Loneliness is Killing Your Longevity with Darin Olien

Emmy-winning documentary host, "superfood hunter," and author Darin Olien sits down with Almost Forever hosts Renee and Melanie to explore the most overlooked pillar of longevity: human connection. Drawing on decades spent traveling to remote corners of the world and living alongside indigenous cultures, Darin explains that the through-line to a long, healthy life isn't optimization or biohacking — it's community, whole foods eaten together, and the simple act of pausing to be present with people you love. Darin shares how a daily practice of breathwork and stream-of-consciousness journaling shaped his life's work, he unpacks the "toxic load" behind rising autoimmune and fertility issues, why he's eaten plant-forward for 20 years, how giving your body a pause — like Prolon's 5-Day Fasting Mimicking Diet — creates space to reset, and why joy, play, and self-love may be the most radical longevity tools of all.

In our Mailbag: whether two cups of black coffee a day are helping or hurting your longevity, and if a 10-minute walk after meals really blunts your blood sugar spike. And in our Myth or Method: Are seed oils toxic? 

🕐 Chapters: 

0:00 "No one's alone in this. Loneliness is a really big deal — but it can be curbed quite quickly." 

2:51 Myth or Method: Are seed oils toxic? 

9:26 Meet Darin Olien — Emmy-winning host, superfood hunter, and author of Fatal Conveniences 

9:52 The longevity non-negotiables he's found across every culture: community and whole foods 

12:32 How to rebuild community and connection in the Western world 

15:55 Loneliness as a pillar of longevity — the internal and external kind 

20:30 Self-knowing: breathwork, journaling, and learning to listen inside 

25:12 How Down to Earth with Zac Efron was born from his journaling 

31:48 Fatal Conveniences: his father's story and the toxins we can't see 

36:04 Toxic load, autoimmune conditions, and the "thousand tiny things" 

38:36 Why he's eaten plant-forward for 20 years — "you don't need that much protein" 

44:52 Sustainability you can actually do: sprouts, farmers markets, and eating in season 

50:58 The radical longevity power of joy, play, and the Roadmap to Happiness series 

56:56 "Joy is the mother of all emotions" — feeling it all to get there 

59:02 Staying hopeful in a doomsday world — boundaries and surrounding yourself with inspiring people 

1:07:03 The Darin Olien daily recipe for longevity 

1:12:44 Self-love, forgiveness, and "what if I'm enough?" 

1:17:36 Mailbag: Two cups of black coffee a day — helping or hurting my longevity? 

1:21:17 Mailbag: Does a 10-minute walk after meals really blunt the blood sugar spike?

Guest Bio: Darin Olien is an author, environmental activist, and co-host of the Netflix series Down to Earth with Zac Efron, which won an Emmy in 2021. Known as the "superfood hunter" for his decades spent sourcing nutrient-dense foods from remote regions around the world, Darin is the host of the SuperLife podcast and the author of SuperLife and Fatal Conveniences, which exposes the everyday toxins hiding in our food, water, homes, and products. He is currently creating Roadmap to Happiness, a new series exploring the essential pillars of contentment and community. Through all of his work, Darin champions whole-food, plant-forward living, sustainability, and the belief that connection — to ourselves and to each other — is the foundation of a long, thriving life.

Listen to the SuperLife podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about Darin at superlife.com, and follow his upcoming series Roadmap to Happiness at roadtohappy.net.

Have a longevity question? DM us @prolon on Instagram and you might make it into our mailbag!

Learn more about Prolon's 5-Day Fasting Mimicking Diet and longevity lifestyle products  at prolonlife.com. 

Almost Forever is brought to you by Prolon, powered by L-Nutra, the longevity technology company. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only and is not intended as medical advice, diagnosis, treatment, or a substitute for professional healthcare services. Always consult a qualified healthcare provider before making changes to your diet, exercise, supplement, or health routine. Guest views are their own and may not reflect those of Prolon or its parent company L-Nutra. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

No one's alone in this, right? Loneliness is a really big deal, but it can be curbed quite quickly. Connection alone, uh, meaningful conversations. Around a dinner table. Yeah, of trusted people that you care about and you love. Oh, you know, that's that's that's the breath that we need more than ever, especially today.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Welcome to the Almost Forever Podcast. My name is Melanie Murphy Richter. My name is Renee Fitton, and we are longevity dietitians. Uh, we both work at El Neutra, and we're here to share all of our incredible information about how to live a long and healthy life. And today's episode is no exception. We have an incredible guest, one of our favorites, honestly, Darren O'leen.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

He We don't have favorites.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

We may or may not have some favorites, but um, Darren Oleen is uh won an Emmy not too long, a couple years ago, for his work on uh Down to Earth Earth with Zach Efron, which was a documentary series. Um he is the host of Super Life, a podcast. He recently uh published a book called Fetal Conveniences, which we do go into in today's episode. I really, really found fascinating. He's working on a show called The Roadmap to Happiness, which should be out, I think, either late summer or early fall, um, with the likes of Shaylene Woodley and uh Jason Mamoa and Michael. Yeah, it's gonna be really good. We're really excited. And this conversation honestly warmed my heart because it it's so much about community and just being a human in the world, which really is an under-discussed component to longevity, which I'm really excited about.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

But before we got in the feels on this one, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

We did, we did. We got into the heart strings on this one, which I I really loved. Um, but before we do that, every episode we start with a myth or method. Today we've got a really fun one for you, and also we end our episodes with um a mailbag opportunity. So we answer your questions. So if you have any interest in learning about any nutrition, longevity questions under the sun, go ahead and and message us, DM us at Prolon, which is our Instagram channel, and we will answer them here live. So stay tuned. Stay tuned for some really good ones.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Yeah, today we're talking black coffee, we're talking about post-meal walks. So I think we're gonna cover some good stuff, but what I'm super excited about is today's myth or method because it's super controversial.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Okay, let's do it. We love controversy, though. Tiz is nutrition, don't you feel?

SPEAKER_04 2:45

All right. All right, let's go. Let's go. Um, okay, so myth or method of the week is our seed oils toxic. Boom, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

I'll just dive it. She needs it. That's it. That's it. Open it and question. Yeah. Okay. Seed oils do get a bad rap. They do get a bad rap. And for good reason. Um, and this is a very nuanced topic. So, first of all, seed oils like from sunflower oil, canola oil, any types of oils you quite literally extract from seeds or other types of plants like that. Um, they are very high, more or less, the the conversation comes down to the fact that they are very high in omega-6. Omega-6 is part of the omega family. Um, the ratio between omega-3, which we are all very well aware, comes from things like you know, fish and nuts and seeds. The ratio of omega-3 to omega omega-6 is severely imbalanced in our Western diet because we have a lot of processed foods, a lot of um uh a lot of convenience foods that use seed oils because they are cheap and easy to use. And we are getting a lot of omega-6 and not a lot of omega-3, and that can cause inflammation in the body. It can cause lots of other issues. Well, you know, I see a lot of people with gut health issues that have imbalanced omega-6 to omega-3 ratios. So ultimately, it comes down to the ratio, what else you are doing in your diet, how much of these seed oils you're consuming. Um yeah, that's that's my my overarching hot take.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

Okay, so do you believe that seed oils are bad? Or should be limited?

SPEAKER_03 4:41

I think we're gonna disagree. I I think they should be limited. I think they should be limited. I for sure. Is that what you were thought? You didn't think I was gonna say that?

