Bad Critics
Chuck and Blake don’t simply disagree about which films are good. They disagree about what films are FOR. Chuck believes movies are a craft to be assessed — their quality is a function of intentionality, architecture, and whether they earn the emotional or intellectual response they're reaching for. Blake believes movies are an experience to be felt — their quality is a function of whether something real moved through him when the lights went down. Both positions are philosophically defensible. Neither host can fully respect the other’s framework without abandoning his own. That irreducible tension is every episode.
Welcome to Bad Critics!
Bad Critics
You’re A Bad Critic
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In this very first episode the guys introduce the flow of the show, Rate the empire strikes back, run through their personal top 10 movie lists and Blake defends Hulk 2003.
What's up, you guys, and welcome to the very first episode of Bad Critics. I'm Blake.
SPEAKER_02This is Chuck.
SPEAKER_00And we started this podcast because Chuck has horrible takes. Sure. No, for real though, uh, we talk about movies a lot, and we were just having a conversation uh the other day about why don't we record these? I mean, they're they're funny and they're they could be really entertaining. So here we are. Here we are. So we're gonna uh run you through how the show is gonna work. We've got a couple recurring segments that are gonna happen, and then we have what is called anchor topics, so that's gonna be the main focus of the show for that specific episode. Um, so yeah, Chuck, you want to talk to them about what it is to be a bad critic?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, uh a bad critic, and it's it's not necessarily somebody who's wrong, although Blake often is, but uh it's it's more about you know refusing to to lie to you to match what's popular. You know, I see a lot of critics out there that go with the consensus and whatever number they see on Rotten Tomatoes, and in my experience, um those numbers are are often pretty wrong. So this is where those consensuses, consensus, is that a word? I don't know. We'll see. Uh go to die. And uh every rating on the show is gonna be our own, and we'll refuse to to tell you what you want to hear. Uh tell you what we what we actually think.
SPEAKER_00I think that's a good thing to to say is like I'm not gonna sit here and and lie to you about, you know, I'm gonna try to be as specific as possible why I have a rating for something, why I have something on a list, and you everybody will find out pretty soon that I have a lot of lists to to make up. Yeah, I have a lot of lists. I think I'm dude, I think I'm at like 24 now.
SPEAKER_02I I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. I I think every day there's another one, you know. And some sometimes they're the same ones. It's like top 10, top 10 part two, you know. I don't know, I don't know what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, so we'll get to that, but I think that I actually figured out a really good way to differentiate what I need to be on my top 10 and what I need to be on different lists. Okay, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01I'm interested in hearing this. Yeah, no, I'm sure there's some logic there. No, there is definitely logic there, dude. My letterbox is ADHD as fuck. Like my fucking dude, my letterbox needs Ritalin. Like, I thought I thought you were already on Ritalin.
SPEAKER_02The letterbox specifically needs an extra prescription. I'm not on Ritalin. Oh, you're not? Oh no, no. You're on one of them now.
SPEAKER_01No. That's the problem. Dude, that's the problem, is that I'm unmedicated ADHD just rolling through letterbox like it's no problem. Dude, I bet people get anxiety looking at my letterboxed.
SPEAKER_02I do. So n equals one.
SPEAKER_00Can't be well, I was honestly surprised. I looked at yours a lot, and it's like just this one list. And I'm like, oh my God, bro.
SPEAKER_01Oh shit.
SPEAKER_02For the record, I do have ADHD too, though. You know, I just uh and I'm also unmedicated, I guess. I don't I don't know, I have some coping mechanisms or something.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, hey, we're gonna get on to our first uh our first recurring segment at the top of each show. Uh it's called the Star Gap. Chug, what is the Star Gap? How do we play?
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, star gap on here. Uh it's it's somewhere where we we disagree. You know, and it can be uh a strong disagree. Sometimes they're not gonna be a huge disagreement, but in this case, I'd say it's pretty significant. We're starting off with the Empire Strikes Back. I give it the reasonable five. Uh Blake gives it a what is it a I give it a three point five.
SPEAKER_00So real quick before we roll into this, we will specify on Letterboxd you only get five stars. Um I tend to rate things out of ten, so each half star is one, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um so three point five is a seven out of ten. Is that is that how math works? I think. Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah. It is two equals seven, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I think I was telling you that it was six the other day. Okay, yeah, no, so it so it is a seven. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All right, so by the way, guys, this is the the best reviewed sequel, I think, in the history of sequels. And uh on the first day of the show, this man is giving it a uh seven out of ten, knocks a whole star and a half out of five off of it, you know.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, okay, well, let's start here. Like, okay. Why do you give it a 10 out of ? Oh, listen, 10 out of 10 is obviously not a wrong answer at all. I completely understand it's justified. Why would you give it a 10 out of 10?
SPEAKER_0210 out of 10. So this one is, and and we'll get to our top 10 uh later today. Uh, I will give you a little preview. Empire Strikes Back just falls off my top 10. It's not quite there. It's it's a top 20 movie for me.
SPEAKER_00Really? We'll say, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't even think that you were that much into Star Wars, to be honest with you. I love Star Wars.
SPEAKER_02I love Star Wars. Um, I even love the I even love the uh the new trilogy, you know, the the first three movies. The pre the prequels? The prequels, yeah, that's what they call them.
SPEAKER_00Okay, because there's this big this is gonna be a big thing to say, like right off the bat, like within the first five minutes. But is it is it under like Star Wars seems kind of dead.
SPEAKER_02Now with the movies. I hate I hate Star Wars now. Okay. The most recent trilogy was awful. Yeah. I mean, it absolutely terrible. And and and even the the stuff that they're putting out with the different TV shows and the Mandalorian, um, you know, there was where there was there was Andor, which was actually pretty good. I think that's one of the few that was worth maybe a watch that they've made recently. Uh but yeah, Star Wars has been, I mean, it's Disney, right? Disney Disney just beats things beats them horses until they're dead.
SPEAKER_00Well, Disney Disney wants to own everything, but they they shouldn't. You know, it's like, okay, let's just not own everything and let's let's okay, you know, the comparison that I can make is I just watch Michael. Okay, okay. You can tell that somebody was like, you know what, a really profitable biopic would be Michael Jackson. But nobody that made the movie really loves Michael Jackson. I mean, they might like biopics, you know, it because it's dude, it's basically it's it's like Bohemian Rhapsody if you rushed it. And honestly, the the best biopic that I've seen, specifically music biopic that I've seen personally, I think is the Elvis movie. Although I think that the Colonel. Yeah, the Colonel is pretty bad. Yeah, I just it's a great character, and it's Tom Hanks is an amazing actor, and he j it just seems like he botched it, bro. Honestly. So that's kind of how I feel um about Disney taking over Star Wars. But but specifically, I sorry to go off track, but so specifically like Empire Strikes Back.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Empire Strikes Back. So Empire Strikes Back, I think is uh uh as I mentioned, history of sequels, right? I think it's the greatest bridge movie ever made, um, with the exception of Dark Knight.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I was I was hoping you were gonna throw that in there. So so my first question is is like, okay, I get that because I've always heard that, you know, it is the you know, specifically in Star Wars, everybody's like, oh, it's Empire. It's not Star Wars, it's empire, you know? Does that matter to your score that it is considered one of the best by the masses? Like it does do you take that into account when you're when you're rating it for yourself?
SPEAKER_02No, no, I wouldn't say so. You know, I think the reason that I that I rate it so highly, um, it's hard to make a sequel, right? Like like bridge films, uh and and I s and I say specifically sequel in the context of a trilogy, right? Like we think about Twin Towers, we think about Dark Knight. Um the thing that that strikes back does so well, and the reason it's so hard to make the second of a third film is that usually it it has to bridge, right? It there's not a lot of payoff that you can get in a second movie because it's leading into a third. At the same time, you you don't get the world building of the first because the world's been built. So now you have a built world, you have to just kind of bridge your way to a third movie, right? That's hard to do. And Empire Strikes Back, you have a complete emotional arc for Luke inside of the one movie. Right? The end you get to the iconic, of course, I'm your father, uh, which actually was uh I think it was one of those things where we remember that wrong. It's not like actually Luke, I am your father. It's like there's a lot of yes, no, I am your father. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um but he he starts off, you know, he's this cocky farm boy, right? He gets taken down a couple pegs by yoga Yoda. You th wait, uh when is he okay, when is he cocky? Oh, he's he's so cocky. He's so cocky. In a new hope? No, I so New Hope obviously is is tr tr tragic, right, with what happens there. Okay. But Luke coming into it, I mean he's he's he's he's a hothead.
SPEAKER_00So you're saying you're saying like after the when you start Empire Strikes back like off of what happened in A New Hope, you're kind of have this cockier character okay.
SPEAKER_02And and it's not it's not that he's cocky in the in the vein of like, but he thinks he's gonna go avenge and solve the problems of the universe, right? Like he's the guy, is is what Luke is.
SPEAKER_00He's already got it in his mind that he's like the chosen one, basically. Because he is, right? He quite literally is the chosen one. He's he is uh Luke Skywalker is Star Wars. Like he is he is the character, yeah. You know, he's he is our main guy, he's the chosen one of the entire franchise.
SPEAKER_02And um, you know, then it gets broken down by Yoda, and then at the end you have this whole thing with with Darth Vader, right? So it does all of that stuff for the train.
SPEAKER_00You're talking about the training.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, the training with Yoda, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Best part of the movie.
SPEAKER_02It is the best part of the movie.
SPEAKER_00Best part of the movie.
SPEAKER_02It is the best part of the movie, you know, and and like I I if we compare it to to two towers, right? Lord of the Rings. Um Lord of the Rings, two towers, it it really drives.
SPEAKER_00Wait, earlier, I did not know that's what you're talking about, so I didn't stop you. I think you said Twin Towers.
SPEAKER_01I'm always paused. I was like, I just tried to like blow past it. I was like, what the fuck is he talking about? Twin Towers. It's like, yeah, you know the second movie always fucking takes to always bring that to you know, and people people forget about the third tower in the twin towers.
SPEAKER_02You know that third tower? How the fuck did that thing go down? You know, the third tower. You you don't know about the third tower, dude.
SPEAKER_00Okay, you know my birthday, right? My birthday is September 11th. Is it really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I didn't know that actually.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you should know more about 9-11 conspiracy theories.
