S4 Ep #8 How Books Can Change the World with Nikki from The Bookish Mindset

In this episode I'm talking to the founder of the Bookish Mindset, Nikki.  The Bookish Mindset  offers monthly book subscription boxes alternating between a fiction and non-fiction book each month. At its heart the business is all about amplifying marginalised voices and supporting small businesses. 

I loved this chat with Nikki. We talk about:

•  the mental health benefits of reading including how it helps her with her own anxiety;
• the lack of queer love in Disney growing up;
• the fear that comes with starting a new project;
• shining a light on more joy and more diversity.

If you're a book lover who is passionate about changing the world, then this episode is for you. 

You can find out more about The Bookish Mindset Here and connect here: The Bookish Mindset Website | Instagram

About your Host - Lisa Pascoe

I’m Lisa and I’m an Intuitive Life Coach. I am on a mission to help empaths, highly sensitive women and LGBTQ+ folks to slow down and prioritise their wellbeing so that they feel more present in their lives, experience more joy and live life on purpose.

I do this through 1:1 coaching, workshops and nourishing circles. When I'm at my happiest, you'll find me swimming in the sea. I live on the South Coast with my wife Bekky, and miniature sausage dog Henry.

You can find me here: Website | Instagram | Facebook

Love the podcast? Here are three ways you can show your support:

1. Rate and review - this helps more listeners find us.
2. Share with friends and on socials #braveheartsrisingpodcast
3. Buy me a virtual cuppa over on Kofi

