Hell is Meeting The Person You Could Have Been: Burnout In The Dog Industry

Hell is Meeting The Person You Could Have Been: Burnout In The Dog Training Industry with Burnout Coach Katie Carroll 

In this powerful episode of Mind Your Own Dog Business, Kristen Lee sits down with burnout-expert and nurse turned master health coach Katie Carroll on the topic of BURNOUT & the power of saying no as a dog trainer, dog walker, pet sitter. And how every single listener out there in the pet industry, the message you are enough. 

Burnout coach Katie Carroll discuss in-depth the devastating consequences of being burned out has on your mental, physical and spiritual health as a pet professional and why the basic advice of "just take a vacation, or just do yoga" is BULLSH*T and doesn't get to the ROOT of the issue. 

Katie shares her own story about burnout, which MANY of you will resonate with and find similar. Katie also shares how to know if you're experiencing burnout, how you can start advocating for yourself, and start reclaiming your lives back from burnout as dog biz entrepreneurs and business owners.

How To Connect to Katie Carroll:

Katie's Website to Learn More

Listen to her podcast on iTunes & Spotify 

Follow Her On IG

Join Her FREE Facebook Group

Book A Call With Katie 

Design Your Future By Dominick Quartuccio 

Other Links:

Check out more episodes of Mind Your Own Dog Business

Connect with Kristen & Grassroots:

