Rise and Lead
Rise and Lead
Beyond the Broadcast: What Really Matters When Everything Falls Apart with Mike Barrett - RAL 94
On this episode, Beyond the Broadcast: What Really Matters When Everything Falls Apart, Benjamin sits down with Mike Barrett, the longtime play-by-play voice of the Portland Trail Blazers, whose career and story have inspired countless fans and leaders across the country and around the world. They dive deep into what it takes to prepare at the highest level, how to lead under pressure, and why relational capital is one of the greatest currencies you can carry through life. Mike opens up about seasons of transition, being fired from his career as an NBA broadcaster, and the powerful reminder that our identity is never anchored in titles, positions, or platforms - it’s anchored in God. Whether you’re leading a team, navigating change, or simply trying to show up faithfully in your own story, this episode will challenge and encourage you to rise with resilience and lead with confidence.
Episode Quote:
"What you thought buried you was actually planting you for purpose. What you thought was breaking you is actually building you. Pressure is forming resilience. Loss is awakening compassion. Pain is preparing you for greater authority and deeper impact. God wastes nothing—not even your tears."
This episode, like all Rise and Lead Podcast episodes, is highly practical and motivating. Don't forget to subscribe to the Rise and Lead Podcast to ensure you get notified when new episodes release every month. When you share about the podcast, make sure and tag @benjaminlundquist, and he'll always try and give you a re-post. Remember, the best time to rise and lead is now!
Reach out to Mike by email:
22mikeb@gmail.com
So when you say, were there any compliments that meant a lot or that I really took to heart, it wasn't until I was fired, until that really had those moments, which I guess isn't unusual. I had some during it. For sure. I had coaches who would go watch game film and come back and kind of like laugh about a moment because we had kind of a funny broadcast and my partner was certainly funny and shocking at some points and a character to be sure. So yes, all of those compliments along the way meant a lot, but it's odd that most of the ones that meant the most came at the end.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Rise and Lead. I'm Benjamin Lundquist and this podcast is all about personal growth and leadership. Thank you for listening and for being a part of our Rise and Lead community. We are a community of leaders who are passionate about growth, leadership and expanding our impact on the world. On this episode, I sit down with Mike Barrett, the longtime play-by-play voice of the Portland Trailblazers, whose career and story have inspired countless fans and leaders across the country and around the world. In this conversation, we dive deep into what it takes to prepare at the highest level, how to lead under pressure and why relational capital is one of the greatest currencies you can carry through life. You can carry through life. Mike opens up about seasons of transition, being fired from his career as an NBA broadcaster and the powerful reminder that our identity is never anchored in titles, positions or platforms. It's anchored in God. Whether you're leading a team, navigating change or simply trying to show up faithfully in your own story, this episode will challenge and encourage you to rise with resilience and lead with confidence. The Rise and Lead podcast is designed specifically to motivate and equip you to live your greatest life with maximum impact. We are going to find out what makes great leaders great and how you can start growing yourself, rise, expanding your impact, lead and living the life you have been created to live. We are stronger together. That's something I'm always coming back to and I want to personally invite you to be a rise and lead partner in spreading the word about this podcast and all the episodes that will follow, so together we can reach more people. Remember to subscribe so you can get all the episodes that release every month. Rate the podcast. I'm always going for a five-star rating. If you think Rise and Lead deserves five stars, I would greatly appreciate that. Leave a written review, your reviews they make a huge difference and finally, share about Rise and Lead with your family, your friends and your social media network. Screenshot this episode and send it to someone, or text someone the episode link. You are helping people rise to their next level by connecting them to an episode. And when you share about the podcast as a social media post or story, make sure you tag me and I'll always try and give you a repost. Your input, ratings, reviews and shares help our team to continue creating a better podcast experience to serve great leaders like you. If this is your first time listening, I'm so glad you're here. I know your time is valuable and I hope this episode arrives right on time for you.
Speaker 2:I like to start each episode with prayer, so let's pray together. God, I lift up every person listening right now. You know their story, their struggles and the pressures they're carrying. Remind them today that their worth and identity are not defined by titles, achievements or what others think, but by you. For the listener who feels the weight of transition or loss, bring your comfort and peace. For the one under pressure, give them strength and clarity. For the one longing for deeper relationships, show them the power of building with trust, grace and love. And for all of us, keep our hearts anchored in you, the one who never changes. Let this conversation spark courage, fresh vision and renewed faith in every listener. In your name, we pray amen.
Speaker 2:As we step into this conversation, I want you to lean in, because Mike's journey is not just about basketball. It's about God opening doors, often in ways we could never script for ourselves. For Mike, one of those doors was the incredible opportunity to step into the role of play-by-play announcer for the Portland Trailblazers. It wasn't random. It was the result of preparation, faithfulness and the right relationships at the right time. So let's dive in, as Mike shares how that door opened and what it ultimately taught him about calling leadership and identity.
Speaker 1:The Blazers then decided that they were going to expand their broadcasts to the point where they would need a studio host for radio, halftime host, post game kind of a. They had magazine shows that ran on the TV stations. They thought I could do those. They had gotten an NBA, wnba team. They thought, well, we can throw him on those. We have a magazine called Rip City Magazine. He can write, so we'll make him the editor of that. We need content for the game program, so we'll make him do that.
Speaker 1:So I did all of that stuff at the same time. So my early stages of when I started working for them was everything I was doing everything. And then, lo and behold, two years later I got the chair, the play-by-play chair. I think there were a couple of guys who were very pivotal in my life and when I look back at being done playing baseball, I was in Burger King in Corvallis one time and I ran into a guy who was an umpire because I played youth baseball and American Legion and state league and high school and all the way through.
Speaker 1:And this guy who was always an umpire, I always got along with him really well and we just ran into each other and he said what are you doing now? And I said, well, I'm done playing baseball, so I don't know. I'm taking classes, but I have no idea for a major. I don't know what I'm doing. And he said why don't you come work with us in media relations? If that meeting hadn't happened, I would not be sitting here right now and I would not have had the time in the NBA. I just wouldn't have had those opportunities. So we all look back at chance meetings and when somebody runs into your life who maybe you didn't expect, that was one of those. To be sure, that was a watershed moment.
Speaker 2:What has Oregon meant to you when it comes to showing you about investing in a community and being part of a community?
Speaker 1:Well, I think I think probably what set me up the best for that was the fact that my dad was a coach in a relatively small town. So when you are a coach in a relatively small town, you know, you're well known and you're watched and your words matter, your actions matter because you're under a little bit of a microscope. So I always watched that and my dad always had such a good way of how he dealt with his players and with you know, because, as coaches know now, even at the high school level, you're under a lot of scrutiny and a lot of criticism and a lot of crazy people and you're you're. So I watched how he handled that and I still have newspaper articles now talking about his coaching style and how he was not a berater and a stomper of the floor and all these things. And so following his lead a little bit into that set me up, for I already knew what that meant to be under that kind of a microscope and to be a leader of men and how to handle it and that your words matter a ton and that how you talk to people, how you address you know, you speak at the Rotary Club or whatever, like you do as a coach and I would go to a lot of those things with my dad and I saw how well respected he was. So I really saw, I think, what was the proper mentality, the proper approach and how much value there is in the way you hold yourself in the community.
