Building a business from networking - with David Bell of PCD Group Artwork

Change Work Life

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Change Work Life

Building a business from networking - with David Bell of PCD Group

December 17, 2024 • Jeremy Cline/David Bell • Episode 195

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#195: David Bell is a founder and director of PCD Group and has over 15 years of experience in advising high net worth clients on personal tax and financial planning. He explains what goes into creating an effective networking event, what it’s like having a hobby that is also a business, and when to go full-time with a business you’re creating.

What you’ll learn

[01:41] How the PCD Group helps professionals in the Private Wealth sector network.
[02:55] The problems with cocktail party networking.
[05:38] What goes into creating an effective networking event.
[07:31] The benefits of business cards and why some people don’t use them.
[09:55] How David became an expert in networking.
[13:45] The challenge of starting a networking group.
[15:50] How to know which opportunities to focus on.
[19:36] The intentional steps behind career changes.
[21:41] Building sales skills and other lessons from previous jobs.
[25:17] How to not take business changes personally.
[26:18] Having a hobby that is also a business.
[29:55] When to go full-time with a business you’re creating.
[33:00] The benefits of having a fallback plan.
[33:55] How the pandemic affected networking businesses.
[39:15] How a business's finances change when it moves online.
[41:56] The effort that went into keeping a networking business running during Covid.
[43:26] The current state of the PCD Group and what the future looks like.

Resources mentioned in this episode
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For the show notes for this episode, including a full transcript and links to all the resources mentioned, visit:

https://changeworklife.com/building-a-business-from-networking/

Re-assessing your career? Know you need a change but don't really know where to start? Check out these two exercises to start the journey of working out what career is right for you!