Online: www.dogbizschool.com

Instagram: @dogwalkercoach

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GrassrootsDogBizSchool 

Transcript

0:02

You're listening to the mind, your own dog business podcast. I'm your host leading expert in dog business. Strategic Kristen Lee guys. Get ready for your journey, your journey to cutting edge marketing and sales, creating a standout kick ass dog business grant, along with mastering your mindset. That's going to smash. All of this glass ceilings that have been holding you back and catapult your dog business to the next level with actionable steps, you can take right away. We're going to empower you. We're going to grow you as you step into your authentic self. Not only as a dog trainer, dog Walker, or what ever slice the pet industry, you find yourself in. But as that bad-ass entrepreneur, my mission is to disrupt the current norm. Cut through the noise, cut through the bullshit and empower the incredible women of the dog business industry to step into the spotlight, reclaim control and transform not only in their businesses, but their lives. It's real. It's raw. It's uncensored. And it's what this dog business industry needs. Let's do this guys. All right, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of the mind, own a dog, a biz podcast, the pet industry podcast that keeps it real, that keeps it raw, and that it keeps it fresh for all the amazing business entrepreneurs that happen to be in the business of those furry creatures. We call dogs. Now today, guys, I have another incredibly special guest by Katie. Carol. Katie is an incredible resource for us. Everything. When it comes to mindset, when it comes to burnout and she basically gets shit done, she walks the walk. She talks the talk and she's certified in all the things around health, coaching and burnout. So I'm super excited to have her here and she's a. Good old friend from my back of Jersey. She's got the Jersey accent too. So what happens is when you get to Jersey girls together, our accents are probably going to amplify from each other. So welcome to my drone dog business. I'm so excited to have you here and share you. Oh, Kristin, thank you so much. I am so super excited to be on your show. Talk to you and talk to your community. So thank you. Thank you for taking the time. Cause I know you are a busy woman. You have a health coaching business. You work with other industry professionals in the healthcare industry around burnout, and you are also a full time nurse. So it. It truly means a lot. And plus we're in the middle of a pandemic too. So for you to take out the time today is just incredibly important. I want to honor that space. Thank you again for coming on. Oh, thank you, Krista and I fully, fully appreciate that and thank you for being a frontline worker to hear. You're welcome. So, Katie, I want to ask you and to let our listeners know, how long have you been working with women and other professionals in burnout? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, because when I started going back to school to be a health coach, I thought it was to help other people and as a nurse, and I feel like as most women we're givers and we're always looking to help others. And I thought, okay, let me go back to school and get another certification so I could help other people. But in reality, it was actually to help myself. I learned later, Being that hindsight is 2020. I learned that going back to school to be a health coach was to help me first and foremost, because I was going through my deepest burnout in my nursing career, in my life knife. And then it was meant to help others. It's been about five years now that I've been a certified health coach. Oh, wow. Well, you and I know, I know a lot about that, that a lot of nurses are strictly in a ton of burnout. I know you speak to a lot of them on that, right? I do I do. Yes. Especially now more than ever with the pandemic and what people have I've experienced. It's definitely at the top of mind, I know a lot of people are talking about mental health, health, and burnout and stress in the current world that we're living in as nurses. And just as. People as humans going through this time, it's like collectively, we're all in this whole state of like this burnout. It's insane. It's interesting because you can see collectively, like have a lot of things are starting to shift and it's not the sound. Oh, we like, when I say the collective, but collectively things are starting to shift and I hope we get into having that conversation a little bit later too. Yes. So, Katie, what would you say is, is your super power. Mm, I love this question and. I would say that my super power is connecting with people. It's funny because looking back now, when I think about what I wanted to be, when I was growing up, I want it to be either a news anchor. Yeah. Woman or. A pediatric nurse or a physical therapist. And in a way they all are about connecting with people in different ways. And I followed the nursing school route. I've been a pediatric nurse for 21 years, but now that I'm a health coach and a speaker. I am actually on a stage speaking to people. So that news anchor woman kind of came to fruition as I'm speaking. And at the, at the core of it all is connection with people. And I just truly love when you get in that space with someone and you just both are vibing off of each other and there's empathy there. There's connection. And there's just this soul to soul meeting. That you get when you're with someone. And that is what I just truly love doing and being is a connector. Um, there's so much power in just connection and just having that deeper understanding, like level of just working with people and like for a lot of listeners here, there are a lot of dog trainers look better listening in. And something that I preach consistently is even when they're just out there connecting with people, through their content, through their sales processes, through their program, design the power of connection and having that facilitated conversation is the most powerful thing. And the most life changing thing, because, you know, it's what makes us human. And I feel that on a soul level, we need that level of connection. And then also to build a community around it. So I love that your super powers connection. You're in good company. Katie you thank you, Kristin ditto. Um, so by the way, Katie and I know each other through cross, it's been from years and years ago, years and years ago. Um, I always talk about like it's CrossFit days, like, cause I'm not across it anymore, but in my CrossFit days, Katie can back it up that I was CrossFitter. Yeah. So yes, that was our connection girl. Um, so Katie, what is last thing that you've accomplished that made you so incredibly proud? Hmm. You know, that's a really, um, good question. I think overall, when I think about what I've accomplished and that's like something that. You know, I want to bring to your community, Kristin and I like to bring to my community is that I feel like sometimes we want to do more to prove to ourselves or other people that we're worth enough or that we're enough. So we pile more on our plates too, to prove it to people that we can do all the things and probably. What I've done recently that I'm really proud of. It's actually twofold. I actually. Pursued getting a per diem job on the side of my full time nursing job and my business, I applied for a per diem nursing job, thinking that it was just one more Avenue of revenue. It was one more thing that I could just put on my belt of things that are I can do. And I soon realized that I had too much on my plate. And that it was overloaded calming for me, mind, body spirit. And it was starting to affect me in my life with my relationships, with my full time nursing career, with my business. And so I actually let that job go within less than three months of school Harding. I actually was honest with them and said, I put too much on my plate. And even though I was embarrassed, At the thought of saying I can't do this because I think in a way I looked at it as a failure that I tried to, to do something. And now I was saying that I couldn't do it, but in reality it was more that I. I couldn't, I didn't have the bandwidth to be able to do it the best that I could when I had so many other things on my plate. And so I let it go. And honestly, Kristin, it was this huge weight off my shoulders. When I let that go. And I realized that what I already have on my plate, I have to nurture and help grow what I already have. So overall that's probably, that just happened last month for me, um, in letting that go. So that's kind of been at the top of my mind lately. Yeah. Well, like