Bend Into Balance: Laura Evenglow, Trauma Therapist, Educator, and Creator of the Unconscious Mind Technique

Laura Evenglow, LCSW, is a trauma therapist, educator, and creator of the Unconscious Mind Technique. Her work is built on a simple belief: our symptoms are not random. They are messages pointing toward something unresolved.

After years of working with trauma survivors, Laura developed the Unconscious Mind Technique to help people move beyond coping strategies and access the unconscious patterns that quietly shape emotions, relationships, and behavior. By helping people identify and resolve the experiences beneath their symptoms, her approach creates change from the inside out.

Laura now teaches this approach to both clients and therapists, with the goal of helping more people understand that the answers they are searching for are often already within them. They simply need a way to access them.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Hello, my name is Adriana Marino, and I'm host and producer of Ben Into Balance, Powered by the Source. Today I am with Laura Evanglow, therapist originally from Georgia, and who has been living and working in Ben since May of 2024, so just a little over two years ago. Laura, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

No, um tell me about yourself. How did you get into, you know, you're a c licensed clinical social worker, you work as a therapist. How did you choose this field for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Well, that's uh this field chose me, to be honest. Um, you know, I always say that if you want to know what you're supposed to do in life, look at your own healing journey. And so when I was uh 11 to 19, I was on drugs and alcohol. And then at 19, I wound up in two years of substance abuse treatment. And after I got out of substance abuse treatment, I was going to go nowhere near working with anybody who had addiction or anything like that. I was on a different path, taking business classes, and uh was working at uh a retail store and a lady would come in there and we would talk and I would interact with her daughter. And one day she asked, like, how did you get to this town? Because I was in Statesboro, Georgia at that time, at that time. And when I told her my story, she was like, Oh, I want to hire you. And I'm like, Well, what do you do? And she actually ran the local community mental health. And so I was like, Okay, well, that's salary and benefits, I'll take it. And I started working in uh treatment, helping people who were addicts, and I loved it, just absolutely loved it, you know, connecting with the ladies at the time, hearing their stories, seeing their triumphs, being with them in their tragedies, and uh it really was like a part of me came alive that just knew this is what I'm supposed to do as much as I tried to fight it. And so I started my uh career working in substance abuse treatment. I actually worked in substance abuse treatment for gosh, 15, 17 years. Um, and have slowly progressed over the years into other parts of the mental health world. But that's kind of how I got into the field. It was basically piggybacking off of my own experience as a person in recovery who swore they wouldn't do that and then wound up right in it because I feel like our path is our path and it we're gonna wind up where we're supposed to be anyway. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I can't help asking, Laura, why were you resistant in wanting to do this work initially with Well, you know, I had lived with people who had addiction problems for two years, 24-7, and also having gone through treatment for two years, uh it was kind of like I was just kind of over it. Yeah. I was kind of like, I'm over, I'm over this.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I'm over this part of my life, I'm I'm moving on, I don't want to do that. And uh I guess nor did you want to be reminded of Yeah, or you know, have to be reminded of it. But it's it's it and it was just it's different working in it versus living in a treatment center. I was tired of treatment centers after two years of being in treatment. So uh it's but it is different working in it versus living in it, you know. And what I found was because I had l actually lived that life, I was able to connect with the clients better and able to understand where they're coming from more than you know, people who had never struggled with addiction who are looking at them like, well, why are you doing what you're doing? And I'm like, hey, I totally get why you're doing what you're doing. And yeah, that made me less judgmental and more accepting and more able to have a relationship with them. So yeah, it was just part of being burned out on treatment, you know, and like I don't want to go back there, I don't want to do that. But uh, like I said, working in it is different than living in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

You already answered my second my following question was actually, you know, how your experience helped you become a better therapist. So now I'd like to understand how did healing others help understand what you had gone through?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Um, well, I always say, like, you know, we're always when you're helping, when you're like working with another person, it's always a parallel process. So what that means is like whatever I'm stuck with with a person, I'm actually stuck with in myself, you know? And so I can't tell you how many times like helping another person on their journey has actually paralleled something that I needed to face inside of me. So anytime anytime I'm stuck with somebody, I always ask myself, like, what is it in me that needs to change in order for this dynamic to change? You know, and so over the years, as I've worked with people, not just in, I started out in addiction, then I got into trauma. And, you know, as I got into trauma, I started working with people who had a lot of like childhood wounds and things that happened to them in their past that sometimes I didn't even remember. I realized that was part of my story too. Um, so it's this, this process of of like we're all here, I believe, just trying to walk the road of life together, healing and changing alongside each other. You know, it's a it's it's it's humbling sometimes to realize that I'm here helping another person, but in the same way, I need the same help and I have the same wounds and I'm carrying the same pain that anybody that sits across from me that I guide on a process is actually carrying too. So I think that um, you know, I could go on and on about this because it's it's really changed me fundamentally as a person, helping other people walk into their their despair and their darkness and uh has has helped me grow not just as an individual but on a like a spiritual level too.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

