From Firefighter to Healer: Rewiring Trauma and Purpose

Cat York interviews Ashley Dillard, a former firefighter and paramedic turned licensed counselor, hypnotherapist and podcast host, about her journey out of emergency services and into trauma-informed care for first responders, military members, and families.

The episode covers cumulative burnout, identity shifts, integrative approaches like clinical hypnosis, neuro-somatic work, and psychedelic-assisted therapy, and offers compassionate guidance on finding help, nervous system regulation, and healing through storytelling.

Ashlea also hosts her own podcast “Sit Around The Fire” which is a podcast for first responders, military members, families seeking healing, growth and connection.

For more information on Ashlea,her Podcast and to learn more about her coaching or hypnotherapy services please visit: ashleadillard.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Hello and welcome to the Call for Cat podcast, where we share honest stories of resilience

Introduction to Call Her Cat Podcast

SPEAKER_00 0:26

and recovery. I'm Kat York, and my mission is to hold a supportive, honest space for candid discussions on addiction, healing, and breaking the mold. Whether you are exploring sobriety, navigating family cycles, or working toward finding self-love and empowerment, these conversations are for you. Let's connect, heal, and learn what it means to truly redefine your story. As a gentle reminder, before I introduce our guest, Ashley Dillard, the Call Her Cat podcast is for informational purposes only. The views expressed by the host and the guests are their own personal opinions and do not constitute professional advice. Please consult as a licensed professional for any medical, legal, or psychological concerns. Now let me introduce you to our wonderful guest, Ashley Dillard. Ashley is a licensed professional counselor and a certified clinical and transpersonal hypnotherapist who spent nearly a decade as a firefighter and paramedic before answering her deep calling. She describes her own journey as the great dismantling, letting go of who she thought she had to become to be who she truly is. The journey lives in her work. With 5,000 plus hours of experience, an advanced training in clinical hypnosis, neurosomatic therapy, and psychedelic assisted therapy. She supports first responders, military members, veterans, families, and individuals ready for meaningful change.

Meet Ashley Dillard

SPEAKER_00 2:14

She practices in Loveland, Colorado, quick and virtually. Ashley offers a 30-minute complimentary session, which you can learn more about from her website, and the link to schedule that consultation will be in the show notes. Ashley also hosts her own podcast, Sit Around the Fire, which is a podcast for first responders, military members, families seeking healing, growth, and connection. That's enough of me talking. Let's talk to Ashley. Ashley, thank you for joining me today. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Kat. I'm really honored and blessed to be with you today. Did I miss anything? Did you want to add anything to your bio? I don't think so. I think you got it all. It's always interesting hearing it read back to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Like, yeah, but no, I it sounds like you got the full encompassing view.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

You have a pretty pretty unique journey

Becoming a First Responder

SPEAKER_00 3:15

as a firefighter and as a paramedic. What led you to want to become a first responder like that?

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Yeah, I wasn't one of those people that was grandfathered in per se, like where you know, my grandfather was a police officer, and then therefore it kind of goes down the line, like you see in a lot of families. Mine was very spontaneous and organic. So I initially I've always been drawn into the medical field. And initially, after you know, graduating, my plan was nursing school, which I started off into, but then decided kind of wasn't exactly the right fit or what I was looking for. And through getting to work with some of the local fire departments in helping their physical fitness and things like that, I got immersed into the world of fire and EMS. And that was really like the door opening for me of this is a really stinking cool job where it's definitely not the same job day to day. It's such a diverse thing that that's what really drew me into it as I knew I've never been traditional in my whole entire life. And so I wanted something that was definitely outside the box and definitely challenging. And it really was just such an awesome, really, really fun career.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Because that's not only, I imagine, physically draining and taxing, but emotionally as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah, I think it I mean, they always they talk about it, right? And you're you're new and you're you kind of have that like starry-eyed approach to everything, and you hear some people talk about the emotional toll and what ends up happening, but I think you kind of put on rose-colored glasses in a way where you don't believe it, or you don't see it, or you don't pay attention to it. And for me, the real look in the mirror on the emotional toll didn't happen till the very end of my career, and even further when I got out of it, when I wasn't online anymore. I didn't really realize the profound impact all around that this job had on me in multiple different ways, from the mental side to the physical side to the relational side, kind of the whole expanse of it. I didn't really realize honestly, till I was more or less out of it or close to being out of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Was there one defining experience or was it more of like a cumulative effect for you?

