The $50K Deal That Changed Everything for Femi Ajose

229: In this episode, I sat down with land investor and educator Femi Ajose, someone who has flipped land in 48 states and built a powerhouse business from the ground up.

(Show Notes: REtipster.com/229)

Femi started as a track star, aiming for the Olympics until COVID hit and forced him to pivot. What followed was an obsessive dive into wholesaling and, eventually, land investing.

We talk about:

• The $50K land deal that proved the model
• Why Maryland became his surprise goldmine
• How he outsells the competition with basic marketing tweaks
• The importance of sales skills and seller psychology
• Why most land investors fail in 2025
• How fatherhood and family changed his business priorities
• The marketing rules and title company secrets that are rarely discussed
• Why he stays away from desert land and overly rural properties

If you're a land flipper, land investor, or anyone building a real estate portfolio, this is a must-listen conversation packed with gold nuggets.

🙋🏻‍♂️ Get the REtipster Newsletter (It's FREE)!
Stay updated with top real estate investing insights and strategies

🚀 Land Investor’s Action Plan (Free 5-Day Course!)
Solve the 5 mistakes that keep investors stuck

⚠️ Land Buyer’s Survival Guide (Free 5-Day Course!)
Avoid the 21 most deadly land-buying blunders

👉 10X Your Income from Land Investing
Learn how to start and supercharge your land investing business

😀 Join the REtipster Forum!
Connect with experienced investors and get expert advice.

🛠️ All My Favorite Tools and Resources 🛠️
The best software, services, and gear I use daily