I can't believe that. Yeah. Now are you focused on a specific type of healing from addiction to trauma? Do you see a lot of different type of uh clients in your practice, Laura?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I kind of work with all types because at the end of the day, what I've come to find out, I've been doing this uh golly, I keep can't keep track sometimes because time goes by so fast, but it took me two years, 23 years. So, anyways, over the 23-year process, what I've come to realize is that what people often come in saying is the problem is not really the problem. It's just the way that they're trying to manage the actual problem. So, whatever it is, whether it be addiction or whether it be anxiety or whether it be depression or whether it be some of the symptoms of trauma, like you know, hypervigilance, negative self-talk, um, all of that is shame. All of that are at the at the core, there's something underneath it that is the deeper issue. You kind of have to help guide them to understand. And once you work on that deeper issue, then the thing, the the symptom that they are saying is the problem will shift. So I don't really put myself in a category of working with any type of problem. Understood. Because I see problems not as the thing that needs to actually be worked on. I'm like, okay, could we release just the tip of the iceberg? Yes, the tip of the iceberg. It's like this is the thing that reached your level of awareness for you to actually say, Hey, I need help.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

But there's actually something underneath that much deeper, much deeper, that has been there a lot longer than this problem's been there, that we need to find and we need to uncover and we need to figure out about in order for this to release in your life. And so I've quit saying, Oh, I'm this kind of therapist or I work with this or I work with that. Um, and I'm more like, hey, if you're open, ready, and willing to like go into the thing that's the real problem, that's who I help.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

You know, if you kind of look at my website and stuff, my specialties are, of course, trauma in a very sub-specialty of trauma called dissociation, um, which is like people who've been through quite a lot of uh wounding experiences in their life and don't remember a lot of it and kind of have, yeah, this this this uh diagnosis called dissociation um is one of my specialties. But at the end of the day, I think that when it all boils down, we all kind of function the same. Right? There's something really painful that happened that we didn't know how to deal with, so we created all these ways of staying away from it. And my job is to walk you into the painful thing. And when you walk into the painful thing and you come out the other side, you actually get control and you get freedom and you get what I call emotional sovereignty, which is the ability to kind of like stand in your own center of gravity without being pulled left and right by the world. So that's what I say I work with. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Nothing less. Wow. Yeah, nothing less. It's a lot. Well, you know. Yeah, okay. And so when we talk, when you talk about, you know, going deeper and kind of seeing what we don't want to see, is this how you began your interest in the unconscious mind?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah, so one thing that um, you know, I wanted to come on this podcast and talk about was a process that I kind of I don't I've I don't even want to say created because I don't feel like I own it, but um I was able to tap into called the unconscious mind technique, which is something that I use to guide people into those really painful spaces and learn the truths that they need to know in order to find the relief they're actually looking for in their life. And um, you know, my backstory is that whenever I got into substance abuse treatment and, you know, I was working with a lot of therapists who are very 12-step based, and uh, that's just a different, you know, culture, and they're very much like follow the steps and um could have a lot of rigidity to how they view things and how they practice. And I understand that because it worked for a long time. But as I started listening to clients and hearing their stories, I was like, my goodness, if I had all that happen to me in my life, I might be using drugs too, because that sounds like a lot of pain to cope with. And so quickly after that, um, I started realizing, like, hey, I don't think addiction is the problem here. I think like the pain they're carrying is the problem. And this was back in 2006. Six like 2006, yeah, 20 years ago. Uh trauma was a big thing in the mental health world. Like it's a big thing in the mental health world now, but I had put this piece together way back then.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

And I went and got trained in EMDR, which is like a trauma processing model that's really popular today. Um, back when I got trained in it, they were looking at me like I was, you know, bringing in my witch's pot and brew. Like, you think that's gonna help people? EMDR is eye movement desensitization reprocessing. Sorry. We like our acronyms in the therapy world. We love them. If we can't acronym it, it doesn't qualify. So yeah, eye movement, desensitization, reprocessing. And then what I noticed as I was working using ENDR with people, was that for some people it worked and for some people it didn't. And I'm like, okay, what is this? Like, I'm a pattern, I'd like to sort things out, and I'm real curious, and I try to figure out what is what's going on here. And so um, especially when I got into working with people who had a lot, a lot, a lot of trauma in their backgrounds, the EMDR didn't seem to work as well for them.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And I'm like, why is that uh that it works for this person and not for this person? And what I started to figure out was that for some people, a lot of the things that they actually need to heal from are outside of their awareness.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

They're in this this place called the unconscious mind, which is not a new term, right? I mean, you know, if uh you know, the person who's most associated with that, I guess, would be Freud. He named the unconscious. Um, and you know, Young talks a lot about the unconscious. There's a lot of people who talk about the unconscious, but um how I started viewing it was oh, the reason why their symptoms are not getting better is because the wound that is attached to the symptom is not something that they are readily aware of. It's not something that's in the front of their mind that they can tell me about. It's like they don't even hid it from themselves.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Wow. Right?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

They've hid it from themselves so good that they don't even remember, remember it or they don't have awareness of it. The only way that it's actually showing up in their life is through these symptoms that they are calling the problem. And so I started to like notice that and I started to get curious about it, and I started to kind of uh consult with people about it and ask questions. And somebody talked to me about um, I'm I am, you know, uh trained in hypnosis, I'm um trained in a lot of different things. Um, so I understood the unconscious and how it works, but I also like felt like something was missing from it in terms of hypnohypnotherapy and how they go about working with the unconscious. It just felt to me, it didn't fit my nervous system, some of the ways that hypnotherapy works with the unconscious. And so anyway, so I came across a mentor who kind of talked to me about a process of connecting to this thing called the unconscious. Um, and from there, uh, I was able to start kind of guiding people to the edge of a place where conscious mind and unconscious mind meet.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

