The Winding Road
The Winding Road
Heather Robinette: Pivoting into RevOps
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In early 2021, Heather took a Director of Marketing role at a startup only to find herself laid off about 60 days later because the company wasn’t ready for marketing.
This was the best thing that had ever happened to her because it forced her to reflect on what she enjoyed doing and where she wanted to take her career.
She had always been interested in the technology and process side of marketing which made her curious about Marketing Operations (MOps). As she learned more and more and became immersed in that world, it became more clear that ops was the place for her.
With that in mind, she started networking and making connections in that world and, shortly after, landed a role as a RevOps Manager at a London-based software development company.
In this episode, we talk about the journey of her pivot from Director of Marketing and being responsible for the building and execution of campaigns to Marketing and Revenue Operations where she gets to build the program from the ground up.
If you’re considering a move into ops, this episode is for you!
Helpful links:
- Follow Heather on LinkedIn
- Follow Travis on LinkedIn and Twitter
- Winding Road Careers
Links to Things We Talked About:
Follow Winding Road Careers:
Ep#45 - Pivoting into RevOps with Heather Robinette
[00:00:00] Travis: Hey, it's Travis and welcome to the Winding Road Podcast. In this episode, I was able to sit down with Heather Robinette, who is the Revenue Operations manager at a site. And in early 2021, Heather took a director of marketing role at a start-up, only to find herself laid off after about 60 days because the company she joined wasn't ready for marketing.
This was the best thing ever to happen to her because it forced her to reflect on what she enjoyed doing and where she wanted to take her career. She'd always been interested in technology and the process side of marketing, which made her curious about marketing ops as she learned more and more.
Immersed in that world, it became more apparent that Ops was the place for her. With that in mind, she started networking and making connections, and shortly after, she landed a role as the Revenue Operations manager at London-based software development company a site. In this episode, we talk about her pivot from the director of marketing and being responsible for building and executing campaigns to marketing and revenue operations, where she gets to build the program from the ground.
If you're considering making a move or pivoting into ops, this is the episode for you. So sit back, relax, and enjoy.
Heather, welcome to the WH Road podcast. Excited to have you on the show. We’ve, we've had a similar path from and from marketing to marketing ops and rev ops. So happy to share, share your story.
[00:01:33] Heather: Yeah, I'm looking forward to being here and thanks for having me.
[00:01:37] Travis: Cool. And, yeah, I think I keep finding these connections where our paths cross. I think I first met you in the certified mastery, I think, Hansen's group. And then we crossed paths again in the the, mo pros and I just saw that you were also in the pavilion.
Yep. So, yeah, a lot of different, communities and, and things where we've crossed paths and, and so I think, well, I'll come back to that because I think it's an essential piece of a pivot. Yep. But it. We had a very similar path. I guess we were both directors of marketing within the last year and a half, 2021, Right?
[00:02:16] Travis: Is when you Yep. Made your pivot. Sure. And I did the same that same year. Pivoted into ops, rev ops, marketing ops, and so. I'm excited to hear, hear your story and and how you made, made that pivot. So, when you were the director of marketing, did you have any direct reports in that role?
so I actually worked for a, small B2B SaaS startup. small as in like 10 people, small. Oh, wow. so it's one of those. The majority of the company was developers. so, so the best way I like to, to, I guess to explain it, is like there were people, but a lot of times it was, they were contractors, they were external, which sometimes made it even more challenging cuz I did directly oversee everything they did, but had to find the way to balance what that looked like.
so that always made it a little bit interesting to figure out how to work. With them in that way because I didn't completely control everything they got to work on. which made it very interesting. I think it gave me, a lot of good experience, around that and just being able to manage people in a different way.
and also look at it, you know, from their perspective a little bit and just trying to. You know, make the best of a situation. You know, also being a small tech startup, wearing a lot of hats, was also a very big part of it, which also gave me a lot of great experience. .
[00:03:34] Travis: Nice. And, and do you manage people now?
Do you have any direct reports now?
[00:03:38] Heather: Yes. And yeah, now Lead a, Lead a, a team. so there's one other person on my team right now. and then in the, in the coming months, it'll be another person that gets added to the team. there's also another person that, they're not directly on the team, but they work very closely with our team.
so we've kind of taken him in, in as one of our own. so we get to work a lot with him, which has been a lot of.
[00:03:58] Travis: Nice. Nice. And I noticed, I think starting in 2019, you were a HubSpot consultant. were you working with HubSpot before then and then just decided to kind of focus on that? Or did you just start working with HubSpot at
[00:04:10] Heather: that point?
