TD&T114 Come and share your research at PATT40 in Liverpool

Dr Matt McLain is back and this time talking about PATT40, one of the best spaces to share your D&T practice. Listen to Matt and me reminisce about previous PATT conferences and explain how you can get involved in 2023.

Episode transcript

Mentioned in this episode

PATT40 website
Preparing to share your research

Ciaran Ellis posted a thought-provoking question on LinkedIn recently: Do design decisions involve value judgements?

What do you think? Join the conversation over on LinkedIn and let us know what you think. 

Transcript

Alison Hardy: 0:57

So it's a familiar voice back on the podcast again this week. How many times is it now? Mat three for?

Matt McLain: 1:05

At least three? Yeah, fantastic.

Alison Hardy: 1:08

Well, of course, of course it is, you know, because it's not as if we haven't talked in between much since the last episode.

Matt McLain: 1:14

Listeners, and we were saying the other day that we had to organise this later in the day, or else we'd end up talking and talking and talking afterwards, which we have our eyes on the best.

Alison Hardy: 1:25

I was gonna say, I did, we were gonna start at half, three, we then started a cool passport, because I had a shopping emergency now. And then, yeah, we've talked, we've already talked for 20 minutes, but we could have easily talked for a lot longer. But we have got commitments. You know, we have we have family and life to kind of pick up and talk to, and it is, and it isn't when it's Christmas. So we should we should be at least spending some time with family. So we're just recording this just before the before Christmas. And because we had a meeting this week, and I said to Matt, we need to get you on the podcast to come and talk about pap 40. And if you're listening and thinking, what is pap 40. I'm going to hand over to Matt McLean to talk about what it is where it is and what's happening with it. Over to you.

Matt McLain: 2:09

Excellent. Okay, so cat, as we know it in the in the pet community. It stands for people's attitudes towards technology. And it's an international conference. It's part 40. Next year, it's the 40th conference has been going for probably over 40 years now. It didn't happen the year before last because of COVID. Not the year before the year before last because of COVID. So yes, been going on for over 40 years. It started in in Holland, with Professor marketer for ECE and sits grown. It's evolved. It goes from university to university each year. And unless and I've been privileged to be part of that for a number of years, and we've both been to a number of events, national conferences around the world.

Alison Hardy: 2:53

Yeah, I was just thinking actually earlier, which was the first one you went to.

Matt McLain: 2:58

I went to the one in Stockholm and 2012 first,

Alison Hardy: 3:02

and I remember listening to you, actually, I remember the room we were in, actually. Yeah, because we had a we had breakout rooms. i My first one was the previous year. At in London.

Matt McLain: 3:15

Yes, yes. I haven't managed to get to that one. Yeah, that was 2003. News, teacher education. are at that point, uncertain or new to to research. Yeah, we'll

Alison Hardy: 3:27

meet Sarah presented. And the year before Stephanie Atkinson professors. Definitely Atkinson, but sembalun. And Andrew, Andrew Mitchell, had been at Nottingham Trent visiting us doing some examining work. And we were talking about how'd we get into research and they were both like, you need to get into the PAP conferences, because the PAP conferences are really friendly. And we actually said what Pat stands for

Matt McLain: 3:51

yet. Yeah, pupils asked us towards.

Alison Hardy: 3:54

Right. And that was to do with a survey, wasn't it that Mark agrees? Yeah. And colleagues were developing. But yeah, so me and Sarah, put in an abstract for the for the conference. You know, because definitely an MD encouraged us to, you know, it's a friendly conference, because some research conferences are really scary. And then we went along, and we presented and I have to say, now, I'm a bit older and wiser. What we presented was not appropriate, really, for the conference. But it was the fact that, you know, the editor who was Kay stables, you know, I think I think we just felt kind of welcomed in and we have lovely people, like some of the key people in France, everybody came and sat and listened to us. And it was just so lovely. And nobody said you shouldn't be presenting that here or anything like that. And I mean, we were asked questions, and it was just lovely. Yes, yeah.

Matt McLain: 4:44

Yeah. And I know, we've talked about my paper I a psychopath and Stockholm. And that was really sort of putting like a bundle of us just shooting out lots of ideas all over the place. But yeah, it is that sort of wonderful community where you can sort of have a go without getting shot down. And yeah, and grow into research, rather than have to happen to get to a high level and then source step step in the same level as others.