>>Check out the full shownotes here<<

Tags: Creativity

Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

Hello and welcome to brave hearts rising a podcast dedicated to the empaths deep V those dreamers and rebels of the world. For so long, we've been told that we must work hard, not make a first and put everybody else's needs. First, we have learned to ignore our body's rhythms and push through for the sake of productivity and being liked. I'm here to say no more. Let's start listening to our bodies and hearts and give ourselves permission to take up space. Why? Because your ripple effect matters. In these episodes, we explore what it takes to live a wholehearted life one way you thrive from the inside out here at brave hearts rising We value diversity, compassion, creativity and kindness because we know that the world is a brighter place to be when you are free to show up as who you really are, not who the world wants you to be. Before we dive in a little about me, I'm your host, Lisa Pascoe, and I am also a Intuitive Life Coach. I help empaths highly sensitive women and LGBTQ plus folks in their 30s and 40s. To slow down and prioritise their well being so that they can be more present in their lives and experience more joy. To find out more about the work that I do, please check out www dot Lisa pascoe.com. Of course, after you've listened to this episode first. Hello, hello. Today on the podcast I'm talking to the delight Well, Nikki. She is the owner of the bookish mindset, which is a book subscription service that alternates between fiction and nonfiction titles. What makes the bookish mindset different is its focus on diversity and inclusion and amplifying marginalised voices. Nikki always does her best to make sure that both the authors of the chosen books and the small businesses that the bookish mindset supports are as diverse as possible. I absolutely loved this conversation with Nicky. It's actually the first time I've had a glass of wine while interviewing. So let's see. If you notice and intrude ashy, introvert style we cover so much we talk about how Reading helps Nikki with her anxiety and other mental health benefits of reading. We talked about the importance of representation, both for us growing up and generally in the world. And we talked about what it was like for Nikki to start the bookish mindset during the pandemic, and so much more. Everything that we discuss in this episode comes from our own lived experiences. As is always the case with bravehearts rising interviews. And that means that sometimes things will be said imperfectly, and on the fly. So if you ever want to give me feedback on any of the interviews, please do you can email me me sir Lisa Pascoe calm I'm always open to having a conversation. If you love books, and are passionate about reading, then this episode is for you. So whatever you're doing, yeah, as comfortable as possible. And enjoy. So hello, Nikki, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited for you the listeners to hear my conversation today with Nikki. Nikki is the founder of the bookish mindset. She's an avid reader, and she is a big advocate of reading, but also diversity and learning about different worlds, through other people's perspectives and other people's voices. And I think that's what I really love about the bookish mindset is a bit like brave popularising, you'd like to shine a light on other people, or maybe marginalised voices people's whose voices aren't usually in the mainstream. And it's like a really lovely way to introduce people who wouldn't ordinarily read these types of books, introducing them into these new worlds and get them thinking slowly. So before we kind of dive in deeper into that, let's just give us a overview of what the bookcase mindset is for those people who who don't know, I think you've done it brilliant, let's be honest. Okay, so the bookish mindset is a monthly book subscription service. So each month I create their new box, which has a book two gifts from small businesses and the tea because I love sitting down with a bucket of tea. The books are bought through pitching books or an independent bookshop parents, I'll see that but it's really quite important to me and supporting small businesses also things very close to my heart. And so let's take for that matter and analyse our business. I started over lockdown, really just from love of reading and love of recommending books to people. I've always been a reader. Since I could read I've been collecting books and reading and just love it and I found definitely over lockdown. A lot of people went back to reading and obviously friends and family know me as someone that reads a lot and reads a lot of different things come to me for recommendations and it was after the first few months of that I'm like why don't I do this? Why don't I try If and, yeah, as you said, diversity inclusion is something that's very important to me, I did a lot of learning as an sort of a lot of waking up, as I think a lot of the world did last summer with a lot of the issues that are arising in America. And I think that opened a lot of eyes. And so when I started the bookish mindset, I wanted to start something that was diverse, something that was inclusive, and helping people find books that aren't maybe shouted about by every big bookshop out there, because I think, without going into too much, I think publishing is getting better. But it's very much a work on sport. And that's not to say why don't read or write books, but there's a lot of other great authors out there that maybe don't quite get the same publicity. And that's what I've really enjoyed reading myself, but then finding them and sharing with others. Oh, thanks so much for sharing. I love it. And I think subscription boxes really did take off during lockdown didn't mean terms of just being this really nice. A it's a really nice gift. But be it's a really kind of like gentle introduction into something. Definitely. So I really love that. And I think one question I'd like to ask you is, I think the listeners, like people who listened to brave hearts rising, they are passionate people, they care about creating change in the world. They have ideas. They have ideas that scare them, like what was the process for you between getting the idea for doing something like this, and actually putting it into practice and putting it out there? And like, what was the journey around that? Some of your feelings and emotions and yeah, what helped you along the way? Well, it all came about a bit quickly. I'll be honest, it was very natural in its progression. But it all came about a bit quickly to the point of oh, here we are, we're starting. Lots of stuff happened last summer, lots of social injustice, awards light. And that made me look at my bookshelf and realise how white it was. I think so that was the big kicker for me. And last year, so 2020 At the start of the year, I set myself a goal of reading one book a week, as because I wanted to read more and get back into reading because it's quite easy to let it fall by the wayside as I'm sure readers or non readers or past readers know. So I'd set myself a goal to read more anyway, I was sort of trying to find things off the top, sell less and read a bit differently. And then I sort of clocked and realised how white my bookshelf was. So I was trying to diversify and spread my reading wings further. And the more I found the more I'm just some incredible, incredible books that I you know, a few years old, which doesn't isn't obviously an issue, but just some of my favourite books I've ever read now. And it just felt a shame not to kind of share that with people in terms of business starting. Yeah, I think I probably had the idea sort of late December start January and then February started. There wasn't I won't say there wasn't much planning. But it all all spiralled and having a bit quickly. It was yeah, it was challenged to bookshops. It was checking the services to seeing you know, is something viable. I've got a book, sort of there are other book subscription boxes available. And I was subscribed to them. And it's more this gap in the market that switch between fiction nonfiction, I wanted to find out kind of where it came from. But emotionally it's it was terrifying. I mean, it still is. Yeah, I still work full time. Lovingly. So. But it's yeah, it's terrifying. This is so out of my comfort zone in a really happy way. But also not at all. Yeah, the business side of it totally you absolutely learning as I go, What on earth I'm doing Yeah, big mix of have no idea what I'm doing terrified at the same time, but reading and talking about comes so naturally, that it doesn't feel like work. But there's still that nervousness around it, of course. But I really hear that it's that passion of reading, shining a light on other voices that really drives you through the fear and all the other things it's like, it's very clear that you've got this purpose of like bringing these different books to new readers and inspiring other people to pick up books and actually take some time to read. Definitely, definitely. I know something that you talk about a lot is about how reading can benefit your mental health. Like how, how do you see reading and like from the research you've done? Like how does it boost people's mental health? Like why is it good for us? So it starts