Transcript

0:58

Hey everybody, how's it going? Welcome to the REtipster podcast. This is episode 229. Show notes for today can be found at retipster.com forward slash 229. And today I'm talking with Femi Ajose. So I met Femi recently through our mutual friend, Michael Bartolome at Launch Control. Femi is a land investor and a land educator who has flipped properties in 48 states. Femi started in household selling during 2020, and he found land in 2021, and then he never looked back. In this conversation, you're going to hear how he hunts for off-market deals, why Maryland, of all places, became an unlikely goldmine for him, and the simple marketing moves he uses to outsell bigger competitors. We're also going to dig into sales skills and the hunter versus farmer mindset, and how fatherhood has changed business in life for him. So let's dive in. Femi, welcome. How's it going? Happy to be here, Seth. I've been watching you for a while, so awesome to be here. Aside from what I just said there, what's your origin story? How did you first discover real estate investing at all? What led you to getting into this profession? Yeah, I was in college. I was an athlete in college, actually, and my goal was to become an Olympic champion. And I was driving very hard in that, in my sport. And then COVID happened. And then I was forced to figure out another way to try to figure out how to make money. And my goal was just to be a self-sponsor. So I was like, okay, let me make some money. At the time, it's funny. It was just 150K a year. I was like, if I could just do that, then I could sponsor myself. And so I did a bunch of research on real estate, Amazon. I actually started a blue light glasses store before I found real estate. I just didn't like that. I fell into real estate. I watched a webinar about wholesaling real estate. And then I remember the next couple of weeks, all we were doing was just watching TV. So instead of watching TV, I was watching podcasts. I was watching every single video about wholesaling real estate, signing contracts. And I took action immediately. I did some deals. And that's how my real estate journey got started. Yeah, that's awesome. What kind of an athlete were you? Like, what were you doing? I was a sprinter. So I ran track at Long Beach State. I ran the 100 meter dash and the 200 meter dash. Cool. Did you like break any records or anything? I broke a few records. I broke the junior Olympic record. I tied my high school record. And I broke a record for the freshmen in college at the time at that school. So I had a 60 meter record at that school as well. Gotcha. How tall are you, out of curiosity? I'm six feet tall. Okay. When I think about basketball, for example, height seems to be a genetic advantage people have. Is height an advantage in sprinting? It really depends. You know what's interesting? Because they say Usain Bolt actually wasn't supposed to be as fast as he was because he was so tall. And statistically, the shorter sprinters are actually the faster sprinters. There's guys that are running nine sevens that are five eight, right? But I guess it is because the fastest man ever was six five. life. So I have to say yes. I wonder if it matters how much of your height is in your torso versus in your legs. Because I think it's actually different for some people, right? Their waist is at a different place that makes their legs possibly shorter, even though they're taller. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. No. The same way that I'm obsessed and focused on real estate, which we'll talk about later, that's how obsessed and focused I was on track. So I would know how many steps I actually would need to take to run a certain time. If I saw a guy's legs were a little bit longer than mine, I would know, okay, this is what you have to do to beat them. You have to get out this way. You have to take this many steps in your drive phase. You have to have this many steps in your acceleration phase. Your form needs to be like this. Your elbow needs to be adjusted at a certain point. Your knee needs to be pointed at a certain angle. I would know literally everything about it. I mean, that's what it takes to be great, right? That's what it takes to be at the top level. So I would study that a lot and study, you know, ground force, how many pounds of pressure you're putting into the ground, so on and so forth. Man, you really got into the science of that. Yeah, I was. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I think about that with different sports, like golf, for example. It's kind of thing where if you just made it your life, like every waking moment, practicing golf, you could probably be the best or close to it. But there's other things where it's like, I don't know, football or something or basketball. It's like, if you're not born with certain things, it's going to be hard to ever get way to the top. And I don't know if that's actually true or if that's just my limiting beliefs coming into the picture. What do you think? Is that accurate for certain sports? I think so. Yes. I think that you have to have some kind of genetics and cultivation of skills by the time you reach a certain age or to excel at any sport. Right. And so me, I was naturally genetically fast. Both of my parents ran track. My grandparents were athletes. Like everyone in my family has been athletes before me. And so I naturally had that. But I think every human has genetic capabilities that are supernatural that they just have to figure out, right? So maybe your thing is not running really fast. Maybe it's reading very well. Maybe it's speaking very well. I feel like we all have these supernatural capabilities, but we just have to cultivate them and figure out what they are. And then once we figure out what they are, triple down on them and become the best that we can at those things. Yeah, it's kind of an interesting mind game because sometimes I'll see someone who's really successful at business or land or whatever, and my mind goes to this place of, oh, well, they were just kind of born with something. They have something that I can't get. You know, I could work really hard and I'll never get as far as they are. I don't know that that's completely false, but I feel like that's mostly false. Like there's a lot of that, that like you really can do whatever you want. You just put your mind to it. 100%. Yeah, it's the weird thing, the limiting beliefs. What you believe kind of becomes reality in the end, right? One hundred percent and your internal thoughts lead to your external world all the time Everything that you think about yourself everything you think you're capable of It leads to how the world sees you and how the world around you reflects what you're doing. So if you think I'm not meant to make a lot of money You won't be if you think i'm not good at hiring people You won't be if you think i'm not talented, you won't be and so if you start to tell yourself I am talented. I can make a lot of money. I'm so grateful that I can make millions of dollars you tell yourself that your brain is going to start to actually do things to point you in the direction of making those millions of dollars. Right. And so I think people farly, farly underestimate what they can do and what they're capable of. Yeah. Do you have any limiting beliefs? Did you think of anything in life where it's like you kind of gave up on it too early or maybe like you just decided this isn't important to me. So I'm not going to like bend over backwards to try to think my way out of it. Like it's just doesn't matter. Yeah. That's a good question. I don't have any limiting beliefs at all. I'm very aware that I can do whatever it is that I put my mind to and that I can be the best at it. Cool. That's awesome, man. And I think that also comes from just how I was raised as well. But then also, I do a lot of reading. I do a lot of studying. And I realized that you look at all the things that just humans have been capable of doing and humans have accomplished. And I always think that if someone has done it before me, if I figure out the roadmap that they took to get there, why can't I do the same thing? That's definitely how I think. Now, the second question you asked me is something that I'm just like, it's not worth it. I feel like track was one of those things where I realized how much money I was able to make with real estate. And I wanted to be a world-renowned athlete, a champion athlete, all those things. You heard me earlier. I was so obsessed with it. I knew the amount of force into the ground I needed to put to run a certain time. I wouldn't say that I gave up, but more pivoted my drive, I've pivoted my mindset, pivoted my