Bernay Brown says there's such a vulnerability in leadership and by you recognizing of like, okay, cool. I want to do this just because of, it's another thing to tick off almost, right. Essentially. It's another Avenue of rev that can come in that supports me. Cause you know, you're, I know you're in the beginning, not the beginning, but you're in the mid level ranges of your business and. By you saying, listen, this is way too much. And being like, listen, I'm going to be vulnerable about it. I can't effing do it all is a huge, huge, the thing of leadership. Like there is a, you dare to lead with that as per Hey, Brown says, and you admitted the vulnerability around it. And that is just incredibly powerful. Super quick. Have you ever taken any gram test by the way? I never have, but I've heard so much about it. Yeah. Who are most likely either? I'm thinking you are. Three cause I'm a strong three wing four. Okay. You're either a three with a two wing or you're a two with a three wing. That means that if you're a three you're called the producer, the Cheever where you want to take in all the things like to do all the stuff. And just to get more things off your plate to get things on your plate to deliver it and produce. Right. But you, you like to, you like to produce, you're a producer, right? If you put us in we're robots for assembly line worker, not assembly line workers, but we're. Heavy heavy, heavy. My Instagram going for is I am just get shit done and just push it out and just be kind of cocky about it. But if you're a wing two and you're an anagram three, you're the helper. You're the one who produces for the sake of helping others and to like lead others. Think, I think you'd like to test, I would recommend highly taking the test. I definitely want to, I mean, I, I hear so much about it, so it's just a matter of time until I bite the bullet and do it. It's incredible. It's incredible. Um, so what's your favorite quote, Katie? Ah, you know, Kristen, I get a motivational quote every morning from this woman. Who's also a life coach and I signed up for it about, it's probably been about two years now. And so when I think about my favorite quote, there's so many, but I think right now in the space that I am in, in pursuing my business and becoming the woman that I want to be, that I know I can be. I read this book, it's called design your future by my friends, Dominic cartoon, geo. I actually know him in real life. Um, yeah. And it's a really great book about literally designing your future and in it, he does quote someone in a, I can't remember who he quoted or where he got it from, but whenever I repeat it to someone, it continues to give me the chills and gives the person I'm telling it the chills. So. The quote is basically what is the definition of hell? And it says that the definition of hell is that on your very last day, here on this earth, you meet the person you could have become. Ooh, I just got chills to see girls me too. Right now. It's like deep breath in because on the one hand, Sometimes we think we have to do more. Right. But my whole philosophy and my mission in this world is to help women believe that they're enough today. Exactly. As they are, because we were born enough. Um, and somewhere along the line, we forget that. And we think that we have to start accumulating more things, more people in our life, more money so that we can feel enough and be enough. And that's, that's my whole mission because there was a time in my life where I wasn't feeling enough. But I didn't know that I was just going to home goods all the time, ending a hundred dollars and then going to target two days later and spending a hundred dollars on candles and towels, and then getting another certification and then another certification and joining another committee. Because I was looking to prove that I was enough. And so I bring it back to, we are enough exactly. As we are, we have to tap into everything that's already there. We were, we were born with everything we need. We just need to take the time in the space and give ourselves the grace to look within and say, everything I need is already within me. So the things that I want in life are just waiting for me to show up with everything that I am and everything that I could be. And it starts from within. Hmm. That's fuck. I want to actually a, I feel called out because I just went to home goods and target yesterday. Oh, it was for a photo. It was for a photo shop. I'm just believe me, I still do it. I still do it. But like, Exactly. When I used to do it all the time, thinking that it would make me feel better. Yeah. Well, I also, I also want to bring it back to the audience that's listening because what I see with a lot of dog trainers, especially, and then also pet professionals, and this is, I'm not calling anybody out specifically. This is just to create awareness. So this is triggering you. This is why you need to be listening to this. I cause I always believe triggers are unhealed part of ourselves. Yeah. However, I see this a lot with Kate Katie, with her, a lot of our students, a lot of our listeners and a lot of the market is twofold. Like you were saying first and foremost, they have to have all the certifications. Like they always consistently have to go education education. And one thing that grassroots does is like, okay, cool. You know, you most likely have an innate knowledge of skills and training dogs, but we also want to tap into that true power within as well. And secondly, what I struggle, what we see a lot of women struggling with, especially that are in our school. The ones that are some of them are probably listening to is when we start to, cause I truly believe in wealth creation because I believe there's so much power with wealth and not just, just not, you know, not, I'm not just talking about making a million dollars or six figures in your business. But when you create enough wealth, it opens up other doors and empowers you and empower your community. You can give back. So one thing that we teach a lot of our students is to have higher end programs like five K and above, and what the default mechanism of everybody. And even my husband, who is. Been in dog training for over a decade, almost two decades at this point is when you strategically add more attachment money to it, you attached to this emotion of where I have to do more show up more. Over-perform overextend myself, you know, open my bandwidth even more versus just like, okay, I am enough being comfortable with that knowledge that you are enough, but the level you can serve your people at and actually create, you know, A little bit more money from it, more profit. So it's just, this is going to be a really good conversation. Cause I, I see a lot of people struggling with it. Cause the first thing is women and especially pet industry peeps. They default to doing more when they want to, you know, have alright. Cool. Alright. Okay. I'm getting hungry. I'm getting excited. I'm getting excited about this too, right? I do want to chat though about a few things first and foremost, Katie, I think we cause Katie came in and did an amazing, amazing guest class with our grassroots people. Almost like it's been about a year, maybe two years ago. And I actually opened Katie's eyes to burnout because the pet industry is com is. They're burnt out. Like a lot of people are mentally physically spent and spiritually spent and something that a lot of people talk about. It's, it's, it's not discussed in the death. I want to go to say, because there's people that talk about burnout and there's only a few certified compassion, fatigue, and burnout, burnout peeps in there. But people always like, Oh, just turn off your phone or whatever. And what I see happening is there's like, Almost as like 6 cents of sick, not six but 6 cents of a Rite of passage. Unfortunately now, because we have lost a few people to suicide. Um, it's being taken seriously in the pet dog industry and being openly spoken about, which is good. It's not being swept under the rug, but what I see Katie and Katie, I know me and you chatted about how I kind of blurt things out and speak from my purpose. My purpose is. I see a lot of toxic positivity over it, meaning, you know, just the basic advice of like, Oh, well, you've got to set a boundary. I know for a fact boundaries go much deeper versus just like, Hey, turn off your phone or go on a vacation. Or, you know, it's just say no or whatnot or whatever. Right. There's not really a deeper level of connection and conversation around how we can start treating burnout because it's always going to be there. But something that. I fully, fully believe because here's the deal, Katie, I don't know if