from very personal level. It's one thing that I do that nose helps me i He may have noticed already for this small chat. I have quite a nervous person as it is I'm quite introverted, but I get normally since the last sort of five, six years ago, quite bad anxiety at times. They're very much peaks and troughs. And that could be a result of many things exam stress, the university, high pressure jobs, etc. But my mind can go at 100 miles an hour and I find it very difficult to switch off from work sometimes and that's come to a place of genuinely loving what I do work lies outside the bookish mindset. But it can be quite difficult to switch off and stop that brain going 100 miles an hour, and that sort of speed carries on into home life, and then it becomes almost this anxiety ball that doesn't slow down and doesn't shut up. Reading is one of the few things that stopped me and makes me slow down. Because you have to concentrate on the words on the page, because if you have to go back and revisit, it genuinely takes you out of where you are at into this another world. And it might be a, you know, very similar world, or it might be something totally different. It's, and there's, you know, there's many a study behind that as well. It's a huge stress reduce a stress reliever. And for a lot of people. It's escapism. Exactly. And I think it also taps into your imagination as well. And it creates, depending on the subject matter, obviously, it can take you into like worlds of possibility and change and reimagining what what's possible for the future, both on a personal level and a more of a collective level as well. Yeah, absolutely. And of course, it can be really inspiring as well, to give you a sense of courage when you read other people's stories and what they've been through or when you read about activists and what they've done. You think, wow, okay, I think yeah, so that's really powerful. I was gonna say, I think one thing that's quite important is, especially on the topic of race, and I think one thing that's really important, especially reading is finding Black joy, and finding these wonderful stories that have black characters, or any marginalisation at the centre. And it doesn't have to be about trauma, you don't have to be about trauma, it can be your joy and happiness. And that is really quite beautiful when we're talking about this ally ship and coalition and activism work, which I know you're quite passionate about, as well, is quite disheartening, and it's miserable. It can be quite miserable, to be honest, it can really learn you I'm definitely the kind of person that feels things quite strongly I do think that's probably because of reading because you have no other choice but to feel that per character's feelings. So I think reading about joyous things from idealizations is pretty important. But then that's another great thing from reading themselves that the empathy that you get from reading. It's, that is, yeah, it's second to none, you have no choice, but to at least read, at least taken, what that character is thinking, feeling doing. Why are they doing this, what's running through their head, and obviously, very different stories, and tell that in very different ways. But you have your nonfiction, you have your memoirs, that is a real person that is going through real life, trauma, joy, you can't ignore that empathy is such a huge one. And that does so many great things, especially I think, as children as children, reading does such great things with character development, and for relationships, not just children. But as we grow up. Empathy is such an important part of both friendships and romantic relationships, you know, family related to everything, being a better friend, because you can empathise and listen and not just shout back is, it's huge. I guess in some ways, reading is kind of like listening in some ways. Yes. In that sense that you're someone's like putting their voice into words, and then you're through reading, you're quiet, you're listening to those words. And I think, and we've talked about this before, I think particularly for introverts or people who need extra time to process, it can be a really powerful way to listen, learn, observe and kind of allow things to learn differently internally. Because you can take it at your own pace. You read that at your own pace, you can sit, close the book and just read something that's heartbreaking. I can sit with that. Rather than if we're in a conversation one on one. You can't just say hold on, just be quiet, and I just need to sit for an hour. You know, and absorb that. No, totally agree that listening to it is is crucial. Yeah, yeah, opening up to other worlds. And I think it's really important what you say about trauma and joy, because so often, I think, so often for marginalised communities people do, can become obsessed with the trauma side and it becomes almost definitely raised and people reshare these awful images or stories or focus on the sadness. And it's a it's disempowering. It's just there's all sorts of problems with it. It's like when you look at race, when you look at queerness all of these things often like for me growing up, you didn't have many happy stories around. Queer love, for example, you know, usually there's someone who's all melancholy or has some kind of mental health issues and they're really lonely and those are the stories that you're told and then you think that that's what life is like You very rarely get this Oh person falls in love with this other person. It's really beautiful and they just skip along. And it's different in books. It's the same like, there aren't that many leaves growing up, there weren't that many books available that showed you positive, happy endings, there were no Disney endings for queer people, for example. There's and that's why representation is so, so important because I'm going to use young people again, because young children growing up, seeing the things that representation feels like you can do something. I mean, as a white woman, I'm not as marginalised as others, but as a woman wanting to do science and engineering. That's it. That's a small group of us anyway. But there's two characters that stick in my head. So clearly, it wasn't lots of models. And yet, my God was so much better than we weren't, we're not perfect. There is Atlantis, the Disney film Atlantis, the mechanic, that she was a Latina woman, she was brilliant. And she was first and she didn't give a shit. I'm Hope I can spare sorry. I remember her so clearly, as a, as a woman doing that I can do this. I've always always had an inkling that I quite liked engineering. And Lisa Simpson was the other one from The Simpsons. She made it okay for me to get to or to think that you can read and learn and love that. And there's not lots of definitely those are two big things that I remember growing up. I'm sure there's more nowadays, I hope I think there are lots more representation seriously matters. You know, it's so important for young people to see that there are so many options did the like the modularization like having like Barbie dolls is so important for young girls to see. And coming away from this sort of very white Eurocentric beauty standard moving away from that to young girls that are not, you know, this whatever white beauty standards that the world fortunately holds everyone to that they are not eight, that is not that's not everything. That's not everyone. And obviously, that extends out to everything and not just looks, but it's so important. Yeah, I don't have all the words for that. representation matters so much to young people and their development, finding and accepting themselves. And seeing and hearing people who look sound or love, like they do is really in a positive way is really important. That's what books can do. And I am obviously there was the issue of the publishing industry, I think I would shout out to Beck's life on Instagram and rowhouse publishing that space based but they have done a lot to shine a light on the on the issues in the industry and trying to build solutions as well to actually represent people, which is promising that there are more people disrupting the publishing industry. And obviously, with the birth of things like self publishing, fun crowdfunding all of these things, it means that people are able to put their work out there more easily. There's not quite that gatekeeper there as as. So here's to more representation in the future and shining, more joy, more diverse voices, and just coming together more as community and challenging each other, in just challenging each other and challenging ourselves to think differently. And I remember I recently read tomorrow will be different by Sarah McBride, who's a, as a politician in the US Trans. And one of the things that she said in the book was around, you know, all this time that we're asking marginalised people to just be patient, like the world isn't ready for these rights view yet. It's like you're asking people to put their life on hold, and it just really struck me like it was such a good way of putting it. It's like, just because the world at large isn't ready, like, does that mean I should just not be living my life? Does that mean I just think to myself be held captive by the status quo. And I just it's, I would very much recommend that I think he would really love tomorrow