SPEAKER_00No, I try to stay away from it, honestly. Bad juju. It's not that, it's just like uh Hey, what's your birthday? September 11th. Oh, dude, that shit sucks. You know, it's like for obviously it is fucking horrible. But I'm still gonna drink on my birthday, you know. Yeah. Never forget that it is my birthday.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um but I but I think that you know the and and actually if you think about Empire Strikes Back versus Two Towers, not Twin Towers, guys. Uh Two Towers is much better. Two Towers much better, much better. Twin Towers kind of a downer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I definitely did.
SPEAKER_02Um They don't have a museum yet for two towers. But you know, they sp they split it up. The the they split the parties up in both of these, right? You have like the Frodo Sam arc in Two Towers, you have the Luke arc versus the Leia arc, right, and in Empire Strikes Back. And I think that what Empire Strikes Back does a lot better is both of those arcs work really well, right? They they both advance the plot, they both are fully self-contained in the one movie. You know, two towers with the Frodo and Sam. Love Helm's Deep, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the best, one of the best fight sequences, battle sequences ever. But the whole Frodo and Sam thing, it it it just it it it sucks.
SPEAKER_00I think that too is like if if we're comparing Empire Strikes back to you know to Two Towers, I mean listen, if you if you watch Lord of the Rings all the way through, it's the same movie, you know? Yeah, but it's the in my opinion, I think it's the darkest out of the three. It seems like that it's you know, there's a lot of heavier shit in two towers. Yeah. And I would say that Empire Strikes Back seems that way at times, but well, real quick, before I get into my 3.5 rating, sure. I kind of wanted to know, especially like it's obviously you know, the top if you were to rank Star Wars.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's the number one Star Wars film. Okay, and Star Wars as a rule, I do really like especially the first three movies. I even like the prequels. Um, the the this last one we don't need to talk about, but that series of six movies, I think, and as far as a series goes, it's not quite there overall for me, I'll say this, as Lord of the Rings. Like Return of the King is phenomenal. I think it's better than anything in the Star Wars franchise. And I think that Lord of the Rings as a whole is higher for me. That's fair. But Star Wars, you know, is is is definitely up there as a series.
SPEAKER_00So well, okay, let well let me bridge off to kind of explain where I'm at, because I would assume that you're pretty hard, you know, on that 10 out of 10. You know, it's probably nostalgic for you as well. Certainly, yeah. So uh let me get into my 3.5, and maybe it'll make you feel a little bit better about why I have it rated that way. When I sat down as a kid to watch Star Wars, my parents put on a new hope. Holy shit, I was just like blown away by a new hope. Now, I wasn't as high on anything Star Wars than I was other things. You know, this was about the same time that I, you know, I was being shown, you know, Lou Ferrigno's Incredible Hulk and you know, uh Sam Raimi's Spider-Man was already out by the time that I had watched uh any Star Wars movies. So I was a little bit higher on like superheroes and and stuff like that, I would say, than than I was. You know, fucking Batman and Robin and Batman Forever have been out and stuff like that. I was more on that side of things. Star Wars did seem foreign to me. You know, I was just like, oh, okay, what's this? But um Superman, the Super, like the four Superman movies, that was something that I watched before Star Wars, and I was like in love with Superman the movie. The the reason I have it at a 3.5 is because when I saw it, um a new hope was the thing, but I knew everything that was gonna happen. Okay, so like this big reveal, like, yeah, I thought the Yoda part was obviously awesome, yeah, you know, but the the whole I am your father, I was like, oh yeah, there's there's that part that I've been hearing about because it's the one of the most iconic things to have ever been said. Right. So I'd been hearing it a lot before I ever saw the movie, you know, and I think that without that surprise, that's what kind of killed it for me. And also I just like a new hope better. Like there's this very like looming dread that a new hope kind of has because of Darth Vader, but you know, and then him being so upfront, it kind of like uh Empire feels more like a heist training movie than it does feel like it's like a Rocky montage kind of thing, yeah. Exactly. And I think that's why I like a new hope better. But I also I also have a thing for like um what is it called? Like uh like the first movie.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Because of the world building. You're this is the first time you're introduced to the to the galaxy and everything about it, you know, the Sith Lords, and yeah, there's this is a new concept, right?
SPEAKER_00And I think that how Luke becomes you know, like how he gets into this world is more interesting to me than him already being into it, I guess.
SPEAKER_02He's just on some backwater planet, you know, and nobody's ever heard of this guy, right? You know, and then all of a sudden he is turns into the guy. Exactly. See, but I think that the second movie, you know, you talk about the dread, I think it really amplifies the dread, right? Like you you get Boba Fett you coming in and and being more of a figure. You have the empire the emperor is now a real the emperor doesn't really exist in the first movie, right? But the emperor is a real presence in the second movie.
SPEAKER_00I think that that's what I like though, is that sometimes what you can imagine, like I get it, a lot of people are like, oh, that's just exposition. Sometimes exposition is a little bit more dreadful than actually seeing it. It's like your imagination's gonna conjure up worse things than what you actually see most of the time.
SPEAKER_02The Emperor is a faceless concept, is scarier than actually seeing it.
SPEAKER_00I think so. You're like, okay, what you know, what is that? It's like hearing a ghost story. You're like, but when you see the ghost, you're like, okay.
SPEAKER_02So if you if you saw if you saw Empire Strikes Back in the theaters when it came out, it'd be higher than a 3.5 for you.
SPEAKER_00I uh yeah, of course. I think so. I think I think so. And and listen.
SPEAKER_02If you if if that if that twist at the end was completely unexpected and you were just like, holy shit, right? Like this guy is his father.
SPEAKER_00I think that there's also a way to again, I haven't re-watched Return of the Jedi in a long time. I know that that's usually criticized as one of the like it like the worst in in the original trilogy, which is probably the same reason that maybe Batman and Robin and Batman Forever are are rated so low in the you know, from the 89 run, because they're so toyetic. You know, they're made to sell toys. Sure. Empire Strikes Back was selling toys, A New Hope was selling toys. They're like, okay, well, let's really sell some fucking toys and let's make this movie. But I think there's a way for Empire Strikes Back. I think it would have been um even more amazing if they if they did something to make that the ending of the trilogy instead of the middle part.
SPEAKER_02And that and that's actually I think why I have it at a five, because I think that it I I actually love that ending, right? Like just a a an ending where the the good guys lose, you know? I I think that's one of the things that's really great about Strikes Back. It's the same thing with Dark Knight. Is that they at the end of Empire Strikes Back, it's kind of we're in a bad spot, right? Like we're in a really bad spot. Han Solo has just been frozen. You know what I mean? That iconic line, right? Like Leia's, I love you, you know, as Han Solo. And Luke's just got his arm chopped off, and it looks like the bad guys are done for. And then I and I think to that point, that's why Return of the Jedi doesn't work as well. Is because in Return of the Jedi, you you have this like, you know, trope of and the good guys to lose.
SPEAKER_00It's okay for the it's okay for the good guys to lose. Absolutely. And I think that that usually makes for better stories because especially since there is so much overcrowding in in movies, especially ones that run off of the coming of age poor kid from a different planet that doesn't know who he is, uh who he actually is, and finds out that he is destined to be the biggest hero in the galaxy. Right. You expect him to to win, you know, and you want him to win. But seeing him lose is his hand. Yeah, right. But seeing him lose in a way that is um in torment is tormenting, like, no, dude, I'm your dad. And I I'd kill you, you know, like I'd kill you if I could, you know, I'd kill you if I'm gonna try. I think that that those are the things that bring me, those are what makes up the stars that I do have on it. Are those things. The problems that I think I have with it are uh the Star Wars fandom that you know, if they want people to like that movie and they think that it's a 10 out of 10 and they think it's the best out of all of them, then they need to shut the fuck up and let, you know, obviously like share it with people, but if you've never fucking seen it before, shut the fuck up, you know, like let people experience it or they're not gonna get it. You know, I didn't get it. I was like, okay, great. I saw that and I already knew about it. Like I knew about the twist ending. Whereas, dog, fight club, sure, nobody spoils fight club out of good faith. You know what I mean? One rule of fight club is yeah, we don't talk about it. Exactly. It should be the same thing for for stuff like that. Like, if you find it so sacred, then shut the fuck up about it. Like, like let people experience it, or because I do think that at that age too, Empire Strikes Back has a lot has more action. Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100% more action than a new hope does. Why do I still like a new hope more? It could be because because I saw it first and it's the introduction, and I was such on on this big high about it. But I do think that some of the things are like I think that empire is inflated. We uh one of the my I think here's a good argument for it. We wouldn't give a fuck if it wasn't for a new hope.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00A new hope does so much legwork to make empire enjoyable for the people that like it. And so I don't really hear a lot of people like I don't hear a lot of a new hope slander, really. But but people that think empire is aggressively better than a new hope, I think that's I don't like that take at all.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I wouldn't agree with that take either. I I and what what I'm gathering is a new hope, if I were to extrapolate here, is still not a five for you. It's it's more of a four. I would say it's a four and a half.
SPEAKER_00It's a four and a half. And because I can take all the iconicity that Empire has, and you can give it to Star Wars. You can give it to A New Hope. You know? Um another thing that it kind of falls off for me now, and this is a this is a bad critic moment, bro, is uh I don't think I think George Lucas is a good creative. I don't think that he let he needs to let his shit go.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's the great thing about Strikes Back. It wasn't directed by George Lucas.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no. I understand that, but he is still the one calling the shots to change shit.
SPEAKER_02He he does retain a lot of control.
SPEAKER_00I bet you that the original, which I've never seen the original cut of A New Hope of Star Wars, and I'd really like to because I think that I would love it that much more. Because stop changing stuff, dude. Yeah, like you've seen Mad Max.
SPEAKER_02George Lucas is his own worst enemy for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if you've seen Mad Max, I have you seen the first one, yeah. Okay, compared to all the other ones, it makes no fucking sense how that's in that world. Yeah, no, it's no sense at all. And I think that that's fine. It doesn't matter how we get from here to here, we just do. There's this suspension of disbelief. Is that how you say it? Yeah, I think that that's fine. More people need it. It's like uh Superman, the new Superman 2025. Haven't seen it, bro. I watched it by myself and I was like, dude, come on, bro. Because I like Guardians, James Gunn did awesome on Guardians. You know, it's it's the same thing with Iron Man. John Favreau and and uh Robert Down Jr. made us care about a C-list Marvel character, yeah. And then you have the Avengers and all that. Everybody's a C list character except for Hulk. Fucking everybody, yeah.
SPEAKER_02They're not there, it's not the Holy Trinity, exactly.
