In the 80th, yes, 80TH episode of the Mind Your Own Dog Business podcast, Kristen Lee sits down with the leading dog business branding agency Dox Design and its founder, the amazing Kaila Piepkow.
Kaila joins Kristen to talk about all things visual branding in the pet industry and for pet professionals and why branding for dog businesses is overdue for branding revolutions.
What you'll learn in this episode:
It's time to put your big branding panties on for your dog business; let's do this.
How to connect with Kaila & Dox Design/Resources:
Join Design Support For Small Businesses
Dog Biz School Links & Resources:
In the 80th, yes, 80TH episode of the Mind Your Own Dog Business podcast, Kristen Lee sits down with the leading dog business branding agency Dox Design and its founder, the amazing Kaila Piepkow.
Kaila joins Kristen to talk about all things visual branding in the pet industry and for pet professionals and why branding for dog businesses is overdue for branding revolutions.
What you'll learn in this episode:
It's time to put your big branding panties on for your dog business; let's do this.
How to connect with Kaila & Dox Design/Resources:
Join Design Support For Small Businesses
Dog Biz School Links & Resources:
All right. So what I'm going to do is I usually do like a three, two, one, and then I just do it, um, introduction, and then we'll go from there. Perfect. All right. Cool. Well, hello, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of the mind, your own motherfucking dog biz podcast, the leading a pet business podcast for entrepreneurs that happened to be in the business of motherfucking dogs. Now, today I'm excited because I always start to talk about a little bit of branding and I always chat about like how excited I am around it. But like a lot of people don't understand, like, I really geek out on branding stuff, especially around theory. And I happened to find somebody who is as. Uh, amazing and as geeky and also is an Instagram three around branding. So today I have a very, very, very special guest. I've been following her for a little while. Well, actually for, I've been stalking you Kayla for about a year and a half now, I think at this point around you're printing stuff. I have Kayla from docs, design, a pet industry and branding, uh, agencies. So, hello, Kayla, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. Awesome. So Kayla is, is here to talk to me today about one of my favorite topics as always branding for dog professionals and pet professionals. And this is going to be one of those where we, I gave her mission to kale. I'm like, you can be mean to my audience. Let's lay the smack down about more. Why your brand, your dog was brand goes much more deeper than a logo. Cause I know that drives Kayla and her team in San. It drives dog to school and same. And why we should really put branding at the forefront and prioritize and your dog business. And no, basically as the title of this episode is put your big brand panties on and step into an elevated, a motherfucking elevated brand as you mature as a business owner. So, Kayla, thank you so much for joining me. I'm honored to have you here. I know you guys are insanely busy. You guys are always revealing new brands. So I appreciate the time today. Of course. Yes. Well, I'm happy to talk to more pet professionals about branding, cause like you said, it's needed in the industry. So I can't wait to chat more about it. You can't just do a logo on Canva. No, you can't. I know the inner graphic designer and he was like, Oh, Canva. It's it's good. Right. It's purpose. But definitely not for logo design. I feel like that is, uh, we'll dive more into this I'm sure. But I'm always like cringing every time I see someone do a logo in Canva for sure. Oh. Or get the Fiverr logo too as well. And sometimes like the fiber logo, people don't even take like their watermark off of it. And then you see it on other people's stuff and you're like, Exactly funny story. There was this online quote, unquote dog summit or whatever, and I'm just going to I'm of course. I'm just going to make fun of people naturally. That's how I do it. And they had this logo designed and I guess their designer sent like the, you know, like when it has a transparent background, but it's like the, uh, the gray and Brown, like white checks. Oh, the checker Mark. Yeah. Yeah. They were using that for their logo. I was like, Oh my God, what the hell? Oh no, no, no. Yeah. I mean, I mean, not to even like. Go a little further with that. Like the legal implications with it. I mean, legally, you can't really use the illustrations on Canva as a logo. You can get like big trouble for that. There's like copyright all of that. So, yeah, I just, before we even dive into, I don't use Canva for logos, that's really just the, just of it. That's so fucking cute. That's so true. We just, um, we have a new dude that's been kind of helping us out with some, uh, logo