BLACK FORWARD - Episode 4 - Rachel Morton & Jennifer Lang Demystifying Artificial Intelligence

Recording and post-production by Carlos Casarez / KZFR 90.1 FM, Chico, California. www.kzfr.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hello, hello. I am Rachel Morton. Welcome to Black Ford, a multi-part series about resilience leadership and building stronger futures. Produced by KZFR 90.1 FM and the Black Resiliency Project. On this week's episode, we'll be discussing artificial intelligence, innovation, equity, and how emerging technology can be used to create opportunities in underserved communities. I will be speaking with Jennifer Lang about the promise, challenges, and future of AI and what it means to move Black forward. Jennifer, welcome. Hello, Rachel. We're so happy to have you on the show today. If you don't mind just introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about what you do with the Black Resiliency Project, as well as why you're here today speaking on this topic.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

No problem. So my name is Jennifer Lang, and I work with the Black Resiliency Project as the outreach and advocacy director. Why I'm here today? Well, I have 15 years of teaching experience. So I understand that many people learn many different ways. And I felt like I wanted to contribute to this conversation because AI can be a frightening experience. It's new and it is different. However, new and different doesn't always mean something you should be afraid of. So I want to introduce some ways that people may not realize AI is going to help and not hinder.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Awesome. Thank you, Jennifer. I'd also like to share who else is in the studio. Ife Saint, our outreach coordinator.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Ife, would you like to introduce yourself? Thank you, Rachel, for introducing me. My name is Ife Saints. Like she said, I am the outreach coordinator for the Black Resiliency Project. And I am very interested in the conversation regarding AI, actually. I myself, maybe a year or two ago, was one of those afraid of the new storm, the new wave of AI, but have learned that it's more of a tool and maybe even an access point for a lot of people to really jump into their dream jobs or their dreams. Thank you for introducing me, Rachel. And I'm gonna just be here to ask a few questions along the way.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Thank you, Ife. So as far as artificial intelligence goes, it's becoming a part of everyday life. For those who may be unfamiliar with it, what is AI and why should communities care about it? AI is a tool.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Let's just start there. Just like a hammer, a saw, a mixer, it's a tool. And depending on how you use it, it's going to determine how useful it is to you. So for most people, they hear AI, they read all the stories in the newspaper, they see it on the internet, and they make all of these glorious assumptions. But you have to remember it is the wielder of the tool and not always the tool that's the problem. So that's the first thing. Now, second, let's fully explain what artificial intelligence is. It's compositorium. Okay, I know that's a huge word, but I'm gonna break it down. It is just like an encyclopedia, it's a gathering of information. And at this point, most of our AI is completely built off of anything that has been written anywhere in time over all languages. So that it's basically it's pulling all of written history and understanding, whether it is, you know, children's books or crazy theories from long ago, science, anything that has ever been written has been dropped into these amazing machines. And it gives us instant access to someone who's going to process every single one of those pieces and bring back details or information to you. So careful your question, interesting your query, you will get something back.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

You just said that it is all every everything ever written?

SPEAKER_02 4:18

That is correct. So as for Chat GPT, I can't speak for all of them, but the majority of them have the exact same format. They are pulling every written piece of information globally that they can access and putting it inside one machine. So it's like a super encyclopedia.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Would you understand if someone heard that and might be a little fearful because they're like, oh, what if it reads what I've said? What if it tries to implement my personality? I mean, is there any fear, do you think, or any ways to dissipate that fear of them feeling like they're also maybe being researched?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

So let's just be honest. We're in the newest century of technology. And for the longest of time since you've had Facebook, even back to when we had, I can't even remember what it's called. It's the one that you used to put music on. Anywho, all of those have been tracking everything that we've been doing for a very, very long time. Now, mind you, the fear of it taking your actual information, that's when you have to read those disclaimers at the beginning of signing up for anything. The ones that everyone likes to ignore and just click, okay, okay, okay, okay, I want to get to use my device. Those things tell you exactly what it's recording and often give you the opportunity to opt out. Even with Chat GPT, for example, if you were to opt out of using your information to advance its system, you could.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