you know this. A lot of people in the pet industry go into animals because they're, and this is not, this is not, I'm not making general statement, but they seek the safety of animals. Right. They seek the non-judgment, they're more empathetic, but we need to start prioritizing mental and physical health. And I know there is more when it comes to burnout. Just then the app saying, go on vacation or what not, or hire some. So this is why I'm excited that you're here to share, like, you know, you are enough, a little bit about burnout, right. And kind of overcoming that, but something I want to get really right. Real about super quick. Katie, can you share. Your experience with working professionals, especially people that have been, you know, pediatric Nick, like ICU, some really, really tough places to nurse and to be a practice owner. Can you share some of the effects you've seen of continuous burnout? Like both mentally and physically, like, like be real, like, can you tell people what the real freaking deal is like when you operate consistently in burnout and always trying to expand your bandwidth? Hmm, I appreciate it. Thank you for that, Kristen. I'm taking it all in because in my work over the past couple of years and you know, being a nurse and talking with people. You know all the time about burnout. And I remember we're speaking with you when we did the class that you know, the people in your industry as well are very high achieving successful women. And I find that in nursing too, that we're high achievers and a lot of perfectionist. And unfortunately, just like you were saying, it's like a Rite of passage and the dog business. I feel like the same thing in nursing. It's a Rite of passage that, Oh yeah. You know, you're, you're definitely going to get burned out. Yeah. Um, and people might say, just take more vacations, like you were saying, or, you know, do yoga on your day off and everything fine, which totally, you know, not a hundred percent true. And so. The repercussions of burnout. What I see and what I've heard is a, the whole idea of it. Picture of the hamster on the hamster wheel. Hmm. And I feel like when we start to feel burned out, we do more, which sounds counterintuitive, but that's, so me, I feel, yeah, that's just look I was doing recently and it, because we start to feel pain. And so we think that, okay, let me do more, let me do more. And then I picture this hamster and, you know, going faster and faster and faster on the wheel, but eventually. Literally like the hamster falls off the wheel. You know, sometimes the hamster doesn't even know that he can get off of the wheel. Right? Sometimes you need that outside person to come in and say, you know, you need to give yourself rest and recovery. You know, you need to give yourself the space. To fill up your own cup. And that's what I preach and always talk about because the more you do people aren't maybe consciously realizing that they are going to become physically sick. Right. I mean, we all feel that right when we've done too much, and then we get, you know, a cold or a fever, um, or, you know, then we're exhausted. And so. On our next day off, you know, we don't get anything done because we don't even have the energy in our tank. And I've also seen people suffer anxiety and depression, having anxiety coming into work. And so. What I've seen. And what I know for myself when I was in my deepest burnout is I came into work with this shield on and I would try to protect myself from everything for those 12 and a half hours. But as you can imagine, like putting on like an armor, like heavy armor that covers your heart center. Right? And then maybe you also put on like, Knee pads and elbow pads in case you fall. And then you're wearing that and carrying that weight around for your whole day, your six, eight, 12 hour day, every week, every month, every year, what eventually happens is you start to break down, right? Like your heart starts to break down because. It's it's being protected in a way, but it's not allowing itself to even experience joy. You're protecting it from the pain, but you're also protecting it from experiencing any kind of joy. And then your knees break down your back breaks down. And what I have found is people, then they become what you know, in the nursing world. So many people say is these. Hardened, you know, um, burnt-out nurses that aren't very friendly to people, people, and they say nurses eat their young. Oh, why? Because you know, she's been a nurse 30, 40 years and she, or he is miserable. In their profession. And so they take it out on everybody around them. Um, and that's not such an inviting thing to think about, especially for people that are coming up in the nursing business or people that are coming into the dog business, you know, at their fresh 20 to 25 year old selves. And they're looking to people that have been doing this for 10, 20, 30 years. And these people look absolutely miserable. And maybe they don't realize it's coming out, but people notice it, you know, and like on a deeper and you know, even more serious note as well is I know people that have turned to alcohol or drugs, you know, For burnout and, you know, myself included, like I remember coming home from work when I worked in the pediatric emergency room. And like, I couldn't wait to pour that glass of wine that was reward for having a hard day at work or being taxed at work. But the thing is, one glass can turn into two glasses, could turn into every night. And even on the days when I wasn't working come five, six, seven, o'clock at night, I'm cooking dinner and I'm like, Oh, let me have a glass of wine or two. And eventually over time, if that's okay, starts inhibiting you. If that makes you feel foggy the next day, if you feel like you need to turn. To that glass of wine for comfort, because it's what you've now built up as a habit that can become Detrick for mental over time to turn into a bigger problem if it's not faced in the proper way. So there's everything from. You know, not being in a good mood per se, to full on anxiety, depression, turning to drugs and alcohol, and also the suicide rate, like you were saying. And there has been, you know, people in the healthcare industry that have taken their lives during COVID because we say it was the pressure of the pandemic, but what led up to that point? Did they not have the proper resources or proper outlets or proper support to help them during a time when you, you you're being taxed more than you've ever been taxed in your life? And so just seeing like the whole gamut of possibilities of how burnout can truly affect you, mind, body, and spirit. Hmm. I want to unpack a lot of what you just said. If you don't mind. Um, there's a few things I want to unpack. I want to unpack kind of. A little bit of what I've experienced. Um, I know this is your platform, but I do want to share it just to let people know they're not alone in this, but the first thing I do want to impact, okay. Is around that, write a passage from, I call it legacy dog trainers. You know, I don't know if you guys have that, that type of thing, that legacy nurse that's been in that industry, that, that hospital for 30, 40 years. And deep down at their core. They're really legit people. They're great people, but it's taken time to get to that heart and soul, which I fully see too, because we all wear that armor. Especially if we over performers, never givers. And when people go and like you, like, you're describing, you have your, your mid twenties people, they're bright eyed, bushy tailed. They want to make an impact in the world. And I see this in the industry a lot. I see it rampant. Freaking Facebook groups and other people at workshops is like, these people come in and this is the new generation of dog trainers. These people are going to continue the legacy after, you know, someone's, so's gone or we're gone, or even we're gone. And the, the, I don't even call it toxic, but the toxicity around it that hardened that art and exterior, which is nobody's, it's just a response, you know, for being an industry for so long. I just see it. I see it a lot. And I see a lot of. And I see it. A lot of people getting beat up for it, like just mentally and fit like the physical gymnastics. It was like just being heard in, and it's like that Rite of passage, like you almost have to get hazed. And you know, one thing that grassroots does is like, we provide safe learning, like the industries, we, the industry professionals we work with have been industries for, you know, 50 years. Like we have Michael Thorpe and you know, he's been around the block for a long time. Right, but we, you know, you foster that community. So I see it a lot in what