SPEAKER_00You know, that's why that's why I'm kind of excited for you know the progression, because then you get the characters that I actually give a fuck about, you know, and I think it would be awesome to see them. But my my whole point is Superman. I watched it and I didn't make it through 30 minutes. I was like, bro, this is fucking horrible. Wow. Next morning, Halen goes, I want to watch Superman. Didn't even know he he knew who Superman was. And I was like, Okay, let's watch it. I'm sitting next to him, and he is just like, oh my god, it's Superman. So then I was like, maybe I'm being a dick.
SPEAKER_02Probably.
SPEAKER_00I think it's dude, Superman's good. 2025. You have to have a suspension of disbelief. You cannot go into it like it is Christopher Reeves anymore. If anything, it might be better to think about it that way because all of the technology advances since then, you know, and I think that's what people are kind of looking for. It's like CGI, and we'll get into CGI fucking later about how people are like, oh, this, you know, the CGI doesn't look good. Dude, it's not gonna look good. It's CGI. Either you do more of it practical or it's gonna look CGI. That's the only way that they can make your your comic books come to life, right?
SPEAKER_02Because they're comic books, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And I think that Star Wars does a really good job, and I'm I'm saying that with the prequels as well, because um who's the duck? Not the duck, he's not a duck, but Jar Jar. Jar Jar. Jar Jar looks fucking good. He does. Jar Jar looks really good for a CGI character. But he but he looks good, but but he looks good, and that's kind of my thing with it.
SPEAKER_02And the battle sequences with Jar Jar's people versus the droids, like they look good. Pretty good battle sequences, right?
SPEAKER_00But there's also your your your brain is always gonna go, that's CGI. Sure, you know, and I do think that there's times where you know you can tell that whoever was doing the art, the CGI art for it, maybe they were like, nah, I gotta make this scene look tough as fuck. But I mean, like, it's expensive, you know, and I think that you know you have those moments where it's gonna look really good, and we'll get back into it when we get to defend it.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, yeah, we'll definitely and the defend it choice for this week and for the first time.
SPEAKER_00No, I think it looks fucking awesome. Oh, okay. I think it looks fucking awesome. We'll we'll see. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we'll talk about it. Well, hey. And Defend It, by the way, is uh segment that's gonna come later. And uh Blake's got a really good one on the docket for us. This is one of those unpopular takes that we defend. Defend the indefensible, I think is the full yeah, that's the full name.
SPEAKER_00I changed it to defend it because it's it's catchier.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but yeah, so defend it is a you know and Blake's take today is truly indefensible.
SPEAKER_00No, it is not, it is not. I thought you enjoyed it. I was getting that impression that you enjoyed it. And I think I'm gonna change your mind if you didn't. I don't know where you got that impression. Dude, even if you didn't, I think I can change your mind on it. On a couple things for sure. But uh yeah, Defend It is where, you know, each episode one of us picks a universally unpopular uh movie that we defend that's actually good and and and holds up and maybe needs to be revisited.
SPEAKER_02But before we get to Defend It, uh the next one for us this week is gonna be, and this is a special for this week, although this will be a somewhat of a recurring segment, right, as as we go through.
SPEAKER_00Well, the the the first like I I would say the first 10 episodes are kind of backlogged, kind of getting everybody to know who we are, where we stand on things.
SPEAKER_02And the and this is a big one, because before we go any further, we're putting our top ten on the table. And uh I think we'll see. We we actually haven't gone over this together yet, so we're doing this first time live. And I think there's gonna be quite a few fights on this one, and and and it's gonna feed into, you know, uh Blake was talking about those first 10, getting to know us, gonna feed into that because uh a lot of those next few episodes are gonna trace back to these two lists. And I'll I'll just go ahead and get us started on this.
SPEAKER_00Well, real quick before you do that, it is hard to make a top 10. It is. It seemed it really no, it really no, dude. Honestly, when yours came up on Letterboxd and that was the only list that was there, it pissed me off so fucking bad because I was like, why is this so easy for him? Dude, I had to get people to help me and go, I don't know what to put exactly on this list. Maddie had to be like, dude, okay, these are some things that you can make other lists for, and you'll get to them. Make your top 10. And I'm like, well, this has to be on there, and this has to be on there. Like before we even get uh uh I guess I'll mention the ones like kind of honorable mentions that I wanted to put on there before I go. But I think it is a little bit difficult when you love so many movies and for different reasons, and you know, you like them for different reasons, but you like them the same. Does that make sense? Like you kind of rate them the same. So I do think it's hard to make a top 10 for me. Like I said, my letterbox is ADHD as shit. It was easier for me to make multiple different lists so that I could go, okay, this is my top 10 movies. I also have like a top 10 childhood movies, and I have a top 10 comedy movies. I've got top 10 best movies ever made, you know, because that's a different thing than personal favorites, you know. So I think that's a little bit how I kept track of it. And again, as you listen to more episodes, the I think the clearer it'll become.
SPEAKER_02And for me, uh making a top 10 was not nearly as hard as make Blake made it out to be here. Uh I I probably made this top 10 list in all of 10 minutes. And there have been, I will say, you know, as I've thought about it a little more over the over the next few days, some tweaks, some additional movies I've forgotten about that got added in, um, a few that didn't quite make the cut. You know, like I mentioned, you know, there's no Star Wars movies on this. Right. And and and for the record, New Hope for me is also a 4.5. Uh so you know, Empire is a five. It is the best of the of the trilogy for sure. New Hope is is right up there. It's one of the most, one of the best movies ever. But uh my top 10, um, I'll go ahead and dive right into it. I think, you know, really the the thing I'd say thematically about my top 10 is that it's it's about craft. And I think this is where I'm I'm maybe a better movie critic than than Blake. Blake's like the really bad movie critic on this.
SPEAKER_00No, I think that I I think I'm a little bit more uh emotionally specific about my list than than you are. I think that that is that is the case. You know, you are a lot, you're focused on the craft where some of that stuff I can let slide. I'm like, again, suspension of disbelief. Like if there's something that would normally take somebody out of a movie, uh, most of the time I can look past it and and kind of see what, okay, why did they do this? Take time into example, you know, a lot. I I feel like at least the first list that I saw from you, I was like, okay, these are all like for something about them, this seemed really similar.
SPEAKER_02There is there is. And and I think actually, and and this is where, you know, maybe I I think where the bad movie critic piece comes in for me, and and I'll just call myself out on this. These are uh white male western-centric movies, right? A lot of these have a similar theme of some kind of man, you know, down on his luck, right, coming up and and and growing and and doing something really cool. And I think there's probably something about that that's that's just what I like about movies. I think they're also really well-crafted movies. I think every single movie on this list is a masterpiece, you know, whether it's cinematography what with the cinematography, uh, the sound design, you'll see some specific directors on this list, which we're gonna talk about in in upcoming episodes. And for those directors that are there, it was actually kind of hard for me to pare down to one or I think there might be two movies for some of these guys uh on here. And and then they are overwhelmingly uh white men, you know. And and and I and I and I'll just own that. I I think that they there's probably something about me innately. You probably see me right now, if you can see me on the video, the way I'm dressed, probably the decor a little bit like I am, I'm I'm a white man.
SPEAKER_00No, I didn't I what was it, Kieran Colgan? I didn't I didn't notice. Um so I'll just you know, before I before I dig myself in any kind of hole here. I truthfully, I don't think that matters. It's like it it doesn't matter who made the movie. If you like the movie, you like the movie, you know.
SPEAKER_02And and I'm not saying I like the movie because white men made the movie.
SPEAKER_00It sounds like just to be clear. I'm not gonna watch a spikely movie.
SPEAKER_02I've watched plenty of spikely movies. Uh can't say any of them really spoke to me, to be honest with you. But again, I'm probably not the target audience for those movies, and then that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's uh there's a Denzel Washington interview where he was where they were asking, like, you know, why did a you know black director have to make whatever movie they were talking about? It was probably fences, I think is what it was. And he was well, it's not about color, it's about culture, you know. Um Spielberg did Schindler's List and Scorsese, you know, does a bunch of movies from fucking Boston, you know.
SPEAKER_02So uh with Boston guys, yeah, Boston guys. And that's actually a great segue because the first list I'll talk about is the departed.
SPEAKER_00That's your 10?
SPEAKER_02That's that's the number 10.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, I I'm good with that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean departed, right? It's it's my favorite Scorsese movie. Uh I think it is, you know, it's a remake.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's definitely better than the original. Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, it is a two to three hour long drop Kick Murphy's music video, and I love it.
SPEAKER_02It's fantastic. It's it's when you think about Scorsese, that's the movie, right? And and it's him at his best. I think that's why he it's the only movie he won a directing Oscar for. Um, the rat cut to black. I mean, there's iconic scenes throughout Departed. The X's. Exactly. X's is great. Right. So so there's just so much, so much I love about The Departed. Um, the next one for me is gonna be No Country for Old Men.
SPEAKER_00I can't I can't say anything about it because I haven't seen it.
SPEAKER_02You need to.
SPEAKER_00I I do need to watch it and I will uh after this episode. Um, but from what I've seen of Josh Brolin in that movie, I'm a I've become a big Josh Nolan fan recently. Yeah. So I think I'm gonna be watching a few of his movies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Josh Brolin's great. Um the the the thing about uh No Country for Old Men 2, we were just talking about the the three-hour long dropkick Murphy's. I I don't even know if there is a score in No Country for Old Men. Like it there there's essentially no music to speak of in this movie. It's just like it's this like existential dread. Interesting. Yeah, it's it and you'll and you'll see it. I mean, but it it's it's Cohen Brothers, right? It's it's very Cohen. I think it's uh it's Cohen Brothers at their most controlled, again, in the same way with with Departed and Scorsese. I just think it is uh it is the Hallmark when I think about the Cohen Brothers, the Hallmark Cohen Cohen Brothers movie. And I think that you know Anton Shakur is the villain in this movie, and I think he's just uh one of the scariest villain, one of the scariest villains ever on film because he is he feels so real and so cold and so calculated, and he's just uh omnipresent and always marching towards Josh Brolin's character in the movie. It's also, by the way, No Controlled Men, fantastic book. It's it's a really short read of a book. The book is better than the movie.
SPEAKER_00I think if it's a short read, I might I might do that. It's worth reading before before I see it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and I will say for for the movie, it does a really great job of retelling that book. It keeps the parts that are most important. There's a few things you know I I probably would have changed, but I'm not the Cohen brothers, and and I'll I'll trust that they know best. Uh the next one for me is gonna be Apocalypse Now. Apocalypse now, Vietnam movie. One of the greatest war movies ever. There's another war movie on here, which I'll talk about a little bit, but it is it is a masterpiece, right? You've got uh Napalm, helicopters, Brando, you know. There it is. There it is. I mean, you know, Brando doing his work. Um, and I think Apocalypse Now is is fantastic. It is uh, as I mentioned, one of two war films on my on my list. I don't know if it's gonna be this season of the podcast, but we are gonna do a war film.
