May the Record Reflect
May the Record Reflect is a skills-focused podcast for trial lawyers who want to get better at what really happens in the courtroom. Hosted by the National Institute for Trial Advocacy, each episode features experienced judges, advocates, and legal educators sharing practical guidance on trial advocacy, depositions, witness examination, oral communication, jury selection, and courtroom presence—along with ethics, professionalism, and lawyer well‑being. Whether you’re preparing for trial, handling high‑stakes hearings, or looking to sharpen your advocacy skills, May the Record Reflect delivers insights you can put to work right away.
May the Record Reflect
23. My Landmark SCOTUS Case with Jo Carol LaFleur Nesset-Sale
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In Episode 23 of the podcast, we’re joined by Jo Carol Nesset-Sale, who as a young woman brought forth a pregnancy discrimination lawsuit that found its way to the United States Supreme Court. Her case, Cleveland Board of Education v. LaFleur, was part of the societal sea change that resulted in women being able to remain in the workforce as their families grew. Jo Carol’s experience lit a fire in her to become a lawyer herself and transform the lives of her clients she serves.
Topics
2:09 The story behind the SCOTUS case
9:47 How pregnant women faced discrimination
11:49 Maternity leave, benefits in the 1970s
13:05 The lawsuit begins
15:07 Why Jo Carol fought back
19:15 Equal rights movements
22:28 Legal team’s strategy for SCOTUS
24:25 What the Court ruled on
26:25 Impact of ruling
30:45 Becoming a lawyer
34:18 Jo Carol’s other 15 minutes of fame
36:05 Pathways in law
41:00 Guidance for law students, new lawyers
43:21 Bias in the courtroom
44:15 Career advice
46:11 Signature sign-off question
Quote
“I certainly saw that, at a moment in time, if you can have the intersection of an aggrieved person who’s been unfairly treated and a lawyer who’s willing to take the case and charge no fee, that wonderful things can happen, that change can be made.” Jo Carol (LaFleur) Nesset-Sale
Recommended Resources
Cleveland Board of Education v. LaFleur
From Sideline to Frontline: The Making of a Civil Rights Plaintiff
She Was a Teacher. She Got Pregnant. Her Case Ended Up at the Supreme Court