stuff, like on our back end. And he's, he's really interesting too. Cause he's been having those conversations and like, like guys, like you cannot use the type of like logo and these designs and whatever, and like these like little graphics and vectors because there is copyright law and people do get fucked over with it too. Yeah. Yep. So Kayla, I'm going to ask you a few questions. So my audience gets to know you because they need to know you. How long have you been in the business of dogs? Yeah. So we actually just hit our three year Mark in January. Um, so about three years ago, I kind of started, um, it wasn't doxed design yet. I was freelancing under my own name. I was Kayla parent at the time. It was before I was married. Um, and kind of just started freelancing as a designer, um, outside of the agency I was working at just cause I needed like some creative freedom. I was doing all the grunt work at the agency I was working at. Um, and. Naturally, I am a dog, mom of three doxins and I was just kind of ingrained in the dog mom world where I was living at the time. And my first few clients were the dog trainer I was using, um, the pet store that I would visit for my dogs to like get their food and stuff. And then the groomer that did, um, all of my dog's haircuts. So from there, it kind of just. Spiraled, you know, us dog, people like to stick together. Um, so all of my clients just knew more dog people and I was like, Hey, um, I think I have something here. And I was really noticing that like in the pet space, there wasn't really that sophistication of Brandon. And I was like, okay, I think I could do something with this. So around the two year Mark, I decided to make it a. Full business, branded myself, which was really hard designer. Um, and yeah, so for about the past year and a half, we've been operating under docs, design and, uh, was able to quit my job and make it my full-time thing about two years ago. And it's been a crazy ride ever since. Isn't it funny when you're so close to your own brand, you can't brand yourself. I am like the worst at designing anything for myself, my website, like, yeah. I'm the horrible at it. Yeah. It was funny. Cause we have we're we're in the process of redoing our website. We haven't for like, since October of last year, it's been down, we have like this dummy site up and it's hilarious. It's just like there. So we can run as like legally and we are working this website designer and I got put on the project naturally and I was like, I can't do this. Like, I don't know what to talk about. It's like the stain, like the cobbler's children don't have shoes or whatever. Like I always am like, yeah, the designer, like can't design her own website because she can't get out of my own way. Exactly. Well, you're so close to the freaking problem. That's why we had to re Jody it. And I'm like, I can't do it. Like even like for our update a logo, I'm like, I can't even think about this. Like, I don't even know what to do. And I think that like, whenever I talk to my clients, like anyone who coming to me as an inquiry, I'm like, listen, I understand, because I can't brand myself, which is why you need to like, hire a professional, get outside eyes. Cause you're too close. I know what you're going through. Right. That's freaking amazing. So, Kayla, what would you say is your super power. Um, Oh, that's a good question. I think for sure. Um, so I am the now creative director of docs design. So when I first started, I was the designer, but I've kind of stepped back into more of that leader role and I definitely think creative direction, um, like editing, being able to see the bigger vision is my super power. Um, I, I like to say like a business would come to me and like, give me like. Three words of what they want for their brand. And I already got like mood boards spinning in my mind. Like I'm really good at visually translating and being kind of like that overall larger vision of anything. Visual. Nice, nice. I love that. It's like when you go into like brand visionary mode and you start to put like the brand boards and the mood boards together, it's like, you'd go into this weird like translate state and then it's like, Boom. And it all comes. Yeah. It's like my favorite thing to do. I can like whip out a color palette and like a mood board and like 30 minutes. It's really? Yeah, it's become definitely my superpower, I would say love it. So what is the one of the last things you have accomplished that made you incredibly proud as a person in the pet industry? Oh, I love this. So actually, um, not a lot of people know this, um, our packaging design for one of the clients that we Brie rebranded over the summer. Um, they're called Sandy and skipper. They are, um, a candle beachy brand, um, and they give back a lot of their, um, proceeds to animal shelter, um, was just featured on the dieline and the dieline is kind of this, um, So like kind of like the