SPEAKER_04 4:50

No, I think that you were gonna say that. That's why I think that we're gonna disagree.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Yeah. I think they so um limited in that we I think a lot of people do not know what's in their food. And I think a lot of people are getting a lot of things, including the other, the other real problematic one that I talk about all the time is added sugar. Lots of healthy foods that are labeled as healthy foods are filled with lots of things that are actually not that healthy. Seed oils and and added sugar are two of those things. So if you are eating a lot of your foods from from pre-made packages conveniently, uh then you are probably getting way too much. If you were, if you were cooking at home a lot and have, you know, some crackers in your diet or have some convenience foods, but it's it's at bay and it's low, you don't need to be worried about this. This is not a problem. But this is really truly a wake-up call, I hope, for people who are doing a lot of their eating out or foods eating out, and that are not necessarily taking care for finding brands and ingredient, you know, uh types of foods that have healthy ingredients in them. Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

I mean, I think that to me is the bigger problem, is not so much the seed oils themselves or, you know, a lot of the the arguments around seed oils being bad is also the fact that it they are difficult to extract the oils from seeds at any like significant volume, right? And so we have to use additional processing techniques, which people claim can add things like hexanes, et cetera, into the oil, which are problematic. And so, you know, hypothetically, you know, if you were to use like a cold-pressed canola oil, maybe that would be a a better option. I uh to me, I think that we're we're focusing on the wrong thing here. Like this is you when you are consuming canola oil, for example, in if you're using it, you know, to baking, baking, whatever, et cetera, you're probably not having it in any significant amount that is going to cause any sort of health problems. Now, if you are consuming a ton of ultra-processed foods in which you are finding a lot of these seed oils because they are the cheapest ones to use and are made in such significant quantities at this point, that's where you're getting the real big problems. And so I I I worry when we start creating this huge kerfuffle around seed oils that people are now, you know, going and saying, Oh, I just don't I'm gonna go to McDonald's and get the beef tallow fries that are now coming out instead of the seed oils.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like well, listen, listen, yes, this is the part of nutrition that is that I actually quite love, you know, contextualizing these topics, but it is true. It's it's about what you are doing most often. How knowledgeable are you about the brands that you're choosing and the habits that you have? I mean, just to give you an example, I think a lot of people, when we when we saw this big shift from dairy to plant-based milks, for instance, which by the way, I am casein-intolerant, which is the protein-founded milk, I can't have milk, so I've always been on the plant-based milk train by necessity. Um, but things like oat milk have a lot of seed oils. If you are having eight lattes a day and a s several smoothies, protein smoothies, and using this all day, every day in an, you know, that's a lot of seed oils, right? So you'd I think it's important for you to go into your pantry, look at the things that you consume regularly, check the ingredients, what's in there? Where are you potentially getting more of some of these potentially harmful ingredients when they are consumed in excess, right? And where can you potentially balance that a little bit better? Okay. So I think we're on the same train.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

Are we, okay? Well, myth or method. Three, two.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Wait, wait, rephrase the question. Are they bad?

SPEAKER_04 8:52

Okay. Are seed oils toxic? Myth or method? Three, two, one. Myth. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

They're not innately toxic. Okay. They're not innately toxic. Okay, perfect. All right, good, good. Listen, listen. This is great. Okay. Um, well, good. Glad we got that out of the way. Um, please tune in to our amazing conversation with the very dear Darren Oline, and please stay tuned also for our mailbag at the end. We we love the questions today. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

See you soon. See you now.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

I'm just gonna start by saying so much of the conversation around longevity is around optimization, physical optimization, mental optimization. But you, Darren, have been taking a more macro view of longevity for a long time, actually. You're kind of one of the pioneers of Western cultures to go in away from our Western culture and come back and look at sustainability practices, environment, community, and how all of these intersect in the health span and um our ability to be resilient humans. So, as you've been spending decades traveling the world and exploring other cultures, what are the non-negotiables that you found with longevity and health span that have been true across the map? Or is there something like a through line in your work?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Uh I mean, certainly. Um, you know, the the things that pop up the most and now science backs it up is community. Um and of course, whole food eating. But it's also they come together indigenously, indigenous cultures, and meaning that you're eating together in family, you're shutting down, you're enjoying those moments. There's been like many moments in my life where I'm in the middle of nowhere eating with the family and actually learning and enjoying and and and and those those I I don't think you can underestimate the power of that stopping and just enjoying uh time together and eating together and just that pause of that we have in in our our Western world seems to be pushing so very hard at. And um and you know, and with that, um reflecting on the day, you know, reflecting on the moments and and and that kind of dynamic of family and community doesn't have to be family, it can be chosen family, it can be friends, it can be whatever. But those are ring true as some of the greatest. Because even though I've traveled many places in the world, getting to actually sit with people is is the things that kind of are the most powerful and really where all the stories come from, really.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Yeah, it's it sounds a lot like presence and a distraction. Living without distraction so that you can be present, right? And I also feel like you know, as dietitians, we talk a lot about uh food being not just something that you get for nourishment, but how we how we connect, how we how we integrate with each other and share cultures and ideas and celebrate and you know all of that. So that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yeah, it's the muse to do that. Yeah. Right? And then when you're doing it and you're m making it together or celebrating and you're you're you're actually creating the food, there's something very powerful in that connection. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

I'm curious to see how you would bring community aspects more into Western culture. I mean, seeing as we've disconnected so much from it in our world today, especially in in Western culture, where do you see ways for people in the United States, Canada, et cetera, to start tying this in more?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah, it's it's it's a it's a very good question. It's something to contemplate all the time. And you know, if you can gather great physically. I think you know, using technology can be a tool. I've seen it work with groups where they didn't even have any connectivity other than, hey, we want to do a cleanse or we want to do a habit-forming activity. And literally just connecting strangers together in this community-oriented, I want to better myself kind of uh construct. These people get lasting, powerful connections because there's something when you go through something together, the connectivity, the vulnerability, the openness. When people come with that, then even through technology, it can work. Uh, and that can be something as simple as put these people on a thread. Hey, I did my exercise today, I made my meal today, great, good job. Like it doesn't have to be a long thing. And then maybe every month or every quarter you can actually gather even online or in a physical group, ideally being connected, which is why I love even this, right? Even sitting with podcasts, sitting with an intention. It's almost like podcasting. Why does that even last when short form content is getting faster and faster, faster? Because there's a need for it. We need to actually sit with people and have longer, deeper thoughts and connecting points. So there's a lot of ways that this can actually be beneficial for people. And we can use this and connect from anywhere around the world. I think when you have shared values, um, you don't even have to know that much about someone, but just wanting to, you know, improve, that's really powerful.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

For sure. I think we what I have seen just even in my own community is that we're so hungry for connection. And so if you can be the leader and say, hey, okay, I don't even care if it's two or three people want to go for a hike with me. Let's on Saturdays, let's meet up and do this. And then to see how quickly that community grows and evolves, because we we so desperately need and want this connection and this this community, it's in it's in our genetics. I mean, like we crave to be near others.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yeah, we talked about it before we started filming in the sense that, you know, my birth process and and without connection, we know that children can die. That's how powerful it is. It's like breathing, right? So we we do need that. I think, you know, in my own life, uh I migrated to a bunch of guys that I literally before I came here, we work out together, we share our lives together, like for the last 20 years. So we have this connectivity of, yeah, we're working out together, but we're, you know, before you start working out, you're sharing, hey, what's going on? What are you good good luck today on that meeting and all that stuff? And so it's it's innate within us. And this day and age, we can get siloed quite quite quickly in in our own mental health struggles or whatever. So it's it's really important to um, you know, create even though a family's not working out so well or you're not around family, to to be a leader, to change that, it takes courage because it you have to kind of break your own comfortability sometimes for people and just to friend. Uh just one person can be, and that can be the start.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yeah. We were we are so used to being behind screens, right? We're in now that we're in now we're in an age of AI where it's becoming even more siloed and separate, although I do think that there's plenty of ways for us to um use these technologies and tools to bring people together, right? I mean, that's why Zoom took off over COVID. Like that's a connect, even though it was virtual, we're still connecting with people that way. Um, but I think this is a a kind of a good spot to talk about your work. You you talk a lot about loneliness as a pillar of of the work that you have seen and and uh something that you're trying to break into and break out of, you help people break out of. Can you talk a little bit more about the impact of loneliness as it relates to longevity and health span?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah, it it it's it's uh it's an interesting idea, right? Because loneliness can be, first off, it can be the loneliness of your own self, right? And and and if we're always kind of pushing out, I need to, I'm gonna be better when I get there or when I make that job or when I get that money, that can create a hell of a challenge of your own um not acknowledging who you are in any given moment. So it can be very internal, uh, and it and the world can be reflecting that back to you. So I think getting in touch with who you are and having the courage of listening inside to that quiet space where all your dreams are, where all your inspiration lives, it's not outside, right? So so loneliness I think is a is a call back to literally listening to ourselves. And I think without being a religious thing, there there is a soul, there is a spirit, there is a knowing we have. And if we just take a time out from the busyness, I think curbing loneliness from that perspective is probably the biggest opportunity we have to listening inside of ourselves. We talked a little bit about processes and the times that we need to like, hey, take a break and and become silent and and and and take a journey into areas that we maybe haven't gone before. And I think that also can be done on a day-to-day basis. So so I look at loneliness as simply the the the most powerful mirror, actually, is is is that desire to stop and listen to what your heart is saying, listen to what you want. Um and from there I think your energy changes and and you can also cheat it. You can go like, hey, I'm I'm feeling isolated, and having the courage to go reach out to a friend and go for a walk and stuff like that. So, you know, you see this in big cities, even, you know, as people are around and people are lonelier than ever. So it you know, understanding that we are all craving this and um and that no one's alone in this, right? Loneliness is a really big deal, um, but it can be curbed quite quickly. Um and and uh connection alone, uh meaningful conversations around the dinner table. Yeah, of trusted people that you care about and you love. Oh, you know, that's that's that's the breath that we need more than ever, especially today. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