Yeah, so 2017, when I started, at the startup, they had HubSpot. and so it was one of those where just kind of came into the role, learned what HubSpot was, started working with it, for some reason, became fascinated with it, and really just started doing more and more. 2019, kind of fell into it.
essentially someone called me up and was like, Hey, you know, we're implementing HubSpot and need some help. so I actually didn't even do it on my own, just kind of happened. still work with that same company today, but it's really just grown from there. Getting to work with all kinds of different, clients around the world, has been an awesome experience.
and even in my full-time role, gives me a lot of great, skills and just a lot of extra experience that I get to include and even help, you know, essentially the, the experience goes both ways. my freelance helps my full-time job, my full-time job helps my freelance. so it's really cool to get to see.
[00:05:01] Heather: Continuing to pay off.
[00:05:03] Travis: Nice. Yeah. I'm finding the same thing as, as I now have a full-time role, but also have some, some projects I'm still working on, from what I was, was doing my own thing. And then, yeah, there's things that I've done even recently on the kind of freelance stuff that I've turned around and, and mm-hmm.
used in my, my full-time role and, and vice versa. so, so I think it's, it's always good to have, have kind of those, those things. Running on the side because it just gives you just one more, one more way to gain experience and see different things. So, nope, completely agree. Always been a fan of, of that. I don't think I've had just one focal focus, like job or role.
probably since. Before 2003, I think I've Oh wow. Been doing multiple things in some capacity side projects, in some capacity since, since then. So, I don't know what I'd do with my time if I just had one thing to focus on. I don't know if I could deal with that, but, but so, So 2021 came and, and you made, made the pivot to ops.
[00:06:10] Travis: What was the, the reason why? Why did you make that that switch?
[00:06:15] Heather: Yeah.
so 2021 was a, is a very interesting year for me. so beginning of the year, decided to take, I was a director of marketing, at the startup. decided to take a different, director of marketing role at another tech startup.
and they just, they weren't quite ready for marketing. So about 60 days in, I got laid off. Oh wow. which is one of those, like, it's, it's a tech startup. Like it happens, it happens to a lot of people and it's one of those, if it hasn't happened to you, it's probably gonna happen at some point, unfortunately.
but it's one of those that, it's probably one of the best things that did happen to me. it gave me the chance to kind of step back and, and really kind of assess like, is this what I want to do? I've. You know, majored in marketing in college, been doing marketing my entire career. I do love marketing, but it kind of gave me the chance to step back and say like, is this what I really wanna do?
I enjoyed it, but just realizing I might have a passion for something else. at the time I really didn't know what that was. Mm-hmm. , looking back, everything kind of falls into place and it all makes sense now at the time, of course. I didn't know that. Spent two, two months doing a lot of networking, spent time getting to, you know, I took some pavilion classes.
really got to, you know, kind of use that time to my advantage, which was awesome. scary at the same time, of course, not having a job, but, you know, was really able to kind of use, do the most or the time that I could mm-hmm. . and during that time was able to kind of figure out a couple different areas that made sense for what.
[00:07:34] Heather: Enjoyed, in terms of my last role. And so kind of started exploring those two different areas. marketing operations was one I started looking into. just because in that role I did a lot around operations. the biggest challenge I ran up against was I had HubSpot experience, no Salesforce experience.
so that was probably one of the biggest hurdles. the company I work for now, essentially my boss kind of took a chance on me, had the HubSpot knowledge process, knowledge reporting, like all that, Had a lot of that. And just one of those like essentially entrusting that I could learn in Salesforce, has paid off.
[00:08:05] Heather: Things have gone well. So it all worked out. but it was, it was kind of an interesting, path, I guess, if you will. just because a lot of the other marketing operations roles like that was usually the one sticking point, is not having those other experiences yet. Mm-hmm. . but yeah. And then. You know, it technically was a marketing operations role and by day three it turned into revenue operations
[00:08:25] Travis: and here we are,
Nice. Yeah. But I think that the sales, the Salesforce piece is, is definitely a big part of it. Right. And I've used Salesforce as a user. Back in the day in sales roles. so I, I, if I got into it, it'd look familiar, but from an ops perspective, it, you know, it, I don't have that experience either, but I'm actually just starting to get into it now.
because a lot of people have Salesforce with. Yep. It's HubSpot Marketing Hub Pro, right? And so, Yep. Gotta figure those out. And the, the, the language is not the same. it doesn't translate no campaign. The campaign is not the same. And I'm learning those little things, right? That, Yep. What does this mean in Salesforce and what does this mean in HubSpot?
so, so you almost need like a duo lingo for, for Salesforce to like understand like how to speak that language. But, but yeah, I think. As I've gotten into it and started to, to kind of immerse myself in the op side, it feels like there's like three core technologies, platforms, Salesforce, HubSpot, Marketo, and yep.