will be different. Such a good sound, not the sound of that, but also amazing. Yeah, amazing. And then I'm gonna go with one more on mental health, or one more sort of benefit of reading that's, like, not quite related, but I think is important and interesting. The other thing I've read, and again, studies behind it, is improved memory. Because every time you're reading and putting down a book, assuming you don't just read the book in one sitting, or every book you read is and will say, you're remembering where that story finishes. When you pick it back up. Again, you're looking back into that story. And the more you do that, the brain your muscle, more, you're doing it on your own, but and over theory, and I'm John, I'm so sorry, when you listen to this over theory that I have a better memory, short term memory than my partner because he can never find things that you put down on the counter. It can be completely blanks with words but it's keys words versus headphones like this. And I swear, I'm better at this because I read more than him or read a hell of it short term memory because you're constantly not constantly. You might not be thinking of it sort of during the day when you're not reading but when you pick it up and this right, if we if that wasn't a thing, you'd have to read the book, perhaps the beginning every time so I think that's something that's quite important. definitely guilty of leaving too long between sessions. having to go back? Having time not here to guilt, not here to guilt. I just, I think that's a really interesting point that reading can do. Yeah, yeah, no, those really interesting and it's true. And it's amazing how they become like memories. Like when we look back to books that we've read in the past, and it's almost like this world that you've visited, it's almost like you've been on a holiday or not if it's a really difficult book. I love that. Yeah, really interesting. Because we will have different visuals as well is a classic in terms of looking at the brain. And like, we're both read the same book, but the images that we imagine and the character that we imagined they might have different, especially about it, you know, all of these different things will be so, so different. And the experience is so different. I definitely find that interesting. totally great. And that's where we have issues with the books becoming TV shows, because we're everyone's open on that. How am I to know that? It's always fun. You know, people who are really loyal to the book version can get very upset by the film version. There are some things I'd rather watch the read. Yep. Interestingly, it does depend. They have a theory that the best films out there are the best films out there because there were books because of that level of detail in there first, and I'm pretty sure it holds up for most of them. Lord of the Rings is the classic example of that. Incredible, actually not watch Lord of the Rings. Sorry, I read The Hobbit as a child, but it was so long ago. I just remember the Bilbo back in the song about smashing the plates. That's what Bilbo Baggins hates. I loved that song as a child and I love Baggins. But I've not seen the films because they seem really dark. And I'm not I do watch dark things. Don't get me wrong, but I haven't watched Lord of the Rings. Maybe I need to have that as a Sunday afternoon thing. I've got judging, judging my reading, when I was when I first started reading, Fantasy was where I lost in the reading. I read Lord of the Rings probably far too young, not to my parents well at all. I've got my mom's old Lord of the Rings books years ago, I just, I loved them. And then it's film. They just, they just do about it. And I'm sure there's other great examples. Artemis Fowl. I've read that as a kid. And that came out as a film. I don't know. It's definitely a kid's film, but I just got so excited. So you know? Yeah, I'll go on for hours. Watership Down. And that was really sad Watership Down. Really sad. And I definitely I think my mom read that to me, because I definitely read a lot as a child. And I think as an empath, as well. I mean, I read more about I read a lot about animals definitely read a lot more about animals, I think, because it was quite nice to relate to animals and people sometimes I know, there'll be listeners out there not judging and going. Yes, I agree. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Well, I found really interesting is so many of the books I've read as a child have male characters, male main characters. And recently, I started going back to young, young adult sort of genre, which is not something to be sniffed at as adults, it is incredible writing just doesn't have sometimes that miserable illness and horrible things. But going back to it, I found a couple recently, that a young adult, but have very strong female leads. And I know, these are the books that I would absolutely devoured and would have, I'm excited for the next generation, the generation of young girls that are reading these, this is what I needed. This is what I would have loved. And I'm so excited. And that's where we do see Publishing's again, just slightly better, we're not perfect by any sense. But there are some great things coming. Great authors been recognised, and that's how we push it, we bought we, we vote with our money. We keep buying those wonderful. Authors. You're right, it's about where we invest. And it's not even always about money, that you can invest your money, but it's also where you invest your time and your energy. What you're amplifying, there's just so many different ways to lift each other up. Totally. And yes, I'm very privileged to say that with Irene of Maya Angelou as a child, and I know why the case bed saying just like she completely just opened my mind to all have like a whole different world because obviously I live in the UK. And she was in the south in America in a really different time. Very religious background. What we assumed to be true for everyone really isn't having grown up in like quite an atheist, household, feminist, anti war kind of household. My reality was quite different from other people's realities. And I think there's a part of growing up in that though, I think very much as you're very much a young age, you think you're in a very much a little bubble, isn't it? And as you grow older, and Reading helps you do that, doesn't it? It expands your worldly knowledge. But it doesn't it's but it's back to that empathy. It's reading other people's lives, isn't it? And I'm just appreciating that it very much can be very different from what you've experienced. So Yeah, exactly. Well, there's so much that we can cover when it comes to books and reading and diversity. I think firstly, I just want to jump all the way back and just say I think it's really comforting to hear about the fear of starting a project. And I think the listeners will be comforted. Because I think if you were to watch you on Instagram, for example, see your post, people be like, Oh, she just knows exactly what she's doing. It comes easy. It's like really easy to get comparison. Because it's like you, you know, you're just putting out your boxes every month, you've got this content, and you're just like doing it. And you're putting people like, at least a monthly stall that you're doing selling stuff, you know, so, but it's it is it's important, I think, to have that kind of transparency, because it's easy to see people on Instagram or on the internet doing their thing, I think, wow, they're like totally smashing it and not to be like, you're not smashing it, but say, but behind all of that, then salutely A human who has emotions, and you know, it can get messy sometimes or in your in our heads. We've all got things going on. And not to assume that like, well, they're okay, because of this 1x, y and Zed and it's like, we all have our things to work through. So that's that's comforting. Definitely. Oh, definitely. I think that transparency is so important. So by trade, I'm an engineer, but I'm a project manager. So I'm used to organising and tight deadlines and chaos. But I haven't got a clue what I'm doing. And I mean that with a lot of, but yeah, Instagram, it's, it's ridiculous. I mean, people really don't know what I'm doing. I just, I just have to laugh at myself really mimic the Jawi absolutely cry laughing at some of the because they're ridiculous. They're deaf. But it's, it's more a form of entertainment for myself as anything else. I like to say I know what I'm doing. But I really don't. It's not that it's all made up. But it's definitely not as linear and comms very much that iceberg or duck on the surface and then link frantically underneath. I've definitely organised and I definitely am a planner by nature. But that doesn't mean I'm confident in your Instagram, I hated doing video calls my mom laughs at me, because I would never do FaceTime. For ages. I just found it awkward looking into someone constantly. And when I started this, I kind of had to have a talk with myself and date, right? You've got to go on camera doesn't matter whether you like it or not, you've got to do it because that's the way you're going to communicate. And I think that's something that does kind of well in the book is in the bookish mindset, because I'm there, I'm a person, I'm a real person, I do my lives, I fluff my words, I forgot what