Sober Travel That Actually Works with Teresa Bergen

We talk with sober travel writer Teresa Bergen about how to protect sobriety on the road without shrinking your life. We share practical ways to handle social pressure, build sober-friendly plans, and travel with more freedom and better memories. 

• Teresa’s long-term sobriety story and why it feels liberating 
• Why alcohol is so baked into travel culture and how to stop it ruining your mood 
• Picking destinations where alcohol is not the main focus 
• Travelling with friends who drink and prioritising what you want to do 
• Handling drink offers with a simple script and a non-alcoholic drink in hand 
• Using a support system during high-pressure moments like a surprise mixology class 
• Being upfront about not drinking and how that empowers other people 
• Navigating business networking sober and giving yourself permission to leave…and more!

To learn more about Teresa Bergen, her books and sober travel please visit https://teresabergen.com/ 

I’m looking to help our community grow! If you’d like to support the show, please visit https://www.buzzsprout.com/2628184/support . Supporters receive a special shout-out on an upcoming episode, and I would love to help promote your latest work or website to our audience. Let’s collaborate and get your message out there! You can see all my platforms and follow along here: https://linktr.ee/RecoveryCatalystPodcast

Transcript

Welcome And Meet A Sober Traveler

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You want to remember why you don't drink. So if you if you stop drinking because maybe you're in recovery, or maybe you don't, you're not really an alcoholic, but you feel like you're drinking a little bit more than you should for your health, and you're better off without, it helps to have a support system. So either somebody there with you or somebody you can contact the Catalyst Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I'm your host, Kat York. Welcome to My Little Corner of the World, where I invite guests to talk about their journey to recovery, be it from addiction, trauma, mental health challenges, or a combination of any and all those things. My goal is to shine a light on these difficult topics through the lens of curiosity rather than cure. The truth is, recovery is a very individual journey, and no two paths are the same. Is the author of sober travel handbook, Navigating the World Alcohol Free. She is also a travel writer and a longtime sober person who wants to help others in recovery see the world without picking up a drink. And with that, I will welcome Prince. Thank you. So that's a brief overview of you. Um and I guess is there anything you wanted to add? Anything that I missed about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Oh, there's always endless things about anybody, but you touched on some highlights. That's great. Let's say I live in Portland, Oregon with my husband and my cat. I've been sober a really long time, and I've been really lucky to get to explore lots of things, lots of uh different parts of life, because I haven't been stuck with a drink in my hand and worried all the time about where I'm gonna get the next one. So it's been very liberating. Anyone who's thinking, like, oh my God, I don't know if I can put my drink down, believe me, you'll have all sorts of interesting opportunities if you do.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

And uh just touching briefly, uh, how how long have you been a sober individual?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Oh my God, it's kind of really 38 years, Kat. I quit when I was only 20. I wasn't of legal age, and now I'm 58. So I've had a whole adult life. Yeah, it's been very lucky. Although sometimes I feel a little out of touch, like I'm like one of those really, really old vampires no one relates to anymore because they were born in the year 500, you know?

SPEAKER_02 2:56

No, no, no, no. No, no, I think that's wonderful. I mean, congratulations on that long-term sobriety because that's it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

It's been work, but I've also been lucky and had a lot of support.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

So um that's wonderful. That's wonderful. Um, so I'd like to touch on a little bit on your book. And what inspired you to write a book about sober travel?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I've been a travel writer for about 15 years now. I've always been some kind of writer. I've been like a lifelong writer, but but like about the last 15 years, I've been writing about travel for magazines and websites. And in this work, I end up going on like a lot of press trips and I go to conferences where I'm with other travel writers. And there is so much, you know, there's so much of a culture of like, um, oh, I write about fine wines, oh, I write about craft beers, oh, I write about cideries, all this stuff. And I was at all these endless dinners. I'm also vegan, which is kind of a pain in the ass at these things because not only am I not eating the food and I'm not drinking the drinks. I'm like the stick in the mud to a lot of these people. So I'm just like sitting there at these endless dinners trying to be sociable and not, you know, part of me is just like rolling my eyes, like, oh my God, you're stupid wine. I have to hear about. So they go on and on about being these kind of writers. And so I just started sort of saying almost as a joke, I was like, oh, well, I'm a sober travel writer, not really knowing what that even meant, you know. Um, so I started thinking about it more though, like, what does it mean to to travel through the lens of sobriety? And I wrote my first article about it maybe seven years ago for a website called Wander with Wonder. The editor there said I could write about um thing, you know, non-alcoholic things to do in wine countries. So I wrote an article about that, and that ended up being pretty popular on her site. So it made me start to think, hmm, maybe there is an audience of people who don't drink who are interested in other things to do when they're traveling. So that's how I first started. And then I got this idea to write a whole book about it maybe three or four years ago. And I wasn't sure if there was really the market or not. But um fortunately, my publisher, Microcosm Publishing here in Portland, Oregon, where I live, they took a chance on me. And yeah, so now I have a book out about it.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