SPEAKER_00Which I think I think that war movies is gonna be great because we see them differently. We see them so differently. Like already yours, you the the war movies that I've seen that you talk about are really in the thick of it. And minor, like, I love war dogs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, war dogs is good.
SPEAKER_00Having somebody on the opposite end of it, I think, you know, again, you know, the soldiers are in the background, and you I know that they shouldn't be. That's not what I'm saying, but there's something about it having that in the background where somebody's talking about it, you're like, fuck, dude, these guys are thinking about it wrong. You know what I mean? And that helps build, um, I think that helps build the anticipation to what's going on.
SPEAKER_02And you know what's what's interesting too about Apocalypse Now is it's now the second book on or second movie on my list that's based on a book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I figured you'd have a couple of those.
SPEAKER_02Heart of Darkness, we all read it in school. It's I as a book, I actually don't like it nearly as much as No Country for Old Men personally. Uh as a movie, I think Apocalypse Now is one of those rare movies that is better than the source material, right? Um the next one on the list is gonna be This is a seven this is seven, it's gonna be Dune. You knew it was gonna be there.
SPEAKER_00I didn't though. Yeah. I had no clue. Yeah because it wasn't on that first list. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Dune.
SPEAKER_02Like Dune one. Dune one. I like Dune one more than Dune Two. Yeah. Dune, so and and I'll tell you why. So I mean if we if we look here, I don't know if the film's catching it. Yeah, I gotcha. There, you know, I have all of the Dune books on the other.
SPEAKER_00You know what? It does make sense that that at least one of them would be be on your list.
SPEAKER_02It had to be there. Okay. And and the reason it's Dune 1 instead of Dune 2, although Dune 2 is also a very high, high for me, is that Dune 1 is a much, much, much better retelling of the book.
SPEAKER_00Right. And it's it's still uh just as boring.
SPEAKER_01Fuck, dude. It is great.
SPEAKER_02Boring as fuck. It it looks great. I think it's one of the one of the best looking films. And I mean, this is Dene at his best, right? One of the other ones, when I was thinking about which Denis movie to put on this list, the second one. Blade Runner 2049.
SPEAKER_00Any of them.
SPEAKER_02Because Blade Runner 2049 is, I think, the most beautiful movie made in the past 10 years. Um, but Dune ultimately gets there. Uh, I I hear you on it being boring, but the world building that occurs, I think it's the best world building since Lord of the Rings.
SPEAKER_00Before you get to your six, because I uh I do agree with you. Blade Runner looks great. I just rewatched it recently. But is it hard to make Neon look bad?
SPEAKER_02No, it's it's but but Denis makes it look better than me.
SPEAKER_00No, that's the thing, is like, dude, I've not seen a Denise movie that looks or sounds bad. They all sound fucking amazing, they look great.
SPEAKER_02That's his calling card.
SPEAKER_00But I d you know, I think that there he has three movies that, at least in my taste, look better.
SPEAKER_02Than Blade Runner.
SPEAKER_00Than Blade Runner.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I I think that Blade Runner is it's definitely definitely stimulating to watch, but I just think that there's others that look better.
SPEAKER_02For you, I'll say this. I'm almost 100% certain you will like Dune Part 2 more than Dune Part 1.
SPEAKER_00I need to watch it. I will, but it's it's one of those things where I'm like, I didn't like the first one. Why would I waste my time?
SPEAKER_02They're totally different movies. Yeah. They're totally different movies. Seriously. Um, and and that's why I don't like Dune Part 2 as much, is because it started veering off of the course of the source material. Gotcha. So number six for us is gonna be another war film. Okay. Blackhawk Down. Oh fuck. All right. It's the best, it's the best war movie ever made. And you know what's crazy? This is this I wow, it's I I actually didn't even realize that like all of these were book movies until now, but that is also another book movie. So it's a real it's a real story, obviously true story. Um I've seen it. It is a little bit different from the from the book. The book is a little more anti-war propaganda, and the the film is like straight United States government propaganda, you know, to make young men want to join the military. And let me tell you, it worked on me.
SPEAKER_00Like you know, there's there was uh probably as a as a youth, that is what got me thinking that's you know what's crazy is like I think a soldier man was I cannot think of any other guy besides myself that wouldn't say that Blackhawk Down is somewhere on their list. Like top 10, and even the departed, yeah. Yeah, the departed too, but but Blackhawk Down, like I I've got multiple buddies that are like, oh dude, Blackhawk Down.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Blackhawk Down sick. What can I say?
SPEAKER_00Was that number six? That's number six. All right, let's get to let's get top five. I gotta hear this shit.
SPEAKER_02Fight club. Hey, all right. Yep, okay. Yep, I can get down with that. I mean it's fincher. It's it's great. I think it's fincher's best. It is fincher's best. I think it's fincher's best. You know, it's it's one of the best endings ever cut.
SPEAKER_00I think that there's an argument for seven. There's definitely an argument for Zodiac. Seven is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Seven is a is an incredible movie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so seven, seven and zodiac are both 10 out of 10s, but fight clubs just dude. It and there is this. There it is, another book.
SPEAKER_01Like, it loves to read. What a fucking nerd. I do I do love to read. There's a lot of books that probably looks worse on me than it does on you.
SPEAKER_00You know the last book I read, dude? No, actually, I was about to lie. Uh the it's called The Fourth Monkey. It was a serial killer book, and it was really good. Uh, before that, I feel like the only book I could remember was like The Outsiders are holes.
SPEAKER_02Wow, yikes. Uh, so the next one is gonna be The Dark Knight.
SPEAKER_00Fair.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Um I from a comic book movie, this is also my number one comic movie.
SPEAKER_00It's the best comic book movie. Yeah, it's it's my number one comic book movie as well.
SPEAKER_02And and the thing about it is it it it kind of dragged and it broke a lot of new ground. I think since then comic book movies have changed a lot, but at the time, comic book movies like we'll talk about with Hulk 2002, I don't know, were a little bit more childish.
SPEAKER_00They I don't know if they've changed a lot. I just think that there's a big difference between Marvel and DC. Like obviously DC's a lot darker is trying to go into the Marvel, you know, right now with Superman and stuff. But I mean, uh the Batman, you know, it's a it seems a bit darker for sure for in that noir sense than the Dark Knight does. But I mean, if you put them like up to each other, you're like, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I and I think Dark Knight broke that ground so that the Batman could could do what it does.
SPEAKER_00Do you think that's a safe take?
SPEAKER_02The Dark Knight being a top ten?
SPEAKER_00Being the number one comic book movie.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I think it's a safe.
SPEAKER_00I think it's a safe take, but I also think that it's right.
SPEAKER_02I agree. Okay. I agree, obviously.
SPEAKER_00Wait, that's your that's your three? That's four.
SPEAKER_02That was four. Oh, okay, okay. That's top three then. Let's go. Um, and and I just want to say, I mean, and we can't forget with Dark Knight. I mean, he's ledger, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, I don't care what anybody says like that. Everybody's gonna say it, you have to. It is fan, it's a fantastic performance. It is. It's amazing. It is.
SPEAKER_02Next one for us is gonna be Lord of the Rings Return of the King. At number three. At number three. Yep. Alright. Yep. And uh I mean 11 Oscars.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, that's and they do it deserves all of them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh there's I'm a fantasy fan. I'm a Lord of the Rings fan. I've read all of the books. I've read the Hobbit books, I've actually read all of the books multiple times. I've even read the Simmarillion.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I wouldn't be now that you, you know, when Dune is on your list, so Dune and Lord of the Rings, kinda your list is really good for you, dude. Honestly. Like I'm I was I'm into it.
SPEAKER_02It it and that and that's another book? Yeah. God damn it. This guy's a good student. There's a theme here. Um the next one is gonna be Interstellar.
SPEAKER_00Again, fair. I can't argue with that, dude. It's I don't think, and we'll get into this when we when we talk about Nolan. I do not think Interstellar is Nolan's best. But you know, I also have it very, very high.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I've got I've got Interstellar's as Nolan's best. Um, I think it's his most emotional movie, for sure. I mean the the Cooper sequence, the the Tesseract, you know, the docking sequence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the docking sequence is 10 out of 10.
SPEAKER_02Do not go gentle, right? I mean, there's there's so much there. Yeah, you want that.
SPEAKER_00Everybody wants that said at their, you know, just press play on a CD player and have that play at my funeral.
SPEAKER_02I'll be okay. Right, exactly. Number one.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Inglorious bastards.
SPEAKER_00Shut the fuck up, dude. Inglorious bastards is your number one movie.
SPEAKER_02Tarantino's peak movie. It does everything right. The opening farmhouse interrogation is the best 20 minutes.
SPEAKER_00Inglorious Bastards is a good movie, bro, but it's your number one. Number one, dude.
SPEAKER_02I love it. I can't. I would have not I rewatched it recently, and I was like, I forgot just how fucking amazing this is. It's incredible. Dude. It all it also might help. We might have to cut this. You've got no.
SPEAKER_00You've got the trend ten, dog. Like you you've got the most testosterone filled fucking top ten ever. Like your fucking list should come with a blender bottle.
SPEAKER_02Holy shit, dude. No blender bottle on the table right now. Maybe we'll break that out later. Good god. Get me the protein bump.
SPEAKER_00Whenever I oh fuck, dude. I I okay. I knew Inglorious Bastards Ronnie List was on the first list that I saw that you made, but I didn't I do I would not have guessed. Number one. Maybe five, top five for sure, but I would not have guessed that it was your number one.
SPEAKER_02It's the only it's also the only Tarantino film on this list. Which is Pulp Fiction was the only one that was close. We'll we'll talk Pulp Fiction a little more uh next episode.
SPEAKER_00Garbage.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. Okay, bud. But uh yeah, and Glorious Bastards, number one, man.
SPEAKER_00Alright, dude. Alright, is it cool if we get into mine? Let's let's go into it. Alright, so at my 10th spot, I have Zodiac. Okay. David Fincher. Um, it is the it's the best serial killer movie I've seen besides Seven. That's I wouldn't put Seven on my list because again, Zodiac gives me that feeling, dude. I I get more dread out of Zodiac than I do seven. Like, yeah, you see the victims and stuff like that in Seven, but Zodiac just gives me this feeling of like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02Kind of that unseen versus seen part that we were talking about.
