Be the most expensive dog trainer in your area.
Why you Should be the most Expensive Dog Trainer
Dog trainers chronically undercharge, yet they overdeliver. Unless you are in it for charity, you have to get real with your money. In general, price and quality are inversely related. You either get a great price or great quality. Not both. And clients know this!
In today's episode, Kristen is joined by Emily for an insightful discussion on pricing for dog training, what to charge, and how you can charge more. If you are in need of savvy tips on pricing for dog training and would love to clear all the cobwebs in your head around your opposition to other people spending money on your dog training services, this episode is definitely for you!
Tune in as Kristen and Emily talk about:
… and so much more!
What's next:
Did the episode spark any questions or comments on pricing for dog training? Or do you wish to work with us on growing your Dog Biz or get a direct link to Kristen's calendar:
https://www.dogbizschool.com/work-with-us
Follow Kristen:
Instagram: @badassdogbiz
Favorite Quote:
Pricing for dog training sustainably is not just about covering your basic needs but more about looking at your business's long-term growth and ensuring that the value of your time is given back to you.
Be the most expensive dog trainer in your area.
Why you Should be the most Expensive Dog Trainer
Dog trainers chronically undercharge, yet they overdeliver. Unless you are in it for charity, you have to get real with your money. In general, price and quality are inversely related. You either get a great price or great quality. Not both. And clients know this!
In today's episode, Kristen is joined by Emily for an insightful discussion on pricing for dog training, what to charge, and how you can charge more. If you are in need of savvy tips on pricing for dog training and would love to clear all the cobwebs in your head around your opposition to other people spending money on your dog training services, this episode is definitely for you!
Tune in as Kristen and Emily talk about:
… and so much more!
What's next:
Did the episode spark any questions or comments on pricing for dog training? Or do you wish to work with us on growing your Dog Biz or get a direct link to Kristen's calendar:
https://www.dogbizschool.com/work-with-us
Follow Kristen:
Instagram: @badassdogbiz
Favorite Quote:
Pricing for dog training sustainably is not just about covering your basic needs but more about looking at your business's long-term growth and ensuring that the value of your time is given back to you.
Welcome to the myON dog business podcast. I'm your host, the leading pet business expert. Kristen Lee. Here's the thing I help dog business owners just like yourself. Become powerful as fuck without sacrificing more yet. No more sacrificing everybody. There's enough going on as dog trainers. We'll be talking about growing your dog business through seven figure sales strategies, marketing that feels authentic as fuck and especially works in the hot topics you care about as a dog business entrepreneur and everything in between. Not to mention interviews with some the leading dog business owners out there today, get ready to grow and disrupt the way you do in the business of dogs. Let's do. Today. I have one of my favorite guests here, officially in the podcast studio. Woohoo. We got a pod we're we're moving up. M I know big time, big time in a podcast studio over here. But today we have Emily talking about building value and pricing yourself above everyone else. And this is one of those things where people like get their panties in a wad and it's like super uncomfortable to talk about. Even we see this with some of our school students and our super high end clients too, around value and valuing yourself. And is it necessarily confidence around it or is it more of like, I don't know. Emily, what do you think like around valuing yourself about that, knowing your worst and appropriate boundaries with pricing, and then understanding like the long game, I think too, with what you're doing with your life mm-hmm and not just this short term. Yeah. Kinda mindset. Yeah. It all ties into, I mean, I really, even we could talk about. Sustainability in a business, comes back down to pricing. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, it's really interesting too. Cause I was just talking to Emily. We were briefing right before this conversation. We had quarterly. Emily, what the fuck are quarterly? it's a kind of running inside joke. And one of the two topics that came up and I actually had this conversation with Hannah yesterday. Y'all might remember her around pricing and people. And this is something exclusive. Well, I don't think it's just exclusive, cuz you're gonna share about your friend or. your friend Robbie around like the whole, like pricing yourself and like kind of like the mind fact that comes around that cuz like immediately what a lot of dog trainers do. And I don't know Emily, if you've seen this, you know, you've been in this industry forever about when they price themselves at a higher thing, they always feel like they need to give more, more, more, more themselves when it's just like coming up to like meet market, meet, not necessarily