terrifies us as leader organization is we see these bright eyed, bushy tail trainers coming in, excited. They're ready. They're they want to learn, but then their burnout starts in three years. Five years versus the 30 years, which is highly concerning. So what are we doing? Retraining and over-training industry to like really start to be burnt out and something that I also see too. And this is something I'm going to share a little bit of my story about burnout. Yeah. Is that like two years ago I was a freaking over-deliver. I mean, I was one of those coaches that was ready on the drop of a hat. If your emergency, your emergency was my emergency. And you know, that was because my own physical spot of lacking boundaries. And when I set boundaries, it was really tough, but exactly what you were going through and it would be. The moment. I had some rest time, like if I was traveling or whatnot, I'd come home, I'd get deathly sick. Like I'd get the flu like bad and be down for the count. Like I wouldn't even be able to be off and something that I've noticed since really setting these really hard boundaries over the last 18 months or last year, especially. Is I haven't gotten sick my days off I'm present. I'm there. I'm mentally. So that's what I see. And that was like one of those habits. And I did a podcast a couple episodes ago about the addiction of being busy. I was fully addicted to being busy and addiction runs in my blood. It runs in my DNA because I have a lot of addicts in my house and my house, not my house or my current house, but my, my family, my generational, we have generation addiction and. I started with the drinking too. It turned into a habit. And now that I've, I've been, I purposely mindfully not drinking, not because, you know, I believe I have an addiction to it, but I saw that as like one glass of cider turned it to two, two glasses, cider turned into three, and then it was like, I have a six pack a night and I was like, Whoa. And it started to be like, On the days off too. And like I started setting rolls around. I was like, okay, something's going on? But that was like my own experience with burnout. Like just, yeah, it's just insane how much this stuff. So I just wanted to kind of share that and unpack that a tiny bit with you. So, and I remember my next door neighbor growing, growing up, she was one of those nurses. She was, she was bad ass. Like her name was Gail buck. Cause she was. Uh, he, uh, uh, trauma surgery nurse, she was a powerful one, but now looking at it, she had that armor that she wore consistently. So. Yeah, this is so interesting. Thank you for sharing all this. I'm like I'm processing because too you, me too, I'm taking this all in. Do you, Katie, do you think of this? And this is something that I've been working with through my own, with my own mental health professional, that consistently being busy and consistently adding more. Do you believe that's a trauma response or do you believe that's just something that is kind of a learned behavior? Hmm. What a good question. Um, I think in a way it's almost a learned behavior. As far as when I think of me in my personal life wanting to be busy and stay busy, I feel like it's been passed down from generations. And it's funny, cause I was just, I'm writing something up the other day about this is that I think we've been. It's just been ingrained in us that your life is going to go this way. And you're just going to keep doing, you're going to go to school. You're going to graduate. You're gonna go to college, graduate, pursue your job. Meet someone, get married, buy a house, have a baby. Have the second baby may be moved to a new house. Maybe have the third baby, have a dog. And. When I think about the people, especially some of the women in my community who their life wasn't going that way. And yeah, maybe they graduated high school, went to college, graduated, started their career. But yeah, instead of following the path of. Meeting that someone getting married, having the house, having the child for me, you know, personally 43 years old, never been married, never had a child. I then looked to stay busy because I thought, well, okay, now they got engaged. So let me put something on my plate, like a new committee, and now they got married. So now let me get another certification on my plate and now they're pregnant. So let me get another certification. And now they bought a new house. You know, maybe I should go back to school and get my master's because it was almost like this, you know, I felt like that's what you had to do to be enough, to be seen as enough to be seen as worthy, because if you weren't doing all that, then what were you doing? And unfortunately, sometimes society, you know, it's the whole mentality of, Oh, you probably have all the time in the world, you know, you don't have kids. You're lucky you don't have a house to take care of. You live in an apartment. Lucky. You don't have to worry about a mortgage, but at the same time, it's almost like a backhanded compliment. Because then you feel like, Oh, am I lazy? Should I, should I go back to school? Because I have all this quote unquote free time. And so just personally speaking, I feel like it's become this learned behavior that. You know, you have to be, what else are you doing in your life now? What are you doing now? And you know, I'm really also diving into boundaries over these past couple of months and, you know, learning how to say no. So I can say yes to myself and that I don't need to pile something else onto my plate to prove that I'm enough. And to prove that I'm staying busy because you know, at the end of all this, are we going to get an award for, you know what, Katie, you were busy, 97% of your life. Good job. That 3% where you were exhausted laying in bed, not doing anything, you know, don't worry about it, but good job on being busy. Yeah. Pat on the head, like, here you go. Here's a cookie. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's the same thing I see, you know, as. Um, um, you know, I have Frank and we've been together for two decades and it's one of those things of like, you know, we don't have, I'd never planned to have children. I just, I was, I always said I would never have children. It's just, it's not a unique desire. Does it mean I don't like kids? I absolutely love children. And I feel, I feel that at the core, because. It was like, Hey, well, you don't, your life must be so easy. Cause you don't have kids or whatever, and you have a business you must be successful, so you must do this. And so that really resonates with me too, because it's like, okay, cool. So I done all this stuff. What's next. What's next? And I think what's going to resonate with a lot of listeners right now. Now is the whole thing of people on the, I call it the internal yeah. An external view. Right? Cause an internal view. We are, you know, As entrepreneurs as business owners, as career women as know who we are at a DNA level, right. We're running a million freaking miles an hour, like consistently, but on the external people don't see that we don't just, they don't see we're human and something I think is going to resonate with somebody that's listening to us is. They get this, they call it the, we call it the paper. Perfect. Um, or sales manager calls it, Emily Nolan calls it the paper cut effect. The little comments of, Oh, well you're a business owner owners. You have all this flexibility. You get to work from home or, Oh yeah. You know, you're, you're a dog trainer. You get to play with dogs all day. And it says little paper cuts that force women to actually start to in some women I'm not making generalists. I hate to make generalizations because everybody's a human. But it's like, they force it's that whole being forced in a box. And then it's like, okay. So I gotta, you know, outperform this or do what that, so this is a real, I keep saying this is a really good conversation. Cause it right. We're touching on a lot of important things. And then I hope like my listeners are listening to us because this is a para, this is one of the most powerful conversations we've had on here so far. So, no, it's so true because I think, you know, the, the older I get, the more I dive into this work is that we're more alike than we are different. So speaking my truth and connecting with people, like I said, is, you know, that's, my hope is to resonate with at least one person, if not more out there in the world, because I know I'm not the only one that's ever felt like this in my life. So, Katie, what are some of the smaller indicators like those paper cuts we were just chatting about and some of the bigger indicators. Of burnout and everything. We're talking about