Speaker 1:So it was very unusual, by the way, to get this job in the NBA so close to where I grew up. That just doesn't happen that much. When I looked around, like when I got into the NBA and got to know a lot of my peers for the broadcasters, for the other teams, they all hopped around the country in different jobs most of them. So I was pretty rare in that I got that and I'm not sure if I realized that at the time, but because of that I had that network of people that I knew from Oregon State and then I'd work for Oregon as well the Ducks, you know. So I had kind of both sides. I was a platypus a little bit, so I wasn't hated by either side, which, because that's very polarizing we all know in college sports. I had that standing a little bit and then I even a couple of the early Blazer coaches Rick Adelman, who went on to coach at Houston and Sacramento. He knew my dad, so I would always talk to him about my dad. So I really owe my dad a lot for setting the table for me, not just through maturity and for the way I kind of held myself and the model he showed me, but even network wise, so that that I would say, and during all of that, wise, so that that I would say, and during all of that, you know, I grew up and my dad was a wonder. I lost him five years ago and he was not outwardly and anybody who was out there who has a father who was a coach.
Speaker 1:It's not easy, because what you're hearing about all the time is all of the guys that are doing it a little bit better and what makes them stand out, and you're always wondering if you're measuring up. So I've heard you talk a lot about the primal questions. I started to understand why mine was am I good enough? Do I have what it takes? Some of that is coming from a coach, a father as a coach. So it would be very interesting sometime to do a study.
Speaker 1:How many people have that question and also had a father as a coach. So it would be very interesting sometime to do a study how many people have that question? And also had a father as a coach, so I did have some of that. Now, affirming wise was always phenomenal Later not early, but later he was very much that way. I think his way of motivating me was always trying to tell me who was doing it a little bit better than I was, and that's not a bad thing. But it did lead to some personality traits that I have today, some positive and some are difficult things to get over.
Speaker 2:Is there a common connecting theme that you think about when you reflect back on on your life?
Speaker 1:I would just say in a job like I, it's probably an obvious one, but it's networking people and how you treat every single person. Because when you in this role and maybe big fish in little pond you know when you're known. When you have a platform, you know a lot of people come up to you. And when my kids were little we'd be out to dinner and somebody stopped by the table and want to talk or take a picture or just chat for a second and never turned anybody away and at times I know maybe you're supposed to if you're with your family. And where I got some of that from is when I was young and I used to come to Blazer games a few times a year. One time, a guy that I had idolized. I went to get his autograph and I waited like a half an hour because he was on all these postgame shows and he came over and I was there with my pet I was probably in grade school and he said no and fairly or unfairly, my image of him changed forever. I never wanted to be that guy. So I set out in the back of my head, even of every time I had that opportunity, I was never going to be that guy Because I didn't want to ruin somebody's impression of what they thought I was.
Speaker 1:Now, that can. That doesn't just mean that's a celebrity thing or a platform thing that goes for everybody, and even in your community where you're kind of known or you're out for a walk. That's the common theme that I think it's. It's taking and I know that it's biblical to say, take every thought captive. I not only took every thought captive, I wanted to take every conversation captive and every opportunity captive to really realize that you have the opportunity to change someone's impression of you and therefore, if they're like me, even themselves, and I want to make that person feel special. You know what I mean and I don't want them to walk away going well, that guy's not what I thought he was. Because we hear that about our heroes a lot Don't get too close to them because they're not going to be your heroes anymore, because you're going to see things that you have built up in your mind that you thought they were, that they're really not.
Speaker 1:So that's a long way of saying I think that is a common theme. Now maybe that turns into also. The downside of that is you tend to be an overthinker, and I certainly am that and then you turn into being hypercritical of yourself which I certainly am of myself, and not necessarily to the point where you rot in a pit of shame and guilt, but you don't give yourself much grace and in all those opportunities, being so self-aware, I've always said my curse is that I know better. That's not actually scriptural, but it could be because for me that has been a positive and a negative for me. Overly self-critical and sell an overthinker big time because of those situations, hyper aware of my surroundings to the point where I overthink and replay every conversation later. But in a good way it does make sure you don't, hopefully, miss an opportunity.
Speaker 2:You know, are there lessons in preparation for leaders based on how did you, how did you prepare to step into those moments that were so high pressure?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting and one of my really good friends is a pastor who you know as well and I've talked about this with him and we have we've found some commonality with way he prepares for a sermon. So I've said to him before how much sermon prep do you put in? And he talks about the hours and then I say how much stuff did you prep for that you didn't use? He says, oh my gosh, I used 20% of what I prepped for and I said that's what I was like. My first partner was Steve Jones, who ended up on the number one broadcast team with Bob Costas and Bill Walton. That was a great team for a while. Steve wasn't so much that way and he would. He would get after me for using too many stats and figures and numbers and analytics, so I had to kind of battle that at times.
Speaker 1:I wanted to have you know when you're talking about an NBA team that's got 12 active players. I wanted to be as well-versed on the 12th guy on the bench who was very likely to not see any action, fully in the know. But I had to be. I had to know his parents' names, where he went to college, what he shot from the free throw line his junior year in college and I knew all that stuff. So I had this board that I would make, which most broadcasters do, and basically you start fresh. Which is kind of the neat thing about broadcasting too is after each game you pretty much swipe the table off and you start over the next day. So I would start with a clean sheet the next day and you start going and you start writing with notes, storyboard, figures, facts, numbers, and I got better at it. I got more efficient because the computer got better. The stuff was easily, more easily accessible. As I got later in my career, they just got better at it. Even if I could print out a guy's stats, it was better if I wrote it down because I'd remember it better and I knew at times when I would reach for a number in my head. I never wanted to be in this position or reach for a story and I didn't have it, or a number at a crucial time in a game.
Speaker 1:And I was always proud of the times when, within a call, naturally not sounding forced, I could throw a fact out. Like I remember, lamarcus Aldridge hit a game winner from the corner against Dallas at home. This is I mean it sounds weird but your memory does this and it was his first three pointer of the season. He hit in the final second and I was able to say in the call his first three pointer of the season. I would not have known that had I not pounded that into my head and written that down on my game notes and done the prep, done the prep. And so those moments you're proud of, the moments that you're walking away from, I will say this most of the moments I walked away from regretting or driving home going which I did a lot everybody does was when I gave too much information or over-talked or didn't let a moment breathe, and that did happen. And some of that is dependent on your partner.
Speaker 1:My partner, my last 11 years, was Mike Rice, who, mike, was on ESPN on Big Monday for a long time and then he became the radio analyst for the Blazers under Bill Shonley, then transferred over to Brian Wheeler, and then when Steve Jones started doing national games, I would go on the road and they would move Rice with me when Steve would leave. Jones started doing national games, I would go on the road and they would move Rice with me when Steve would leave. Then they went ahead and made Rice the permanent TV analyst when Steve had gotten more and more involved in it, when ABC took over the NBA and they had this Times Square show, and so he was always in New York and then Mike and I got along really well Mike, very emotional former coach, same age as my dad. So we got along well in some of those ways Very emotional though, and would fill a moment with a lot of words, and so a lot of times I would talk to keep him from talking in a moment and then I would go. I just want those moments to breathe. The best call in the history of televised sports is Kirk Gibson's home run in the World Series in 88, when Vince Coley literally made the call and then laid out for like two minutes and didn't say a word. So in those moments I always wanted to be that guy, and my biggest regrets in my career are the moments when I talk too much, when I would have let it breathe and let it sit.
Speaker 1:But knowing that balance at the moment, when you're emotional as well, because I wasn't calling two teams that I wasn't fan of. I worked for this team, so of course you're going to be a homer to some degree and you're going to want success for these guys who you know and bleed with and you travel with and you know their families. So to ask a guy in that role to not be a homer or not at least show some partiality is unrealistic. You're going to. So when a moment happens for a guy that you care about, he hits the shot.