And it is a great book. Thank you. It is a great book. Um, because often we think about a vacation, everywhere you go, there's booths, um, resorts, hotels, any activity. Um, even when to Cape Cod, there's the vineyards, there's a bar in every corner. Um, and even those with good sobriety, long-term sobriety, it can be a challenge just to even attempt to stay sober, even on a week's long vacation.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah, and even if you're even if you're sober a long time and you don't feel like you're about to drink, it can also just be an irritant. Like sometimes it just puts me in a bad mood, like I was saying, kind of rolling my eyes with all those wine drinkers. Like every time I see these, like I fly a lot on Alaska Airlines because I live on the West Coast and they have this whole, this whole program called wine flies free, because they want people to buy more local wine. And every time I see one of those wine flies free

Why Write A Sober Travel Book

SPEAKER_00 6:00

signs, I sort of sneer at it. I'm like, well, what about my vegan ice cream? Can it fly free? I just get kind of touchy a lot. And I think I think probably a lot of people do. Like we like we have to have this kind of armor around us all the time in a way, like the psychic armor to just keep living our sober lives in a culture that's so obsessed with alcohol. So I'm I'm trying to not be like that so much because it only hurts me. Like nobody else cares when I'll touch about this stuff. I'm the one that has to feel crabby, but it does come up a lot when I see the no this constant reminders that drinking is the norm. It's it's annoying.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

It can be, like you said, it can be an irritant because um, so often I think sometimes that's all you hear about on vacations is where to get the next drink. You don't hear about like the fun activities, you know, hikes or whatever it may be. And so have you found places? Are there places out there like resorts that are like sober or dry?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Occasionally I find I find some of those, yeah. So what I I look for places that are um some places that don't have alcohol, also anywhere where the main focus isn't alcohol. So there might be some alcohol around, but that's not the thing. So, like for me, a lot of wellness places or nature focused things where alcohol just isn't the main point, or things of like great scenic beauty or um wildlife conservation. Like, none of those things are you gonna are you as likely to find a bunch of drunk people because they're there for a different reason. Um, and then just also fun things to do. Then sometimes you end up with like more family-friendly stuff, like um amusement parks or something. There's some amusement parks where you're not gonna encounter alcohol or not much. So um yeah, I'm just looking for those things where that's not the focus, although sometimes alcohol is present. But yeah, there's some kind of like wellness centers where there's not alcohol served. Um, I was at a yoga retreat in the Bahamas recently, like no alcohol on a campus or on Krapalu in Massachusetts. That's a big wellness one where they alcohol. So you can find some of them dotted around like that. And it is nice when you're just away from it, or certain countries, like if you go to the Middle East, maybe not right now, but if you go to the Middle East, it's nice. Um it's very relaxing and it's mind expanding to see whole cultures where that's not the norm and they socialize without it. So I kind of like that too.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

No, that that is, it's a and it's important to. I mean, I don't think anybody expects the world to be alcohol free, you know. But like you said, when it's so in your face all the time and you're a sober person, and it's just not maybe maybe it's not even about sobriety, you just don't want to be around it all the time. You know, like you just want to be, you know, maybe kind of like you said, on the sanctuaries, animals, hikes, the beach, you don't want to be um just surrounded by it. Um, because a different culture has a different vibe. And which kind of leads me to my next question. Like, say you go on like a trip with some friends and you're like the sober person and they're they're they could they're able to drink. How do you manage that kind of dynamic?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I tend to prioritize my own interests. So if it's if it's just gonna be like everyone else wants to go wine tasting or well, first of all, most of my friends aren't very big drinkers, they might not all be sober, but most of them, they're just not that interested. That's not their main thing. So so like when I've been on trips from usually there'll be people that only drink a little bit. So like they're gonna have maybe a glass of wine with dinner or something. I don't I don't really care. Um, it's it's more like if they just wanted to go to wineries or something and I was sitting there twiddling my thumbs, that would be a drag. Um so when I'm going on a trip, I'm usually thinking about what I want to do. And my interests these days really water focused. So I want to go places where I can go open water swimming, or I can go scuba diving, or I can go snorting or I can go kayaking. So those are some of the things I want to do. So um, like I was on a kayak camping trip last year, and a few of the people, some of the people were drinking, and then some of us weren't. But again, you know, it's like when you're real active like that, you're probably not gonna drink that much. It's just gonna be, you know, a couple. So that doesn't bother me. It's more like I don't want to be around people that are getting all loud and boorish because um people when they drink, they often think they're really clever and witty, but from the outside, they usually look really dumb.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

No, no, I can I can I can attest to that. We're we're not that funny when we're as as funny as we think when we're drinking, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Oh man, yeah. I was such and I mean, I was so, you know, in my mind, I was kind of more together, but like I used to knock over bar stools that I would swear I was not within four feet of. I mean, that's how uncoordinated and out of touch I was. So I'm sure my my jokes were about that funny too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

