In this episode of Mind Your Own Dog Business, Kristen Lee sits down with Dog Biz School founder and 20-year dog training veteran Maggie Christina on what it takes to be a damn good facilitator and educator to your dog-owning clients. Sure, you're a great freaking dog trainer with the best hands-on dog training skills and handling; but educational systems are you using as a dog trainer to transfer that knowledge to the dogs' owners.
We've all heard it before:
"It's not about training the dog, but training the people". But what does that mean as a dog trainer? And how do you know if you're making an impact on your client's life when it comes to skill transfer.
What you'll learn in this episode:
Links:
Check out more episodes of Mind Your Own Dog Business
Connect with Kristen & The Dog Biz School Team
Join Our FB Group For Dog Biz Owners: https://www.facebook.com/groups/petdogbizowners
Online: www.dogbizschool.com
Instagram: @dogwalkercoach
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DogBizSchool
In this episode of Mind Your Own Dog Business, Kristen Lee sits down with Dog Biz School founder and 20-year dog training veteran Maggie Christina on what it takes to be a damn good facilitator and educator to your dog-owning clients. Sure, you're a great freaking dog trainer with the best hands-on dog training skills and handling; but educational systems are you using as a dog trainer to transfer that knowledge to the dogs' owners.
We've all heard it before:
"It's not about training the dog, but training the people". But what does that mean as a dog trainer? And how do you know if you're making an impact on your client's life when it comes to skill transfer.
What you'll learn in this episode:
Links:
Check out more episodes of Mind Your Own Dog Business
Connect with Kristen & The Dog Biz School Team
Join Our FB Group For Dog Biz Owners: https://www.facebook.com/groups/petdogbizowners
Online: www.dogbizschool.com
Instagram: @dogwalkercoach
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DogBizSchool
You're listening to the mind, your own dog business podcast. I'm your host, a leading expert in dog business strategy. Kristen Lee guys get ready for your journey, your journey to cutting edge marketing and sales, creating a standout kick ass dog business grant, along with mastering your mindset. That's going to smash. All this glass ceilings that have been holding you back and catapult your dog was this to the next level. With actionable steps, you can take right away. We're going to empower you. We're going to grow you as you step into your authentic self. Not only as a dog trainer, dog Walker, or what ever slice the pet industry, you find yourself in. But as that bad-ass entrepreneur, my mission is to disrupt the current norm. Cut through the noise, cut through the bullshit and empower the incredible women of the dog business industry to step into the spotlight. Reclaim control and transform not only their businesses, but their lives. It's real. It's raw. It's uncensored. And it's what this dog business industry needs. Let's do this guys. Hey, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of mind, your own mother fucking dog biz podcast. The only dog that is podcasts in the pet industry that keeps it real. That keeps it raw and it keeps it uncensored. As book. Oh, super excited to have another guest. Oh my God. It's been guests after guests, after guests, after guests here on my drone dog Bez. And today I have the one, the only, the incredible, the all seeing eye of the Pepins industry. Maggie. Hello. Wow. I'm like, welcome back. Welcome back. I'm excited to be here, especially for this topic in particular, because it's my original passion, if you will, with working. Yeah. It is really between working with the dogs and the people when I've always been super into like, yeah, cool. I love training the dogs and it's definitely an art and I've always gone for like getting, you know, becoming a better and better trainer. But at the same time, like I get so good at certain things and be like, Oh, I have to find a way to like, show this to people and really get my owners to understand and, you know, reach that like pet person. And, uh, it's, it's the ultimate, like when for dog trainer, I think right. Is not just getting in and working with the dog, but like seeing those aha moments and seeing that progress between the dog and the person which happens sometimes. And then other times there's, you know, a lot of us. That kind of gets stuck in the muck, so to speak on trying to, you know, get all of the skills and stuff transitioned over to the people. So it's a good topic and it's the most important one. Really? Yeah. So we're going to talk today about, on this episode is the art of teaching pet owners. What? So this is for the ones, this is for the people that sometimes you don't struggle with training the dog, right? You might be a dog magician, but what starts to happen and something that Maggie SUVs Maggie has seen over the years. Decades actually is really fine tuning and creating that almost artful craft of having those educational systems with the dog owner. Right? Because at the end of the day, the dog, the dog goes home on its owner. And the owner has to understand the training systems and getting all that organized and everything like that because we see so many incredible dog trainers not have the skill really. Like systematically transferred to the actual pet owner. So what we're going to talk about today is the art of teaching the pet owners. So you guys didn't know. Back in the day, back in Maggie's day, she's in her rocking chair right now on her front porch with a cane and a cigarette and a cup of coffee back in her day. She still way back, I'll tell you a story way back, go way back, but back in her day, And still today, she is an amazing pet dog trainer. And I think what makes it more incredible too, is the systems she uses that breaks it down to the point of where even I could fucking train my cat. So it's incredible. Maggie, do you talk a little bit about your experience as a dog trainer? Because a lot of people just know you as a pet business coach, but more on that to come later, by the way guys. Oh, more on that to come later. Oh, I know you just said the, the dirty words, dirty word, like now. Uh, yeah. Well look, I, my, my