Recovery Catalyst
Recovery Catalyst Podcast hosted by Cat York, is dedicated to creating a supportive, honest space for candid discussions on mental health, addiction, recovery, healing, and breaking generational cycles. Each week, we dive into the messy, complex, and profound truth of finding a new, healthier legacy, sharing raw, authentic stories of resilience and reinvention. This is where a community connects, heals, and learns what it means to truly redefine their story, one authentic conversation at a time.
To Follow, Support or be a guest click https://linktr.ee/RecoveryCatalystPodcast
Recovery Catalyst
Good Grief: Humor, Regret, and Healing with Nikki the Death Doula
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Love the conversation? Want to be a guest? Support the Call Her Cat Podcast mission to redefine the story of addiction and recovery. The easiest way to help is to subscribe on your favorite platform and share this episode with a friend. We always love hearing from our listeners!
Thanks for Listening!
Hello, and thank you for tuning in. I'm Kat York, host of the Call Her Cat podcast. Our mission here is to create a safe space for raw, honest stories of resilience, recovery, and healing. Today we are honored to host a conversation with a professional whose work is dedicated to bringing dignity, peace, and clarity to life's most profound transition. Nikki Smith is an INLDA certified death jewula, which stands for International End of Life Jewh Association and a Grief Coach. She serves the terminally ill, the dying, the elderly, and their loved ones with dignity and respect. Her goal is to help others embrace the end of life and share open and honest communication with their loved ones. She can take the burden and hold space so you can focus on what matters most in your final days and leave this world at peace. Nikki also hosts her own podcast, Good Grief, with Nikki the Death Jewel. And you can find all her resources at Nikki Nikki thedeathdula.com. Nikki, thank you for being here and taking on this conversation and all the challenging conversations you take on.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00So can we start with what is a death doula and how does it differ from like a hospice nurse or another end-of-life professional?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Love answering this question. So uh death doulas usually I compare us to birth doulas because most people do. They hear the word doula and they're like, well, okay, I've heard of a birth doula before. So much like birth doulas provide that non-medical, holistic kind of coaching support before, during, and after a birth, we do this for end of life. It's not just centered around the death itself, though. We do all sorts of emotional support, uh, spiritual support, and even some practical support for somebody with a terminal diagnosis or somebody who is starting hospice and somebody who is actively dying, and or sometimes just the family members after a death has occurred to help them navigate the emotional waters. And again, we do a little bit of the practical support too. We're not social workers, we're not chaplains, we're not nurses, but we fill in all those little spaces where they might be able, might not be able to provide help and support. Most hospices, they're going to be in and out maybe a couple times a week for an hour or two, and that's it. We can provide a much lengthier time of support for both the dying and their loved ones around them.
SPEAKER_00And does the care for their loved ones extend past their loved ones passing? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yep. And that's why I started grief coaching as well, because I saw such a need for that to help continue to support the family with their with their grief, because grief goes through a lot of phases and early grief can be really scary and complicated. Uh, and it's gonna be totally different if the death was expected or not, too. If it was a sudden and unexpected death, that grief is gonna look very different than somebody who's been sitting with a loved one for several months as they were dying.
SPEAKER_00Now, what what inspired you to go down this path?
SPEAKER_02Oh, so many things. I I first noticed a lot of gaps in, I don't want to say gaps. Basically, we don't talk about death and dying in grief as a culture. I've always been very open about these subjects my entire life. I had a job in a nursing home when I was a teenager, like 16, 18 years old, I was working with people who were at end of life. I sat bedside with somebody who was dying when I was 17, and it never bothered me. It never seemed weird to me. Uh, my friends were horrified, but I thought it was a beautiful space. But I also just navigating in the world and experiencing my own losses have found that we we don't have these conversations. So when we're faced with with dying, with death, with you know, grief and all of this, we don't know what to do. We don't know how to act. And we assume everything we think and feel is wrong and we're crazy because it's not what we see in the movies. Uh I lost my brother in 2015 unexpectedly, and I really thought I was going crazy for a while because of all the all the different emotions I felt and the the things I was thinking about, his death in specific, and my family's dynamic after he was gone. So all of that just kind of led me into this position that I should have been in since the beginning.
