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The CU2.0 Podcast
This podcast explores contemporary, critical thinking and issues impacting the nation's credit unions. What do they need to be doing to not just survive but prosper?
The CU2.0 Podcast
CU 2.0 Podcast Episode 348 Inside the Mind of Hanscom CEO Peter Rice - from Tax Exemption to Walking the Camino
On the show today is Peter Rice, CEO of Hanscom Federal Credit Union, a $1.9 billion institution headquartered in Boston that took flight in 1951 at Hanscom Air Force Base.
Rice is a repeat guest. His first appearance came in 2021 when he was Chief Banking Officer at Workers Bank. That episode has been reposted as Greatest Hit #25.
On this show Rice’s mind roams across the many issues credit unions are now wrestling with - the possible loss of the federal income tax exemption, possible changes at NCUA in the DOGE restructuring of Washington DC, the retirement of America's Credit Union’s CEO Jim Nussle, Hanscom's acquisition of The People’s Bank (Mayland), pending regulatory approval, and a new WealthTrek facility in Government Center, Boston that is reimagining banking today and tomorrow.
But there’s more. We also talk about Rice’s walks on the Camino de Santiago, where he has three times earned a compostela, a certificate of completion, and he muses about writing a management book about the Camino. By the way your podcast host has earned two Camino compostelas, in separate walks.
And there’s even a detour into the political history of Ireland, where Rice grew up.
This is a show with lots to unpack.
Listen up. And listen again.
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Welcome to the CU2.0 podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, and welcome to the CU2.0 podcast with big new ideas about credit unions and conversations about innovative technology with credit union and fintech leaders. This podcast is brought to you by Quillo, the real-time loan syndication network for credit unions, and by your host, longtime credit union and financial technology journalist, Robert McGarvey. And now, the CU2.0 podcast with Robert McGarvey.
SPEAKER_02:On the show today is Peter Rice, CEO of Hanscom Federal Credit Union, a$1.9 billion institution headquartered in Massachusetts that took flight in 1951 at Hanscom Air Force Base. Rice is a repeat guest. His first appearance came in 2021 when he was Chief Banking Officer at Workers Bank. That episode has been reposted as greatest hit number 25. On this show, Rice's mind roams freely across the many issues credit unions are now wrestling with. The possible loss of the federal income tax exemption, possible changes at NCOA, and the doge restructuring of Washington, D.C., the retirement of America's credit union CEO, Jim Nussel, Hanscom's acquisition of the People's Bank of Maryland, pending regulatory approval, and a new WealthTrek facility in Government Center, Boston, that is reimagining banking today and tomorrow. But there's more. We also talk about Rice's walks on the Camino de Santiago, where he has three times earned a Compostela, that's a certificate of completion, And now he's musing about writing a management book about lessons learned on the Camino. By the way, your podcast host has earned two Camino Compostelas in separate walks. And there's even a detour into the political history of Ireland, where Rice grew up. This is a show with lots to unpack. Listen up. Listen again. Now, in May of last year, you sent me an email. This is the cliffhanger. Where you said, in four days, in four days, I'm going to be doing the Camino with my sons. But I have to be in Lisbon on July 5th to get married. I never heard back from you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, what can I tell you? It's been, my apologies. Yeah, it was kind of a whirlwind experience. Whirlwind, and it's the third time that I've done enough to get the Compostela, right? So it's my third visit. Every visit has... I mean, you never set foot in the same river twice, right? Right. And each one has had a completely different flavor and theme to it, and I feel like I'm doing laps kind of around the track at school again, you know? It's just something that... I can't get enough of it. You know, it seems to be really good for me and really good for the people that I go with. And the first trip was, the first time I'd done the Camino de Santiago was inspired by my first wife who had passed away from cancer. And that was a really, you know, a really rough and raw Camino experience. And, uh, I had my boys with me at that stage and they would have been, um, maybe five, six years of age and three years of age in and around that. And, um, you know, that was a really, really tough, tough walk. And,
SPEAKER_02:um, really, really tough for a three-year-old. It'd be tough for a six-year-old. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:They, they came in and out. I had, I had like a buggy, um, that I, that I pushed them in, uh,
SPEAKER_02:good, good, good.
SPEAKER_01:And, um, Although they did walk, you know, long sections of it. But it was, you know, it kind of, I would describe what this Camino means to me is, it's not that I need time out from life, it's that it gives me height and perspective. And every time I do it, you know, I see things in myself that just, you know, working every day, I don't get to see. I get to see sides of myself, good, bad, and different. And it gives me the perspective to kind of notice it, take note of it, and, hey, see what's going on. Is this something I need in my life? And what do I do and say these things? And how can I leverage this time to come out a better version? And I can tell you, if I'm going to do that, Robert, I'm going to need a lot more Caminos.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah, we did. It was last minute. You know, at three Caminos, one was my first wife passed away. The second Camino was I'd met, you know, somebody very special. And I figured that if she could do the Camino with me, because it's a deep journey, as you well know, you know, it's a very deep journey. And if we came out the end of it, it would be just a great test of, you know, how we're going to be as a team, as a couple. And she's done fantastic, and she'd never done anything like that before in her life. And, you know, both of us are like, right, this is a very serious relationship. And, of course, the third Camino was, I was about to get married, you know, the day after I finished in Lisbon. And, of course, the Camino finishes in Santiago in Spain, and it's not the easiest place to get to. So I had to finish it by a certain time and date to get to the church on time. And I absolutely did. But this time around, what had happened, Robert, is one of our long-serving employees had passed away from colon cancer. That's what my first wife had passed away from was colon cancer. And I just felt that, you know, I felt that, you know, what that first Camino taught me was I was never going to stop grieving. Like, that's never, you know, life doesn't work that way. But what the first Camino taught me was you learn to carry it. And then also what's important, you know, there's parts of the grief that I learned to jettison that were going to be destructive. So when you walk the Camino, as you know, Robert, you pack your bag and you overpack it, you know, and by the time you get to the end, you've got a toothbrush and three changes of clothes.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It really teaches you about what's important in life and what's important in the moment. And grief is the same. Grief is the exact same thing. There are parts of it that are destructive. There are parts of it that are healthy. And the bits that I hold on to is the preciousness of life and that I wish all of our loved ones could still be here enjoying the things that we still can. And I kept those parts of grief, those motivators. And hopefully I dropped or no longer carried the destructive forms of grief. So it means a lot to me. And this time we raised funds for Fisher House in Boston. it's for military families who, you know, good news, who have rare forms of cancer, you know, and the good news is, is, uh, they can come to Boston to, to get some of the best cancer care in the world. But the problem is, is they can't afford the accommodation because hotels in Boston are, you know, three to 500 bucks a night, uh, for a cheap hotel. And, um, yeah, we just wanted to do, you know, something special. You know, I, I wanted to give the, I wanted to give back to the Camino what it gave me and, and, um, you know, keep, keep it going. Um, but I got to tell you something now and, and, um, we're, we're gaming out. Um, we're gaming out right now doing the entire Camino. Uh, so, you know, it's the equivalent of 20, you know, 19 marathons in, in, in 20 days. So we're, we're currently planning on planning for that. Um, because I've unfinished business with the Camino. Generally
SPEAKER_02:that takes about a month. generally
SPEAKER_01:generally takes a month but who has a month you know we got a lot going on here i
SPEAKER_02:actually i talked with a guy who ran it in like 11 days but he was one third my age and much better shape so
SPEAKER_01:the interesting thing is you know people say well how do you plan for that i'm like well you don't need anything in your knapsack that's the whole point you know a few pairs of socks two three changes of clothes t-shirt and your debit card and you're off to the races you know so right It's finding a three-week block of time where I could do it. So we're hoping that we can close on our bank purchase in July. July, August, September are ideal because there's more daylight hours. I could be out on the road for 10 to 12 hours a day. So, you know, we need a lot of daylight to do it.