[00:09:31] Travis: If you know those three, you're in pretty good, pretty good shape. Yep. Exactly. So now I've gotta learn the Marketo piece. And from what I've seen of it, I mean, I know it's, it's powerful, but man, it looks like a beast. So, Yep. So that's, that's next, next step, to, to learn. But, But yeah. And so, yeah, I think it's interesting that you said you kind of took some time reflected trying to, to figure out what you wanted to be when you grew up.
I, I did the same thing, and it, and it almost sounds like it was the same for you as it was for me, as when as you started to go down the ops path. And you look back, it seems obvious, that that's where you landed. And for me, as I look back on my previous roles and what I've done, Somehow, no matter what role I've been in, I've always been the the person that ends up in the tech part of it and developing the tech stack and doing the research and pulling it together and building the processes and advising on, Well, this is what we should use for this and this is what we should use for this, and here's how we'll build it and pull it together.
And almost every single role, that's what I eventually like found myself doing. So when I look back, I'm like, it's probably, I found myself doing that because I volunteered for it, because I enjoyed it and it was fun. And and so why not just do that now, you know? Yep. So, so yeah, I did the same thing. I, Kind of, I call it a, a slow batal,
I heard Charlie Gilkey, who has a podcast. And I was listening to one of his episodes and he and his wife were talking about sabbaticals and slow battles. And, and as I listened to that, I thought, well, I think that's pretty much what I was doing, because I left my director role and just started to learn HubSpot, do my own thing.
And just kind of figure it out. And I was making money and actually did pretty well with it. I, I became gold, gold partner, gold tier, right before I left and took my full-time role. Oh wow. and within a year, that was my goal. I become gold, by next August, when I started last August. And, did it.
And I was kinda surprised actually that it happened. And,and as I look back, I was still trying to figure out like mm-hmm. , what parts of this do I like, What do I want to do? with ops, with HubSpot? Yeah. with any other, parts of the tech stack, right? And Yep. And so when, when Charlie mentioned a slow backal, I'm like, Yeah, it's pretty much what I was doing.
I was working, I was making money, but I was trying to figure it out. I was going slow. I was kind of taking my time and, just kind of figuring it all out. So, yeah, a hundred percent. So that's what I like to think of it as now. . So, in what, what's, what's been something a, as you look back over the past year, year and a half, of your pivot?
What's something that's happened or, or something about ops that you ran across that you didn't really expect before you made the pivot? What was, what surprised you throughout this journey?
[00:12:38] Heather: I mean, I think for me it's one of those where, one, I never really knew what ops was. especially marketing, operations, revenue, operations, all those, I think I had heard of it, but never really understood.
and then just realizing just how big it was and it's growing, especially revenue operations, seems to, to really be kind of the buzzword these days. so really it's been interesting, to really watch that grow. I had no idea. so that was kind of one of the interesting things is I came into a marketing operations role, to be honest, at the time, like revenue operations, I had never really heard of.
so kind of coming into a role. I really didn't even know that existed a year ago. so that was probably the most interesting thing for me. you know, and two, just realizing the community that comes with it. there's so many awesome communities around operations, and just, just being supportive of each other.
that's probably been one of the coolest things that I found. just operations in general, across the
[00:13:32] Travis: board. Yeah. Yeah. That, that's interesting. And, and I would agree, and I think there, there we, we gotta tie back to communities. Yes. and I think that that's probably been the same for me too. that, you know, I think when we were in marketing, like just kind of general marketing and there's like a its own world, right?
And you have your conferences that you kind of go to around what you do with marketing and. , you kind of see the same people and you follow the same people on LinkedIn and Twitter and things like that. And as I started to explore ops, and it sounds like you've found the same thing like. It's like it was a new world, like a whole new world, new people, new new communities.
It's like, where have these people been my whole life? Thank you. How has this just been a thing that I didn't really know about? And, and yet here it is, like it feels like a perfect fit. yep. And so, so yeah, I think in the communities, in making a pivot, I, I, I found that that's been one of the most crucial parts of it Yep.
Is just developing those relationships, being able to be a fly on the wall and just like absorb what people are talking about in Slack and mm-hmm. , in, in Zoom calls, masterminds and things like that. yeah, to just, just really start to just immerse yourself in that, in that world. Yep. So, so that's been key for me.
It sounds like it has been for you as. .
[00:15:01] Heather: Yeah, no, it's, it's been huge. and just I feel like through, especially through these communities, just the number of people I've met, and the, the co part is it's not really that hard to meet people. through those communities, it's pretty easy to, to find and connect with other people.
the nice thing is it's pretty easy to usually share some commonality of whatever you're going through. Mm-hmm. , which has been the other nice thing is it's really easy to have those conversations, just because a lot of times either they've experienced what you're going through or they're experiencing it the same time.
so it's just those conversations have been. Nice. Sometimes you just feel like you have someone else who knows what you're going
[00:15:34] Travis: through. Mm-hmm. . Exactly. Yeah. And, and it can be intimidating. You know, when I first started to get into that world and I started to sit in on Hansen's calls, Mastermind calls, I just felt like I was lost.