top dog, like aggregate of packaging design, it's really hard to get in there and they stumbled across our portfolio and like all the packaging design we did for the candles and they just wrote up a whole article about it and publish it last week. Actually, I haven't even really shared it yet. So really exciting. I feel like it's a big milestone for us. To be published with some of those bigger agencies on that website. So I feel very proud. That's fucking awesome. And I know for a fact that like packaging design, it's like you have the graphic design, you have logos, but packaging design is like a whole other freaking animal at this point. Yeah. Yeah. It's like one of our favorite things to do too. So I just feel, yeah, I feel really accomplished that we were able to take that small business and give them so much, uh, attention like that. That's awesome. Do you have a favorite quote? I do. So I saw this question and I was like, Oh, I have so many favorite quotes, but I have one that's really resonated with me, I think, as a small business owner. Um, and the quote is the day you plant the seed is not the day you eat the fruit and. Yeah, I think that one really resonated with me because as you mentioned, I am an anagram three and I don't know about everyone listening in knows about anagrams, but anagram threes are like overachievers, like, like to see results. And I think so there's like two parts of this quote that I like though. I like it as myself as a business owner to remind myself to like stay consistent with my business, you know, keep putting in the hard work and the benefits will come. But I also like to remind my clients. That, um, branding is just like one part of the small business machine and our team will give you the tools and, you know, if you stay consistent with it, it will work, but it's not going to happen overnight. Like it's not just like a quick fix solution. You really have to like, keep nurturing that seed to like, get that big business tree to grow. So I really, really liked that quote. And I reminds me every time I feel like I'm not getting resolved. Just keep watering the seed, just keep doing it, you know, keep fertilizing and keep watering it, keep tending to it. And I know you're feeling again as the Instagram three person. Uh, yeah, it's hard when you're a producer and overachiever and you're like, I want results right out. Exactly. All right. So Kayla, I want to ask you, I know you, you, you started to hit on it a little bit during the conversation at the beginning of the conversation, excuse me. We have allergies here in North Carolina. It is the POL and we call it the pollinating appear here. Uh, what inspired you to jump in becoming a full service designer and agency for the overall pet industry? Yeah. So I kind of touched on it a little bit, but I can dive a little deeper into that. Um, so I used to work at a pretty big agency. They're called people design. They're one of the top design agencies here in the Midwest. Um, and I worked. With big brands, you know, like target Georgia, Pacific, things like that. So I was able to really see like how these big brands value branding and invest in it and, you know, kind of the things that does for their business. Um, so like I said, I kind of stumbled into the dog world, but I quickly realized just from my agency background, that, that wasn't really being translated to small businesses, like in a budget friendly way. And then on the flip side of that, The more and more. I started looking into dog brands. I was like, wow. Some of these are horrible. We really need to like level up. I think now like being in the dog business, uh, for like three years, I've just in this three-year period have seen more and more brands taking branding seriously. So that's good. Um, but you know, there's still a lot of people, um, that just. They, it wasn't to the level that it needed to be. And I was like, you know, I've worked with these big brands. I have the experience. I know our chain could put out the quality of this work that these other agencies are giving to big brands. And I really felt like there was, you know, this niche, obviously with me being a dog mom, and I just loved dog people. Like we instantly go along and click, like I understand their pet obsession. Um, but I just felt there was a gap there of like the level of design, um, for these businesses. And I really thought our team could provide and feel better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's really, you hit on a really important point. Like over the last few years, there has been like that, that starting point of like, okay, well maybe my logo. My brand goes beyond the logo and start really like cleaning that up and having that sophisticated field that's geared toward the dog owning market, like as a pet professional. Right. And what's also interesting too, is even like the bigger brands, like I'm talking about franchises and such that like, some