inflation, but meet market expectations. I don't know. Does that sound right? Do you, do you know what I'm talking about? I think that, yeah, people. Under price while dog trainers chronically under price and over deliver Uhhuh. And that is like the fast track to resentment and burnout in a lot of really, you know, huge problems. Yeah. Personally, and then, yeah. You know, having appropriate pricing, isn't just about, you said inflation or, you know, meeting the market standards as much as it is about. You having a sustainable business for yourself and having that's back to the long term view. Yeah. I mean, what are you wanting to do? Exactly. And I always say, or recently have been starting to say, when people go, you're the, you're the highest priced dog trainer I've spoken to in the area. I'll thank them. And then what came from that also is I was talking to my business partner and I go, could you imagine someone saying, you're the cheapest I've that would be like Uhhuh. So embarrassing. I'd be like, oh my God, no, you know, like that's not a, that's not a badge you want to hold is my services are lo the lowest end. You can never find out there. Right. I just don't think that the, at the level of work that we do in dog training and like the amount of care and. Involvement in people's lives that it takes, you know, you really need to be looking at, am I pricing sustainably or is this something that's going to burn me out? Ultimately, when you say pricing sustainably, we might have different definitions of that. But what is your definition of pricing yourself as a dog trainer or a dog business owner sustainably? Well, so one thing that I see, yeah, we're gonna have different. This is not, I don't think Kristen and I are gonna get into the dollar amounts that we think of. No, we're not gonna do that. No, absolutely not. And that's gonna be something that is based on so many other factors that if you, you know, you're working with. Kristen or you are just, you know, have some knowledge about program design. There's still a lot of factors that go into that. But pricing yourself sustainably is not just about covering your basic needs. It's about looking at the long term growth of your business and making sure that you are the value of your time is giving back to you. so that you can give the most to your client without creating any issue in your personal life, which creates the ability, sorry to use the word, create so much to continue to have clients, because I think a lot of also, I know a lot of dog trainers come blue collar jobs, you know, we were workers. Like I was a, I went to culinary school as a young young kid and, you know, I was in that kind of clocking clock out mindset. So if you're making $10 an hour, 15, 20 from a job, and then all of a sudden you're making. Several thousand dollars doing a board and train that might feel like, wow, like this is I could, I never saw myself making this much money, which I remember that time in my career where I was like, I had 20 grand in the bank at that time. And I thought, wow, this is it. You know, like I've really made it. But truth be told now as a 30 something year old, 20 grand would not have actually gotten me to retirement. I would not have been able to survive the rest of my life on 20 grand. Right. Although it seemed like this endless amount of money at the time. And so. Your concept around money and like old habits you have around money have to change. When you're looking at the growth of a business, it's not about what you think you need. It's about what this greater concept in your vision requires. And that means you price higher. You have. Longer term clients that take you seriously. Mm. We haven't even touched that one. Right? The, about that more seriously. Yeah. And then, you know, you are able to grow from there instead of always being in this like hustle crisis. And I'm sure if you've been a follower of Kristen's podcasts, she talks about hustle crisis burnout cycle. I haven't talked much about it yet. Oh, well, you're get stuck in it. If you don't price appropriately and you're not, and you don't have healthy relationship with money. So I think it's about sustainability and you know, everything else too. If you are a one man show. You need to do it, but if, if you are a multiple person operation, it's the only way to grow and pay your people what they're worth as well. So, yeah. Well, I know it's really interesting too. It's like in the last couple years, I've noticed like the market for dog training shifted. Oh, I forgot to tell you. And this is kind of like an off, I want this in the podcast right now, so, okay. Maggie. And I, I, I had a free time this week and I stumbled across that actual segmentation of data for dog training services alone. And it's really interesting because, you know, you think about the pet industry, what it's like 120 plus billion a year, but that includes veterinary services, dog insurance, food, and stuff like that. But the, in the spending for dog training services, and I'm not talking about dog walking or pet sitting or kenneling services is actually about to hit a billion right now. Wow. Yeah, it's insane. So there's been some spending that's gone down, but consumer spending for dog training alone, and this is. Like