history goes back a long time, uh, is starting to helping teach group classes way when I way back when I was 12, uh, I'm technically a school dropout because I jumped on board. My dog. Training career so early. And by the time I was 18, 19, I was helping Mike run a mild buddy mentor his name's Mike Thorpe. For those of you guys don't know Mikey, uh, he, I kind of fell into his lap, so to speak at his facility and he was operating a 30 to 40 dog facility and he was doing a lot of work trainings and he was incredible at the time. He was like, kind of top-notch and. We, uh, I learned how to, how to do phenomenal soundboard and trains just from my very foundation all those years ago. So I spent a lot of time early twenties really delving into, okay, how do I then take this all time? This amazing stuff that I've learned? Um, cause I trained like 125 Ford and train dogs my first year, uh, of apprenticeship under him. And it changed everything for me. And so I was like, so eager to really. Break ground on like showing everybody else that, uh, I just got completely wrapped into the idea of like, how do you get really good at teaching the people? You might have a really amazing way of working with dogs, but if you can't break it down and replicate. That progress with other people, it kind of gets lost. Right. It doesn't matter how good you are. The whole purpose is to kind of pay it forward. So, yeah, I've been geeking out, literally my entire career about that golden question of if it's not really about training the dogs at the end of the day, it's about training the people. Uh, what does that look like and what are the steps to actually. Do it, you know, I think that things like, uh, D you know, walking dogs on leash teaching Hill, it's the number one area for dog trainers that across the board people go, Oh, people struggle with it nonstop. And it's all owner compliance and it's like, Is it, or is it a little bit of both, you know, is it that we just are not very good at teaching it because we say, you know, it's all about training the dogs, but it's about training the people, but we don't really know how to invest the time to learn about the people and to train the people. So that kind of starts with like principle number one in a way is. At first, the first step guys is to becoming like a really good facilitator is getting to know your actual audience, getting to know the owners. Right. We have a lot of times where we'll talk negatively almost about people because they're so busy. It's like, Oh, they never do anything, but we rarely stop to think about, well, Am I making things easier to achieve well, how, how is it that they run their schedule? Oh my God, they're working 70 hours a week and it's a single parent. She's got three kids and Oh my God, that must be really stressful. Maybe I need to shift how I'm looking at this. And so, you know, it's like really understanding your audience comes first and then being able to craft really cool experiences for them, but then also be able to match it with like actual dog training systems that make sense to them. And I've got a. Million examples there in my back pocket too, but I don't want to, I don't want to run the conversation all over the board. There is crystal Lake. I know, I know. I know how you can go with that. So can you explain to the listeners, because we do have a lot of pack walkers and dog walkers, and we do have a really good chunk of dog trainers on this. The difference between facilitating a training relationship with a dog owner versus training slash teaching a dog owner. Yeah. So it's easy enough to kind of go in and talk at people, right? Like, you know, even this is kind of, we're part of the reason why we've been making fun of, and are uncomfortable with the words dog, business coach these days, because there's so many people that have gotten it. There was one other person when we first started grassroots. Right. One other person that was actively working as a dog business consultant. Um, we're both very legitimate people, but now, um, everybody's calling it, you know, or it's, um, shit, I forgot where I was going with that one. It's okay. I actually lost my train of thought on that one. It's okay. That my listeners are used to having the train of thought gone. Right guys. So we're good. I know, I know sometimes it fucking happens even with me still, still to this day. Um, but, but here's the thing you want to be able to have like a simple breakdown and not just talk at people. We need to be able to go in and help guide and direct and create an experience where people are more likely to retain information. Um, that's where I was going with that. So like we talk shit about. You know, we don't like the word stock business coach anymore. And the reason why is because most people that think that they want to become a business coach or just going out and telling people what to do. That's one way of stepping into leadership. It's not very effective. So when you're thinking about stepping in front of people to start to educate them, you have to think about things like, okay, what is. What is the course of an hour layout look like for good facilitation? Well, you got to have like, you know, five minute warmup, you got to kind of introduce the thing. Um, you need to spend a little bit of time talking about some of the stuff that they can expect. Then you need to have them do a little bit of an exercise and then stop and do a debrief before you move on into the next topic. If you understand that core principle, you can go, okay, well, I can, you know, spend time doing three of those. And an hour, three exercise in an hour, boom, there's my group class. And it just knowing how to organize curriculum and organize what you're teaching. And it is just as important as the actual stuff you're teaching as the actual information, right. Because anybody can pull stuff out of kind of a textbook and just recite and tell people things. Um, so that's part of it. Facilitation is beyond just an instructor. You're not just talking at people, you're actually, you know, kind of creating a flow to what you're teaching and how you're teaching it. Um, and of course, what you're teaching obviously is also really critical too. So, and I'd actually love to kind of delve into a little bit of the training stuff. Cause I do