I love that. I think what's really interesting, I want to just jump in with that if we're gonna do something, then we're gonna have something. And I heard something recently, it was this concept of do, have, and then be, as in when I do this, when I work really hard, I'm going to have all of this money, and then I'm going to be happy. And what we really need to do is kind of flip a script. It is be. Totally do have, right? Move it over and then you can be there. But um, I'm I'm super curious coming back to this self-knowing component, right? And this self-acnowledgement. Um, practically, where do you think somebody, if you know if you're like, I don't even know where to begin, how do you really spend time with yourself and get to know yourself and have this self-love and appreciation?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, I think uh it can feel like a big chasm between that. Like, where do you start? So, you know, uh it doesn't have to be complicated. I mean, uh a nice little breathing routine just to calm the nervous system and chatter, you know, the chatter of the mind. You can take five breaths in, hold, five breaths out, hold five breaths, and just do that for a few minutes. And then just also just grab a journal without even just you don't even have to just let not even thinking. Who am I? Where do I want to go? Who do I want to? Be? How do I feel right now? Just just and just not even think, just a stream of stream of consciousness writing. This is a nice way to just like stop the incessant mind. And it's shifting from the mind concepts of the ego and the and the I need to attain this in order to be that. And it's really, you're just trying to curb a pain somewhere, or loneliness, or a a distraction. So beingness, again, back to what you're saying, sitting with that stuff. And it may feel weird, it may feel what is what is this scary? Uh you know, I mean asking questions. Like literally is one of the most powerful things without needing answer.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

You know, with like like who am I? Like, how how is my life going? Yeah. Uh what would I like to create? Who would I like to be today? Like, and and then you have so much power there. Like, what would it take for me to have the most extraordinary day today?

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Starting small, bite-sized.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

And lead from here.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

And this this isn't esoteric either. This is very pragmatic. Right. Because you set the tone for the day instead of the world telling us to be proactive or uh react to, oh my god, this is happening and that's happening, oh my god, uh-uh. And all of a sudden, our attention is taken over somewhere rather than this is a proactive way to go like we need that time to figure out who the hell are we having this experience, this human kind of crazy experience, right? So, so from that, that space starts to open up. And from my perspective, the craving deepens. Like for me, now 30 years without a day going by where I don't do some practice like that. Right. Non-negotiable. No matter where I am, no matter what I'm doing, I'm up two hours before I need to be anywhere. So I can self-nurture, and then I can be. I'm not someone that I can wake up and then five minutes later I'm like that's be having a meaningful conversation. Yeah, it's just not it's just not something I I that's gonna work for me.

SPEAKER_04 24:29

So but it's a practice too, right? So this is like you're doing two hours every morning. I mean, I I think the this concept of self-knowing and self-love and just getting to to know ourselves, it's something that takes time to get there. It is a practice. Just like going to the gym, you're not gonna do a two-hour workout on your first day in. You you gotta you get you can you have to be patient with yourself and know that it will take time to learn who you are and what you need. And just giving yourself that space is is part of the ballot battle.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Five minutes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

It can be very hard to be embodied. I talk about this a lot in my pre in my work, just to you know, but I love the idea of of morning pages as a way. Well, have have you read the book, The Artist Way? Sure. I feel like that's everyone knows the artist's way. It's an incredible book. If you don't know it, grab it now. Okay, I don't know it just for the record of it. Timeless. So yeah. I I would love to give this to you. I'm gonna give it to you the artist way. But one of the things you mentioned is like just just you know, stream of consciousness first thing in the morning, just start scribbling. Whatever comes to your brain. Don't even think about it, don't even read it, just write, write, write, write, get all the cobwebs out and just see what comes out. Because I think I think it can be it can be frightening for people to feel the things that come up. But if you have a space and a container to just even if you're not ready to like look at it again, you don't have to, just write it out and then let it go. Just like it's the practice of of of recycling, kind of making space, renewing, it's you know totally it's powerful.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I can't even read what I write, I can't. It's so not legible. And I'm it's uh I don't I never go back, but I but I but I just because I'm usually in the dark, actually, like 4 30, 5. So I just don't even it does, it doesn't even matter. And however, after some time, all of a sudden some information will pop in about a project, or I'm like, oh, that's a good idea. And then I'll make a little note, revisit it later, yeah, and make a little note, and some of my best connecting points. Sometimes I just go, hey, I want to focus on a project. Like, why am I doing it? What's what do I want to actually create here? What's the biggest outcome I'd like to see? Like, can can I work backwards from there? Why do I want like really get into why you're doing anything instead of again going back to the the world is telling me I need to accomplish this, I need to go to school for that. I mean, like, okay, but is that you?

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Yeah, why what are what are the intentions behind the what you're wanting to achieve for sure?

SPEAKER_00 27:09

By the way, just a side note, none of the stuff that I have ever done came conventionally. Like superfood hunting, that was just a constant, like I was just innocently showing up in the middle of nowhere in the Amazon because I cared about a uh where this came from. And next thing I know, an article was written about called me a superfood hunter. I'm like, okay, that's easy to say, and it kind of stuck. Down to earth, never came that way. I wrote on a freaking piece of during my journaling. I was thinking of like, cause because moving into the the sharing something at a broader scale was starting to pull at me a bit. It's much bigger story, but so I was like, well, what do I what would I really like to kind of put in the world? And it was more than superfood hunting, even though in season one we had a little bit of that, brought Zach into the Amazon, and we had Camus Camus and Dragon's Blood and Unidigato and Rin the Jungle and all that stuff. But the rest of the show, longevity, uh Blue Zones, Dr. Longo, like that was also part of it. And then we did a water episode. That was all came through my journaling. So I had written this down. Zach had reached out to me from just wanting to connect from the Rich Roll podcast he heard me on, never pitching him on a show. It was just a friendship that developed. Later in a conversation, Zach said, Hey, what else are you doing? I have this idea for a show. Again, not pitching him. Like he was doing movies. I wasn't thinking about any of it. And he just latched onto it, going, Wait, we could travel, we could do all. And so then he adopted the joy of wanting to do it, walked me into Netflix. Netflix didn't even know I existed until we gave them the show.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

So the whole thing, and I'm saying this like to find yourself, but also find your inspiration. So I never was told, okay, do this. Uh, I have to do, I have to be on TV. I'm like, no, that was never the that was an expression of what I wanted to put in the world. So I all that to say for people listening, that came by me listening to myself. And then the courage to kind of keep stepping into that energy, and then just so happens that, you know, Zach and da-da-da, next thing you know, we're we're creating a TV show. Right? So all of this stuff, most of it, was never conventionally planned.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