legit data y'all if you wanna go pay for the data, you can go do it, but it's, it's gone up. I think it was like 25% just in dog training. It's really, it's a really cool fucking report. I gotta show you at some point. That's exciting. Yeah. I mean, so people are willing to spend and we see that, you know, clients are getting the trainer before they get the dog. They have a dog in Q that they're gonna adopt and they're already. Researching what trainer they'll is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's just become a norm now to have a trainer. And, and now, and I know Kristen and Maggie have talked about this for a while. It's not just a norm to have a trainer. It's a norm to have a trainer for the long. Yeah. People are not looking at it like a quick fix there's the language has developed the education around what dog training means. And so there's this opportunity to have a lifetime client. If you are developing your programs in pricing correctly and giving the services the right way, like it all ties in together. But part of that puzzle absolutely. is appropriately pricing at a high enough benchmark that they're taking you seriously, that you're taking the job seriously, and that you can stick with those clients for the long term. Can you talk about like how charging, you know, significantly more than others? Like to the point of like where it's holy crap, what the fuck are you doing? What the fuck am I doing? Creates that longer term value with that client, the client that takes you a little bit more seriously versus the people that are just like they come to your puppy class and then they piece the fuck out. You don't see. Yeah, well, I mean, I saw a, a dog trainer maybe like it was like a TikTok or Instagram reel or something that was like, kind of doing the like finger pointing at the words thing. And she was. I don't make you pay ahead of time. I instead, it's a pay as you go thing. And I thought, I don't know who she was just somebody in the world mm-hmm but I thought about that and I go, is that also to me, what I just heard was I'm gonna figure out how to train as I go as well. If you're, if I'm asking the client to pay as they go, do I know how this is gonna work out? As we go, it showed immediately a lack of confidence. Particular trainers abilities as a trainer mm-hmm . So when I talk to a client and they go, you know, they're asking me, can I help them? What's the look of the programmer, you know, we're, we're discussing their goals in dog ownership. They're getting nothing, but. An absolute confirmation from me that if I take them on as a client, I know that we can get to their goals no matter what, if they follow my lead mm-hmm , if they, you know, invest their time and energy in the ways that we need them to, they will have the outcome that they're looking for. And the only thing that will stand in between that and the outcome being not. Uh, perfection. Yeah. But a happy life with their dog. Yeah. And the, and honesty from their trainer. And the only thing that's standing in between that, that is, you know, them jumping on board. Well, if I'm saying pay as you go, people's habits are, I'm gonna take it. You know, this week I'm gonna give myself a break mm-hmm and we're not gonna do anything. And next week I might decide to restart. And that's just not how you get an outcome that you're you're desiring. So, gosh, what was the original question? I don't know. that was really good. You gotta price your. And take yourself seriously, if you want your clients to. And so that's what creates, oh, I remember a long term client. They take you seriously. They see the results that they want because they've taken you seriously because they bought in at a, and it matters. Mm-hmm . If you're asking them to spend thousands versus hundreds, they're going to put the effort in and we all know as dog trainers, that's how you get results. Is the client. Listening to your direction and following through on the actions that you've asked them to do with their dogs. So, you know, they trust you, they believe you, and they love you because they get they've gotten what they've asked for. And if you are cutting them slack, they're gonna cut the slack even more. Yeah. Yeah. And that also comes back to pricing. If I spent, if I spent top dollar on something, I take care of it. Mm-hmm and I'm sure you guys do too. So it really makes a lot of sense to. But so it's a, it's a mutual, like feedback loop of investing in you, investing in me, investing in you, investing in me. And that is something that can, you can go the long haul and people have more money than we realize. And Kristen, you cut in anytime. Cause you know, I'm a talker. No, no, no, no. This is actually you're leading into what I was about to say next. So this goes really good. What you're about to say. So I, you know, the. Excuse of, I don't have, it's not in the budget or I don't have it. And obviously there are going to be people that you will outprice. Yeah, that's fine. It's not gate keeping by the way. No, there's people that you can afford you and there's people that just don't see the value in it or not ready, or it's just not what they're looking for. You have to be willing to say goodbye to them. Mm-hmm in order to say hello to