Alison Hardy: 5:14

Yeah, well, I did get shot down in Stockholm. Oh, yeah. So I had somebody questioning what we were doing. I don't really remember it. Maybe I just kind of hit what happened. And somebody else related the stories because I couldn't remember all of this. But apparently, somebody stood up and sort of said something kind of quite attacking about my research. And I kind of didn't know quite what to say. And somebody else stepped in and deflected it, and developed it and asked me another question. Yeah, yeah, that's who that person was. But somebody else who told me this story said that they said some quietly. That was really nicely done. That's what it's all about.

Matt McLain: 6:06

Yes, exactly. And that sort of that sort of being challenged is really unusual in the PAP community. Because even when someone's got something critical to say, they almost always put us in a very supportive way. And almost to the extent where I did have a conversation for years, or a few paths ago, with a colleague from South Africa, and you could tell he was saying, Oh, we thought I should be going in a bit of a different direction, but he was doing it very gently. Come on, give it to me a bit more directly what you said.

Alison Hardy: 6:38

I did. I did have somebody in Marseille sounds really glamorous, isn't it that we've been to Stockholm and Marseille. And I did have somebody in Marseille, because I asked loads of questions in Marseille. Did you get to the Marseille one? Yes.

Matt McLain: 6:51

Oh, yeah. Marsa? Yeah, I thought was fantastic venue. The right over looking over the Hopper was second to none. The time was just amazing.

Alison Hardy: 6:59

Just amazing. That one. And I think that was one of the only ones that my husband's come with me, we kind of made it into a bit of a bit of a trip. A bit of a holiday. But yeah, I because I ended up I ended up doing more presentations, because I don't remember two colleagues Maria Rutland, and David bollocks couldn't make it. And I stupid in an email said, Is there anything I can do? And I found myself presenting their papers. Yeah. I kind of kept popping up in all these different places, presenting presenting research about robotics and about, you know, food education. And, and, but I was also, I was actually on fire that week. So I was asking loads of questions throughout the week and a colleague from America, who I've since been to stay with when I went to the Philadelphia Pat. He when I did my presentation about my research, he asked me a really provocative question. And he said to me a couple years later that he felt guilty about it, but he did it, because apparently I'd done it to him earlier in the week was like payback. But actually, that question changed kind of quite a significant part of my PhD research. So yeah, yeah, it's friendly. And you get that, but when you've got a good relationship with me, and this guy, we've met in New Zealand, and we've met in Marseille, and then we've said Subsequently, I don't want to stay within Baltimore, I went to the Philadelphia conference. So actually, the friendship really grew over that time, and he's been on the podcast. But yeah, these things are you develop you develop friendships, relationships, contacts, you get to meet some fab people. And and by the by you get to see

Matt McLain: 8:40

ya, yes. Yeah, it is. It's not like a like any other sort of conference that you might go to as a teacher where you've got big speakers from outside coming in. It's everyone's there in the same boat. Everyone's almost everyone's presenting. Relatively few and few people are there just to listen. Yeah, almost everyone was there to participate, and to share the research from teachers doing Masters or doctorates to experience teacher educators and researchers. fasteners

Alison Hardy: 9:12

is a complete level playing field, isn't it? There's no keynote. Everybody has the same amount of time. Yeah. And yeah, it's, it's lovely. It's lovely. So content about that 40 Then and what your role is,

Matt McLain: 9:26

perhaps going to be the best platform to be the best.

Alison Hardy: 9:31

As you said, it's a really nice conference. Anyway.