I'm saying. And it's a real person behind it. This isn't a polished appearance, you know, I'm not a Polish person. By any sense. I don't think that that would benefit anyone. It's about being human. And the books that you recommend, that you put in your boxes is all about, like humanity. And so you know, what, that's not about being polished and trying to present a facade like a perfect facade. Yes. Like the world of that. And I think both of us are about questioning the status quo. And missing an important part of that is showing real, like, your real self, as much as possible. Yeah. And every range of emotions, it's not just happy all the time, it's, I'm fed up, I'm taking a break list, or I've made a snake Let me hold my hands up because I fucked up. You know, it's every, it's every range. And people relate to that more. And then we come here, or that whole women's beauty standards of I need to have makeup I need to have washed hair to be perfectly presented all the time. So make a real effort. I haven't messy hair, just quickly change that. I didn't need effort not to use filters on my face too often not have makeup on to not have washed hair all the time. You know, this is very much this is what you get but this to try and break. Like you said break that status quo. It doesn't. You don't have to be this polishes. There isn't one version of a woman. There isn't one version of you know, candidate. But that's also come, I guess, oh gosh, it sounds like a very kind of that's compassion childhood being in an engineering environment. That's sort of breaking stereotypes already. Because women are meant to be in the country. We're not meant to be engineers. Actually, someone actually said that. The jokes that are meant to be jokes, but really, what are you doing engineering? He should be here you should be doing this. Or oh, your personal assistant or you're on reception? No, I'm one of the engineers banks. Yeah, so I've been quite used to not conforming maybe, but I've got great influence from my mum from that my mum is as much as you'd probably never call herself a tomboy or a feminist because those words she'd never used but She absolutely is. She didn't like the thought of wearing a wedding dress or the wedding day she wear a pantsuit. She's never conformed to any of that. And she's wonderful. She's my dad, when they were before they had me and we're renovating houses, she was up on the roof sorting stuff out building. And there'd be so many men that walk past and say, What are you doing other work, be careful, get down and all this. And when they, when they were only when there was a gentlemen's clubs were a huge thing. She used to get so pissed off that one, she wasn't allowed in into that there weren't women's toilets. So she used to use them anyway. And not ship over this wonderful influence from her of not conforming. We're going off on a tangent. But yeah, and then, interestingly, I went to an all girls school, and then went the opposite and did engineering, which was narrative format. So I've had this wonderful change, I like to not be I think I'm saying I'll be the normal because that sounds off as well. And that not like other girls as a horrible phrase as it is. But I don't think anyone benefits for that from a facade or pretending that everything is fine. Everything is in control, because it's not life is messy. Life isn't as messy. Wiggly, and that's totally fine. And that's actually how everyone is. So what's the point of pretending to be okay, and I guess in the filament shift? Yeah. And so without, you know, and I would add, as with you that, obviously, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be polished for your videos, if that's what you need. Because I know that sometimes like when working in mental health and peer support, sometimes the days, like if you had a person that you were working with, and they were really made up, you knew that actually, they were probably at their worst, but the more made up someone was that was actually the more worried you should be. Because they can't know what area they're trying to say. Exactly. So it's like, there's no judgement here. It's just saying no, but there is a world in the coaching world at least. And I think in the online business world of recipes and having to present yourself in a certain way. And that's what I'm referring to, I'm not referring to definitely just doing their thing and like your grandma or whatever. It's the tool. Now, this is how this is what professional looks like, and you need to be professional. Yes, it's all of that stuff. And actually, if you've got something important to say, you don't have to put your lipstick on first, if that gives you confidence, fine. If you want to put lipstick on fine. But if you don't just just get it out there. Absolutely. And for me, it's being true to myself. I can't count the number of times I put foundation on in the last year, I sometimes put a scar on that. That's and that's mean, that's my choice. And I had the right to that choice. And that's the beauty of it. I have the choice, but I don't feel I shouldn't. And don't feel like I have to do that if I'm coming on camera, because that's being true to me and going now I'm sorry, I don't give enough in the shed or I don't care. I don't. And that's it. It's the personal choice. And that's, that's the point we're making, I think. Exactly. Regardless. Yeah. And it's about what feels right for you and yours. Good. Because for some people, yeah, that's their jam. And that's great. And I applaud the people that can because I can't do this. I just think to my face, I can't do this, this does not come naturally. And I do not have the patience or steady hand. I'm exactly the same, which is fine. And the people that do i j, I say envy in that I'm in. I'm amazed. And so it's such a talent, it's artistry. It's beautiful. It's incredible. But it's also the people that can't do that and don't want to do that to not feel like they have to be there. So there's that blend, isn't it? It's just take away the barriers, all these artificial barriers about what you need to do in order to do X. That's it is scary. So I totally acknowledge it and I don't always walk my talk. I do do scary things. Don't get me wrong, but they will maybe I won't. Oh no, I know. I'll hide Nicola and said yep. Okay, so that leads wonderfully into imposter syndrome as well. The fun that that brings. Yes, imposter syndrome. So before we started recording the benefit of the listeners, we were talking about how Nikki's thinking about starting a podcast. And I was asking like, Would you ever do a blog as a podcast, your favourite medium, and then we got to talking about writing. And Nikki was saying about how she was hesitant. She had this pasta syndrome around writing. How about you tell us a bit more about this, Nikki? Okay, so I've mentioned a few times, probably too many. Already. My career in education is engineering, which is very massive sciencing very much report based rather than essay writing, despite I've always loved reading. I'm also interested in Yes, almost two opposites, isn't it? And so very much had this barrier, that I am an engineer, I'm a scientist. Therefore, therefore, I am not creative. I am not good at being creative. That's one barrier. And also on the back of that therefore, I am not good at writing essays or blog style reviews or or or an even when writing reports on my feed that was deaf. Like you waffle too much. So I've got this huge barrier to that Instagram posts. I don't feel the same with because I feel like it's a bit menial, because it's social media, I can always tell myself, it's just social media. It's not writing bomb, but it absolutely isn't. Oh my god, it takes a while. Yeah, I've written my first blog, I did sort of it. I'm doing it as the review, do my reviews now on a blog, so I can sort of set them out differently and write a little bit more. And posting that was terrifying. I mean, I've been meaning to do that since I started in February. Yeah. You weeks ago was the first point. But there's such a barrier having myself going, you can't right. You're not crazy. You shouldn't be doing this. Because I'm not qualified to university level in that, which is bonkers. And so podcasting felt like, I've been think, again, I think I did a podcast, not quite as long. But for a few months thinking that well, maybe that's a different way to reach people. Because I like to talk, I can talk quite easily and quite freely, but then it becomes, oh, but you ramble too much. Or when you talk this and you're not perfect with how you say things. And then and then it becomes then this big thing? Oh, well, you say in your book, you say in your little engineering box, because actually, that's what you know, you can do. And that's what you're qualified to do. And this becomes this huge thing. And then it goes, oh, what else? I'll stay away from that I'll stay in a conference. And it's funny. Yeah, especially the creative thing. The fact that I've told myself, I'm not creative, which is bizarre, because I've loved I needed interior design, instead of engineering and renovating houses well apart. I love doing this sort of styling side effects. So there is something creative, but I refuse to call myself creative, because I've decided that I'm an engineer, which can't be creative. But absolutely, yes, people can be multifaceted. And