the people that you are gonna be a better fit for you as a client. That is fine. You will, you cannot. You know, serve everyone in your community. It's physically impossible. But as far as their personal money, it's really not for you to understand nor to believe. I was just gonna fucking say that it's, it's none of your fucking business, what they spend their money on. Yeah. So like worrying, am I charging too much? And is that, you know, this is a, a family with kids and they need the money for something else it's not for you to worry about. Yeah. And if you really took a step back. And I mean that genuinely, like do not take other people's problems on as your own. Yeah. Cause what people spend money on, you know, absurd things. I'm wearing a vintage shirt, the cars. It's so cool. Right? I like that shirt. I don't even wanna tell you how much this car. I bought it in Brooklyn. Jesus. This is like an old, it's a vintage. You spent like two 50 on that we don't need to discuss, but it's ridiculous. Right. But like someone would look, somebody else might look at this shirt and be like, I would never in my life, first of all, don't care. And then secondly, why would you spend your money on that? Well, that's the choice I made everybody does that. Yeah. The price of their TVs, the prices we pay for. Tattoo experiences tattoos. Oh my gosh. I went to this crappy beach. That's nearby where we live. It's not, it's actually a great beach, but it's, you know, it's not, it's nothing fancy got an Airbnb that wasn't even on beach on the beach front view that Airbnb costs like $1,100 for four days. So over the course of their life, What they're spending their money on isn't for you to decide number one. And if you're providing a very valuable service, you're giving them something. And I remind my clients of this. We're investing in something that you use for the long term. So it's not just a short term investment of we're working together for a year. This is the next 15 years of your dog's life is gonna be beneficial from this experience. So clear it out, all the cobwebs, you guys, in your head, around your opposition, to other people spending money on you, because you don't think you're worthy of X, Y, Z. Yeah. Do you think that's like a mindset thing? It's a hundred percent. It is. It's a, it's a money mindset thing. And it's also just like, of knowing your worth, like the value of who you are as a trainer and if you've been in the industry for, so, I mean, you know, obviously if I'm talking to somebody who's, I just decided today I'm gonna be a dog trainer. Yeah. I watch TV and I'm like, I'm gonna be a, like a cable doc trainer, like Caesar Milan or something. I'm probably get sued for saying that, whatever, you know, maybe, maybe there's something to consider about gaining some experience. Yeah, exactly. The truth is that Kristen and I see a lot of trainers. Five six years in even two, three years in whatever, but they've had a significant amount of experience, a lot of skill set, a lot of success, and they are trying to talk us out. Why they are deserved of a proper pricing. Yeah. They're coming back and fighting you, right? Yeah. It's oh, I can't do it. Cuz where I live or oh my God. Well it's my niche. Clients can't do that or I do wanna be able to help more people with lower prices and it's you have to remember too. It's like the clients aren't. Just investing in you by you charging higher prices. You are also reminding yourself that you are investing into that person too as well. It's not just like you take their money and it's cool. I'm gonna train your dog to do a few things. You're actually investing your own time, but also your own emotional energy. And you're also like whatever education experience you have too. It's like a dog miss school. you have to invest in yourself because we highly invest back into you. You know what I mean? Like we are consistently going out seeking information, spending$10,000 on a fucking data report. wow. Yeah. Like shit like that, but also, you know, it's, it's a, it's a mutual investment back and forth, and that's where money gets exchanged. And I feel like so many people, but I think now though, you know, this is really interesting over the last couple years, like I got into coaching, like what? 2016, Hey, Hey dog business. I see you listening and nodding your head. Do me a hot favor. If you are loving this episode and are feeling like, fuck, I need to talk to Kristen or the dog BI school team, do yourself and your business. A huge favor. Go do dog bid school.com/work with us. This way, you can see what we're all about. Fill out in a simple application and get direct line to my calendar. Yeah. Like even my assistant really doesn't get access to my calendar. That way we can shoot the shit. See what's working in your dog business, what's not working. And then make your dog business goals into a fucking reality and plan. Go to dog school.com/work with us. See you. Dog trainers and pet business owners are getting a little bit more comfortable around like the money talk versus, oh my God, we gotta be cheap. I mean, there's always gonna be a subset of people that just decide to be cheap. Like whatever, God bless them, you know, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. But