of them even have horrible branding and it's just, it's really interesting. It's really freaking interesting. Do you have a favorite agency that like you, like, like a world renowned agency that you like or anything like that? Oh, yeah. There's so many. I mean, a pentagram, obviously they are like the Holy Mecca of design, like Paula Shire, all of them. They were like amazing. Um, they're, they're always the one I go to. There's also one in Chicago called grip design. Um, and it's funny because I feel like after I got in the car, Pet world about like the two year Mark, I started noticing all these big agencies I follow, like started getting pet clients and I'm like, Oh, okay. So this is becoming a thing now. Like, okay. Like each one that I follow has like, um, pentagram, I think did pet plate, which is like a huge pet brand now. Um, you know, and so I'm just like, okay. I'm like, people are understanding and getting this now. That's fricking awesome. I I'm going to go a little bit more corporate. I like McKinsey, honestly. I know. Yeah. Yeah. They have, I, um, I have a, I have a mentor over at McKinsey and she, she kind of leaked. Cause like I said, I'm more theory and like methodology based and like quality. Qualitative research and everything like that. And I actually really like McKinsey, cause it has like more of like a, like a different style feel it's corporate-y, but it's totally different. And there's a McKinsey branch over where I, where I'm at in Durham. So I am very, very blessed to be able to connect with somebody there and talk about the type of stuff. But I do like grip too. That's really good stuff as well. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So this is going to be a loaded question, but, um, When do you think it's time for pet professionals to essentially put on their big branding panties? Like when is it time to like really step into and really invest back into their brand? Oh man. Yeah. So that is a loaded question. Um, I mean, obviously if you can do it like right at the start, because when we see, you know, brands that are invested in their branding upfront and earlier, it's helping them. Grow faster. It's just, you know, if you're niching and you are visually communicating to your ideal audience, you're going to grow faster. Obviously, though, I understand that not everyone can do that. And you know, I was the same way when I was first starting my business. I was kind of piecemealing it together. Um, so I kind of see the people who come to us. And are ready to grow is there's kind of two fold to it. Um, there's the product people. Um, and I would say usually it is when they are ready to start taking their product as seriously as it is. Um, and you know, if they have a quality product, but maybe their branding isn't to the quality it needs to be, and they're having trouble wholesaling it, they're having trouble with retailers grabbing it because their packaging designer, their branding just. It, you know, it's too much podge. It wouldn't stand out on the shelf. Um, so typically for like product companies, when they are ready to put the spotlight on their product and like actually start taking this thing seriously, getting it wholesaled retailed is, you know, when it's like, okay, it's time to invest in the brand. On the flip side of that, the service companies, um, Is when they really want to start charging premium prices, um, and, you know, differentiating themselves from all their competitors. I mean, you start out for dog-walker for example, and you're kind of just winging it. Um, when I see people who are really ready to put on their big girl panties is when, you know, they're wanting to expand their team, they're wanting to expand their service area. They maybe want to expand into the product market. They want to raise their prices, you know, having. A brand allows you to charge those premium prices and like, you know, expand and do things on it. Um, so those are kind of the two ways that, that we see it, you know, and like I said, ideally, you want to invest in your brand, um, somewhat in the beginning, but. You know, like I said, I understand, but what we end up seeing is actually it's more expensive for people when they're sitting on their pre-made logo for 10 years and they've branded their vehicle wrap, they've branded their, their business card. And then they're like, Oh, it's almost just like too hard to rebrand now because I'm going to have to redo all this. Stuff. And that kind of becomes a barrier for them almost to rebrand, and it's almost more expensive to wait it out. Um, so, you know, I see it for clients, you know, when you are at that like rapid growth period, like consider rebranding then, because it is going to be more costly and time consuming. If you just like, keep holding on. Yeah, absolutely. Abso-fucking-lutely definitely. So as somebody that does a lot of branding work, uh, cause dog school does do a lot of branding