believe, I do believe that it's not all about. Just knowing how to, you know, uh, curate curriculum curate, uh, uh, uh, kind of student experience, which is important, right? Putting on a good show. So to speak is important. You want to keep your people engaged, but the quality of the stuff you're teaching is also critical. So I think of the pet dogs, right? The pet dog owners, what do they need? I think a little tiny details in how we train, for example, how we teach the waiting at doorways. This use to grind my years. You guys. This used to absolutely grind my gears. So you guys are taught to teach the weights where the dog has to have the dog come up to the crate door, the door, the gate, or whatever, and you tell the dog to sit and then he asked the dog to wait, or you say, wait, and then sit. But you're adding in that set. And all that is doing is it's pressurizing the dog. It's actually kind of like creating that, um, Like, you know, as soon as they kind of come out of that position, they're going to come, you know, flooring out, running out of the doorway, all that good stuff. So we actually don't want that in pet dogs, right? Our owners want a dog that's more chilled. So the difference is like, what we teach is a weight means don't cross this threshold. You can burn off energy and steam by kind of wandering around in the back. And that leaves less work to the owner. Therefore, the result is more achievable. And the end result for the dog is they're actually more chilled out and more in alignment with what the owner goal is to begin with. Right? So you're getting like this triple whammy effect of it, a marked improvement in everything. Just based on how you tweak what you're teaching. So there's a lot of little examples like that in what we teach too, that can make things a lot more achievable and easier for owners that do struggle with not having a lot of time. And they might have a dog that's like super weird because it's been rehomed three times and they've heard that story over and over again, that they're terrible people. If they don't adopt a dog. Right. So everybody loves the job adopting the, uh, the headcase, not everyone, but some people, um, you know, so, so we, we need really good, effective ways that make sense for how people are living with dogs today. Legit. Well, one thing I hear a lot of, since we've been working with documents for a really long time is the whole thing. And this is where I hear this. A lot of actually, when I speak to people on the phone is dog trainers feel a little bit burnt out on like repeating the wheel, repeating the wheel. It's like every dog training program, they have somebody in it's like they're consistently repeating the wheel or Groundhog day of the information of the basics, the foundations they're trying to get them in. Right. Yeah, and this is where I start. If somebody said that what you're describing to me sounds like what I call the broken record kind of impact where it's like, okay, you've taught it so many times. You've got a little bit of this process. Couple of things can happen. Number one, sometimes the way that we think about things or tweak things or improve things, we kind of get stuck into the rut of just doing it the way that we're. Used to doing it. Um, and the second thing is even when it is, you know, let's say everything's perfect and there's no more improvements you can make. Um, you know, being able to actually move the way you're teaching people in an upward motion, making some of that stuff more. Or, uh, interactive, like you always send people handouts at the end of group classes, for example. Right. But we don't have interactive community, like, you know, education spot and digital Lala land where we can actually connect with them and do that stuff first. And then when we go get together for that class, we're doing like super top-end amazing, like adventure type stuff. It's like putting them in the driver's seat of what they actually want to be out doing with their dogs that creates and cultivates a totally different level of it. Experience, and then you can break down further and go, okay. When I do meet with them, they're at a slightly advanced level. So now I'm going to run, you know, this game, this game and this activity and do it in that, in that flow kind of progression that I've taught for a long time and continue teaching because it works really well. So that flow is kind of what I was describing to you guys earlier on was how you can set up like an hour long activity, for example, um, And similarly, you can do micro activities that are like 15 minutes long. And, um, then there's ways of setting up flows two entire days so that you can actually do things with like, uh, Um, uh, more focused like retreats and work experiences, which is a whole different, like, if you want to go do graduate level education, come talk to us about coordinating a client retreat because that stuff is a game changer, not just for your business, but for your actual clients, like, and what they're going to experience with you and your business. Total game changer. Yeah. And one thing we want to make very clear too, before you go off and run off and create a retreat, just because we told you so from the podcast and then yell at us when it doesn't work or you have a cluster fuck meltdown over it. Cause we've had that happen. And it's totally cool. I know you guys get all excited and it's all good stuff and you want to implement. If you're like me, you want to go take the friggin boat and go and dig it in a hole and sit on it for a little bit. But if you do want to learn how to do immersive retreats for dog owners, it is imperative that you connect with us just because we've seen it go wrong so many times. And we also want to make it a really great experience for you and level up your business too. So we want to make sure you're not undercharging and you're able to structurally do this. And if you're ready for this too, as well. So just a little plug there to. Reach out to us as well. If you want to learn how to do retreats for dogs and their owners as well. Now, Maggie, Maggie, can you talk about something that I feel like needs to be talked about? Because not a lot of people talk about this, like dog training schools, mentors, legacy, dog trainers. As I like to say, we love our legacy dog