SPEAKER_02:I did it in September, the second half of September, twice. And the weather... Actually, it was wonderful. It was not hot. It didn't rain. It was terrific weather. And the crowds weren't as thick as they are in June and July.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, I had this very humbling moment. You know, this time I went as... You know, not as a grieving spouse, not as a new spouse the second time, but I actually took a couple of members of the executive team on the third one. So it was kind of, you know, a very different flavor. Obviously, when you go with work colleagues, I think we could write a management book on that week. You
SPEAKER_02:could. That would be, I haven't seen that particular book, but I think that could be an amazing
SPEAKER_01:book. It was an eye opening. It was eye opening for all of us. And, you know, there were moments of great tension and camaraderie and, you know, big health issue in the middle of it all. And as I said to you, I had to get to the church on time and, You know, it was fascinating, to be honest with you. And, you know, I'm always threatening to pick up pen to paper and write about the Camino because it's that kind of experience, right? But it was, again, a very different one. You know, hearing different perspectives on this great thing that we have, this great resource in an age where, you know, everyone's beginning to question everything and truth has become a... you know, malleable commodity, you know, I think it's a great recenter of, of, of, um, this can be great recenter, you know, even if you're not religious and everything else it's, it's, you know, I learned something, I, you know, I learned this very hard lesson when I was in the airport, um, waiting for, for the flight back to the States. And we had our, we had our shelves on our backpack and, um, feeling pretty good you know we we did it you know and um this couple wandered over to me and started to talk to me and yeah you know we we did the camino and he the guy looked at me he said the whole thing and you know what had happened was the executive team that i'd gone with you know this was my third camino so it was a skip it was a skip for me robert it was you know There was no physical, you know, I was well prepared, you know, but obviously when you go in for your first time, you're not prepared. And, you know, I was judging members of my own team on that basis. And, you know, what a lesson for me in the airport, you know, that it's a relative thing and that when I done my first, I was extraordinarily raw and not ready. And, you know, we all like to believe we're good people when we wake up in the morning. And I believe that I am. Don't get me wrong. I believe I do my very best. But holy smokes, you know. So I took that as the shell being passed back to me. Right. And I took that as, you know, you've got to do something that tests you.
SPEAKER_02:And this third one, where did you start? Saria. We started in Sarajevo. All right.
SPEAKER_01:All right. But it was hilarious, too. You know, it was all kinds of, you know, guys, here's what you here's what you need to bring. Nobody brought it. Everybody got major blisters, nearly killed one of us quite literally in dehydration. And, you know, there's always great mirth as well as great challenges, you know, and, you know, the kindness of strangers along the path, you know, along the way. But there isn't one of us that wouldn't do it again. Not one. So yeah, I got to wait to see when the regulator approves this deal. And we think it's going to be July. And of course, I'm always bell-ended by board meetings. I got to be back for the board meetings. So I really only have an opening perhaps at the beginning of August and maybe the beginning of September to do it. But I also need runway because we want to do a national fundraiser for Fisher House when we do it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, cool. Let's talk about the bank acquisition. Bank had assets roughly$300 million, I believe. Yeah, roughly around$300
SPEAKER_01:million.
SPEAKER_02:Two questions. Why did you want to acquire it, number one? Number two, why are you keeping it acting as its own brand?
SPEAKER_01:One thing I've learned in life is that You know, people have a lot vested in the organizations that they dedicate their life. As credit union people, you know, we know that more than most, right? Because, yes, we get, you know, we get paid and we get great benefits, I would hope. But the great payment is seeing our community grow. You know, I don't think there isn't a credit union person that couldn't go into banking and do very well, you know. But we choose to seek value in our lives in a different manner, right? Yeah, we need to provide for families. Yeah, we need to do that, get great joy in it. But there's just something about seeing your community prosper and knowing that you had a hand in it and that the reason you did it wasn't just to make a profit. There's nothing, again, there's nothing wrong about making a profit. It's essential to our economy. But doing good, it's a different form of payment that can never be, it's never taxed and it's never taken away from you, right? So it's pure payment, I think, for a lot of us in the credit union land. There's a couple of reasons why we did this specific deal or began to look for a bank. And mostly, I believe that the community banking model is in deep trouble. It's in deep, deep trouble. I think there's a lot of phenomenal bankers out there who are deeply vested in their community, but the ownership model isn't going to work for communities across America. Primarily, you're focused on the shareholder. And that's why we're seeing banking deserts arise all over our country. And banks, financial institutions, credit unions have always been a pillar in every community you go through. There are now several towns that don't have any and some towns that have too many, right? Some towns of 15 to 20. And yes, digital, the arrival of digital has changed access quite a lot. But as you know, I have a lifelong passion, you know, not just for digital transactions, but, you know, your membership, giving you access to financial guidance, coaching and wellness. You know, we had looked at a couple of a couple of deals. People kind of really sang to me for a couple of reasons. Number one, it's geographic proximity to Washington, Philadelphia, Wilmington, and Baltimore. It's about an hour away. Number two, that this was a community that had done very well because it had a strong community institution. Number three, I think it's a community that's really going to embrace the credit union message. All the local banks have been sold to bigger national players. And they've seen the big national players come in, take the deposits out, and use those deposits in other markets. And number four, the board consciously went out to find a credit union. And this board had gone to credit union conferences, had heard about what credit unions were doing, and they needed to deliver for the community, not just a good stock price for the shareholders. But they really, really looked to find a partner who were going to invest in their areas. And they really looked for a culture fit. And that really blew my socks away about this particular team.