No, we and I think volume control goes out the window too. You know, you know, you think like you're talking like this, really you're at a much higher volume. Um, so yeah, it can be just a kind of an unpleasant experience when you're you know, you're not as funny or as quiet as you think you are often.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

And if people want to be like that, fine, that's not my problem. It's not where I'm not where I choose to spend my time now, right now.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

No.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

And um which kind of leads me into the topic of it's it's eventually at some point, you know, you're gonna be on vacation and you may be offered a drink, and you may be like tempted to say, oh, okay, we'll just one, or it's just a sample, or it's just a shot. What are some maybe some tips or ideas that you've come up with that have helped you through that obstacle?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

At some point, I think I've formed a clear idea in my mind. It's sort of like a barrier that where I'm I have I'm very strong in feeling like that's not for me. Just like other stuff, there might be other things in your life that are not for you. You know, maybe you maybe part of your moral code

Choosing Destinations Without Alcohol Focus

SPEAKER_00 12:10

or your strong likes or dislikes. And so somehow I was able to form that. So that's usually pretty strong where I see that and it and I'm just like, oh, no, thanks. That's not for me. Um, if you're feeling really tempted to have a drink, well, a few things like if you're in a social situation where everyone else has a drink in their hand, it is really helpful to have a kind of drink, just not an alcohol drink. And holding something and sipping something, it will cut down a lot on people offering you a drink. So you won't have to be so tempted all the time that they keep asking you for one. It's much easier if you're just empty-handed. And it makes other people more comfortable too, because even if they're not trying to get you drunk, they still maybe they just want to be hospitable and they're worried they're not being a good host because you don't have a drink. And even though that's not really your problem, like what someone else feels, it just makes things kind of easier and smoother and it stops people offering. So it's helpful to have something in your hand like that, you know, non-alcoholic. Um, that'll take off some of it. And I mean, I guess you just you want to remember why you don't drink. So if you if you stop drinking because maybe you're in recovery, or maybe you don't, you're not really an alcoholic, but you feel like you're drinking a little bit more than you should for your health, and you're better off without. It helps to have a support system. So either somebody there with you or somebody you can contact. Um, like I've been one time I was at a on some kind of press trip, and there was just this surprise mixology class. So, like, we're gonna do some bartending now. I'm like, oh God. So I like immediately went in the bathroom and texted my husband, who's also a non-drinker, and I was just like, oh God, surprise mixology class. I mean, who just gave me that little support? Like, oh God, you know, hang in there, you know, don't worry about it. Just tell him, you know, you're gonna make a drink without alcohol. But just having that little support helps so much, whether that's a fellow non-drinker, your partner, um, or even somebody who drinks a little, but just as long as there's someone that supports you and your decision not to. It makes all the difference.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

It does, even just having that one contact, like you reached out to your husband. Like if you have a friend or a family just like, listen, they're having a sexology class, like this is not comfortable for me. Like, just give me like a little pep talk or remind me why I don't drink, just you know, because that can sound fun, you know, because it's a group activity, and that's a lot of pressure. Um, if you've never been put in that situation before, especially. And you know, you don't want to be like you said, like the stick in the mud being like, oh, I don't, you know. So this helps you kind of I think bring back a little bit of confidence in why you're not drinking.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah. And now I'm very I'm this very much reminded me. I write about sober travel. So if I was in that situation then, I would say, I would just say to the person, hey, you know, I write about sober travel, so I'd really like to participate if you can uh come up with some interesting thing I can mix up that has no alcohol in it. You know, I'm now I'm much more practiced at being up front, you know. It's and it's been a weird transition since I started writing about sober travel because I was never really secretive about being sober, but it was not what I led with. Like I would never come up and be like, hi, I'm Teresa and I'm sober. But now I'm now I'm writing about this when people say, What do you write about? So it's so much more up front, which seemed to me a little embarrassing at first, but now I've kind of like gone used to it. And it's helpful, you know, if you're someone who is able to be out front about your sobriety, it's surprising how much it helps other people who aren't. Because since I've been like this, I'm like now, I'll get a non-alcoholic drink and I might be around a group of people who I don't know if they're drinkers or not, but someone will be like, What are you drinking? And I'll tell them and they'll say, I didn't know that was available. And I said, Well, I had to ask for it. And then they're like, Oh, I'm gonna go ask for that too, because I don't really want to drink alcohol right now. So, you know, it's like one person standing up and being like, Yeah, not for me. It empowers other people, and so it's uh it's a really helpful thing, and it makes me feel feel good about helping other people by sort of just you know being a a model of not drinking.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