that dog business owners, whether they're dog trainers, pack hikers, pack, walkers, groomers that need to start to pay attention to you. Like what's like the one, like what are a couple of things that if you could smack younger Katie, who was just saying she was in the industry of dogs over the head with a water bottle, like what were, what are some of the indicators that people need to start paying attention? Oh, I love this. I think one of the biggest things, and I know I'm. I'm working on it myself is that when someone asks you to do something and I was talking about this with a coworker recently, that she felt like in so many areas for life, people are taking from you and you know, that's going to happen. We take from others, they take from us, but. When you're approached with one asking of your time, your energy, your money. I think that we've been conditioned to say, okay, sure. If someone says, Hey, you know what, Katie, I am running, you know, for your community. Like we have this dog show next month and I really need a volunteer. And your initial reaction is, Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. You know, but then all of a sudden, immediately after is a gut, like. Oh, why did I say yes to that? Because God damn it. I already know I have too much on my plate and then it just starts this vicious cycle of them. We feel guilty that well now what if I say no? Oh, what are they going to think of me? And what I'm learning is that. A little trick that I give my clients and that I'm also working on is that when someone says to you. Hey, Katie, can you volunteer at this dog show next month? I take a breath and I say, thank you so much for asking me about that. Let me check my schedule and I'll let you know, even if. You know, you know, you want to say no, but you feel uncomfortable in the moment. You kind of give that, let me check my schedule and let you know. And then you've given yourself the time, time and space that, you know, how you hear people say, if it's not a hell yes, hell no. Sometimes there's a middle ground. Sometimes you are wondering, would I be able to fit this in? But I think then we go down also the road of, is this something that's going to serve me? Right now. And so those two things, you know, listening to your gut and is this going to serve me? If you look at your schedule then, and you know what you say, you know what I can do it. It's on the weekend. I have off that week and we don't have any plans and it'll be a good networking event and something I could put on my resume. Then maybe yes. But if your feeling is, Oh, good, God, you know, it was like the only weekend next month where we had nothing planned and I kind of wanted to keep it open, then go with that and believe in yourself to say, you know what. Thank you so much for asking me, but I'm not going to be able to do that next time, but keep me in mind for the next time, because it sounds so cliched, Kristin, but like saying no to someone else is saying yes to yourself. You know, and so I think we've been conditioned unfortunately, to yes. People. Yes, yes. I can do this. I can do this. I can. And then all of a sudden we see there at night and we say to our partner who's ever in our house be, be our best friend or mom on the phone. And we're like, you know, so, and so they asked me to do something and I said, yes, but it's like, I don't really want to do it. And, and the only person. That can rise up in that moment and say, thank you so much for asking me, but I can't do it is you. So that's why I empower women. I empower myself to say, I am not going to be able to do this, but thank you for asking. And we have this fear that, well, what if they never asked me again? And what I say is, Oh, believe me, sister, I'm going to ask you again. They're probably going to ask you to do it the next month, you know, so it's getting that like gut check and also knowing that. You know, if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no, there may be a little middle ground, but give yourself the space to say, I'm going to think about it. And if it's something that serves me. And that's not selfish. I feel like in the business that we're in your community, my community, if it's going to serve me and it's not selfish, I'm saying, could this potentially get me a new client? Could this be a networking event? Will I be able to hand out my business cards and talk about my business? Well then yes, maybe this is something I want to do, but if it's not and you know it, and your gut is telling you, no, it's okay. To say, no. Thank you. yeah. That's, that's incredibly powerful. It's really interesting because. Um, my business partner, the CEO of grassroots, a lot of people think she's goofy and you know, and she just, how she is. Right. She's a very friendly, very open, very where her heart is sleeve. And if you ask her something, chances are, she's going to say yes, like people, this is not an invitation to go blow up Maggie's phone guys, by the way. But just the way she is as a person, she's naturally, she wants to help. She wants to build a community. She wants to, you know, to empower people. So in order to help her, we literally had to build a team around her to tell them to say no, like for example, if somebody wants her to come on and chat about something, they go through. Our, uh, one of our first, our line of defense, we call it the line of defense. We have a moat boundaries. We call it now. Love that. Yeah, because we had to do that. We had to do that and you know, for her, and I hope she doesn't mind them sharing her story. For her deep down, she wants to help. It's her little inner child saying, yes, I want to be liked. I want to do this, but for her own process recovery of this, we had to build the motor defense. So for, you know, it goes to the first line of assistance and then it goes to our operational manager, which you've had the pleasure of connecting with. And then it goes to me and then I'm like, all right. Yeah. I'll make that decision to hurt for her because she needs that level of defense. So I'm just letting people know it's okay to struggle with this because even some of the top people in the industry, in the pet industry struggle with this, like we have to say no, and I use I'm like that too. Katie, like the first thing people ask me, I'm like, yeah, sure. And by being able to say no, like you said, allows me to say yes to myself to focus on, okay, well, I can't go on this person's podcast because a, it doesn't fit. Their, their community doesn't fit where I'm at right now. It's just not going to be fair. Cause then I'm gonna have to say no to a whole bunch of people. And secondly, it allows me to freeze up the space so I can bring somebody on like you to come onto our podcast to share. So it's, it's really, really, really interesting because we are so conditioned to say yes, Like even like in our own organization, like somebody like, Hey, we want to do this. I'm like, yeah, I'll do it. And I'm like, ah, shit, what do I have on my plate now? You know what I mean? It's okay. We want to go and do this for a week. I'm like, okay. Yes, we'll do this. Right. And I'm like, Oh shit. And then I come back my tail between my legs. That's that moment. Yeah. It's like, cause we're just so conditioned to say yes to people please and whatever, but then again, unpacking, this is why we were all just. Why we wear all that armor and our knees are breaking down. Our buys are breaking down. So it's all super important. And anybody that's listening, it's like, no, you can actually say no to a really great client. You can say no to somebody that doesn't fit with you and with your business or where you're at, or you're not in alignment with it's okay to say that because you're saying yes to yourself and. This is something that I'd like your input on too. Katie. I feel like a lot of people are also saying yes to people that might not be the fit or to do the yes. The yes, man stuff. Just because they're, they're fearing a lack, right. They're fairing a lack of financial security or whatnot. So. I mean, it's, it's almost like that whole, like, it's like a prickly ball effect of like, ah, I want to say no, but I want to say yes, because there's so many different consequences. So I want to just say to the person listening that it's like, well, I have to say as Kristen, because I need this cash or I need this in my business, or I need to grow my portfolio. It's like by you saying no, it allows the space to do the work and to affect somebody else. It's scary, especially for starting out. But at the same time it works. Yes, it's so true. I love that prickly ball effect because everybody can picture that. And like those little prickly balls that fall