SPEAKER_02:Now, you're telling me that they didn't read American Banker and didn't know that you're the Antichrist.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think they had heard from other community bankers. So if you think about it, I understand the fear of community bankers, which is– they're limited by their model to expand into other communities. And then I think they fear that, look, if I expand into the next town over, if I'm the West Town Bank and I go to East Town, who am I? You know, who am I? What's the bond? And that's what's happened across our nation for, you know, 50, 60, 100 years. But because credit unions tend to be mission and value centric, you know, geographic as well as industry, as we know, our bonds tend to be stronger across geographic barriers when we have that kind of credit union. And I think that's why credit unions are becoming really attractive, you know, or have been really attractive across our country. You know, these things are not real barriers to us. And I think that there's a great argument and debate. As we all know, it's raged for a long time and will rage for a longer time to come. Nobody is forcing these institutions to sell to credit
SPEAKER_02:unions. That's what I always say. Peter Rice did not go to Maryland carrying an Armalite wearing his IRA uniform. He didn't do any of those things. You waived a check and they said, oh, cool. It's...
SPEAKER_01:You know, I tell you, as an industry, you know, there's well, you know, we should never negotiate ourselves against ourselves and we should never negotiate against our members and the ability for an American to bank where they want to bank. And so I see no reason to, you know, tax these deals extra. You know, most of the time in the deal, there's a tax true up, which is the equivalent of and we should never feel guilty for our mission. I mean, we do pay taxes. You know, we pay local taxes. We pay federal employee taxes, Medicare, Medicaid. We might not pay income tax, but that's not something we should have any guilt about. That's something by design. That's why our model is different. We're not for profit, and that's the key, and that's the strength to us keeping on going. So the other thing I'd say in the grand debate of things is we buy and sell assets all the time. As credit unions, we buy and sell assets from banks and other institutions all of the time. They don't complain about that. We're not seeing cacophony over that. And if you think about the moral argument that's been used, which is we should tax it, does that mean every time a bank customer opens up a credit union loan that the IRS is losing tax money and therefore there should be a tax on that? You know, I mean, that's the degree, that's some of the arguments that I've heard are irrational arguments. But again, I also think, Robert, that these are parlor side conversations. Most bankers really aren't talking about it. They're not particularly worried by credit unions. It does seem to be the independent community bankers association. And I think they are fearful because, you know, They could sell to a bigger bank, but they know what happens. Or they could- And
SPEAKER_02:I agree with you. And you said this some minutes ago that community banks as a species are endangered. Yeah. And it has nothing to do with credit unions. It has to do with- Nothing. Big trends that are happening in the banking and the fintech world. Agreed. Agreed. And do community banks- provide a service. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. Absolutely do. But nonetheless, I view them as really, they're on life support. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And because of their business model, they haven't had the ability to invest as much capital in the evolution of their communities or their banking model. And it's a great shame. And But it doesn't have to be a disaster story. So obviously, just us going into that section of Maryland is going to be a game changer for those communities. And it's going to provide them with a great option and a vote as a member. A lot of them, because they're not shareholders, don't get to vote in this transaction.
UNKNOWN:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But they will as members. And they'll have a say, a stake in the financial support of the community going forward. So I'm looking forward to, you know, I've already obviously been down there meeting with some community leaders. And, you know, they've been so welcoming. And I think it's just a tremendous opportunity for us. And one we're looking forward to closing on hopefully soon. Are you going to
SPEAKER_02:be dividing your time between Maryland and Boston?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think, you know, we've actually been in Virginia for 20 years, Robert. We've had a location in McLean, Virginia, for 20 years. We have 10,000 members in New Hampshire. We have about 5,000 members in Florida. Actually, our longest serving and most engaged members are actually all in the state of Georgia. Wow. we've got about a thousand members in georgia who have the who have the longest duration and the deepest relationships um and um you know we're up and down the eastern seaboard and again hanscom is is not really a geographic entity it's you know our core member our you know military federal employees their families and anyone who served america um so we're actually quite broad i think our name and you kind of brought up um the people's bank name. In the negotiation, when you're sitting negotiating things like this, whether it's a credit union deal or a bank deal, there's a lot of emotion. It's their life's work. You're talking about their life's work. We started off this conversation by talking about grief. A lot of the time, people are grieving for this great entity that they gave their life for.
SPEAKER_02:Most of these community bankers that you're dealing with, usually their father or their grandfather started this bank. It doesn't go much beyond grandfather, maybe great-grandfather in a handful of cases. But it's a family business, and they've had some pride in this business, as they should. And giving up that business, you want to give it to someone who will be a good steward. Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So it's no skin off our nose to agree to keep... It can't be called People's Bank, of course, but it will be, you know, People's, and underneath it'll say Powered by Hanscom. You know, on the shingle, as an ode, you know, they've been around for over 100 years. I think that we can afford a tip of the cap, you know, to that kind of legacy and history. And, you know, as the staff and community, as we deliver on the promises that we've made to them, right? So in the long scheme of things, I think that that's the right thing to do and a good thing to do and an appropriate way to, as I said, to acknowledge a great legacy. What's
SPEAKER_02:your view? Will credit unions lose their tax exemption?
SPEAKER_01:I think we all know that that would be devastating for a lot of small credit unions.
SPEAKER_02:I'll tell you, I've heard this from a very smart guy. He thinks it would be most devastating to the really big credit unions, many of which would demutualize.
SPEAKER_01:It's not so much the paying of taxes. It's the equity then in the model.
SPEAKER_02:It's
SPEAKER_01:the business. He said they'd
SPEAKER_02:have to change their business structure fundamentally, and if they're going to do that, they might as well demutualize.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and I think that that's one of the longer-term goals of the banking associations, is exactly that. I think they see credit unions as actually ripe for a merger opportunity, but how do you convert them? How do you get them to become banks? And so, you know, I think they right now they have, you know, their point in the moral finger. But, you know, as I as I as I game this out and there's a lot of bigger credit unions game it up because one of the things, you know, within our industry is negotiating against ourselves. And what I mean by that is, oh, sure, tax the bigger ones, but not the smaller ones. And number one, taxes just don't work like that. You know, taxes are they're important, but they're also a little bit creeping and insidious at times. So once you agree that credit unions should be taxed. It won't be long before we're all taxed. And then you get the bigger credit unions who might see it as a great merger opportunity for smaller credit unions to finally merge into the bigger credit unions. And, you know, that's all well and good, but I think then you'd lose a lot of flavor and color that credit unions bring to the table. If that happens also. So, you know, if people are going to merge, Robert, I really I would prefer if it wasn't because of taxation issues. I'd much rather marriages be based on positivity issues. Of course, this is the reality of business. I get that. But, you know, I, for one, I'm rooting for all my credit union cousins out there who are serving unique groups of people who've been marginalized for one reason or another. And they see this as a great way to, you know, build their community and provide extra benefits, you know, that the market just doesn't. So it would make me very sad to see us taxed. And, you know, my argument has been, and, you know, if anyone follows me on LinkedIn, it's been, you know, I can't believe that any administration would be looking to increase taxes. But it is a double tax. Our members have already paid taxes on their money. And, you know, they're not getting any profit in return. It's a different model completely. But I do think, yeah, that bankers would love to see us taxed because they realize that a lot could shift to a banking charter. And, you know, that would be an interesting time, wouldn't it?