And once we got there, uh you would ask, you would like do some work and you would try to figure some things out. But one day I was getting impatient with the process and something in me kind of said, like, hey, instead of being on the edge, why don't we go into the unconscious? Why don't we like just go into this place called the unconscious mind and take a journey there and see if we can't partner with it to actually give us some of the answers and kind of like speed the process up. And so this person I was working with, I was like, hey, I'm feeling like we need to go into the unconscious. What do you think about that? And they're like, okay. And so I guided them in this process of stepping over like this this sense, this feeling, this image they had inside that separated like their conscious mind, which your conscious mind is all the things that you know, remember, recall. Right. It's where we spend most of our time into this place that they could visually see that felt like they're unconscious, right? And so I I helped guide them into that. And as I guided them into that, um, I kind of somehow was able to just know how to interact with this place in a way where I could ask it questions. And as I asked it questions, it kind of guided us to the place where we could find out the thing that needed to be known for that person's symptoms to go away. So uh that happened, and I was like, Well, that was cool. I wonder if this works with other people.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

And how did that experience sit with your first client who Oh, she felt better.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

She was like, Then why didn't we do that sooner? I'm like, Well, I didn't think about it. I didn't know. I um, you know, and she was one of the people who has dissociations, so they often have a lot of things they have to learn from the unconscious. So it wasn't like it was a one one and done, hey, everything's fixed. Right. But the symptom that we were working on that we couldn't get to budge using EMDR or some of the other modalities I use, like the unconscious mind, I say the unconscious mind in this way in therapy is like a laser-guided missile. It it'll take you there so much faster. Um, and it'll get you, because I always say to people, like when you know the right problem and you know what's actually causing the issue, things get better faster. Yeah. And so it's a way to kind of get to the right problem faster. Um, but sh the she was very excited and sh that's what we did from then on. Okay. You know, and uh, you know, just to give you a reference point, um, her type of wounding usually takes decades, decades to successfully resolve. And it took us, sounds like a long time, but considering it took us uh seven years. So it cut the time down dramatically. Um, and it also was very much uh to me, it's a gentler process, and it's uh just more humane because like um, you know, the hor the horrible thing about working with people who have trauma is a lot of times to heal the trauma, you gotta kind of cut like touch in, refill, go back through the trauma. And it's it's painful to be a part of that, it's painful to watch. So one of my goals as a as a therapist was always like, how can I find a way to help people heal with in the fastest way possible with the least amount of suffering?

unknown 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Right. So you shouldn't have to suffer to heal. And so one thing that I found when using the unconscious mind or when going into that place called the unconscious mind, is that it it almost creates like a bubble of safety or a bubble of comfort or a bubble of separation around people that allows them to really go towards painful stuff without having to refeel it and kind of uh have to kind of go through all the things you sometimes have to go through whenever you're helping a person work through a trauma. So yeah, she was very much on board with that too. She was very much like, yes, that was so much better than what we've been doing. Okay. Uh and so I did it with that first client that went working with the unconscious. And uh over the years, I've I have that was back in 2013. So over the last 13 years, you know, I've just been on my own journey of like figuring out what is this, what am what what who all does it work for, what when do I use it, when don't I use it? And what I've figured out over the past 13 years is that most for a lot of people, what they need to know to truly feel better. And I'm not talking about like better on a surface level. I'm talking about like a lot of people, if you talk to them, have this one wound inside of them that they've just learned to live with. It's like, it's just there, it's part of who I am. Maybe it's my makeup, maybe it's my personality. I just know it's there, and it's just something I'm gonna have to live with the rest of my life. And so what I found over the last 13 years is that most people have something that's out of their conscious awareness that is driving a symptom in their life that they feel like they've just resigned to living with that once it's what once you go in the unconscious and you can use the unconscious to find out what's underneath that symptom, and that symptom won't actually resolve. So most people work like this. And you know, people always ask me, Well, I don't know. I don't know if I don't remember things. I'm like, Well, what'd you eat last Tuesday? Yeah. What'd you eat last Tuesday? And they're like, uh, I don't know. I'm like, well, you can't remember what you ate last Tuesday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

So true.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

How do you expect to know what you had happened when you were two or when you were uh during birth or when you were a baby, or when you were, you know, it's like you, yeah, I'm like, there we all have something that is stored outside of our conscious awareness and our work and memory system. We all have it.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

And I suppose too that it's kind of a defense mechanism that we have to kind of forget things on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Just not to remember and bring up that pain.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

And I don't think it's uh, you know, it's like um I tell people, I'm like, you know, when you're a kid, yeah, you're not you're the one thing you have to do to survive is have somebody you attach to. Somebody that you say, This is my person I feel safe with.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

And for some people that's a conflict because the person is not safe. And so they have to take anything that would tell them this person's not safe and put it in the basement, as I call it, like the basement of their mind. And then they create a narrative that helps excuse that person's behavior. Like if I were better, they wouldn't act this way. If if if sh you know, if if I could just do the dishes, if I could get this done, if I could, if I could, if I could, then they wouldn't be this way, or it's my fault because I did this. So it's like they create this narrative that uh basically justifies, justifies or accuses the person of whatever they're doing, or they just completely blank it out because they have to. It's not like it's it's like you have to do this.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