SPEAKER_00One thing that I like about um you and your show is that you incorporate a little bit of humor to it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And some people, including myself, when I was first hit with when I lost my dad, is like I'd find things funny, and I'm like, I shouldn't be laughing. This is this shouldn't be funny. Now, why do you think humor is such an important part of grieving?
SPEAKER_02It makes it more human, it makes it more real. If we put grief on the and again, this goes back to what we see in movies and TV and popular culture. We have grief in this like very specific box, and it's up on this pedestal of like, this is this big, huge thing that is supposed to just make us feel awful for a long period of time. We're supposed to cry all the time, and we have that in our brains, but that's not really how we're feeling. If something strikes you funny, that's okay. That's perfectly normal. Obviously, read the room. Let's see, I do have a background in comedy, thank God, and and performance, so I can know how to read a room, but so I know when humor might not be welcomed. But if you're sitting, I've had somebody make jokes about the gurgling sound their mom was making when they were actively dying. And it wasn't like they were making fun of her, but making fun of the situation, and it definitely eased up that darkness when it's so heavy.
SPEAKER_00Right. And and so you have more of like a death positive movement versus we should be kind of be shrouded in sadness and uh despair all the time. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, absolutely, and it's perfectly okay to feel sad and to feel despair. Um, I lost my mom somewhat recently, and it was absolutely devastating to me. I still have days where I just don't understand how to navigate a world without my mom in it anymore. And it's it's I can I can make jokes, I can laugh, I can talk about funny things, but you know, I I still have moments where it's it's dark and scary.
SPEAKER_00And I I imagine you deal with some complex um passings. Um and one of the things that you work with that you're big on talking about is disenfranchised grief.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Grief that's not like openly acknowledged, like suicide or overdose. Can you can you expand on what disenfranchised grief is and maybe why we have such a hard time with it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So disenfranchised grief is kind of an umbrella term for as you said, the the griefs that we don't recognize as a society as grief. And these are non-death losses too. These are divorces, uh, ends of relationship, friendship breakups, loss of employment, loss of income, loss of identity, body changes. There's so much grief involved with things like um puberty and menopause and you know, other health conditions that might not necessarily be life-ending. Losing your ability to walk. Let's say you're in an accident and you're now a paraplegic, quadriplegic. There's grief involved in that. You're still alive, no death has occurred. But when you have something in your life and it's no longer there and you have an emotional response to that, that is grief. And we we don't ever like, yeah, we talk about being sad after somebody dies, but we don't ever talk about the grief involved in non-death losses, especially things like divorce. You think, well, you guys chose not to be married anymore, so obviously you're okay with it. That's not always the case. And even if there was amicable, there's still going to be grief involved.
SPEAKER_00And that that is hard. Um, because I think as a society, and you've touched on this, we're expected to agree for a couple days, whatever that loss is, and then you get right back to it. And that's just not realistic as a human being. No. I mean, look at all these cultures, some of them were black or like a year after they've lost someone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you know, you allow a space for people to feel their emotions, and some of those emotions I can imagine are very heavy and very um you know, angry at times. So when when you're sitting with someone who is maybe at the end of their life, and maybe they're not they have regrets. Um how do you where do you even begin to approach grief like that? Because I'm sure they're grieving maybe losses of their own.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Absolutely. And the biggest regret, there's a first of all, there's a fantastic book called The Five Regrets of the Dying. I recommend everybody read that because knowing that now helps you live a fuller life while you have it. But I I do see a lot of regret at the end of life. And it's a lot of times, it's not the big things. It's not the I wish I would have traveled more, or I wish I would have learned another language. It's the little things. Like I wish I would have appreciated the mundane. And it sounds weird, but it's those moments like I just wish I would have cooked dinner with my husband more often. I wish I would have not worked as much and maybe gone for a walk every once in a while. Just those little moments that we take for granted in our living, living life. So when I hear those types of regrets, it's not I can't fix it. I can't suddenly make it happen, like, yep, we're gonna go to Europe for a month when you've got maybe a week left to live. We can't do that, right? So it's gonna depend person to person, but what can I do to help you ritualistically release yourself of the burden of that regret? I can't make it happen. I can't make the regret go away, but I can at least make it a little softer for you if we can find a way to allow ourselves to release it, even if it's just talking it through and allowing yourself to recognize that while you didn't do XYZ, you did all these other things. You had all these other amazing parts of your life that were every bit as impactful and every bit as exciting as this thing you didn't get to do was that that's gotta be hard to hold space for for people in such a tender time.