work. And Kayla knows this. Uh, we do more of like the theory, emotional branding, pillars, you know, getting dog trainers, dog walkers, to articulate who they are and step into that. One thing that frustrates you. The hell out of me and we've already hit on that is when people assume a brand is just a logo or a color palette or a pattern or what not, because like one thing I always say to people when we talk about branding is your brand, is everything, everything is brands, right. Can we talk a little bit more about why we want the listeners of this episode to go beyond the logo with this branding conversation? Yeah, definitely. So, um, I don't really do the strategy page, which is why I love that you guys do that. I mean, obviously we do a little bit of it to like guide our visual decisions. Um, but we really do focus on the whole visual side of brand and yeah. What we kind of say is the brands more than the logo? Okay. I actually think the logo is like the least, I agree in part, because you can, you can take a logo. I kind of like use this example. You could take a logo and like plug it into like four or five different designs and the elements around it is what's going to give off that vibe for your brand. So we say a brand, you know, is the whole visual toolkit is what we call it. Um, so your copy. Your tone of voice, your images are using colors, typography patterns, illustration, it's all the visual elements, plus like copy and tone working together to give us what we call your brand tone, which I think is like the most important thing. So it's kind of like, you know, what's your vibe brand, Dubai, you know, Um, and from there that should be guiding all the visual decisions outside of just the logo, because you could have like, this really cool, like dog illustration logo, but if you plug it into like a super feminine, like pink with like hearts and sparkles, but then you take that same logo and plug it into like this really like muted color palette with like a leaves, you know, that's going to give up two very different vibes and that logo is just like a small piece of it. Um, So, yeah, we really focus, you know, when we work with our clients on the visual toolkit, we call it and giving them the tools to be able to build on their brand, um, to accurately communicate who they are, um, you know, build off of that story, build off of what makes them unique and making sure that they see. Stand out from all their competitors. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that one. It's like, when you think about your overall brand, it's not like just a logo or whatever. I think about it as like, you want to be able to tell a story within the first three seconds, three to five seconds, somebody looks at, you listens to you. I read something about you. And like, that's one of the things that. We see a lot of people getting very, like, discombobulated on, like, if you're not really clear on your messaging or like not really clear on your overall brand aesthetic and like what it feels like and what it sounds like or whatever, you're, you're a dog on the, market's going to get confused too. Like, so if you look at Kayla's, Kayla's, I'm going to use our two brands as kind of like side by side comparison. Like I look at, I look at docks and I'm like, Ooh, I like them. They're young. Okay. Um, I'm a millennial too. I'm an old millennial. I'm an older millennial, but they're young. They're into like, Uh, they're into more of like the millennial field. They have a lot of fun patterns. Like when I look at doc's design, I'm like, Oh shit, they be really fucking fun to work with. You know, that's the vibe you give out. Like, you guys are fricking smart, you're a powerful team of women. But then if you look at Doug with school, some people are like, Ooh, they're kind of like scary. You know what I mean? But they're more of like, we don't like, we don't like have like the whole millennial pink going on. We have a lot of dark colors. We have a lot of truth. Intensity is what we like to put off kind of, but we also like to highlight our powerful team. Right. So, what I see happening with a lot of professionals is people try to start to like find an identity because a lot of times too, I, I talked about this on other podcasts. It's like, we like to replicate systems that worked for other people. So I see people pulling from different like brands and whatever, and it's like, no, with your own branding pillars with your own, like. Branding strategy and like getting everything all created and your identity, and like also gearing it towards your niche niche market. You create your own overall brand. Right. So that's the thing and it's not, and people, and the thing is too, it's like dog owners, like, especially now, like dog, mom, culture is fucking huge and dog monkey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of hit on a few things there. So I like how you like compared the colors, because