like now I'm like finally seeing, and this is actually another thing I wanna talk about. I don't know if we're gonna talk about it in this episode, but maybe we are, but people are finally like taking the whole money thing seriously, but now it's like this super heavy focus on just fucking money and it's okay. Like it's just too, they're intense. They're almost like to the money now. Yeah. Which is like, It's a sharp turn that happens. It's a sharp turn. And now that I'm seeing in the market, it's like for other coaches and this is not a hit on other coaches. It's now you're all be now you're all being sold on like the six and seven figure business. And it's cool. You can definitely have a six and seven figure figure business. That's fucking cool. I want you to have that, but also too. It's you're not gonna do it to sell your soul at the same time. So I don't know. It's a weird, it's a weird space. I feel like now it's like we were here and like, like y'all, can't see me right now, but we were here to like, where it's like, oh, you know, you got into training dogs to help people and help the dogs. And then you started making momentum and now it's, there's this super heavy money, money, money. Yeah. Heavy focus on money, money, money. Well, I mean, it's a hard one, you know, one of the things that I thought about when you just were talking were just because you're running a seven figure business does not mean you're taking home seven figures too, so, oh yeah, exactly. depending on how you're you can have a very tightly run ship yeah. And have greater take home than a larger organization that has a lot more overhead. Exactly. so that's something to consider, like just those benchmarks alone don't necessarily you have to create benchmarks that are much different. Yeah. Do you wanna own your home? Do you wanna have your mortgage paid off? Mm-hmm like literally own the land that you live on. Do you want to, you know, how many clients are appropriate for you or do you wanna get to a place where you don't take clients anymore? Yeah. Yeah. And this is when I was saying earlier, are you looking at the long term view? You know, are you trying to make an impact internationally or are you wanting to be like a local. like safeguard in the community and have this deep community involvement, and then you're gonna shape your business around those different things. And then what, what is financial stability for you? I don't think many people can answer. Yeah. What their number is like how much money do you need to make in your life in a month, in a year, in a day or over the course of your lifetime. And are you, are you starting to work on that large? Sorry. It's okay. That longer term view of like investment in your retirement, right? Or. Even beyond that, a lifestyle that you don't need to retire from, actually. Yeah, fuck. Yes, exactly. Me and Maggie go back and forth. That's like the hill I die on as I'm always stressed out about my retirement, because like I come back from old school, you know, like my parents and stuff like that. And coming from corporate, I'm always like retirement and she's dumb fucking bitch. We're setting it up. So we don't technically have to quote unquote retire. You know what I mean? And that's what everyone should be doing. Yeah, exactly. If you're, I mean everyone in their life, but I. Especially if you're an entrepreneur, you're not gonna be happy, closing up shop. Yeah. Your brain doesn't allow that. So you'll need something. Why not have money that returns to you in like longevity in, in the way that you're. But again, it starts with pricing now. So a small thing you can all do is make sure that you're appropriately pricing. If you need to reach out to a coach, reach out to grassroots and ha and talk to them, what should my pricing be at? Where should my programs be at mm-hmm mm-hmm because it's the little bit, it's a little groundwork you do now that pays you way down the. and if, when I speak to dog business, business owners or business owners in general, yeah. Even if I'm speaking to somebody that owns, you know, an exercise. Coach that actually, I speak to all the time. Once you set yourself low, it gets really hard. You're like, okay, well, I can justify 10 to more dollars for a session or something like that, whatever, you know, or we can bump it a little or I can't bump till January, you start, it gets so much more complicated. Don't so when you are looking at this, this is actually, and I hope I, you okay. I'm like, go ahead, get a coach. Talk to them about your program. Get your ducks in a. And dive into the deep end, do not try to Wade through all the shit to get there and waste years and years and years trying to catch up with the market, which is if you are low, if you're like, yeah, you know, this really spoke to me. My prices are low. I'm not really seeing the return. I wish I was. I don't know where I'm going financially. In the future, you need to be working with somebody with someone that has your long term money objectives in mind. And then you need to jump in, do not try to inch. I used to charge a dollar. Now I charge two. Yeah. Now I charge three. Now we're, everybody's slapped you. We you're gone. I don't care. Oh, you're doing $3 now. We're already at, you