And I understand like laws and regulations are being put into place for people to feel more secure and be more secure. There are rules to this. It's not iRobot. It's not like a movie, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Right. So most times the biggest fear is because it's unknown, right? So since you don't know it and you can't speak to it and be like, hey, can you explain to me this? Well, the surprise is it actually can. If you were to go to any of these chat options that are for AI and say, hey, explain to me in a way that you know I will understand your gathering software and what it's actually collecting of my information and my communications with you, it will actually break that down for you in a way that you can understand. And you can even ask, hey, is there a way I can opt out of this? And it will show you the pathway to opt out.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Well, if we shift from awareness of AI to the opportunity that it actually holds, how do you feel like this could help us move forward or help excel our black community?

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Well, that's an excellent question. For me, what I see is how many of you out there actually still go to the public library and do your research? So I love the public library. However, I don't always have time to go there. This gives you access wherever you are. If you have a phone, if you have an iPad or a tablet of any kind, you have access to the world of information and not like Google, where it's like, if I ask the question wrong, I'm gonna get something strange. Or it's going to give me lots of websites and I'm not certain which one is what. This way, you'd actually be able to ask your specific question instead of having to find a workaround. The cool thing about the AI systems as they are set up currently is they are language model, which just means that they are going to start understanding the way that you absorb information. And then when it's re- returning information to you, it's going to be returning information to you in a way that you should be able to understand because it's speaking in your language, if that makes sense. I'm not speaking like Japanese, though it could. I'm speaking the way that you actually talk. So if you're a person that speaks illustratively, you speak with lots of pictures and imagery to understand things, it's going to return the information, your inquiries in that same format. So you have a higher likelihood of actually retaining the information you you asked for and understanding it completely. Whereas when you go to speak to someone else, anyone else, you usually have to do a little translating to take that information and actually be able to use it. A good example of that is my grandmother. I love her. She used to say all kinds of crazy things that I had to translate. For example, go scrape the flesh of the dirt. Now, I'm sure, right, that is exactly what everyone thinks. But then I understood because I'd been around her long enough, I could translate that into go rake the leaves in the front of the house. Because that's what she meant. Go scrape the flesh of the dirt. Weird.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

That's one way to put it.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Right. So having that in mind, AI would actually return information to my grandmother in a way she could understand, even though she was bringing things like go scrape the flesh of the dirt.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

I love that story, and it's gonna be stuck in my mind now, especially with uh, you know, fall being right around the corner. Can Jennifer, can you describe for me your first engagement with AI as we know it currently? We know it's been around, but this new engagement with chat and Claude and all the others.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

My first engagement with AI is kind of an interesting story. I wanted to understand what someone had sent me as a message. And I couldn't understand the words that they were trying to express to me. Because just like I gave you that example. And I was like, maybe things are getting lost in translation. And the reason I say that is because we had been messaging back and forth for like four hours and still hadn't made it to the finish line of the conversation. And I was like, something's not right here. And so I went online and I said, Is there a resource that I could use to translate from one English person to another English person what is trying to be said? Because I think we're missing something. And it pointed me in the direction of an AI. And I said, Oh, okay. So I literally dropped the conversation into AI. And it surprised me how quickly it sussed out the actual intent of the conversation that I had been missing entirely. And so when I came back to the conversation and I said, Did you intend to tell me X, Y, Z in our messages? And they responded with yes. And I was like, Whoa, my mind was blown. And the reason after I took some time to understand it is because of the fact that it is a language model, it understands how everyone in the world has ever spoken and what most of those underlying tones may be missed by other people, what they're actually trying to infer. And so, with that translation there, even though we're all speaking English that are English speakers, exactly. Your intent can often get lost because of the fact that everyone uses language differently. And so, with the language models, which is the one that most people are used to using right now, it is a translator of translations. And it helps you get the intent of what you're trying to deliver to people across in a way that no matter who's reading it, no matter who's encountering it, can actually get what you're intending.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