SPEAKER_00It can be. And I imagine when you're dealing with loved ones who maybe the family dynamic is challenging that can be um kind of almost like a crisis management type of situation. And how do you how do you de-escalate kind of those really emotionally charged situations?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's uh honestly, first step in something like that is trying to separate people if there's arguments going on. And I see I'll see people not necessarily bickering or fighting, but just having like terse conversations right in the same room as the person who's dying. So, first thing for first and foremost, I'm gonna pull them out of the room if I can. Be like, hey guys, let's maybe have this conversation in the hallway or down in the kitchen or somewhere that's not here, because even if they're not responsive, they're hearing what's going on and I don't want, I don't want to upset them. So if we can just stop everything where it's at and separate it, that's a great first step in de-escalation because it'll bring the emotion down a little bit. But I will talk with each person individually, separately, see what's going on, what's making them so upset. Like why are they sticking with this one thing versus what this other person feels is necessary, whatever it might be. And it's not my job to change anybody's mind or say you're right and you're wrong, but to hear them out, meet them where they're at and understand what it is that they're what it is they're feeling in that moment and validating that because all of our feelings, all of our emotions are valid. It's what we do with them that matters, right? So if one child wants to continue treatment for their parent and the other child is is okay with them embracing their end of life, I can't tell them one's right and one's wrong, but understand why does this child feel they want their parent to continue treatment? Why do they want them to continue on? Well, and why does the other one okay? And just try to understand where they're at and see if we can all come together for some type of compromise.
SPEAKER_00Because you want the it's already going to be a challenging enough time when the person finally transitions. I imagine trying to hold space for different personalities, backgrounds can be very emotionally, I'm sure, taxing at times for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it can be.
SPEAKER_00And what do you I'm sorry? No, what do you do to like help you through those those times?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, if I've had a a rather emotionally charged day or hour or time with a family, I take my own time to decompress afterwards. A lot of times it's just a matter of sitting in my car. I'll, you know, drive down the block or whatever, and just kind of spend some time in my car doing some deep breathing and releasing myself of that because those are not my emotions to take home with me. I know that says sounds easier said than done, but like anything, it's a muscle. It takes practice. But when you can find yourself able to separate yourself from the emotions of this family and then come back into me being Nikki, just Nikki Smith, the wife and friend and whatever, it takes practice. And once you once you kind of get a hang of it, that stuff's still there. It's still here with me. I still know it's present, but I'm able to release it for a while so I can be me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because that's a heavy balance that you um because grief is obviously a big part of your life between the podcast and your job and dealing with you know grieving humans and humans that are getting close to the end of their life on a day-to-day basis. It's important to have that balance of how do you take care of you.
SPEAKER_02Right. And there's sometimes boundaries need to be put down. I've had clients I've worked with in the past that we know part of my contract is they can call or text me if they need in between visits within reason. And I have had people that have taken advantage of that and they're calling and texting me nonstop, and I can't so I have a separate number for work and I will just turn that off if I need to. Um, I know that I need to put that boundary down or I need to explain to them you've, you know, you've texted me seven times today, and we're kind of at a limit. So just collect your thoughts, maybe keep a list of questions or things you want to talk with me about, and we'll discuss it next time I come visit.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's important to do that. And I just want to circle back a little bit to we touched on it briefly of um the disenfranchised grief. And when you're dealing with a family who's lost someone suddenly, there was no long-term illness, whatever the case may be. Is there a difference when they lose someone suddenly, say between like addiction versus if they lose someone, say, to like a terminal illness? Like, is there a difference in how you approach that?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Um, I mean, I approach everybody with as much compassion as I can. And I let people guide me. I don't I don't guide people, I let them guide me. I let them show me where they're at and tell me where they're at with whatever it is they're dealing with. But when it comes to more sudden losses, that's a very different style of grief. When we have when we are watching somebody die over a period of time, we have what's called anticipatory grief. This is grief of all the little things along the way and anticipating that big grief when they are no longer with us. And I'm not saying that makes it easier, it makes it different, but we are starting to work that part of our brain where we're watching that person slowly disappear from us. Whereas with a sudden loss, we don't have that luxury. I hate to call it a luxury of watching somebody die, but we don't have that luxury of time and knowledge of that person's death. So our brain hasn't built any pathways, any neural pathways to understanding their their absence in life. Whereas with an with an anticipated loss, our brain's building those neuropathways that expect them to not be there at some point. Um, so it's very upsetting. It's it's confusing. Our brains need to rewire a lot of synapses to register an absence of somebody or something that we were not anticipating.