Speaker 1:You're going to show emotion and at times I look back and I probably at times too much emotion, too much homerism, but then the fans liked it, they seemed to. There were some people who didn't and we got criticized. You were kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Some people would get mad if you were too much of a homer. And then one time at home we got beat by Orlando at home. I don't think I have this recall. And then I start talking and I realize I do. We got beat by Orlando at home by a three out top and it was such an amazing shot that I called the shot with some enthusiasm and people said after the game who do you want to win?
Speaker 1:You're acting like you were excited that he hit the shot and I said no. I was excited about basketball and in my first or second year you can find it on YouTube is one of Kobe Bryant's the best endings to his career. Blazers had the game won. Kobe hits a ridiculous three out top around Reuben Patterson falling onto his back. I made that call from a disappointment kind of a standpoint because we were wanting the Blazers to win. Then the Lakers get the ball back and with half a second left the inbound to Kobe, he hits another three for the win at the angle ridiculous shot fading away. I did a proper layout there and I just let the moment breathe and watch the Lakers celebrate on the court.
Speaker 1:Now people were mad. They are saying, well, why did you give him the entire moment? And it's like but that's one that still gets played, I'll still see it pop up on TikTok. I'm proud of that one because I didn't over talk it, you know.
Speaker 1:So there is that fine balance, but the preparation back to the original point was the key and what my motivator was there was never being this on the stage that I was on, never looking like there was something that I didn't not didn't know, but a fact that I didn't know an opportunity that would come up with a chance to add something which is all you're doing as a TV broadcaster. You're not doing radio, you're not painting a picture. They're already seeing it. So you don't want to overstate it and tell them things they're already seeing and state the obvious. You just want to add to it. And with the way that we always tried to kind of, our idea and it was more maybe intentional on my part was to sound like you're watching the game with a couple of friends and maybe not be preached to and not be talked down to, because you're talking to a 10-year-old kid and you're also talking to a 90-year-old lady and you want to be entertaining and add something for them both in the broadcast.
Speaker 2:So that was something I was always mindful of.
Speaker 1:What's the preparation lesson that every leader needs to embrace? For me it was know your people. So even with visiting teams, at times before a game, we would have a lot of opportunity and the teams would be out doing casual shoot arounds this is before any fans are in the arena and I got to know a couple of guys on other teams, but I would just ask them a question and I would always get an insight that would help me. And so, from a leadership standpoint, being respected, you can get respect by being iron fisted. Of course, for me and my kind of the way I would go about things was I wanted to get to know these guys on a personal level and find out what's going on, and therefore, at times, even on the road, I would know if a guy was having marital problems, I would know if a guy had a sick child, and therefore, when carrying out my job, it was easier if I knew that, because not only maybe could I give a little bit of grace, but I could explain for him a little bit what was going on. And so for me that helped. It was just simply taking the time and being intentional about knowing everything about to the extent that I could know everything about each of those guys on the floor, because it helped me tell a better story. And then, when it came to you know, from a leadership standpoint, was are there leadership skills? That I had to have to be in that role, I guess. So I was calling things and talking about what was happening with other people, which is interesting. I tried to do that with our own broadcaster. So at home, you know know, it was a 30, 40 person crew, from a truck that had eight to 10 people in it to a, you know, guys sitting around the baseline holding microphones, guys who were your engineers, who were making sure, you know, if a headset went out, if a camera went out. I tried to know all of those guys and I valued those guys and I wanted them to know that I valued them. And a couple of them have passed away and I've gone to their services and been asked to speak on at least one of them. And the best thing, I walked away from there saying I knew that guy I was able to say I knew him and in a role when maybe not everybody, probably does it that way where there can be ego involved or this guy's way under me in terms of his pay or his responsibility. I never wanted him to feel that way. So for me it's know your people? That's simply. I mean if that's and I don't know if that translates, if that, if that's understandable, but that was my way of doing it and and letting those people know that they're appreciated.
Speaker 1:There's a simple phrase that I always try to use and I need to do this more, even with my wife and I've tried to do with my kids is to simply stop and say tell me more, tell me more about that.
Speaker 1:It's so funny how, if you say that to an employee, to a coworker, to a spouse, to a child, that simple phrase, because oftentimes we're waiting for our turn to talk, or we're waiting for our turn to talk or we're waiting for our turn to walk off or look at our phone and to be fully engaged you realize how rare that is these days and I suppose in the age that we're in with technology, it's more difficult than ever. But I have found, you know, and with a group that I lead on Wednesday nights and a men's group of Bible study, I try to do that there when the guy walks up and wants to talk about a podcast that we did, or wants to talk about a blazer memory. If I can just sit there and shut up and say, tell me more about that man, that's valuable. I see people just open up and I realize how rare that is unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Talk to us about just the pressure of being a play-by-play broadcaster. Every word is scrutinized, every word is being heard. Yes, how do you manage that level of?
Speaker 1:pressure. I'm trying to think of the year 14, I think, when Damian Lillard hit the first really long, stunning shot to end the playoff series against Houston. I don't love our call on that and the reason why I don't love our call on that and the reason why I didn't love our call on that is because we had that game in that series and we knew if we lost it we'd be going back to Houston the next morning and we weren't likely to win there again. We already won games one and two there. We weren't going to go beat them again there. What people forget about? That shot is remembered and it's replayed over and over again the three-pointer catch and shoot with .9 left to win the series. And Mike Tirico's call is used a lot on ESPN and I'm glad it is and ours isn't. Because I didn't love we over. But the previous play Houston had a chance. We had had the lead. Great defensive. Stop loose ball guys, go out of bounds. It ends up in the hands of Chandler Parsons and he lays it in. Stop loose ball guys, go out of bounds. It ends up in the hands of Chandler Parsons and he lays it
Speaker 1:in. So we were so down about how did that happen. Foul should have been called all of this stuff that I wasn't then prepared for the positive. On the other end, we were dwelling on the negative. So, in terms of pressure, that was a high pressure moment, to be sure, but I look back on that one with some regret, because I was and there's a life lesson here. Obviously I was busy, worrying about what had just happened and missed what was probably could have been the biggest call of my career, and I don't want to insert myself to that point because I don't want to have a ton of ego on that. But if you're a broadcaster, those are the moments you're waiting for, and I was stuck in what had happened a minute earlier. In terms of anxiety, I never really felt that. I think, if you're prepared, the only times that I had any of that is when I didn't feel prepared, if I had rushed through one day or we were on the road and it was, you know, the toughest
Speaker 1:stretch. You talk about back-to-backs in the NBA. You play back-to-backs in the NBA. You play back-to-back nights. Well, the four games in five nights is really tough because you play back-to-back one day off back-to-back, and normally that happens on a road trip. So by the fourth game, especially early in my career when we weren't a very good team. You know you're going to get blasted. You know you're going out on a road trip where you don't have a chance to win. It's really easy to get lazy. But anybody can call a good game, the good games, good competitive, close game, simple to call. Call a game in Philadelphia on a Tuesday night when you're down 20 after the first quarter. That's where you're tested. You better have some stories and you better have some numbers and you better try to be
Speaker 1:entertaining. And I got the greatest compliment one time. You know I think about different compliments you get. Somebody had emailed in or it was on social media. I think we went to Philadelphia and got blasted and it was a pretty meaningless game. It was I think it was mid to late season and we had a
Speaker 1:blast. On the broadcast we talked about food and we talked about Philly. We talked about New York on this road trip and we had a blast. On the broadcast we talked about food and we talked about Philly. We talked about New York on this road trip and we talked about my partner's coaching in college at Duquesne and Youngstown State and we talked about we story told. We had to fill the time and then I had a guy online I don't even know who he is. He made the comment and said there's no reason why I should have had that game on after the after halftime because it was a lousy game, he said. But I was entertained that entire game and I went that. That's that was the best
Speaker 1:compliment. Not you called the last second shot well, or you guys matched the moment with your energy. It was that kind of thing. Cause that let me know that we were prepared. We didn't get our heads down like you can do when you're tired for game and five nights getting blasted by a team you shouldn't be blasted by. Those are moments that I remember, think back on, and that was probably one of those times. Which is really funny to think that it would happen in a blowout fashion. But anybody who's ever broadcasted the game before will agree with me in that those games are the most
Speaker 1:difficult. But that's where your preparation counts. It's those times when, maybe for somebody in business, at the end of a quarter, when you're rushing for the finish line, yeah, your energy is going to be great, you're going to be on point, you're going to be fired up. It's that middle time, that flat time. Do you still have it there? And are there moments there during that time when you have things you're proud about and even mundane things a small deal in business or a sale that didn't seem that great but, man, you worked hard. It wasn't a big sale but you're proud of yourself after it because it took effort. It took getting up at a time when you didn't think normally, a time when you'd have to bring your energy to match that moment, because nobody expected much out of that moment, which that's that game I'm talking about. Nobody expected
Speaker 1:it. Tuesday, philly, we're playing in the Eastern time zones. The game started at four here, 4.30. Probably didn't have a big listening audience, but that's a game I'm one of. The one of the games I'm most proud of because we were prepared, because we stuck with it and matched that moment with everything that we could control, which is a lot you can't control. Clearly, when you're broadcasting a game, you're commenting on what other people are doing. That's one of those games when I went okay, that was a, that was a good one, and then I got a really good compliment on the heels of that and I remember it to this day Is there a feedback moment, whether it's from a producer, a player, coach.