trainers. We do, but can you talk about the big motherfucking elephant in the room, the human design element of dog training and behavior, like. Everybody and their mother can actually train a dog and, you know, help them go through behavioral mod. But what about bridging that gap to the owner, to the actual person that's paying you and they have to live the dog 24 seven. So can you talk about the human design element of dog training and also incorporate a little bit too, because we have a lot of pet sitters and dog walkers on here too. How they can reach that in there too as well. Ooh. That's so really important question so much. I know. Well, there's different elements, right? To, to that whole picture. There's understanding your niche beyond I work with dogs. My niece has a dog. That's not an issue, like really getting into the mind and heart of the people that you're serving, you know, understanding again, like learning how to drop the, um, that, that kind of charge we have against all owners for being busy, you know, as a trainer. And it's like, Whoa, Whoa, being busy, isn't necessarily bad. That's something we need to learn how to be empathetic around. We need to learn like, uh, little things like, Oh my gosh, you, you don't take time for yourself. Like you're busy. Non-stop you know, of course you're. Feeling frustrated and behind the eight ball with your dog, like here, let me help you. Right. Rather than fucking, didn't do his lesson again, you know, this week, whatever. Okay. Is a lazy motherfucker. So, so learning to have real understanding around the lives that our clients are living is absolutely number one. Right? So there's that piece. The second piece is really, truly looking at, okay. Where can I make improvements? As a dog trainer in places that make sense for who I'm serving today. Another quick example there for training side would be teaching the dog, the heel position, teach a general heel position, not a competition level where the dog has to do all of the extra, you know, bits as far as like eye contact and wrenching their neck and all that stuff. And people, people don't need that. Right. Maybe like simple simplified or customized versions of how they're actually going to use it. I see a lot of dog trainers training and prepping client's dogs for stuff to the clients are never going to use. Right. And it's not that the people don't want to use the stuff it's if you approach them with stuff that they do want to use, they're going to be much more apt to use it. I know that sounds very simplified, but it's, it's the truth. We really do need to stop and reconsider, uh, what we're putting into our curriculum at times. For example. Um, and then the final step is, is really taking a very clear, deep dive look at, okay. Now, how am I structuring my model of education? Right? What you're educating around the textbook information is one thing. And then how you organize, um, and deliver and. You know, curate and experience around that education is, is that final and also very critical step. Um, you know, you focus on all three of those areas and you're going to have a much, much healthier, more connected, more committed kind of stable client learning environment. Fuck. Yeah. Well, can you also talk about like, when, just say somebody here is listening. Okay. We have. Uh, PAC Walker listening, or we have a dog Walker or even maybe a baby beginner dog trainer. And they're really struggling with making it stick to the owner. Now, I know it goes back to the whole broken record or repeating, you know, re kind of doing the wheel over and over. But to those that are really struggling with those conversations and those training elements, like, what would you tell them? Like, if they're, they, you know, they feel like they have a really solid program. They've gotten a lot of good results, 80% of all the dogs, walkway trains, but, you know, there's, it's that 20 to 30 or even 50, 50% of people that are just struggling with getting that element across to the owner too. Be, you know, have that really high end successful, you know, contract fulfilled. Like, can you talk a little bit about that? Like what would you say to them? Well, I feel like you might be like asking for a certain reason, but what comes to mind is you guys have to remember that there's always going to be a percentage of people, no matter how good of an instructor and no matter how bomb proof your program is, that are just not going to be, uh, Working at a level that you thought they were going to be for whatever reason. Right. And it's usually like 25 to 30%. So I think the key is learning to really focused on the remainder of those students. And they're oftentimes the ones that are a little bit more quiet in the background, you know, there's kind of plugging away at doing stuff and. Kind of building things to create and cultivate challenges to kind of further their skills. Um, I know I would kind of, you know, in a little bit of a different direction, but it just reminded me of that, that like, You know how most want to say bottom pool of people? You know, we get, it's very easy to get hung up on the lower end clientele. The people that are just not showing up or they have, they show up with all the excuses, um, or they're paying the butts or whatever, or they completely go see whatever the case is. And we wonder, we spent a lot of time and energy, like wondering why, and if you want to get really good at working with people and really bettering people, get good at, at working with like, So it was the people kind of in the middle and on the higher end of, um, their performance. Don't get stuck on the people that are underperforming. Yeah. Well, I think that's where it's anywhere in their business, where this shows up and what I hear, it shows up with a lot of like, even with our students, it's like, They'll get feedback on something they're not asking for feedback on from like a lower 2% of like prospective clients out there. And that one little piece of feedback or whatever it is from the bottom percent, like sends people into a tailspin. You know what I mean? Do you get what I'm saying? So it's like, Oh, it didn't work for this one person. Let's scrap it and do it all over. It's like, no, absolutely fucking not. Right, right. It's like the person that makes all the excuses is the