know, six times, 20 times that because you're waiting around at three and the fear is a client's gonna leave me and guess what? Mm-hmm . They will. They're gonna, yeah, they will say goodbye to them. That's okay. A client might bully me, guess what? You have to learn to deal with this. When we raised our boarding in daycare prices and we, we really were behind the ball, I'm assuming triple right. We doubled it. But I was, I was, I remember that conversation that night when we were at your place in Charlotte, you guys, and I was really low in our daycare and boarding side of the business. I had just kind of let it, I'm a human too, is what I'm about to say. I let it go for years. We didn't give the attention there that we needed. And you know, all of a sudden it was like a glaring issue of, oh no, I have let this go. And so we doubled our prices and some people got really upset and I, and I get it, although it's just not, they're not like if you think about when you first thought, okay, I'm gonna back it up to you. You got the news that businesses had to close for the pandemic. Think about that moment where you were like, Oh, my God. Like I might not. What does this mean for me in my future? What is everything about to change? I think I don't care who you are. If you owned a business at that time, you a question mark just popped into your head. Oh yeah. At the very minimum, if not extraordinary anxiety about it. Yeah. the future. Guess who you didn't think about in that exact moment, that client, that bitched at you about doubling your boarding prices? Yeah. That's not the person that was sitting across the table from you going, are we gonna be able. Pay the mortgage, right? Yeah. Or do we need to defer our, this or that? So if you can, if we can all just grasp that moment and go, oh, this is what matters. My family. You know the sustainability of my business, because I have these long term. If you have no long term view, you're not gonna create sustainable choices right now. So let let go of the clients that can't, that don't, you know, can't jump on board. The ones that are supposed to stay with you will stay and then more will come. You'll clear the. Space. Yeah. For better clients at the rates that you are meant to be paid. It's like that whole energetic shift of like, when you have one low paying client, sometimes they take the mental space up of 10, like of 10 actions. They do. Yeah. And then the moment you clear them out. Two or three really high quality clients come in. Yeah. It's like that whole cycle, it happens. Like we, like you said, we're human we're business owners. Like we see that in grassroots there's people that, you know, have done that you we've seen it in the dog training businesses. We've seen it in like my husband's business. Like that actually just literally happened. He had a client that wasn't a year long program. And they started, and this is actually kind of segue into what we were talking about right before we hopped on, like they had a contract and because it's a higher end program, there's payments being made on it and they just ghosted and, but they wanted so much, like they ghosted on their payments, but they kept reaching out and asking for more and more and more and more and more, and like getting sessions set up cuz he doesn't do board trains anymore. And he's no, I'm not doing that. And it was just, it was just such an energetic. Time fuck in his head. And I was like, you know what, bro? I'm like, homeboy, I'm like, I'm gonna go into your email. I'm gonna fucking fire them for you. Yeah. And he was like, no, no, no. But I, I, I wanna make that, you know, payment because I wanna do this or I wanna have this, you know, I'm like, trust me on this fucking fire them. Two days ago, three brand new fucking clients came in, not a problem. That's exactly right. And so it doesn't matter. And it, any service industry, this is what you need to really wrap your head around. Chris is talking. Dog training. It could be about any service offered. Yeah. Because you'll have people that wanna work the systems. And that's what I was talking to my friend about earlier today, it was a similar thing and he's in a different service type industry, but they want to manipulate the system, work around your, and try to negotiate against you. And if you can't hold your ground, It really depresses and depletes you. And that's what Kristen's saying here. And you end up not having enough in that respect to the sustainability, not having enough to give to the people that really deserve it. Your, your top tier, your favorite five clients, they should be getting every bit of you. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You shouldn't be wasting your time on people that are like. Just like time, like literally like the energy vampires, your time is towards your higher value clients that are like, hell yeah, I wanna do this. The people that, you know, like for dog trainers or dog walkers, they're like, yeah, let's go fucking paddle boarding. Let's go do an Airbnb. Let's go do a swim day. Versus the people are like, well, why don't I do this with my dog? And then their emergency becomes your emergency all of a sudden on a fucking Saturday night, but they're not fucking paying you for that. Right. yeah, no, it's it's really and setting a tone and all of this is it's setting a tone. You, if you open the door for that, The energy vampire aspect. And if you're doing it in your business, you're probably doing it in the rest of your life too. So consider that. Yeah. That's so true where this is usually anything that shows up in sales is what I love about sales shows up everywhere. Oh yeah, absolutely. Sorry. I just took a sip of water and it sounded my sun. It all funky there. This is really good. Well, also too, can we talk, I've talked about ADLA ad Lido. Ah, I've also talked before about the ethics behind training more. And it's really interesting that you talked about that real or tick talk. You don't even know who it is. Like I've seen that lately. It's is there ethics in charging more for dog training? What are the ethics? Are you keeping away certain, you know, certain people from getting your service that might need your services? My thought process rather since is what we hold to a higher standard of our students is. Get the people get the higher quote, not necessarily high, just because somebody doesn't have Mon, I wanna say this very clear, just because somebody doesn't have money. Doesn't mean they're a good person. You know what I mean? Get the higher end clients that are willing to pay that investment. Like whether it's like a 5k program, 10 K program, 20 K program. And then if you want to give back to your community, cuz you do have the time and energy with them. That way you can serve people in another capacity. Right? So if it's starting a non-profit, I'm not saying it was start a non fucking profit, but like you can still serve people. But I think a lot of people get really tied up in the ethics of charging more is one ethics. Cause they feel like they're cutting a certain because they've been, I mean, honestly, cuz they've been broken. They're like I'm a, I've been a broke person and I don't want to. I know when I just need. Exactly. Yeah. And if that really is your pure, if, if it's like a pure of heart scenario like that, then I love what Kristen's talking about, where you can balance because you have the time, energy and resources to do so there's so many cool things you guys could be doing, like where you have a super high end program, but also that person's part of that person's tuition goes to a grant based thing where you get somebody else gets into a high end thing, because yeah, of that, we've talked about that before, where. Like, I'm not a breeder, but if I was a breeder, I would like breed dogs that were really high end dogs. But then I would also have it be like, almost like that Tom's shoe thing where it's like for every, whatever. Yeah. We take a dog from rescue and train and home. It. And then that provides the resources for that. So you build that into your company, however you want. Can't be broke to do that. You can't be broke. No. Yeah. So if you're giving away your services for free or like for you just won't have the energy to give back yeah. The way that you need to. Yeah. And it's not really boxing out people as much as you think when they're getting the quality. Oh, that was the ethics part that I wanted to say to you. Yeah. So what I've found is I've had people go, what makes you think you can charge that, that are dog trainers. And I would go back and say to them, my exact answer always is what makes you think that you can't. It's not really about what makes it think that I can it's that the other trainers have some sort of mindset that they can't, but here's the danger zone. The danger zone is not the person that is pure of heart. That is, I grew up poor as I did. Emily grew up poor, and therefore I want people to have resources that wouldn't naturally those pure of heart people. You know who you are, you're doing good, the danger zone, and you're gonna figure out how to help while also, and hopefully both, you're gonna hopefully figure out both sides of this, how to help everyone that you want to in a kinda open space for that. And then open space for the sustainability of your family and future of your. Uh, the middle ground people y'all scare me. So those are people that are like, I don't want to charge more. And this is the secret. And I'm gonna talk to you about some dark shit. Is that okay? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited actually to hear about this. This is the evil, the middle ground people are like, I don't want to charge more because I don't wanna be required to do more. I don't wanna expectation around my outcome and I don't want people to look too closely at what I'm doing behind closed doors and we all. Who those trainers are not to name anyone. I'm not saying that, but the, that is a very nefarious issue that exists in our industry of board and trained trainers. They wanna take a dog in, maybe do one or two lessons. They hate the people. They can't stand their burnt out. It's you even like this, they get results in whatever manner they get it. Sort of, but they're charging just enough to make it good for them, but just little enough that a person can say, I didn't really get what I wanted, but I'm, it's not worth the hassle of going back and complaining over that two grand or whatever it was. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah. And they've figured it out and I'm telling you it's rooted in evil. you're to say I'm bringing the light. It is rooted in evil because they are taking money. Yeah. Just to the point of. No return. They're like right on the edge. Yeah. They're edging that line where I can take your money, not do the work and potentially be neglectful in some areas mm-hmm for the dog and for definitely for the client. Yeah. But for the dog too. And we know those dog trainers that I've heard trainers brag about how little they can do. And not, not to make a dog hap like a happy little happy little lucky dog. And look, we, the training is so fluid. We're doing very like the session is just the day with me. I love that. Yeah, no, I mean like the trainers are like, I barely get the dog out. Yeah. I did one recall and, you know, beat Bob boob. I started, I start up, I've slapped the collar on him two days before I went home, whatever. And they're like, look, and I can still get the dog to do this. And then. Throwing it back to the owner. They're giving a couple lessons. Yeah. They're putting the blame back on the owner. They're taking the owner's two grand. It's just enough to get by. Yeah. Without complaint, because the tr you leave the client in a state of confusion where they're like, did I get value? Is it just me? Am I the dummy? They're like gaslighting by price. Yeah. Gaslighting by. Yeah. I'm telling you and talk those motherfuckers. That's the danger zone. Not the pure of. that want to, you know, be a charitable and you know, if you are really in this for charity, Ooh. I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this. Go ahead, go be in it for charity. Start a non-profit you could still pay yourself. I know that many people would've disagree with me. Maybe even Maggie. No, you get paid for, you have to pay yourself for fucking non-profit. Yeah. You no, I mean, you do. That's what I'm saying. Like you can go, I've spoke to people who have run non-profits and they, and they're all grant based and donation based and stuff, and they make a good living off of it. If you wanna do that, be that person pure part go. Yeah. If you wanna be a part of a capitalist society. Is what owning a business. Yeah. It's just the way it is. Then you have to get real with your money. And if you wanna be a nefarious motherfucker. Yeah. Sorry. It was cus really, those are the people that are gonna say I'm gonna charge only a couple grand and then they're gonna look you dead in the eye and go, and they have been the ones that have said this to me. Well, makes you think you deserve. To charge more. And those people are saying that because they will not hold themselves. So that's an unethical place to be in cuz they don't want anyone to look behind the closed doors of what they're doing in their homes with the dogs or wherever they work. Well, truth bomb. Yeah. Like we're surrounded by the six Mike. Sarah, can we just drop 'em all. no, that's fucking true because those people and we've seen those people, you know, the major. Fortunately, it's a very small, oh, is it very small segment? Depends on who you surround yourself with. If you do surround yourself with those types of people, you gotta kind of look at yourself and take an honest, an honest inventory of that. Then you see, like you said, like the people that are pure of heart, those are the people that we work with at dog with school. And those people, like they care so much about the results of the dog. You know what I mean? Like they are literally sacrificing themselves. The moment they wake up, the moment they're fucking feet hit the floor arts. The moment they go to bed, they are working the dog. They are working, getting training the dog, making sure that dog is fucking polished. Beautiful before it comes home. It's now. Yeah. Every for it, every inch of the dog is covered. Yeah. Does it have a little scratch on its leg? Yeah, its snail break. There's a policy around how we handle it. We get it to the vet. If it's like fucking looks sideways. Yeah. It's a lot that goes into these. I always say that, you know, we got X amount of dogs in the building, 70 dogs in the building. There's 70 beating hearts in the building. That's what I say to my staff. 70 souls. yeah. So you it's, you it's really is a lot of work. Yeah. If you wanna do it right. And you wanna give the care that's provi that's required. Yeah. So you better charge for it, or you're going to find yourself. Becoming one of those trainers that I spoke of where you, I think a lot, many of those people maybe started out pure of heart and evil. Got em. That to sound like a damn, no, I've seen the, I haven't called my book or something, but no, no, no, no. I've seen like the trans I've seen it. Like I've actually seen the transition of it and it's. It's really sad. It's really fucking sad. And that's also why, you know, you need to have somebody like on your side, like dog to school, like we call that shit out pretty fucking fast. Like we sniff out. It's good to have accountability. Yeah. It's really good to have accountability anyway. And that was fucking awesome. Yeah, that was good. Yay. Yay. So anyway, y'all price yourself above everybody else know bad about it. Everybody we'll talk to you soon.