Like, wow. I hope Hansen doesn't ask me to say something because , I have nothing to say, nothing to contribute. Right now I'm just here for the, for the, the listening to everyone else, converse. but, but then like when I, you know, and, and you and I had, had been on those calls and then we were both at the Mopro summer camp and it wasn't until, and I've, I've seen your LinkedIn profile and it wasn't until after that I think I looked, and it started to connect with people and I was like, Holy cow.
Like. She pivoted the same time I did. So like we're going through this the same and it's kind of nice to see someone else at the same point of the journey, right? And feel like, like, okay, I belong and this is, the right path. And there's other people doing the same thing right now. Right? So, Yeah.
Made the, the ops world a little smaller, a little, like, a little more recognizable. So, Cool. And what, what do you think has been the biggest challenge in the pivot that, that you've made?
yeah. Biggest challenge. So, I mean the, the interesting thing I've found, especially with, with rev ops, is a lot of times you get people who tend to start with sales ops and move over.
having a, especially like a, like a traditional true marketing background coming into it, kind of, you know, frogging over marketing operations into it. It's just sometimes it's been interesting, I guess, just because people have, you know, these years and years of experience doing kind of these operational things, and I've done some of it, but like, I've had your more traditional, like I've built the campaigns, I've, you know, done X like I've done your more, like I'm the marketing manager you were working with, versus, you know, some of them where it's, you know, they've been doing this for 10 years, you know, and I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm six months into this.
[00:17:35] Heather: It's going well. I think I should be here. so probably the biggest challenge is sometimes I'd say either imposter syndrome or just. Feeling like I'm really behind on things. but at the same time, I do feel like my experience kind of brings an interesting aspect to it. you know, especially from a marketing standpoint, just because I do have a lot of that knowledge.
A lot of times I do understand what the marketing team is going through, what they're doing, which is helpful. And then from my last startup, I was, I mean, it was a small company and so like was very involved in the sales and marketing teams. so that's also given me a lot of insight. So, Being able to do a lot of like, building out that sales process and never really having been in sales ops or doing anything like that from a, like true title, reflective position.
but still getting to have some of that experience. But I'd say that's probably been the, the one challenge in some ways. and I'd say a lot of it really just comes back to just imposter syndrome a lot of times. Mm-hmm. .
[00:18:30] Travis: Yeah, definitely. And how coming in with, from, from that, compared to other people who are in the same role coming from, from the sales and revenue side, how, how have you been received in, in that role and in your ideas and, and your kind of diverse way of, of thinking of things Just coming from the, the other angle,
[00:18:53] Heather: I mean, I'd say from a company standpoint, revenue operations did not exist before.
So the upside is no one knew any different anyway, . So it was fine. you know, so it's one of those we've been building and teaching as we go. so that's been, I think positive, you know, we've had the opportunity to, to kind of build and teach. They also don't really know me as a marketing professional.
They've only seen me in operations. so that's kind of been the interesting thing too. but I'd say for me, like that's probably been the, the biggest thing. Yeah, I, I mean, for me and my current company, like building and teaching has been one of the, the biggest things I found. and that's, I think, helped a lot of people better understand revenue operations, better understand what we do.
yeah, I don't know. I think I, I think obviously if I would've gone from a true marketing position into this at the same company, I do think it would've been a little bit different, and probably would've been received a little bit differently, having drastically changed positions.
[00:19:46] Travis: Mm-hmm. , isn't it?
Thought I heard my four year old out. isn't it interesting? After making the pivot, to, to have people only know you. Mm-hmm. in that capacity when we've got this whole, you know, depth of experience that we've done that isn't ops and, and now we're known as that and it hasn't been been that long.
[00:20:09] Travis: It's just kind of a, a, a finance, just kind of a. A weird, weird thing.
[00:20:15] Heather: Yeah, it's, it's been interesting just because a lot of times you're looked at as you have all this experience and it's like, I have experience not really doing this, but doing this. and so it's, it's definitely been interesting. you know, I kind of.
Kind of chalk it up to like, looking at your different phases of life. Like you were in high school, you went to college, you graduate and potentially move away. and people know you in those different phases and you're most likely a little bit different in each of those phases. you know, so people who know me now professionally and work with me, know me as a very different person than I was to my high school friends of what I was like then.
Mm-hmm. . not that I've changed a lot, but it's just one of those. , you know, I come from a small town. so it's, it's just one of those, like, it's looked at differently, like you're looked at as you were in high school. Mm-hmm. , you know, so I kind of, I kind of look at it very similar to, to your different stages in life and just what that's like.
in terms of how your experiences change.