SPEAKER_00That's tough because um when you're dealing with a sudden loss like that, I imagine the emotions almost feel a lot bigger, almost amplified sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, and it also depends on on the death itself. Sometimes when it comes to addiction, if somebody's been struggling with addiction for a long period of time and they succumb to it, it's it's I don't want to say it's very similar, but it has a same process as sometimes an anticipated death, because although we don't necessarily know that person's going to die, we all as a society understand that addiction can lead there sometimes. It doesn't always, but it can. And when it happens, it's it's that feeling of I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised. And I don't mean that to sound callous at all. I so I apologize if that sounds callous, but we recognize there was something that led to this versus an accident, uh, a murder, a suicide. We might not know that something was leading to that. And that is very jarring. And it's that with that comes a lot of anger because we don't understand it. We don't, our brain can't put parameters around, well, the addiction led to this death. We we can say that, even that's not necessarily true. It's usually not the addiction. There's underlying uh things that led to the addiction, but with things like an accident, we can't put parameters, well, you know, they they did this on, I don't know, we can't put parameters on it, so our brain just can't quite comprehend it. So there's anger because we can't make sense of it.
SPEAKER_00Would you say, would it be fair to say that when you're dealing with a family who's lost someone from addiction or long-term substance abuse, uh that it's almost like a double death? Like they've lost that person to to addiction and they lose them physically.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Yeah, there is there's that anticipatory grief, but there's also when someone someone in your life is actively abusing either drugs or alcohol, whatever it may be, there's that loss of what you the relationship you expected and wanted with them, because that relationship is not there now. And the loss of the future that you are expecting and anticipating with them that is not there now because of this. And so there's that loss leading up to it. And then, yes, absolutely there's a a double loss than when the death occurs. Absolutely, it's a double whammy.
SPEAKER_00What do you think? What would you like to see it? I should say, society do differently and how they approach those who are grieving.
SPEAKER_02Well, more compassion for one. And if we're I mean so we just we were just talking about death with things like addiction and or suicide. There, those two are so stigmatized that we're terrified to talk about it. I've known so many people that have lost somebody in their life to an overdose, and they have there, they won't even tell people. They say they had a heart condition we didn't know about or they had an accident. They never will bring up the addiction, even though a lot of times people already knew that it was there, but they don't want to put that stigma on that on that person and have them remembered for that. And I I appreciate that. I understand that you we need to separate people from their death as well. And that's a hard point for us because when we see somebody we've known for 20 years and they're a great, beautiful person, and then we find out they died by suicide. Now all of a sudden, that's all we see. We don't remember the great person they were before that, we just remember the suicide. So understanding and respecting that we don't need to mark that person with their manner of death. We can remember them for who they were.
SPEAKER_00And that's hard because you would think in the times that we're at in 2026, with there would be with all the awareness that's out there of mental health of addiction, that there would be more of an open conversation about not only how, like you said, the person the way they died, but just about addiction in general. Like where how can we do more? And how can we be there for the family because they must be devastated by this?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And the most beautiful gift you can give to somebody is just the willingness to listen. Because if you've if you've lost somebody to one of these stigmatized deaths, we're scared to talk about it. I've lost somebody very close to me to alcoholism, and nobody in the family wants to say that. They all know, but nobody wants to say it out loud. So nobody's processed their grief on that style of death. And I'm open. I'm like, I'm an open book. I will happily talk about my anger and my frustration and all of that. the addiction leading up to their death and just being somebody to listen non-judgmentally to say go ahead and tell me how mad you are how stupid you feel this is or how you feel regret that you couldn't fix them which spoiler you can't we can't we can't fix each other all the time but have a safe place to let people vent that out yeah where do you dealing with families who who are grieving and like you said when people approach somebody who's dealing with someone from loss of suicide or addiction what are some things that people say that may not be the most supportive in that moment um the the ones I loathe the most are they're in a better place now. Like don't say that to people um or think everything happens for a reason especially if it comes to one of these stigmatized deaths if you say everything happens for a reason what reason was there for somebody to take their own life or to overdose like that sometimes things don't happen for a reason but the they're in a better place like that is that comes from such a place of heart because that usually comes from people who believe in this beautiful afterlife and that's where they are and there's no suffering and they're happy and everything is beautiful and that sounds lovely but I I again I lost my brother and my mother very un unexpected and sudden both of them and I'm sorry I would rather them be here with me and then in some beautiful place. Right? That's my gut reaction when somebody says at least they're in a better place and like well maybe my brother wanted to watch his kids grow up maybe they needed their dad and they didn't get that so just be careful with things like that.