It was intended.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Yeah. And I I think part of it is that you got through this is we could go down this rabbit hole forever, but you know, it's putting your getting the cobwebs out, putting your ego aside, just truly tapping into what makes you happy. I think that's a you know, we're we have so many distractions, we have so many um expectations put on us by the external world that we have to just it's it's an onion. You've got to start peeling back. What's at the what's at the root of what lights me on fire? Because honestly, we all have this kindling inside of us that wants to be lit on fire, and it and it cannot be it cannot be disrupted with ego or expectation or traditional standards. It has to be truly authentic to you. And I think that something as simple as journaling, message here. Something as simple as journaling could be a way for you to tap into what that means, what that feels like.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Yeah, the power of the voice is very, very strong. And even writing can be one of those opportunities to let that voice out. So I mean, it's that's powerful. I do want to touch back because my my interest was very piqued when you said so many things. I mean, we look at the Okinawans, for example, that was generally recognized to be one of the leading blue zones, and now their their longevity and their health spend is dramatically decreasing as we start to see all of these, you know, chain fast food restaurants popping up in the area, you know, and and it's it's quite sad. But I think this kind of ties back to a core idea that you talk about in um fatal conveniences, about how the modern world, I mean, it has so many wonderful things that we've gotten gifted, but some of this is starting to kind of play against us. So can you share a little bit more about that and how that plays into our world today?

SPEAKER_00 31:43

That's a big one. Yeah. Um, fatal conveniences, the origin of that came in the 90s when I was in college. I was studying physiology, and I got a call from my dad. It was like 91. And he said, uh, hey, I'm having a hard time. This was a high functioning guy, double master's degree, tenured professor at the University of Minnesota. And he goes, I can't think anymore. I'm foggy, I can't be around. And what we've discovered with my doctors is I'm being exposed to all kinds of things that I can't, I can no longer handle. Perfumes, colognes, paints, off-gassing of clothing, all of it. And here I am, my father, my first male teacher of my life, was crumbling in front of me. So, which kind of led me down this rabbit hole of even to be around him, I had to start detoxing what I was wearing, what I was showering in. And I was like, and that was in the 90s. And um, and now I've just seen it growing and growing and growing in this gnarly kind of thing. So yeah, things it things have a way of shiny on the outside, but then there's a rub, right? Um, from on-demand water, we have plumbing, it's incredible. Like I've been to many areas where they don't have that. They're of a jerry can and they're like you know, get yeah, and they're getting dirty water and they don't even have ways to filter it. Um, but we can turn it on, it looks clean. But our modern world actually, our municipalities haven't even caught up to uh all of the toxins. So half of our US population still getting infected with PFOS. PFOS is that Teflon original nonstick pan, but now it's in our clothing, it's in our makeup, it's in our lipstick, it's like toilet paper, it's in our like all over the place. And it was created in the 50s. Super good, heat resistant, stain resistant, all of these things, but the compound itself accumulates in the earth, accumulates in the water, accumulates in the land, and accumulates in us. So on the one hand, our Western model is like this is good, plastic, clothing that has plastic, formaldehyde, all this stuff. It's fine, out of sight, out of mind. So it's not visual, it's we don't see it, but these things added up over time are really causing issues. So it's not an easy thing to talk about. But when you have 60 to 90,000 toxins being emitted in our world, a few percent of those are tested alone, none of them are tested as they interact. On average, a woman uses and puts on about 120 chemicals every day and reapplies. So the bioaccumulation, we're in a very bad experiment. You know, many of these things are carcinogenic and and endocrine disrupting, and you know, male's fertility is falling off a cliff, w women's endometriosis and their own fertility is so you don't have one smoking gun. You have potentially thousands. So this became, you know, my father ended up passing away from kind of it made him isolated in life because he couldn't be around people because everyone had stuff on. So then he had to force retirement, uh, kind of seclude himself, got him like depressed. He started picking up who was an alcoholic at at one point, 30 years sober, started drinking again. So it led me down this, God, this is only getting worse. And it just inadvertently took my father. So I needed to write a book about it. And it's just, you know, not to be a downer about it. It's like life, right? We're talking about mentally emotional things that show up in our lives. In order for us to change these things, we have to become aware, not let it paralyze us, and then just take a next positive action.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

I appreciate the conversation that you talk about in Fetal Conveniences because I work a lot with patients with autoimmune conditions that you know, and it and it isn't it is a thousand tiny things. I think that's the thing that feels a little overwhelming. It's not just one huge thing, it's a thousand tiny things and they're micro and they're nano, and they seem like a and they seem like a you know, a an easy, convenient choice that's in that moment, but you build we in functional medicine we call that your toxic load. What how much you know, and and and everyone's toxic load is different. What I can handle, what I can handle is not necessarily what she could handle, or vice versa. Maybe mine's higher than yours. So um just this the advent of or the not the advent, but the the rise in autoimmune conditions and um hormonal issues and infertility issues, it's all it all plays a role. Um so I I I really appreciate the work that you're that you know, because I there's another element of this is when we talk about the concept of body literacy and understanding what your body is telling you, you have to also understand where to seek for the answers, right? I mean you knowing that this is an area like your end your uh environmental toxin load should be a somewhere where you also seek to get data, right? It's not just you know, you should look for these things, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Um just to add to your point, the rub is our reductionist mind wants to go to a thing and go, well, if I just do that thing. But to your point, it's uh thousands of things that are if we're unaware that are affecting us and the choices that we're making. And so so it becomes it goes back to like it's unsexy to go like, hey, real progress is gonna come by you taking this step and this step, and being consistent and having good community around you, uplifting you, and keep kind of going because no one that you see who's had success, it just didn't pop out of the sky.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Right? It's it's it's it's hard work, no matter who it is.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

We and we are so averse to being uncomfortable we just talked about this. We're so averse to being uncomfortable and the importance of discomfort being a sign, a signal, a a modality for change. Um, but I remembered my I remember my question for you. Um one of the thousands of reasons why we love you, Darren, is that you are a plant forward eater. And I think this goes into this conversation about would you say that that's why you've become a plant forward eater and because of the the essence of wanting to minimize the exposure to these other elements and things like that. Can you talk a little bit about why this has been such an important part of your life?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, I think it I think it became one. I think I wasn't feeling good. You know, I was eat I was athlete and eating a bunch of meat and everything else and doing all the kinds of things, and I just didn't feel good at a certain point, and then and then I started digging into old physiology stuff and protein cycling and autophagy and the body being careful at letting go amino acids, and I was like, wow, no one's talking about that. And I'm like, do we need that much protein? And so I started questioning myself, and then I kind of like my study of one, I said, okay, I'm gonna stop eating all of this stuff, and then I'm gonna increase my workouts even more just to see what the hell happens, see if the wheels come off. And I was just feeling better and better and better and better. Um, and I still love it to this day when people say, Oh, you well, but you you know, you're still in shape and healthy. I've never seen a healthy. I'm like, it doesn't make any sense to me. So so for me, later when I started making that choice, I was like, well, meat is a bioaccumulator of amino acids and minerals from the origin, plants. Yeah, they all came from there at some point. Uh so I was like, and then as a superfood hunter, I was like, well, eliminate the middleman. Just go to the best food ever, the whole food form. I can always find that nutrient, that ingredient from some great food. And I just never look back. And so I just came from the and then integrating that into my morals, my ethics, not I I don't I wanted to be a vet as a little kid. I don't, I don't want to kill anything. Um, and so it just aligned later that it just and uh you know, and number one, I don't crave any of it, and I always laugh when people say, I just want to live. And I'm like, okay, but you're you can make the argument that you've just you've created your environment, yeah, and now your environment is actually causing you cravings. So is that you, right? Is your gut microbiome now going, well, you've been given this to me, so now I just want more of it because you've created that ecosystem to take what that is and want more of it. So I'm like, okay, you know, it's like there's a lot of different ways. So when you change, you allow yourself the time to change, i.e. the FMD and all of that stuff, when you give yourself a pause, you start kind of all full circle, you start taking a pause from all this automated eating of I need to do it because this influencer, I need to get this much protein from this source and all this mostly bullshit. And you just take a pause and you start listening, going, what do I really need? What do I really want? What is what am I actually craving? And you start kind of getting answers from a different place. And so, and that's a forever journey. It's a forever journey of listening uh to those deep, deep, deep cravings. And I just, you know, I love it. I mean, back in the day, I used to grab the biggest dude in the gym and say, we're gonna work out right now. I don't know, beat your ass. Like, and I like only on herbs. I'm only uh yeah, and then and then go back to but I just want to live. I'm like, you have no idea the most amazing food I have eaten in the most amazing places that will literally blow your mind, way beyond some meat that's you know dying or dead and putrefying, right? Like alive living food. Um and then of course, you know, when you realize, oh, longevity and all this stuff, you actually don't need that much protein. And uh, you know, for the people in the back. You don't need that much protein. There's there's a lot of evidence, and if you don't want to look, that's that's on you. But um I've lived this way for 20 years. Uh uh, and you know, no, no, no, no rib to my buddies that I work out with every day, but I'm the strongest one by a good factor, and every one of them will tell the tell tell you that. So uh, you know, that's that's the you know that and again, I I just don't want to be the hands of of you know wrong information. And um I if I don't need to kill something to thrive, I ain't gonna do it. Yeah, why would I? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