SPEAKER_02:Who do you compete with? Who are your competitors? And some years ago, I asked, this is going back several CEOs, the CEO of Navy Federal. Do you compete with PenFed? Is that your primary competitor? He said, no, my primary competitor is USAA.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I'm going to give you what will seem to be too clever an answer by half, which is I'm competing for the member, period. I know that there's people out there doing great things, bigger and smaller, in terms of asset size or, to your point, ambition. But I think part of the reason for our success and part of the reason why we're able to be so agile and do all these new and exciting things is because we're very focused on the member, the basics of business. I built my career one member at a time because if you're not good in that next interaction, it could cost you a lot. You know, if you're off with one member, you give one member, you know, very bad service, you know, it could destroy a career and their lives too, right? So I think the other thing is, you know, we're very comparative. And I think this is a good thing, a very comparative industry. And a lot of boards, and I went through this with my board when I arrived, which is what are other credit unions doing? And we were comparing ourselves all the time to other credit unions. And then we've done some data analysis and found out that the vast majority of our members bank with Bank of America and not the other credit unions who we've been comparing ourselves to for so long. And that was kind of eye-opening for all of us because... If
SPEAKER_02:you have a competitor, not you, but pretty much all credit unions, with young members, your competitor is Chase or B of A.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Chase and B of A. And the interesting thing there is... Bank of America grow our size in Massachusetts every year. Right. And people hate them.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, it's normal. It's normal. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_01:But so what we have to do or what I have to do again is why? Then you really got to get under and find out why. Right. this is happening because I'm willing to bet that most of the credit unions that listen to your podcast have NPS scores that blow Disney away, you know, and of course we would point that to a competitive advantage and it is, but we seem to be losing the fight with younger members, you know, and it's interesting because the younger generations are, you know, value driven. They want a better world and they want a better community and they've had more time to do these things, right? We have different kind of different jobs than we had 50, 60 years ago when we were all working in the metal and steel plants for 12 hours a day. You really weren't looking around. You didn't have the time to look around and say, what are the other things that I can do that can enrich my life and my community? The modern economy that we have gives a lot of us that kind of luxury to start debating the bigger things in life and how to be a better society. And I think it's a shame that credit unions are often left out you know of those discussions you know credit union is something granddad and grandma did um and more worrisome um and this is anecdotal i don't have data on this point um is the amount of accidental members we have and what i mean by that is they came in through a you know indirect auto loan or indirectly to the credit union and then cycled right back out again and then of course interestingly as i talked to you know, members of Congress and the Senate, you know, about credit unions, a lot no longer know how we work and that we're democratic in nature. So, you know, the great news about this tax fight is that it's getting, it's shaking all of us up and reminding us that we've got to get out into our communities, not just our member community, but the wider community and tell people how and why we do things and why that matters to communities.
SPEAKER_02:One thing that worries credit union lobbyists that I've heard is that a generation of members in the House and the Senate were very pro-credit union. 70%. It's not like the younger ones are anti-credit union. They just aren't credit union people. They haven't heard about credit unions. Might as well tell them about life on Mars.
SPEAKER_01:Life on Mars, that arrived because access to credit 50 years ago was very difficult. 50 years
SPEAKER_02:ago, if you were a factory worker in Lowell, you got paid in cash in an envelope every other Friday. It was cash money. You didn't have a checking account.
SPEAKER_01:Nope, you didn't have one. When you went for a loan... You know, if the bank gave your father a loan, you would have gotten a loan and it would have been done on the handshake, right? So, you know, society is different today. People have a lot of choices. But, you know, I really think we're missing out on a great opportunity to make informed decisions. I mean, we've seen whole generations, you know, stop using... plastic, stop eating certain kinds of food, all based on their research into how that impacts societies and environments. And yet here we are with this tremendous model that could be a great vehicle for so many of these changes that we need to make, and it's going untapped. And again, we're fantastic. We have all of the technologies that the bigger guys have. But I think if we can just harness and tell our story in new and exciting ways, I think we can get more people to join. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Are you involved in organizations that help tell the credit union story? Yeah. And I know Acuna from time to time has done this. I've never actually thought they did a very good job of telling the story. I thought the intention was admirable, but the execution didn't really work for me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think what happens is We're the good guys, right? And, you know, whenever our political leadership see us coming, we're like, hey, we're the good guys. And the whole political apparatus is based on problems. Solving problems. So we're not a problem. So we're always kind of, you know, here's the nice guys and that's it. Like we're not involved in the in and this is a very generalization. So forgive me, everybody, because I know some of you out there are. So, for example, you know, I see my job as advocating for my members. My primary vehicle is to do that through through banking. But I probably spend about 25% of my time advocating on bills, be it from disabled American veterans, be it bills that we're proposing. So I do a lot of lobbying. This morning, I was at a breakfast with a freshman congresswoman, Maggie Goodlander from New Hampshire, and she's on the Armed Services Committee. You know, so every week I'm meeting with some congressional leader on other issues that are not necessarily direct credit union issues, but that impact my community. And what I'm doing is I'm letting our leaders know that, you know, Hanscom's got 100,000 members who love their country, who have served their country or their family member served their country. This matters to them and it matters to me. So, you know, Pay attention. You know, this is an important issue for the members of Hanscom and their credit union movement. And, you know, that's why the banks and other companies have been so successful lobbying. They don't just come out when there's an emergency. They're out leading all of the time on the issues affecting their community. And I
SPEAKER_02:think that's how we- Yeah, a lobbyist told me that. And he wasn't bashing CUNA or America's Credit Union. What do you think? If you want to have influence on a member, you can't just go once a year and walk the hill. You have to develop a relationship over time, not just with the member, but with the member's staff. And you don't need to go to lunch once a week, have a cup of coffee every so often. You say, drop by, say hello. And don't ask for anything. Every once in a while you come up with an ask, but some of the time you're just there saying hello, blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_01:That's how it's done. So you asked about, yes, I do. I chair the DCUC, the Defense Credit Union National Advocacy Fund. And I also serve on CUNA's World Affairs Committee. And, you know, tremendous organizations. So
SPEAKER_02:you must be a fan of Tony Hernandez because he's made this organization much more aggressive than I remember it being.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, Tony has, you know... He's been the first to notice things from the watchtower. He's really, really been an effective leader in the credit union organization, not just for defense credit unions, but the entirety of our organization. Oh, absolutely. And he just, of course, hired Jason and You know, on that lobbying side, and Jason is just, he's dynamite. He knows the hill well. There's a very firm strategy there. We talk all the time. We're engaged. You know, I'm also on the New England Council, which is a body of the six states in New England. And New England only has about 5% of the population, the United States. I'm probably going to infuriate half the listeners here with this. with this next brag, but we've got 12% of the Senate. You know, with 5% of the population, 12% of the Senate. So the New England block is quite important, you know, on issues of voting. So, and the area tends to take a regional outlook on things. So, you know, I spend my time heavily working with, you know, the elected officials from this greater New England district because they tend to go in with the Team New England view. You know, they realize that, you know, Massachusetts can't do well without New Hampshire doing well. You know, we can't do well if Connecticut's not doing well. And, you know, while New York is not in New England, you know, believe it or not, outside of baseball and sports, we do want our adjacent states to do well as well, right? Just not in sports.