I think that's one thing that I always say to my clients. It's like, listen, you have like three seconds, like you said, to get someone's attention half the time. They're not even reading the copy. So your graphics should be, you know, your quote you're sharing on Instagram, your ad that you're sharing on Facebook, the billboard that you have up your storage. Signage based on all the visual cues should be saying what you want it to stay within that three seconds before they even read the words. Um, so love that you said that, and then the second thing that you, you kind of touched on was like this dog, mom culture, which I agree and kind of people drawing inspiration off other businesses. I think actually. Specifically in the past year, I have seen just like the explosiveness of like everyone, like starting a pet accessory company here, like a dog blog. And there's been a lot of copying and going on. So yeah, I think that's really important to like, yes, draw inspiration, but always make it your own. Like always, always, always make it your own and make sure it's like on brand. That's why it's important to kind of go through like the process that we take our clients through to like, figure out, like, what is that, like? What is your vibe like? Yeah. You really like that quote that someone used that's cool. You could probably use it too, but you gotta make it your own, you know, you gotta, you gotta put your unique brand spin on it. Yup. As a designer in like a branding agency, you probably get really riled up when people copy violet copper, copyright laws with you. Don't you so upset. So as also an Instagram three, two, you go on like Godzilla rage. I had somebody go funny story. I had somebody go through my podcast a couple, like a couple months ago and yeah. She created all like very similar episodes. Like basically the person wrote down my episodes and created like, just kind of like changed the paraphrasing around. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, I'm just, I'm like, are you serious? Like, are you fucking serious? Like, it's so great. Like I'm flattered when people like draw inspiration and like, do it better or make it their own. I'm like, yes. But there's a difference between inspiration and imitation. Yeah. Got it. Kills me. Yeah. And also too, the dog mom culture, which is really, it's really interesting because like I see a lot of the doggone culture coming up and like, when I think a dog, mom culture, I'll tell you what I think of this is my thoughts of it. I don't have anything wrong with it, even though I'm married to a doctor and I work with dog trainers, dog, mom, culture is okay. Place that we all need to capitalize on. Um, they have the doodles, I see the pinks, the blues, you know, kind of like almost like a softer approach to the brand, but also kind of some bad-ass empowerment to it around nude does a really good job at that. And I know you branded them dogs at term city. Yeah. Yeah. I love Lindsay. She's so great. Yeah. Their brand is just awesome. And she all she does. She does. And I think kind of what you hit on with that brand, which obviously we helped them with a little bit is they took their unique spin on it. Like their coastal city. We made sure we played off of that with the brand. They have a whole Maryland dog mom, like apparel section and they do, they, you know, they relate it back to that. Um, which I really do think has helped them because they're, they put their uni spin on it. So, yeah. Um, well actually, yeah, yeah. I just had an interview with one of our clients, modern companion. They are a pet accessory company and she had kind of said something to me that really resonated. She said, you know what? Like. So many people like to think that the dog, mom, like industry is saturated. There's so many pet accessory companies. She's like, but it's really not. Like, she's like, if you make it your own, she's like, yeah. There's like so many pet accessory companies. But like I launched my business like two years ago, you know, and we helped brand her and everything. And this is what she was telling us. She was like, and. Just from me being able to have a unique point of view. Like I grew so much and I attracted the, my type of dog mom, which I loved what she said. Like not every dog, mom is the same. Okay. We have like the edgy tattoo dog. We have like the suburban, like dog mom who loves Joanna Gaines. Like, you know, they're very different. And if you're able to like figure out like who your dog mom is, and then visually. Communicate that you will attract your people? Absolutely, absolutely. It's so funny. I was doing, um, I did a brand new VIP a couple months ago. Well, actually in the summer of 2020, and it was for a company over in, uh, round rock, Texas called savvy dog savvy, dog training and development. And we were doing that niche because they wanted a savvy dog, mom and I was reading out like, The kind of like those, those