SPEAKER_02 6:33

You know, it was really very cumulative for me. I mean, there was, of course, everybody has what we call like the Book of the Dead, where there's, you know, some really terrible calls and things that had happened. But for me, it was just a collection over time. So years worth of stuff piling up with a lot of those kind of calls, but then also a lot of very mundane calls as well, too, or running on the same, you know, individual six or seven times in a 48-hour rotation, or feeling just kind of that deep burnout and fatigue of like, are we actually making a difference here? Like, is this and so I think it for me was very, very cumulative over time. And it was very a slow burn, as I like to call it. Towards when I got toward the end of my career, I actually had a lieutenant who asked me like straight up, he's like, if something doesn't change, he's like, You're not gonna make it. Like, you're not like he could see how burned out I was that and just in the way that I talked, the way that I r responded, he was just like, Yeah, you were you're very, very burned out, and he wasn't wrong at all. But yeah, it was just that collection over time in the midst of all the other, you know, bigger and more traumatic calls that come up.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

What was that moment like for you when he came up to you and and said that to you?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

I knew he wasn't wrong. So I think it probably the peak of frustration is that, you know, like this is this is what I signed up for, this is what I want to do. Still loving aspects of the job, but just being so incredibly burned out that I didn't want to be there. Like I I wouldn't sleep good the night before I went to work. Obviously, like sleep is a gamble when you're there anyways. To just like feeling this like heavy, heavy weight of even being there, and then him kind of calling it out was just that reality check for me of like, you're right, either this will continue to be the next 10 years till I can fully retire from it, I'll just kind of become more and more salty, like many, many people do, or I have to like choose to advocate for myself and make myself a priority and make a different decision moving forward.

The Emotional Toll of First Responding

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Do they have a lot of resources available for first responders, like counselors or mental health professionals?

SPEAKER_02 9:27

They do, and it's gotten much better, I think, over and now I think in the last five gosh, since I've been out of it, I said the last five years or so. Man, stuff has really escalated in terms of resources and different kinds of modalities of therapy that are available. But for me, I struggled honestly with finding a good therapist, a good clinician. I think it's as a first responder, you're you just have a different kind of personality, anyways, and you have this a little bit of that dark-sided humor to you that can be really hard to find the right person that understands where you're coming from or knows how to sit with some of the stuff that we go through. And so I had a hard time finding that. And somebody I got lucky a couple of times, and hypnosis was one of the things that helped me personally a lot. But yeah, it was just it's hard to find that culturally competent, relevant person, but it is getting better and better, and there are a lot of programs showing up now too to help people as well, grants and different funding and things like that. But there's still a huge, there's still a huge gap, I think.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah.

Transitioning to Counseling

SPEAKER_00 10:52

When you made the pivot to being a counselor, to being a hypnotherapist, what was that journey like for you from going from such a fast-paced work to maybe a slower, more uh spacious work, I guess?

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah. It was very difficult. It was it took me several months to kind of get to make the decision. And I I was still in school while I was still online, so I was finishing my master's degree and doing my internship in practicum. And so I was already getting immersed into the world of counseling while I was still online as a firefighter, which was a very difficult, like two balls to juggle at one time because you never really get a break. So I knew that that wasn't going to be very sustainable in the long run to try to do both full-time and still take care of myself. But I wrestled with the decision to leave for a while and it like to had many, many conversations and really had to sit with am I okay like letting this chapter go and closing this season of my life? Because I worked really, really hard to get the spot that I did. And it it back in the day, I think it's changed a little bit now too, but it's still not easy to get a job in fire, particularly and EMS, and as a a female as well, too. Like you're all it just is a lot to get there, and it's a lot of training and a lot of everything. And so I had a lot of people that like were very harsh and critical, saying that I was throwing away everything and how could I make this decision? But I knew like down in my gut and in my heart, like I I had to, like I had to for myself, I had to for my relationship, I had to for my family. Like everything about it was there were no questions in my mind. It was just a difficult transition of letting go. And that's taken part of the the dismantling, right? Is taking time to let go of that identity that I had held on to for so long. And moving into the work I do now, I would say it's still equally as intense, but diff much different. So now it's sitting with people in whatever they're going through or whatever's coming up, and especially in the kind of work that I do, like this isn't the light, like having tea version of therapy. This is the heavy stuff that can be a lot. And so I've had to really, really learn and still learning how to best take care of myself in the midst of that and give people that space. But it really is such an honor and a blessing to be able to do this kind of work now and have the background that I do to just be there with people as they're navigating this stuff or they're having their own dismantling. And so yeah, I wouldn't treat it for anything. It's all played exactly as it needed to in the journey, and every single step has led to where I am now, and I'm really just grateful to do the work.

