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The CU2.0 Podcast
This podcast explores contemporary, critical thinking and issues impacting the nation's credit unions. What do they need to be doing to not just survive but prosper?
The CU2.0 Podcast
CU 2.0 Podcast Episode 366 Hear a Credit Union Member Tell How Her Credit Union Makes Her Life Better
This is a CU 2.0 Podcast first.
Never before, in almost 500 episodes, have we done this.
On the show is Crystal Zarse, a member of Interra Credit Union, a $1.7 billion Indiana based institution, and she is here to tell about her experience using the Prizeout Cashback+ debit card which rewards users with cashback often around 10% of purchase price, sometimes much more.
Focus on that. Here’s a member who has taken time out of her to tell what benefits she gets by using the Cashback+ debit card that Interra issued to her.
Also on the show is Joel Richard, an Interra senior vice president of member experience, and David Metz, CEO of Prizeout.
Metz has been on the show before and what got him a return visit was when his PR person, Andrea Holland, emailed me to offer up a credit union member who would talk about how Cashback+ makes her life better.
A big gong went off in my head. I had never before done this in a show…and yet credit unions trumpet that they are member focused. Credit unions are here to improve the financial lives of everyday people.
I had to do this show and, honestly, Crystal Zarse is everything I could have hoped for in a guest.
Message to other credit unions/fintechs: If you want on the show, grease your path by lining up a member to join the mix.
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Welcome to the CU2.0 podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, and welcome to the CU2.0 podcast with big new ideas about credit unions and conversations about innovative technology with credit union and fintech leaders. This podcast is brought to you by Quillo, the real-time loan syndication network for credit unions, and by your host, longtime credit union and financial technology journalist, Robert McGarvey. And now, the CU 2.0 podcast with Robert McGarvey.
SPEAKER_03:This is a CU 2.0 podcast first. Never before in almost 500 episodes have we done this. On the show is Crystal Zaris, a member of Intero Credit Union. That's a$1.7 billion Indiana-based institution. And she is here to tell about her experience using the PrizeOut Cashback Plus Debit Card, which rewards users with cash back often around 10% of purchase price, sometimes much more. Focus on that. Here's a member who's taking time out of her day. to tell you what benefits she gets by using the Cashback Plus debit card. I'd never before done this in a show. And yet, yet, credit unions trumpet the member-focused. Credit unions are here to improve the financial lives of everyday people. I had to do the show. And honestly, Crystal's ours is everything I could have hoped for. And a message to other credit unions and fintechs, if you want on the show, grease your path by lining up a member to join the mix. Listen up.
SPEAKER_05:I am David Metz. I'm CEO and founder of PrizeUp.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm Joel Richard. I'm the Chief Experience Officer for Interra Credit Union.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm Crystal Zars. I use the Cashback Plus through my bank.
SPEAKER_03:Through your credit union?
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Crystal is a
SPEAKER_02:member of our Interra.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes. Now, I think this is a first. I don't think I've ever... had on this, and I have about 500 episodes, I don't think I've ever had a member talking about member experience. Now, I've had credit union executives who are members. I'm a member. What the heck? But I've never had someone come in and talk to me about member experience. That's kind of what, when Andrea sent me this idea, I said, I've never done this. I have to do it. It's like... Now, David, look right here, though. I'm getting offers from Discover and Venmo with cash-backed debit card deals. How is this affecting you?
SPEAKER_05:It's not. It's great that they're doing that. We're obviously partnering with credit unions. Most of our credit union partners, the vast majority of their spend is on the debit side. On average, we're giving... Each debit card is around 7%. which is about 2.7 times more than any credit card can give. Ours is merchant funded versus interchange funded. And then in addition to that, we're also paying the credit unions more money than they would have made on interchange as well. So there's really, there's three parties. Obviously, there's the credit union making some more money than they would have non-interest income. There's the debit card users that are getting more money than even the most robust credit card programs in can get. And then obviously we take a piece of that as well because that's how we make money at PrizeOut. So what Venmo and them are doing, I don't know. I don't know the percentages. I don't know the economics and all of that stuff. But I think the world is waking up that the majority of spend in this country is the debit card. And since 2008, no one's really been able to fund it just because interchange is too low, especially if you're over$10 billion. But it's still a huge portion of the population, I think people are just now trying to figure out how can we reward that subset of users as well.