discipline, pivoted my habits into being the best businessman I can possibly be. And so I just kind of shifted energy as opposed to quitting. So in your mind, when you were obsessed with track, what was it for you? Like, what was the bottom line? Did you think if you got the Olympics, you could get signed and make a bunch of money? Or was it more just like the satisfaction of being the best? Because when I think about, and this is purely my own bias, but like a lot of the stuff that motivates me is kind of money driven because money can sort of give me freedom and I can do what I want once I have that. And when I think of something like track or like any sport, for example, if I can't like literally be pro at that, there's like no point in me even trying because like the pro level is where you can make a bunch of money. It's like, if you can't get there and if the money's not there, it kind of cancels it out for me. But I realized not everybody's motivated just by that. So like, what was your motivation in trying so hard to track? It was layered. When I was a kid, I got bullied a lot, full disclosure. And track was one of the first things that I did to where I was praised for it as a kid. And so I feel like as a kid, it was more validation from peers and validation from family members that you can do something great. I was smoking everybody, right? No one can beat me. Definitely. That was at first. And then I realized as I got older, remember this is around, I say 10, 11, 12, that age range. And around that time, it was the same time that I remember I had an iPad. My grandmother got me and I had YouTube on the iPad. And this was still when the YouTube had like that old logo on it, the little team I don't remember how I found this, but I found a video of Floyd Mayweather and he had 20 cars. And he's talking, well, yep, this is my Bugatti. This is my Ferrari. This is my McLaren. This is this. I have this $20 million house. I didn't even know that that world existed. I was like, how do you get that? And so I'm putting all these things together at a very, very young age. I don't live like that now, so I want that. And that turned into me doing research on Usain Bolt and learning that he made 30 or $40 million in the prime of his career, right? He was making tens and tens of millions of dollars. So I was like, okay, well, I mean, I'm fast. I can do this. I just kind of put it together. And then it became that. And I was just laser focused on track until the age of 19 years old, just going after that goal and going after that dream. Yeah. It's amazing how formative those childhood experiences can be. You find the thing where like, it just works for you and you get success or somehow it like levels up your status or whatever it is. Totally see that. I've got similar things that I can remember that it just worked for me. And that alone was enough to make me go all in on that thing. I think that's why self-awareness is so important because as I got older, what I realized is that what you really wanted out of this whole thing was to make as much money as possible and to take care of your family. That's really what we all want, right? And so I was like, well, what's the path of least resistance to get there? Okay, well, you're making money on these real estate deals. Why don't you just double down on that, right? And I think that happened naturally because I was still training. I was still getting better. But then I was just like, man, like, what is going to happen if I focus the next 20 years on just being a deal maker and helping people do that as well? Like, what's this going to look like? And so that's what I focused on. Yeah, man. That's awesome. 2020 COVID, you kind of discovered the household selling word, you got into that. And then at some point you discovered land. Do you remember like what your first lane deal was like? Like, what was it that proved the model for you? Like, when did you know, okay, this is real and this is better. Yeah. I got a $50,000 wire. So there you go. That'll do it. That changed it all for me. And we got an offer within 24 hours on that deal. I mean, before, you know, you have to find buyers, you have to do all this. And no, we just got an offer. There was a cash offer and we closed a week later. And so I was addicted to that from there. And I just doubled down on that earlier though. I remember just seeing a video of how people were making six figures of profit on land deals. And I saw another video, where this woman said that she made a million dollars on a land deal. And then six months later, she made another million dollars on one land deal. And I was like, I'm not seeing numbers like that here. And so I just was like, okay, if this is where it is, I'm just going to focus on this. And also a lot of people were not doing it. And I remember specifically, I had already done some deals wholesaling. I was coming back from the Bay Area to Long Beach on a flight. And I downloaded your podcast to listen to it on that flight. I downloaded it. You do that on YouTube premium. There's a guy on here talking about double closing, saying he made 50 or 60K. And I was just like, wow, he's talking about the problems that he had to deal with with the seller and all these things. And it's funny now because I've dealt with all those problems and I've done all this stuff now. It's just like, it's full circle. Since 2021, I've been fully focused and obsessed on land deals, doing deals, how to improve systems to do deals, how to score leads to do deals, how to talk to sellers properly, how to talk to different kinds of sellers, which is the same way I used to be focused on the pounds of pressure I was putting into the ground, where my knee needs to be, all those things. So. Thanks for listening to the podcast, by the way. Awesome. This first deal you did where you got a $50,000 wires, was this like a land deal that you accidentally came across? No. Like was it an assignment or double closing or had you taken title to it or tell me about that? Yeah. So we took title and then we listed it on the market and before it actually like went live, an agent or something saw it and they made an offer immediately. So that's how we sold it. So yeah, we did take title to it and no double close. It was just a standard flip. Was that kind of like a fluke or does that kind of thing happen regularly still? It still happens regularly. When you first start doing this, you start to feel like it's a fluke. The way I look at it is like this. Once you compile enough data, then you can pretty much predict your results. Once you have enough data, once you've sent enough mail, once you've sent enough text messages, the same seller comes through in like almost the same cycle. So I know like, okay, if we send this amount of mail towards this place and we write the mailer like this, then what's going to come back is this result. And you only know that after you compile data, which is why I always tell people, like, if you just send out like three or four thousand mailers and you expect to hit the lottery, that's not going to happen. You have to be able to compile data and then audit that data and be like, OK, what is this thing telling me and how do I respond to it? And then how do I double down on it so that way I can have some predictable results for myself? I feel like some people look at it like, you know, it is what it is. It's a lottery. And that's not the case. to me, after you have a certain amount of data points, you close a certain amount of deals, you can quite literally predict what's going to come in. You don't know when, but I do know if I send this kind of mail and I do it this way in these kinds of markets and talk to these people and I'm aggressive, the deals will come back the same way. You've done deals in like almost every state, right? Yes. That's interesting. Cause like collecting data, I get that if it's in like one market, but you're in all these different markets, how do you collect that much data from every market to predictably know what will happen in Maryland versus California versus whatever the state you're in. That just comes with experience, you know, and just sending a ton of mail. I'm sure you've sent tons and tons of mailers as well. So, I mean, the more mail you send, the more people you talk to, the more experience you get with following up, scoring your leads, the more experience you get with just execution consistently, the better you'll be. It really is like throwing a jab or putting up a jump shot. Well, I know in 2025, things have changed for a lot of people anyway. You know, a lot of the stuff that I hear and have seen with the deals that I've been funding is that stuff is just selling slower than