I think it's it's really cool the the way that you you approach it because that it is so many different layers as to why you would do this. And I mean, certainly I I laughed when you said, I just want to live as like kind of that mantra that you hear a lot of the time. And it's like, do you really? Because the research shows that if you really want to live long and healthfully, I mean, plant based nutrition is that way to do it. So, like, you just want to live right this exact second in doing the exact thing that you think you want. Exactly. Um as opposed to really living for as long and healthfully as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

And we also lose the acute celebration too. It's like, yeah, longevity for sure. But the health span right now, my moment, when I'm driving here and I'm eating fruit along the way, and like I'm I'm living because I'm in in the flow of my actions immediately affecting how I am right now. So it's not like it's distant, it's now. And adding that up over time, when all of the research points to that, it's like feels pretty good. You know? Yeah. To line your life up with what really matters rather than listening to nonsense.

SPEAKER_04 44:45

Well, and and so kind of how I mentioned that you you have a few different verticals as to why plant-based nutrition has suited you. One of the big things that you talk about a lot is sustainability and how we can integrate sustainability in our lives. Certainly, plant-based eating is one of those ways. What are other ways that you think we're really missing the mark? I mean, realistically, I think we're missing the mark in a lot of ways in the world with the sense of sustainability. But what really stands out to you?

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Well, I think people underestimate how much they can do. I mean, if not everyone has land, but you have a windowsill, you can grow stuff. You can grow sprouts on your counter for in five days and have rich sulfurophane cancer fighting. Even now there's some research that opens up detox pathways and potentially gets out some microplastics and all kinds of stuff. So you have one of the strongest research-based sulfurifane and broccoli sprouts, and you you spent 20 cents, and in five days you have a full container, and all you're doing is keep it on. You rinse it, you rinse it twice a day, and now you have a salad that's literally one of the highest antioxidant foods you can you can have. So we we underestimate, we have to have a little effort, you know. And if we don't put a little effort in towards our health, then we are again sitting in the effect of it. And so local, find those farmers, find those, make it a ritual, make it a family thing, go go and and celebrate. And hell, if you have kids, use it as this incredible moment of learning. Like, let's go to that farm. Maybe not every weekend, but they're coming. The farmers are, let's go, can we go? I haven't met a farmer that doesn't, who's not chemically uh controlled, right, by agrochemicals. They they wanna they want to show what they're doing, they want to share it, they they they love what they're doing. I don't care where they are at in the world, you know, they're vulnerably putting seeds in the ground to be able to share it and grow it. They want to share it. And so uh, you know, these things are great, you know, take some effort to drop the walls. Yeah. Where is your food coming from? Which then goes into fatal conveniences. Like you expect people to have the tests and the heavy metals and the glyphosate, and you you would expect that, of course. Yeah, but it's not true. Yeah, it's the wild west, no one's doing the testing, yeah, no one's doing the real work. And for companies, yeah, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of money. Like I've I you know, the quality control teams, uh, when I worked with Beach Body or Now Body, like we would I'd be like, I know it's hard, but but what I did with you is is is job security, right? So now you get to do the tests and we get to validate and all of that stuff. So it's important for companies to truly be transparent and do all these things. So I guess that the the there's so much power in the individual, and then that power of especially the moms, because they're the moms are the most open, they're gathering most of the information, guys are you know, guys, you know, they're less open in some respects. So the mom's controlling the house. Uh when I wrote my book, uh Fatal Conveniences, I had this point where I'm like, oh, it's it's waking the moms. So so it's a very powerful thing. But but we, again, by us making choices, demanding more from where our money's going and the companies and the food we're buying, uh, we can do a lot. But just don't put a blind eye thinking that people are doing it right, because you'll be disappointed.

SPEAKER_04 48:44

Well, I love that you two brought in like this aspect of going to the farm and even if it's the farmer's market, like all of these things aren't work if you really think about it. Those are fun things that you can do. And then the the beauty of selecting the foods that are available to you. Now you get to get creative. Like instead of being like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna get these specific things to make this specific, now you get the fun of the creativity of making whatever the heck is available to you. And I think it's uh also about like shifting the narrative of like, oh, I have to do this. Do I get to do this? I get to have all of this incredible, amazing, fresh local food, and get to have fun playing with my kids in making it and going to have these experiences. And fun is on that note, something that is so important to our longevity. Laughing and enjoying is is speaking of community, one of those things that we are absolutely missing out on in this bigger longevity picture. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Oh my god, that's so true.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

We always I always talk about well, first of all, I I want to just quickly before I forget, I think there is a an unfortunate uh branding around things like farmers market and organic food purchasing that I that needs to be squashed because when you go to farmers' markets, when you go to farms, you are innately buying things in season. Right. When you buy foods in season, they are cheaper because they don't have to travel to and fro across the country to get to you. They're more antioxidant rich there because they are growing at the time in the seasons. They they're meant to, they're not being pumped full of chemicals to grow in off-season. So you're getting a plethora of people think like, oh, I can't afford to. Well, you can if you do it in season. If you can, and you can when you do it the right way. So I just wanted to call that out.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

But well, and also you value, like especially when you see something grow and you're like, oh my god, and you know the farmer and you know the ground and like the value of that food. I mean, I tell you what, when watermelon season hits, I'm obsessed. Like, there's times I'll just eat, I'll just sit and eat a massive watermelon, and I can't stop. Yeah, like it's just the best.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Yeah, your body's craving it.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah, it's just the best.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