down, you know, and you're kind of like stepping around them and because it comes back to the whole, if you say yes to everybody, then you're really helping no one, if you know, I mean with you and what you do in your amazing community, you know, grassroots, dog, biz, I mean, people know right away. It's about dogs. Right. I mean, there's a business, there's a school and you know, you want to draw those people in. And I always think if I am speaking to a room of a hundred people and. You know, it's a mixed audience, but I just say like, Oh, I'd love to empower you then. I'm probably not going to get anybody. If I just think about your, if I just say like, you have to fill up your cup, it's not going to resonate. If I say. Hi, I'm Katie. I've been a pediatric nurse for 21 years. I've been through burnout. I know what it's like a headache, anxiety pulling into the parking garage every day. And I was drinking wine every night. When I came home from work, anybody with me, if there's like five nurses in the audience and they raised their hand, that's immediately five people that are like, Oh my gosh, she's talking my language. So. I love when people will say like, they'll set up an initial consult maybe, and as the business owner, as you, as me as the business owner, we might say to that person, why don't we have a, you know, 30 minutes discovery call, let's see if I'm a fit for you. And if you're a fit for me, because you're right. It's, it's almost, if they're not a good fit for you or your program, you're doing them a disservice by taking their money. Just because you want their money and thinking you can help them win in your gut again, gut check is, I don't really think I can help this person may need more than I can give, or it's not the right fit. And you know, you have to get to that point, obviously, like we were saying, you know where you say, like, it's okay. Not taking. This amount of money and not having that scarcity mindset of that. I really need this $200. It's a disservice to them. And you, cause you're not going to enjoy yourself working out though. Absolutely. Yeah. Like we always talked about on grassroots. It's like, you can't buy your way in, like you have to go through a process because you know, safeties, we believe in safety in our community. We foster safe environments for people can learn and. You know, specifically in our processes, we screen people pretty well. We have a team that does that because, you know, I don't want, and like, I am glad to refund somebody money. Like I actually funny story. I had some, yeah, the, uh, I was like, Months ago came in and, and it was one of those things of where I personally ignored yellow flags and they came in for a VIP. They were coming in for a VIP day and VIP days for us is 10 K plus at this point. And I just ignore the yellow flags because I just did, it was just, I wasn't fully in, I was probably distracted. And I was like, okay, well, it can fit. It's just a VIP day. This person that I can, we can make it work. And I'm the one who gets on the phone for VIP days. Cause I usually run them. Yeah. And I was on the phone with this person and I'm like, okay, I'm going to yell, Chris. Kristen's screaming on the inside. Stop. Stop flags. Amber alert. Amber alert. Yes. And then like everything's screaming and I'm like, okay, cool. Well, they're ready to go. So I'm like, alright, you know, we process them and we got them onboarded. And then the little things started adding up and I'm like, okay, well, this person is out of alignment. I was like, you know what? Here's your money back. Good luck in life type things. And I feel like, you know, I'm not saying this from a place of like, well, we can afford to lose that money. You know, at the end of the day, every business is for profit. You know, we do have, we have a team of employees we need to pay and we all have humans in solid we're sitting around and made shit and what not, but it's that whole thing of saying, no, I. Similar with my husband. Like last week he was on the phone, he was on the phone with somebody and he's like, you know what, I'm going to, he, he put the phone on me really quick. He's like, can I tell somebody now? I'm like, dude. Yeah, of course. He's like, alright, well, I'm going to refer you out. Even though he knew he could help this particular individual, he's like this particular individual will not match my energy level. You know what I mean? And I was so proud of him for being like, no, I don't want this because normally he'd be like, I don't care. Like, I'll just I'll I can go in and change the dog, but he knew that connection wouldn't be there. So, yeah. It's one of those things. It's one of the things we have to set up. Great. When you say no to something that, you know, like it served him to say, no, even though I'm sure he thought I could maybe help them or, you know, but he, he knew in his gut and also saying no to them with saying yes to himself and then opening space for, you know, the ideal client to come into his world. Exactly. It was like energetically. Yeah. He could totally help that dog, but this, and it was like one of his favorite types of cases to work with, but the person on the other level, on the other side, and it wasn't a mean person or anything like that, he's like, we just would have not connected. Cause he's very transparent. He's, you know, we're from Jersey. We were from North Jersey. I love that. When you said that about our accents coming through is like, you have a stronger accent than me because you're from the union County area. That's why, um, At the same time too, you know, like I, he knew that person wouldn't appreciate being blunt and very, very transparent. So he's like, he's like, I know it just wouldn't have been a good fit. And I, I want, I want every single person listening to their it's okay. To not say like, you might be able to help this person, you know, it might be in your wheelhouse, like I'm sure Katie said no to people that come into our coaching, you might be able to help them where they're at, but at the same time, if you're not in alignment with that, and you just say, yes, For whatever reason it's going to cause you more pain than good at the end of the day. And I know, again, it goes down to like, I'm maybe I need that money maybe, or you're stuck in scarcity versus abundance mindset. Yes. But I can tell you for every person you say no to, that might not be a good fit. Energetic wise, or, you know, ideal client wise or whatnot, you are literally making more space for somebody that's going to come in and make the most incredible, incredible, incredible impact for so woo. So Katie, Katie, I want to, I think people might want to know this what goes on and you said something a long time ago and like that class, like, I can't find that video for some reason, but what goes on in the mind of somebody. The mind, body spirit of somebody that's nearing or at the point of burnout, like what's what stories are they telling themselves? Just so they can know, like, if this is, if somebody is listening to this, they're like, okay, maybe I'm burnt out. Maybe I'm not. Can you kind of tell them the story that they're telling themselves so they can be like, Oh my God, help. Yeah. That's such a great question. And I think about when I was, you know, in my deepest burnout is one of the things was severe anxiety. I was pulling into the parking garage at my job and pulling into my spot, doing the sign of the cross and praying that today would be different and hoping that when I walked in. To the pediatric emergency room that I had been walking into for a years, that it would magically look different, that the people would look different. The staff would look different, the patients would look different and it would be a different kind of day. And I think what I realized after was that if you're expecting everything on the outside to change, to help you, that's where you have to stop and say. I have to look within first because the chances of me walking into the ER and having it look different and having the staff look different was zero. I mean, I was expecting like a miracle because I was feeling pain and I was it manifest that you cannot manifest that one? Exactly. And so I had to start looking within at myself and saying, you know, what, what could I do? Where am I in my journey? And, you know, the thoughts that, that someone might be having, the thoughts that I had at that time was. Is this what I want to be doing is this where I want to be putting my time and energy. It's not making me happy, but, but what else could I do? And I think that's where a lot of us get caught up. I think in whatever career you're in is that, you know, you've been here doing it