That's a good point, too. Um, and plus it it's nice that that's that's your career too, as a sober travel as a sober travel writer. You know, it gives you a nice um, I don't want to say excuse, it's not excuse, but a nice reason, you know, to be like, I'm exploring this side of it, you know, without alcohol. And what has that were you always a sober writer? Um, or was there a time when you were drinking and writing at the traveling at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Well, I wasn't a travel writer then, but I was um I've also written a lot of fiction, not that I've been very successful with it, but it has been something I've done a lot of. And I did um, I do remember there was a time when I was writing my, I'm sure it was a probably terrible novel when I was 20, and I was drinking a lot, and I lost my novel while I was drinking. And I kept, because I was so drunk, I kept going to the same three places I'd been and asking them, have you seen my novel? Have you seen my notebook? You know, I mean, and I'd go to the next one and the next one, then come back 10 minutes later, have you seen it? Has it turned up until I was kicked out of all three places and I never found my novel? So there's some experience of being a drinking writer. Now, lots of there's lots of famous alcoholic writers who did manage to not lose their novels and publish them, like you know, Fitzgerald and Hemingway, tons of them. So I'm not I'm not saying you can't be an alcoholic writer and be successful, but uh, it didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

No, no, and losing your work is never a good way to actually get it published. No, no, no, it is not. And um, you know, something that you had in your book that I like, it's interesting, it is how to say, and I thought this was really creative. How to say I don't drink alcohol in other languages. And I love that. I haven't Google all that. That no, that's really cool because that's not something I think a lot of people may actually practice or look up before they're traveling to like Mexico or wherever. And and what do you think are some other phrases non-drinkers should maybe learn before they're traveling?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

No, thank you. No, thank you. I like that. Where's the bathroom? That doesn't have to do with alcohol. It's just another important one. It's a nice escape.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Like, no, thank you, gotta go to the bathroom. No, I think that no, because I think that's important because how many times, like wherever you might be traveling, and you're like, oh god, how do I say no alcohol? Because the first thing that like if you go out to eat, they're gonna hand you is like a drink menu. You know, so if you know how to say, like, I don't drink alcohol in Spanish, it'll make it a lot easier, you know, versus like how am I gonna struggle through this?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah, and if you haven't written down, you can also point at it because sometimes the pronunciation is very difficult in other languages, so you can make sure that they see that. I've also done that as being a vegan, you know, try it's always trying to find the stuff that doesn't have meat, which is quite tricky sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

No, it it can be yeah, because you got you got two um yeah, that can be hard being alcohol-free and as well as vegan. I can see where that would be difficult sometimes to find spaces to to dine.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, you know, but you always want to be really polite and try to be grateful for what people do have or what they can offer you. Yeah, because you don't want you don't want them to be spitting in your food, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:27

No, no, you don't want that experience. No, you know, we that's that's not what we want for a vacation.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

You want to be a good guest, you know, especially if you're in another country, because I always try to remember that um I'm an ambassador for my country, you know, just even as an individual. Like you might go places they haven't met someone for your country before, they don't get that many people like that, or they've had bad experiences. So being American, there's lots of ugly American stereotypes. So I want to try to be grateful for whatever it is. And sometimes I make like I've been in one time I was in Mexico and I asked for a non-alcoholic drink, and they just kept making jokes like, oh, what? You want double the tequila? And you know, I wanted I wanted to smack them, but I was just like, uh, no,

Handling Offers And Social Pressure

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I would like it to be alcohol free, please.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

You know, like oh my goodness. Yeah, no, yeah, the jokes are okay, but sometimes you're like, you know, it's it's funny the first time, maybe not the second or the third time.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, and for me, trying to give me like making jokes about giving me alcohol is really not funny. And every once in a while, someone does it, and it's just it's really not funny to me, but I try to remember because I have kind of snapped people's heads off a long time ago when you did that. Now I try to remember that they're probably not that aware of alcoholism, they're not really wishing me dead, not really that's what I feel like. If you have something, you know, if you and when you think about if it was like a person that was off heroin, you know, they're not gonna have to endure all these jokes, they're not always gonna be told, like, oh, well, you can just sit there and have um a diet coke while everybody else does heroin, you know? Yeah, no. People just don't take it that seriously. But you know, all that all the drugs, including alcohol, are dangerous and a lot of them can lead to death if you're not careful. So you want to kind of balance the fun of travel and going out with remembering that there is this real reality if you're a person who's in recovery and has the addiction problem.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Now, do you think there's uh more pressure, say um trying to network without alcohol at business events versus just like um you know traveling with your friends?