Speaker 2:That really shaped you.
Speaker 1:Yes, but ironically I will tell you, the greatest, most valuable feedback came the day after I was fired and I didn't know that so many people had paid attention. And so, just to kind of fast forward in the story, mike Rice and I were. This became this Mike and Mike tandem that we had this. We all of a sudden became joined at the hip, which was good and bad mostly good and our notoriety began to grow a little bit nationally because we're on the West Coast. Nba TV carried our games a lot internationally Toward. The end was when we started to be named one of the best broadcast teams in the NBA. There's a couple of websites that came out late in the season of 16 saying they were ranking the teams. We were always in the top five. One of them had us in the top three. So just as we're feeling really good and we're feeling like man, for the first time we're getting some recognition, not from an ego standpoint, but just in it feels good to get some recognition.
Speaker 1:The season ends, we're called into a meeting and three of the four broadcasters are fired with really no reason. We didn't really understand why. It's just the owner had made a call and said let's just change everybody out, and I know that the guys locally were like are you sure we're going to get some serious blowback? Because we think that our broadcasters are pretty popular and resonate. And in a sports, a sports team, professional sports team players come and go, coaches come and go, gm coaches come and go, gms come and go, presidents come and go. I mean I think I went through five, six coaches and at least that many GMs and presidents. The broadcasters are the common thread which is always there. They're the mouthpiece, they're the connective tissue between the team and the fan. So therefore, you don't see a lot of change. You know it's not. There's not a lot of turnover in those jobs, believe it or not, especially NBA wise. In fact, a lot of guys. I mean, if I look around the league now and I don't follow it like I used to, but I think most of those guys are still there and I would be too.
Speaker 1:So the next day, that's when I got this flood of voicemails and text. A lot of voicemails, because I really wasn't answering my phone. A lot of voicemails, a lot of texts, and I thought to myself why didn't I know this when I still had this job? Now I'm getting these from guys Mike Breen, ian Eagle, these guys who are household names. Breen I knew really well, he's the voice of the NBA.
Speaker 1:I felt so honored that they took the time to reach out to me and to tell me number one how can I help? Let's go, here's another job, hop into this, which I didn't do. And here's this guy Call this number. They all wanted to help and they all wanted to provide. Hey, this has happened to everybody. This is a business that and I just that goes against what I just said.
Speaker 1:As far as teams go, but in broadcasting generally, people move around not NBA play by play, but others.
Speaker 1:So guys would kind of say, and that's what the Blazer coach at the time, terry Stotts, called me and I was close with Terry and he said hey, man, don't take this personally, this happens.
Speaker 1:The general manager at the time, neil O'Shea, who I respected and liked a lot, I had five voicemails from NBA referees who I got along with and liked, always liked those guys, always appreciated them. I didn't know how they got my number, probably in the NBA blue book. So when you say, were there any compliments that meant a lot or that I really took to heart, it wasn't until I was fired, until that really had those moments, which I guess isn't unusual. I had some during it, for sure. I had coaches who would go watch game film and come back and kind of like laugh about a moment because we had kind of a funny broadcast and my partner was certainly funny and shocking at some points and a character to be sure. So, yes, all of those compliments along the way meant a lot, but it's odd that most of the ones that meant the most came at the end.
Speaker 2:Take me back to June 15, 2016. What were you feeling that day that you were fired and let go from the Blazers organization?
Speaker 1:Yeah, with a year left on my contract. Both of us the Mike and Mike team we both had a year left on our contracts. You know, the funny thing is I knew it was going to happen. I don't know if it was the Lord who was preparing me I think now it was and talking to my you know, one of my best friends, who's my pastor. I was with him the night before I was with Steve Blake. I was with Steve Blake, who used to play for the Blazers and Wizards and Lakers. Steve was close to us and we were watching a movie at a friend's house, which we do these guys nights, and I think it was a Tuesday night and we were walking out and, as we often did, there was five or six of us.
Speaker 1:Somebody would say, well, what's? You know, it's dark, it's midnight, what's going on this week with everybody? Anything we can pray about. Anybody need any prayer for anything, which is, you know, it's great. As you're leaving, friends are asking for prayer requests.
Speaker 1:And I said I got a meeting tomorrow. It's a, it's a season wrap up meeting that I've had a million times before. And they said, oh, okay, it's just tomorrow morning. I said, yeah, it's just a season wrap up. And I said but I got a funny feeling. And they said what do you mean? I said I don't know. I got a weird feeling. And they said what are you talking about? You guys were just honored, you guys are flying, you got years on your contract. Why would you be feeling this way? And I said I don't know, but I don't feel right, something's weird.
Speaker 1:And then the next morning my wife was out front watering some flowers and I was leaving and I said I got a feeling when I come home I'm not going to have a job. And she laughed because I'm a little that way anyway, and but I remember saying that and I called her a couple, not even that hour and a half later, and told her that my feeling was correct. The discernment that I had I don't know who it was from. I mean I look back now and think the Lord was maybe trying to prepare me. I mean I look back now and think the Lord was maybe trying to prepare me, but it was odd because I went into that meeting feeling that was going to happen. Therefore, was not that surprised in a weird way and should have been, certainly wasn't angry. I internalize those things. I always think my first thing in my thought that runs through my head isn't that I'm a victim, it's that. What could I have done better?
Speaker 1:But then by the time I go to my car, it wasn't a very long meeting that I went in and met with the president. It was Chris McGowan then, wonderful guy, and I liked all the guys, I wasn't mad at anybody, I was more just heartbroken and like what in the world? By the time I get to my car they had put out a press release. So I get in my car and turn it on and I had it on sports radio station. It's already on the radio. I hadn't had a chance to call my parents or even my wife at that point and it's already out. So people are hearing about it. All of a sudden my phone is starting to ring and ring and ring.