that's something I'm really trying to tell myself, I can listen to it. But telling myself and doing it is a totally other. Totally different thing. Yeah. And it's years of conditioning, isn't it? And also, it's this binary thinking. And that's like, this is where we have to push back, like binary thinking, like, you're either this or you're this. And it's just so limiting. And I thought it was an interesting one to like, talk about, like around that imposter syndrome and like your experience around writing, because I know there'll be listeners, and exactly the same situation, and whether it's around writing or speaking, because, you know, maybe you've got an accent, and you've been told that you don't have proper English, quote, unquote. You know, and the same with writing like that, too. Yeah. It's just another way that kind of systems of oppression stop people from from thriving in the world. You know. And it's really important that we challenge that I was listening to a really good TED talk earlier by someone called Lavie Joy Jones, which was called to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, and it was really, really good. And then he was. And he was talking about how comfort maintains the status quo. And how, obviously, your silence serves nobody. And then what she said that I wrote down was people and systems count on our silence to keep us exactly where we are. In a world that wants us to whisper, I choose to yell, and I just thought that was so good. And important, though, many of us keep quiet around things, because we're scared of what other people might say we're scared that people walk by people might think about us. And that's normal. And I want to, again, say around all of this is that you know what, depending on where you're at, with your mental health, your physical house, like, it can be quite a lot for your nervous system to do the big scary things. So I do think it's important to make sure there are support structures in place for you what whatever they might look like. Whether that's rest or people, all the things is, is important, I do think that you have to be really mindful of your capacity in a given moment. And not just be like JFDI you've got this if you believe that you could achieve it. Like you have to be gentle with your body. You have to be work with your capacity and like stretch your comfort zone, not smash it to pieces I read, I don't actually love the word smash it. I know it's quite popular. A lot of people I know will use it, but sometimes it just feels very violent to me. And so I wanted to say that around that because it is important to have our voices heard and I absolutely encourage your listeners, if they've got the seed of an idea within them or this this kind of spark that wants feeding or even it might be a raging fire. Who knows Yeah, just make sure that you are in this grounded place. And don't feel like you have to do anything. Like safety is really important as what I'm saying with all of this feeling safe is important. And it can feel like a lot of pressure to feel like you have to I feel like this often impasse, introverts changemakers feel like they have to do it alone and they feel this pressure There's constantly so much going on in the world. And there's always been a lot going on in the world. But what's different now is that it's 24/7. And it's everywhere. It's on your phone, it's on your TV, it's just, it's all over the place. So, actually switching off from it doesn't happen that often unless you're very intentional about it. And that has an impact too. So it's just remembering that you don't have to fix everything, or do all of this and create change and grief. I just felt like I had to say that as we were talking about so many things I love I love how you speak such passion as well, it really resonated with just you it's wonderful to hear you speak about so much. I think the binary is such an important thing right now in queer history. It's that's so important. We very naturally, it's almost me that reminds me right back, it's I relate a lot back to education, I realise it's a huge privilege. It's science and math is either right or it's wrong, there are boxes. And there's an extent that that is it. But not everything has to be so binary you the arts are not marked with tick boxes, your English is never marked as a right or wrong. There's it's more it's a spectrum rather than rather than these boxes, which is beautiful. And it's so necessary in so many parts, those boxes, you put yourself in, I am this therefore I cannot be this. And it's almost built into us. From a young age, it's almost cliques, it's a social groups, you're part of this group, therefore, you cannot be part of another group, which is bonkers when you really think about it. It's very easy, I guess, as adults to say that, but it's trying to get that through to kids, which is what really young, diverse comes in. But yeah, that's it's a wonderful thing. And that shouting rather than whispering is huge. That resonates with me so much. It's terrifying I can make whenever reading something, I'm making notes on it. And it might be quotes that I really like or resonate with me, or it might be my thoughts. So after this, so this is a quote and this links to this, and this is an important go, why can't Why can I not put that somewhere else? Why does that just have me feeling awareness or doubting myself. And it's because I put myself in this box because I don't believe or hiding it. It's a separate account rather than my normal account, limiting beliefs that really resonated also in the TED talk or link to the TED talk in the notes. But she she says that she asks herself three questions. Did you mean it? Can you defend it? And were you saying it with love? As you're saying, I love that? If she can say yes to all of those, then she just says it and let the chips fall. And I thought that was really great advice. I think a lot of us are struggling right now to know exactly what to say. There's a lot of division between people. It's, yeah, it's quite polarising at times. And I do feel like, for some, for some of us, we feel like bridges, like I know, I feel like a bridge between worlds sometimes. So I can kind of understand where these people are coming from, and where these other people are coming from. And it's just trying to build it away. Put to bridge communication, ultimately, I think that's just so important at. And I think what's important there is that empathy and that understanding of where other people come from, maybe it's an older generation that has not dealt with this amount of changes quickly, which is what society now is bringing, which is great, because it's needed. But perhaps we're a slightly older generation that has never had such change such so quickly, because of the internet. It's quite alarming. And it's quite alienating almost to say, well, whatever you feel is ever is wrong. Or you can't say that, because it's gonna go well, actually, by saying this, you're not considering this person's feelings and how they've been through. So it's come it's a slightly different approach, I think. And it's different with different people and different with different subjects. But yeah, that communication is important. And it can and has to be different for different people in different subjects. And I think that's key, I think, yeah, so to come back to your point about limiting beliefs, I think this is a really interesting topic. And I'm just gonna speak as I think now because that's what I do this sometimes. But I think in in the self development world and the coaching law, there's a lot of emphasis on the individual and like your blocks and your limiting beliefs, and what they don't take into account as a society that you've grown up in, and the messaging that you've received, and some of that has been really deeply ingrained. And then if you on top of that you add in some of the gaslighting that people experience through microaggressions being, and also just being told what's possible for you as this person in society, whether it's you as a woman, as a black woman, as a queer person, as a trans person, like what you're being told as possible. All of that feeds into the way that you perceive yourself and what's possible for you in the world. And so I think sometimes to just simply reduce things to Well, it's my limiting belief. Again, it puts all the responsibility back onto the onto the individual, it makes the individual the person at fault. And I'm not saying we don't take responsibility for ourselves. We absolutely can take responsibility for ourselves and we can also acknowledge all of the harmful and Toxic messages that we have been given all that we've received over the years that have built built into that. Totally, I've just not in London at all. No, absolutely. And that's why representation for me is so key. And that's where society always is at fault. Because we have failed, the young people that don't see themselves in whatever media that may be is that adult role models, if that's TV, if that's in books, if you don't ever believe that something is for you, then why, then you're not going to naturally strive for that you're only going to strive for what you think is possible, therefore limiting yourself rather than here, you're right back here. And equally, if you're told, growing up that, you know, the world is your