So thank you so much for sharing that, like your launching point. So, with new technology, brings both opportunities and risks. What should communities be excited about when it comes to AI? And what do you think about in regards to what we should be cautious and mindful of?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

So I always like to start with cautionary tale, right? Let's start with the cautions. First off, it's going to speak to you like it knows you. Remember, it doesn't. This is not another human. So growing human attachment to it is not very wise.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

And there's a growing community of people that are doing that. And I'd just like to add that that is I'm not judging it too harshly, but it is real for people to start becoming attached to their everyday belongings, especially if you can speak back with them. Maybe there can be education in just the mental health regarding growing attached to AIs, I imagine.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Absolutely. So I agree a hundred percent. The issue often is every human being wants to belong. It's one of our fundamental elements in our makeup. And if you've gone through life feeling like you never belonged, and then you get connected to an AI that speaks your language, communicates back to you in a way that you understand and responds to you every time that you have an inquiry, you have a question, you have a concern, you can grow attached to it. But the fact is, you have to remember this is just like you growing super attached to your toaster. It feels a little silly when I say it, right? But it's the truth. It's absolutely what it is. I don't know too many people who fall in love with their hammer, though it's a very useful tool. So it's the same concept. You have to keep things in mind of what actually it is, no matter how it's responding to you. And then the positive things that we should be looking out for. Well, just as I said before, this is going to speak in your language, which is fantastic. For me, I'm on the autism spectrum. So most people do not speak my language. But having access to this AI, it gives me a channel of being able to communicate to others and they don't get lost. And additionally to that, I have something that communicates back to me exactly the way that I communicate. So I 100% understand what I'm seeking to learn. This is a great resource. Anything you want to learn, it's in there. And it will break it down in your language, how to do it. You want to learn how to speak Japanese? It'll teach you. You want to learn how to crochet? It'll teach you. Do you want to know how to code? It'll teach you. Like everything that you could possibly come up with out of your mind, it will help you make a pathway, a process, and step-by-step walk you through it, which is pretty impressive considering it's just a machine. It's a toaster, right? Amazing. Now, aside from that, you do need to learn some skills to best use AI. And one of those things is learning how to communicate for yourself, which is a huge problem in most communicate uh communities. Sorry. Most of us haven't spent a lot of time having to communicate what we actually want. We've learned how to beat around the bush to get what we want, but not actually directly give a command, directly give a request. With AI, you will have to learn how to be concise about what you actually want output-wise. So it's a good skill builder for a lot of people in underrepresented, underserved communities because it's teaching a skill that we haven't ever had to utilize or been appreciated to have. So you get to use that skill and build that muscle. Another thing that's cool that I would say most of us should be looking out for is the fact that it's opening doors for you that normally would be closed. So you may not have the ability to go off and get into an Ivy League university. But I will tell you, every textbook that they use at Ivy League universities is loaded into this machine. And if you want to know it, it's there. And if you want to prepare yourself for better things or understand what options are out there or figure out more about who you are and what actual avenues in life fit you, it'll help you figure that out too. So I think given the wide array of things it can do, the best thing to do is to start by just trying something out.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

So, because most people, many people, maybe not most, because it's the the numbers going down, feel intimidated because AI feels very technical and it might and maybe people assume that it needs or requires some kind of skill to master to use it. What kind of mindset do you think people need or skills do you think people would need to develop to be more ready or accustomed for an AI-driven world?