Speaker 1:Drove home kind of in disbelief and just kind of had different friends call and again I had the phone kind of muted. But I had a friend of mine bring me over a gift. I had done some commercials for this barbecue center and he brought me a. It was just, it didn't matter what it was, it was just a gesture. He wrote scripture all over the box and then he wrote at the bottom he said this is God. He said this is the Lord is behind this. He said because when something is like this, that absolutely makes zero sense. There is a bigger play here. There's a bigger story coming here. I don't know what it is and here I sit here eight or nine years later. I'm still not really sure what it is. But he said, when something does not make any sense, logically that's what it's got to be. And that helped me a ton and I kept that. But I still have that box that he wrote all over. But it was very strange.
Speaker 1:The next, that following day Again, I got calls from guys around the around the country who are trying to get me. I'll go take this job. I had an opportunity that day to take another NBA job with a team that had kind of been interested in me for three or four or five years and I really had never. But it would have meant and I've never talked about this but it would have meant taking another guy out before his contract was up. And when they offered me the job I said what's the deal with your current guy, who I like and know? They said he's got a year left in his contract and I said I'm not doing that to somebody. I said call me when he is no longer under contract, which they did the next summer and I still decided. I said no, we didn't want to.
Speaker 1:It wasn't just the move, I didn't want to move, but I didn't want to spend any more time in hotel rooms away from my family, which was really hard for me. That last year in 16, I remember being in Memphis on a day off but you didn't get many on the road and I kind of broke down in tears because I was missing yet another event for the kids, another school play, another, whatever it was, and I just thought, I prayed about it and I said, lord, I don't think I can do this anymore, but I don't know another way. This is what I am. So I knew I couldn't make that choice because of the unknown. I didn't have the courage. I don't think. So it was made for me and that's where it made sense. That's where it started to make sense. I'll never have another. I don't think I'll never have another job that takes me away and now that my kids are older my daughter's in college and my son's 20, but I'll never get that time back and that hurts me.
Speaker 2:You can't apply every principle to every situation, but you wonder if there were times when God says I'm going to close the door for Mike because he's not going to move forward on his own. Exactly what it was. If it is up to him, yes, did you see that? Yes, over that situation.
Speaker 1:Absolutely did. And the more the time goes by, I see that it wasn't right and what it was doing to me internally in terms of the guilt and shame from being away and I'm not saying that if you travel for work, everybody, a lot of people have to do that and then make you a bad person Didn't make me a bad person, but for my personality at that time in my life it was tough. It was really tough. There was excitement about it, getting out on the road and you know, we flew well, we stayed well, we ate well. It was the dream life for a lot of sports fans when you think about it.
Speaker 1:But for me, that time away from home and the longing for being a bigger part of my kid's life at that time, for me that was very, very difficult. And so I think, when I look back at it, for that, like what you just said is exactly right, I think the Lord looked at it and went he's not going to make this decision, but I gotta step in here. That's the only thing that makes sense to me and that's not to say with any ego to say that how dare you fire me? That wasn't the case. Everybody is replaceable. I knew that when it came at the time when we had gotten the notoriety, and all of a sudden, this, that's what.
Speaker 1:And the popularity I think to some degree and there are, there's always going to people that don't like you we were at the height of our popularity in this region and to have it gone then it stunned people and I felt really bad for the president, chris, who had to wear the decision because he wasn't going to go to the owner. He wasn't going to let that happen. He made Chris own it and Chris got destroyed publicly. He had to get off Facebook, he had to get off all social media. Chris is a wonderful guy. He had to wear this decision and people destroyed him for it and it wasn't his fault. So I felt more for him.
Speaker 2:What did you find yourself doing? Either intentionally, or you just kind of leaned in to that. First 24 to 48 hours.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know that I did anything right exactly. It was stunning and it took a while to set in. I'd have to remember it. I'd usually go off by myself which is what men tend to do trying to break down those things, but we do that. I would go out to my little. I had a little tiny workshop on the side of my house. I'd go in there and cry and wonder what the heck why? And try to get it to feel real. It was my identity and with all of us a lot of us and I think getting fired a big thing you wrestle with along with income and along with finances you have to come face to face with what am I now? And for me that was certainly that. And if I had jumped into another job that day or that next week, I don't think I would have been forced to go find what that was. It would have been putting a quick bandaid over it. So I'm glad that I did it the way I did it.
Speaker 1:I also was very careful with what I said and how I reacted, and I did one tweet publicly, I think, that night, where I just I'm proud but I'm heartbroken, that's all. I said, something like that and then a lot of the writers, a lot of the newspapers. They wanted to do a story on it and I didn't initially. And then a couple of days later I think it was two or three days later I had a friend who was a writer, trusted him. He said will you talk to me? And I said, yeah, I'll talk to you. And it was interesting.
Speaker 1:I still still remember I had a 71 Chevy truck and I was getting the engine redone on it and I went. I was at that shop because I was trying to keep my mind busy and I did the interview walking around in the parking lot while the truck was being done. But I wanted them to know I knew. And the reason why I took a day is because I knew this is my opportunity to show what I am and it's not going to be bitter and it's not going to be taking a flamethrower to anybody and it's not going to be taking a flamethrower to anybody and it's not going to be blaming anybody. All I tried to say is I was incredibly blessed to have this opportunity and I am not bitter, I am thankful and I don't know what is next and, yeah, it hurts bad, but I'm not going to blame anybody for this. I'm going to try to accept this and move on.
Speaker 1:And it's hard, though I mean people know this, who've listening, who've been let go or been laid off or those moments are not easy and I don't have a magic pill for that. I can just tell you I tried from my personality to really really take every thought captive at that time and not show bitterness, because everybody can be great when things are great. When things suck, how are you gonna react at that point? That's what you're going to remember in a decade. And if I had gone back now, I think about it and if I, I never would have done this, but if I would have let it get the best of me and fired off and been pissed and I'd be regretting that to this day. But I can look back now and after you and I had breakfast a month ago, I sent you that article. Now I can do that with pride a little bit, because that's that's who I want to be.
Speaker 1:So in terms of that first 24 hours, a lot of it was just trying to let it settle in and let it become real, because it was way too big a part of my identity and who I was Understandably so, I guess, but it was. I found out. I had a reality and a perspective shift. Really fast I would say, okay, that's what you were.
Speaker 1:You got to go tell your kids this happened. They're not going to understand it and they're going to be sad because they liked that life and they liked going down there and they liked getting around to the team and it was an exciting life. And even for them, even the fact that they didn't get to see dad as much as they would have liked, it still was exciting. So the fact that they didn't get to see dad as much as they would have liked, it still was exciting. So, feeling like you let a lot of people down, that sucks and I know that for a lot of people who are especially men who are listening, because traditionally I know it's not this way now, necessarily, but the role of a provider for a man, that is a huge part of your identity. When that goes away, you're going to beat yourself up and you're going to feel like I just let a lot of people down, even if it wasn't your fault. Wrestling with that, I think, is the biggest key.
Speaker 2:How would you describe, like, where your identity is anchored today, compared to where it may have been anchored at the height of your broadcasting?
Speaker 1:career. I was always. I want to say that I had a strong faith throughout my entire Blazer career. It really started to ramp up in about 14, 13. It was there. But when I brought my good friend in to be the Blazers team chaplain who still is, who is my pastor and he does amazing work with those guys these stories never get told. I kind of feel like I look back now and I had a hand in setting that up for him. I put some stuff on the line. I went to some people and really asked if he could get the opportunity to do that.