The Impact of Leaving Firefighting

SPEAKER_00 14:18

It's interesting that, you know, when you made this pivot, people were, you know, focused on what you were losing like career-wise. Do you feel that maybe they were missing or didn't see what it was costing you like emotionally and mentally and physically?

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yes, and I think kind of alluding to what I was talking about earlier is when you're in it, you don't really know anything differently. So this whole the whole mentality around, you know, being ultimate self-sacrificing, you know, your physical health maybe not being the best, your emotional health, your relationships, like all these things, substance use, all of that becomes very normalized. And so you don't, it's one of those things I compare it to, like you don't know you're sick when you're around a bunch of sick people. And so it that every everything of that that suffering is very like it's normal for the culture, so you don't know anything different. So then making the decision to leave in a lot of people's eyes was seeing like me throwing away this opportunity or the expectation that you work you know 20 to 30 years to retire. That's kind of the unspoken expectation that you're if you're not doing that, then like you're out of the norm kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah. Having been out of out of that field for a while now, how does your how does your system feel like how does your mind feel versus like when you were right in the trenches being a first responder?

SPEAKER_02 16:02

It's been very interesting. And it's been um and I laugh because it's still like a journey. That's kind of where the the dismantling came into place of how how do you get used to a different kind of life essentially, and working with your nervous system and your body in another element of where it's not constant fight or flight or survival all the time. To where I mean, I'm I'm still a work in progress and still working on even feeling safe enough to rest. Like it's just it's so deeply wired into our nervous systems when we're stuck in those survival patterns so long that you know, you can sit there and want to rest, want to take a nap so badly, but you just cannot. And so still like giving myself grace and compassion and still working with my nervous system to create that new default mode and like sense of safety to be able to rest or to be able to come out of that fight or flight. But I've noticed a lot of big changes in myself of even watch because I loved all the I mean, as much blood and guts, I would take it all. Like nothing ever fazed me when I was online. And then now days watching, like even watching the basketball game the other night, because of course I'm a Nuggets fan, and watching them in Minnesota. And when Anthony Edwards hyperextended his knee and you they showed it, I was just like, oh, like a whole body, like visceral response. And and I'm so grateful for that because I know like my brain is rewiring to what's actually normal and actually synthized back into being impacted by those things and not that just you know can continuous repetition of exposure over time that desensitizes your brain to that kind of stuff. So this is a big that's a big one that I've noticed in myself is just I really don't enjoy watching stuff that's highly like gory or a lot of that kind of thing. It does definitely impact me, which is just so different than the way it used to be.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah. I think a lot of us don't even understand all that first responders see on a day-to-day basis. No, because we'll see it in movies or we'll have an experience ourselves, but it's not you know 10, 12 hours a day, it's not seven

Resources for First Responders

SPEAKER_00 18:39

days a week. And with what with what first responders do, I can only imagine that that desensit desensitization is almost like a protective layer that your your mind just has to like a wallet has to put up. When you're working with someone who who has seen the things that you've seen and gone through, so which you've gone through. Where do you begin with with even like what's the first step in working with someone who's a first responder or military?

SPEAKER_02 19:15

The beginning always starts with the relationship. Is for one that you we have to be able to sit with one another and trust one another to go to these places that most of us have shoved down and packed away for a very long time. I hear the word compartmentalized like more than I could even count in my office. And so that it really has to start with the relationship, especially I mean, with everybody, but especially with military folks too, is because they've already had some exposure to therapy in some form or fashion, and it's not always been great for them. Like sometimes they don't get a lot of traction or they get a lot of help, or they just get this huge prescription list thrown at them. And so they don't have a lot of trust in therapy or trust in the process. And so that's where my work begins is just building rapport and starting with the relationship first, is like we have to create that safety. Your nervous system, your body has to start to feel that safety too, so that it will allow you to go to the places that you need to go so that you can get the work done, the transformation, the healing that you want to. Because it's a lot, I I mean, I would feel uncomfortable too, like just showing up to somebody's random office and then be like, okay, like let's go to the the depths of everything. Let's go see all the shadows. Uh, it's pacing and leading over time to get there. And that's why I always say, like, you can't rush this process by any means. Because sometimes people need to just sit there and we need to just have like a normal conversation first to see that we're both human beings and we both have this commonality in some form or fashion through life that we've been through stuff. And that's the key to the work, I think, is that relationship.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yeah. Do you think you mentioned it briefly that you know being a woman in in these professions adds another layer of complexity? Do you think it makes it do you think it made it more difficult for you to say, you know, I need to do something else? Because women we're supposed to nurture all the time and care. There's not really like a we're not supposed to have like an off switch or time to step away. Do you think it made it harder for you to step away from being a woman?