You to survive.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah, you would literally your mind would would would just uh crack. If you if the person who is responsible for caring for you and providing for your safety is unsafe and you know that as a kid, and you also know you're powerless and you can't get out of that, like that's not that's unresolvable. Yeah. So you resolve it by like hiding things from yourself. And I call it playing mental gymnastics. Say it again. Playing mental gymnastics.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Plain mental gymnastics.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah. So and it's not like you choose it, it's like this is what the mind does. Right. The mind does this. And uh so there can be things that we just don't know that are outside of our awareness because they had to be. And what I always say to people is like, if a symptom is showing up in your life, if there is something in your life, how do you know a symptom? A symptom is something that feels like This is not something that I'm okay with. Right? Like I'm not okay with this. That means it's not in line with your highest self.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

And so if there's something in your life that you're doing or you're feeling, you're experiencing that's not quite in line with who you feel you are, that's a symptom. And symptoms are not the enemy. They're actually kind of like a flare gun that says, hey, there's something down here that you need to remember and know in order for me to feel better.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

So it's kind of like our body's organic way of restoring us to health. Just like if you had an organ that was had problems, you would want it to give you a symptom before it completely went out, right? Sure. So we know that we have an issue to take care of. Oh, hey, I need to get taken care of. It's the same thing with the psyche, right? The psyche has symptoms. Otherwise, we'll just don't keep going along and have mental breakdowns. So uh for most people, the way it works is that there is something outside of conscious awareness and outside of what we know about our life that is causing the symptoms that just won't shift. Yes. Right. So I've say to people like, hey, if you go to therapy and whatever y'all do shifts the symptom, then hey, that was what what was needed. But if there's something you've been working on, working on, working on, working on, working on, and it's not shifting, it's probably because it's in the unconscious. Make sense. Yeah. So this process I created, the unconscious mind technique, is a way to kind of go into the unconscious and ask it, honestly. I partner with it and I ask it to help us understand what we need to know in order for that symptom to shift. And uh yeah, it's a lot of times what I tell people is it's it's it's kind of like if you think about the unconscious, it's have you ever been in a in a deep state of uh like meditation, or maybe you were in between sleep and wake, and all of a sudden an insight dropped in. And you're like, oh, that makes perfect sense. Now I understand that. Or you got some awareness or you got some direction from inside yourself about what you needed to do or how which direction you needed to go. Like that's the unconscious, right? It's this place inside of us that does have all the answers we're looking for. Because one of the beliefs I have as a therapist is I can't, I can't tell you. I can't tell you what to do. I can't tell you what's causing your problem. Like I have theories and I have all this stuff that I learned at school, but honestly, most of those don't pan out when I take people in. Like what is actually causing their problem doesn't fit neatly into a theory. But I know that what you need to heal is inside of you. My job is to guide you there and to ask the right questions so that the truth you need to know can be revealed so that you can have the power in your life back. Like that's what I do, you know. That's why I'm like, yeah, I call myself a therapist, but I do I do different, you know. I'm like, hey, I'm I got my job is to guide you on a journey into yourself. So because I know that inside you is where the answer you're looking for is. So that's kind of a the unconscious mind in a nutshell and my journey with it.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

That sounds very empowering for the individuals.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, it is. And it's always uh it's always fascinating because a lot of times they're shocked by what the answer is, or like, whoa, but you know what they say? Because a lot of times people think a lot of times the fear of the pain is worse than the actual pain. Because I walk people into pretty, you know, horrific stuff sometimes. And on the other side, they feel better. They're like, wow, now I make sense. Because what it's all about is self-compassion. So if you have something you're doing in your life and you don't understand it, then you just think there's something wrong with me. I'm broken, I can't believe this. When you go are guided in to find out why you do it, and then you come out the other side, you're like, oh my gosh, that makes perfect sense. I have compassion for myself now. And that's what this to me, that's what the journey of life is all about, right? Is self-love. Right? If you get self-love right, then the rest of it falls into place.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

So these answers that come from within us are a journey to help us number one remember who we are, and number two, have compassion and self-love.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Really well said.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah. And it is so true what you're saying. I mean, once we have that self-love, love for others will just naturally flow.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, it does. Love for others naturally flows. And then the other thing is when you have that self-love, you don't need others to validate yourself. To validate you. Yes. You know, you don't you don't need you don't need, you just know I'm okay. And that's the journey of life, right? Is get into that place. Yeah. Because a lot of us were taught different by people who were taught different. And it's it's generational, you know, a lot of times. So um, that's why I love the unconscious mind. I mean, I don't even feel like this is doing it justice because it's of it's it's so me, it's the most powerful healing tool I've worked with. And that's, you know, I'm I'm biased because I feel like I it is my baby, but I've also trained other therapists in it.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 27:07

And I mean, a therapist who I trained in text me today and was like, the unconscious mind is so cool. And I'm like, yeah, and she said, like a client who I've been stuck with for, you know, for months and months and months. We did two hour unconscious mind session and it shifted. Wow. And like that's the power of not even the unconscious mind, but the power of taking people deep enough so they can find their own answers.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Mm-hmm. Is that the key that to the unconscious mind, the power of it? Just having the clients see what they haven't been able to see.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yes, always say that it's about remembering the treat you had to forget in order to survive.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Remembering the truth that you had to forget in order to survive.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Yeah. And these little moments where you gave your power away, right? Where you had to give your power away in order to survive. Like, for instance, I was talking to a person uh before I came here about like uh, you know, how when you're for some people, when they're a kid and they're raised around, you know, wounded adults, there can be negative messages said to them over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

