzzword right now. Uh-huh. Um but it's such an important thing. It's important for sure. It's like some things like buzzwords are I wouldn't call it fad by any means, but uh some of those things we do love because they are impactful, not just because they're fun for marketing purposes.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah. How how do you work with a client who's lacking that resilience, but that really needs needs it in order to move through the pain or the discomfort that they're going through and thus, you know, is seeing you. And when when that mental piece is kind of missing, that, you know, that grid, that desire to get better, you know, how do you work with a client in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Yeah. So I guess I can kind of walk you through a little bit of a process. If someone comes to me and they're dealing with pain first off. Yeah. The first step of the process is going to be how can we get this pain under control to to build some resilience down the road or or build resilience in areas they're not currently hurting while they're in pain. But then it's going to be the second step is always going to be how can we build your capacity and get you doing some harder things and then building resilience at the end and their ability if you will. And that building resilience really comes down to building their ability to handle more work. Yeah. And that might mean exposing them to hard work so they can handle stuff they're doing out on the trails or or on the court or whatever it is. So it might mean just adding more volume to their program in terms of doing those dynamic things, preparing their body for the things that they're going to experience in their sport so it's not the first time they felt it in six months or a couple months. So it's more about just exposing them to the hard things they're going to do. Uh-huh. But then also when they're trying to get back to that sport progressively doing so if you were you were say running 10 miles and then you had a flare up of some sort of pain ankle, knee, hip, whatever. And so you had you know two months off where you couldn't hit that mileage without because the pain was so significant. If you try to go back to 10 miles immediately it's probably going to hurt again. Yeah. And so it's more of a progressive process of okay let's start with are we do we need to run walk first? We have to find a balance maybe let's hit a little less uphill this time or let's go on a trail so your shins don't get beat up as much or run on the grass or maybe you need a new pair of shoes. Uh-huh what are these details we can do to help just start you small and build you back up to where you were before obviously is quickly as reasonable so you can get back to doing everything you want to do. But that's also a patient process. Yeah and that's why you don't really build resilience in weeks and days you build resilience in months and years. And that's why strength training and consistency over time is just it's actually the most important variable to this process than some get a strong in six weeks program or you know change your life in six weeks.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Unfortunately your body's just not going to adapt that fast. It's going to feel better maybe but you're not going to be at the requisite level of ability in that short of time frame to do everything. Sure. And that's just why I promote how can you enjoy it sustainably and just keep going forever ideally at least stick to it for majority of weeks every year to really make lasting change and feel just more resilient. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 47:11

It does it does yeah no I'm just curious how how you work that piece because you know it's such an important mental factor that has to be kind of plugged into the equation to to get better.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Yes it is a little great at exposure meaning exposing you to the thing that was painful in doses that is reasonable and helps build your confidence that you can do it. Yeah. It might be taking something like a box jump or a certain amount of running or whatever it is and starting with a small dose and building your confidence in yourself mentally that you can do it. Because if you're expecting pain you're probably more likely to feel it unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

So if we can build your confidence and have you you know run in a certain way or jump a certain height first and then be like okay I did 12 inches and next week I may do 16. Yeah. Or like just if we start building your confidence in that way or like an example of a client who you know hurt their back deadlifting and it's not like they're going to go back to that PR the first week they're out of pain.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

What's PR? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Personal records okay got it uh-huh so if they're used to deadlifting 350 pounds they're not going to go back the day after their pain feels okay and do it again. Right. It's a common thing people might do and ends up back in pain again. But it might be okay do we start with a kettlebell? Do we start with obviously a lighter load do we lift you off the floor a little bit so you're not going quite as far. Like how are these what are these ways we can get you back to doing it and building your confidence mentally as much as physically so you're not, you know, avoiding it for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

That could apply to any activity.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

No nobody wants to live in live in fear.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

No and yeah I I hate when people live in fear or live in their sort of limitations they put on themselves or other people have put on them it that's not necessary. That's actually one of my biggest things I'm passionate about that really bothers me is when I hear someone in in the gym or someone out on the trail or doing something and they're like I just don't do that anymore because it hurt. Yeah. Or I don't do that anymore because my doctor told me or someone told me or Reddit told me that I should probably never do that again.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

And it's like well why?

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Have you tried? Have you done the work to maybe do it again? And that's where we kind of start and I don't want you to put limits on yourself.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

No. I don't want you to be so there's self-limiting beliefs.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

100% I want you to feel so capable and so inspired and strong and hopeful that you can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yeah. With Enrique during my first fall of autumn here in Bend um I was up on Morazvik Trail. I don't know if I pronounced it correctly. Morazvik yeah yeah thank you off of Chevlin and it was a dusty part it was flat and I fell and I didn't think anything of it. You know I just got back on my bike you know I kind of slipped in the sand and whatnot. And then a couple weeks like maybe 10 days later I just kept on feeling a pain and I'm like this is weird. You know I'm not having a hard time sleeping. And I asked my cousin who's a a doctor and he's like well maybe get it you know next right and I broke ribs. You know I had three broken ribs like you know oh my gosh. My colleague said welcome to Ben. You're an official Bundine you've got broken ribs biking. And so it took a while I took some painkillers and I know you know I learned that with ribs you can't do anything. It's hard they heal by themselves. I'm like how are they feeling by themselves? And I was more mindful of my movement you know since I found out I had broken ribs. But you know Steven, the first thing I did as soon as I felt well again I went on my bike and I went biking yeah because I knew that if I stalled it any longer I would get that fear I'm going to, you know, and I knew I had to just overcome that initial fear and resistance to think oh my gosh I could do that again, you know I was awful you know the pain going to sleep was really bad. That sounds tough. Yeah because it was on the side. Anyways um long story short I, you know, this idea of just like you know not giving in to that fear, I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yeah it's just so important and kudos to you for having the courage to be out there and get back on the bike immediately and prove to yourself that hey I can do this. This is fine because I'm sure you love biking and you wouldn't want to I am wary going downhill though.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

I will be very you know that's still a human thing to be it's not necessary I like rather endurance and go for longer bike rides.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

I am wary downhill but um yeah yeah I mean I'm I'm wary of super intense downhill mountain biking too I'm out there to get my cardio in an Shoei and have fun and not get hurt. Yeah. My wife would be pretty annoyed if I got hurt probably but yeah no it's yeah that's great though I love that story.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Thank you. Well um where can people here of in Ben find you Steven? Where you were you working? Can you tell us a little bit the name of your business and good point.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah. Yeah my business is called Dobson Strength Rehab and Performance. You can find me my office is in Ben and it's just a little bit up from the hockey pavilion and connected to a gym there. Uh-huh you can find me easily at social media typically that's where a lot of my content goes out. Basically Steve dot DobsonStrength um my website's just DobsonStrength dot com. It's where you find a bunch more information about me and kind of the different things that I offer and a little bit more about what I'm passionate about.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

Yeah. Great. And last question um what do you think is the most un underrated activity that we can do just to keep ourselves active and not necessarily needing to see you.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Yeah. Well I do think any level of strength training is great. Like I don't care if it's at home I don't care where it is even a couple times a week. Yeah. Other than that I do think walking and just getting your step count in on a daily basis is underrated for health long term. And just get your seven to eight thousand steps for your longevity and you're gonna be at least starting yourself off on the right foot.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Sounds good. Thank you so much for being here Steven of course thanks much Audrey bye