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Yes, I think that it was it was twofold there. I had the nurturing. Piece that not being able to kind of turn off or feeling trying to manage everybody else's things, being like a caretaker for lack of a better way to say it. But also like just the probably the more the perceived expectation of always living up to a certain standard. And so as a woman too, you have to everything is the same across the board. So all of your physical tests or expectations and performance are the same, no matter if you're, you know, the ex-NFL player or you're a five-foot woman. It's all the same. And so there's always an underlying like pressure to performance when it comes to like measure measuring up or doing what you need to do. And so I think that that is a big part of what plays into it, I think, for all females, is you just kind of always have this low-level sense of pressure and measuring up and making sure you can do everything that you need to do that adds a level of stress, honestly. I think is just kind of every time you are you pull into the parking lot or you're there, is you just kind of feel that inner turmoil, that stress all the time. And that's what I I also believe very much impacts us over time that kind of constant stress which leads to inflammation, which leads to other issues overall. And the female body in general is just different as well. Like our hormones are different, the way we respond, like everything is so different. It's just a totally different rodeo when it comes to being a woman and being

Building Trust in Therapy

SPEAKER_02 23:51

like in that kind of environment or in that kind of schedule or that stress demand, not discounting the guys either. But I think I just noticed it and I see it a lot too how impactful it is on such a global level for females.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Would you say that more of your clients are are men or women, or is it kind of like an equal split?

SPEAKER_02 24:17

I definitely have more males than females, which I laugh at sometimes because I'm like, that's just funny. But I'm glad for it too. I I really get excited when it's a lot of people who have never been to therapy before are never tried therapy, and I take a pretty straightforward approach to things. So getting to the roots of what's going on rather than managing a bunch of symptoms. And I think that's kind of if it's just the universe like draws that energy back to me, I don't know. Um, but yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot more male dominant, but I do have quite a few females as well, too, or even spouses too that I work with that come through in a huge variety of people.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Because I was looking on your website and you offer it's not just normal talk therapy that you do. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah. So it's kind of a term I coined or came up with to try to explain, like, okay, how is this different than regular therapy? Because I am I don't just practice regular therapy, but I kind of call it integrative psychotherapy. So I'm using all of my tools from my toolbox when it comes to working with somebody. So we do elements of hypnosis, we do neurosomatic work, so working with the nervous system in the body. We do, you know, and then some of the traditional stuff of you know working with the mind, like through cognitive behavioral therapy or emotionally focused therapy, where we're doing some different elements of that. And so it's this big synthesis of things coming together because I I never liked being put into

Integrative Psychotherapy Explained

SPEAKER_02 26:09

like a formula or a box to say, well, this is how it's gonna be done, because nobody's healing journey is linear and everybody is different. So we need different tactics to find what works best for you and come at this at all different levels. Because I really think one of the big missing links in regular talk therapy is the somatic, the nervous system piece of it. Because even for myself, I noticed when I would make a bunch of big mental changes or like really addressing some of these deep, limiting core beliefs, and then the nervous system is like, what the heck just happened on the other side, and wanting to go back into old patterns or old coping mechanisms because that's been survival the whole time, and so really working with both through the whole journey, mind and body together, so that as the big stuff changes, the nervous system still feels okay and still has the resourcing to go along with the changes as well. Because that's it's a huge missing piece, in my opinion, of the work is the nervous system, the somatic side of things, because it just you can't deny it. It just is it is the way that it is. And so my work is all inclusive of all the things, but it is like the heavier side of work. So I'm not a symptom manager. I don't it drove me crazy, like when people would come in every week or every other week, and we're still talking about the same anxiety showing up for the same thing, and I'd be like, why are we not getting anywhere? And so really finding the roots to things and clearing that out and clear helping again the nervous system side of things as well is what I really, really love to do. That's what my work is centered around. So that's yeah, I'm not like a tr quote unquote traditional therapist.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Well, I think you touched on something that's very important because talk therapy has its place, but if you come from a place of trauma or fight or flight, your nervous system gets so dysregulated that talk therapy seems to just kind of miss

The Importance of the Nervous System

SPEAKER_00 28:31

the mark sometimes. Like how can you talk when your system is so wound up and you have ruminating thoughts and you're you're anxious? And can you f can you talk a little more a little bit more about it? Because I feel like sometimes it's people have this view that it's just oh deep breathing or just meditation. So when you say you're we have we're you're you're you're working with a client to rewire their nervous system, what what is that take? What does that entail?