SPEAKER_02:Upstate
SPEAKER_01:New York. has a lot in
SPEAKER_02:common
SPEAKER_01:with
SPEAKER_02:New Hampshire.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. And the Berkshires, absolutely. You know, you raised an interesting point, right? So there's a state line there, but the Berkshires extend into New York, you know, and Connecticut. So, yeah, it's... And it's great, you know, and I know NAFCU and CUNA merged to America's Credit Unions. And, you know, I think Jim Nussel has done a great job, I think, bringing to, you know, I know a lot of people were unhappy perhaps with the merger, but that's a reality.
SPEAKER_02:Some people tell me DCU has gotten more aggressive in part because it's filling a void that was left by the end of NAFCU.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that Tony and team and our wider team really recognize the existential threats that we're facing.
SPEAKER_02:And here's the deal. Nobody in Congress is anti-military. Nobody. Yeah, nobody. So if Tony goes or his lobbyist goes and knocks on the door, okay. Yeah. I like you guys, if I'm a member of Congress.
SPEAKER_01:Tony is a straight shooter. You don't have to wonder where he is. I know where he is. He's on the front line right now. He's dialing some congressperson or some senator. Him and Jason. It's been a pleasure to get involved and to see such vibrancy on behalf of credit unions. Anyone can join DCUC, by the way. As long as you have one Everybody has at least one veteran or serving military. Every credit union does. You know, it's a couple of books, you know, but it's money so well spent. I mean, these guys are on it and they work in cooperation with, you know, with America's credit unions and with a lot of our regional, certainly here in the CCUA, up here in the Northeast and Delaware. I mean, I'm hand in hand with those guys too. But, you know, but Tony is right there in D.C., along with Jason. And they know how to navigate that world. And they see the threats coming for all of us. So I'm just delighted with that organization and the support that they give to all the credit unions. And you're right. They are aggressive in representing credit. us because they realize the great existential threat. Some of it was the unfortunate Navy Fed and the banking contract on the bases, the threat of reopening the Credit Union Act on that basis. That was a real existential threat to our industry. And here we are two years later now with the other lobbies going, hey, these guys over here are They're doing these things. They have airplanes. They have baseball stadium sponsorships and so on and so forth. The fight has really opened up, and I think Tony was the first to call it. He got it right. I like seeing his aggressivity,
SPEAKER_02:and it's well-channeled. He's not just throwing punches here and there.
SPEAKER_01:No, Tony is extremely considered and Jason. And, you know, I have the inside baseball on this one because I work with them. Very, very considered. And they're also gaming things out. They're not reactive. So, you know, a couple of weeks ago we had CDFI. They were on the phone. CDFI was announced on Friday. They were on the phones at 5 a.m. on Saturday morning. And as we all know, you know, CDFI now is back in game. You know, they were ready. because they take time to invest in strategy. not just tactics. Couldn't get, and they're a small but mighty team, you know, but they are on it. You know, we have this sacred duty, right, to make sure that we pass this thing on. And if we don't get in the fight now, you know, we could be taxed. There are several bills out there that are existential threats. And make no mistake, you know, wherever your credit union is, you've got to get in the game. You've got to get in this fight right now. And one thing we know, regardless of whoever you voted for, you know, that the administration right now makes decisions quickly. So don't be waiting. You know, don't sit in the sidelines. The president moves quick, you know, so you could wake up in the morning and he could say, you know, absolutely, credit unions need to be taxed. And that's it. It's over.
SPEAKER_02:Let's hop into your questing room in Government Center in Boston. I was reading over the press releases this morning. I remembered Government Center once upon a time was called Scully Square. And it was basically a skid row that was ripped down in the 50s. I mean, just obliterated. And every time I see Government Center, I say, oh, Scully Square. But I'm an old guy, so...
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no. No, I think the true Bostonian would probably still call it Scully Square. Oh,
SPEAKER_02:I lived in Boston in the early 70s, and there was many people called it Scully Square. Yeah, yeah, still, still. I'm
SPEAKER_01:very blessed to live in this area and have access to the history that Boston has, and particularly the... its impact on the history of our nation. We're very proud of it here. We're very proud that the revolution began here. Boston
SPEAKER_02:also intertwines with Ireland in a way that no other American city really does.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's that shared love of freedom. It's that shared love of, I don't take my freedoms for granted, given my heritage and background and watching my home people struggle for freedom for 800 years. And, you know, never give up and not be diminished, but see things such as your religion, your language, and your culture, you know, attempted to be destroyed and, you know, attempted genocide through famines. You know, we have a long passion and history with freedom. And, you know, for me growing up as a kid, I dreamed of coming to America so I would know the dignity of a job. It was the height of my aspirations. The dignity of just having a job that I could send money home to my mom to make her life a little easier. And that was the same dream as all the other kids. Ireland until
SPEAKER_02:mid-1990s was pretty close to a third world country.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it absolutely was. Yeah, it got better after I left, Robert. Seems like I was the drain on the National Exchequer.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But they actually made some smart moves. They got Apple to open up. They got Dell computer to open up. I mean, they started doing some smart things in the 90s.