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Oh, for sure. There's there's there's things about business networking, and I've been through, yeah, I've been through a lot of that. And part of it's um part of it's real, part of it's really people making more deals and making connections, drinking. And part of it's just in my head where I think that's what's going on, and then I'm feeling awkward because I'm not drinking. So um, we can't do anything about what people are really thinking if they really do want you to drink with them. But I've been trying to work on my own awkward. Awkwardness and minimize that. Because there were times where I was thinking people were maybe, you know, like seeing me as an outsider because I didn't drink. And then sometimes I found out later some of them weren't even drinkers themselves, but I just kind of assumed everybody else was. So when I'm going to a business event, and I have gone to a lot of business events, sober, many conferences and networking kind of things, um, I try to give myself some grace because I realize even after all this time, I can be uncomfortable. Now, I don't generally, it's not like I think I'm in a drink, but I just worry about feeling really left out and uncomfortable at times.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I try to go to these things and tell myself, okay, I'm just gonna try it. I'll stay 15 minutes and see. And if I feel really unhappy, I can always leave. But it turns out that lots of times it's perfectly fine. I have a good time. And now sometimes I mean, I even I'm sometimes I'm even the last person to leave from an event or a party. Not all the time, but sometimes. So I just try to give myself permission to leave if I need to, but to try to have the courage to go check it out and to allow myself to have a good time if I can.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

No, and that's that's important. You you leave yourself an out, you you show up, you have like a non-alcoholic drink in your hand. Um, you know, you have your your support person that you can call, or maybe they're with you. Um, you know, so those are some good tips that can help you get through these difficult situations.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Yeah, and so I I belong to this one organization called Society of American Travel Writers that I've belonged to for about 12 years now. That's one of my main professional organizations. And, you know, over the years there, there were, you know, I started out kind of like, oh, I don't always belong at these events because everyone's drinking. But then um, as I started to write about sober travel, I started a sober affinity group within it. We haven't really done that much stuff, but I did get a list of names of other people who also are um sober or non-drinkers for other reasons, they're just support, you know, the idea of alcohol-free travel. And so now when I go to these events, lots of times I know that one or two of them are gonna be there. And that's really nice too, because even in a business place, you might identify people of support. And it's just nice to like kind of check in with them, be like, what did you get at the bar? Oh, they have this, okay, good. I'll get one of those too, you know, non-alcoholic thing. It's just a nice, it's a nice feeling of solidarity.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

No, it is, and I like that you found like a little bit of support within your your writing community, your travel writing community. Um, and does that make like if you have business events, do you guys like network together like at business events?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Sometimes. Sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah, that that's good, that's nice. I like that you have that extra layer of support for you if you're going and you have another person you can reach out to or go with. Yeah, that that is nice. I like that. And there's one thing that always, when I was really my sobriety, that was a trigger for me, and that was family events. Oh, for sure. More so than like vacations, or it was always like there's always uh like you're some person in your family, there's always friction, or there's always like some really heavy drinkers, and it's like, you know, that was all that was very hard for me in in the beginning to navigate because no didn't seem like it was a complete sentence to some people. And you know, do you have any any um tricks or or things that have worked for you in in like in like family situations?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah, I can really depend on your family, and some are gonna be harder to navigate than others. Um I guess one thing would just be have an exit strategy if it gets really bad.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Or give yourself just give yourself permission to go for a walk, calm down, call somebody, uh, maybe identify the friendliest people in your family for support. Um, I had one at one time, I wrote about this in my book about when my grandma died and we were real close, and we had this wake for her, and everybody, and like it seemed like everybody was drinking. Like there wasn't there wasn't really for some reason, there was only uh like a bunch of whiskey and a plate of brownies at this wake. I really I was pretty new in sobriety, only been sober a year or two, and I really, really wanted to drink that whiskey. I mean, uh, my grandma grew up with her, we were real close, and it was just super uncomfortable. So I went and I called somebody I knew who'd been helpful in the past, but I hadn't talked to for a while. And then she told me, she's like, Oh, it turned out I didn't have a drinking problem. I'm drinking again. I'm like, oh my God, that was no help. So I hung up from her. And then we were at my grandma's house, and I went out on the porch and I I was like totally freaked out. And my dad came out, and my dad and I um we didn't have a close relationship when I was a teenager. We had a lot of animosity and conflict, mostly because uh I didn't like him telling me what to do when I was, you know, a fully grown up 14-year-old woman and he wanted to have rules. So I really thought he was a dick, you know. At this point, at you know, on my grandma's porch, I was really desperate. So I told him I felt like drinking and I was feeling really uncomfortable there. And then it was amazing to me what he did. So he goes, he goes back inside, no explanation. He's not gonna give away my problem. He just says to people in this angry voice, he's like, We're going now. And I was like, what dad no? Like, we're leaving. And everyone's looking at him like, you know, asshole, what's his problem? So I hope I can say that on here. And so yeah, you're five. But it was like, as soon as he did that, and I saw how willing he was to look like a total jerk in front of everybody, not give them any reason why we were leaving, I realized how much he had my back in a way I had never in my whole life understood. And my urge to drink was completely lifted completely that day. It was completely lifted. And I was like, oh my God, dad, I think I'm okay, we can stay. So then he was just like, oh, okay, we're staying. Oh my God. That was a function to anybody. And um, then we stayed and I was fine. So that taught me this huge lesson that sometimes when your back's up against the wall, you can find support from people you didn't, you know, you didn't know you could. Like, my dad was old school. He wasn't a drinker. I mean, he wasn't like a big drinker, but he had no real conception of alcohol, alcoholism. He knew I had a problem, he was going to support me. So sometimes support comes from really surprising places. So there have been times I've had to ask for help since when I'm in a, you know, when I'm in a jam and I've I've managed to get it.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah. Something that I I I tried to do over the years is just like bring my own non-alcoholic stuff. Um because sometimes like going in the fridge, you know, or the cooler or whatever, you know, you'll just see and that was that was kind of a trigger of like opening the fridge, and it's like oh I can go one way or the other. And so usually if I bring my own, I try very hard to stick towards like my little cooler.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