I I do think, and I want to go back to your point because we also do love to talk about the the quest for joy, the quest for happiness, and how I think one of the most radical things we can do for ourselves in our longevity is to make time to be silly and fun and joyful. Oh my god. Is there anything about um and you know, just being your childlike self and really planning those things, putting it in your calendar to do it? But is there anything related to a roadmap to happen the roadmap to happiness, this new series, that you can tell us that's in that vein? That because I'm assuming that joy and playfulness and giggling and laughter is all part of that.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Well, if anyone's seen down to earth and seen me mucking around, right? See me joking and jumping around and all of that, all of that is giving myself the license to just be radically me. And and I'm definitely that in the next season of Roadmap to Happiness. And uh so selfishly doing the show is just a license for me just to let it rip. I mean, I do I got some impersonations that comes out and it's so it's so funny. It's just it's just the best. And and I I really to your point we really need to give ourselves the permission to be ourselves, going all the way back to what we were saying, and God, we're taking everything so seriously. There are times when you need to take something seriously, but the injection of joy and happy I mean, listen, we regardless of what's going on in the world, it's a miracle that we're here. The sun is up, we're having meaningful conversations, I mean, we need to play. And uh if you get me around a kid too, like I am I'm probably more of a kid than them. But it's it's it's also wasn't it and I I think I'll just leave people with something like this, and like I had to learn that. I didn't have to learn that as a kid, but I had to unlearn the adult, right? And the invitation when you have fun is a lot more powerful than some algorithm, right? The invitation of like, what is this life like, what's it for? What what can we do? What can we create? What can we how can we play uh is appropriate. And so yeah, the the the our new series, uh Roadmap to Happiness, um uh Road to Happy.net, by the way, you can see the journey. We haven't released it, we just teased out a little trailer. Um that is that that are so there, there's so many different elements of of joy, happiness, contentment. Because it's not about it's not about being happy all the time. It's about having we're we're really exploring context of what are the essential pillars of contentedness and and how can you create that in your communities. Um, and then of course you have subjective happiness. You know, your happiness is different than my happiness on a maybe a day-to-day level. Like you're gonna look at your child when he's doing one thing or another thing or learning your level of happiness, it's gonna be that. And mine is when I'm eating that watermelon as I'm um driving, you know, in here, whatever that is. So, you know, it's it's subjective happiness, but there's also there's also a very strong containers and pillars of happiness that we're deeply exploring. And and and without joy and happiness, you might as well just be a robot. You know, it it is it is the invitation for us all. I think when someone comes, if someone comes into this room right now, it's joyful. We all feel it. It opens us up, gives us the opportunity to laugh and smile and connect. But if someone comes in here stern, shut down, angry, what does that do to all of us instantaneously?

SPEAKER_03 55:34

It's energy. It's energy.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

So, what can we do? So, again, we also we can all do that right now. Everyone listening right now can be a beacon of happiness, literally in your next decision. You can literally go instead of holding on to pain and trauma and all of that stuff, even though deal with your pain and trauma, but you can actually show show up and be a gift for people, an act of kindness. Uh tell just so say to look, you look beautiful today. You look beautiful today. Be open, yeah. And just and that you we have no idea the butterfly effect that that has on.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

Oh my gosh, it's a it's a complete ripple.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

When you when you it's it's an invitation when you are that way, you are an invitation to somebody else to be unabashedly themselves too, right? We it's it's invaluable that type of energy. And what does Tabitha Brown says? What's her phrase that um if you can't go about having yourself a good day, don't you dare go screwing up anyone else's. I think that's I think that's her her talk like we love you, Tabitha Brown. Um but yeah, no, true.

SPEAKER_04 56:44

It's it's beautiful, and it but it does bring me back to what we were chatting about before we started today, which is um it reminds me of a line that is uh joy is the mother of all emotions, but she will not come knocking on your door until you have welcomed all of her children. And that to me is something that, at least for me, has really, really resonated because I think in this world where we're all, we all want joy, right? Like we want it. We know that it's something that we're striving for. But why does it feel so unattainable? And at least for me, it was because we are feeling so, we feel like we have to be so stable and numb to everything. You have to feel all of the emotions. You have to let your body, you know, take on the good, the bad, the sad, the angry, and then the joy can also come in that and in through that roller coaster, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Absolutely. J just acknowledging pain, shame, anger, fear, just acknowledging it.

unknown 57:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Releases, or telling someone about it. Hey, you don't they don't have to be a counselor, they can just hold space. You don't have to, but releasing some of this idea of perfectionism or trying to keep it together, or I'm an adult, so I can't do that, or all the whatever the story is, it's ridiculous. Like again, reinvestigate who do you want to be in the world? Do you want to be happiness and joy? Then start going back to your other be that. What would it take for you to be that today?

SPEAKER_03 58:14

And some of it, I I feel like some of it starts with just being grateful for what is in your life. If you if you're struggling to get there, yeah, well, let's find gratitude in what I currently have. How can I tap in, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:26

And you have to give up the the the desire to hold on to stuff. Sure. You have to give up story, you have to give up these ideas, and and sometimes our egos just want to be right. It's like, okay, well, how's that working for you?

SPEAKER_03 58:41

Or we or we identify so much about a particular facet of our personality. We like, well, this is who I am. And you're well, wait, what if you're not? What if you're not? What if you're something else? What if or what if you won aren't giving yourself the license to be something else?

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Yeah, what if you're a whole lot more than that? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:58

Jumping off of this idea of joy, I mean, we all want to be there, right? Um, but then we also are just chatting a lot about some of the things in our life that just feel like they're so overwhelming and there's so much to change. And I mean, the world today is, you know, it's it's a challenge, right? I mean, it feels a little doomsday-ish. How do you stay positive and how do you stay looking forward to what's ahead given the world today?

SPEAKER_00 59:26

I I think um it's a choice. I give myself boundaries around the nonsense, most of it's nonsense, right? Even if I see something on social media or whatever, I go, maybe. Don't say it as fact. I don't know that. I have no idea. The things I know are my experiences. Period. End of story. I give myself boundaries around all of that. Because if I let it suck me, now it sucked me, and I've I'm now I'm no good to anyone else. The other side is the more chaos I see, the more I want to do my TV show, create a super life, get people healthy, healthier people, make better decisions, um build a better community, build a bigger community, build a stronger community. I I am like the opposite guy. Like, you know, it's like, okay, I see all this. That's more reason for us to build something the opposite.

unknown 1:00:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

That is not what I want my life to be. And it and and it's okay, what can I do? And the other thing is cultivating my life, I have some incredible people that have magnetic been a magnet to me in my life, that are inspiring me every day. Yeah, solving massive solutions. For example, there's a great company, Troy Swope, created it called Terum Labs. No one knows about them. They create an alternative to what I said before, this pre or pro floral alkali substance, this Teflon stuff that's gnarly. Guess what? He created a benign algae-based PFOS performing at the same levels, cheaper than the toxic stuff, and it is already being used in the marketplace.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:27

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Right? Yeah, he inspires me. Another good friend of mine developing clean energy technologies all over the world. He just texted me from New Zealand. New Zealand's doing some incredible stuff. He inspires me every day. Yeah. He actually then put me in touch. He started to consult Bhutan full circle, me back again. Bhutan wants to create more of a community, again, be a proactive generator in their community based on what's going on in the world. Again, they inspire me. Like, so so it's it's no longer just me because it's been a cultivation of what I care about. Incredible doctors that are literally the FDA reaches out to them going, what do we do? So now she's in a position with a very incredible doctor friend of mine. She's in the position of like doors are opening that they haven't opened as well. Behind the scenes, there's a bunch of incredible stuff, right? Uh and again, if I take all of the information from what the world is sharing with me, that is not a great world. But when I am being informed with other people that I'm around that are doing some badass stuff, now that just fuels me more and more and more. And how can we build that world? How can we create that world? How can we create more of a possibility? The actors showing up that are part of our project, some of them I didn't expect. Like Alec Baldwin, open book, like been through some hell and back, but he's a legend and he opened up his heart. Elijah Wood, beacon of light, Shailen Woodley, the most grounded, beautiful, caring person. Uh, Jason Momoa. Like him and I were working on a whole nother project. He was too busy, and he's like, he cares in and around every cell about the environment and the planet and all of that stuff. So again, we underestimate. I'm not special. I'm just keep saying yes to a part of myself that I want to create and what I want to do. And then other people who are also as strong and powerful want to continue to do it. That's how we create. And that's again, go back to community. Hey, you can start with you want to get in better shape? You want to do a fast? Okay, let's start there. And then all of a sudden you have a friendship, you have a you have a place that you build upon, and then another person comes in. Another, what are you doing? Oh wow, you just did that for five days. You're like, that's how it happens. Yeah, it's so it's like my career has been out of the box following this thing, and and it's a snowball. And then how can I better support that snowball? How can I better support? I've been in some crazy things. I just got contacted uh by a friend of mine 25 years ago in in a room in Santa Cruz with some of the most brilliant, by the way, one of the top Qigong uh uh uh top uh gong masters on the planet was one of the guys there, but then the guy who developed remote viewing for the military in the in the 50s was there. Dr. Patrick Flanagan, who developed all this uh dolphin technology, two-way communication, dolphin technology where we could communicate to crazy and Dr. Mosin Hermanish, who's one of the most brilliant uh PhDs, uh teaching me about all kinds of mathematics of food and all like it's bananas, what's available to us when we open ourselves to a new possibility. It doesn't mean that that our stuff doesn't come up. It's supposed to come up because that's what kept us there. So, like when you do a fast, it's not so comfortable, but the opportunity is when those things bubble up, you're in a community, you go, oh God, I didn't see that coming, and oh my caffeine and uh I got a headache, and like whatever the it doesn't necessarily need to happen either, but sometimes things come up for different people. So the all of that is opportunity to reveal, to let go, to to go to a new place, to see something about yourself, to let go of something. So it you know, if you want a life where you just do whatever, that's fine. But if you want a life of I think greatest happiness, Happiness, greatest contentment, greatest joy. It takes a bit of courage to look at your life life and to go what's working, what isn't uh and be willing to change. You know?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