SPEAKER_02 29:02

First we have to look at what the actual behaviors are that are showing up. That's I think like if we were building a roadmap or tracing it backwards to see like what's actually showing up from where is most helpful, was most helpful for me, and I think really helpful for other people to look at okay, what's the behavior showing up? Is it the overthinking? Is it the ruminating? Is it that desire to think 10 steps ahead? Like kind of like not being present in this moment, but thinking ahead, you know, like what do I else do I have to do? And okay, now we know that we have a behavior in mind and we can know that that's coming from that flight nervous system reaction, which is that sympathetic foot on the gas pedal, stress hormones. We're looking at adrenaline and cortisol pumping through the system, is what's telling us is that the system is never coming down into parasympathetic, coming down into regulation. So it feels like it's in a threat state. So now we can take that behavior and start to wire it backwards to say, okay, what's the emotion coming from the behavior now? Is it anxiety? Is it panic? Is it fear? Whatever it is. Now let's look at the thoughts that are coming up first, because a thought always comes before an emotion or a behavior. So is the thought actually, you know, like I'm out of control, or I'm not doing enough, or I'm not, nothing ever works out for me, I'm overwhelmed. Now we can trace that back even further to the belief. So now the belief which sits in the core of the subconscious is telling us, I'm not enough, I'm not safe, I'm not lovable, I'm inadequate, I'm insecure, whatever it is. And now we have like a whole network to work with in. So as we address those beliefs through, you know, some of the other modalities like hypnosis and things, now we can work with the nervous system too to start to create that safety to where we use nervous system drills that actually work with specific cranial nerves or parts of the brain, parts of the body. And it's more breathing is very, very helpful, but it's more than just regular breathing. It's actually very specific kinds of breathing and/or constantly testing the nervous system to see what responds and what doesn't, because we're all different. And so I might tell you to do six-count breathing, and you do it, and it actually activates your nervous system rather than like downregulating it. So, and in that case, it's not a bad drill or bad way to do things, but it's not a drill to bring you back into parasympathetic regulated state. So we need to adjust it. We need to work with that's not going to fit your nervous system at this place in time. So it's a lot of testing and assessing through the nervous system. And you do it in real time, which is so awesome because the nervous system will give you immediate feedback. And so it's not one of those like take two and we'll see how it goes in a week. Like, we know then and there, like how people feel, and we connect that into the awareness of the body. So, what are you feeling in your body now when you're experiencing these ruminating overthinking thoughts? Like, is it your stomach feels sick? Do you feel pressure in your chest? Like, do you feel a sharpness in the back of your neck? Okay, let's go there and see what's coming up out of that spot, and then start to work with it from there as well. So it's a lot of getting people into their body and actually experiencing what it is that's coming up rather than just trying to press the mute button or you know, like normalizing the symptoms. It's getting very, very curious and becoming aware of what's coming up. And then we can start to work on it on all the other levels. So I know that's a lie. I threw a lot.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

No, no, that's great. I think it's important because like you said, it's not talked about enough, like at all. You're you're either whether it's your primary care or your therapist, it's not talked about. Medication has its place, but I think if you don't tackle the nervous system, I don't I don't know how much it's gonna help you,