SPEAKER_03:Interchange is under real assault right now. How does that
SPEAKER_05:affect that? All of our financial institution partners realize that interchange is a race to the bottom, right? Um, if you're reliant on the rails, um, it just keeps going lower and lower. So now you, you know, everyone is kind of challenging the traditional rail system. You've got pay by bank, which is essentially what we do. You've got things like stable coin that's really being embraced, um, by the government and others. So like there are more options are starting to, um, starting to present itself. And I think usually when there's a problem that's, you know, we're a very entrepreneurial country, people step up. and try to solve that problem. And I think that that's what you're seeing now because you're right, it is under threat and it is a race to the bottom.
SPEAKER_03:Now, Joel, how many of your members are using Zapper in the future?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we have about 2% of our membership. We have about 90,000 members total. 2% of our membership is using it today. I think the sky's the limit though when it comes to that. I think we have a tremendous amount of opportunity. The great thing about having our members spending patterns and being able to watch those things. We can target them with specific offers. Again, it's all about getting money back in people's wallets. And I think we have an opportunity to grow that by using the data that we have access to. And PrizeOut's been a great partner in helping us to do that. Again, our goal is to get money back in people's wallets so they can use it for whatever they need in their lives and their goals and their future plans and their families. And I'm glad Crystal's here because I think she is a great person that can talk about how that's impacted her personally. And I don't want to commandeer the conversation, but I think it'd be great, Crystal, to hear a little bit from you about the things that it's done for you.
SPEAKER_03:That's where we're going next. Tell me who you are.
SPEAKER_01:I am a mom of three kids. Two of them are grown, but they all are still at home. I homeschool my youngest. I work in a factory. I am trying to go back to school also so that way I can be at home and have more of a flexible, you know, flexing schedule for my kids. The cash back has helped a lot being a single parent. Not to dig too much in my past, but yeah, I've went through the divorce and stuff like that pretty much wiped out my entire 401. And then shortly after that, I went through and the guys don't know about this part. And I actually got some really good news. I had my mammogram the other day and it came back clear because two years ago I did have breast cancer.
SPEAKER_05:Congrats, Crystal. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah, this is kind of like a tough time emotionally for me this year. But clear on that, it has actually been a financial burden on that part. So cashback has actually helped bits and pieces of getting things put back together financially because a little bit goes a long way. And a lot of people don't understand that. So like a couple dollars here, a couple dollars there. And it's all instant. So it goes straight into my bank. I don't have to wait for it. I don't have to mail in anything. It's just a quick get into my app. put in the amount I need and then confirm it and it goes to a barcode and I scan that barcode and then instantly I have that amount. I can put it into my checkings or my savings which I'm putting into my savings so that way I can kind of do a little getaway like a weekend getaway just to get out of the area for a minute.
SPEAKER_03:Where are you using the debt card?
SPEAKER_01:I am actually using it on Amazon online. I am using it at my Kroger's that is local to me. And then Walmart. That's the normal places I shop. And then sometimes they'll have like really good deals on like, instead of like a 2% cash back, they'll be like once every so often there'll be like a, a bonus one of like 20% or something like that for one day. And that's when you want to really keep your eye out for that. And that makes a really big difference because it's like getting free.
SPEAKER_03:How do you find out about that 20% bonus day?
SPEAKER_01:Um, get emailed. Usually I get emailed and then I go ahead and kind of keep up with, um, the app. I'll go ahead and check in and see if the percentage has changed from the normal 2% and to see if it would ever, if it's going to go up or anything like that. But usually, usually an email, I'll get an email and then it's like, I mark it on my calendar. Like, here we go. Cool.