SPEAKER_00Right. And the investigators are leading the trail. In Seven, obviously, it's a lot more coordinated with that villain and that serial killer. But Zodiac is uh if we're talking about like biopics, which I also I'm a big fan of biopics, mainly not music biopics, even though I'm a big music guy. But I Zodiac for me, I think is again, it's not Venture's best, but it's probably my second favorite. Okay. Number nine. It's a book. Got a book on here. Uh well, I guess Zodiac's a book. Zodiac's a book. There you go.
SPEAKER_02It's also it's also a true story.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I never I never read the fucking book.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm not surprised.
SPEAKER_00But uh, yeah, number nine, uh, The Green Mile. Okay, dude, I love The Green Mile, such a good fucking movie. I and sometimes, like honestly, I forget about it, and then I'll rewatch it. I'm like, oh my god, dude, this is one of my favorite fucking movies. And you know what, you know what it is too? Is uh I'm not really high on Shaw Shank. I know a lot of people are, but I would say out of Stephen King adaptations when it comes to like the prison format, I love these characters in the Green Mile. I like all of them, you know. Yeah, you want to fucking hate Wild Bill. You're supposed to, but dude, that performance is also really great. And I think it's one of Tom Hanks's best, too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that's I it sounds like I need to rewatch Green Mile because it's definitely one that I've forgotten about.
SPEAKER_00It is longer, it's it's a long movie. Don't feel the runtime at all. You just kind of want, even if you do, you're just like, no, dude, I'm finishing this. All right. Number eight, I have fight club. I uh I I I tweaked this list a lot to kind of be, you know, my top 10 as of now and like where I sit. I love Fight Club, dude. The the twist is fantastic. I think that you know, I I've heard a lot of people say that it is not crazy close to the book, but the vibe gets right. I don't know how true that is because I haven't read the book. All I know is that the pacing is good, it's a 10 out of 10 movie. Edward Norton is usually not an actor that I'm particularly fond of in everything that he does. There's a couple of his performances that I do really like. This is my favorite one, and Brad Pitt as well. I mean, he did this after seven, yeah, which is crazy, dude. Like you can tell that he got just better. Or maybe well, yeah, yeah. He just got it, just seems like he's so much better in this rule, and you he's cool, like fucking really cool. And um, yeah, I I think Fight Club's 10 out of 10.
SPEAKER_02And and and I have read the book, it's totally different from the book, really, yeah. But it's it's trying to do something different than the book, and it does it, it does it exactly the way it needs to.
SPEAKER_00All right, well, so for I think I'm on seven. Yeah, my number seven, I have goodwill hunting. Okay. I think that there are some problems with goodwill hunting, yeah. Um, as far as performances go in some areas, uh, but I mean, you gotta think Ben Affleck and um Matt Damon wrote this, and uh the performance by Robin Williams, and I'm gonna say this, and I don't know if anybody's gonna agree because it's completely different characters. Robin Williams' performance in character in Goodwill Hunting is just as good as Joker in the Dark Knight. Wow. Just as good. I fall in love with Robin Williams in Goodwill Hunting.
SPEAKER_02That is a hot take.
SPEAKER_00It I bet it is, but I feel really strongly about it because I think that when I think about Goodwill Hunting, yeah, I think that most people will think about the bad things about it, uh, which there aren't many. I'm not gonna say that there's a lot, but um, I also have a thing for these tormented characters that try to hide the fact that they are tormented in everyday life, and I also love the character that's on the side of them that kind of tells them that you don't have to be that way. Uh, I think I resonate with that a bit. Um, number six, I have the aviator. Okay. So Scorsese, it's it's a biopic about Howard Hughes. I always come back to it, dude. I love it. It's long, it's it is very long. It's but it's another one where like if I don't finish it in one day, I'm gonna finish it. Like the next, it's going to be the thing that I finish. Leonardo DiCaprio, I dude, his performance in the Wolf of Wall Street is phenomenal. It's not better than his performance in the aviator.
SPEAKER_02I can get behind that.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Number five is The Breakfast Club.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I knew this was coming.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I have much to say about it. John Bender is one of the best, probably top three coming of age characters in all of cinema. Um, to compress this story into one day is uh the fact that more people don't talk about it is criminal. It is one of the best movies ever made.
SPEAKER_02It's just such an enjoyable watch. Yeah, it is. It makes you feel good. Yeah. It also takes you back, you know, somewhat, especially if you were a little older than us.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think it goes a little bit with my theme. I think that everything has a little bit of a coming of age thing. Like Zodiac, you're dealing with Jake Gyllenhaal, who's gotta learn that never not everything gets solved. Um, Paul Edgecombe in the Green Mile, he's gotta, he's gotta deal with the fact that you can't save everybody, even even people that are extremely gifted. Fight Club, you know, Edward Norton, not much to say there. Goodwill hunting, you're dealing with Will.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's definitely a theme here.
SPEAKER_00The aviator is, I think that's the least one that isn't. You know, you just got somebody that is just a phenomenal brain just rolling, you know, through just but he's eccentric, he's very eccentric. He is very eccentric, and I think that that's where Leonardo DiCaprio got to have a lot of fucking fun with that movie. Uh, and then The Breakfast Club, I think it's one of the best coming of age movies of all time, and they do it in a day. Yeah, all right, top four. You're not gonna fucking like this, dude. You're you're gonna, I think you'll like four, but it'll veer off. Number four is The Judge, dude. No, The Judge is great, bro, and it's underrated. I know I was told I was cannot be a top five movie, dude. Yeah, it is, dude. Well, no, no, no, no. These are my personal favorites, bro. I'm not I'm not going through best movies ever made. I know that there's again problems with it, but no, the judge is is top four. I love it. I always come back to it. It was when I saw it, I knew it was gonna be on my top ten.
SPEAKER_02That is wild. You have you have to be one of dozens of people.
SPEAKER_00I guarantee I am because not a lot of people have seen it. That doesn't mean that it's bad. Haven't you? You saw it with me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was with you. I thought you liked it. I mean, sure. Yeah, I liked it.
SPEAKER_01I thought you liked it.
SPEAKER_00Did I ever for a second think it was a top 10, let alone top five? It's my top ten. I dude, I introduce everybody to that movie. Like I fucking love it. The performances between between Robert Downey Jr. and Robert De Vault are just fucking amazing. The fight that they have in the kitchen brought me to fucking tears. Robert Downey Jr.
SPEAKER_02It's an emotional movie, it's a real movie.
SPEAKER_00It's very real, and it also has that kind of you know element of a mystery, the killer and who is it? And you know, Robert Downey Jr. has to defend his dad because he's an all-star lawyer and his dad's a judge, and they don't get they don't get along, you know. And I think that that's something I resonate with too, you know. Um, so I think that no, I I I I've had it on my top four for a while. I love that movie. All right, top three. My three is what's eating Gilbert Grape.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Another one doesn't know. It is no no again, it will never not be on my top ten.
SPEAKER_02What's that Tropic Thunder? You never go full retard, right? Something like that.
SPEAKER_00No, dude. No, shut the fuck up, bro. Leonardo DiCaprio's performance in this, it's the first movie I ever saw him in. Ever. So then when I saw like Titanic, I was like, wait, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02He's not a retard.
SPEAKER_00That's what I was saying. I was like, dude, why what the fuck? He's not he's not mentally challenged. I swear to god, I thought that. So his performance is great. He should have won an Oscar won an Oscar for it. 100% valid.
SPEAKER_02The story is the fact that he won an Oscar for Revenant instead of guilt insane.
SPEAKER_00The the the the fact that he won an Oscar for the Revenant uh besides multiple of his movies, yeah, is crazy. I'm a bit Leonardo Capra's my favorite director. Uh not director, the actor, my bad. Um yeah, what's he a director?
SPEAKER_02Is Leonard?
SPEAKER_00No, no, he's produced shit, you know, but I don't think he's a director, but he is my favorite actor. But what's eating Goober grave? Like even Johnny Depp, he's a tormented, yeah. He's a tormented character.
SPEAKER_02That's that's one of Johnny Depp's best. It might be it is Johnny Depp's.
SPEAKER_00Why the fuck are you laughing at me for having him a top three? I guess it's not top three movies. Yes, it is, dude. For me, Johnny Depp can't be a top three. I know, yes, he can. No, Johnny Depp's Johnny Depp. No, dude, Pires of the Caribbean is one of the best movies ever made. The first one. One of the best movies ever made.
SPEAKER_02I don't know about no the best movies ever made.
SPEAKER_00No, you're fucking tripping. You're tripping. But no, what's he didn't go for grape is great. Yes, it's a small story, it's a very small scale, but it makes it makes me feel big. Like it makes me go, wow, you know, like especially with those performances, you know. Also, like I was about to make a joke. Like, it made me think about my older brother, and then I'm just hard brother. I think there's some some you know, emotional real life stuff. There definitely, my mom showed me this movie, you know. My mom was like, Oh, you should watch this. And it was probably because I was like Pirates of the Caribbean came out and stuff like that, and Johnny Depp. I liked Edward Scissor hands a lot. Um, so she showed it to me. I was like, dude, this is the best. Like, I love it. It there's a lot of emotional core to that movie that I think matters. Top two. Number two is Anger Management.
SPEAKER_02Anger management, yeah.
SPEAKER_00What is that? It's Adam Sandler and Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson Nicholson, dude. The funniest movie I've ever fucked on. It is it is funny, it's hilarious. Jack Nicholson's performance in Anger Management is still top tier with the rest of his performances. It's a comedy phrase. And here's the thing is one of the things that kind of bothers me, it doesn't bother me. I mean, it's your list, but what kind of like got me about your list is like, bro, why where are the comedies?
SPEAKER_02Comedy can't make a top 10 for me.
SPEAKER_00What the fuck are you talking about? No, dude, that's that's not okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, comedy can't make a top 10 for me.
SPEAKER_00What?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, there's there's no comedies that are made well enough. My top 10 list is all cinematic masterpieces, man.
SPEAKER_00You've got fucking Blackhawk down on your fucking list. No, dude. Absolutely not no, it's not. I think that comedies get a bad rep. They don't get taken seriously because the people making them don't take themselves seriously.
SPEAKER_02Don't get me wrong, there are good comedies. And Anger Management is a good comedy, right? But it it just can't be a top 10. I'm not saying I'm not saying that it's you also notice there's no horror movies in my top ten. Yeah, I think that's crazy. And and I think that's another thing, like horror movies can't really get there. The only comic book movie that got there was Dark Knight. Most comic book movies just can't make a top 10 for me.