Exploring Psychedelic Assisted Therapy

SPEAKER_00 33:36

you know? And something that you do that that I that I've read a lot about is psychedelic assisted therapy. And I was wondering if you could touch touch on that because that has the potential to really help people.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah, so there's so many, I mean, there's a lot of different things out there now, and there's a big movement towards getting a lot of stuff pushed to the front line so it's accessible for people. The way with psychedelics, what happens is it's basically like a big opening of the floodgates, essentially, of going into a lot of these things where it's showing you what's going on or what needs to be addressed and creating these massive windows of neuroplasticity. And that just means the brain's ability to change, which you have neuroplasticity for your entire life. So this whole mentality around, well, this is just the way I am, or I'm too old to change, is like that's not correct thinking because the neuroplasticity lit window literally is open till the day your brain is no longer functioning, and so you can change at any point in time. But the psychedelics, they're very interesting in the way that they each of them and different ones have certain neuroplasticity windows, and that's just the ability to change. So, for example, if somebody is working on no longer using a substance, whether it's narcotics or alcohol or whatever, is some these psychedelics can open up these neuroplasticity windows to allow the brain to rewire a new network so it's not going to these old ways of doing things, these old methods, these old coping strategies and these old patterns. But and they're all different depending on what whether you're looking at ketamine or you're looking at psilocybin or now like I'm again, those kinds of things. All the neuroplasticity windows are different. The biggest thing with the psychedelics is that it's, and I try to be so clear about this with people, is it's not a panacea. It's not just like, I'll go do the psychedelic and it'll fix everything for me. It's giving you the message, you need to go do the work after that. And so it does still require you to have to actually do the work on the back side of your psychedelics in how do you integrate this into life? How do you take these new ways of doing things and like experience stress in the world or in your relationships or whatever

The Journey of Healing

SPEAKER_02 36:21

it is, is they're really super, super helpful, but they still require a level of work on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah, it's not just you take it and everything is perfect and shiny. You have to it kind of you put it's a like a it's like a life jacket. You just have to learn how to swim.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and it's another tool, I always say like if we're fixing a you know, an engine on a car, we're not only gonna use a hammer, because that would make no sense. So it's another tool that you have that's accessible to use to work on whatever it is that you're working on, just like regular therapy, just like hypnosis, just like mindfulness, meditation, like all those kinds of things are all tools, and you have to be like diversified in what you're doing. It's a holistic approach to your healing, not just there isn't one thing, otherwise everybody would do it and there would be no more issues, right? So it's like it doesn't work that way. You didn't just get here overnight, and it's there isn't that big magic wand that just fixes everything overnight.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

No, and I and I imagine from the profession that you came from, you don't stop healing from it.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Is that a correct I would say like you're even from life in general, despite even what my career was, I'd say like you you have to be okay with your journey being a journey, and you have to be okay with this healing unfolding over time, and be just really grateful for that as well, too, is because you're unwinding so much stuff and this dismantling. I mean, it starts as soon as even before you're born, you start having beliefs and narratives and stories imprinted into your system. And so uh it's a small chunk of time, you know, your career, what it is, but you're dealing with however many years in before, because now you have generational issues, generational scars and traumas too. So I would say just being okay with it being a journey and not thinking there's some finish line that you're getting to, but just know that it's a one step at a time. Like, you know, the thousands, you know, journey of a thousand steps starts with one step. And just being okay with that without this expectation that it it has to end somewhere, it has to get somewhere because I just so far for me it hasn't.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

So I haven't met anybody that it has. So just being okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

No, and I think sometimes people like get into counseling, like, oh, fix this, you know, without realizing that you may fix that issue, but then what's the issue underneath it, or what's the root underneath it, and then you're like, oh man, like I am I am in this for the long haul. You know, this is not like a month-long thing.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yes. But looking at that as a gift, right? Is like you we get to experience this, like you as the unwinding starts to happen and the healing starts to happen, you really start showing up so differently in your life that you're like, okay, like let's do this. Like, what's the next layer of this parfait we're working on here? Is like you kind of get that excitement and you're that gratefulness behind it because you're not so far in the trenches, or you can kind of see like the purpose and everything and the reasoning being so much bigger than just us like having a more of a global, bigger impact on things that it just becomes like good. It becomes okay, like it just becomes a maintenance of you're just gonna keep growing, like you're gonna keep on this journey.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

You you also in in addition to all the work that you do you have a podcast sit around the fire, and I love that that that title because I think it creates like a a warmth just from like hearing it. What inspired you to want to start that?