Change is the biggest sign of health, I think, or the ability, the interest, the curiosity to change is invaluable. It's a skill that you have to practice though. And I think taking those times fasting is an example we talk about a lot, but being uncomfortable for just a little bit of time. What do you do with that? What are you gonna what are you gonna do with that information? What are you gonna how are you gonna move forward differently and support yourself? But I we're never we're not meant to do any of this alone, by the way. You keep like your creativity, your paths is the right people are gonna come on your path. And you know, the more authentic you are to your journey, the the greater alignment you're gonna find. So um and some people fall away.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Some people in your life fall away and no judgment. Yeah, you know, and that's okay too. That's a whole nother conversation too, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:01

About realigning the people in your life. If you had a recipe, a daily recipe for longevity, the Darren Olean recipe, what would you what would be in it?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

Well, there's certainly pra pragmatic things uh that I'll get into. Uh the the one thing is say yes to your heart, uh to who you are, and let that rip. We need that in the world more than ever. That's the internal stuff. And then just forgive yourself and forgive other people uh like immediately. Like let that healing happen. Um and then from a pragmatic standpoint, you gotta sleep. Just prepare yourself to sleep. Um shut off lights. I literally don't turn on lights when the sun goes down, I turn no lights on. Uh and or uh you know, mask, shut everything off, turn off your Wi-Fi at night, let that stress not be a part of it. Drink clean, good water, eat fresh food as much as possible. Um, move your body. Uh it doesn't have to be complicated, just move it in gravity. You know, it can be body, it can be walking, it can be uh whatever. Uh work on community. Uh push yourself to be inspired by the people that are around you. Um be generous. Like seriously, that is a super power. Be so kind. Uh and um uh and and and cultivate hope and then live from that. Be a leader in your life. Uh and and and find your purpose. Uh, and and and you're unstoppable. If you start to do some of these things, you're unstoppable and it doesn't matter what's going on in the world, because you become the leader uh of of the life that you want to create. And and that is the steps to to make the your your immediate life happier, as well as the the the paving of a long, strong life. Um so that's my off the top of the head.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:20

We need nothing else. Yeah. And thank you also for sharing things that are not, you know, like it's nice to hear things outside of that quote unquote norm of like healthy eating and all these things. And yes, those are so critically important. Of course, as dietitians, we are gonna hammer that one until the day we die. But but also this self-knowing and this this uh gratitude and and giving, I mean, those are things that we don't talk about enough. So I'm so grateful that you shared that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

It seems as though when you start you know increasing your self-esteem and who you are, then the value of what you're putting in your mouth is more important, the value of your relationships, right? You know, so so you're build you're building a proper foundation as opposed to I've got pain, I've got trauma, I haven't looked at that, but let me try to get a washboard at washboard abs and try to live to 120. It's just not gonna stick. And then it becomes we can white knuckle anything, you know, but then if you're white knuckling, now what you wanted to overcome with the things that you're avoiding, you're also not gonna get there. So I I I really believe in that self-care. And then natural boundaries come up and who you hang around with and all of that stuff, and now like life-giving foods that make sense. I feel more alive, I want to contribute more to life. Like, okay, let's let's do that. Not listening to anyone else, not putting anyone else in between me and my creator and who I am and my soul. Like those things I think are we should be taking them out of you know, heavy religion and all of this stuff. We like, listen, just learn to freaking love yourself. And it is a practice because that's part of the deal. Yeah, you know, we've got a body, we think it's us, it's not us, but we're we're we we have to interact with it. We need it there. We I still want to not be in pain. I don't want to suffer, so I've got to take care of this thing that I have. And and when you decide you want to express more out of your life, you want a healthier vehicle to help you there, you know. So it it's a it's a shift of of priorities, really. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:48

I love this concept of like white knuckling through the world versus just being like lax-handed and just kind of letting it go. And it's it's this concept of like we think that all this negative reinforcement is gonna get us somewhere, like being angry at ourselves or being, you know, perfectionists, like uh that we think that these things are going to propel us forward, but it's actually a negative motivator. Like maybe it's gonna help you a little bit, but if you just kind of let go and you support with positive reinforcement, I mean the world is your oyster.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

Totally. Yeah, we have a hard time receiving, receiving who we really are and receiving love from other people. And give someone a compliment. Give them, I really love you, and you're amazing. See how quickly they divert. No, you're amazing, you don't receive it at all.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

So, like that's the receive, that's the mother of of our existence. Yeah, the mother of our existence is go, what if I'm enough? Period, end of story right here, right now, with no more doing. And what if I build the presence of that truth? And then if that presence of that truth builds, what then will then come to me without efforting? Not to say that you don't have action, you take action. I take that glass of water, I drink that. But the the the efforting so much to try to prove to ourselves that we deserve something, we deserve life. And so build that presence and then see what shows up.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

That's the it quite literally is like embodying the mother archetype in terms of you know, love does not need to be deserved, it just exists, and it's the most powerful the most powerful magnet that is possible. It's the greatest form of magnetism that we can we can cultivate. So giving it to yourself is I think that's why it can be so scary for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

It's the only key. Because again, we all weren't loved the way we really wanted. But some someone messes up along the way. So it's that opportunity to love ourselves. Yeah, it's the next opportunity to love ourselves, it's the next opportunity. Forgive love. Forgive, love. They were doing the best they can, even some people that live comes from horrible situations. Forgive, love.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:12

Yeah, don't calcify. It doesn't have to be so complicated. Forgive and love.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

It's practice.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:18

But you have to keep doing it. It's a muscle. That's a muscle. That is a muscle for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:23

Love muscle.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:24

Love muscle. Get it strong, go to the gym. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:29

Well, I just want to say thank you for being that inspiration. I mean, you clearly have these incredible people in your life that inspire you, but we're very grateful to have you here. And I'm sure all of our listeners are thinking the same thing of just being inspired and wanting to take any step, any small step in the right direction to hopefully continue that ripple effect in in making the change that you you clearly want to see in the world, but I think that many of us do as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:57

Thanks for being here. Is there before we let you go, is there anything um in terms of where people can find you? What kind of I mean, we're already working on the happiness project. Did I say that right? The road we're already working on the roadmap to happiness project. Any other places that you want to guide people to, let them know where they can.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

Yeah, I mean I mean superlife.com, Darrenaline.com all goes to the same place. Social media. Um I have a a Patreon where I'm kind of off of social media and I can kind of open up a little more. It's just a little nicer. I just gotta like, meh, it's not a safe place to to not that I'm like creating controversy necessarily, but it's just when people want to do something, it's a lot different than people just you know, you know, uh creating weirdness on social media. So um, you know, it's kind of a tool, but I leave it as that. And uh so yeah, I and and then follow roadmap to happiness.net and we're creating more community there. We're creating more surprises. Uh we've got about another few months of filming. Probably the series will probably come out meaningfully in like six months or so. Awesome. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:10