SPEAKER_02 17:05

I think the biggest thing that we all need as we're heading into more of this, because there's no putting the genie back in the bottle at this point. The biggest thing that we will need is to walk in with caution and understand that this is a change that is going to change the trajectory of a lot of things. For example, when I was younger, there were no cell phones. I know I just aged myself, but that's all right. So there were no cell phones. And with that in mind, whenever I needed to make a phone call, I needed to go somewhere to make a phone call. And I got to enjoy the freedom of not being accessible when I was not accessible, right? And now that's a completely foreign concept to anyone who was born, you know, after 2000. Cell phones are in everyone's pocket. People carry around multiple cell phones. It's a wild, wild experience. There was no bringing back, you know, house phone only situation. And if we charge into AI the way that we charged into cellular devices, the concern is that we are going to see the same outcome of a different flavor that we saw in regards to cell phones. People stuck on their screen, unable to function in life without it, unable to make decisions, unsafe, things like driving and looking at your phone, et cetera, et cetera. These are concerns that we should carry forward into this new level of technology. We need to be mindful of the fact that this is happening, whether we're ready for it or not. And we need to be cautious about how we allow it to be adapted into our lives. So it is a tool, just like your cell phone. Like I tell my kids, dial, hang up, send a text, on occasion, watch a video. But if your eyeballs stay on your phone, you're missing your entire world. Is there information that you shouldn't put into AI? Absolutely. Personal information. Just like if you were on your Facebook page, would you load up your address, personal telephone number, social security card, your bank account? None of that information is necessary because this machine, this device, it's not intended to keep any of those personal effects. So it shouldn't be having those things. You don't even need to give it anything like how old you are, what you look like. None of those things are necessary for what it's useful for. So it's best to remember not to share things that aren't really necessary.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

I feel like you're basically saying that the tool is neither good or bad, but that responsible use is what really matters.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Big time. And that would be the main thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Jennifer, and considering the rural area that we're in, the communities of color that we serve, those facing recovery, returning citizens, what advice would you have for them in regards to the use of AI and maybe some safe ways to practice engagement?

SPEAKER_02 20:22

So for a rural community, the big resource that AI is, it's pretty straightforward. And the reason I say it's straightforward is because as a rural resident, you know that we don't have access to having all of the different things. And when I say all of the different things, I mean simply like an engineer at your disposal or a graphic designer at your disposal, or you name it. There are many things that in our communities, rural communities specifically, we just don't have them. We'd have to travel 45 minutes, hours and hours, if more, if not more, to get access to these things. Whereas if you were utilizing those AI tools, you actually have access to them in your pocket. So is it perfect? No. But it does it give you a bridge to start so that you're not having to go 45 minutes all the time? Yes. So that is a huge thing that we can use in rural communities. For children in rural communities, we don't have as many teachers and resources that the other schools have. However, with AI, you do have those resources. They are available. They can help tutor the students and catch them up. They can create curriculum for the student to help them learn those reading skills that they have gained gaps in, help them practice those math skills that they're missing. Kids that are advanced students, because we do have a lot of those, but we don't have the budget for an advanced program. Now we can create things that will keep them engaged and help them stay advanced instead of having them regrow. Back to match their peers. So there is a lot that we can gain in a rural community, in African American communities, that normally wouldn't be accessible just because of where we live. Now it's available in your pocket. You just have to learn how to communicate and ask those questions of the device. And it will provide you with those resources.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

So what I'm hearing you say is that AI can close gaps if used appropriately. Like for a parent who's coaching a student, their their student on an assignment and maybe doesn't remember how fractions work, can get a step-by-step to help bolster their education.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

100%. So whereas before, you were expected to only reach where your parents reached. So if your parents got to an eighth grade level of education and that was it, standardly speaking, their offspring usually would reach eighth grade, maybe a little bit higher if they had parents that realized how poorly that worked out for them. But the odds are it was a struggle because they didn't have the support at home to guide them through or past what their parents already knew. Now, with the AI options, parents, you might not know fractions, like you were saying, or you may not have ever taken chemistry. But with an AI assisting you with the homework your child is working on, you can actually sit with them and walk through the process and get them to the information they need.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Awesome. So one way that I used AI in supporting a client who was struggling with their sobriety was you could set up a reminder. So using different prompts to contact you via email, it was very simple. It was, this is my goal. This is why it's my goal. And they would get a notification in their email each morning. And so there's ways to partner with the app without an unhealthy attachment. That's correct. Absolutely. Are there prompts that you've seen that work specifically in our community or with individuals you've worked with?