SPEAKER_01:Well, when I grew up, and I'll tell you where that change came from, because I know the moment and I know the person. Ireland, when I grew up, still had this colonial hangover. still very unsure of itself. You know, confidence wasn't there. We'd won independence, but what next? And, you know, we had relatives all over the world. Every Christmas, these people would come back from America and Australia and England and Canada. You know, their teeth were white and straight and their clothes were clean, pressed, and they had not just jobs, but they were managers and lawyers and doctors. It just blew our minds. And there was a degree of resentment, you know, here come the Yanks or here come the Aussies and they're going to say that they're Irish and they're not because we're the real Irish because we stayed and suffered. And that was the mentality. And then the country elected its first president who happened to be female, Mary Robinson. And Mary Robinson started off this beautiful tradition. And for those of you who are wondering about the links between the strong links. I mean, the White House was designed by an Irish guy, an Irish architect called Hoban. And he also designed the American ambassador's residence in Ireland. America didn't exist at the time. And the current president of Ireland's house. And it's a miniature copy of the White House. The same building, it's just smaller. And she decided to light a candle every night in the window for all the people who had emigrated and the families that had been ripped up due to trauma. It was like, for the first time as a people, we could confront the trauma that we experienced in losing family members. One of the stories I tell you, and you undoubtedly know this, Robert, is what we call the American Wake, which is the night before you emigrated, your family, and forgive me as I get a little teary-eyed, but your family would throw your funeral because they knew they were never going to see you again. It's dramatic in only the way the Irish could be dramatic. But that was the truth. It was the last time they were going to see these young people in their community. And so they threw a wake. And for those who don't know what an Irish wake is, we celebrate death a little bit differently. We celebrate the person's life. And it really is a hooli. It really is a party and it's full of great joy and mirth. But if you think about that, it's heartbreaking. And don't get me wrong, I think everybody was delighted to see their folks go and have these better lives. And we all believe in our children. The only people in your life who really want you to do better than them is your family a lot of the times, your parents. But communities then were desolated. All the young people, all that energy left, all that innovation left. And the effect it had on the country was to stay socially stagnant for a very long time. Um, but Mary Robinson really, you know, lighting that candle allowed us to confront that part of our history that we hadn't confronted. And again, for, for listeners, Ireland is a tiny, tiny country with 5 million people, but around the globe, there's about 70 to 80 million people who claim Irish heritage. You know, it's, it's, it's amazing. So we're very proud of that legacy now as a, as a nation that we had these great roots, these common bonds and, um, Mary, President Robinson's thinking all of a sudden developed these great business relationships because the other great builder of communities is business. And today, Irish companies employ 200,000 Americans in America, and American companies employ 200,000 Irish in Ireland. And we have these ancestral links, common language, common law. We have the same kind of legal system based on common law. And Ireland, as you pointed out, in the 90s, you know, became this great destination for businesses to gain entry into Europe and vice versa. You know, America became this great market where, you know, Irish companies, tech companies, et cetera, could do business and links with. So it's been this great rediscovery. And I myself, you know, like a lot of listeners, I've done my DNA test and was stunned to find out that I've know over four thousand uh second and third cousins here in america you know just the impact anatomy was tremendous at the time so the questing room so what what what why that when we we think about relevance you know i'm i'm always looking around the world and you know i'm i spend a lot of time with folks who are older than me and a lot of time with folks who are way younger than me and i'm always fascinated by the commonalities and the differences and the differences in culture here in America. There's a lot of different cultures and perspectives. But there's these common threads that run through every culture. And as you probably know, Robert, I grew up in Ireland, spent a lot of time in the United Kingdom, and at one point spent 20, 25% of my time in Japan. That was my original undergraduate. I worked for the governor in Nagano Prefecture for three years. I'm someone who's always trying to find the commonalities. And one of the things I've learned When I'm struggling with things, and I'll give you an example, you know, I get this great scholarship as a young kid and they send me off to Japan on this scholarship and I got to go learn the language and, you know, you're reading these books in college and, you know, it's business, business for, or Japanese for business people. And I just wasn't getting it, Robert. I just couldn't, there seems to be bits that I was missing. So I remember walking into a bookstore and seeing a mother take her two children, a young boy and a girl, over to the book section for three-year-olds and give them books. And I saw these kids start to read the books. It triggered something in my mind, and I said, wait a minute. I'm reading a business book here in Japanese, but what about the first 20 years? I'm missing that whole education, that whole evolution. So I went and I bought all the books for three-year-olds. Then when I finished them, four, five-year-olds, six-year-olds, seven-year-olds. And within two years, I was able to yap away in the language fluently and then go work for the governor of Nagano Prefecture. And again, it was learning to play to learn, I think, is something that we forget as we grow older, even though play still becomes a major part of our lives. So there isn't an adult that I don't know that doesn't play golf or some sport or pickleball. There isn't a person that I know hasn't been to some sort of coaching or hasn't paid for coaching for themselves, their children, or their pets. But nobody thinks about applying these tools that we have as humanity to the area of financial well-being.