things, like how do we attract her certain colors and things like that and everything I was reading out and like using the word she would, she would say and everything like that at the bottom of it, I was like, it sounds like a Karen, but it's not a Karen. Oh my God. I love it. And I remember Andrew and Brittany being like, Oh my God, that's hilarious because that's exactly true. It sounds like a Karen, but it's not a Karen actually. So like the kind of what we do too, which helps with like, I like, um, our ideal audience we'll like ask our clients, like before we dive in, like, who's your ideal audience, but we like to think about them visually obviously, because we're visual people. And the one question that our team always asks, which really helps people think we're crazy is what does their kitchen look like? Because let me tell you what a kitchen could tell you a lot about a person. So we're always like, okay, like what would this person's kitchen look like? And then we like, we'll kind of like, Grabbed like pictures of like what their kitchen, like what they're wearing and stuff and thinking about it in that way starts to help with some like visual cues of like what resonates with them Helia. So KA, uh, Kayla, what does your kitchen look like? Oh gosh, it's so funny. So my, we just bought a new house and we're renovating it. So right now my kitchen looks like it's stuck in the nineties, but we are actually currently in the process of renovating unit. We have someone coming over this weekend actually, and it is going to be a midst. Century modern with like grandma shabby, chic green cabinets, vintage thrifted. Yeah. I like that. I liked that a lot. What's your kitchen look like? Oh God. So my kitchen is in the process of also potentially getting redesigned very quickly. So right now it is dark, dark, dark, dark, like mahogany Brown cabinets. Uh, yeah, with. Like a grant, a light granite countertop. We have the industrial style kind of like appliances. So we have like the Viking and stuff like that. And then like, we have that like longer spout that goes into our saying, and then what it's going to look like. This is going to sound really basic is going to look like it's going to be white cabinets. Blue center Island, uh, quartz tops with gold fixtures in black. Love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a fight with my husband. Same, same, same. We were putting like a really like cool pattern tile and the kitchen. He was like, this is going to be out of style. And like two years, I'm like, no, it's yeah. You were like, no, fuck you. It's staying whatever. We'll just redo it. I don't care. yeah. He's been fighting with me to get like the gray like that, you know, cause like, you know, grays and like so much. And like he's been fighting with me to get like those gray washed floors and I'm like, okay. Yeah, I kind of like the dark floors, but anyway. Awesome. All right. Well, uh, Kayla, I keep wanting to call you Kasha for some reason. I do apologize on that one. So Kayla, so this has been awesome. I appreciate you. Where can people find you see what you have to offer? Like, what are some of the things you offer as an agency? Yeah, definitely. So our two main services are our signature brand new package. So I'm what I just said. Like we did for dogs, term city, modern companion. Um, this is really working with our team to put your big girl brand panties on. Um, so we will work with you to really establish a visual style. You'll leave with us. Full logo, suite colors, patterns, illustrations, social media, the whole nine yards. Um, so that is really our bread and butter is really giving everyone the visual toolkit they need for their brand. Um, so that's our signature branding program and you can find that at our website, which is docs dlx.design, um, and kind of the second part of what we do is packaging design. And I know we hadn't talked a ton on that. Um, But really is a passion of ours, especially for pet products. Um, so we do everything from mailer box design to product backers, uh, pop displays, you name it globally, dog treat packaging. Um, so that's really, really good for us. Um, and then we also just to kind of help the pet industry in general, we'll have our free Facebook group, um, it's called design support for small businesses. Um, in there we just. Provide design freebies. Um, we do each month, our team will illustrate and design social media graphics that the group can use. Um, we do monthly interviews, quick Canva tips. Um, and then each Wednesday we have our design school, which is an open forum where anyone can post any design they're working on or ask any design questions. And our team will answer it for them for free. So some design advice for free from them. Ooh, that sounds awesome. That's freaking awesome. And what's the name of your Facebook group too? Um, it's called design support for small businesses. And then what I'll do for everybody, I'll