SPEAKER_00I don't necessarily think that a horror movie is excluded because like on my top 10, there was a couple things that I left off before I get to my one. I left off The Elephant Man, which I think is one of the best movies ever made. Yes, it's in black and white, but it's one of the best movies ever made. I left off Toy Story. You know, why can't kids' movies be on there? Toy Story is one of the best animated movies ever made. Literally.
SPEAKER_02I can agree with that.
SPEAKER_00Okay. The Shining. That was the horror movie that I almost had on my top.
SPEAKER_02The Shining is the only horror movie that I would consider.
SPEAKER_00Putting on your top tip. Putting on the top tip. Gotcha. Okay, my number one. And I don't know if you've seen it. If you haven't seen it, I think that you should. My number one movie of all time, personal favorite, is The Man in the Iron Mask.
SPEAKER_02Another Leo movie.
SPEAKER_00Another Leo movie. Yeah, I've got three on here.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00The Man in the Iron Mask. Its story is so much fun. It's so compelling. Leo does his best performance in any movie that he's ever been in.
SPEAKER_02Because he's two two of the characters.
SPEAKER_00Not just because he's two of the characters, it's literally because of one scene. We were talking about characters you love to hate earlier. Okay. Who were we talking about?
SPEAKER_02Characters you love to hate.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because you were talking about one too. Anyway, Leonardo DiCaprio is the king, as King Louis, I fucking hate him, dude. You're like, dude, you're horrible. He's horrible. Yet when he gets face to face with his twin brother, who he's locked away in a horribly grotesque prison, encapsulated in an iron mask, when he finally confronts him, because the whole story is that you know the three musketeers go and get him, go get his brother out of a prison, right, and try to swap him because he's hor because of the King's Horror movie. Yeah, exactly. When he's confronted with him, he said, Why would you do this to me? And then he has this part where he, you know, they're trying to convince him to like have mercy on him, you know. Even his brother's like, dude, just kill me. Like, just please don't send me back over there. You can, you know, just kill me. And he has a line where he is telling his brother, You're gonna go back to the prison and back into the mask that you hate. And his mom tries to stop him, and he's like, She's like, Louis, stop. And he's he yells, wear it until you love it and die in it. And the way that Leo's it's the best acting performance I've ever seen in my life in those couple seconds. That performance, that whole scene, I could put that movie out of 10 out of 10 just for that. It is the I think it's the only thing on my on my list that is technically like that far back of a period piece. And dude, I just love it. I think it's fantastic. I haven't seen it. You should watch it, dude. Like, there are some things where you're gonna be like, oh, well, this is you know, it it seems like this should be more grand of scale. Um, if they were to make it today, you know, it's in France, almost nobody has a French accent, you know, like even Leonardo DiCaprio, he just speaks how he speaks. But it was also the 90s, so we're gonna give it, I'm gonna give it a break for that. So yeah, Man of the Iron Mask is my my number one. And that's my top 10.
SPEAKER_02And you gave me shit for Inglorious Bastards as a number one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, dude, you got the trend 10. I told you. You're not wrong. It's it's very like when I hear yours, I I'm like, all right, we gotta go get a pump before we watch these.
SPEAKER_02I was I was thinking about it. I was like, man, I don't know if we can go into this without uh getting a little upper body day in before we before we get into it. So obviously you think that my takes are bad. I don't I don't I wouldn't say you know they're terrible. I think they're questionable. Okay. Certainly. I think that if you look at my top ten, and I and I'm interested, I'd love to hear in the comments uh whose top ten resonated more for you.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, of course, men are gonna be like, oh yeah, dude, I fucking love Black Hawk Down. Everybody get your fucking all the men get your fucking socks for for Black Hawk Down.
SPEAKER_02Fucking hell. But you know, I I'd I'd say this, right? So like let's look at three of your your all-time favorites, uh, Gilbert Grape, Man of the Iron Mask, the judge. How many, how many greatest films ever made list? Do you think those are on?
SPEAKER_00That's not okay, but wait a second. This isn't see, this is where this is where you're you're getting it wrong because it's not the greatest films ever made list.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00It's not what it is. It's top two personal favorites, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then that's where it comes in, right? I think that a lot of these are you know the move their movies that got you at the right age, they have the right themes for you. I think mine's a little bit more objective.
SPEAKER_00Dude, before yesterday, Jaws was on my list and it was number two. Yeah. Jaw, and I I I I kind of hate that Jaws isn't on my list, but I was trying to be a little bit more fair to personal favorites because Jaws is one, I bet it's out of three, like the top three best movies ever made. Probably. Right up there with if those are the best movies ever made, you're wrong. Like you're taking nothing into consideration. Mine? Yeah. Where the fuck is Back to the Future, dude? Um, back to the future.
SPEAKER_02Live high for me.
SPEAKER_00Dude, that is the fucking hottest take ever.
SPEAKER_02It's it's a fine movie, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's fine? It's fine.
SPEAKER_02It's it's not Back to the Future. Like, if I were to if I were to rate it like off. It's a perfect movie. 3.5.
SPEAKER_00No, fuck the fate. Are you being sarcastic? Are you joking? No, dude, it's a it's a 3.5. No, it's not. Back to the future is a 10 out of 10. Oh, I think it's fine. No.
SPEAKER_02We'll we'll talk about this on it later.
SPEAKER_00Oh god, dude. Well, to get into takes, let's get into defend it.
SPEAKER_02Let's let's go to this defend it, because uh, you know, for those that are listening, um, I think they're gonna agree more with my top 10 for sure, and I think they're definitely gonna agree more with my take on this one. But go ahead. Go ahead. Let's let's get into it.
SPEAKER_00All right, so defend it. Each episode, one of us picks universally unpopular movies, and we defend why we like them and why they're actually good. For this first episode, I have the first defend it, and I'm gonna defend Hulk 2003, directed by Aang Lee, starring Eric Bonna. I think that this is an amazing comic book movie. Okay I think and my rating for it is, and I changed it because I had it at a 3.5. Um so 7 out of 10. I now have it at an 8 out of 10. I think that this got overlooked for the wrong reasons. I think it got overlooked because of Spider-Man. Spider-Man had just came out, and Spider-Man 2002 by Sam Raimi is arguably one of the best superhero movies of all time. Right. It is the reason, it's mainly the reason where we're at today. And I think Hulk got overlooked because it wasn't made the same way. It was made as an emotional drama, and I think that that works for the Hulk. As you can see already with my list, I I cherish characters that are tormented. Hulk is not a hero. If he is, it's by accident. That's the original, like that's that's how I see Hulk. When when when Bruce Banner turns into the Hulk, it's an accident. He doesn't want it to happen. Right. You know what I mean? And what we fucking have now, god damn, it was atrocious, dude. It's atrocious.
SPEAKER_02I can agree with that.
SPEAKER_00The score that score is fucking awesome. It's probably again a lot of people are gonna be like, oh, what about the fucking Avengers? I don't like the Avengers score. I I think it sounds kiddie. Right. Hulk 2003 has an amazing score. It's also by um Danny Elfman. Did a great job. Score is good. Now, there are problems with Hulk, obviously. It's really long, and there's a lot of stuff that could have been cut out. A really good amount that could have been cut out. But let's talk about the story itself. The story is good. You know, uh a dad experiments it on himself and his own kid. And that is what creates this biological reform in Bruce's DNA once it's exposed as an adult to gamma radiation, turns him into the Hulk. And I think that that's I think that that's a good story, dude. It makes a little bit more sense than just oh, I was, you know, at an atomic bomb site, now I'm the Hulk. No, that's not true. Then everybody would be the Hulk. What's so different? This is why it's different. I think that that story is really, really compelling. I think that that emotional dynamic that's going on, how they're butting heads throughout the movie is is really good, and Bruce doesn't know what to do with it. I also like the fact that I think that there's a problem with Eric Bonner's performance. Although I do think Eric Bonna is a perfect pick for Bruce Banner. The Hulk itself. All the transformations are good. I have one problem with the transformations. The indicator with the green eyes. When like in Lou Ferrigno, like I because I dude, I love the TV show from the 70s, Lou Ferrigno and Bill Bixby. Every time that he was gonna turn into the Hulk, his eyes turn green, and that's what in like ominous music play. That's how you knew he was about to turn into the Hulk. Right. That's the only thing that I wish happened during the transformations that didn't. Although I do still think the transformations are good. I think the Hulk looks really good. I think he has the best design out of every Hulk that we've had so far. Interesting. He looks really good. There are times where the CGI gets funky. Yeah. It's also 2003. There's a lot of CGI funkiness in Spider-Man as well. But there are times where he looks really fucking good. Like when he is at the lab and his dad comes up to him and touches his face, dude, he looks real. He looks so real. You can see the pores and the sweat in his green face. He looks so good. Moving on towards it as this progresses, all the fucking battle scenes are awesome. There's nothing wrong with the battle scenes, dude. Yeah, okay, there's motion capture that's a little bit off for sure. Again, it's 2003. The battle scenes are good, specifically the last one. The last one is awesome. I think that it's really cool, and I wish it was done earlier. I'm I think it's really cool that the dad ends up because it wouldn't make sense if he didn't become something.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00But he becomes absorbing man, right? And I think that that's good. I wish it happened earlier. Like I wish that there was more fights between them because that last fight was fucking awesome. I also like where it ended up. Now, I it obviously set it up for a sequel. We get a line that's technically from the show where you know, in Spanish he says, Don't make me angry, wouldn't like me if I was angry. Um, and then the eyes turn green. So it's the one time in the movie that we get that. And I'm fine with that. I also rated it so high because it stuck with me after. And a lot of it has to do to nostalgia, you know. Like I saw that very young. Uh, and I don't know, bro. I don't think I don't think it's bad. I think that a lot of people just remember it being bad. And when you re-watch it, you're thinking about all those things. Oh, this is really long, and this, that, and the other, and you're thinking about all the problems. Like when homeboy gets blown up, the other villain, and it's like freeze. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. That's obviously fucking bad. It's a choice that shouldn't have been made. Yeah, yeah, should not have been made.
SPEAKER_02Atheon, Raytheon. Yeah, pretty funny.