SPEAKER_02 40:41

The name itself inspired definitely through Ram Das is he's a sit around the fire, like a kind of a whole I don't know if it's a speech or a story or how he kind of tells it, but at the end of it, he talks about how like all we're gonna do is just sit around the fire together. Like that's kind of the ending to all the the journey and everything. And for me, the podcast was like a massive put myself out there and growth element, and it still is like as you know, this it's difficult, it's not easy to put yourself out there. And but I decided like I needed to do it. I just had this deep calling in my heart to do this. It is also hard one-to-one, you only have so much time available with people, and so it'd find like we're talking about things and they want to learn more about it, or they want their partner to hear something about it. And so I was like, okay, I need to just do a podcast to where I can talk about things and share things, but then also giving a space for other people to share their stories because I think there's so much power in the story and power in the experience of you can't not hear somebody's story and relate to some aspect of it. And it's that whole vision of sitting around a campfire and what do people do? They share stories and you learn from that and you grow from that, even though it's not your specific experience. So that's what the podcast has really been driven towards, and just a big push in education, a big push around like the nervous system work we've been talking about, and hypnosis, and you know, like even the limiting beliefs or core beliefs that we hold, the subconscious mind running your life, like all these things that I never was talked to about, you know? And so I'm like, if I can put it out there to just help people understand or to get a different view on things, then yeah, that's a it's an honor to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

I think storytelling has become such a a vital process to a lot of people's healing and connections. What do you think it is about storytelling that makes that provides that safety where people can share just unfiltered or even when you get on the air and you can share like what you're talking about? What do you think what do you think that about storytelling that what do you think that brings out in us?

SPEAKER_02 43:22

I think it brings out our a bit of our vulnerability, a bit of our rawness and our truth, and it's also bringing out like the healing aspect because I think we heal together, and so that healing and community through the storytelling process of me sharing elements of my story or talking about it for me is another aspect of healing, like it's another aspect of being able to talk about things or share through my experience and be open and be real in a World that I think we're just craving that realness and that authenticity, anyways, is that's where the story comes in, is you hear someone else talk about it, and you can say again, like, oh wow, like I've I've been there before, I've experienced that, or like maybe I felt it in a different way, but I can still resonate with it. And that's where the healing and community happens, is because you're healing along with me healing together, and that's that real connection and that real genuine authenticity back

Helping Others Heal

SPEAKER_02 44:36

and forth.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

What is the what is this journey meant to you to now be in this very unique position of having lived as a first responder and a firefighter, and to now helping first responders and military and their family? What does that feel like for you when you see someone who came into you very burdened with you know, full of depression or fear, and you see them come out on the other side? What is that like for you?

SPEAKER_02 45:09

It feels like a gift, honestly. Like it's hard to even put words to it to try to find like what the actual feeling is. I I've lost a lot of people and friends to suicide, and that's been a big draw of my work as well, too, is to end the mission or to end the suffering in silence, essentially. And when I work with someone and I see somebody like even through their journey, like little steps at a time, making that progression of doing things differently or seeing themselves differently or remembering the truth of who they are. It's just like, how does this even I can't even call it work? Like honestly, it's just hard to even see it that way. It's just such a gift and it's such a blessing to be able to do it. And I know that it has a trickle effect. Like, I'll work with people, whatever number of people it is in the rest of my lifetime. But then those people go out and they impact other people. And then those people impact other people, and so I know that the mission and the purpose is much bigger than just me, but it's like, man, it's almost a breath of fresh air when somebody comes around the other side and is just, you know, even not arrived again by any form or fashion to a finish line, but they can just breathe a little bit easier, or they can show up a little bit differently in life, or let go of a lot of these things that have been literally like killing them in some form or fashion. It's just like, how can you even call it work? Because I don't know how it's just it's just such a cool. I call it like my dharma, my mission is my purpose. Like, and I know when I'm doing it, it's just like there's no doubt, no question, anything. It just all comes together.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

That must be really beautiful for you when you see someone like on their first session versus like their their 20th or their 30th session to see even the small incremental changes that maybe they can't even see. You know?

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah. I often don't even recognize people sometimes, or I have to remind them. I'm like, do you even can you hear what you're saying right now? Or like what you did is like sometimes people so drastically change that there's no way they would have like the same person that I started with would not have been this person sitting in front of me telling me these things that they're doing now, or how they're showing up for themselves, or they're handling the situation is like, wow, can you it's fascinating to see in such a testament to how like if you all you need is the willingness to change and that's it. Like that's all you need, and it's just cool to watch like the miracle happen.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

I think sometimes the hardest part is just you know showing up to that first session, you know, and just sitting there awkward, like, you know, when do you know like because I think we're all used to like those big intake forms, those big questionnaires, yeah, you know, and sometimes those are just not accessible to some people if you're just not in that that mind, it's it can be such a deterrent to people. What would you say to to someone who is is struggling right now, kind of in silence, and is hesitant to seek help in any way?