And I feel like what I see with people is like for a while the psyche fights that and the psyche's like, no, I'm not gonna believe that. I'm not gonna believe that, I'm not gonna believe that. Like this, and but then there comes a point where it's almost like the pressure of those messages becomes so much, and it's that whole, who do I choose, me or attachment, that we almost uh align with them and we accept them as true. And those moments are fundamentally uh shape our default program and of how we run the world and how we run the life. And so remembering those moments and remembering what was going on when you agreed to give your power away, when you agreed, like I'm gonna believe your truth over my truth. And then choosing, like, no, no, I see it now and I'm no longer doing this as part of how you kind of get your power back, is realizing like that's something I had to do in order to survive was to believe that's just your point of view over mine. However, now that I'm an adult and I'm older and I don't need that anymore, I'm choosing to release myself from that. You know, and so a lot of times in the unconscious mind, it's not just about learning things we forgot, it's about learning these little moments where it was it was a battle of of like us versus the uh versus the caregiver, and we aligned with the caregiver to survive, and now it's time to let that go. So um there's all kinds of ways that we had to adapt to survive.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

And we then call it us. Then we think it's like who we are, and it's not who we are. If you peel it all back, we're so much more than those adaptations. And what I love about the unconscious mind is that it's like the best way to peel all that back because what it's ultimately guiding you on is a journey to truth about who you are. Because when you remove all that, you get to see who you are and the essence of who you are. And a lot of times, I don't take it there, but that's when it turns into like kind of soul work and like understanding who you are, even beyond this human body.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Got it on a more spiritual level.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

On a spiritual level, yeah, it takes you on a spiritual journey. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

So Laura, I I think it's natural that m some people might hear the word, you know, or the term unconscious mind and it might seem abstract or even woo for some. How can this actually show up or appear in a session?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

How, you know, what kind of clients have you seen where you have definitely been been like reaffirmed of the power of this work?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Oh, well, most of them, however, I get that. You know, I want to just take a moment and say to people, I get the abstractness of this concept of the unconscious mind. Um, and I constantly am like, oh, am I right or am I wrong about this? And then I work with clients and I'm like, oh my gosh, you this can't be denied. Um, and so what it might look, what it looks like in a session for me is a person shows up and they're talking to me about whatever the problems are in their life. And my first goal is to kind of hear the one that matters the most. And then once we agree that, yeah, that's the thing that if it changed, I would feel better, then I kind of guide them on this journey and ask the questions to get to the root. And so a client I worked with the other day, just to put it into some, you know, real life examples, uh, showed up and he's somebody I've worked with several times. And he, you know, this day what he showed up was this place of feeling like he the place he was in in life, which is a pretty tough place right now, is just hopeless and never gonna end and feels completely endless and like there's no point. So he was stuck in some learned helplessness, as I call it. And I'm like, hey, that's not really like the way you operate usually. So I think that's probably the thing we need to work on today. And so he agreed. And we went in the unconscious mind, and as we went in the unconscious mind, um, what we got to was a four-year-old who and how the unconscious mind gives information isn't straightforward. Like it's not like me and you sitting here talking, you know, it'll give me a blip here and a blip there, and it'll tell this, and it's it speaks in metaphors and it speaks in riddles, I say. That's like my expertise is figuring the riddle out. But as we followed the trail and we figured out what was happening, this four-year-old kind of showed like a line going back of all the paternal figures, right? It was like a line. It showed like dad and granddad and great-grandfather, and I was like, okay, so patterns that had been repeated. Yeah, and it's like I was like, okay, so is this generational? And it was like, yes. And as we tapped into the generational aspect of it, what he realized was that he watched his father and his grandfather live this life of almost obligation and duty, duty, responsibility, responsibility, and getting up every day and basically being miserable to check a box that never got checked, right? Like the box never got checked because they both are or his dad's still alive, but his grandfather died in a place where he was still not happy and his father is not either. And so he's like, Oh my gosh, I'm seeing that they both were living in this dutiful, obligatory, responsible way, kind of work yourself to the bone to try to accomplish something. Got it. And I'm like, okay. Uh so, and then I was like, Does that feel like something that you agreed to? And he's like, Yes. And I was like, okay, so let's go into that agreement. And as you go into the agreement, can you feel it and tell me kind of what is the agreement? I can't quite remember the agreement right now, but it was kind of like, uh, this is what you do, don't fight it. This is who you are, this is what you're meant for. It's never gonna end. So see, that matches exactly what he was saying. His problem was endless, it's hopeless, what's the point? Right. And so as I guided him into that and he realized that, I'm like, do you want to keep that? Like, do you want to keep it? Yeah. You know, do you want to keep that? And he's like, Pardon my French, but hell no.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

I'm like, perfect, because you have the authority to break it today. And so then we broke it, and he instantly felt that helplessness lift off of. He's like, Oh my gosh, I feel better. He was so tired, he could barely hold his eyes open when he got to me. I'm like, wow, I have never seen you this way. This is a high energy person who has four businesses and is raising a family and doing all this stuff. Like, he is high energy. And I'm like, I have never seen you this tired. And I literally saw it lift off of him, and he was like, Whoa, I feel better. And I'm like, Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

And so he wasn't aware before the process with you that he had kind of signed on, signed up for this agreement that he as the man of how him.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

And it's, you know, there's a backstory to it because that we got about why the four-year-old was like, Oh, this is the best option for connection. Like, this is my this is how I'm gonna be accepted, this is how I'm gonna be loved, this is how I'm gonna feel connection is aligning with the the men of the family.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

And it didn't work, right? It just kind of instantly felt like bondage, even to that four-year-old self. And so once we released that and four-year-old felt better, he was in, I mean, literally, I saw it almost lift off of him, like, whoa. It's like he came out of a uh a daze. Um, and I checked in with him, you know, the next day or two, and he's he's feeling better. He has more work to do, he knows that. Um, but he feels better, you know, and and that's the thing. I'm not saying that one unconscious mind session fixes everything.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

But there's some some symptoms that we have that are generational, or they happen before the age of two, before we can have narrative recall, because before the age of two, um, you don't have the ability to put words to stories. Okay so things are stored more in the body.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Uh-huh. Right?