Matt McLain: 9:34

I'm so excited to bring it to Liverpool. And yeah, I mean, currently to share Liverpool because I think it's a fantastic city. Not that I haven't loved going to more exotic places. But yeah, I so cat, Liverpool is going to be in some ways very similar to other paths, people are going to be sending in their abstracts for consideration for the conference, at the end of January 27. January, I think, is the deadline for papers. And that's 300 word abstracts. On top of that, we're not the call light, which doesn't usually happen, perhaps for academic posters, which tend to be sort of five tight, though isn't so a 500 to 1000 words. But also, again, we're putting out a call for over a third thing, which is some workshops, and we're going to be particularly focusing on aspects of equality, diversity and inclusion in design and technology. Because there has been some work done around around EDI is some areas of TNT, but there's other areas that just haven't been touched on. So I'm really interested to see what what what is there that yes, based on evidence based on on experience, but but doing things in a different way against think a better bite about equality, diversity and inclusion, A, B and D and say, Yeah,

Alison Hardy: 11:04

I that's that's a really exciting sort of new thing and the posters as well. To be doing Yeah, you can kind of you kind of not using your grand title that you are, you know, the what's, what's the conference title that you've got conference chair, you're the conference chair, sounds very national director, I am communicating. Which I just sorry, I shouldn't laugh. I kind of think it's hilarious. Basically, I'm doing the social media and the newsletter. Cuz, yeah, I've kind of got to do something. I've got to interfere and kind of, you know, have my Pennyworth somewhere. And then our good friend Sarah Davis is doing is the editor in chief for the for the proceedings, which is the book with all the conference things in. So yeah, so I suppose if people are listening, and they want to get involved, I suppose what they can do is they can write an abstract. Well, what's an abstract, then? I'm doing a workshop on Monday, the ninth in the evening, I'm doing a lot on Monday, the ninth actually. But Monday night in the evening, I'm doing a short workshop online for people who have done some research, or have done some thinking about design and technology, and they want to share it, but they don't know what this means to write an abstract. And can I just checkmark that people do an abstract for the papers? As well as for the posters?

Matt McLain: 12:27

Yes, yes. And it's basically the same thing. 300 words. And there's a little bit of information and guidance on the conference website. But so to get a bit of confidence, if you're unfamiliar with, with the idea of writing an abstract, it's a lot more straightforward than it seems. But yeah, be really useful session or some to, to explore what that means and give you a bit more confidence. But also be confident that we're looking for, for, for reasons to accept, rather than really to be, I was talking to one of my MD, students are excited. So you're either going to be having to put something which is completely irrelevant to the conference, they are extremely badly written, for us not to be giving it a chance. And we will give you feedback. So if it's, if it's could be better, we will give you feedback to improve it, and will help to guide you. But it's a very inclusive and an encouraging and nurturing conference. So so if you're a teacher out there, if you've not presented much event or any research, then there's a really, really good place for you to start.

Alison Hardy: 13:36

Absolutely. Absolutely. Pat Thompson is a professor at the University of Nottingham. I think she describes abstracts as a tiny story. Yes, or a tiny tail. So basically, you write your whole research in 300 words, yeah. What you did why you did it? What you found out what this means? That's it.

Matt McLain: 13:59

Yeah. And essentially what it's for is, so people can look at it without having to read your whole paper, and get a flavour of what what it's all about and work out whether it's worth their while reading.

Alison Hardy: 14:09

Yeah, so having them well written actually then pulls people into kind of, to kind of come and listen, so. So that's the first deadline is January 27, to get an abstract in. And I think, yeah, what people have to think about is I've got I've got an idea, just if you get something in you get feedback, if you don't get anything, you don't get any feedback. And the worst case scenario is you see it as a tutorial. You get free, you get free feedback. And Sarah is overseeing that process is.

Matt McLain: 14:40

Yeah, so it'd be double blind. Which, for those you're not familiar with that. reviewed by two people who won't know who you are. So it's your name will be honest. So it's anonymous anonymously, reviews, and the two reviewers will review in isolation.

Alison Hardy: 14:57

Yeah. And also that means that, that, you know, people don't look at your work and kind of go, Well, I know what Alison Hardy writes about. I know interested, you know, just reject, you know, so you don't have that kind of personal sway. So people don't get feedback, get feedback. And then if they want, they write a 3000 word paper, which is a development. I mean, that could be writing right now. I mean, they don't have to do this, in this order. Do they submit that and that again, gets reviewed? You're also so if they're doing a poster, they do the abstracts, and then they do the poster and they have to submit the poster as well.

Matt McLain: 15:32

So so the poster I will be submitted. Yeah. We're looking at being able to get it printed for people travelling at a distance as well. So particularly people travelling from from abroad to come to Liverpool. So we'll put in a small charge for it, but it will mean you won't have to buy your poster which I think we're going to stipulate it will be like an Avon poster.