SPEAKER_02:And when companies have done it, I remember the first generation of PFMs. They were about as exciting as flossing your teeth. They really were. Were they bad tools? No. But it seemed like drudgery. Oh, wow. How many minutes do I have to floss my teeth? It's, okay, if you say so. And what would happen after a week or so? Most people would give up. Yeah. Nothing wrong with the tool. Nothing wrong with
SPEAKER_01:the tool. It's, you know, to this day, you know, I still think when I'm out visiting the branches that someone's going to ask me to leave, you know, because the stigma I had growing up about banks and banks judging you and, you know, were you good enough for credit? You know, just trying to tap into those experiences that I had in my own life. then look at people around me and then there's this you know these other big challenges you know which is outside of transactions how can i really live out the credit union mission and of course i said the last time i was on your podcast that the word credit comes from the latin credo which means to believe and um you know how can i prepare our members um for what's ahead their dreams and challenges and so we began to experiment and and the other thing i think about our industry is innovation is punished. It's punished. And we don't invest enough in it. We do a lot of white labeling. And that's a financial necessity for most of us most of the time. But we really, really wanted to take a little bit of risk here. But we wanted to pay make sure the risk was being taken on our mission and values. You know, how are we delivering on our mission statement, which is to be the trusted advisor that people turn to for unbiased financial guidance. So in other words, how can we encourage our members to make their best decisions? And so for years, as you know, I've been a really solid advocate of financial wellness and coaching. But when we talk about coaching, it's not financial literacy. It's your behavior with money. And how money, how all your behaviors are done good and bad through money. And also, you know, are you getting value in your life? And then using data to support, you know, that member on their journey to making decisions that add value to their lives. And I've seen tremendous result with coaching programs and particularly here at Hanscom. You know, the statistics around the coached member and the uncoached member are starkly different in terms of, you know, their engagement with the credit union, their usage of the credit union and all of our services and channels, and the impact on their emotions and their own individual balance sheet. It's quite stunning, to be honest. So then the next question came, what are we going to do in our branches? You know, other than coaching, how could we... build upon a stigma-free and make us vibrant and relevant in our communities, an actual destination. And I don't mean, you know, I know there's credit unions. People go and they eat their lunch at work. At work time, they go to the credit union for lunch or they get a coffee at the credit union. But I wanted to create and we wanted to create a space where it was safe for members to come in, engage, have some fun, And I don't say that lightly, by the way. You know, go down to the credit union and have some fun. To fail small and win big, where our members could actually begin to experiment with their hopes and dreams and break down some barriers. And you do that through play. And so we decided to build out questing rooms. Now, I know a lot of your listeners have probably been to an escape room or a quest room with some description. If you haven't, you really should. I strongly recommend that you should take your team to one of these locations because they are the best place to study your team dynamics. They're a great place to learn about yourself and your team because you go in with a mission under a time constraint. So it creates the right amount of pressure that's safe. And you're going to see how your team perform on tasks firsthand and see how they work together or not, what styles people have and what styles they don't. And so that was, by the way, an unexpected consequence of these questing rooms. And we're now actually working with our SEGs to bring the companies that we support as a team day or a team event to the WealthTrack Center to go through the questing process. So we opened, our first one was in Burlington, Massachusetts, and that was a pilot. We deliberately opened a pilot branch to test it for six to nine months just to build a use case, but also so that we could tweak it and get it right. And if you were to go to Burlington, It's a great challenge. It's very, very kind of analog and not much data collection available in the room. But we got tremendous feedback from it. And we actually began working with Regis University here in Boston. And I'm very proud of this. Regis University, we began working with Mary Jean Hughes, who's a professor at the occupational therapy department over there. And she just happened to be a member. She discovered the Burlington Room and began to take her graduate students there. And all of a sudden, you know, through conversations, we said we've got to get together and start to see, you know, is there ways that we could partner and what could this room or quest and concept do? So again, for the listeners, occupational therapists, their main goal is to develop independence in their patients so that they can go back out into the community and live full lives. And so occupational therapists work with, you know, stroke victims, wounded military patients, folks who are going through some mental health issues, folks who might be on the spectrum, folks who might have Down syndrome. And their main task is to bring these people together and again, teach them independent community skills so their self-esteem builds and they can go back out into the community. And so we started that process and the graduate students studied it, began to think about applications and then noted the health benefits that questing could have with folks who are bipolar, folks who'd had strokes, you know, this room was helping them win back their self-esteem through play and the ability to communicate with others and do group programs. And they all enjoyed it. Everybody who's gone into these rooms from the age of six to 86 is the eldest person we've had in there. I've had two star generals in there, Robert, and they've had a great time and you can hear them laughing their heads off and engaging in a way in their finances that perhaps they hadn't thought possible before this. So we're really, really excited by the concept. We've been testing it for about a year and a half now all told. And so we decided to open one in, as you pointed out, Scully Square in Boston, which, you know, anybody knows, city centers globally tend to go through, you know, periods of great wealth and great destruction. The government center in Boston is It's teetering on the edge right now of either it's going to go one direction or it's going to go another direction. And we saw this great opportunity as a credit union to get in there and make sure that Scully Square went in the right direction. Because I think, you know, again, banks were pulling out. This was a great opportunity for us to win as a credit union and put this beacon of positivity and community inclusion in an area. where families, schools, and groups could go through the questing process. But we decided to wait a little bit longer than perhaps I would have liked because we decided to make it a far more digital experience so we could collect data on it and that we could give to teams after they were finished. We could give them specific data points for their team and themselves to kind of encourage. But we also decided to do something a little bit different with the theme of this place. The theme of our WealthTrek location in Boston is based on fraud. Because I don't know one person in this nation who has not gotten a fraudulent text or email. And the amount of members and family members who are falling for it is just unbelievable. The fraudsters are that good. And we all know this. I mean, they're professional businesses. People go to work at the fraud office all day long. This isn't being done out of a basement somewhere. These are being done out of office blocks in cities. And we decided, how could we build confidence? Because anyone who falls for fraud, and I'm sure your listeners know this, it's not just the money that's gone. It's the self-esteem. It's the fact that you were fooled or you felt suckered. And it really, really is a blow. And if people are elderly or young, like I think about my son, he's built up so much pride. He's 15. He's very independent. But if somebody stole money from him, I think that that would be a real blow to his self-esteem. Today, you'd shake your finger and say, watch out for this and watch out for that. But we've built an interactive experience that actually puts people through it in a fun manner so that when it does happen to them, they're very prepared. And if they do fall for it, they also know what to do next and so that they don't panic. I
SPEAKER_02:still remember being scammed out of 20 bucks 30 years ago. Was the 20 a big deal? No, it wasn't a big deal. was that I was scammed. Yeah, I'll tell you my experience. And honestly, 20 bucks really didn't matter. What mattered was my sense of self was shattered. You fell for this, you fool.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I've got to tell you a story, but it's not my story. It's my sister's story. But she lives in Ireland, so I don't know that she'll ever listen to this, so maybe it's safe to tell it. She's a very accomplished surgeon, very brilliant person. You know, one day she went to school with her rock collection, her semi-precious stone rock collection to show to the teacher. And when she came home from school, some kid had replaced it with pebbles from the yard outside the school. And, you know, like you're saying, to this day, I mean, the cost of it was a couple of books, but she still talks about it as raw today. as the day it happened. You know, it's like you feel, it just steals so much self-confidence. And of course, there is the many cases, as we know, where people do lose their, and of course we follow the regs on it all, but, you know, initially they think they've lost everything. it's it's awful especially our our you know elderly mem members and particularly our members who deploy uh they're they're extremely prone to it because you know they're they're they're not able to if you're on a mission in afghanistan you're not getting you know text alerts you know so we we do see that within our community one last
SPEAKER_02:question
SPEAKER_01:yep uh nestle
SPEAKER_02:You
SPEAKER_01:know, I think if you want to go out on top, I think if, you know, Jim...
SPEAKER_02:He's kind of leaving with unanswered questions, though, like tax exemption.