SPEAKER_02 48:48

So the person who's struggling, I would say for one, is you're not alone in your struggles, is that we have all gone through struggles and we still all have struggles we're going through. And so to not feel isolated or not to not feel alone is a huge thing in your struggling because that's one of the biggest things I think suffering in silence causes that withdrawal, that isolation, that I must be the only one feeling this way, or no one's going to understand how I'm feeling. Is there are people out there who can understand or can give you the space to help you understand it all on a bigger level? So if you're struggling to reach out, I would say just start with the exploration phase. Like look at people's websites, look at their social medias if they have them is get to know who that person is too before you even call. And a lot of practitioners do, you know, complimentary consultations. And you can call and just have a phone call to see how it feels to just be even on the phone with somebody and then just continue to try. Like if that person isn't a right fit, that's totally okay. But there are more people out there, but you just have to value yourself enough to say this is this is a big enough deal, this is a big enough commitment to me that I'm gonna do whatever I have to do. And sometimes you have to, you know, try a couple different things before you find what really fits you or a practitioner that really fits you as well. Is it doesn't have to be just this version of

Encouragement for Those Struggling

SPEAKER_02 50:40

therapy. But time is of the essence. If you're struggling in silence, I promise you the silence gets very, very loud in its own way. And that you can do this and you can move through the silence and through be sick enough of your suffering to want something different and absolutely possible.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

I love that uh move through the silence. I think that's that's I like what you said about doing some research on on individuals that you might be curious into into speaking with. What is what is next for you? You you've accomplished so much. I mean, all the modalities you've learned in your career path and your podcast. What what is next for you?

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Good question. I I promised my husband that I wouldn't do any more official schooling. So as much as sometimes I'm like, ooh, that would be fun to do that, like a formal big schooling. I'm sure there's little trainings I'll continue to do to refine and to get more into. I really love like neuro linguistic programming, which is part of what we use with hypnosis. That's been something that I've really enjoyed. So I'm sure I'll do some more work with that. But honestly, it's like in this season for me, it's just stepping back a bit and just like being in what I have now and just allowing everything to kind of synthesize and settle and just kind of enjoy the work that I'm doing because it's been a busy few years getting everything to where it is now. So it's just kind of enjoying this season now and working with people and continuing to grow the podcast and things like that. But yeah, nothing formal education-wise coming up next, but just enjoying this season where I'm at now. What do you like to do for fun? Like, how do you kind of take care of you? I walking is a huge thing for me. I love walks. Like I love walking the dog, being outside. I really enjoy cooking. Something there's something very like meditation-like with cooking for me that I really, really like. And yeah, tra I enjoy traveling quite a bit as well, too. And just kind of in yeah, being outside. Those kind of things are how I mostly recharge or do what I need to do from myself. Yeah. Any last words that you'd like to leave us with? I think just like kind of the last topic we talked about is just if you're struggling, please know that there are people here for you and people who can get you connected with

Closing Thoughts and Reflections

SPEAKER_02 53:30

other people too. But again, my mission is to help end the suffering and just know that like you are incredibly loved, you're incredibly valued, and you're incredibly accepted, no matter what you believe about yourself right now, is just remember the truth about who you are.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

I think that's a beautiful, a beautiful statement. And I want to thank you for for taking the time to meet with me today and all your powerful insights. You're a very genuine human being and you do a lot of beautiful work from from what I can see. And your work is a testament to integrating the mind and the body for deep healing, not just you're not just giving a pill to somebody and saying go home. You know, you're really trying to facilitate deep healing and help people live a better, more full life, not just in fight or flight mode. And I I love what you said about how it it creates a ripple effect each person that you help. And I think that's a powerful vision if we can wrap our mind how one person can affect ten people and twenty people and thirty people and so on and so forth. So thank you for the work that you have done that you continue to do. And I hope you get plenty of time to travel and cook and and walk and really enjoy the world around you. And to learn more about Ashley or to schedule with her, please check out her show, the Sit Around the Fire Podcast. Visit sit around the fire.org and visit her professional website, ashleydiller.com. All links will be in the show notes. And as always, you can find me in the Call Her Cat podcast on all major platforms. The easiest way to connect with me is through our link tree, which has all our links in one spot. Don't forget to follow us on social media for clip snippets and show updates. And until we meet again, please remember you don't have to carry what you came from and keep telling your story. You never know who you will help. Ashley is proof of that. And thank you everybody, and we will see you next time.