Alison Hardy: 15:56

Oh, yeah, yeah. So I think what we haven't said is the actual dates.

Matt McLain: 16:01

Yes. Okay. So yeah, the dates that would be really useful for people to know. So we have either dates are going to be Tuesday, the 31st of October to Friday, the third of November, which those 2023 2023 Yes, yeah. So for those of you are quick off the mark, you'll say, well, that's in our half term might not be everyone's half term. But we've tried to deliberately put it in the half term, because we know that there are a number of teachers in England and elsewhere in the UK, who I wouldn't be able to attend, if it was during term time wouldn't be able to get released from school. So once I might put off some teachers, we know it's going to be attractive to too many sectors. And it's a great opportunity. So if you come for a bit of an extended time, Liverpool is a fantastic city to visit. So there's lots of lots of saying we're going to have social activities. At the moment. Fingers crossed. I've been talking to marketing Liverpool who support with conferences in Liverpool. I'm trying to get costings, to do the Mersey ferry or abandon the Mersey ferry, I, if you remember the, the song ferry across the Mersey?

Alison Hardy: 17:15

Yeah. Sure, in our age, actually,

Matt McLain: 17:18

younger ones, do a Google search for that.

Alison Hardy: 17:23

Oh, my God, but I'm not they're not that old? No,

Matt McLain: 17:25

no, we're not. It's beyond beyond the time. Tell parents? Yeah. So yeah, so it's gonna be in the autumn. So thinking about about timelines, the call for papers out there, the deadline, for the papers, it's the end of January, I will get notifications if you submit in March. So but rather than mid March, we'll then we're going to publish the abstracts in advance. So people will come into the conference can get a bit of a heads up what to expect. And they will be draft apps abstracts, because quite often you tweak and you improve your abstract. But then arrive at a time, you'd be submitting your your full draft of your paper. And there'll be a bit more feedback with that. I'm hoping to get the early bird booking rates fees up in June. So there's plenty of time there will be an early bird rate, and they'll be irregular rates. The regular rates will come in around about September time. Right? So grab the book, I before I before September, you're likely to get a lower rate. And there will be date ranges as well

Alison Hardy: 18:39

as getting third teachers who might not want to, to use pejorative language give up the whole of their half term, they can just come

Matt McLain: 18:48

Yeah, well, I've direct some of our student rates as well. Super master students or or doctoral students. There'll be rates for our student teacher. Yes, sir. Student Oh, yeah, of course student teacher seeing others as well. So I'm working in the moment with our finance team to go through the costings and the budgeting and, and hopefully early next year, I will be able to publish the phase conference phase.

Alison Hardy: 19:18

Now. Yeah, I think I think it's been really good. I think it's gonna be really good. And that's not just because I'm going to be communicating and telling everything I've got to say it's good, but no, I think I think it'll be really good I know that you've really got the drive behind it Matt and it's going to be a fab content conference led by the pack conference. I love lemme so for people who are listening who kind of think well is does this really work for teachers? So last year, it was in Newfoundland and Matt, you went on Newfoundland, and me for people who follow me on instagram although that I was doing a new kitchen so new kitchens and international travel don't work cost wise. And I stayed at home but I managed to get some funding for five teachers in the UK to attend and we came together in Nottingham and attended virtually last last time because they were given that option because we were still sort of coming out the end of the pandemic, won't we? But but those teachers you might want to you might want to contact them we were all on social media. So Drew Wicken came along he didn't present when he came along. Richard Brown, Claire Vickery, Daniela Schillaci, Jojo Chicky and Brendan Anglim also presented and most of them around on social media somewhere. So, if you want to find out what it was like, and whether we're just hyping it up because we're gonna get more people through the door, and, you know, have a chat to them about about what it was like?

Matt McLain: 20:44

Yeah, no, it was. It was great to be to be working with Daniella in particular I was working with on the paper that I was involved with. Experience.