Speaker 1:That's probably one of my proudest achievements, something that nobody saw. So a game that nobody it wasn't televised To see their lives. That's impacted now and the weddings he has done for these players and the relationships he has done for these players and the relationships that he has with these guys and around the league and these chapel services that people don't see that are attended by both teams at the same time before a game where you see these guys. They bring in their own garbage in personal life which nobody wants to hear about. They just want to see how many points you score. But all these guys are human beings. Man Mike helps those guys with that. I see how many points you score, but all these guys are human beings. Man Mike helps those guys with that. I'm really, really proud of that, and so when I think back at proud moments, that's one of the biggest. It's one of the biggest.
Speaker 1:But I think that, as far as what it makes me today in identity, it's using the ability to network the way I did to help Mike out and it wasn't just me, it was other guys too. But and then it's those communication skills to try and let people know that their identity is not in what they do, it is in the Lord, and Jesus should be your everything, and if he's not, you're going to find that out one way or the other. And maybe it took this to get me to that point, and if so, great, I'm here, for it Doesn't mean that there aren't tough days, it doesn't mean that there aren't times I'm watching a game going. I'd like to be doing that, because that's kind of what I am, it's kind of what I did, it's what I know, it's what I prepared for, and then it was taken away. But maybe it was taken away, and if I help one guy and if I have one guy come up at one of our groups or at church on Sunday and he can say that something I said on a podcast or something I said to a group, it's worth it.
Speaker 1:Even if it's just one guy, then it was worth it to go through all of that stuff and all of that pain and all of that. I don't want to say public embarrassment, but there was some of that, because you'd get the questions well, what really happened? It couldn't have been no reason. And we're like, no, it was no reason. You'd get the questions well, what really happened? It couldn't have been no reason. And we're like, no, it was no reason, there was no more to the story, but all that would be worth it if I can help one guy.
Speaker 2:You're living in great purpose. You are putting other people in positions where they can fulfill their God purpose and there is great purpose in that.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate that and I certainly don't do everything right. I certainly miss opportunities. Even now I get frustrated. I've stumbled around looking for what my next thing is going to be. The Lord has provided somehow over the last eight or nine years.
Speaker 1:You know, it's just not the steady, contracted check anymore. It's messing around trying to see what's going to work here and there and try different things and I have failed bad at a few things. But it's about more than that and I've got to remember that and I preach it well. But there are times when it's frustrating and I still have those moments, weak, weak moments of really bad self-talk and, man, you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing and you don't know this world. I knew that world, I don't know this one. But there's a higher calling and there's a higher purpose and I just have to keep that faith and try to stay aware and try to keep those moments alive when there's just one person you can help or impress something upon, who might be watching you closer than you think he is, and that goes for all of us.
Speaker 2:When you're in the moment, you got to step back and remember there's a bigger play happening and I think we can just get so hyper focused on the micro play that we forget there's such a bigger God play that is happening.
Speaker 1:And that takes maturity because it's not transactional and we want it to be because so much in our world is. And you can take these things to God and say, hey, look what I did Now, okay, now you're doing this for me. And sometimes that doesn't happen and sometimes it's really hard to explain that it may not happen tomorrow and it might not happen in our lifetimes. It might be down the road even further beyond that. So that's a hard thing to with our mindset in Western culture. It is very hard to not look at all of these relationships. Even when you're going to help somebody or you're going to offer something or say something to somebody, you cannot think that's going to be transactional. That goes against the business mind and that goes against, maybe, a mindset of somebody who's in an office and you're going to take this call because there might be something in it for you, and I understand that that's of course that's business. But for me I've had to kick those transactional thoughts out of my head and think that is not what this is about anymore.
Speaker 2:This thing goes down. Your whole life is shifted. You and Shelly are having all kind of conversations you had never had before and you still have to be public facing. So how did you embrace that? What did you do with that? That you, whether you like it or not, you are a public facing personality who can't just hide when maybe that's what you want to do.
Speaker 1:It's very difficult, for I heard Theo Vaughn say this the other day, who's great and funny and damaged in his own right, and that's why I love you. So he's so real. He said he's been told he's hard to pet and I went. That makes sense. Actually, I don't receive well, so what I had to do was, rather than being ashamed and embarrassed which it is, you know clearly I had to receive. So I got invited back to go to a game or two the first couple of years and I didn't do it. I didn't go back, but not because I was angry, I just thought I don't want to be a story at all.
Speaker 1:And then one night they were honoring the past decades of Blazers and they would have a couple players out. So I'm trying to think of the year this would have been, would have been probably 19, maybe maybe 20, maybe 20. They invited my night was going to be me, travis Outlaw, dame Stoudemire and Brandon Roy, and they wanted me to come back as well and Brandon couldn't make it that night. So they had us come back and between the first and second quarter they walked us onto the court with an announcement and showed some pictures and it was like a, you know, a honoring. So I did that and that was really really special. And I got to mid court and then the lights came and this is during the game. It was not halftime, so the lights came back up and Terry Stotts and his staff I mean Nate Tibbetts and Dale Osborne I mean these guys are great guys they all walked out and gave me a hug. And then Damian Lillard, who was not playing that night, he was injured came from around the back of the bench, came out onto the court 20 feet and gave me a huge hug. And you know it was on the big screen and it was people were watching and I thought, man, what a guy because he was, he knew Dame knows what he's doing. That meant a lot to me because it showed love and it showed that he appreciated me and it was doing it publicly, which meant a lot. So that was a neat night.
Speaker 1:But there were a lot of moments before that and because I still do TV commercials and I still am the voice for a couple of companies and a spokesperson those are small things I used to emcee a lot of events and a lot of fundraisers and auctions and that kind of stuff. I still do a little bit of that, not as much as I used to. It's never awkward, but at times, if I'm going to go back into something and I'll tell my wife this is going to be a blazer night and she knows what that means I'm going to get a lot of questions, which is great, not a bad thing. But what I have to look at that as, rather than it being telling stories that I've told 300 times, it's opportunities in front of people that maybe I can help or affect or even make feel good. So therefore I'm taking it. I don't always take them all, but that's the way I have to look at it now.
Speaker 2:Talk to us about relational capital. What is it? Why does it matter? How have you managed to hang on to so many relationships long term?
Speaker 1:It's a good question. I mean, I do take a ton of. I value that so much and I get so much joy out of, even with you, introducing you to somebody who is going to open you up to a whole new network, and then I watch that happen. I don't want any part of it but, man, that gives me so much joy and I've done that a lot where you know a lot of it is just being aware and then kind of in your mind you go gosh, this, I got somebody you got to meet and I'll have one group of, and sometimes there is an exchange or whatever. Sometimes it just opens doors for somebody or or it truly just helps that person. But I love watching that happen. I love being able to be aware enough to say this is somebody you got to meet because I know what's going to happen if you guys meet. I know what's going to happen if you connect. And sometimes they'll say I don't have time. Or sometimes they'll say, okay, I trust you and I'll just say I don't have to be there. You guys go get coffee and watch what happens because I know you both and I know where this is going to go. Take advantage of this and usually it happens and it's happened a lot, and that's truly one of those things that I'm proud of that I get nothing from but satisfaction. There is no reward in that, but it feels really good to me and maybe even that is selfish, I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's the relational capital piece. And if you can have built up that amount of trust among other people to where when you tell somebody I got somebody you got to meet, and they go, okay, because I know you wouldn't be saying that if I didn't trust you and trust your intentions and trust the purity behind those words that I get a ton of, I don't know what that is, I don't know how you I joked about it before Somebody said talking about what I'm doing for a living, I laugh and say, well, I'm doing a podcast that'll never be monetizable. I introduce people all the time, I network people together and there's not monetizable. So those are funny things. So then I have to trust the Lord and say you're gonna provide in other ways. But the things that I'm passionate about, those are freebies and they just are. But for me they may. It makes me feel really good.