[00:21:06] Travis: Yeah. That, that's an interesting way to look at it. And it's so true. Like I grew up in a small town in Indiana, so same thing, like if, if, if I went back there, they'd think of me as that person Yep. Way back in the day. And then not even close to the same, same person.
Right. But
[00:21:21] Heather: doesn't matter what you've accomplished. Yeah. You were just
[00:21:23] Travis: still that person. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's kind of wild. and even if I went back to the company that I was a director at, like they'd still think I. Involved with that kind of marketing. Right? Yep. and it's almost like I'm a completely different person.
Yep. Just from, from that role. So, so yeah. It's, it's, it's, interesting and. I still think it's weird when my, my, coworkers introduce me to clients as the revs expert, the HubSpot expert. And I'm like, I've never been comfortable with expert tied to anything that I've done, no matter what it is. and now it's really weird.
It's like, don't use that word. You're like,
[00:21:59] Heather: Well, I know some smarter people, but I'll take it. I'll take it.
[00:22:03] Travis: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. and yeah, I think that's more of that imposter syndrome. Like, I'm not, I'm not qualified to be an expert one. Really like you think about it. We are, we know enough, right?
For who we need to serve in that moment. . Yep. And the people who know nothing about what we do, we're an expert. Right. So, Exactly. So yeah, it's all relative . Yeah. In our morose conversations, I am not an expert. Oh
[00:22:29] Heather: yeah, no, definitely. Yep. I'm with you on that one.
[00:22:34] Travis: it. Cool. And, and looking back over the past year, again, like and, and how you've gone through the pivot.
What would you maybe do differently now that you know what you know?
[00:22:51] Heather: Ooh, that's a good question. I mean, I'd say I'd probably still do a lot of the same things I did cuz it, it is very much how I got to where I am. I mean, a lot of things I would do differently would probably be more related to like the job itself.
As far as the decisions and things I went through in order to get to that point, I, I dunno that I would change any of those experiences, just because of how I was able to, I mean, to me, those two months, just amazing kind of what I went through and just the changes that kind of came from it.
[00:23:26] Heather: Mm-hmm. , you know, so for me, I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't change anything. . One of the toughest things always with that though, is, you know, you're in the process of looking for a job and you have no idea how long it's gonna take. Mm-hmm. . and the hardest part is meeting people who have been looking for a job for six to nine months.
Mm-hmm. , and you're like, I don't know if I can do that, . and so it's just like staying positive and things like that was, was tough. but at the same time, just, you know, continuing to push forward, I just, I found that routine and I got very good. So it almost was kind of weird to start working again.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. but yeah, so I mean, as far as all of that went, I wouldn't change anything that happened. and as, as much as it wasn't fun to be laid off, I mean, that was probably one of the best things that happened last year to me.
[00:24:04] Travis: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, it can be a forcing function, right? Like exactly. Making you do what you probably should have done anyway.
A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. That, that's nice when that, when that happens and, and you can reflect on it in that way. Yes. Right? Yes. when, when you look back, as you started to, to make that transition, get learn and, and absorb this stuff, is there anything that you look back on? About where you were and, and, and then think about what you know now and, and where you're at now and you're just like blown away by where you were just a year ago compared, compared to now.
[00:24:44] Heather: Yeah. I mean, when I started in the role, obviously like from a HubSpot standpoint was fairly talented. I'd say, you know, still continuing to learn, but you. I still would calm myself fairly talented at HubSpot. but you know, a year ago when I started at the company, I'd never logged into Salesforce before.
you know, and at this point now, myself and the other person on the team, we essentially function as the admins. we just, we've learned it and became the admins. so it's just one of those, like, it's hard to believe from barely logging in and figuring out how to add a new user to, you know, now we're in the process.
[00:25:18] Heather: I mean, we make weekly changes. You know, we're changing processes, doing all kinds of things. you know, between the systems, what all that looks like. , you know, in a year ago I could barely log in . So it's just one of those, like just the night and day difference, especially to a system like Salesforce.
Mm-hmm. . just knowing how far, I've come and just, I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort, a lot of learning mm-hmm. , to get to that point. but it's been worth it, you know, just being able to make the impact. I've been able to make. I'm glad I've had that opportunity.
[00:25:48] Travis: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I mean, I think it, it's gonna be hard when you're making a pivot into something new and even if you have a general understanding and have done some of the things.
Yep. There's so much to learn about everything, which is why I have a hard time with an expert, like being considered an expert because I don't think I could ever be an expert and know everything about everything. No. So, no. and so, so yeah, I think. If you can't, and this is kind of, I wrote a book in 2020.
Oh, wow. And the thing about that is, is like if, if, and what I've kind of heard about it, and it's true, find, come find out. It's true that if you write a book and then a few years later you look back at it what you wrote and you don't cringe a little. , it means you haven't grown, like you haven't been able to keep pushing through and see things differently.