SPEAKER_01:His background is steeped in political leadership, and... very few people with that kind of background, you know, they, they, they know that they do these things for a time and that there's so only so much that you can achieve. I think Jim has always throughout his career. If you look at his career, he's kind of always known the moment. And he, I
SPEAKER_02:think he's 65 or about just about doing the math. I said, Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What a, what a, you know, what a career. Not just representing us, but representing his district. And I think the other thing that we might forget is that's a 24-7 job. I mean, these guys, these leaders, whether you agree with their positions or not, they give it all. You cannot go into Jim Nussel's position or Tony Hernandez's position and be a slouch. It's going to be found out very quick. I mean, they work their socks off. They give it all. I wish him well in his retirement. And I think that whether people agreed with NAFCU or some of his positions or you're great supporters of Jim, and he has many, I think you have to salute him and say, good for you. You stood up. You've done your thing. I think the tax fight is always going to go on, by the way. I just think it's particularly vicious at the moment because our the banking lobby understand the chaos that that that as america reshapes uh that this is
SPEAKER_02:the issue that guys i was talking with a lobbyist who said you know you can think that this is this is debt that this has got but then you have to be alert to a reconciliation you know where two sentences could be stuck in it at four in the morning Yeah, that's what happens. And no one will ever read those two sentences before they vote on it. And he said, right now things are so volatile, you can't assume anything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but we're seeing– I was down there a few weeks ago, and I was in a congressional leader's office talking to one of his chief of staffs, just a really, really great guy, credit union guy. He serves on the board of a credit union company. And he just talked about the loss of talent that we're experiencing right now in D.C. that a lot of the seasoned operators are retiring because this change is particularly chaotic. Well,
SPEAKER_02:this Republican Party has nothing in common with the Republican Party from 10 years ago. Not a thing. So if you were part of that Mitt Romney world... You look around and say, oh, wow, it's totally different. I've landed on a different planet. And you might say, I'm not comfortable on this planet, or no one likes me anymore, as the case may be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that can happen. But just to finish it off with Jim, I think if you look at what he's done, I think Bringing the two organizations together, that was a hell of a task and very controversial, but the members voted and our democracy spoke. Jim got it done. Jim and the team got it done. As I said, I think some of the issues that are still on the table are going to be on the table forever. I don't unless we get it enshrined in the Constitution. And even then, I think that we're always going to have to tell the American people or fight for for that right to be tax free. I think it's going to keep us honest to Robert about about where we are and why we should be. And I think it gives us a reason to connect with our representation. And I think that's a great thing. And I also think that if that's our biggest fight. That's one we can win. We can win this all day long. So I wish Jim well. We'll see what happens at America's credit unions. We'll see. I'm sure that'll be a very interesting process to see who will who will take the mantle. But I wish him well. And again, we have other organizations out there too, DCUC, Tony, as we talked a lot about, and Jason, really making sure that there's someone on the walls. And I think that's what I'd be worried about as Jim steps away into a very well-deserved retirement. We just have to be extra vigilant. And We should also never be overdependent on the trade organization either. This is not work that we're, and I'm forgetting my verbiage here, that we're contracting out.
SPEAKER_02:CUNA also has a history of, who was CEO of CUNA before Nussel? It was Cheney, who was a credit union guy who quit to take the job at schools first. I guess he realized that he really was happier working for a credit union than working for a trade association. They've had a history of flipping between a political animal and a credit union person. If you're betting money, you'd say probably they're going to get a credit union person.
SPEAKER_01:MIKE GREEN That's an interesting viewpoint. One of the great, great strengths of Nussel was he was Republican. He was an elected official. He understood budgets and the budget process because he worked in the White House on that, as we all know. So I think they were invaluable. That was invaluable inside of baseball for us. But he understood as a politician, too. You know, I look at. you know, Tony Hernandez's advocacy. And again, he's just, he's tremendous. He's passionate. He gets it done. You know, whoever it is in America's credit unions, you know, we at DCU, so you look forward to working with them, you know, to make sure that credit unions are vibrant. You know, yeah, I think all of us worry about regulatory overreach, particularly in credit union land. And, you know, that'll be interesting, right? At the NCUA, as things progress, we'll see where that goes. But make no mistake. You know, the current administration is going to change world order as well as American order. And, you know, my job in that is I've got to make sure that Hanscom, its members, and the credit union, then our wider credit union family, do well during this period and any other. So the mission stays the same, Robert, whoever's in the White House. The thing that I remind people all the time of, and it's not necessarily a popular thing, is the people of America did speak, whether you agree or you don't agree. President Trump has a very specific mission. You need to find ways to negotiate with him that get his mission. That's how he is, and that's what people elected him for. The consequences, I think, are extraordinarily scary. And it is a sea change in the way that we've dealt with allies before, for sure. And so we'll see where it goes. We'll see where it goes. But I also think that any president also has a pragmatic side. And... You know, I think one of the things that I've learned through this whole process is, you know, as an American is we've all seemed to have lost the ability to listen to the other side and what scares them and what motivates them. And I think that if we're to be a better nation, you know, whether you're Democrat or Republican, you know, we really need to learn quickly about that and how to communicate better as a nation. If
SPEAKER_02:in Ireland, Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael can be partners in a coalition.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just for the listeners, that's more extreme. That's an even bigger extreme than Trump and Biden sharing the presidency. And I'm not exaggerating.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, heavens no. I mean... I'm not exaggerating. It's the long fella versus the big fella. I mean, there's a hundred years of divisive history here. It's...
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but I think that's the point. That's where my optimism is coming from, Robert, is you can– Well,
SPEAKER_02:they're united against Sinn Féin.
SPEAKER_01:Well, sometimes it's finding the greater enemy, right? Well, I think that's their greater enemy, right? Yeah, sometimes it's finding that enemy, and that's the thing with the political system is– You've got to be there, you've got to be passionate, and you've got to be committed. As I said, regardless, my mission stays the same. We have to find a way to work with the Trump administration, whether I have reason to believe a strong amount of my members voted for him. But whether it was him or Biden or Harris, there's always a threat to credit unions. There's always more legislation, less legislation, tax. Those issues remain the same, but we've just got to be vigilant.
SPEAKER_02:before we go think hard about how you can help support this podcast so we can do more interviews with more thoughtful leaders in the credit union world what we're trying to figure out here in these podcasts is what's next for credit unions what can they do to really really really make a difference in the financial scene can't all be mega banks can it It's my hope it won't all be medical banks. It'll always be a place for credit unions. That's what we're discussing here. So figure out how you can help. Get in touch with me. This is rjmcgarvey at gmail.com. Robert McGarvey again. That's rjmcgarvey at gmail.com. Get in touch. We'll figure out a way that you can help. We need your support. We want your support. We thank you for your support. The CU 2.0 Podcast.