And um, your 64 ounce big gulp that'll last all day.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yes, yes, yes. Oh, you're all Kathy's drinking a lot of water, yeah, yeah, she is like, you know, and so like it, but

Networking Sober At Work Events

SPEAKER_02 29:20

it is nice to have a support person, and I'm happy that your father could be there for you when you were struggling because that can be it can be kind of scary when you're like I don't really especially in a in a grief situation, you know, that's hard.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Oh, you can feel so alone, yeah. And nowadays, I mean that was before we had the internet, that was a long time ago. Nowadays, I don't think the internet is good as a real is as good as a real person right there, but it could still save your life. You know, you could reach out to somebody on one of your social networks or WhatsApp or whatever and get some help in a situation like that, and that could be enough to get you through too.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

That's a good idea too. A contact a friend on social media, or even just say, like on social media, like I'm struggling a little bit here. And sometimes just yeah, just getting like a like a positive message, like, no, don't don't risk it. You know, your sobriety is too important, can can help too. Um and I want to talk a little about your website if it's okay, trisoburgen.com. You have quite the extensive website, there's a lot on there.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Um, for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

I love it because you have like um you have a bunch of other books on there. You have um stuff about you know uh uh being a vegan. There's like a whole bunch of things that like resources you've put together for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Oh, thanks. Yeah, it's mostly let's see, I'm mostly right about like um sober travel, vegan, outdoorsy stuff, some yoga. Oh, and I have my my um quest to paddle in every US state and Canadian province that I'm working on. I'm only about a third of the way through. I still have a lot of states to go, but I've been into I got into kayaking and paddleboarding maybe 10 years ago. So I'm not super great at it, but I just love to go out for a couple hours and paddle around on any body of water that's not too windy.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

That sounds like fun. Has that been kind of like an activity that you look forward to when you're traveling?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Oh, okay, yeah. And you know, this is another thing I found. So when I'm traveling, uh I travel by myself a lot too, and that's that gives you lots of freedom, but it could also give you lots of temptation. So for me, and also if you have a bunch of free time, sometimes people don't know how to fill it, especially if you're first if you first quit drinking and you used to drink a lot. So it helps to develop just sort of your interests, which you may or may not know right away what they are if you're used to drinking a lot. So I've tried a lot of different things, and now I have certain things that I they're kind of my go-to things if I go somewhere and I have free time. Um, and it is convenient because you don't have to think so much about like, oh my god, what am I gonna do with my time? So one of those things is I always try to rent a kayak or a paddleboard if there's somewhere that's easy. And it has to be somewhere kind of easy if I'm going by myself, because it's I'm not like, you know, some super, super studly self-rescuwer person. So it has to be like a pretty easy body of water if I'm putting it on my shelf. Otherwise, I want to go with a guide, you know. Right. And if there's a guided kayak, I'll go with like a guided kayak thing. So that's one of them. I love, love, love old cemeteries. So I go to go wandering cemeteries. I love, love, love cats. So I'm always going to cat cafes for some feline repeating when they're available. I'm always trying to find if there's a local vegan ice cream. Um, those are a few, you know. So it's it's nice if you you sort of develop the things that you know you really like. And then I like old churches too. Um yeah, and then you kind of have some things you know that you do in different places.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

That's good to yeah, that's good to have a plan because if you know what you want, I get like brochures beforehand and try to pick it up. Okay, well, this is there's a good chance that this is gonna be sober, I can stay sober here, you know, versus going here versus like just landing yourself there and then trying to figure it all out. And because wherever you go out, it's valuable. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

So it's nice to have some stuff planned and then have a little free time for because once you get there, you'll you'll discover other things you didn't learn about online that you might want to do. But I think it helps a lot to have a few things to sort of anchor you in.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Do you have a favorite place that you traveled to?