And yeah, I look at a book as like a snapshot in time of what I knew how I thought in that moment, and I just happened to write it out. share it with the world . And I think that's kind of how it is, making a pivot and learning new things. You don't know what you don't know. You get in and you're gonna, you have to, you have to bump up against that next edge mm-hmm.
to even see it. Like you can't even see what's ahead until you bump up against this thing. Mm-hmm. , get through that, then bump up against the next thing, and then pretty soon you're in this area. You wouldn't be there if you hadn't gone through those things. Right. And, and learned those things first. And, and I look back at my book and I'm just like, Ugh, I can't believe I wrote that, or I can't believe that's what I thought then.
And, and if I could, if I did it now, I would change this. And so, Yep. I don't wanna write a second edition , but it's just, it is what it is. and, and I, I kind of feel the same, same way about making a pivot, that you're gonna look back and there's gonna be some cringeworthy things that you. And if you went back in time and could just like shadow yourself, you'd be like, Ah, why are you doing it that way?
Like, what are you doing? Oh yeah, . But if you don't have that, like you haven't grown, right? Correct. So, so I think it's just par for the course and you can just look back and, and kinda laugh at it at it now. So,
[00:28:08] Heather: Yeah, no, completely agree. And especially like transitioning into something else. Mm-hmm. , you're then really able to kind of look back and, I mean for me, like some of the stuff operationally that I was doing in the past, just since that is all I do now, being able to look back and kind of reflect on things I was doing before and.
You know, at that point I had zero skill, which is kind of doing things what I thought was best, but had zero training, just kind of running through it. but just looking back and knowing like, I could have done this, I could have done that. just knowing all these other things I could have done. But I mean, that is also how I figured out what I like to do and how I got here, even though I didn't realize it at the time.
Mm-hmm. . but it's one of those, Yeah. Completely agree. but yeah, looking back, if you feel like you couldn't. Done anything differently, in those, those types of situations, then yeah, you, you probably have not grown a ton mm-hmm. , and have not sought out ways to learn and grow, really in any kind of area.
which really isn't that hard to do these days. Yeah, exactly. There's information
[00:29:05] Travis: everywhere. Yeah, exactly. And, and I think. It's gonna, it's gonna be hard and it's gonna be scary. And you could easily just quit and just say, I'm not gonna do that. It's too hard, it's too scary. It makes me too nervous. but I remember Seth Goden has said something, I just have kind of thought about this whole time that.
If you feel that fear, it really means you're headed in the right direction. It's because you're starting to get into the unknown, the things you don't know. You're starting to get into a different world and, and you're aware of that, and I think that's part of what imposter syndrome is. You know, enough.
To know what you don't know and it scares you, right? Yeah. and and so I've kind of used fear as a compass, and I remember back about the beginning of the year, end of last year, beginning of this year, and some of the things, some of the projects I would work on would be with other agencies, other HubSpot agencies.
here and there. And, and I was working with an agency, the beginning of the year who needed help training. and I was still, you know, just learning. I mean, I'd been doing HubSpot really. I mean, I did a little bit like in 2014, thought about becoming a partner then, So I kind of knew a little bit, but that's, They just had like marketing hub and that was it back then. Yeah, I was gonna say it's completely different. Yeah. Completely different.
[00:30:23] Travis: And just started getting into it last August and, and it hadn't even been, hasn't, hadn't even six months yet that I'd been doing it. And, and I'm training and I was so nervous and I remember like, The, the night before I knew I had to get up and like the first thing I had to do was like at 8:00 AM a training session with one of their clients.
And I just felt so scared and I was so nervous and I'm like, Oh, maybe I should just tell 'em like, I can't do this like that. I'm not the right person to, to do this. Right? And I just said, No. Like, that means I'm, that's how I'm gonna learn. I've gotta do it. And if I can teach somebody how to do this, then I'm gonna learn.
Anyway, Right. So, Yep. So I powered through and it was some of the scariest stuff I've done in the last year. And and now I look back on that and I'm just like, Yeah, that'd be so easy now. And Oh yeah. And, Yeah, I can't believe I was that nervous and kind of, and that those nerves just like, they don't help you.
Right? Cause then I just, like, I'd get freaked out. I'd fumble around things and stuff that I knew mm-hmm. , I'd be like, where is that again? Where is that thing that I've done every day for the last six months? like, and so it just manifest into something even worse. But, but yeah, that was, that was a cringe worthy moment when if I were to go back and shadow myself then.
And just kind of see, see my, Well, I, I could, I can watch the videos. I don't want to those. I'm never gonna watch those again. But I could go back and if I wanted to cringe, I could watch those videos, of the training. But, but yeah. that was a cringeworthy moment for me. and, and so we've done a lot of, like looking back and reflection on the pivot.