anticipated. Like it's just kind of sitting on the market longer. Have you seen that at all? Or is it just as strong as ever for you? No, I haven't seen it. But it's because we put a really, really strong focus on our marketing and who we're partnering up with. And I feel like a lot of people were in the game of just self-listing and just hopefully it'll sell. And hey, here's the GPS coordinates, go out to the property. But the way that I approach selling properties is the same way that Porsche would approach selling one of their cars. If you have a GTS that you're selling, you're not going to call the dealership and say, hey, I'm interested in this car. And they say, oh, yeah, just go look. It's on the lot right there. No, they're going to walk you through it. You want a coffee? Do you want water? Do you want this? even though we can't do all that exactly. But I partner with brokers who I know are going to take our buyers through a certain kind of process. And I partner with brokers who I know are extremely trusted in those markets. So that way, I don't even have to deal with that. And then on top of that, when we're going to sell our properties on market, I'm looking at the marketing. So all these 20 or 30 other listings that we have on here, I want to make sure that ours looks the best. Well, how do I make sure ours looks the best? We have to make sure that our pictures look the best, our drone shots. We have to make sure that our listing descriptions are telling a story. And not just telling a story, but telling a story to the highest likely buyer profile. So if we're selling a parcel of hunting land, are we just showing an overlay on data tree? Or are we showing a very specific shot of the land going into the road, ATV on it? There's a deer over here. You got a guy holding a picture. He's hunting and he's smiling like this. How are we framing it for people? What's the story that we're telling? And then every property you sell should be you selling a dream. You're selling a dream to the highest likely buyer profile. So when you think of it like that, your properties are going to move. Is it hard for you to find brokers that will consistently do this for you? Because I know there's like a big range of quality out there. And sometimes you just don't know until you hire one and see how they do. And if they do great, you just work with them again and again. But do you have certain people established now? It's like, Hey, I know this person's going to rock. I'm always going back to them. Or do you still kind of have to find new people and strike out now and then? It's not easy to find really good brokers. But after you've done a couple of deals with some guys, I keep them on my Rolodex and we keep calling them, keep doing deals with them. And then we say, okay, hey, we just did this deal. We just made money together. Let's do it 10 more times. And then we keep doing it. And this is where people have to be extremely careful. It's an interview process. And you're working with a good broker. It's like working with an A player. And it really is an interview process. And you only know... They might tell you, hey, this property can sell at $300,000. But really, if you're going to sell it quickly is going to sell at 230, as an example. So then you need to get it under contract at 120. I've had several brokers that outprice themselves and they don't really know what they're talking about. And there's times still where we have to be aggressive and say, nope, we're not listing at 300. We have to list it at 230. Oh, well, you should really list it at... And then we list it at 230 and it sells in a week. So it's just also getting more aggressive with your pricing. And like I said, there are some brokers that would prefer to just have the listing and have it sit for two years and they don't really care. But we're in the game of buy, sell, buy, sell as fast as possible. So another reason why you're saying people are having a harder time selling their properties, I've seen a lot of people just completely overly aggressively price their property. Why are you listing it that high? But it's because you have this hope and feeling that this is the life-changing deal. This is everything. I can make 500 grand on this deal. So you list it way too high and then it sits for six months. And once it sits for that long, now it's not as hot anymore. So as soon as we list the property, I'm trying to get it sold as fast as possible so that way it doesn't go over the 100 day mark. Because once it goes over the 100 day mark, I've always seen leads, calls, everything like that just starts to go down, it starts to go down, it starts to get very difficult to market it properly as well as time goes on. So. This $50,000 example, your first deal where you got that wire, it sounds like this was one that you bought, you took title to and it sold really quickly. How would you replicate that right now? Like what exactly are you looking for and what kind of markets, what would the numbers need to look like? Because I know a lot of people listening would love to know how to just like push a button and make that happen or push a series of buttons or whatever they have to do to like reliably do that. I think the struggle I've been seeing is a lot of people are doing this stuff that did work six to 12 months ago, but like there's this slowdown, there's the higher interest rates, there's political stuff going on, there's talk of economic recession, all this stuff. So things literally are changing month to month now in terms of slowing down. How would you handle that? I've been lucky to be through some market changes and things happening and presidency changes and all these things through running this business. Don't get me wrong. I've definitely had some downturns, some down quarters for sure. But I've also been able to stay consistently profitable because I just follow the rules. My rules are any market that we pick, the sole comps are selling in 100 days or less. they have some pretty good marketing. And we're acquiring these properties for at least the range of 35 to 40K. If I'm in the range of 35 to 40K, I can sell for double. And then that's solid profit for me. When we start doing these deals, we're talking about six-figure profits, all those things. My minimum offer price is usually like 100 grand. And then really, it's just consistent marketing from there. Now, it's so layered because it's also like, how are you getting leads in? Because you need leads in order to close deals. And that's one thing that we really focus on as well is just how our public perception and how our company looks when sellers see us. And so I pay very close attention to how we write the mailer, close attention to how the website looks when they go to it. They actually have lead magnets. So we give them books, resources to read, and it builds more trust. And not only that, but we also capture their email from that. So there's a lot of things that we do within our business just to make sure that we're squeezing the juice out of all of our marketing systems, right? Every single one. So whether it's text or mail, that's what we do. And then even from there, just making sure that you're with the right title companies. Title companies can make or break your deal. I've dealt with some title companies before that. They'll see how much you're making. And if you keep going with the same title company and you don't take care of them, I had to learn this the hard way. So now I send them lunch or I send them some cookies or I send them something, a nice treat, because they don't really make a lot of money. And so they see some kid is calling you, he's making 70 grand, 80 grand, you see this consistently, you're going to start to get upset. And so just making sure that you're with the right title company and that you're taking care of all your people. And then it goes to brokers, making sure you have the right brokers, making sure your photos are 10 out of 10, and then sales, selling the property and making sure that the buyer has a really good buying experience and wants to make an offer. What do these title companies do if you don't take care of them? Do they just tank your deal or something? I've had that happen a couple of times where they're like, yeah, we can't do this. We can't take your deal anymore. Can't do it. What's the reason? Exactly. No reason. It kind of makes me mad because I'm like, I've dealt with this before. I dealt with this a couple of years back. It hasn't happened since, but I did have to learn the hard way. I talked to the head attorney. I was like, I don't understand why I can't. He was like, well, first of all, your name looks weird. He said to me, first of all, your