SPEAKER_00One thing that always I used I used to get upset with like when my brother passed or like oh I'm sorry you know it used to be like or or thoughts and prayers and like you touched on it what what people want most is someone to sit with them. Yeah at least what I wanted most I should say I didn't want someone to be like you know always in a better place. I'm like you're not that's that's no you know and I'm glad you touched on that because sometimes I feel I'm curious what you think it's sometimes better to say nothing and just absolutely offer like what can I do for you.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well and that's that's kind of a touchy one too because when you say if you need anything let me know that puts it on them to A know what they need and B ask for it. And we all suck at asking for help. So you're kind of putting the pressure on the person who's grieving to be able to speak up and know what they need because they may not know. I always if you if you if you really do want to help that person instead of saying let me know if you need anything offer specific help. Say if they have children say hey can I take your kids out for ice cream so you can have a couple hours to yourself or can I mow your lawn for you? Can I bring over and if you're gonna bring over food ask first because sometimes people get inundated with food there might be food sensitivities or allergies so hey I I'm gonna make a big batch of chili can I bring a couple bowls over for your family ask first um but yeah I would I would definitely avoid the can I help can I let me know if you need anything that that's a good point. It comes from a beautiful and you want to help but to go back to your original question sometimes I don't want to say don't say anything but I too I got so burnt out on hearing I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for your loss thoughts and prayers I'm so sorry for your loss it's like shut up and I know and I didn't want to say that they every of course people felt terrible for me then I'm that that they that meant they cared about me and that's I needed to recognize that there they didn't know what to say. That's just it we don't know what to say. So it's hard there's no one magic word you can say to anybody right if you know the person well enough you know what you can say what you can't say to them. But if you can't think of anything just say I can't imagine what you're going through I love you so much. No you're no I'm thinking about you.
SPEAKER_00Like just something just not I'm sorry or thoughts and prayers. They start to feel they start to feel like platitudes after they really do after a fashion.
SPEAKER_02They really do and I tell you having had a couple significant losses in my life the best the best text message because I got a lot of text messages the best ones I got were like weeks after it happened that said you don't need to reply to this I just want you to know I'm thinking about you and I love you. That meant more to me than you're in my thoughts and prayers.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes you don't have the words right you just want to know if somebody is still thinking about you right after the funeral after the memorial.
SPEAKER_02Yeah absolutely I still get people that check in on me now and then they're like I'm just thinking about you you don't have to say anything love you and that's that's great.
SPEAKER_00And that's so important because sometimes like a week or two after people just move on yeah it may not check back in. Yeah. And like you said we were not gonna actively reach out right you know and you have um you have like a good grief community.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Like do you want to talk a little bit about your your community your group absolutely yeah thank you uh I started this selfishly a little bit for me because I'm still absolutely going through grief with losing my mom not too long ago but I I got tired of the usual support groups and I checked out all the groups on Facebook and they're just a lot of I didn't like them. I didn't like the vibe there. So I'm like I'm gonna make my own community. So I created a beautiful place. We've got a 24-7 Slack channel where people can talk to each other if they need and vent out their feelings and there's no judgment. You can say the bad words you can say the icky you can say the the weird things that you're afraid to tell your neighbor like I'm a little glad they're gone some days, right? We have those thoughts those thoughts happen. They're okay and they're valid. Doesn't mean you didn't love them. So I then we host a monthly grief I call it a grief circle so it's kind of like a support group but it's not an icky support group. It's just a place where we can all be open and honest with each other about our grief. And then every other month I'll have a speaker come on andor a workshop for my for my people as well and we do journaling activities or all sorts of great stuff going on there. Now is there a time limit say like from like you have to join for when the person like within the first year of the person's passing you you can join I have somebody in the group who lost their spouse five years ago and they're still working through that.