If we were to look forward, what does the future look like for Heather in ops in the next six months, year, two years?
yeah, I mean, so for me a lot of it is, You know, continuing down this path, you know, kind of continuing down that director VP type role. you know, continuing to those leadership roles is what I'm looking to do.
you know, and just continuing to be a part of the community, helping educate, you know, and being a, a big member of the HubSpot side of things, of course, too. but just really being able to, to. I guess a person within the, the, the operations community that also is continuing to help, not only be helpful to other people, but also continuing to bring awareness, I guess, to operations.
[00:32:41] Heather: So for me, a lot of it's the, the college students I speak with, you know, especially if they're interested in, in marketing and things like that. also, Just sharing what I do and just sharing what that looks like. you know, cause it's one of those, I don't know that it's even ever brought up as, Hey, here's something you could do in the future.
I'm sure a lot of it's, they kind of stumble into it, like many of us . so for me too, it's even just talking to college students about, you don't have to do it right now, but just know that this is out there and if you. Enjoy the technology and process side of things. You know, this could be a future area to look into.
so for me, really just kind of that educational piece and just making sure people are just aware it exists. You know, it's something that I wish I knew about way sooner than I did. Yeah. So
[00:33:24] Travis: same here. Tell me a little bit about the, working with students. is that part of a program that you're part.
[00:33:30] Heather: So, on, on part of it, it's, so I went to Kansas State University, and they have an executive mentor program. and so you get paired, with different students. so I currently work with two different students. one of my mentees, that I, my original mentee, the first one I started working with, actually just graduated back in May.
but you get paired with different students, so it's a chance to, to work with them throughout their college career. so yeah, that's been cool. that also opens you up to different opportunities. There's usually a lot of networking. so essentially the students get to practice networking in a safe space.
[00:33:57] Heather: So they'll invite the executive mentors in. cause obviously we are already invested in the students. so it gives you a chance to meet a lot of different students and just share what you do, share what your company does. they get to learn a little bit more. So that's been an awesome opportunity.
there's also an organization I've volunteered with that, Directly works with college students. so I've gotten the chance to, to work with college students, across the US as well as across the world. so just getting that opportunity as well to, to really help share that as well, just from a, a, you know, professional development standpoint.
just being able to help out wherever I can.
[00:34:29] Travis: Nice. That's awesome. Yeah, I used to have a K State t-shirt. I tried to find it. I have no idea where it is. I was gonna wear it today. cuz all my friends in Denver went to K State and yes, Akin did a lot of watch parties for
[00:34:42] Heather: football. Oh yes, yes. There's a, there's a hot spot there in Denver for K State watch parties.
Yeah.
[00:34:47] Travis: Oh yeah. Yeah. One of my most fun moments was, and I was just thinking about it earlier in the conversation I had with someone else was, I was on a kickball team and I don't know if I told you this, when we were at Morose, I was on a kickball team that was at City Park in Denver and , I mean, and I was the only non K State person on, on the team.
And it was such an awesome league that, That there were kegs of beer. Yep. And we had cups like for the league. And you had the, the rule was you had to have a cup of beer in your hand. At all times during the game and oh wow. You couldn't have an empty cup, like, and it had to be at least half full. So you're, you're kicking and you've got a half full cup of beer and you're out in the field, playing.
You've got a half full cup of beer. And, so it was, it was a lot of fun. And, we That's awesome. Did really well at the drinking part of it. . That sounds about right. . So, yeah, that was one of my, my best memories of Denver and that, that league only happened for a year and then they, the park decided, no, we don't need kegs of beer, Park.
So, so it got shut down, but it was fun while it lasted.
[00:35:56] Heather: So That is, that is really cool. Can't say I've heard about anything else even close
[00:36:01] Travis: to that . Yeah, it was, it was fun. , you smelled like beer after you can, I can imagine. You're not gonna play and not spell all over yourself. No. So, yeah. So you're running the bases with, with beer in your hand.
So it was, it was wild, but it was fun. So cool. And, and so, You know, last question I have is, you know, you mentioned you're talking with students and, and helping them. and that's part of what I hope to do with, with this podcast and with, other things I do with winding road careers, is really help people make pivots.
Mm-hmm. , especially into ops. I feel like I've, I've. Been better at making pivots than anything I've done in my career, . So I might as well just help people do that cause I'm really good at it. True. better than what I actually pivot into. but, with, with that, what advice would you give, to someone who, who maybe is in marketing doing something else, maybe at the campaign level, or even demand gen, who wants to pivot into, into.
yeah, I mean, one I'd start with, you know, is that a role that exists within your company? you know, if so, those are just people to have a conversation with, understand what they do. you know, and then it's one of those like, find ways to volunteer to take on some things. you know, it at least gives you some experience so, It gives you the opportunity to figure out, is this what you wanna do?
you know, if that's maybe not always the case, always use LinkedIn. Leverage LinkedIn, find people reach out. you know, a lot of it's gonna be whether you feel comfortable doing that at your company or not, but there's, as we talked about, an awesome ops community and always looking for more ops people, you know, so just taking the time, reach out to some different ops.