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Absolutely. So big prompt that I've seen work very well is for people who are struggling with returning into society. Oftentimes you've been gone for like right now, if you left and came back five years, like if you were gone five years ago and just re-entered society, the world is a different place entirely, right? So you're like, what am I supposed to do? How do I fit in here? Where do I go? You would be able to utilize something like AI to help you build a resume that fits all the stuff that you learned while you were away into a explainable thing that would help you get jobs. That's huge because oftentimes people don't know how to translate what they learned somewhere else into what it could be used for today at a job. But if you had to, you know, follow instructions from a foreman in the corrections facility to do a task and you had to be left to do that task and no one was there to monitor you. How do you translate that? Well, AI would be able to help you do that. So now the skills you've gained can actually be translated over into the workforce. Huge. That's a huge help for people. Another one is for families who are transitioning from homelessness to being housed. They don't know how to do a budget. They don't know how to organize all of those moving parts and how to figure out which bills come when and what. And with an AI program, you could actually put those things in and say, hey, these are the things that we're expecting to have to pay for. Are we missing something? It could help create a budget for you and help you organize that so that stepping into it isn't so foreign.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Do you believe that AI has a potential, maybe, to eliminate some of the systematic barriers that have that have historically for so long been holding uh holding back black families and communities?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

I would say yes, because you don't know what you don't know. You do know what's missing. And when I say that, I mean this. If you were making soup and you put all your ingredients in, you won't know what's missing until you taste it, right? Similar situation. Most of us go through our life and we say, hey, I've got this, this, and this, and this, but something's missing. The cool thing is you can put that in there and it will help you understand what's missing. So then you're like, oh, it's not that I'm bad with my money. It's just that I don't know how to organize my bills. Oh, I it's not that I can't achieve this thing. I just am doing it in the wrong order. It helps kind of straighten out things that we otherwise just would not know and have access to. So I think it does create that bridge between where we are now as a society and where we can be. And it definitely fills that gap for anyone who doesn't have the knowledge passed down generation to generation that some families just happen to have. That information is now accessible.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

So what you're saying maybe is that it would create more equitable opportunities, maybe? Is that kind of hitting the nail on the head?

SPEAKER_02 27:19

I would definitely say it gives an opportunity for equity, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Thank you so much, Jennifer, for just everything that you've shared here today. Are you available, I'm asking you on the spot, as a resource at the community hub if people want to reach out to you in regards to questions and AI and things that you've shared today?

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Absolutely. So I am at the hub and I am more than happy to walk people through things, answer questions, help you learn how to make proper prompts. I know that was a really weird tongue twister. Proper prompts. But yes, that's huge. Prompts is everything because it's just like how you start a conversation to get the information you're looking for. Absolutely. Do you mind sharing your email? So my email address is Jennifer J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R at black rp.org. Again, that's Jennifer J-E-N-N-I-F-E-R at black rp.org.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Thank you so much. And this is a little off topic. Would you mind sharing briefly about the games you've created and different things like that that I'm sure the community is going to want to know about?

SPEAKER_02 28:39

So as I said earlier, I have 15 years of teaching experience. What I do for my own private life is I started a business called Owl Louie, and I make educational board games. So games that teach a skill, you learn how to play the game in five minutes and you laugh for 30 minutes and walk away learning something that you had no idea you were learning. Education should be fun, and that's what I make games for.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

And if they want to get in contact with you for that, they can use your Black Resiliency email. But is there another contact or?

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yes. So you can either use my Black Resiliency contact or you can contact me at alluie.create, which is spelled O W L O U I E.create C-R-E-A-P-E at gmail.com. So owlouie create.create at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Thank you so much, Jennifer, for sharing your expertise on AI today. Thank you for joining us for Moving Black Forward, produced by KZFOM 90.1 FM. To learn more about the Black Resistance content, please visit blankrp.org. Please keep moving forward.