name looks weird. I see you coming in here. You're making all this money. You've used us a couple of times. I was taking title to some stuff, but then I also started double closing with them too. And they didn't like the double closing either. He was like, yeah, your name is weird. I don't know what's going on with this. We're not going to take these deals anymore. Don't send us deals anymore. And I realized it was because I wasn't taking care of them because now when we. We'll say, hey, what's your favorite lunch? What's a good local spot around there? And they'll say it. And then we'll send them some food or we'll be like, do you guys like chocolate chip cookies or whatever? We'll send them some stuff. And so that's what this business is about, like making those like deep local connections and local relationships. Because now instead of people saying they won't take my deals, I get calls all the time on like, hey, there's a seller. They have this issue. I know you can help. Here's the information. Here's their number. Boom, boom, boom. And I've gotten deals like that. Wow. Has it been a problem often just because your name? Like, that's weird. Like, okay, you bought me lunch. So I don't think your name is weird anymore. Like, it's just weird that that would make that kind of thing an issue. And that just a treat fixes that. That's just really bizarre. It is. But then I realized that these people are so underpaid, you know, like they don't make any money. And all day they're dealing with millions and millions of dollars in closings. Right. And I guess it just never occurred to me that like, maybe they're making $20 an hour. Right. But you see a $500,000 HUD statement. It's kind of hard to process, especially if you're burned out. And this has been with different title companies. So like example, like the ones that were like, oh, we're not going to do anymore. I just stopped dealing with them. But then in the future, I was like, okay, everyone else you work with, let's aim to take care of them and so on and so forth. Working in so many different states, is it safe to assume you kind of are focusing on just a handful of states now? Or like, why work in so many states over the years? Is it just to kind of figure out, hey, I don't know what's here until I try it. Like, is that your thought process or? Exactly. That was my initial thinking. And as I've gotten older in my business, I definitely niche focus on a few different states, a few different markets that I like to be in. Have you come across any states where you're just like, no, never again? This was horrible because of that, that, that. Or is it more just, this state is better? A couple. Oregon. I don't really like Oregon very much. Oh, really? My personal experience. I've heard people making a lot of money there. But when I went to Oregon, there was FEMA floodplain law. And it's like 200 years. So like all the properties were worth less. I think it was in a particular county, but it just turned me off. And then just like any like really, really rural or desert area, I'm not doing it. Not doing it at all. Won't do it. Did you try it and it didn't go well? Or is it just not sound appealing? I had a property a few years ago in... Funny enough, it was actually Oregon too. It was like 40 acres, but it was like a desert lot. And I don't even remember what the numbers were on this, but the agent, this is what I'm talking about, right? He was like, this is going to sell super quick, 30 days. Thing ended up sitting for 150 plus days. And it was a piece of trash. And I was like, I don't want to buy property like this anymore. So now I just focus on quality assets. That's it. If this is something that I would put into my own portfolio, then I will do it. I've gotten to the point now where I won't just do a deal to do a deal. And I think when you just do a deal to do a deal, you can find yourself in very tricky situations. And I will say, every time I did a deal just because I'm like, okay, I just want to get these deals done, I made a mistake every single time. But every time I sat back and I was tactical and I follow my rules and I follow my strategy and I was analytical, I made a ton of money. So what is considered not just doing a deal to do a deal? What has to be true for you to say, yes, this is good enough because of blank. For me, it's over $20,000 in profit. That's cardinal rule. I won't do any deal under that. Won't do it. And also what makes just to do a deal to do a deal, it means you're kind of forcing it to happen, right? I don't do a deal if I haven't turned over every stone, if we haven't, depending on the deal, but survey, perk test, talk to neighbors, have someone actually walk the property physically, make sure there's nothing going on, nothing wrong with it. Because I've had some horror stories to where I'm like, Like, oh, I didn't turn over every stone. And now, you know, I'm not going to make as much money as I thought I was going to make on this. Are your deals ever involving like a subdivide or entitlements or anything like that? Or how complicated will you get with your deals? Yeah, I've dabbled in that stuff. The standard flip model is the best cash generator that you can have when you're building. You can make multiple seven figures in profit per year, just flipping standard. And the cash conversion cycles are very short if you're doing it correctly. Are you ever selling with owner financing or is it just selling for cash? I did one in New Mexico a few years ago, and I still collect money on that one today. But I sold it on order of financing. Yeah. Besides that, no. So I know you had mentioned the first time we talked that you had had some success in Maryland, which I thought was really interesting. Not that I've heard anything wrong with it, but I just never really hear people talk about Maryland. Have you ever tried other states in New England? What was it about Maryland that you think makes it work so well for you? I've done deals in that whole area, the MV area, done deals, all those areas. When I first started sending mail there, I didn't actually hear about anyone doing deals there. I didn't. And actually, when we went to the title company, the guy said that he had never seen any deals like that. The way we were doing it, he'd never seen it. And so I thought that was interesting. And yeah, I did multiple deals there. And I feel like there was a good amount of demand at the time for sellers that wanted to sell their properties. And we did very well, cleaned up over the course of a year. Is it still the kind of thing where there's not that many people there? I don't know how it compares to other places you've worked. Yeah, no, not anymore. Because I did tell a few people about, look at this, where I got for this deal in Maryland. And then before I know it, hey, do you have this broker in Maryland? Do you have this broker in Maryland? Everyone started asking me and people still ask me today, like, do you have this broker in Maryland? Do you have this title company in Maryland? So I started telling people about it. And once I started telling people about it, I'm not going to say I discovered that market, but I definitely was one of the first to be there because no one was sending there. Like none of my colleagues, none of my peers that I was talking to at the time were doing deals in Maryland. So yeah, well, that kind of leads me to the next discussion about competition. I know there's just a lot more land investors out there today than there were three years ago versus five years ago versus 10. Does competition change anything about how you do anything? Like, do you have to offer more or do more creative things to get deals? Or have you found that just a rising challenge in the business or has it not really been bothering you? So with anything that I do, I always stay in my lane and be the best I can be. And I find that when you're doing that, I'm just competing with me and I'm still profitable. I'm still making money. And I'm not really worried about what that guy is doing or that guy is doing. I'm just internalizing and being the best I can possibly be. So first of all, I have that mindset and I don't ever think about saturation or competition. There's nothing about it. Now, second, just in the land flipping community, right? It's pretty small. It's not that big. And so out of all the people that know about this, there's probably 30% of the people that are actually doing it, doing it consistently. Out of that 30%, there's probably like 10% that are actually pretty good at it. And then even out of that 10%, there's probably even less that are doing it at a certain level. And so when it comes to saturation, I don't really worry about that. I