one that's going to try to critique you and you gotta be. And here's, I mean, this is a completely different topic. This is more business. See advice, but it's still good advice. Know who your counsel is. Know who your council is. If you ever really are second guessing yourself about something, which we all go through, we all need a counsel, right. For our students, just about everybody in our students group, including us facilitators, really great counsel. Right. Um, but knowing your council is, I, I know who my, uh, council people are. They're usually like three to four people. So always go back to them. If you're in doubt, you definitely want to have a support system as a leader in general, whether you own a business or you're doing different types of leadership that help keep you in check, right? You should never be out, you know, like a fucking cult leader. Nobody, nobody can say anything to me. Ha right. So it's, it's healthy to have that, but when you find yourself triggered over something that somebody else says, and you're finding yourself second guessing, just go back to your fucking council super quick, be like group huddle, right. And that's not necessarily going to your click of girl drama stuff or boy drama stuff, and then dragging it all over Facebook. That doesn't count. They're not doing business checking and move on. Right. So that, that is a pitfall, uh, that I think both of us feel a lot of times with clients and actually a couple of people I'm thinking of just in the last couple of days with similar kind of feelings and experiences, because it is normal, right. It is pretty normal and it is that we get emotionally or energetically hung up. On the people that are not showing up, so don't get sidetracked. Yeah. You need to stop and help somebody. That's fine. But it can't be at the detriment of not serving the other, you know, 80% of super cool people that you get to work with. Yeah. I think it's also too, like, and I was just talking about this. Um, in one of the videos, I was just recording for dogmas, without borders, it's taking a strategic objective look without emotional thing. So it's like, okay, where else is this happening? What are the opportunities? Where's the threats? How can I use this as a, this weakness as an opportunity to level up or whatnot? Right? So if people, if you guys are listening, if you're finding yourself like. Oh, my God we're repeating wheel or whatnot, or you're really struggling with the aspect of the teaching thing. Don't use this as like a weakness uses this as an opportunity to learn and really level up because, you know, as we progress, like the fucking dog training industry, even the fucking five years, I'd been in it as like in actually like full-time in the business, like I've been doing business for a long time, but even in just the five years, like, I can't even imagine. Maggie, what you've seen over the decades, like how much everything's progressed on, on the dog owner ends, like dog training absolutely has progressed, but like on the drug owner and like, everything has changed even in the last two years has changed dramatically. That's right. That's absolutely right. I mean, that's the thing is the people that we're bringing into this old model of group classes and private lessons and board and trains and all that shit. Um, the, the people we're bringing on board are. Are completely different than they were 15, 20 years ago. Yeah. We're running the exact same models, exact same processes. Yes. The training styles are a little bit different from one business to the other, but they're all running the same models. The people models are exactly the same. And that's, that's where we're really having such a big breakdown. It's like, well, hold on. You know, Lee's training, for example, if we made it. Fit the needs of regular people and assuming most dogs have. Behavior, like I've already learned to pull into the leash. We need to have a system that fucking works for that situation, which is the majority of the situations. Right. And then we need to have a really good quality way of actually imparting that information and giving those experiences to clients in a way that they're actually going to retain that shit because it exists. That's what I used to do, you know, full time when I just had my dog training business. And ironically, one of the reasons that brought me into the realm of business coaching. Yeah. Do you think dog training classes, this is kind of off topic, but do you think the traditional structure of dog training classes and the next few years is going to basically become obsolete? Uh, absolutely. From the market's perspective, but people are going to still start there and graduate up to higher end, uh, Uh, programs, um, sorry. There's like a bee thing around me. I'm like, please don't say me. I can remember when we were filming in the bee was attacking us the entire time. I don't want it. No. What was I saying again? That's the second time it's happened on today's. Okay. I, you feel the group class format eventually is going to be obsolete. Yeah, no, yes. In that it's already obsolete because it doesn't fucking work in terms of effectiveness. It's already obsolete. It'll take a little bit of time for it to die out of the market completely because there's going to be. A string of gradually fading, older and older dog trainers and people that are still going to try to use that model to like, hold on for dear life. Um, but it's already slipped so much in the industry because things like board and trains and facilities and, uh, you know, other things that started to kind of take over. So as the digital footprint starts to really take hold over the coming years, it's it's gonna, yeah. Yeah. It's a dying breed. The people that are going to continue having them, the market will still kind of buy it from them. Um, but those people are never gonna quite do very well in the business. And yeah, and people always graduate up to, you know, better quality programs. Cause look, group classes are not lifestyle classes. Like they really, we need programs that help cultivate. The whole lifestyle and you can train the fucking dog, even get that shit done, but that's not the issue. Nine out of 10 times, the issue is, first of all, they need specific kind of train training. That fucking makes