SPEAKER_00So can we touch can we touch on that a little bit about grief that maybe resurfaces maybe five years later 10 years later.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely that and I use myself as an example with this all the time because I I talk about my brother's passing quite a bit he died in 2015 and I don't think the grief hit me until four years later because I was his sister and we didn't have the greatest relationship. We were on speaking terms but our relationship was strained to say the least when he died my parents just lost a child he was an adult child he was 40 but they still they lost a child and he had two very young children and they both lost their dad and I went into protect mode and I had to do everything I could to save my parents from one more second of pain and do all of the things for my parents and I had these two beautiful children like they're they saw their mom um and they're doing quite well right now but I had to like be there to be the the the the aunt whatever I needed to do to protect them from any more pain. I never once thought I lost a brother in all of this and it like grief you it's like a a beach ball in the water you can keep pushing it down and eventually it's gonna come up and smack you in the face. So and it smacked me in the face and I I had a real hard time with that it it was like starting all over again with his death and it took me a while to work through my own process and process my own grief with him. So that happens sometimes we don't do all stuff right away because either it's too shocking it's too traumatic or we feel like our grief isn't valid because we're not the spouse we're not a child or it's not a direct relative. So we ignore it and then it'll come back.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and then sometimes I know when I lost I lost my brother I shoved it down as much as I could and then anger was coming out like sideways and I'm like okay I know where this is coming from yeah and and that's heavy because you're like oh it's five years later and one thing that always drove me crazy is that I felt I should get through the grief like there was an ending to it. Yeah that's a big misconception.
SPEAKER_02What do you feel like when you hear that like you should get through it there there is no there is a through it but there's no over it if that makes sense like there's no right words or right terminology here but I hear so many people ask me like shouldn't I be over this by now? And that's that's a poor choice of words because we never really quote get over our grief. It's it's gonna be there forever and that's always so daunting and scary to hear in the beginning but that's not a bad thing. That doesn't mean you're gonna be hurting and sad forever. You're gonna have a lot of bigger emotions in the beginning and they'll get softer as time goes on but they're still there. I still miss my brother I still grieve the fact that he's not there to see he both of his both of his children both had their first children this year. I grieve that he's not a he didn't get to enjoy being a grandfather. So I agree um of course I'm gonna continue to grieve that death forever and my mom I'm never gonna get over that one because it's my mom. Yeah you know it depends and it depends on the relationship obviously some are going to be more impactful than others but there's there's no getting over it there's just learning to I don't want to say live with it because that means tolerate it but to embrace it and understand it and let it shape you. The losses I've suffered have made me the compassionate person I am today. I I don't know that I could do the work I do having if I hadn't have gone through some of my own losses. When when you're working with someone say for I don't know six months or a year and they come to you and they say you know Nikki thank you for everything that you've done you've helped me and my family through this really challenging time what does that mean to you when you hear words that you impacted somebody so positively in such a tough time I struggle to take a compliment I'm one of those people that if you tell me my hair looks nice I'm like oh really okay I guess I don't know so full I mean I'm a human being everybody I'm being honest here when I hear that I'm not doubting that I did have an impact but it's always a little like oh oh I I had no idea like sometimes I don't realize the impact I'm making because they might not tell me through the process like thank you for this thank you for that this was like I might not hear it until the end like everything you did was amazing and when you did XYZ it really helped us with this and so it's beautiful to hear obviously it makes me feel good inside but it it helps push me forward to help the next people because when I know I actually am doing something that is helping and making a difference then I can bring that to my next client and the next one after that.
SPEAKER_00You you have um a Patreon channel. I do and I love it because you have um like an affirmation every week um and I look forward to and your Friday funnies um and if anyone wants to go check out her Patreon channel it's it's very much worth it there's a lot there um and something that you do that I love is that you um you have like a fund for to help people like pro bono.