SPEAKER_03:What's the biggest savings that you can remember that you've gotten?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, gosh. Close to$20. I try to buy in bulk at the grocery store.
SPEAKER_03:So that was$20 from Kroger's, probably.
SPEAKER_01:I think so. And
SPEAKER_03:how often do you use this card? I mean, is this daily?
SPEAKER_01:Pretty close to daily. I would say probably three times a week. Even if it's getting like milk and bread, you know, I go ahead, I put it in. I mean, I'm going to spend the money anyway. Might as well make a couple cents off of it.
SPEAKER_03:So this owns your wallet, basically. You don't sit there looking at, oh, I got this credit card. Maybe I should use this. No, this drops in your hand first.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it comes straight out of my bank account. And then the Cashback Plus, it stays put and you can transfer it into the account that you just spent from or you can put it into any account that's linked to the app.
SPEAKER_03:Joel, how did you find out about Crystal?
SPEAKER_02:Well, we were taking a look at the list of our top users. There are some at the top that are pretty heavy users. I would say like Crystal are using it for sure weekly, if not daily. I think we just started going through that list and seeing if we could connect with someone that'd be willing to actually sit down and talk about their experiences. crystal was uh nice enough to be willing to do that and i this is uh you know we've talked multiple times um so it's been really and each time is a little different you get a little different story uh each time or a unique experience that crystal's had that's uh refreshing for me as uh the person that's in charge of experience for the credit union because you hear the stories behind you know, the products and the things that you do. I think that that's why you do the job, or at least that's why I do the job. So it's been, it's been awesome to hear from Crystal. And, and I think we keep trying to also talk to our, our top users to find out what things they like about it and what things we could continue to iterate and do a little bit better.
SPEAKER_03:What don't they like
SPEAKER_02:about
SPEAKER_03:it?
SPEAKER_05:More merchants. That's what the hell
SPEAKER_02:is. Merchants are usually like, I think, David and I have, or at least Eliza and I have talked about a couple of times like Menards and Meyer, and there are a couple of key merchants around this area that if you look at our debit card spend, they would be in that top five category. And so I think, yeah, more merchants. And then, you know, I think just being aware of the deals that are available is something we continue to get better at. We want to put that money back in people's wallets. And I keep saying that, but it's important to us and it's important to me. And so we just need to continue to work at getting the message out there.
SPEAKER_03:Now, David, Crystal said she primarily uses the Kroger, Amazon, and Walmart. Are those some of your more generous business
SPEAKER_05:members? It's all geographical. If you're a Suncoast member, it would be... publics, right? Our Stanford University, which is a lot of college kids, it's all Uber and DoorDash, right? So it's really where you live, your age, your situation. So it really depends from credit union to credit union. I always say this, if you've met one credit union, you've met one credit union, they're all so different. And that's the same with their spend. But there are certain things like Amazon, it does not matter if you're 18 or 80, you're pretty much a using Amazon. But yeah, it really, it depends on demographics and geolocation.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I remember you've had in the past some really terrific deals from Amazon and Kroger's.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, my, my deal is when I said, I got to get this card. I still haven't gotten it, but yeah.
SPEAKER_05:We have really generous deals on travel, cruises. We tend to really dominate cruises because we're giving 15% to 20%. That's a high bucket item. If you're spending a couple of thousand dollars on a cruise, if you're getting 15%, 20%, that really adds up quickly. Again, it really depends. In order to be top of wallet, you have to get the everyday purchases. Everyone does gross What's the best thing?
SPEAKER_03:best amount that you've gotten so far?