oyster, and that you're going to get all these things, and then suddenly, you don't and this other person is that maybe you'll start to feel some rage. Yeah, it's just interesting, isn't it? We're gonna flip that one on his head. Because I've got a great phrase, and I can't remember where I heard it. It was somewhere on social media years ago, it was when I was starting to learn about social justice. That was great. I have this really interesting conversational partner all the time, my year for university. That's awful. My year for university was the last one on cheap fees. And I remember specifically, I think, was Bristol University saying they will offer girls applying lower grades to get more females into engineering. And John was saying, I don't I know, I speak very highly of him. And he's very fair. And I would never say it's ever been unsupported or anything like that. Just isn't, isn't that unfair? For men? You go, I have well, equality to the privileged feels like oppression the pendulum has is so far the other way. It has to swing to the other extreme to be able to come back to normal. So for the men that think they're on the backfoot. Actually, no, it's because women have been on the backfoot and black women and trans women and trans people and queer people and every other marginalisation, they've been on the backfoot for so long. Now, they're just getting a little piece of the action. You feel like you're at a disadvantage. We're not we're just trying to level the playing field. I think that's something that always sixes make a quality to the privilege to feels like oppression, because they feel like they think they're getting less when they've had so much more for so long. And it's so normal. Yeah, I agree. And that's a great quote, one thing I wanted to touch upon, before we go into the questions I asked everyone is, so he talked to me about imposter syndrome. He talked about writing. And I remember listening to you on a podcast recently called What comfort zone and you were talking about how selling can feel quite cringy and that you've almost had to develop a different persona. And like this kind of brave face, like, Who is that persona? How does she behave differently in the world? What are her thoughts and wishy, I've never named that persona, but it's something going into engineering, it kind of, I don't want to say came naturally, I don't know. I don't particularly remember thinking I've got to create this other person to be but it was almost like a front that had to put on. I'm quite shy. But when I meet new people, especially in a professional place, I'm quite shy, I'm quite quiet. And I'm quite nervous, and I don't like him being impolite, I hate getting things wrong. And so I'm that kind of overly nice person is how my body would put it when people get to know me or feel comfortable in your bike. But I get loud and I don't shut up. But certainly in the first place, it's I I don't take care of myself, but it's made it's a lack of confidence in myself, but there's definitely a front of peloton to go, right? I can deal with this today is going to be difficult to do is going to be dealing with conflict, which is not something I'm comfortable with at all today's gonna be dealing with people that are perhaps, and definitely not my new job. This is definitely when I was starting out. And then my first job and placement it was I'm potentially gonna be dealing some people that think very little of me, I think I can't do this. So I have to put on this face as almost all that to say, right? You can do this. You don't have to go and have a little cry every half hour when things are hard, despite how much you want to and that's absolutely okay, if you can, but sometimes at work. So it's more this honour to go right. Or maybe it's a pep talk more than anything to go right you can do this. Stop not believing in yourself, you're qualified you're here for a reason they've hired you for that you've not been fired yet. So don't do it kind of thing is this face to put on and go. You can do this you can do your job you're capable. So on the job I'm in now is a similar environment and industry but a much different team, much different way of working. And it's interesting, how quickly I've sort of clicked into myself and relaxed a little bit more. And there's definitely a lot of learning and growing and growing up. But it's interesting to how much I've trained myself and I still have days that I go. Oh, but the more I'm telling myself no you can do this. Come on. They've hired you for a reason. Come on. Be confident you can do this stop doubting yourself, the more natural has become so it's definitely faking it too. Making a bit is a little bit. It's a confidence in yourself. There are two things there. Firstly, the listener, you had your chest or puffed out like a proud Robin really, it's almost superimpose hands under the hip is like you knew about power posing before before the Tech Talk. So you have power posing, and then to that empowering positive self talk just like you can do this. And, you know, my mom always did that when I was growing up like she because she was, you know, she didn't have like qualifications from school particularly, and she didn't access course. And then she went to university. So she had that imposter syndrome kind of stuff around like, I don't really belong. Yeah, you know, because you went to bath. It's a very posh university with lots of posh young people. And she was a mature student, and so never give up was the phrase in our household. Yeah, that and don't let the bastards get you. Yes. Don't let the bastards grind you down. That was my mom's that was. I think we probably are quite similar mums. In some ways. There's definitely a Venn diagram there. That was really important. And I just wanted to highlight that for the listeners, because I think we all have these moments where we maybe we're starting a new job, or a new project or a new business. And it's like, can I really do this? Who am I to do this, and it's so normal to have these thoughts. And I think any technique that can help someone, whether it's power posing, or giving yourself a few stock phrases, the one thing I wanted to say about this is because you know, we can talk about faking it, you're making it but actually, if we think about what we're doing when we're power posing, and the fact that we know that that actually shifts your chemicals, in terms of in boost your testosterone, it decreases your cortisol levels. So you're not in that moment, you're not entirely thinking it because you have got more confidence. So I think it's important to say that because I think there's something about fake it to your makeup, that was always a bit off, isn't it? Because I don't like it, but it feels like it's on that same vibe. That's why I said that I'm with it. 100%. And I just pick up on it. So it's important to like just say it's not like you just go in there and totally fake it. Because I think what can happen then, again, your nervous system can fit you can feel quite unsafe, can't you when you fake it? Yes, definitely. It's out of character. It's different. It's new, it's out of comfort zone, literally it's. And so my point being is actually sometimes we're not entirely faking it. Because we're doing things like deep breathing, we're actually doing things to soothe and boost our nervous systems, which makes us more resilient and more able to face challenges. And I think it's important to think about that kind of physical aspect as well. So yes, I feel like I do have to ask this one last question. For listeners, for people who struggle to get through a hopper or say, I don't have time for reading, I know you have lots of tips around, like, what would you say to someone who says I don't have time to read a book about you do? Is the first thing. So it's very easy to say that. And I definitely have been that person in the past. So there is no guilt, there is no shame in that, first of all. And I will start this by saying I don't have kids to look after I only have a partner and myself to keep alive. So I'm lucky and time rich. In that sense. I will very much start by saying that because I know it's a whole different ballpark. The mums and young mums, iTunes is saying I'm sorry, mums and dads and parents with little ones. So that's what I start with. But reading is a habit. So the more you do it, the more natural occurs. And the more easy it is to be to pick up very much like it is social media and scrolling through your phone. Anytime you're scrolling through your phone, you could be reading literally, I think when we're talking about habits and creating habits, some brilliant book called atomic habits by James clear, that is definitely a recommendation. So everything I say is from that do it at the same time each day. So what what do you do every day, you wake up and you go, just like lots of other things happen in between that, but there are hopefully some definitely. Another thing is habit pairing where you do it pairing with something else you do everyday, for example, brushing your teeth. So once I brush my teeth, I'm going to read for 15 minutes before I go to bed, things like that. And rewarding yourself. Like once I finished a book, I'm going to buy another book, trying to think of something that's not capitalism. I'm going to buy myself something, but I'm struggling now. What's