[00:37:36] Heather: People have a conversation about what do they do. Day to day, what does that look like? and just kind of figuring out, you know, one, is that what you wanna do? is that what interests you? And then two, you know, using that information to go back to your company and, and seeing kind of where you can find small tasks just to start to gain that experience where you can.
Cause the biggest thing is gonna be gaining that experience so that when you do wanna make that move, whether it's internally or externally, you at least can speak to experience where you've done those things. that's probably one of. The things I had going for me, while I didn't have the Salesforce experience, I had a lot of the other experience, just in different things I did.
so it made the conversation a little bit easier in terms of being able to explain like why I was a fit for the role. you know, you know, really it was just one of those where Salesforce was holding me back was about it. so the biggest thing I'd say is just starting to, to gain that experience where you can, you know, The other thing I always like to encourage people to do too is if you can't find that,
[00:38:32] Heather: look for ways to volunteer with organizations in your community.
you know, obviously they may not always use as much technology, but you'd be surprised, a lot of the non-profits and things like that. Do have technology. so just finding some different ways to kind of get in there. And especially if you're gonna volunteer your time, they're gonna probably be more than willing to bring you on.
especially if you're just starting out. It's a good way to gain experience. and who knows, over time you might be starting a consulting side gig with it, and that can always lead you into a, a new role in the future. after building up a side business while you were working.
[00:39:04] Travis: Yeah. Absolut. Yeah.
That's great. Great advice. A lot of ways to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And my act, actually, my first HubSpot implementation, when I was on my own was with a non-profit, team Jack. The shirt I'm wearing, wearing now. the timing was weird, like, I had just decided to, I had just like, put in my resignation and decided to leave and, and do this HubSpot thing.
Yep. At the same time, I, I had been working with Team Jack since like 2014, 15, a while doing other paid search and things like that and, They had started talking to me about, Hey, you know, I think we're gonna go with Salesforce. And I'm like, Oh, . No. Like this is like a four person non-profit in Nebraska.
Oh wow. And I'm just like, Salesforce is gonna be a beast. It's a lot more than than you need. Yep. yeah, they've got their free non-profit thing, but free is not always free. And you're gonna have to pay somebody $10,000 to come. Set it up. Exactly, Exactly. Whereas HubSpot, you won't, you know, there's a lot you can do out of the box and mm-hmm.
it's really just a matter of like, just getting it connected and working and training you. Right. I said, let's look at HubSpot. Gave 'em a demo, started walking 'em through that and and they ended up going with HubSpot and that was my first implementation and onboarding and and it's worked out really.
Since. So with the automations, I mean, a four person team is able to do all kinds of stuff Yep. They weren't able to do before because they can automate so much. Right. So yeah, it's amazing. So, so yeah, nonprofits definitely have, there's, and now, Oh yeah, HubSpot, actually I was able to get it retroactive or not, not like I was, They, they, they're now offering a 40% discount to nonprofits.
Ah, okay. which they weren't doing that when I. Started, back in August and I've been like fighting him ever since, like, once that came out, like last November, December, I'm like, Hey, can I get this for my client that's non-profit? No, it, you know, we instituted this after. I just kept pushing and pushing and finally at the renewal, a month ago, I, I got the discount for him.
Nice. So it was a big win. Yeah, it was. So, so yeah, if, price is an issue that the, the, the discount for nonprofits makes it Yep. A lot more affordable, so, Yep. So, so, yeah. very cool. Cool. Well, yeah, I really appreciate you, you coming on the show to, to chat about your journey and, I think it'll be very beneficial to people who are, thinking about, about making that that move.
So, so really appreciate it.
[00:41:36] Heather: Yeah. Thanks for having me. Enjoyed our conversation.
[00:41:38] Travis: Yeah, you bet. And if people wanna connect with you, learn from you, where, where can they, where can they find you?
I mean, LinkedIn's the best place. people are always happy, are always, welcome to connect with me. they can send me a message, always happy to jump on a call, share my experience, talk through anything you know, that they're going through or any advice that they'd be looking for.
so yeah, LinkedIn's probably the best place to find.
[00:41:58] Travis: Awesome. And I'll put, I'll put a link to your profile in the, in the show notes. So people again Awesome. Thank you. Can find you. And and yeah, I look forward to seeing you in, in the next, mastermind or, or somewhere in morose where so many places.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Cool. Yeah. Well, thanks a lot. Awesome. Yeah, thank
[00:42:15] Heather: you.