just don't focus on it. Now, I do focus on other people's systems. I do think about, okay, what does your back end look like? And how many deals does that lead to? What are the KPIs that you're tracking? How many conversations are you having to lead you to this end number? I do look at those things and I have those conversations, but I don't look at it from a computational perspective, right? Because I have my goals. I know where I'm going. If I make $2 million and you make $3 million, I'm not going to be upset about that. It doesn't matter. And so when people get like, oh, this, I got to be like, no, you don't. Right. It doesn't matter. So that's the way I think about it. Has it ever happened where you have to go head to head with another land investor or like you're talking with the seller and like the deal is almost done and they're like, yeah, I just got this other offer for 10 grand more than you. So I'm going to go with them. Like, does that ever happen to you or not really? Yes. Multiple times. And that's why we put such a big focus on understanding our seller profiles and building an extreme amount of rapport with sellers and almost befriending them. We put a very, very healthy focus on that. And there's a way that you do it. And there's also a way that you do it based upon that particular person. You can't build rapport with Sally the same way you build rapport with Bob. They're two different people. And so understanding just human interaction, human psychology, how to talk to people, how to build rapport, how to become friends with someone, that has saved us a lot of money. It's made us a lot of money. Because most land investors just do things on a transactional basis. And I actually find that most people are just transactional people. And so when you aim to have genuine relationships, genuine conversations, and someone feels that you're genuinely trying to help you, when it comes time to that crunch time, then it will be easier for you to get a deal done. I know what you mean. You definitely can pretty quickly pick up on what's working with somebody when you're talking to them in terms of building rapport, like if something's landing well versus not. I think of people out there who maybe might be introverts or like they just don't like it on the phone and that kind of thing. What do you think they should do? Is the answer just get over it, get on the phone and practice, practice, practice? Or is there some other way that they can make this work for them? Or is it just like tough? You got to get better at sales these days? No, I mean, the question is, do you want to make money or not? Right? Oh, I don't want to be on the phone. Do you want to make money or not? I can tell you that this business changed my life, has changed the trajectory of my family's future. My child will never have to work if she doesn't want to ever. She will only do what she wants to do. My wife, same thing. And that gives me a lot of power. And this has happened because of this business. And so if you don't want to do that, if you don't want to change the trajectory of your future, if you don't want to secure your financial freedom, you don't want to secure that, don't. But if you do get on the phone and be as aggressive as possible, talk to people, learn, learn, learn, and face forward into the ground until you get those deals done. That's what I would say. And you just have to be willing to do it. If you want to be successful in anything, you have to have good communication skills. Even with all the AI and everything like that, if you can't see someone and shake your hand and look them in the eyes and do that. You're missing out on a lot. If you can't have a conversation with someone and you're worried about, oh, well, what if they curse me out? What if they say this? It doesn't matter, right? I mean, you're digging for gold. That's how you look at this. You're digging for gold. Okay, cool. I'm going to find some coal, but I will find the gold, right? And so just having that confidence in yourself, regardless of if you're an introvert or not, just being confident. What is your preferred marketing channel or channels right now? Is it direct mail or how are you reaching out to people? Yeah, direct mail and SMS as well. And we're testing something with direct mail as well that I think actually I saw you post about this, where when you send the direct mail, we can track them and then we can advertise them on social media. The rocket print thing? Are you doing something else? Rocket print. Yeah, I've been with rocket since I started. How long ago did you start that? That a month ago. So I don't even have enough data to report yet. Yeah, I was going to be the next question if it's working or not, but you know that stuff takes time yeah it sounds like a cool idea it's just such a new thing i haven't heard like any big stories of success or not one way or the other so i can report back in like six months so yeah cool man awesome so when you think about direct mail and then sms and then as this other online ad thing with rocket print is one of those things like the primary one and then the other one is the secondary one i love direct mail i mean direct mail has made me so much money. I mean, text is great, but direct mail will always just be just for the profile of person that we're dealing with. They're going to open a letter. They're going to read it. They're going to process it. They're going to reach out to you. It's not as in your face and you can write it in a certain way that just speaks professionalism. It speaks, I want to help. It speaks, here I am, give me a call. And when it speaks that, it's just a lot less abrasive than a cold call or a text. Now, it doesn't mean I won't do the other things because however you're going to get leads is right? But the style of mail, I just enjoy. And none of these marketing channels can someone sign the contract and send it back besides mail. So I've had that happen multiple times. And that's why I'll never stop sending mail because I've had some home runs. I mean, never talked to this person ever, but they signed the contract, sent it back, and we submit title. And then here I am making 70 grand. And so because of that, I will always be sending direct mail. So you're doing blind offers then? Yes. Blind offers. I've tested multiple different things. A check letter template, one page letter of interest, depending on the size of the deal. Blind offers, range offers. The thing I've seen to work best is blind. Yeah. Is this still working well in 2025? I asked because I was just on a call with a group of about six or eight different land investors. And like all of them across the board was saying that blind offers were not working for them in 2025. It's always hard to make any bold statement like that about anything because like, it depends on how much you're offering. What does your template say? What market are you looking at? All this stuff. Yeah. But have you found blind offers working less at all in 2025 or is it just as good as ever? I've definitely had times where it wasn't working. And so I had to recalibrate and figure out why it wasn't working. And what I found is that it's not working because this thing looks like how everyone else's looks. What are we actually doing to get a seller to open it? Am I doing anything to call them to action to open it or is it just like a double window that doesn't look like a bill? So when you put things like, call to action to open the thing, when you put certain writing in there, you talk about how you can help, where you've been, who you've helped, you talk about some of those things in the mailer, you're way more likely to get a call than if you're just taking some template and just going to RocketPrint or any company and just like, okay, I just want to send out mail and whatever. That's what I've seen to work. It's just better branding, framing your offer in a way that you can help. And that's what I've seen to work. I see how things are getting more competitive, more expensive in terms of mail, for example. Mail has always felt like the easiest one to implement. It's just not as time consuming. And I feel like it's really scalable without having to hire a bunch of people. I agree. Like I've always liked mail, but I feel like it's performed less and less in terms of the ROAS and that kind of thing. And that's just been my experience and others that I've talked to. I remember back in the day, like when I got started, I had 3000 bucks to my name and that was more than enough for me to like start and make it work. Then I started saying, you know, I just don't know if that's enough these days. Maybe you need 5,000 bucks. Maybe You need 10,000 bucks. In