Speaker 1:But relational capital is there because of the times where we could go one way. We hopefully have the maturity to have a long vision. We look at the horizon and say in 10 years I don't want to be regretting something I said to somebody which destroyed or ate into my relational capital.
Speaker 1:It's being mindful and aware at those moments to where I protect that relational capital and it doesn't mean you're fake it, just it's an accountability for myself because I want that to be gold and I want somebody to have me say that and I want that to mean something to them and have them say, well, I'm going to trust him because he knows a lot of people, but he knows a lot of good people and if he's telling me to do this, there's a reason why. And if he's putting me together with this, and then I've seen cases where it has benefited guys business-wise, monetarily, and then he'll say, yeah, I'll call a friend and I'll say, hey, I just got off the phone with so-and-so. And I'll think to myself I don't say it, I put those guys together five years ago. They wouldn't know each other if I hadn't said something, if I hadn't introduced them. And that's not a look at me, but that makes me feel really good. There's a lot of satisfaction in that.
Speaker 2:And you've done that for me. I mean, there have been breakfast tables I've sat at and there will be more. Trust me, people that are blessing a lot of people, and the fact that I'm able to have breakfast with somebody and even just ask the question what could God be doing here, you know? Or what door could be opening? How could iron sharpen iron, yes, how could we collaborate on some gifts? But you've done that for me.
Speaker 1:You know that when I see what you had and you came and shared to our group one night our Bible study group I went, this guy, I got to. I can introduce this guy to some guys because what he's got a gift and what he's sharing is really, really valuable and I want to bless some people with his presence.
Speaker 2:I will not forget when I popped into your men's Bible study to be a fly on the wall and you didn't allow me to take that role. No, I think I walked in and you gave a very kind introduction and then there may have been I don't know 40 or 50 guys and you motioned to me share a word with the men and that was a great honor, you know, for me to be able to do that. And again, just another space that you, mike, and Pastor Mike, are just stewarding those spaces so well Trying to trying to be mindful and trying to take every again.
Speaker 1:You know, take advantage of every situation and always try to have a long-term thought over what this could be and not get too wrapped up in our own lives, and I think that's. I was always in a hurry before. I was mindful and did take some time, but didn't take enough time. And I think people find this as they get older. You know, you see the old men sitting on the bench by the bus stop and they got nothing but time and it's easy to be present. Then it's more of a challenge when you're busy, and there are times when I am too busy but I don't want to be. I don't want to miss any of these opportunities.
Speaker 1:It's funny because my partner, who you also have gotten to know, he calls me because it came time for roles. You know, we're sitting in a lot of meetings that are real estate and zoning and I don't know anything about this stuff and I sit there and you know, the less you say in some meetings, the more people think you know. And that really is true, by the way, because I've found that if I just sit there, they actually think I know what I'm talking about, but I don't. So Craig kind of gave me this in a joking way this, I'm the CRO, I'm the chief relationship officer Tell us real quick.
Speaker 2:I mean for people who don't know what is the Dunn project.
Speaker 1:Well, portland Dunn project. Well, Portland Dunn. Yeah, craig Cheek used to run Nike North America and he approached me. We met via a mutual friend, a Jim, who introduced us. It was at a movie night, they were doing a movie fundraiser and I ran into Craig and then and he had known who I was and I had heard of him, but then he said what he was doing and said do you want to do this with me and try to bring a major this was eight years ago try to bring a major league baseball team? And I said, absolutely, how can I help? He said you can help, because I need, early on, I need connectivity, I need somebody who knows everybody in the media, I need your name, I need your reputation, which which was honoring for him to say that. And I'm going up to see Russell Wilson in Seattle. I want you to come with me and help me and we get in a room together to raise seed capital and just tell stories. And so we were a pretty good one to punch with that. So that's where we're at and it's still going strong.
Speaker 1:It's a long process. Covid was a huge speed bump or kind of shut everything down, but we're no, it's, it's enjoyable and that's where relational capital comes in is in projects like that. And I have no problem and I've enjoyed and been honored by the idea of using my network to build the reputation and the viability of this. And then we've had to spend a lot of time at the Capitol, which we've kind of done with now, getting a bond passed through the House and Senate, and I've had a lot of elected officials who I had opportunities to get around and now continue to talk with them on. You know, I don't want anything from them, which is unusual. You know, it's more just relationship wise and it takes a few conversations for somebody to kind of go oh you don't really want anything, you just want to be my friend, and I'm like, yeah, that's right, and there are a few like that. So that's kind of where that is at right now and that's kind of how that started and we'll see what happens with it.
Speaker 1:There's a whole bunch of things in my life right now that I'm waiting on. That I don't have a ton of control over. But you do what you can and you maybe will have a great outcome. But it is funny if I'd have looked you talked about the 24 hours after I was fired out of something that I thought I was always going to do and got to in my mind what was the pinnacle of that career and didn't get dropped up there by a helicopter. Like some people do. I do feel like I had to go up the mountain. If you'd have gone back to those first 24 hours now and said it would be all this time later, what would you be doing? I wouldn't have known that day, and that's a weird place for me to be in Uncomfortable to say I don't know what's next?
Speaker 2:What do you wish somebody could have told you earlier about being so hard on yourself for so many years.
Speaker 1:You know, I think it's the grace that people like that, like me, tend to give others. How do we in some way, shape or form, find a way to give that grace to ourselves? I don't give myself any grace and I'm trying to trying to get better about it. Some days I think I'm getting better about it. But as far as the bad self-talk which leads to the shame and guilt crazy cycle which a lot of and I brought this up to that Bible study that you talked about, which has 40 or 50 guys or 40 guys in it I don't want to exaggerate, I think it's around 30 or 40. Every time I bring up something about self-talk or toxic self-talk, I get a lot of nodding heads. So I go okay, there's a lot of guys in here doing that, so that's a big issue.
Speaker 1:We have a lot of power to rebuke thoughts as soon as they creep in, and that's good. To go back to James three, talking about the power of the tongue, and I read James three and what it basically is talking about is being so careful that the spark that can set off a wildfire to other people. I internalize that I go, you're doing that to yourself. So it's talking more about the power you have to shape lives in, both positively and negatively to others. I point it to me. I have that power to do that to myself and we also have the power to rebuke.
Speaker 1:And a lot of times if I start hearing those thoughts or if I start hearing these you're worthless, you failed, you got fired, you're not where you're supposed to be, and those thoughts start in all the time. I try to. Sometimes if I'm by myself or I'm driving, I will say to myself, in the name of Jesus, I rebuke those thoughts and I've heard people say that, and probably when I was a new Christian 25 years ago or whatever. You kind of roll your eyes and go what is that gonna do? Try it and as you mature in your faith you'll start to understand you have more power than you think you do. We are co-heirs with Jesus and that's what it says. So if that is the case and I believe it is the case we have that power and we just don't know how to wield it, but you have it. So rebuke those thoughts, kick them out of your head.
Speaker 2:I don't, I am not always successful at that, but at least I know the recipe now, the more you journey forward, the more you catch the lies earlier, yes, and you just don't allow them to take root in the way. You may just allow that to fester and sit. You're quicker to catch and simply say and we've talked about this idea. If Jesus wouldn't say that about me, stop saying it about yourself.