Alison Hardy: 20:55

Yeah, yeah. And I to kind of remember that she is Daniella Schillaci, Roland, you're gonna get it right. But yeah, and that's the other way of doing it is, you know, the mat you read on the paper, didn't you that, that Daniela co authored along with Kay, Tony Ryan and myself. So we all did little bits. And it might be that you you want to team up with somebody? Yeah. Well, you might want to find somebody who's done some writing before, because you might not feel so confident you might be able to, to help help you out. But yeah, it's gonna be a good conference. And even if you can't come along, the proceedings are published after the conference. So you can get hold of all that research and and see what we've been talking about that during that week.

Matt McLain: 21:36

Yeah. And if you're interested in writing something, don't be afraid of reaching out to people like us. I mean, the worst we can say is no, we just don't have the time support. Yeah. But you never know. I there's been a few people in the last year, I've reached out to me. And we're working together at the moment to to put it all together abstracts. And the other are people out there who will be happy to support and as we said, the worst that people can say, is sorry, but no, I can't. And at least it shows people that you're interested. Yeah, developing a profile in research,

Alison Hardy: 22:12

and and you've got something you want to share and say, Yeah, and if we can't, we'll invariably know somebody who can? Yes, yeah, we can have 10 people

Matt McLain: 22:23

with a similar interest to do that, if we can do it. Because then we're showing impact. And we are measured on the university's academics on the impact that our research has, and we have on research. So it's not, it's not purely altruistic. Now, so you don't need to feel that you're gonna be causing great inconvenience. Anyone or offending anyone? If anything, they're gonna be pleasantly surprised or very open to having a conversation with you.

Alison Hardy: 22:59

Yeah, because people are generous to live with. Yeah, yeah, we do get payback. Sounds awful. But, but that does happen. But yeah, and, and we do need more people writing and design and technology, you know, we do need in schools, sharing what they're doing in their curriculum. You know, what they're doing with their pedagogy, what they're doing with their assessment, how how they're trying different things out and what they're testing, and that was Joe Joe's work last year, Jojo was an action research project that she talked about, about how she tried to develop the curriculum and the impact that had. So if you're doing things like that, then then you can be working on that.

Matt McLain: 23:36

Yeah, and we were talking before curriculum is one of those areas that there's there's very little research and TNT on curriculum, curriculum models. There's also very little research on special educational needs in design and technology. There's all sorts of gaps, which are really important things. But they haven't been researched on published minutes, people might have researched them done them as part of masters, or doctoral studies. But they're not really out there in the public domain. Yeah,

Alison Hardy: 24:08

that's, that's the challenge. And we have to kind of build up that knowledge base around the subject. Yep. Say, yeah, right. Well, Matt, thank you very much. Yeah, we'll put some links in the show notes to the pack 40 website, we'll put the dates in, we might even put some links to where you can find the previous pap proceedings, if you're just interested in seeing what other research has happened.

Matt McLain: 24:28

And if you're out there with an organisation who's got a bit of money to something teachers and schools or lessons or lessons, or knowledge exchange project last year, it was fantastic. And it was fantastic that people were willing to fund that. So if you are in there, and you're part of an organisation, which gives funding for research, we're very open to contributions that would support teachers to come from schools. Yeah, that's important that the PAP conference just so just to be a bit bit selfish there and just put a call out and say that, is that something that we're wanting to do to try and help engage more teachers with, with deity research?

Alison Hardy: 25:09

That's it. That's a good shout out. We do need. Yeah, I was fortunate to get some money. I was sponsored last year by H foundation and HMA technologies, and through Martin Hale, provide us with some money to pay for conference fees, and pay for some supply costs for that for the five teachers. And then I was able to get some money from my university to pay for accommodation and travel. And that that made a big difference. But I don't feel like I can go back to the table stations again. And I can't guarantee that I'm gonna get anything from the university this year. But you know, what, kind of keep knocking on doors? See, we get some scholarships.

Matt McLain: 25:47

Yeah, that's all part of the plan. So again, if you're a teacher listening to that, do keep an eye on the website. So we will. We'll put information out there if we want. As to secure funding for scholarships to attend. We do try and keep the costs as low as possible. But yeah, we do need to cover costs.

Alison Hardy: 26:06

Yeah. Right. Thanks very much, Matt. It's been great. I'm sure we'll be back again talking about something else. Yeah, so yeah, okay.