SPEAKER_00 36:26

You're that's why people will have a lot of um compulsive behaviors, or because they feel something in their body they don't know how to manage. So then they go do this behavior, like, you know, porn or shopping or eating or whatever it is, drugs and alcohol, some type of behavior to try to make that feeling feel better when it's actually it's something that probably happened before the age of two.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

That needs to be known in order for that feeling to actually shift. So, like there's all this stuff that trying to access it from trying about it and remembering just isn't going to work because it's almost like there's a wall there that you're not gonna be able to get it until you get in the right space in the psyche. Um, and so that's what it looks like in in action. Um, just a session I had the other day. I mean, I have, I have, I always have I'm always amazed. I'm always amazed. Like, I don't feel like it's me. I feel like I guide the process, I feel like it's the unconscious mind. And I'm constantly like bowing in reverence to what the unconscious mind does for people because it literally frees them from a lifetime of whatever they've been carrying, just because they were willing to go in and be curious and be open and follow and allow the process to unfold.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Yeah. So wow, that sounds really powerful. Yeah. Is it painful for a lot of clients?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Not and that's the thing. It's not really.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

And that's the other beauty I love about it is that for a lot of clients, it's like, oh, that's what it is. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

It's it's kind of the moment of truth.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah. And then as soon one of my mentors always said, truth is stabilizing. Because it really is. Like truth is stabilizing. Like, think about in your life, if you've ever had something that you like were fighting against, you know, some type of decision or some type of conflict, and then all of a sudden you sat with the truth and how it just was like, that feels better.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Right? Oh my gosh, that feels better. Even though it's things might get worse in the external world because of it. Like, oh my gosh, I feel better. Because truth, truth like gives the nervous system something to anchor into. Like, oh, now I know. So for some people, it can be, I wouldn't say painful. For some people, it can uh, you know, they can cry, they but not painful. It's not okay. But when they come out, I always tell people, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna guide you in, I'm gonna find out what needs to be known, and then I'm gonna bring you out and you're gonna bring this awareness with you.

unknown 38:48

Right?

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Like whatever we learn, it's not like you're asleep. You're talking to me the entire time. Sure. And you come out of the unconscious mind, and now you have this new thing that you have to put somewhere, and that's when grief can happen, right? Like that's when grief can happen because people sometimes have to grieve. Um, for some people it's just like, oh, I feel better and I can move on now. Right. But for some people, there is a an emotional response on the other side of the work to whatever was learned. But I always tell people there's two types of pain there's unresolvable pain and there's resolvable pain. Unresolvable pain is like all the pain of staying out of whatever it is you need to know, and resolvable pain is like knowing what the thing is, dealing with it, and then grieving it and moving on. Yeah. You know, and so it shifts the type of pain we're dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

And it it rings true to me when you say that you really want your clients to tap into the answers that they hold.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Because when they see it, they they know how to resolve it.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

I mean, you know, I worked in substance abuse for 17 years and like you know, a lot of substance abuse is telling people what they should and shouldn't do. And that never works, as evidenced by the relapse rate. Um I know that just as a mother. It doesn't work. It doesn't work to tell you what to do, right? It does not work. No. However, if I guide you in and you get the revelation that that's what you need to do, it's kind of like seeing something you can't unsee.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

It's like, oh, okay, uh, that is it, or oh, okay, that's that's that's truth. And always tell people like truth hits you in a way other things don't. You know, like because they're they're like it it just hits you in a way that you feel it. So it's much more powerful when people hear it from themselves.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

Yeah. I imagine that relationships, you know, are a huge reason why some clients come to you, you know, they're struggling with relationships, whether it be with a loved one, a spouse, a partner, a parent, children. How does uh relationships show up in the unconscious mind?