your opinion, if somebody has like $5,000, can they make this work? And like, what should they be doing exactly? Like what kind of marketing should they employ? Is it direct mail still or is it something else? Yeah. So that's a different answer that I have because with direct mail, that takes a lot of time. And when you have $5,000, you don't really have time, right? And so you need to focus your energy on getting leads in as fast as possible. So if I was in that situation today and I only have 5K and I was like, okay, how do I figure this out? Then what I would do is turn on a cold caller and I would sit there and call people all day. I'll pull a list. I'll skip trace it. I'll make sure it's a really good market. And I will be calling people all day, every day, all day, every day, all day, just calling people, talking to people, having conversations, getting leads in. And then once we make money, I'd hire someone to cold call for me. And we test with cold calling as well. And it's also a speed to lead thing, right? Mail takes longer. And what I found usually is that the quality of mail lead, just from what I've seen, has been higher. Right. But when you're cold calling and you're texting, you're hitting that person that day. If you just do the work, you can talk to several people in a week. Right. You can have good conversations with 150, 200 people a month. Right. That's what I would do if I only had the 5k. Yeah, totally. It's something you can answer to me. I just hear from people from time to time. They come to me and they're like, I've got a couple thousand dollars. Like I'm working a full-time job. I've got two kids. I'm a single parent. I don't know what to tell them. Cause on one hand, it's like, yeah, you can do it. But on the other hand, it's like, maybe you can't do it. Maybe this is just not a good time in life for you. I don't want to be unrealistic. I don't want to lead them down a path that they really can't do. But at the same time, it's not really up to me to say whether they can't do something. As somebody who's trying to encourage people out on the internet, is there ever a time when you should just say, no, don't do it? And if so, what would those circumstances have to be, do you think? No, I don't think there's ever a time to say, no, don't do it. I feel like everyone's circumstances is different. And I personally work with a lot of clients who come from all different backgrounds, executives, family men, working jobs, students. I've worked with everyone. And I mean, we come up with plans for them to get to their goal based upon what they're doing now. So I kind of know how to curate that. So let's say like a family man. All right. Well, you're a family man. You work a nine to five job. Okay. You want to get out of this. You want to start making 150, 200 grand a year plus with the land flipping business? Well, first of all, you have to understand that you don't have time on your side exactly. And you may not have money on your side. I would probably have a person like that learn how to really dissect markets and send small amounts of mail and expect it to take a while before they get the first deal. So I always say to general rules, six to eight months, you have to be ready to sustain the mail for you to get deals back. And people that say, mail doesn't work. Well, you sent out the mail for two or three months. How long have you been sending it out? That's not even enough data to compile to decipher if it's working or not. I've always found that six to eight months is the general rule. So to answer your question, I don't think that anyone should not do this or quit. Because like I said, if you have the opportunity to become financially free, not have to work for anyone and just live life on your own terms and live life as you've designed and as you think, and you absolutely need to go for it and make it happen. It's not really ever up to me to say like, you shouldn't do it or you can't do it. Like, I just don't know. There's too much about that person that I can't make that determination for them. But it would be more a question of what are you willing to say no to in your life right now? Because you can have anything, but you can't have everything. What sacrifices are you prepared to make? Realistically, can you not see your kids for a little bit? Can you quit your job? Because if the answer is no to those things, if you have to do those, you got to decide what's going to give, you know, like you literally can't be everywhere at once. And at the end of the day, like, it's still not my job to make that decision for them, but maybe it's just helping them understand like, Everybody has the limits to figure out what's going to be the breaking point for you. I'll tell you this. For three years, from the age of 21 to 23, I had a two-bedroom apartment. I lived with my wife, and I had a little cube office in the apartment. For three years, I didn't leave that office. I was making calls. I was talking to people. I was learning. I was growing. I was reading. I did not leave. When I say I didn't go anywhere, I didn't go anywhere until I was like, I'm going to do some traveling. But I sacrificed a lot. I sacrificed family time. I sacrificed sometimes my own health. I kind of disregarded my health at times because I wanted to be the best at this. Every part of the business, I wanted to figure it out and master it, right? And so I didn't leave. I was like, no, I'm not going to leave. I'll work out here and there. But my priority was this. And truth be told, if you want to attain any level of success in this business or anything else in your life, you do have to make certain kinds of sacrifices. It doesn't have to look like that, but it does have to be inherent focus on that craft or whatever it is that you're doing. because if you don't have that, if you're kind of one foot in, one foot out, hoping it'll work, hoping you'll hit the lottery, it will never happen for you. So you got to go two feet in, commit to it, head down, focus, make the sacrifices, take away the family time. Don't go to the fight night. Don't go to the basketball game. Don't do that. Focus on the business, right? And then once you get to a certain point, now you look up and you got a million dollars put to the side or more, and then your life has changed. And so that's what I would recommend for anyone that wants to do this because I don't think there's any circumstance That's that would take you away from doing this. You just had your first child, right? Daughter? I did. Yeah, a little girl. Congrats, by the way. The first time that we were talking on a call about a week ago, we were talking about fatherhood and how we don't want to miss anything. Like even going away to a conference for a couple of days, like you feel like you're missing stuff. You get back and they're like doing things that they weren't doing when you left. And it's like, oh, man, I missed it. That three year span of time where you didn't leave that cubicle. You're starting that over right now when your daughter is a baby. Would you do that? and say, sorry, daughter, I'm going to miss your first three years of life. Oh, that's a really good question. Man, I would have to, you know, because then that puts her in position later on in life to take care of what she needs to take care of. I would have to. I mean, I'm so blessed to be in the position that I'm in to where, don't get me wrong, I still work extremely, extremely hard because I'm still building. But it doesn't look like that anymore. Right. I can hire people to do certain things. I can have way more time freedom that I give myself. Right. But if I knew she was going to turn 18 and not be taken care of, then I would have to. The nice thing is we both have the benefit of hindsight. Like we both know it works for you. So like it was totally worth it. But like, what if you didn't know if it was going to work? Like, what if this is all a waste of time and it takes you three years to figure that out and you lose all your money and your time with your kid? It gets harder to make that decision, right? And, you know, we actually spoke on that earlier and just the internalization, the confidence that you have in yourself. I mean, deep, subconscious, rooted confidence in yourself that you're going to make this happen. Not just like fake, oh, I'm talking about it. No, like deep confidence. I'm going to make this happen. Hell or hot water, this will happen. If you have that confidence in it, it will happen. It will. It may not happen in three years. Maybe it happens in six. But are you willing for it to happen in six? That's the thing. It's not just going to take six months. What if it takes you four years? What if it