SPEAKER_00It's I just that yeah, there's things like that throughout the entire movie. I can overlook them. It's a comic book movie, and it looks like a comic book movie, and I think they did a really good job with it. Another thing is wait, did I say it was nostalgia?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah, yeah, nostalgia plays a part.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's good. I think people are gonna I I hope that people start to revisit it because the Hulk that we have right now, again, brand new day looks good. I hope that they they do what they're saying that they're gonna do and what it's looking like they're gonna do in the trailers. But since the first five minutes of Infinity War, Hulk is garbage. Hulk is garbage. I do not think Edward Norton's is better at all. Like it's an homage to the TV show, which is fine. I still like it. It's a Hulk movie. Hulk's my favorite comic book character besides Batman, but I would still say Hulk is up there for me. I like him in the Avengers, I think Avengers 1 is really good. It's a good take on Hulk. Age of Ultron is okay, and then Infinity War is one of my favorite is one of my favorite comic book movies. I think it's great. But why do they make Hulk impotent? Like he just can't be Hulk the entire time because Thanos kicked his ass. No, Hulk wouldn't do that. Hulk would continue to try and beat that motherfucker's ass. So, Hulk 2003, I think, is the best Hulk movie, and I think that it is top five comic book movies of all time. I just think people need to revisit it with more of an open mind.
SPEAKER_02So I I came into it uh with an open mind. Uh I'd watched it I don't know how long ago, but it it had been a long time. I didn't really remember it that well. But on rewatch, which really felt like a first watch. Two out of two out of uh five, four out of ten for me. And I I agree with a lot of what you said. Four? I agree with a lot of what you said.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, uh any anything that you say isn't gonna surprise me. I know a lot of people don't like it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and here's the thing. I I think it's a great it it almost feels like an art house film. It it doesn't really feel like a blockbuster in the same way that a lot of the you know, especially the MCU. I mean the MCU are you're you're also dealing with Anglee. Right, and and Anglee does, I think Aangley did a good job doing what Aangley does. I think it didn't translate as well as Medium. I there's a lot of things I do like about this movie, honestly. I I think the comic book editing works, actually. I think it it's it's weird, but in like a way that I can get behind, you know, I think it does feel more like a comic book.
SPEAKER_00Well, when it first came out, I bet a lot of people didn't like that because be like being a comic like being into comic books and being into comic book movies still wasn't that popular.
SPEAKER_02And I think there's a lot of things that it does well. You know, I think I think Engley took a few swings. I think the comic book style editing was inventive and new, and it it feels more like a comic book movie than almost anything else in the genre. I agree with that. Uh I think the the core of it, the psychological trauma, the origin story. I the the opening sequence, you know, those like opening credits. What a new thing goes on for a really long time. Really long time. Really long time. I struggled to stay engaged, but when I was engaged, it was good. Um, I think the anti-war it was really timely, right? It's 2003, the Atheon Raytheon stuff, uh, you know, the the desert base. Nobody dies. Nobody dies. Even the guy who gets swung to the ground in a helicopter.
SPEAKER_00Even the one uh like remember he chews off the missile and he like spits it at him, the whole helicopter blows up, and like two seconds later the guy's still like, hey, we're all good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Some some interesting stuff there. I think the casting was good. I think Bana was a good Hulk. I agree with you. I think he could have been a good Hulk. Uh Jennifer Connolly. I think the ro the on the flip side though, I will get there right now, is the romance felt incredibly half-baked between Jennifer Connolly and I think that there was a lot of stuff in the romance that we didn't need to know. Yeah. Like, oh, we just broke up, you know, who cares? Yeah, who gives us what? Um, and then uh Sam Elliott as as the general was the perfect caster. I mean, he he played that perfectly.
SPEAKER_00Even with the really high clipped mustache. Yeah, I mean it looked it looked like absolutely perfect.
SPEAKER_02But the the part where I disagree with you uh and and what really killed it for me is it just wasn't enjoyable to watch. I think the the art house, you know, it it felt like an art house movie that there was some some external influences made it need to be a blockbuster and need to be a little bit more exciting, and the action stuff was just happy. Well, you know that this mutant poodle fight.
SPEAKER_00I'm not really upset about the mutant dogs. No, it was terrible. No, I don't think it's that bad. It was bad. You need to have monsters in the movie. Yeah, the the mutant poodle was was terrible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, maybe the poodle was a bad choice, but not even just the poodle, the dogs in general, man. And then and them just like exploding into green dust. And yeah, that that whole interestingly, that whole sequence, you know, I watched on my old Led TV. It was so dark. And I don't mean that in a good way, it was just it was dark. The the yeah, the lighting on it was not right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you have to watch this like in pitch black to to get it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That was not good. And I totally disagree with you on the final fight. That final fight with his dad was awful. What awful. Like an electric cloud.
SPEAKER_00Nah, dude, I I'm not I'm not upset about it. I actually thought it was kind of cool to see it like that. It's and it's this big emotional thing that's going on. They bring back the score from the beginning, like even right before that, like when he goes to bite off the you know, electrical cable and he fucking becomes the badass looking, you know. And then the fight when he's turning into all this stuff, like again, yeah, I think like I said, I wish that he would have turned into him a lot sooner. So it didn't just look like he was becoming things like really rapidly. Again, I think that pacing is a is a big deal. I've said that about about this movie. Um, but when when when he's taking it all away, you know, all of his power or he thinks, and he's turning into the mushroom cloud, that's comic book stuff. You know, that's that is whole comic, is like, you know, the whole thing is, you know, his dad was working on the Manhattan Project, you know. So that that symbolism and that look is gonna carry on throughout the entire movie. The same with like the green and purple that you see on the screen all the time and and stuff like that. But I'm not upset about it. I'm actually glad that we got some. I wouldn't be I'd be I'd be a little bit lower on it if that scene didn't happen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So overall, cap it off. I mean, I think there were some great intentions there, there were some good ideas, but it it just it it wasn't it wasn't a fun watch for me.
SPEAKER_00So you're you're at a four or you're at a five out of ten.
SPEAKER_02It's it's a four leaning five, you know. It's kind of so okay.
SPEAKER_00Is that leaning? Is the leaning because of me?
SPEAKER_02No, no, you didn't you didn't you didn't the things that you said you liked, I like them. You like them too, okay. And then you also said some things that you liked that I think were absolutely fucking terrible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I think that there's that again, there's a reason that I like them more. Um I think people should okay, I how about this? When it comes to comic book movies overall, it's not the worst rated. No, it's not the worst comic book. Like this is much better than a majority, strong majority of the MCU.
SPEAKER_02Yes. We'll need to dive into this more in our our uh comic book movie episode. Should people revisit it? You might like it.
SPEAKER_00Fucking hell. Well, hey, listen, okay, how about this? I'm not upset at your score. Like the leaning five to me is actually good because I was originally at a seven. The real reason I bumped it up to finally I bumped it up to an eight was because it stuck with me. I keep thinking about it, you know, and I think that that's a big deal. Like if it's maybe that's nostalgia, but no, I don't think so. I I wish this movie was done better because if it was, it would be if all the things that I wanted out of it were done. And I think they're all there. You know, they're all there. Just needed to be maybe edited a little bit better. This also this movie also got stuck in production hell for like 10 years.
SPEAKER_02And that's exactly how it feels. You know, so it feels like it was a neutered Angley with some, you know, studio influence that was trying to make this a blockbuster and just did more.
SPEAKER_00But I think that's the problem, you know. If you would have let Angley just do whatever he wanted, it would have been bad. It would have been very bad. It would have been bad. If you would have let the studio do whatever they want with it, it would have also been bad. Incredible Hulk 2008.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It would have been bad.
SPEAKER_02That movie eventually came and it was also bad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but if they would have just, you know, stuck it, you know, Angley, studio, people that really care about Hulk. Again, I think everything is there. There's a lot that needs to be cut. Honestly, I think that just them cutting stuff out would make it better. I think that that would that would bring it up to that five for you.
SPEAKER_02It's almost a two and a half hour movie.
SPEAKER_00It's almost three hours, dude. Yeah, it's long, it's long as fuck. Um, but yeah, I I I can't change it, you know. I can't change my score over it. I'm at a I I think it's one of the best comic book movies ever made, in my opinion. Um, yes, there's problems with it. There's things that I would change. My my solid score, if somebody just on the street, like anybody was like, hey, what is your score, like real score of Hulk 2003? I would say 3.5 out of 5, 7 out of 10. That is realistic. I bumped it up to that eight because it stuck with me. It's the same thing I did with Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the original one. Like it stuck with me for weeks. So I was like, no, I'm giving this a higher score.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of great comic book movies, we got potentially a really great comic book movie coming this year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I two actually, right? There's there's a couple big MC.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I got um Spider-Man Brand New Day, which we've got tickets to at the end of the month, uh, and and Doomsday. I don't know. I'm kind of 50-50 on what I'm hearing about both of them. I think that we can get into that more on our comic book movie episode. Um, but yeah, I I I'm dude, I'm really excited for Spider-Man brand new day. But I just hope that they do what they what what they say they're gonna do with it.
SPEAKER_02And and also I these are not the movies I'm most excited for this year. That's that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00Me either. There's one.
SPEAKER_02You know, there's there's a couple movies that I'm definitely much more excited for. Um, as you could probably tell from my top 10 lists, The Odyssey is on there, right? Coming out in just a couple weeks here. Is that your most anticipated? Uh yeah, that's my most anticipated.
SPEAKER_00It is uh so out of the ones that we've talked about, you know, and we're gonna talk about werewolf, I assume, after this, it is my least anticipated out of my most anticipated. And here's why. I'm inside I'm excited for it because I think Matt Damon's gonna do awesome, and I love Christopher Nolan. I don't give a fuck about The Odyssey.
SPEAKER_02See, and that's and that's where you lose me, right? Because this is my most anticipated movie this year. It's actually probably my most anticipated movie in years, honestly. Um, I love the poem. I think that the Odyssey is one of the best books ever written. A poem? It's a poem, yeah. The whole thing? The Iliad, the Odyssey, they're both poems. That fucking book's this epic. They're epic poems.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so that's what I'm thinking about. I was like, oh, you know, the Odyssey. Christopher Nolan's gonna do the Odyssey. He's obviously gonna do amazing with it, right? Have you have you read the actual? I had to.
SPEAKER_02No, so did you read the actual book or did you read it in high school the abridged book?
SPEAKER_00It might have, I don't know. I read it in high school. You know, it's a whole six weeks thing that you have to do. It's worst six weeks of my fucking life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, see, and I and I disagree completely there. Uh, you know, the that that poem, The Odyssey, is the blueprint. Like you talked about heroes' journeys and and coming of age for you. I mean, that's the first one.
SPEAKER_00I know that, but okay, I know that, but it's kind of like Nosferatu, you know, or just because the original is the baseline, does it like art and art inspires art, and sometimes the art that they've made being inspired by the other thing is better. And I think absolutely, you know, and I think that that's one of those things where like I wasn't excited to see Nosferatu because I was like, why? You know, and it became probably my favorite vampire movie of all time.