We can be watching. Yeah. We can't wait. Thanks for being on with us. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:15

What a fun episode. Darren is just a really cool person to get to talk to. I feel lucky that we get to sit there and just pick his brain and he's a ray of sunshine. Yeah. Truly a ray of sunshine. And and I really loved exploring, you know, his his travel, like the way that he has seen so much in so many places that most of us haven't seen, and the the information that he's pulled from those very unique experiences.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:41

Yeah. For me, I think my favorite part was just there's so much about our health and wellness that is communal and that is shared. And I think that there's something that we I feel like people think that that's a woo-woo topic or it's not worth talking about because it's, you know, so nuanced, but it's not. It it really isn't. And it's that's that's the part of one of my longevity wives, is I actually really truly um find such joy and pleasure in sharing and and in community and the healing potential of being in with family friends, community groups. Um so I I really liked hearing his point of view on that too. So that's awesome. Let's we're thank you, Darren, for joining our show. And we're gonna jump into our mailbag, which is one of our favorite parts of our episodes. Um I'll start. I'll start. Okay. Um question: two cups of black coffee a day. Am I helping or hurting my longevity? Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:41

Okay. Love this question. Uh two cups of coffee a day. Awesome. Yes. Uh, you are likely helping, although uh the literature on this actually suggests that like the sweet spot is probably three cup one and a half more. I don't know, it's more. It's like three, three, three point five cups of coffee a day. Um this is really good news for me. Yeah. Yeah. And um, it's funny for me because I am very caffeine. Like it's very caffeine sensitive. Um, what's really cool about what we're seeing is that the reason why coffee has been shown to be so beneficial seems to be multiple uh different features of what is in the coffee plant. Uh one being caffeine, yes, caffeine does have some beneficial components, but also the phytonutrients or the antioxidants that are in coffee are also beneficial. And so even a decaffeinated coffee can be almost as beneficial as a caffeine-caffeinated coffee. So I think uh what w uh uh most longevity experts will agree that a few cups of coffee a day are great. Also, you know, not to completely derail the question, but uh green tea also has a lot of incredible benefits. Um and like I don't even like to say which one's better because they're they're different. They're different, but and but they're both like almost equally great. It's like the big question is what are you putting in your cup? And I think exactly we have to caveat because in today's world of Starbucks Frappuccino rainbow unicorn thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:30

Yes, it is oh man, wow. It is basically a walking Halloween basket of just sugar and empty calories. So yes, you it is very not to hate on having a treat every now and again, because that is also nice. But having it daily is you really should be having black coffee with minimal additives whatsoever. And honestly, I when I not to talk about my dairy thing, it's twice twice in this episode, but when I had when I figured out my dairy problem was uh I had I switched to black coffee, which I never in a million years would have thought myself to be a black coffee drinker, and I love it now. Yeah. I would have it no other way other than a cappuccino every now and again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:12

Well, I I will make one final note on this because I think people worry about caffeine intake and coffee intake because there was some buzz around too much coffee being bad for you. And so is there too much? Uh they see that the benefits are typically like uh kind of capped at around like six cups and over six cups a day. A day, yeah. God bless. Right. So that's why I was like there's very seldom people out there that are just like doing too much. Now, that being said, you know, like for me, for example, when I drink too much caffeine, I feel like anxious. I feel yeah, I don't feel good. And so I want to, you know, maybe this is just my own personal thing, but you know, I think it's important that we listen to our bodies. I think that's common.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:57

I think that's common. Feeling anxious and jittery can sometimes be counterhelpful. Yeah, not as helpful as we might have been. Okay. Next question. Great answer. Thank that was a wonderful question. Okay. Moving on to uh I read that a 10-minute walk after meals blunts the blood sugar spite spike. Is that legit, or do I need to be doing more? I love this question.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:21

This is a method. I know it was I'm I'm mixing up our things, but like this is legit.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:26

This is a method. And also something that in my family we call the glucose walk after dinner because I call it the fart walk.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:34

Oh and it's it's actually it's actually a thing that people it's it's uh you know, whatever you want to call it to make it fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:42

Yeah. But it it is so yes, when when glucose, which obviously comes from primarily carbohydrate foods, um it can be utilized in its best if you are having a meal to go take a walk because the motion of your muscles and moving your body helps to uptake glucose better so that you actually do have a lower glucose spike. Post postprandial is what we call it when you the glucose spike after a meal is significantly moderated when you move within about 30 minutes to an hour or so.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:15

Less. Way less, actually. So the studies show that you should try and get in your 10-minute walk within 10 minutes of eating. If get up and go. Yeah, you've got to get up and get up and go. Yeah. Yeah. If you if you wait 30 minutes, and certainly if you wait an hour, it significantly decreases the effectiveness of the 10-minute walk. So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:37

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: That's interesting. Yeah. Because it doesn't nullify the benefits if you wait a little bit either. I mean, movement in general shouldn't be like we all need to be moving more. That's that's also, I think, to be noted.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:51

Yes. Yes and yes, and uh, what we typically see is that the post-preannual or post-meal spike is usually within like 30 to 60 minutes. You want to do your exercise ideally before you hit the peak, because the goal is that you don't get that peak. And so that's why the recommendations and the studies are saying, like they even say, okay, let's let's see what happens if you do this at the 10-minute mark post-eating, or you do it at the 30-minute minute uh 30-minute mark post-eating, and they do see some pretty noticeable differences in the beneficial impact. Um so that's that's worth noting, is the timing does matter. And then the other thing that's worth noting is is 10 minutes enough, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:36

And they And is it slow walking? Is it a is it a brisk walk? All you know, that matters. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:42

Yeah, I I think uh importantly, 10 minutes is enough. Like, yeah, don't eat if you do 30, good amazing, great. Um certainly no no downside to doing more per se, but doing at least 10 minutes is kind of that is a sweet spot.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:57

Sweet spot. Yeah. I would, I would, I will last thing I'll say about this, I also find it to be a good reminder that the more muscle you have on your body, the better you are going to be at utilizing glucose even sitting still. Like it's it, I mean, yes, you do want to walk and move your body, but it is another good plug and play for hitting the weights at the gym. Uh muscle is a longevity or is touted is a longevity organ that we talk about here on the show a lot. Um so yeah, it's important even to build in more weightlifting and training to get a really healthy body composition because you will be ultimately better at uh utilizing glucose naturally.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:38

So I want to actually add one more thing because I just talk about this forever. Um but they also have compared if you do 30 minutes of walking once a day versus 10 minutes of walking after each like whole meal, breakfast, lunch, dinner, and they showed notably better results on your long-term blood sugar when you were doing three 10-minuters instead of one 30-minter.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:06

Cool. It's so nice. But also like that's a conversation about the fact that it's not just about going to a one-hour HIT training and then sitting on your butt all day long. You like in longevity zones, they are moving all the time. Reminder, you guys, thank you for such wonderful questions. We if you want to answer, again, these are just we pick our favorite ones. Um, if you have a question that is burning on your heart that you want us to answer live on these episodes, message us, DM us at Prolon on Instagram, and we will add them into our mailbags in the future. Um, and thank you for tuning in. We we're so grateful that you're here. If you liked this episode, if you this resonated with you, or if you think somebody in your life could benefit, please share, like, comment, review. Subscribe. Subscribe. We are excited to keep this going. And we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:06

Thanks for listening to Almost Forever. If you love the show, hit subscribe on YouTube at Prolon FMD or wherever you're listening and share it with someone you love. New episodes every other Wednesday drop on YouTube or wherever you listen. This is not intended as medical advice, diagnosis, treatment, or a substitute for professional healthcare services. Please talk to a qualified healthcare professional before making changes to your diet, exercise, or supplement routine. Use expressed by our guests are their own.