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Oh, that's so hard. I mean, there's so many, there's so many cool places. Um, I'll I'll just mention one that comes to the top of my mind, although I can't say this is my favorite, but last year uh my husband and I got to go to uh to Belize, which was really gorgeous. And we went to this little island called Tobacco Quay. You could walk across the whole thing in like two minutes, and we still they call it a resort, but it's kind of rustic. They're like just little cottages. Um, I mean, one of the big amenities is a dishpan where you can uh wash your feet off so you don't track sand. And I was like every couple of days they changed the water, and that was in the big amenities. And but we could it has the it's um it's the second biggest barrier reef after the one in Canada, and um I why did I say Canada, Australia? You know, that's okay. The Australian Great Barrier Reef. So Belize has the second biggest one and runs along Central America, and so the snorkeling is fabulous, and the diving, and we were able to just swim right out from Tobacco Quay and and find gorgeous snorkeling with like a lot of fish and really healthy corals. So that was one place I was at recently that I liked a lot.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

That sounds gorgeous, actually. Yeah, and it's nice. I think it's nice to remember that some of the places that you visit, you can enjoy them a lot more if you're if you are sober.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

You know, you can oh yeah, I wouldn't want to risk going out there because we had to swim out of ways. I mean, you don't want to do that in your life, you're putting yourself in great peril.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

No, no, you don't want to do that. You don't want to do that, and you'll have better memories that way too, and take better pictures. I I've looked back at some of the pictures I've taken when I was drinking, I was like, what? Like these are like I thought they were the at the moment, like the best pictures of like pictures.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah, it's getting kind of blurry.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Yeah. And and on your website, I was looking at one of your one of your books. It's it's it's called uh meditations for for gym yogis. And I thought that maybe that could pair nicely with the sober travel handbook. Um, you know, has meditation helped you on your sober journey at all?

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Yeah, um, especially yoga. I've done a lot of yoga. I started doing yoga when I was just a couple years sober, and I've been doing some kind of yoga practice for many years now, and I taught for quite a few years too, which I would like to do again, but kind of the traveling so much got in the way because I was always getting substitutes for my classes. But I taught a whole lot for like 13 years. And it's a um, yeah, the the yoga poses are and the breathing are help a lot with stress and anxiety. And the spirituality is interesting, and a lot of it does correspond. If you follow a 12-step program, a lot of that goes kind of together. Um, in fact, I have a book of a zine that's come out recently that's about um it kind of connects some of the yoga philosophy to sobriety.

Family Gatherings Grief And Exit Plans

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Oh, nice. Yeah, I I would encourage anyone to check out um your website and look at either one of those books. You have more than those two books. There's several other books on your website. Um, and there's a lot of good resources as well for vegan as well. Say, you know, drinking isn't isn't an issue for you, but there's some good information about being vegan there. Um definitely check it out. Um is there anything else that we missed that you'd want to touch on about staying sober while you're traveling? And we touched on quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

It's it's exciting for it's exciting if you it can be scary at first, but it's really exciting to have the opportunity to try out many different things instead of just having the having your activities focus on the bar or drinking by the pool. Like it really can open up and expand your world if you go out of your comfort zone and try different things.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

No, that's a good point. And like you left us with some very good tips. You know, if you're at social gatherings, have a drink in your hand, have a support person, uh, look in a plan before you go, um, have an exit strategy. You know, these are all good, all good ideas and and tips and tricks, and there's a lot more in your book that encourage people to check out if you're traveling, especially you're heading into the summer months. Um, there's gonna be a lot of traveling. And so pick up the book, look at it. It teaches you in different languages how to say, I do not drink alcohol, which I thought was great. I love that. Um and I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with us today. Um, it was nice to have this conversation about traveling while sober not having to be boring.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Oh, yeah. And let me mention one more thing I forgot to I also write a lot for a website called the Sober Curator. So people check the sobercurator.com. And we put together a calendar on there that's about retreat and sober travel groups. So it has a lot of ideas if you if you are wanting to go on on a vacation with a group of other people who aren't drinking. So there's a lot of uh there's a lot of opportunities on there because there's more groups and companies that are doing that now that are organizing trips where people are doing drinking.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Yeah, I'll put that in the show notes as well so the uh people can check that out. Sobercurator.com. That's a great idea. Um Yeah, and try to have try to build a little bit of a community before you go. You know, make sure you have a person that you can at least phone in an emergency, you know, and so you're not like left kind of all by yourself. Like, what do I do in this situation? Especially if you're newly sober, it can be very challenging when you're newly sober trying to navigate um you know, airports and business, you know, networking and all the things. And so, you know, thank you for joining us today. And you know, the website uh to connect with Teresa, and you're on Instagram and Facebook as well, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 39:04

I am.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Yes. And those links will and in LinkedIn and those links will be in the show notes. And anything else I missed? Anything other about you that we missed?