takes more time than you thought? But if you just stay the path and make this happen, make this happen, focus, focus, focus, focus, do the right thing, get around the right people, talk to the right people. And okay, learn, learn, learn, learn, apply, learn, apply, learn, apply. That's all I did was reading and applying, reading, applying, talking to people, applying. And it happened faster than I thought it would. So any pursuit that I've ever seen just humans on generally, and they were confident, fully focused, and just made the sacrifices and grinded away, I've never seen a single human fail at that pursuit. And maybe it took them years, right? You look at some of the most successful people in the world. They say J.K. Rowling was homeless, but now she has a billion-dollar empire as an example. There's just so many different examples you can pull from to where go pull from these examples, take inspiration from them, apply it to your own life, and make your dreams happen. I think where I struggle with that is I do know of people who sacrificed everything, and it didn't work for them. I know there's absolutely something to what you're saying in terms of like, If I have confidence, if I believe it's going to happen, it's going to happen. Like I've experienced that firsthand. Like I know that's a real thing. Of course. But I also know people who have grinded their lives away and like lost their marriages, lost their businesses. Like it blew up in their face. Mark Twain has a quote. He said, confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation. It's almost like confidence is ignorance in a way. And I think there is some truth to that. Maybe not. Depends on the situation. But I'm trying to balance the motivation side, which I think is totally real and a legit thing with like the realistic side. At the end of the day, I don't think I can really give anybody any answers because I don't know their future and I don't know what they're good at and what they're willing to sacrifice. But I'm one who is not super confident in these things. So that's part of why my brain always asks myself these questions. Yeah, I think it's totally fair to say like anything can happen and there's no guarantees with this. there are not. But I would rather have a no guarantee and still know that I have a shot than have a complete guarantee. And I'm going to be living a life that I don't really want to be living. And that's how I see things. And then I always question when people fail or they fall, especially like you just said, your business goes bankrupt or you get a divorce or whatever, these bad things happen. A lot of people just kind of fold after that and they just kind of give up and they fall into things that they shouldn't fall into. Look, things are going to happen in life. I mean, I'm only 25 years old, but I've had worlds of experiences. So I know that things are going to happen. And I've been kicked in my teeth a lot. I've been kicked in my teeth. I've had bad things happen. We all do, right? But I just get up when it does happen. I've been at low lows, but I just get up, right? And that takes me to high highs. That's what it takes. I've gone through just mental health, things like that. But we're all human. And at the end of the day, for me, the only thing that keeps me moving is to know that every single thing around me that's happening is because of me. And if something is happening that I don't want to happen, it's because of me. So it's on me to change it. And that's the kind of confidence that you have to have in yourself. And this kind of self-awareness to know that all your circumstances are because of you. And if you know that, then you also know that where you can get yourself to is because of you as well. Have you ever had something you pursued all in with total confidence and it didn't work out? Or has it always worked for you so far? I never had something that didn't work out and I just stayed doing it. No. Yeah. It doesn't sound like, you know, the answer to this, but I'm just curious, like what it would take for you to throw in the towel? Like if there is ever such a place where it's like, hey, I've tried it for X number of years, but this money into it, it just isn't working. I give up. Or does your mind just not go there? If I didn't have fun with it, but I mean, I think I talked about this earlier. I wouldn't say I threw in the towel with track, but I just found something else, right? That's the only thing I would say kind of, but no, I don't have any quit in me. Whatever it is, I can go all day. So if I love it, I like to do it. I'm passionate about it. I'm doing it. So you're an educator in land now, and you've got your brand that you're building. You're on Instagram. You're on YouTube. When did you decide to do that? What's your long-term trajectory or your goal with getting into that whole business? It's funny. It's something I stumbled into on accident. But I had people asking me in 2023 what I was doing because I was posting on TikTok just to really practice public speaking because I wanted to get better at my speaking skills. So I was just posting videos on TikTok. and I remember I went on a three month trip with my wife in 2023. We went all over the world, Dubai, Spain, Italy, Turkey, we went everywhere. We were gone for three months. And the whole time I was just posting TikToks. And then I was talking about the deals that I was doing as I was traveling. And if you scroll through my TikTok, if you find it, you'll see that. You'll see me talking about stuff like that. And I just had people start to ask me about it. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I had someone reach out directly. Hey man, I really want to learn how to do this. I actually did a couple of deals, but I see what you're doing. I want to learn to do it. And so I took my first client. And then after that, I took my second client. Both of those clients ended up doing extremely well. And then I started posting on YouTube. I started posting more on Instagram, started posting more on TikTok. And then it became this thing where I was helping other people make money. And I realized that, man, I actually get a lot of fulfillment out of this. And when someone calls you and tells you like, no, man, you actually changed my life. That's huge. It's crazy. Because I met you, I was able to do this for my mom or do this for my dad or pay for this or quit my job. And I've had all these stories. I quit my job. Hey man, this is the most money I've ever made in a month. I've never made this much money. That is just so fulfilling. It's even more fulfilling than the 100K deal, 75K deal to me because it's like you're paying it forward now. You asked me about my trajectory. Yeah. Where do you want to go with it? Again, just being the best I can be, right? Being the best I can be and being the biggest I can be as well. Anything that I do, I just want to be the best at it. So I just do my best to help as many people as possible, do as many deals as possible, make as many good connections as possible, and then be as big as I can be. You know, I've got definitely some targets and some goals that I've set and we'll smash them. So on the land business, do you have any aspirations of doing anything else? Like, do you want to take your cash printing machine and use that to like buy some other type of property or do something else? Or are you just going to stay full on and land forever? Yeah, I've been investing my money since I was 21. I bought a lot of Bitcoin. I've invested a lot in that. And I am looking at short term rentals, long term rentals as well. I've dabbled, but I think over the next few years, I really will build like a proper portfolio in the next few years. So just cash flowing assets. Yeah. Portfolio of round properties or something else? Rental properties primarily, especially now that the 100% bonus depreciation is back. Yeah. I'll be buying a few this year for sure. So send me some deals. I mean, if people want to connect with you or reach out to you or follow you or anything like that, what's the best place for them to go and do that? Yeah. YouTube. You just look up Olufemi at Jose as well. You'll find my YouTube channel. And then Instagram is the Olufemi B as well. And those are the two places you can find me, reach out to me and engage. I will include the links to all of your stuff in the show notes. If anybody wants to check that out, retipster.com forward slash 229. You can find links to YouTube and Instagram and TikTok and all that stuff. Thanks again for coming on. It's awesome to talk to you, get to know you a little bit better. Everybody listening and watching, thanks for being here. Talk to you next time. Thank you.