SPEAKER_02Do you is it okay to ask about your pro bono work a little bit yeah absolutely yeah I I all the money I receive from Patreon I I put like a little line item so that I can help provide pro bono work where I can um I'm working with two different people currently and limited time obviously but I have uh someone I've been working with for probably two years now will probably continue to work with her for a while. She's alone she has no family she has some family but they're very far away and they don't really have a great relationship. She has nobody here in town. So I'm kind of like her emergency contact and I check in on her and I make sure she's and we talk through what she's feeling that week on you know her end of life. She's in her 80s now so she knows it's gonna come eventually. And she has a lot of fear and anxiety. So we talk through that um I have some another person who is uh I I I don't want to go into specifics has a terminal condition right who's only 23 years old and has been estranged from their family. So again they they really don't have anybody and 23 years old they don't have a lot of money either so I've been trying to support them in different ways throughout their process as well.
SPEAKER_00That's a beautiful community and a beautiful purpose you have in this life is it okay to call it your purpose to absolutely yeah okay um is there anything you'd like to say to somebody who's who's listening to this and they're grieving um whether it's a a a loss through an illness or or uh addiction or any kind of loss is there anything you'd like to absolutely I will say what I say at the end of every episode of my podcast your grief is yours your feelings are valid and grief doesn't always have to suck so those three things are so what first and foremost your feelings are valid.
SPEAKER_02So many people have especially when it comes to loss from addiction there might be feelings of relief that I don't have to worry about this person anymore because you spent so much time possibly waiting for that phone call that this has happened and now it has happened and you're not waiting for that phone call anymore. And that's perfectly okay to feel that sense of relief. Again that doesn't mean you didn't love them. That doesn't mean you're happy this happened but you're no longer clenched 247 that is a relief when you don't have something you're anticipating anymore. So whatever you're feeling it's perfectly valid and it's okay. You're allowed to grieve in your own way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah no and that that's important because grief for everyone looks different.
SPEAKER_02You know I've cried in the grocery store before oh I did that they just started putting Mother's Day stuff out and that was fun for me. Yeah that's a hard one I had a little little breakdown at the grocery store myself last week.
SPEAKER_00I don't know about you but I find when I've when I've cried in the grocery store I'm often met with you know a lot of compassion um you know and I'm like I'm gonna be start to be that person you know like every time you know it's like I mean and um I think I think you know we just gotta let it out sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well and this just this morning I don't know if you know this the day this is I know this will be airing at a different time but the day we're recording this is siblings day it's national siblings day I didn't even know that no yeah because I was looking at my Facebook memories there was a bunch of stuff about my brother and I'm like oh crap I I'm sure I would open Instagram and see a whole bunch of like sibling photos. Yeah yeah so there you go it's gonna it's and that's just it these things are gonna pop up at different points when you're not expecting it I didn't remember it was siblings day and I got that in my face first thing this morning so it's gonna happen. No it's gonna happen and it's okay to get upset absolutely you know absolutely what what do you what's what's next for you are you working on anything that we haven't touched on I think I've done enough I think I've done enough no no no um no I'm continuing my podcast um I have you know as of right now I have no intention of stopping that I love doing it I love getting having because you know you are on my show I love getting to meet super cool people and have amazing conversations so just look forward to my podcast continuing um yeah in my good grief society I would love to see people there I I highly recommend your podcast it's it's a very um it's very comforting podcast but it's very feel it's very genuine as well thank you um you know and that's why like it's not specifically about advice or you know just real people telling real stories and that's I think with grief like you said which is so complex and just not talked about enough um you know I think it's a very necessary um podcast you put out and the work that you do is definitely needed. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00So thank you for what you do um and thank you for for joining us today um because I've been looking forward to talking with you uh quite a bit and if you want to learn more about Nikki and the work that she does as a death jeweler and a grief coach uh check out her podcast which is good grief with Nikki the Death Jewell you can also find all her links in the show notes and on her website at Nikki Nikki thedeathdoula.com and to all of our listeners thank you for being a part of this community all of my contact information is in the show notes including a direct link to my social media platforms and email I am also excited to share that during the month of May I'll be having some guest co-hosts join the show um and until then please remember you don't have to carry what you came from and we will see you next time