SPEAKER_00 39:16

No, but thanks for all the work you're doing as part of this mission to yeah, normalize non-drinking as an option and help people with their mental health. It makes a difference what we're what we're all doing here. So I appreciate your putting a lot of your time and energy into this.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Well, thank you. I mean, I I've I've I've I've felt that insecurity while traveling, um, even with a little bit of time, being like, oh, I'm that person that doesn't drink. And um, you know, and the pressure, even at my age and the amount of sobriety I have, can be hard sometimes. You know, because people want to ask, well, why don't you drink? It's like I just don't. Like it doesn't I break out in handcuffs. I don't know what you want me to say.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Like, you know, like I never ask the people who order a beer, why do you drink? No, it's always the person who does it. Why don't you drink? But they just told you again how much that's the norm in so many cultures.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah, it's like, you know, I think I I wish we could just like let people just be non-drinkers for whatever their reason. Maybe it's health related, maybe they just don't like it, you know. Just so many reasons. Yeah, just let it be. And um, that's why like when I saw your book, I was like, that's a great idea. And you can carry it with you, that's a good resource. Like if you're at an event, you can keep it in like your bag or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

You can stick it in someone's face like a crop to a vampire if they're trying to make you drink.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

I love that. I love that. That's a great idea. Do you drink? No, but here's a copy of a book I brought with.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

I I do that with I get a lot of PR people. I mean, I get so many things on my email where they're trying to tell me about some new wine spa or wine vacation. And I always I'm like, I'm like, thanks. Not for me, but why don't you check out my sober travel handbook and I send them a link?

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Do you have a business card? Like, does it say like sober travel writer on it?

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I have several business cards. I'm kind of sketchy like that, but yeah, I do have one that has me as a sober travel. I think it's it's like sober travel writer and expert or consultant or something. Yeah, I have one that I have a couple that, yeah, I have a couple that have that.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

I I love that. I wonder if that does that ever uh where people you know still try to offer you uh a drink even after they know your title.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

And well, probably not. But oh, you know, let me show you. I got these extra giant business cards here. I don't know if you saw in my book that I had the sober cat character, who's the non-binary sphinx that had a okay. So I've made these giant oversized postcards with sober cat at that. I sometimes hand it out. Oh my god. So see, there's

Tools Resources And The Next Book

SPEAKER_00 41:40

sober cat. Oh, I love him, and then it has like info about me on the back. So I have different ones. This one's about Sobercat's exit strategy. Oh my god, I love that. Oh my god. And did you paint all those? Yeah, I paint, I paint. So sometimes I uh I give those out now is like a giant oversized business card. Like, okay, you get the point. No drinking, no drinking, no drinking.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

No, but I think it's a fun, it's a it's like it's good that you're marketing yourself, but you're also like here, you know, like you're putting your information out there, but it's always like, hey, you know, this is like a boundary, too.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Yeah, and Sobercat is cute, suitable for sticking on your refrigerator.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

It is Sobercat is very cute, and I know the audience can't see, but uh Teresa has some beautiful paintings in her in her background. Um, she's a wonderful painter, so yeah, those the cards are are wonderful. I love those. Do you ever sell your paintings? Or do you know I do? That's fun though. I like that. And that must be something that you found through sobriety as well, I imagine. Or was that before? Um, was that something like a lifelong kind of passion?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

I've written and painted since I was a little kid. You know, it's like they say sometimes if you're not sure what you really like, think back of what you liked as a little kid. And for me, that's true. It was like painting, writing, music, cats, dinosaurs. You know, I still like all this thing, bugs. I still like all those things.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

No, but that's fun though. But that's that look at all look at like the you sound like you've had a really fun career. You know, you know, and I think that's beautiful. Um, so so thank you for sharing all your your knowledge and your wisdom and your insight and your sobriety journey with us. Um, do you have any other books you're planning in in the future to write?

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I am working on one right now called A Hundred Places to Visit Sober. Oh, yes. So those are places where either there's not a lot of alcohol or the places the it's a like a nature focus or wellness focus, or one of my favorite things, the places that have to do with the historic battle against addiction, either on a personal level or a legislative level. So that'd be things like going to some of the like the AA founders' houses, which are national national historic sites, or going to like somewhere that had to do with um Prohibition or Temperance or like Carrie Nation's house. So yeah, I'm working on that right now.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Oh, definitely let me know when you um when you have that, because I have a spot on my um I'm gonna put a link to your website in the spot I have on my link tree um for like published works of my guests. So I'll add that in whenever you uh whenever you add that book. So I will definitely and I'll make a little announcement. I like to I like to do that. Because I I find so many of my guests have these amazing books and so many published works and we just don't hear about them.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Well there's there's so many writers though, which is so many else writers out here and so much stuff being published that you just can't keep up with.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

No, no, but there's you know, we try to have to push it a little bit, get in the hands of the people who can benefit from it. And um yeah, so so thank you again. You gave us some good resources, and all the links to find Teresa um will be in the show notes. And check out her website, treesaburgen.com. And she has the sobercurator.com and she's working on a book. She's a lot of fun. You seem like a very fun, very fun person to know. So thank you for joining us today. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. And as always, you can find me in the Caller Cat podcast on all major platforms, and uh check the show notes for our link tree where you can connect with the show, follow us on social media for the clips and updates. And um, please remember, you know, until next time, you don't have to carry where you came from. So keep telling your story. You never know who you're gonna help. And we will see you next time.