SPEAKER_05:So there's so many stories. There's an exec at Langley, she's retiring and she booked herself and her husband treated themselves to this really exotic cruise. And she got$1,800 back from that trip, right? And when I saw her, she couldn't help but show me her phone and show me the amount they got, right? That is a one-off, once-in-a-lifetime type thing, right? But the fact that they were so proud of that is really cool. And we do things, we just did something for Prime Week, I think, as Crystal was alluding to. We'll definitely do stuff on Black Friday and the holidays and all of that. So I think people really, because it's a gift card, you don't have to spend it all at once. When I was a little kid, my dad told us about, cans of tomato sauce. It was on sale at 10 cents a can. And he made me and my two other brothers go and we each had a cart and we loaded up all three carts because it was one of those once in a lifetime things. So it took us about three years to go through all of that. But when there's a great deal, you just really have to seize it. And every so often our merchants are doing things like that. And it's great that the credit unions email them. They do banner ads. They do whatever they can to get the word out. And then also you see it on social network. I love going on to different credit unions' Facebook pages and seeing everyone talking about it, right? That's when things are really starting to pick up. We've only launched the app maybe like three or four months ago. But right now, on average... 36% of previous debit spend is now going through the app. So slowly, we're becoming the primary way of paying for things. And that's really cool.
SPEAKER_03:Cool. Crystal, the money you're getting in cashback, what's it enabled you to do or to buy that you don't think you could have bought or done?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, gosh. I bought a pair of shoes. I know that sounds kind of... silly, but I always take care of my kids first. And I bought a pair of shoes, a really nice pair of shoes off Amazon, of course, so that they were on sale. And then I got cash back for it, too. Cash back on your
SPEAKER_04:cash
SPEAKER_01:back. Yeah, cash back plus, yeah, on it.
SPEAKER_03:That's terrific. Occasionally you're treating yourself, but you're also buying stuff for your family, etc., Yes. No, it's a terrific story. Joel, you have more stories like this, do you?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, we have gobs of stories, I think. I mean, I can tell personal stories of experiences that I've had. But it's like David said, it's just making everyday spend earn you a little bit more. Like A good example of that is for whatever reason, our family loves Texas Roadhouse. We love Texas Roadhouse. So I use that one a lot. They're typically offering anywhere from nine to 10% for me. So every time I go to a restaurant, that's 10, or go to Texas Roadhouse, that's 10 bucks back in my wallet for my family. So we use that consistently. We buy groceries at Walmart. Walmart always has cash back offering. Again, it's the everyday spend that you're earning more on. And it's better, as David was saying, better than any credit card offer that I have. And as both Crystal and David have said, it kind of becomes habitual. You go back to the app and you're like, oh, I wonder what I can earn on today. And just like Crystal, I love buying stuff for my family, whether it's like Fanatics or Nike.com or places like that for my son who loves that type of stuff. Those are birthday presents that I can pre-purchase gift cards. and then use them when the birthday rolls around. I think that's incredible because you get to take advantage of the offers when they're happening. So there are stories like that all over the place from our member base. We have one member that's just a super heavy user and they've earned a significant chunk in cash back over the time that they've been using the product. And so you look at examples like that and I don't have any specific things that they earned on that, but Just to have that money back in your wallet and be able to use it for things like Crystal was saying, even if it's a pair of new shoes or a new outfit or a vacation. Some people have earned enough to pay for a vacation. I think that's a pretty big deal.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, David, you're probably not going to answer this question. I'll ask you anyway. How much cash back did you send to credit unions members last month?
SPEAKER_05:It's a good question. I'll have to look at that. We've given millions since we've launched. But it's significant. Right. And it's just a dollar amount on a spreadsheet when you look at it. But until you actually hear member stories, it doesn't feel real, right? So the more stories like Crystal's that I get to hear, the more me and my team, it just like fuels us, right? Because again, for far too long, debit card users have been ignored. And it's just really nice. We haven't put money back in their pockets.
SPEAKER_03:Now, I love to hear a story like Crystal getting a pair of shoes that she otherwise doesn't think she could have gotten it. To me, that's what a credit union is here to do, is to empower people who don't necessarily have a ton of money, but let them live a better life.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's not about money. It's what the money unlocks, right? It's just money, right? Whether it's buying your kid new cleats for soccer practice or whatever it means, right? That's the value to it. That's really cool to see. And everyone's got such unique stories and everyone's in different situations, right? You don't know until you sit down and talk with them. And there is no better industry than credit unions on actually knowing their members. Credit union industries are the only industry i've ever come across where like the ceo knows every single story it always flows to the top that doesn't exist and we work in lots of other industries so um but that experience is kind of gone from being offline to digital. So for us to be able to kind of give back digitally and through payments, it is an extension of what credit unions, what their ethos is. So we're just proud to be part of it.