Speaker 1:I quote you all the time because you say that I've stolen so much stuff from you and it should be honoring. But I brought it up on podcasts, I brought it up in our group and that statement, what you just said, that sticks with me. If he wouldn't say it about you, what gives you the right to say that about you?
Speaker 2:Make sure the words you're saying about yourself are life-giving, that they are true. The words you're saying about yourself are life-giving, that they are true, and if you're in a space where you're figuring stuff out day by day, that's okay.
Speaker 1:And I've been feeling like that for a long time. When I look back and go okay, it's been like eight years and I realized my timeline is not his, my thoughts are not his, my ways are not his. So be still and know that I am the Lord. If I open up the roadmap and I'm not seeing exactly what I think I should be seeing, that's okay. That's okay, even if it's blank. I mean I just gotta be comfortable with that. And I'm getting there, I'm making strides.
Speaker 2:What do you think, mike, about your legacy? What do you hope people will say about the way you carry success? That you carried loss and that you've carried influence. That's good.
Speaker 1:You know as hard as I am on myself. I do as I say. I look back on some moments where it would have been easy to you know, take a bat and swing it around or say things and use words to express insecurity or dissatisfaction or this is wrong or unfair. I'm proud of how I handled that Legacy professional, prepared, classy, even, and caring, caring about people around him. I had a couple of guys from the crews on the road because you get the same crews, the same like broadcast crews, guys who do all your lights and cameras and everything. A couple of those guys reached out after and said you were one of the only guys that always really knew what was going on in my life. You knew my wife's name, you knew what was going on with my kids and I'm proud of that and I didn't even really realize all of that at the time. But afterwards that's legacy, that's what I want to be known as. I don't care about the other stuff so much and therefore we can control those moments and I tried to say before, we don't always have all the time in the world to say tell me more, but when you do have the time, do it. Forget all the other stuff. If you can be just known as that a caring individual and somebody who is trustworthy and you could even say classy or professional. Relating to my last job, that's what I wanna be.
Speaker 1:Then you talk about legacy. You know my daughter. I just took her to college, you know, a month ago, not even that and it was a huge emotional time. And then now, in the way you have to communicate with your college daughters, I have had to learn Snapchat, which I'm not a huge Snapchat guy, but I've had to learn to be fast. Good luck on that. Oh my gosh, I have no idea what I'm doing, but you worry about them. You push them out of the boat and make them swim, which goes against every instinct. We have to be a protector.
Speaker 1:But then in the last week, you know she has found a group and a church. She went with Campus Crusade up to the big cross on Table Rock above Boise. She went to a worship night with the football team the other night at Boise State and then she was at a church Sunday and I didn't tell her to do any of this stuff and I'm like man, I'm proud and I, that's just. And then my son is the same way so caring, so loving and takes time to help people. And I'll have somebody walk up at church and say do you know what your son said to me, or do you know what he did for us? Or those are the times that I'm like that. That's legacy. So even at times when I'm hypercritical and feel like I'm failing, there are those moments like that for celebration cause for celebration From the voice of experience.
Speaker 2:what would you want to speak into? Somebody who has lost something that really mattered to them?
Speaker 1:Well, first of all I'd say I don't have it all figured out. I'm a work in progress with that. It is very difficult but it will give you quick perspective on where your identity was, is and should be and it's okay. It's okay if it's in. I understand I was there. It was way too much of my identity, which I think is kind of why this happened. But as far as getting over that man, for me it was getting in the word more. For me it was looking around more, it was taking more time to be present for people. Therefore, the more people you know, the more situations you know, know more about, the easier it is to gain the perspective on where you should be versus where you want to be or are. But that is a tough thing. That loss is where you want to be or are, but that is a tough thing. That loss, that loss of identity, that job loss.
Speaker 1:And I would say that for most people, yes, the common thought is, if you lose a job or a role, everybody goes. Well, the first thought is paycheck or how am I going to provide for the family? And I mentioned this earlier. I think the bigger role, especially for a lot of the men I know have been through this. Who am I? What am I now? I mean, I thought I was this guy and you're left carved out hollow. So if you're in a role where you still have that, then let it be a wake up call a little bit to do some wellness checks on yourself.
Speaker 1:Start to try to gain that perspective, whatever that looks like for you, and if it's already happened to you, like I said, for me, I turned to the word and I turned to friends and I had fortunately had wonderful men and people in my life who could press into me and help me, and I didn't run and hide and I didn't. I tried to be authentic. I didn't try to isolate, because isolation in those times is the worst thing you can do. I guess a lot of guys do because that's the shame and guilt. Isolation is a killer, and that's the main reason we started, you know, bible studies, podcasts. It's because we see this pattern of men especially men, but women too of isolation, especially in times where you're losing identity, losing a role, and maybe that's why I was given a master's degree in it in 2016 that I didn't have before and would never be able to speak with any authority on.
Speaker 1:Now I can, because it's been tough. So allow yourself those tough days. You're not going to get it all right. But don't isolate and get out and network and for me it worked. Get in the word and build that relationship because nothing will give you perspective like that will. There is somebody out there who loves you and you need to start getting into that and get out of this. Crack those voices and those negative thoughts and the way you do that again, realize the power you have and rebuke those thoughts.
Speaker 1:But I understand. I understand the dark moments and the times when you feel like you have failed yourself or others, especially if something has happened to you where you have lost a relationship or a job, as you have just said. It's difficult, it is very difficult for me. Again, it helped me to realize there was a God who died for me. Then I'm like, okay, that recenters me and I'm okay then. So without that I don't know where I would be. But I understand that a lot of people have been there. You are not alone. That's, I think, the biggest thing. You're not alone.
Speaker 2:You're not powerless Correct, you're powerful. Correct the words you speak about. Your own life matter and part of you moving forward a huge part is not sitting in isolation, but linking arms with at least one person who you can draw strength from and journey forward together. If you've lost something you deeply cared about a relationship, a dream, a job or even a season of life hear me on this your story is not over. Losing something doesn't mean you've lost yourself, and it definitely doesn't mean God has lost you. You are not too late for a restart. You are not too broken for a new beginning. Your identity has never been in what you had or what you lost. It has always been anchored in Jesus and that anchor cannot be shaken. You're going to be okay. You will rise again. You will figure this out step by step, with God giving you the strength for each new day. What you thought buried you was actually planting you for purpose. What you thought was breaking you was actually building you. Pressure is forming resilience. Loss is awakening compassion. Pain is preparing you for greater authority and deeper impact. Preparing you for greater authority and deeper impact. God wastes nothing, not even your tears, not even the tears from the garden shed. He is already writing redemption into your story. Right now, even if you feel like you're standing in ashes, god is creating what's next. He is moving behind the scenes, orchestrating a bigger plan, a better plan than anything you could ever imagine, as Isaiah 43, 19 declares see, I am doing a new thing, now it springs up. Do you not perceive it? Doing a new thing, now it springs up, do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams, in the wasteland. God is not finished with you yet. What looks like the end is only a chapter. The author of your story is still writing. The next pages will hold joy you didn't see coming, strength you didn't know you had, and a future more beautiful than what you lost. This is not the end. This is the setup for your comeback.
Speaker 2:I hope this episode impacted and inspired you. Send me a DM and let me know. I read every message that comes in. Make sure you screenshot this episode, share it with someone and post it to your social media accounts. Don't forget to tag me so I can give you a repost. I know there is someone who you know who needs to hear this episode. Thank you for sharing, subscribing and rating the podcast. Seriously, that means the world to me. Look for new episodes to release every month. You won't want to miss those. Thank you for taking the time to invest in yourself. You are worth it. Remember, the best time to rise and lead is now. Thank you.