put the links in so you guys can go directly to it. Well, Kayla, it's been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate you taking the time. Cause I know you run a busy, busy, busy, busy branding agency for pet pros and you've got a whole team, the managed too. So I appreciate you coming on. And then also you're going to be speaking at a pet sitters conference. Soon. Yes, I am. I don't know if they've announced it yet, but yeah, no, it's fine. I think it's fine. Yeah, we're going to be sorry. we're leading a Cambo workshop and then we are also going to be one of the speakers, chatting all about branding your biz and kind of walking through the process of how we do that. Awesome. Now I know throw this one last random question at you because we're having such a good time here. What is one thing that when it comes to branding that you want every single one of these people listening to today to walk away with? Well, that's good. I think it's really important. And one thing that I sometimes just want to shake clients is the imitation first, uh, inspiration thing. I just think stay true to yourself and like, Don't feel like you have to do what everyone else is doing. Like if you have like some crazy off the wall idea, like, Oh, I'm a super edgy dog mom. And like, I love tattoos. And like, I want my pattern to be like this cool, like tattooed look. And someone's like, Oh, but like in the pet industry, I don't think that would fly. I'm just going to like, go for pop prints. Like, no, no, that's crazy. Cool idea. Like it's going to make you. Stand out. Yeah. But it's also going to attract those same type of people. I just hate when I see people shut down an idea because they're like, Oh, that is industry standard. Or like, Oh, that makes me seem, you know, unprofessional. Like actually our, our clients over our dogs that term today, she said it best. We had like a little interview with her and she was like, you know, like when I want to brand with someone that wasn't you, they were really trying to push me into this like professional look. They really wanted me to like be professional and I kept telling them no, like we are. Fun. Like we're a party brand. And they kept telling me that that wouldn't resonate with dog parents because they want their dogs to feel safe with the dog Walker. They don't want their dogs. And so she, yeah, no. So she ended up not working with the designer and hiring us instead. And we like totally understood her vision and brought it to life and like, She was right. It worked. So like, don't shut down that idea or like, feel like you have to be doing like industry standard, you know, like be different with it. I definitely just like stay true to your brand. Yeah, absolutely. It's so funny. Cause there's so many different definitions of professionalism and like we've, you know, as dog with school, like we've been told, I've been told I'm not professional. It's like, bitch, do you know who the fuck we are? And it's like, just because we curse in our team has tattoos and yeah. Sometimes there's a penis joke in there too as well. That's from our founder. Like that's on her, but you know what I mean? So it's like, you're like, you, you keep saying your vibe is going to attract the right people into it. You know what I mean? Like they're going to attract right people. And that's what I also, I think you've done such a great job at jobs, dogs, a charm city, by the way, too. It's just, I love them. I love their brand. I love their merch. I love everything that you guys have worked together with them. Lindsay is fucking dope too. I had her on the podcast a couple months ago. Um, yeah, I know she said it to me. She's like skip two, uh, one minute and 30 seconds. And we fan girl about you for like 30 bucks. Oh, it was so funny. I know. Cause we did, we did. That's why I was like, I gotta get Kayla on. I got to get Kaylon. All right. Well thank you so much, Kayla, for taking the time today and I appreciate you and I hope every single one of the motherfuckers listening or reach out to you or at least follow you on where can they follow you on the socials? Oh, yeah, Instagram's our big one. Um, so that is also, our username is docs, dux.design. That is where we do all our brand reveals. As you mentioned, Kristin. So each, um, brand that we are doing, so we're doing like for this month or last month, I know Instagram is the best place. Uh, to kind of, you know, watch the process. We share our clients that we're working on, we share sneak, peeks, and then we share the whole reveal to you. We kind of, you know, we're really transparent and like to give everyone the whole behind the scenes look. So if you want to check it out, head on over to Instagram. Awesome. All right. Well, Kayla, it's been an honor. Thank you so much for everything today. I appreciate it. Yeah, of course. All right, I'll talk to you guys later. Bye bye. Perfect. Thank you so much. That was awesome.