SPEAKER_02I can agree with that.
SPEAKER_00So it's kind of like uh I'm not gonna sit here and bash on on reboots and stuff. Like again, I haven't seen the Odyssey yet. Uh I want to, I'm excited to see it, but I'm just I don't think I'm gonna walk out of it going, this is the most amazing movie I've ever seen. I don't think it's gonna end up being Nolan's best either.
SPEAKER_02I think it might be. I I I think it might be. I'm I'm interested to see what ends up happening. You think about time, the Odyssey, you know, Interstellar, Inception, right? These are some of Nolan's best works. He is one of the absolute best at working with time. The Odyssey is a 20-year journey.
SPEAKER_00I didn't know that. That makes it makes me a little bit uh that that uh that fills in a a pretty big gap for me.
SPEAKER_02It's it's a voyage home, right? Where they they were in Troy and they're going back to Ithaca, which is you know, Dysceus' uh homeland. Would it be good to rewatch Troy? I would definitely yes, Troy is the is the lead-in. Eric Bon. And Troy, I think, is an underrated movie. I think Troy's a Troy's one that a lot of people sleep on. Uh there's a good defendant for I think it's a great movie, and I think it would be a great rewatch going into the Odyssey because that's what happens, right? The Iliad is is Troy. And actually Troy is bigger than just the Iliad. The Iliad Iliad's the only one of those books that we have remaining. Of like, there's a series of of I think eight books uh by Homer, and uh the Iliad is the seventh, and the Odyssey is the eighth, and and the Iliad is the the very end of the Trojan War. And then you go into Odysseus's journey home, which takes twenty and it and it's like it's one of those weird ones where it's like I think Was it 20? Like, how how is this 20 years? Well, no one's gonna explain.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's that's fair. I didn't know that. I'm definitely gonna re-watch Troy now. We should probably watch it while I'm here. Yeah, that that's a good idea. While we're on the topic of directors that are potentially gonna put out their best movie, Robert Eggers with Werewolf, dude. You saw the trailer? I have one problem with it before I say it. But well, I'm gonna say this and then I'll tell you my problem so far. Robert Eggers is if he does what I think he's gonna do, or what I hope he does, he's made he's going to have made my favorite horror movie of all time. With this one, with this one, and he's going to have made his best movie out of his entire catalog. It looks so good. It does, so grimy, and so like, dude, you could tell those performances are already top-notch. Lily Rose Depp got a lot of shit for her performance in Nosferatu that I don't think she should have got. And even here, she looks so much better. Willem Defoe looks amazing, he's always amazing. Um, and and and Aaron Taylor Johnson, who I'm not a big fan of, dude, but over his last few movies, um, I'm like, wow, I really excited to see this guy fucking perform. Werewolf looks awesome. Here's my one problem with it. I don't know if you've seen this interview with Eggers where he says that there's more about like it's gonna be more of a slow burn. I like slow burns. You really build in that uncomfy, dreadful stuff. I I like that. He said something about his werewolf. I am more of a werewolf guy than I am of a vampire guy. Have only seen one or two movies where I think a werewolf is done correctly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00One of them being The Wolf Man with Benicio del Toro. I think that that's a really good, I think it's the best werewolf movie that we have, besides American Werewolf in London. I think that's a great movie. But this is more my speed for wanting a werewolf movie, right? But he said something that made it seem like he's only gonna, he's not gonna really have a werewolf. Like he it's gonna be like the folklore that's tied to the werewolf is a little bit different. Like what they thought it was back then isn't like what we think of like a lichen, but then they say lichen all over the movie, and I'm like, no, you have to show me a werewolf, you have to show me a lichen, and he shows it the right amount in the way that Eggers I will if he does show it the right amount. If you want to make me wait, you you made me wait for for for Orlock, the Orlock reveal. You made me wait like 30 minutes, you know, maybe a little bit longer. Orlock was in it before you actually saw what he looked like, right? I'm okay with that. That is even fucking better. That the character is in the scene, but you can barely see him.
SPEAKER_02That's what I that's why I think Eggers does so well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, even going back to Witch, right? Like Witch, the Witch, the Witch has like a couple minutes of screen.
SPEAKER_00And I think that that's why I'm so low on it. Like, yeah, there's a lot of dread there.
SPEAKER_02The witch is my favorite Eggers movie.
SPEAKER_00No, I I okay, and I can see why it's really great, and I think that there's gonna be more pieces of the witch in this in werewolf than there is Nosphoros. And I like that, but I want to see the fucking werewolf.
SPEAKER_02There has to be a werewolf. I'm sure there will be that.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure there will be. You know, real quick, just to go back to this, this is something that I really like uh that I didn't mention when we were talking about Hulk. That first transformation where you see him like crashing around and you can just like kind of barely see him going at it. I love that. Like, there's a sense of I'm watching this thing, I don't I know it's Hulk, but I don't know exactly what it is. You're seeing how it moves, and it's so like fast, and it's building so much anxiety and anticipation, right? That's what Edgers does really well, like that scene in Office. Faratu, where he first gets to the castle and he's very backlit, and you can just kind of see some features, and you're like, I don't want to see what this motherfucker looks like. He looks fucking terrifying. Yeah. I hope that he gives us that. I think that he will, dude. I don't think that Eggers would make a werewolf movie without showing us a werewolf. They are not referring to it as a werewolf, I don't think. I think that they're referring to it as Lycan, which I kind of like more. Um, but yeah, I think that he's really got if the trailer is the movie, because obviously they're not gonna show us the werewolf in the first trailer. Right. Um, they they they showed us like the start of a transformation, which was looked really good. But yeah, dude, if he if he does what I want him to do with the werewolf part of it, it's gonna be my favorite horror movie. It's going to be my favorite horror movie, it's going to be my favorite Eggers movie, it's gonna be my favorite monster movie of all time.
SPEAKER_02I think it definitely has that potential, you know, and and and that's I I I love Eggers. I'll just put it out there. Eggers is my favorite horror director, for sure. And uh I I think werewolf absolutely has the potential to be my favorite Eggers movie, so I'm I'm with you on all of those parts. I agree completely as well. Werewolves are way fucking cooler than vampires. Yeah, 100%. Werewolves have gotten nowhere near the the kind of treatment that they deserve in film.
SPEAKER_00Okay, wait a second though, because that's what I'm talking about. That's the same, okay. That's the same thing I've been talking about with with I love that we're talking about this movie, especially after I just defended Hulk. Because he's been treated like shit. Hulk has. They don't, yeah, they don't fucking dude.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the MCU Hulk is an afterthought.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And he shouldn't be.
SPEAKER_02He's one of the his neutered version with with when he couldn't turn transitional.
SPEAKER_00I mean, fucking stupid, bro.
SPEAKER_02Terrible, terrible choice.
SPEAKER_00That's the thing, is people like that's why I like Hulk 2003 so much, is because it's the only time that somebody actually fucking cared about him. The rest of them did not. Like, yeah, the Russo brothers did the first Avengers, I believe. Uh, don't quote me on that. Whoever did the first Avengers movies does enjoy Hulk and does care about him, but he was in an Avengers movie and he was done really well there. Since then, nobody's cared about Hulk except for Angle, and you're not gonna fucking convince me otherwise. And I think that this is Eggers is somebody that cares about folklore and these monsters, and this is my favorite fucking monster, dude.
SPEAKER_02I like the period piece element is gonna be I that's what I loved the most about Noseferatu. I thought the the the kind of the the period, you know, the gothicness of it was oh, you know, the castle sequences were great. Uh I think the pacing is you talked about a slow burn. I'm really interested to see how he does with pacing because that was my big knock on Nose Ferrative. On Nosferatu was the pacing of it. So if he if he can nail this, I I I yeah, it absolutely has the potential to be a number one horror film.
SPEAKER_00So the you uh because werewolf is my most anticipated movie of the year.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and uh for me it's it's right up there with the Odyssey. You know, I it can't quite be there just because again, so much uh so much to it with the original hero's journey and and Nolan being who Nolan is and playing with time, but one versus two, they the Odyssey has the potential to be a top ten movie for me ever. Uh if Werewolf is done right, you know, maybe it's the first horror movie that makes my top ten.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_02Maybe. Okay. Maybe I like it. We'll we'll we'll revisit it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we will. Well, Chuck. That was great. Great first episode, guys. Uh again, thank you all for listening. And uh that's the show. That's the show. That's how that's how they're gonna be run down. So what do we get? We got we got star gap, yep, empire. I'm a five.
SPEAKER_02I'm at I'm still at a 3.5. Still at a 3.5. Our top tens did get it. Yours is definitely more consistent. We shared a couple movies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we shared Fight Club. I think that's it. That's it, yeah. But but I that's that's good. I think that uh, yes, I do think that your top ten is more consistent than mine. I think that I'm fine with mine being scattered. Like I think that represents me a little bit better of the how much I love movies and the different movies that I do like.
SPEAKER_02So next week when you tune in, we're gonna get another star gap. We're gonna start off with another star gap. What's it what's it next week?
SPEAKER_00Um, I think we're talking about uh we're talking about Nolan next week.
SPEAKER_02Nolan next week. Yeah, so Nolan next week will be The Dark Knight Rises, I think. Rises. Is it it is it is rises is a star gap for us. Okay. Then we're gonna talk about Nolan. We're gonna get into our top Nolan films, rank those. And uh, I'm interested to hear from from the group uh in in the midst of it. Yeah, see what everybody thinks. Yeah, what do we think? What would you give Empire? Drop a number in the comments. What's the best one? New Hope? Empire? How's Star Wars rank for you? And uh, you know what else I'd I'd like to ask the community as well is uh give us another another film to defend. You know, I think there's some interesting one here. Make it a hard one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah, fair. Uh, and also it if anything that I've said, if you're an MCU fan or you're a comic book fan, if anything that I've said about Hulk makes you remotely want to revisit it, revisit it, rewatch it. See if you can see if you can see what I see, you know, and if you don't and you agree with Truck, then that's fine. I honestly I don't dude, I don't dislike your score. Yeah, I don't. I think it's I think four I think four out of ten for for Hulk isn't isn't a bad score. I think it says that this isn't a good movie, but it's a good comic book movie. Yeah, no doubt about it. It's a good Hulk movie. No doubt about it.
SPEAKER_02So we're bad critics. If you've ever if you've ever loved a movie that you struggled to defend, so are you, as it turns out. Welcome to the show. Looking forward to many more.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to bad critics, guys.
SPEAKER_02Bye.