sense. It's better achievable so that they could, you know, get quicker results and get more committed. That's exactly what my clients did. Cause that shit just made sense to them. Um, you know, like, like I said, the little things like how we change the waiting at the doorway and some of the heel work and lots of other little things. Make sense to them. They're more likely to do it. Right. Uh, and that also means creating a language around pet parent education, which is very different than the language most dog trainers use. Even though we think we're talking pet language, we're really not. We're talking other dog trainer language, which is not the same thing. Yeah. How do you, how do you foresee this is, this is something I'm gonna throw you on the spot for. How do you see the big box corporate stores adjusting to this? Well, they're similar to my answer around the group classes. They'll continue having them because the bottom of the barrel consumer will continue buying them. Right. But what's going to happen. And it's already started to happen is you're going to see that be used as the same graduation into higher end services. You're going to see more. Boarding centers and daycare centers. And like, I would not be surprised that within the next five, between the next five to 10 years, for sure, either Petco or PetSmart is going to start offering a board and train program. Hm. I know people right now are thinking, Oh my God, but they'll never do what I do. They can never do it. Yeah. But they have, you guys all know that if somebody's pockets are better lines than yours, then you're, it doesn't matter. Right. People argue against business coaches too, in the industry right now, partially because it's like, well, marketing doesn't make you a better job trader. Then you're just ripping the market off. So now you have a whole bunch of really good dog trainers that are almost deliberately not effectively marketing themselves because it's not cool to therefore they're going to lose. They're going to lose the entire opportunity to capture that part of the mall market. So people are already throwing the money away over to the big box stores. Yeah. Well, I think too, as well, it's like, you have to think of it as your own personal disruption as well, especially when it comes to the human element side. And that's something that I want people to start thinking about as they take away from this. Like, you've heard it first here. I'm always going to be like you heard a first year, but because people usually do from grassroots and then it gets spread, but it's like, Think about it as a human design element of it, it's like that facilitated experience. What does it look like with that connection of the dog with the actual physical work of working with the dog and the owner too? So Maggie, I'm not that I'm going to throw this out there. I'm going to allow you to take the lead on this one. Do you want it, do you want to, do you want to tell them the secret about January to January secret? Um, I don't know. I don't know. Drum roll. I think we should say we should make them wait. Okay, cool. Sorry. I don't care. Do you, do you exciting though? I'm like, Oh God. Yeah. It's should we though? Why don't you give a taser, a taser. They don't tase them with it. Don't fucking shock them with it, but give them a taste. Give them a taste of what's to come with grassroots. But don't give them the whole, give them a little bit. Okay. Let me explain it like this. Let me explain it like this to you guys. Kirsten and I have literally more experienced than anybody else in the industry probably put together. For being honest, um, and actually implementing high-end programs with people with, you know, pet owners, we're talking$10,000 programs, $15,000 programs. Um, if you're starting on the lower end of our work around that kind of stuff, you're, you know, $5,500 programs, whatever. So here's what we also learned. And you guys know as well as we do very cautious about who you teach that to you, because you shouldn't be fucking charging that shit unless you're actually worth that. Right? Yep. Imposter syndrome guests sometimes go through the, you know, do the mindset stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. At the end of the day, oftentimes sometimes those feelings come up because we know there's still stuff we got to work on. So the teaser is. If you actually want to learn to become that valuable, that's what we're going to do. Ah, I thought you blanked out for a second. I was like, ah, ah, woo, nice. Learn how to actually be valuable enough to be one of those people to offer a$10,000 program package on your roster. Then you have the opportunity to learn that. Yeah. I mean, it's honestly, it's one of the things that's like, not everybody's should do that though. And not everybody's going to yeah, well, it's a whole ethical thing around it. Like certain people, like certain people should not be offering a 10 K program. It's not as helpful. Like if you don't have the chops and the program design and the human element and the support to do that, like. It's not like it's a gay $10,000. We don't care about them. We do hear about the money aspect, but like there's an ethical, like a professional, like ethics around being able to train a dog for time care. Like it has to be very few. And if you're doing it outside of a fucking, like, you know, educationally backed support system, then you are ripping off the market. Oh, yeah, nobody should do that. And you shouldn't fucking do that just because we're talking about it or because somebody did a free webinar once. Like it's you gotta be, yeah, you gotta be, you can't just be a good talk dog trainer. You gotta be a great dog trainer and then you gotta match your people skills, your people knowledge at least have the right. You know, beginning structure set into place because, but you know, the thing is, is the market's already fucking here and wanting that kind of shit. And it's a matter of the dog. World's getting their collective shit together and we're just fringe old grassroots. You know, we have amazing clients. We have a lot of people that are in different pockets, making a big difference. Because that's the grassroots style, you know, but, uh, at the same time, it's like, you know, most of the dog trainers that don't know about grassroots have no clue what's going on with the actual market. So easy to get sucked back into just focusing on the dog. Yeah. And you have, I know one confirm, amazing dog trainer. She's been on this podcast before. That's going to be helping you with that little secret. Oh, fucking mahogany yet. You guys, if you didn't already know, Hockney is officially in our leadership team. I'm so excited for that fucking bad-ass Turner man. Like who wouldn't want to have mahogany? When I, when we talk about mahogany guys and the way she has, she's the, I, I'm going to say this. I'm going to say this she's the best board and train trainer in the country right now. If not the world. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Well and the, the, God, I don't know. It just, there's so much, there's so much goodness to mahogany. Like she's incredibly, well-rounded, I'm real well-rounded as a trainer, but like has this way of pulling things together to just like create. Fucking masterpieces. And she's like the nicest person. I know, I swear to God and it's, you know, like what she does just it's like, like you said, that it's like, not everybody can replicate this, but you shouldn't replicate this by the way. But you know, the two three-year long lifelong contracts with clients to build that community, to build that, like that deep inner connection where, you know, it's like, it's not that you're doing a shitty job because you need two or three-year comp. Like contracts, but just because you have that intense desire and to work with the owner and everything like that. So it's like, no, cause I, I, this is what I see a lot of, and this is what I hear from a lot of legacy trainers. So dinosaur trainers again? No, no. Hey, in what I see from some Yaka trainers, it's like, you should be able to train a dog in the first couple of weeks. You shouldn't have a training program that's, you know, years longer to strangle on your market. It's like, you're not an effective dog trainer. It's like, no, I, I don't know. Can you talk on that too? That whole that's the whole, the dog's trained, my I'm done here mentality and it's like, yeah, the dog's trained, but that doesn't change the people's schedule. And that's the whole initial reason why they actually need you. So yeah. People we love, we do love you. And also to what's coming up for January. It's not just for people that are dog training right now, or dog trainers. It's for the majority of pet service professionals. So we're talking about dog walkers pack, walkers pack, hikers, groomers, setters, everything like that. So. It's good stuff. If you guys want an actual snow peak, if you guys want an actual sneak peek of it and to get on like just the notification list, because it's going to be insane. You're going to go to Douglas school.com forward slash train dogs, but the link in, uh, in the show notes too, but it's dog, this school forward slash train dogs, and that's all you're going to get. It's only a teaser to there. So. I know we're so evil. We keep the good stuff behind the scenes. Got it is such good shit though. It's just like, fuck. So I know we're at the very end of our time here and I probably should have started. I was thinking about this earlier today, as a matter of fact, it's just. Started by sharing this. So when I was back at Mike's place, um, doing that immersive board and training experience with him with like, fuck it, it was like 129 dogs, I think is the exact count. And my first year of mentorship with him, what was so crazy, it was the, both of us. We were managing this facility together and doing all the training with the dogs together. And the way that we were doing is we, he like taught me this way, like stacking and kind of building off of the behaviors in a way that was going to make sense for them as the pet dogs. Right. And then we would end up with these dogs where we would train them on like 20, 21 different things. Like it was a lot of really cool shit and it was. Like predominantly 99%, like correction free quote unquote, I'm doing like air quotes, cause fucking words these days hashtag anyway, ask me. Right. Um, but it was, it was amazing. And that's what I learned. It wasn't an example and facility way early on in my career, I come out of that and I have never in my career ever, ever seen or heard or witnessed firsthand, let alone second hands. That level of quality happening in any facility ever. And I'll never forget the way that he had everything set up and how he and I lived off of those principles after workers for my entire career, including now. And so like every time I find myself in a new situation, I'd like curtailed craft, everything to be like, cool. How can I make this process work? How could I make the system work? And I ended up with like this amazing quick, like. Inspirational level fucking training style that connects with regular dog owners. Like especially those higher end clients and allows dog walkers stuff, pets that are stuffed dogs. I mean, it doesn't even matter. It's just like, it's almost like having a it's like teaching the dog a language and then everything else, you do everything else you bring to the table that you already know. Astronomically easier. Yeah. Just like things just happened so quickly. So yeah, I've seen it in, have I seen it in action? And I'm not just saying this because I work with Maggie. I've actually seen it in action many, many times, especially when it comes to Mr. Zoom, zoom mix. Nubbins her new puppy by the way, baggie has the most adorable Mr. Rotten pants, mic, rotten pants, Roddy. Who has been bred by them. He and Ryan Cambio by the way, exciting stuff on Ryan, by the way, coming up too. Exactly. So you guys have to get to know Ryan. Ryan's amazing. We love Ryan. And the level of puppy this puppy has already is like mind blowing, like incredibly mind blowing. And I've seen Maggie work the puppy for just two minutes at a time, three minutes at a time. Even her son working the puppy three minutes at a time. And I also saw it with, so in California, That one dog that Ashley McClung had and Popeye and everything like that. So it's just an incredible and blended it's. You know, I almost want to say it's intuitive to the dog and to the owner as well. Super once you understand the basic fucking principles, like it's almost like