SPEAKER_03:How many credit unions do you have now?
SPEAKER_05:Probably have close to 60 now. We kind of started with some of the the biggest. It just made sense from a scale standpoint and our size. And it really ranges all throughout geography, whether it's the Northeast or the West Coast or the South or the Midwest. We have representation everywhere. I think we have like 8 million credit union members now.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. Yeah. When you started, the CUSO had a big, big credit.
SPEAKER_05:Suncoast. Golden One, and Patelco, and Idaho Central. You know, we have, yeah, we definitely have some of the top credit
SPEAKER_03:unions. Those are also the big players in CUSOs as a rule, so.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and when you say that, that's just another word of saying they're progressive, right? And they're trying to actively, from a technology standpoint, invest in things that are going to improve their members' lives, right? And CUSO is the best way to do that, so.
SPEAKER_03:Now, Crystal, When you shop, are you always looking for discounts? I mean, I remember years ago, I used to clip coupons from the Sunday newspaper.
SPEAKER_01:I still do that. I really do. Oh,
SPEAKER_03:I didn't know they still had them in newspapers.
SPEAKER_01:For like Kroger's, yes. For Kroger members, yeah, you'll get coupons and stuff like that. But yeah, so even saving even more. Yeah. But, yeah, I look for manager specials, anything that's– like Kroger's will have the weekly digital deals, and I'll make sure I stock up on those. Yeah, and then coupons on top of that, and then the cash back pay that is on there. So I'm saving more one way than another, but it is very convenient– not to have to clip a coupon and just pay with my phone with the app
SPEAKER_03:now do you have other credit cards
SPEAKER_01:no i do not own a credit card
SPEAKER_03:and uh so this is that's that's interesting that's cool that's uh
SPEAKER_01:Nope, I haven't had a credit card since 2008.
SPEAKER_03:Was that your divorce? I went through a divorce too. It's the most economically devastating thing in my life.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I know. It financially beats you up. That happened about six years ago, the divorce did. No, 2008. I can't remember the details of it, but I wasn't a credit card person. I was always like, if you can't buy it, with cash, then you don't need it. Except for your home and your vehicle. Otherwise, I go without. I
SPEAKER_05:wish more people had that philosophy. There's a reason why we're$2 trillion in credit card debt. No kidding.
SPEAKER_03:One of the cool things about the debit card is that it's not a debt instrument, which is nice because debt will Catch up to you someday. Now, do you wish there are stores that you could use this card at that aren't in the program or they have I
SPEAKER_01:would mention that. Yeah. I am. I do shop at like, um, dollar general and yeah. Menards when appliance goes out, we don't like those expensive things, but when one goes out, it's a big chunk. So yeah. Menards would be awesome. Cause I do believe Lowe's is on there. Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Lowe's is on there.
SPEAKER_01:Lowe's is a little bit farther away from me. Um, there's home depots on there. But I like Menards. I don't know what it is. I like Menards.
SPEAKER_05:It's a Midwest thing. I've never heard of it until we started partnering with Midwest Credit
SPEAKER_01:Union.
SPEAKER_05:But yeah, everyone in the Midwest loves it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would say more stores, more like that would be great.
SPEAKER_05:I
SPEAKER_03:assume you're still adding stores.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, yeah, we're always adding stores. I think we're close to getting Dollar General, so that'll be a good one for you, Crystal.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_05:And it's always dictated by the credit union, right? So if we, you know, when we open... credit union in Texas, like HEBs, became really important, right? So again, it's really dictated by the size of the credit union and where they are geographically. Because, you know, having McDonald's and Burger King and Taco Bell and things like that, they're everywhere, right? That doesn't matter, right? So you want to make sure that you have a good representation of the local surrounding merchants as well.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Now, any merchants... that had been big players dropped out of this?