five, 10, 15, 20 years, and you think maybe I should do something else, but then right away, Your mind is like, girl, what else would you do? And then I just think, okay, I guess just stay in this miserable. Meanwhile, not taking the time and energy to say, how could I pivot a little bit? Maybe it's just a little bit of a pivot. Maybe it's not leaving my entire career, closing down my business, going back to school to get another degree it's pivoting. And so for me, When I was in that point in my life, I mean, this went on for months and it culminated on a day or there was a patient who tried to harm himself. He was my patient. It resulted in me crying, my new nurse crying and. Me going home that night, thinking something has to change change. So how could I possibly pivot? And for me, I started looking at other jobs within the hospital that would be in alignment with who I was as a pediatric nurse. And I applied to work. On a different unit in the children's hospital. And it took about four months for the transition for me to leave the ER and go work where I am now pediatric same day surgery. It was just a little pivot in my career. Sure. There was fear there I've you know, am I. You know, going to be able to do this job, you know, will I be good on this unit? Will I be able to learn everything, you know, will I get along with everybody? You know? And it was just a little pivot. Cause I feel like so many times Kristen fear stops us. From taking that next step, but we all know, you know what, what's outside of our comfort zone, that's where the magic happens. So it's learning and trusting within yourself to break through, because I could have gone to that unit. And if things didn't work out, at least I could have looked back and said, okay, well maybe it's time for me to pivot again and go to a different unit or. You know, potentially leave the hospital. I was working in. I feel like if we. Do these little steps in life where we pivot when the next thing comes up and we're thinking, Oh man, should I pivot? We can look back at our own evidence based research. I always say, I can look back in my life and say, girl, remember in 2014, when you decided to leave the ER and go work and same day member, you did that. And guess what? You didn't die. You did it and sure it was uncomfortable learning something new. You know, there were a couple of different things to tweak, but now I've been on that unit almost six years, five and a half years. And I can look back now and say, you know, the next time in my life, where I'm feeling certain way, and I want to pivot. I can just give myself that little nudge of you got this girl. It's okay. You can do it. Um, you, um, pivot incredibly powerful. So to kind of wrap this up a little bit, To the very tired woman that's listened to this. Who's been in the industry, maybe she's new and maybe she's not, um, dog trainer or whatnot. What's the one thing you want her to walk away with to that one person. If we were, if she was in a room that you were sitting with her right now on, she's probably on a trail or she's probably in her car right now, appointments that it actually like makes me emotional to think about it. I get kind of choked up because. It's almost going back to that former version of me that was feeling the burnout, the anxiety, the depression, and what I want to say to her is you don't have to add one more thing onto your plate. You are enough. Exactly as you are today, with everything that you have, and you were made uniquely to walk the path that's been paved for you, like your goals and dreams. When you think about what your goals and dreams are. My old business coach, Amber Lilya strong would always say if the dream is in you, it's for you. So you don't have to look outside anymore. You don't have to fill up your plate anymore. You don't need one more certification. You have everything you already need, and you need to start looking at what you already have, the power that you have in yourself. Nourish. What you already have going on everything you've already accomplished, nourish all of that to continue to grow as the amazing successful woman you are right now today. Mike drop. Boom, boom. That was ratable. Oh, Katie. Thank you. I appreciate it. I, again, I know you're busy and I can appreciate you taking the time to come on. And I know this is probably a day off for you, so this, it means a lot and it's an incredible honor to have you on here. Spending your time. It likes the supplier. It totally does. So I appreciate your, the first podcast. Interview I've ever been on this. So thank you to you and your community. I'm just, I'm honestly so honored. So Katie, it has a podcast, everybody. So Katie, tell us a little bit about your podcast, where people can find you. I will link everything of course naturally, but Katie has a top rated podcast. And I want everybody to go check it out. So Katie, what's her name? Your podcast. Thank you. It's called, yeah. Thriving joy with Katie Carol. And you spell my name? K a T I E. Last name Carol, C a R R O L L. And it's basically a women's empowerment podcast where I talk about. All things, mind, body, spirit. But I also bring in women entrepreneurs that are empowering themselves and those around them so that we can empower each other to rise up and live into everything that we've, we're dreaming about being. Hm. I saw that you had Elion last week and I was like, Ooh, I gotta listen to that. I love Ellie. She's freaking, she's a powerful woman entrepreneur. Talk about Paul. Totally. She is. Um, I'll put the podcast links in here and then Katie people want to learn a little bit more about you. What's where can they go? Check that out? Thank you. I have my website is Katie Carol coaching.com and I also on Instagram. I'm Katie cow coaching. I hang out a lot on Instagram and I'm also on Facebook at Katie Cal coaching. Awesome. Now, do you have any Facebook communities people can join, or if people want to learn a little bit more about you, how you can help them. So the women listening to this, how can we we'll go with you directly? Sure. Thank you for asking. Yes, definitely. I have a Facebook group, Katie Cal coaching. So I would love for. Anybody to come over and join our group. I would love that. And also, if anybody wants to talk about burnout, mind, body, spirit, they can always schedule a free discovery call with me on my website and just set up the time and date and we'll make it happen. Awesome. All right, guys, I'm going to encourage everybody to go do everything we just listed. Uh Katie's you know, I, like I said, I know pers I personally know Katie for the last. Okay. For a while now, I would say eight years, almost a decade. And you know, she's not just somebody who's like talking the talk. She talks, the talk, walks the talk and walks the walk or whatever my dyslexia is kicking in, but she generally is. Kind kind human being. I've seen her, I've saw her develop over the last couple of years too. And you know, I personally spent some time with her in the, in a gym capacity to know us and we get to see the real people and she's just a beautiful person and kindred soul inside out. So I highly encourage everybody to go at least give her a podcast, listen to give her a nice little rating too. I appreciate that. So, Katie. Again, thank you so much. Send my love to you nephews as well. And to Aaron and Tim, I appreciate them. I still follow everything. They are a bad ass, couple of themselves. That was by the way, that was my first curse word in this section, higher episode, this is a new one for me. I love it. I love it, Kristen. Thank you so much for having me on you've always, truly supported me and been a cheerleader for me. So I really appreciate that and bringing me to your community. I'm so excited. So thank you for this. Awesome. All right guys, take care. Bye. Hey there, thank you for listening to another bad-ass episode of my Jiro dog business. If you haven't already subscribed. What are you waiting for? Oh my God. Go and subscribe now. So you don't miss out on any of our content packed dog business jam sessions, plus special offers that I'm going to only be sharing with my amazing dog business entrepreneurial podcast listeners. Now, if you've enjoyed this episode, Be sure to leave a five star kick ass review. So more amazing dog business owners, just like yourself, confine us, and starts to transform and disrupt their businesses and their lives unapologetically. And if you feel so inclined, feel free to tag me on Instagram with a screenshot of this episode and holler at your girl. I'm at dog Walker, coach. You can find me dog Walker, coach, and I'll pop up and I'll give you a special shout out. All right guys, until next time. Bye.