quite good to know is you can while it feels quite overwhelming, some books are shorter than others. So absolutely, there are some easy books come and slide into my DMs and asked me if you want some quick, easy books to read through first. But it's really quite easy to get through a book a month, maybe with 10 to 20 minutes of reading a day depending on your speed. So it's almost like 10 minutes before you go to bed. It's finding the times in your day, especially if you're making a habit specificity thing you but also read something that you love. If you've been told all your life that fantasy is silly and you don't want to know you shouldn't be worried about relationships. Oh my god. Go and pick something that you love. Go and read something with dragons and fairies that you'd love please with absolutely no shame in that, or if you love a proper rom com, which a lot of people dismisses, oh, it's not proper reading, or some of my favourites. I'm a software romantic, or something that makes me cry and fully go and read something that you love, because that is going to help you read more than if you do not pick up. The stick is what you can find them a bookshelf. And I'll be a bit critical if there are, if there's a list as there's a handful of books on your bookshelf that you haven't read for so many years, probably a reason for that, because they're not really cool. And you're not really that interested in doing them. Because I know I have them too. So yeah, read something you like, do at the same time every day. And it's supposed to be enjoyable, honestly. Yeah. And I would add, yeah, as you say, keep it enjoyable. Make it fun. And don't be too rigid with yourself. Like if you can't do it every day, just say like, two or three times a week. Yes, yeah, only because yc is a coach, sometimes when people try to start something new is they put so much pressure on themselves to like do it perfectly and do it all the time. Like every day. And the very reality is that you get distracted, something happens then you go well, that's that then I can't do it. Because I've missed a day. And it's like, well, no, be realistic with the time that you have, especially if you have got young kids or you've got a busy life, like just choose two or three times a week and just get you even like to start with twice a week might be just you know, like winning for you. If you've not been able to do it. Definitely. Or maybe when you're having a bath, and you've got 10 minutes apiece to lock the door go right I'm gonna read for 10 minutes while in the bath eating bath horrifies me. It just me too. So I have to say because so many people do. I'm terrified of dropping it. To the point I would almost want to cling film each page before I bought it feels like a bit expensive. But yeah, I have to say it because so many people do partnerships with the phone in the bath and it's just my wife does the same. And I'm just like, what do you do? Yeah, no, I totally agree. That's a really valid point. Fit it in where you come from. Don't put the pressure on yourself, but find something you love, because hopefully that will make you read it. Okay, so as we wrap up, I'm going to ask you the questions I asked everyone. What are you most grateful for right now? Oh, so filament. In my jobs. I should say job, too. So yeah. Okay, great. And what is one of your favourite ways to practice self care? Can I say books off the top of books too much. I definitely would say making the time to read. And very closely followed by making the time to spend time in nature our partner walking down to the beach, phones away, walking down, put your feet in the sea. Yeah. What does activism mean to you? It has to be a one word answer. Oh, no. Okay. Okay, good. It's constantly learning and it's being okay with doing things wrong. And when you hear the term reports rising, what comes to mind? I mean, obviously, you and it's being true to yourself and standing up for what you believe. Whether or not that's the same as everyone else that's around you. Thank you. And I'm going to ask this tell us about a book that's changed your life or the way that you see the world. Okay. I can't choose one that's going to be really difficult. No, I'm going to jet No, I will choose one fiction and one nonfiction if that's okay. Okay, well, I'm reading right now, because it's really interesting. I just finished reading is called feminism interrupted by Lola, oh, Femi. And it's by Sheikh Mohammed, it's incredible black woman and, and it's feminism interrupted, I can't describe to them that really lots of different feminist topics, but totally tone stretch. The thing I loved about this book is the first chapter where it's talking about the waves of feminism, which, as I started to read a lot more about from this theory of starting, there's different ways of feminism where if I started, the first thing to know with that is, the waves of feminism are only talking about the work that white women did, like when women were fighting for the vote, it was absolutely only for the white women, which is obviously problematic, and not where we are now. But referring to feminism in waves, is only acknowledging the work of white women, it's only taking into account the work of white women because white women at the time, were very much the oppressed becomes the oppressor and believing they're better than black men. So that it those waves of feminism don't take into account all the incredible work that you're doing these sorts of splinter groups, I think it's constantly learning. So that is brilliant. That is such an I love books that really dig deep and get really gritty and really make you go, Oh, I thought about that wrong and sort of change your outlook that way. And then the two others one of them is called Living Colour by early BABALOLA. It is short stories. They are myths and legends from around the world reimagined in modern times with women at the centre, and they are incredible, totally empowering and totally different people. They are around the world. They're from Africa. They're from Australia. from the Americas incredible, completely retold women at the centre of women, these strong figures, this queer representation, there's beautiful, beautiful women, and they definitely want to read incredible. And then I'm going to talk about the gilded ones, which is a young adult, and it's changed my life because I'm amazed and hope so hopeful for young girls out there. So the main character, she is a black girl, she's grown up without a mom, she is outcast by society because she is black. It's very much a fantasy world, but it's so patriarchal. And that young girls, they can't cut themselves before the 15 because if they, if they believe in the Cook golden, the demons and that ostracised and it's such a feminist, strong lead and such a feminist story without ever saying the word feminist which I think sometimes would certainly previously has been a dirty word, but it's such a strong powerful role model for young women without it being so obvious that it is and it's just, it's lit my fire and got me so excited and hopeful. I think that there are younger generations of women and girls that are going to read that and go, I can do so. Three their families uninterrupted loving colour and the gilded ones, all three are definitely recommend to anyone and everyone. Thank you so much. And then finally, if you could tell the listeners one thing, what would it be, don't give up in whatever that is, when we're talking about that facade. My phrase is you've got this whatever that is, you've got this wherever you are meant what was meant to happen to you will happen and you have got this was scary or terrifying or socially challenging or totally easy. You've you've got this in what is nice, he was coming for you kind of thing. And before you go, what are you currently working on and how can listeners find out more about you and your work? Okay, so I'm just finishing I'm just putting finishing touches to September's bots so you can find me on Instagram that's where I'm sort of most live I am at the bookish mindset calm I'm also on Facebook and the same name. My website is www dot the bookish mindset calm I think on Twitter as well at bookish mindset because the book is Monster doesn't fit. And I also got an email this can sign up on my website as well. But yes, always working on new boxes. Always reading. Always welcome conversation about books. If you want any recommendations, I will not just push the book through my boxes. I'd love to help with anything book related at all. Yeah, compiling. Thank you so much, Nikki, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you to this. I've smiled and got so passionate about so many things. I've loved this. Thank you so much for having me on. You're welcome. Thank you for listening to the brain parts rising podcast to support the podcast and help people like you find us please consider giving us a five star rating on your podcast platform of choice. And if you'd like to stay in touch, head on over to www dot Lisa pascoe.com forward slash say hello, where you can sign up to receive my nourishing notes. And these include gentle self care reminders, journaling prompts, inspiration and more. They're also a great way to stay up to date with all my current offerings and events. So have a fabulous week. Remember to be kind to yourself. Take care. Bye