SPEAKER_05:No. No, because again, a lot of the members are making purchasing decisions based on which merchants are there. So if the merchant's not there, that means you're just going to use your debit card and you're not going to get cash back. Or you can choose a merchant that's there and get cash back. So that's why the platform is an ad tech platform, is because we're changing consumer behavior. So if you're not a merchant participating in the program, you're at a real disadvantage. Because as we continue to grow and grow, you're talking about millions of dollars a day that's flowing through our system that may or may not be going to a particular merchant. So that gives us and our sales team a lot of leverage to go out there and make sure that we get as many merchants as possible.
SPEAKER_03:And also the merchant, I'm gathering from what you told me, can change the rate that they're offering dynamically.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, it is very dynamic, right? It depends on the person, the day, seasonality, all of that. So it's very dynamic, the bonuses.
SPEAKER_03:Now, Crystal, when the credit union asked you if you would do this, why did you say yes?
SPEAKER_01:At first, I hesitated because I thought it was a scam. Hey,
SPEAKER_03:good for you. If I got that call, I'd say this is some kind of scam. Who are
SPEAKER_01:they? I had to look into it and yeah. And then I said, okay, I'll, you know, be all right with it and then see if it's legit. It's either that or I'm going to panic and have to, you know, close my bank account and all this other stuff. I'm like just preparing myself for it. But yeah, I've always, I'm a very helpful person. I really am. I try to go out and help whoever I can. I like giving advice. I know I'm pretty good at that, whether people take it or not. Yeah, my oldest daughter, she's like, I love your advice, Mom, but I hate it because you're always right. That's coming from a 20-year-old.
SPEAKER_05:you know, fraud is rampant, right? So when you get an email saying, click on this link and download something, right? That's like almost the antithesis of what credit unions are telling people, right? So when you get your credit union saying you should click on this link, that would sound sketchy, right? So Crystal definitely probably did the right thing and was cautious. Harder when you're new and nobody knows when you are, when you start becoming larger and your friends have it and family members have it, it just builds that trust, right? So it's always slower out of the gate in the beginning, especially since it's digital and credit unions are really good at telling their members to be wary of scams and things like that, especially when it's like, we're going to give you money. That sounds sketchy in itself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's a common first thing I get. Like, what's the catch? Like, there's no catch. There's no catch, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Hey, when I first talked about this, Darlene was on here telling me about it. And I said, Darlene, you sound like a Times Square hustler from 1975. And she grew up in New York, I believe, and she got the joke immediately. She did, yeah. Brooklyn. Well, I think, Crystal, before you go, just send me your debit card number and PIN. That's all you have to do.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:It's, it's a Prince. I
SPEAKER_03:just need to verify your identity. That's all. No, I think she
SPEAKER_01:does a really good job of alerting me that was this you and stuff like that. And that's what I love about my credit union, that it was this you, was this activity you, and then I have to say yes or no. And if I say no, everything's locked. So that's awesome thing about Interra.
SPEAKER_03:Cool. I think I got what I wanted from you folks. Crystal, I really, really, really appreciate your time and I hope you get maximum benefit out of this prize out card.
SPEAKER_01:So far, so good. They treat me well.
SPEAKER_03:Before we go, think hard about how you can help support this podcast so we can do more interviews with more thoughtful leaders in the credit union world. What we're trying to figure out here in these podcasts is what's next for credit unions. What can they do to really, really, really make a difference in the financial scene? Can't all be mega banks, can it? It's my hope it won't all be mega banks. It'll always be a place for credit unions. That's what we're discussing here. So figure out how you can help. Get in touch with me. This is rjmcgarvey at gmail.com. Robert McGarvey again. That's rjmcgarvey at gmail.com. Get in touch. We'll figure out a way that you can help. We need your support. We want your support. We thank you for your support. The CU 2.0 Podcast.