dog trainers have historically overcomplicated everything so much that like, it's like, wow. Wow. Let's boil this down as simple shit you got. Yeah. So that's why it works so well for the fucking translate to it beautifully when you get good at this style, like it's this huge, less is more principle too. So like, you know, Kristen is telling you guys because you have, you've experienced zoom a little bit and yeah. You know, how, how really good he is? That's off of me, literally minimal, like I've been working hard on the middle of minimalist work with him. I really barely done anything. So I'm waiting to get shit on camera for a little while later. So it's like, I won't start certain things. So you know, the little bit I've done, like it's already. Shining through, because I have just that basic principle down with him, uh, the foundation games and whatnot, but it is, it it's like teaching them the language of like, Hey, this is how we're going to learn together really fucking fast in a way that they really get it. Um, yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome. And when you talk fast, like, like fast results or whatever, which I hate the word. And I know a lot of dog trainers cringe at it, but it's like, it's not cutting corners at all. It's actually getting really deep into the details, but because you have that intuitive level and you know, this is literally the art of dog training. Like I know there's already a book about it by the monks and Mark, Mr. Mark Goldberg himself, like the part of dog training. Love you, Mark. Hope you liked your watch. Um, but at the same time, this is truly like. It's the art of dog training, but it's also the science of human design and like how humans learn too, because you come from an educational background yourself, like your mom's at your house right now. Staying there, educating your son home schooling. I grew up, yeah. I grew up in a school literally. Like it was there. First thing in the morning to after everybody left at night with my mom at the school. So yeah, it's, it's interesting. So I'm super excited for January. Well, I'm gonna wrap this up. Um, Maggie, is there anything else you want to let everybody know about? Or if you want to give them a one quick, a quick bite of advice or information for the dog trainers out there that might be, they might not admit they're struggling, but deep down we might know you are. What would you say to them? I'd say at the end of the day, whether you're looking to refine your skills or not, I think we can all agree that we're all really busy and really distracted. So part of the art of what we're going to start delving into, and what I really love delving into is the minimalization and the ease on your schedule. Like the quicker you can refine and get through things, the quicker you can move on to other things or get to other things with the dog or your email or whatever. Right. So in this day and age, we really do need models that are going to make us better educators. Right? First and foremost, we need models that are going to improve the functionability. So to speak of the services we're offering to like the real life dog owner out there. Uh, and to also do it in a way that. Really kind of keeps people coming back, you know, because we have recognized that they're busy, we're offering boarding or daycare, whatever the extra services, but like really addressing and helping to support people. And yeah, you can say. As always grassroots is what raising the fucking bar on the standards. Cause fuck standards. Let's keep raising the bar, especially when it comes to product training. Yeah. Yeah. We need to, we need to think outside of the dog, we actually need to think outside of the dog. I'm just thinking of those little hands by the way right now. So outside the box, if you guys are forever into grassroots of this school, you'll see the little hands video and. Do you ever see like those blooper reels from TV shows where people can not get it together? Yeah, that was me. And I'm serious. I can usually get it together and snap into, you know, Facilitating acting mode very quickly. And Maggie had these little hands talking about, you know, being a confident queen on being a toned up confident queen on camera for your marketing. And she used little hands and it was just killing me the entire time. Well, both of us, we could not stop laughing. I posted a video of it on our main Facebook page to you guys. It's hilarious. Sorry guys. Well, Maggie, thank you. It's always a pleasure to have you here. You know what I would love? You know what I, you know, I don't want you guys to, this is all I want from you guys. This is what I want. Come say hi, over at the grassroots dog business owners group on Facebook, come say hi to me, it'd be like, Oh my God, I want to learn more about this part of what you talked about and like, let me know what peaks your interest the most and why. And like, I want to hear back from you guys about me, like talk about you. Yeah. Cool. So all you gotta do is just type into Facebook, uh, grassroots dog owners, and the group should a pop up for you guys. All right. Cool. And I'll put a link in the show notes as well. So you can just go into Spotify or Apple and just click on the link and. One of our unicorns will a preview pretty quickly. Well, Maggie, it's been real as usual. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. And we'll all talk to you later. Bye guys. Bye. Hey there. Thank you for listening to another bad-ass episode of my Juro dog business. If you haven't already subscribed. What are you waiting for? Oh my God. Go and subscribe now. So you don't miss out on any of our content pack, dog business jam sessions, plus special offers that I'm going to only be sharing with my amazing Doug business entrepreneurial podcast listeners. Now, if you've enjoyed this episode, Be sure to leave a five star kick ass review. So more amazing dog business owners, just like yourself, confine us, and starts to transform and disrupt their businesses and their lives unapologetically. And if you feel so inclined, feel free to tag me on Instagram with a screenshot of this episode and holler at your girl at dog-walker coach. You can find me dog-walker coach and I'll pop up and I'll give you a special shout out. All right guys, till next time. Bye.