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Well, if you wanna if you want to be, if you want to learn what's unconscious, look at your relationships. I always say that your most intimate relationships are a petri dish for your wounding. Um and if you're upset at somebody else, I always put ask myself, like, what is what in me has to shift in order for this to change? Because they're a reflection of our unconscious, it's all a mirror. But in the unconscious mind, you know, um, when people come to me, it's it's it's kind of its own skill set to not listen to their narrative. So if they come to me and they're talking about like their person and how their person is getting on their nerves or how their person's doing this and their person's doing that, and their person like I'm like, okay, so could you pause for a minute and hold the like suspend what you think the problem is and tell me like what's what what what is that person making you feel, right? Like not good enough, misunderstood, whatever. And could you sit with the idea that they're not where this started? That that was already there, they're just feeding into something that was already there, right? And we could go in and find out like where this actually started. And if we go in and find out where it started, then that person will no longer either, either they won't be, they won't trigger you like that. It's quite interesting. So I had a uh that makes sense. That's it's it's like people, trust me. I took I'm like, I do this all the time. Like, lesson, they are not your problem. You gotta figure out like what inside you is either allowing them to stay in your life or what inside you is being triggered that you're like wanting them to change to make you feel better. That that's not ever gonna work. Like somebody else, they'll just be tap dancing their whole life trying to make you feel better. It's like it's they're triggering something inside of you, and they're supposed to, because it's a journey and we're supposed to be triggered so that we can then work on it. But um, you know, I've worked with people with relationship issues all the time. Uh, the hardest part about relationships issues is not buying into the fact that it's a relationship issue. So I had a guy who came to me, and uh he one of his things was that he would kind of become super, super, super uh anxious at his partner wanting to do anything without him, right? So this super anxiety and kind of like she returned, he would basically explode on her uh because he couldn't deal with his own anxiety, so he would lash out at her, and she was at the place where she's like, I don't even want to go anywhere anymore because it's not worth it, right? And it's, you know, he knew this was a problem. So he comes to me and, you know, he has all these, like, you know, the litany of things he would say, like, well, she just doesn't include me in things, and she this and she that and she this. I'm like, okay, can we take a minute? And I want you to tell me, like, what is it you feel when she's not in the room with you? And then he told me what he felt. And I'm like, what if we went in and found out where that comes from? And he's like, okay. And so we went in the unconscious mind, and it took us to a baby in a crib who was super dysregulated, like crying, screaming. And he knew that he knew this, that as a baby he had colic. Uh, and so he knew that about his history. But he he really and truly felt that baby and felt how um much terror that baby was in because there was nobody there. And it felt like uh almost being in a black hole of fear and terror and wondering where where's mom? Where's mom? Where's mom? Where's mom? Where's mom?

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

And uh that baby, once I guided him in and we were able to kind of understand that baby and understand his the baby story better, and he was able to actually connect and take that baby in and provide that baby with some safety and comfort in life today. It it again, it's I'm not trying to say it's magic, but I saw him in front of me, like that feels better.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

And I'm like, wow, that he's been living in a triggered baby state for like decades.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

Wow. And he was completely unconscious of it.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

It was he's unconscious of it, you know, completely unconscious of it.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

And so all these years he wasn't remembering that baby state.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

No, uh-uh. He didn't remember the baby state, he didn't know, he definitely wouldn't have thought that the baby state had anything to do with like why he didn't like his wife being away from him. Sure. You know, and so but you know, ultimately, after we worked together and we found that he was able to let her go do. He was like, I don't even know why I was so worried about it in the first place. Yeah. He was taking kelan pen on an ongoing basis to manage his anxiety.

unknown 46:18

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

And it wasn't like he tried to stop that. It he just didn't need it anymore. And even his wife was like, he doesn't even carry the colanapin with him anymore. And that's the beauty of finding the right problem. Uh when when I work with people and they're like, I want to stop this. I'm like, well, we could, you know, beat our head against the wall trying to make you stop that.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

But what if we found the reason you're doing it and solve that? Then that just you don't need it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Sure, it just will resolve itself. It just resolves itself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

You know, and so part of like how I work is like, I'm not even going to talk to you about your your kilonopen or your this or letting her go places and doing this and doing that. I want to find out why you feel like a super anxious when she's not in the room with you. You know, and then we resolve that. And so, you know, it's it's it's stuff like that. Like our relationships are just a reflection of something in us that needs to be healed if they're dysfunctional.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

They are. They're a refle a reflection of something in us that needs to be healed. Because the more you heal yourself and the more you work on things and the more you uncover all this stuff that, you know, you had to forget in order to survive, the more healthy your relationships naturally become.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

And that means some of them fall away. But you know what? When they do, you're okay with it because you're like, oh, okay, I can see that that's not good for me anymore. Right. As opposed to needing that in your life to validate you or to make you feel better.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

So I work with relationship issues all the time. And like I said, the hardest part of that is helping people not be so fixed on the narrative that if they were better, I would feel better. I'm like, that's not true. If they were better, the the other person. If you would do this, I would see I'm like, no, that's not true. That's not true.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

That's not true.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Yeah. Like it makes complete sense with the example you just gave us.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah. It's like, no, no, I'm I want to help you have emotional sovereignty, which means that nobody else has to act anyway for you to feel better. You just feel better because you know yourself better.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

So, yeah. So relationships are fun um and when working with them. And you know, I think that they are they're they're they're like a they are a tool for us to heal through. You know, like the people in our life who trigger us are really a tool for us to turn inward and get to know ourselves better.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

Yeah. It makes sense as we are are we as we are are all social beings.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Yeah. How has all this work through clients and also as the the facilitator, if you will, of this deep healing process changed you or shaped you in a different way as a therapist, as an individual? I bet it's had a lot of profound impact on you as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Well, I'll keep it simple because it's like a whole podcast in and of itself, because it really truly took me on a spiritual journey. Um, because I've work in I've I've I've worked with some people who've been through some of the most terrific things you can imagine when I worked with the dissociative clients, and that that puts you in a faith crisis because it's like, how can how can this be existing and there and there be anything up there that runs everything? You know, it's like how can all this exist? And it also makes you like question humanity. Um, so I went through a f a period of that and I had to figure it all out because um uh the other thing about uh the unconscious mind is like uh what I love about it is it's constantly pushing my belief systems because where people take me, I'll be like, uh, I don't know if I believe that, but then I have to kind of come out and work on it to understand like why do I believe the thing that I don't think I like why do I have the belief system that would have limited me there?

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Um, and so what I'll say in short is that ultimately where I've come through 13 years of working in the unconscious mind and with many different people and with uh a lot of uh painful material with people, is that the biggest thing I think it gave me, which I am so grateful for, almost like tears in my eyes, is it helped me get out of what I call duality, which is the belief that there is good and bad and right and wrong and dark and light and heaven and hell and all this. There's like it's there's not. Like to me, there's not. All right. And I and that was not a I I took that journey kicking and screaming because as a human, we want an enemy, right? We want somebody to blame it all on. Yeah. Um, through this process, I've realized that like duality doesn't exist. There is no other. It's all one operating in different m manifestations. And so what that did for me was help me be emotionally sovereign because at the end of the day, I can't blame anybody, I can't be mad at anybody. Like I I kind of am like, okay, I I can I can accept this too because there is no other. And that's a short way to say it. Okay. So I'm eternally grateful because the unconscious mind took me on that ride.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

And there's a whole level of freedom that comes when you get that. Yeah. It's like it's like the ultimate level of freedom for me.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Why do you say that?

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Well, I think because it doesn't like I'm not uh whatever's happening in life, whether it be politically or whether it be family or whether it be, I c I understand that in some way, shape or form this sounds egotistical, so I don't want to sound that way, but like in some way, shape or form I had my hand in orchestrating it all. So like it's gonna be okay. Like it's all it's gotta it's got a purpose, it's got a rhythm, it's got a flow, it's got it's got a place it's going. And it makes it to where I don't I don't like n have resentment or anger or hatred or all those really dense emotions, as I call them, for others.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

You know, I'm just like, wow, we're all just walking this journey together. And in some way, shape, or form, I am you and you are me, and you're having a complete different experience than I am, but at the end of the day, it's all the same, you know?

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

So it like gave me more love and compassion for others and for this journey we're on, and it's helped me have a like radical acceptance.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about right now. So when you talk about when you said that there is no duality, the way I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Laura, is that you see that there is no good and bad really. It it all is as it is, and so that has just given you a greater acceptance of how life is and not attaching it with a bad or good outcome and just kind of Yeah, and it's also helped me go places with people that I wouldn't otherwise be able to go.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

It's like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

Why is that? How?

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Well, people have scary stuff inside of them, like a dark, shadowy figure, or sometimes they'll run into something that they'll call a demon, or they'll run into, you know, Trinadus thing to somebody that they regret. And it's like, you know, for some people that might they might enter that space with fear or judgment. And with me, I'm just like, okay, so let's explore it more. Let's figure out what's actually under it. And yeah, under it is never what they think it is. You know, it's like just it's uh yeah. So I feel like that's the th the gift that I've gotten through this work is this place of truly stepping into overcoming duality. And and like I used to be like I was like uh upset about having to do life, if that makes sense. Like a lot of people can be like, I don't, I can't believe I that's I I was forced into this. It's like now I'm like grateful to be able to have this experience and to be able to go through this journey that the I call it the ride, the ride of life. If you find it's like it's like the ultimate theme park ride. So all you gotta do is keep your hands and feet inside the cart at all times and you'll survive. But uh now I'm grateful and not resentful that I'm even have to be here, you know, doing this and all that. So it really helped me overcome a lot.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Yeah. It's interesting how helping others, you know, ultimately we're helping ourselves this way.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Yeah, it really is. It's uh it's all that's what it all is, right? I always say, like, if you want to know your purpose because everybody, and the other thing that people will come to me, like, I need to know my purpose in life. I'm like, well, what's your journey been?

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Because a lot of times your journey points to your purpose, right? Your journey points to your purpose. It's just about like surrendering to that and knowing that you're capable of doing it. So I feel like it's a parallel process. Like I'm on a journey and then I get through a part of my journey, and then all of a sudden a person will show up with the exact same thing I just worked on, uh, needing help with that. And then I'm I'm like, oh, I know how to do this now because I did it for myself. Or if they'll show up and I feel stuck with something and I'm like, I don't know the answer to this. And then I'm like, okay, this means I need to figure it out in me. So it's like this parallel process of us all being on the journey together. And it's a beautiful thing to be a part of. I'm I love what I do. I am grateful most days that I that that people allow me to take them into the depths and figure out all this together. And I love the network I've built of people who who understand the unconscious mind and work in the unconscious mind and and the conversations we have around the dinner table are quite interesting.

SPEAKER_03 55:58

I can imagine. I would love to hear them.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:02

Cool. Well, Laura, thank you so much. I guess my last question is, you know, if anybody's listening to this podcast and wants to get in touch with you, how and where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Yeah, so um my current practice is named Advanced Therapeutic Interventions. If you want to reach out to me, if you, you know, I do do um unconscious mind sessions uh here locally. Uh, they take around three to three to four hours because I'm I'm a I'm a therapist who works intensively, meaning that I don't do the hour a week therapy model. Uh I'm like, hey, we're here until this piece of work is done.

unknown 56:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

That's how I work. Uh and so I do work here in town offering unconscious mind sessions. So if something in this podcast stirred something in you, like, hey, that sounds like something I might need, you can reach out to me at Lauraevanglow at gmail.com. Um, I think my name will be on the podcast. Yeah. So just put at gmail.com behind that or my website, Advanced Therapeutic Interventions.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

Okay, perfect. Thank you so much, Laura. I really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Thank you so much for having me. And I'm just so grateful that the universe brought us together. Likewise. Brought me into your path so that we could do this and so that I could meet you.

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Thank you. I appreciate your your words. That's very kind.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Thank you.