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Sometimes the best ideas for a business just come from noticing what problems or challenges the people around you are facing in the industry in which you're already working. If you can provide a solution to those challenges, and you can do it in a way which already matches your own personal strengths, well, that may be the formula for success. And this week, we've got a great example of that in action. I'm Jeremy Cline, and this is Change Work Life. Hello, and welcome to the Change Work Life podcast, the show that's all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. I'm a career coach, and in each episode, my guests and I bring you tips, strategies, and stories to help you enjoy a more satisfying and fulfilling working life. One of the best ways to come up with business ideas is to find existing challenges or pain points. These might show up anywhere, including in your day-to-day work. In the case of this week's guest, he identified that it was difficult for young professionals who work in the private wealth space to find effective networking opportunities, and so he created his own solution. David Bell is the founder of PCD GROUP, which helps private wealth professionals connect and do business more effectively. David, welcome to the podcast. Nice to be here, Jeremy. So, PCD stands for Private Client Dining, which suggests a certain foodie element, which appeals to me. Why don't you tell us about the business and what are the service lines? Sure. So, yeah, we're predominantly a networking group for professional advisers dealing with high-net-worth clients. We've always used in the networking events the dinner, a seated dinner as a kind of format point, if you like, that differentiated us from other groups. And it did come out of, as you correctly identified, me looking at what was available when I was networking as a young professional and identifying that often a cocktail reception format didn't really lend itself to creating decent conversations with people that you could build a rapport with and, and get to know and do business with. So we started off many, many years ago doing dinner events in London, and it's kind of expanded from there. But taking the seated dinner format as a central way of networking and building rapport over an evening. Since then, we've also added different service lines to the business to help people grow their brands digitally, to help them get more referrals from other professionals to complement the live events. But the seated dinners are what people know us for and what people enjoy. So what was it that you identified in the standard sort of cocktail parties that was deficient, and how did you solve that with the seated dinners? I think that the type of conversation you have in a sort of crowded cocktail reception space is not ideal. I think that you generally have a sort of surface-level answer if you like. You know, you you'll exchange some high-level pleasantries, but people are naturally also quite distracted in that environment because they see people perhaps coming in. They're getting jostled perhaps a little bit for space. It's not a calm environment. And what we like about sitting down for dinner is that it allows people to mix more freely as well in the sense of, we generally have 150 to 200 guests for dinner, so we have quite a large cocktail reception to start our events. But when people go through for dinner, that gives us the opportunity to mix naturally beyond the people you arrive with or know already, but without having to go through that process of approaching people necessarily and reaching out, which can be a challenge. So people like the fact that you're guided through the event, if you like. On each table, I try and create a mixture of people where there's a central logic to where they're being sat, but it's bringing them into contact with new people. And I find that when people sit for dinner, they know they're going to be there for a certain period of time, so perhaps an hour and a half or even two hours, and it gives people that bit of time and space to actually have a more relaxed conversation, to find out about the person, to actually identify where they might do business. And with the absence of that, in the cocktail format, you might have had a quick chat with someone and moved on before you've actually unearthed where the value lies. And also, from a practical perspective, I often found that with a cocktail reception, it would maybe start at 6 PM. By 8 PM, people are basically going for the train, or they're not there for the full evening. Whereas if you have a reception followed by a formal dinner, it means that people are probably there between 6 and 10 PM. There's more chance to interact. There's more chance to have those quality conversations. And so, yeah, that was really what we identified and have really honed in on. Some people are naturally sociable, gregarious, and good in these situations. Other people, particularly if you're more junior in your career, perhaps less practiced. So, did you give any, like, here's how you can get the most out of this event guidance to people who attended? Yeah, I mean, a little bit. I mean, we issue an advanced guest list, so people know who's coming in advance. They can make requests of me for introductions and seating. I'm visibly hosting the event. So, I try and make sure when people arrive, they get a proper welcome, and they connect to people who are relevant in the room. So, I'll spend most of the time in the reception walking people up to each other saying, 'Oh, have you met?', and making little introductions and encouraging conversation to flow, which again is a differentiator because the majority of events that people don't enjoy, they're almost walking into a room, there's no one really hosting them, there's no one actually helping them navigate the event. And so, we try and put as much as we can into whether it's people feeling prepared by knowing who's going to be in the room, requesting introductions, me helping them navigate the event. But we also try and give people the basics if they are coming through and more younger in their career. I'm still a big fan of business cards. I mean, business cards have almost fallen out of fashion. A lot of people don't carry business cards, but I think there's some good basics that people can do. And we also try and encourage a culture whereby people attending PCD want to help each other more than help themselves first. So, to find out about the other person, to ask the question, to listen, to create value for the other person first. And so, a good tip for young people coming through is, it's fine to ask. People often like talking about themselves anyway. So, a good starting point in a conversation is just to go out and learn, and other things will follow. So, yeah, we do try and support younger people coming through, and we've even started a next-gen lunch club on the same seated format, and people are enjoying working their way through that, honing their skills and then graduating, if you like, to the main networking dinner group. What makes you say that business cards have fallen out of favour? When I go to events now, I carry cards, people often don't. So, the digital cards, which often don't work, are the replacement. People just have got out of the habit, I think, of carrying them. And I went to an event, I went to a media and marketing networking event in SOHO the other week, I met four people before breakfast, we had a good conversation. I offered them a card, none of them were carrying cards, and then nothing has happened since then. And I genuinely think that if they'd been carrying cards, something would have occurred. So, I think the habit of carrying cards is something that has changed and is an important part of networking. The physical reminder of the meeting is the main thing that people miss out if they're not carrying cards. Yeah. I've certainly found that giving the cards out tends to be quite passive, and it's much more effective when you get the contact details of the other people. So, I've started using one of these digital things where someone scans the QR code and, hopefully, there's sufficient internet connection. But then, they're encouraged to add their details in exchange for which they get mine, and so there and then, I've already got their contact details stored electronically. It has to be said it's a little bit of a faff, but it is pretty effective actually. But that's the key point is getting someone else's details. 100%. No, I'll have to follow up with you afterward for those details. But I'm interested in innovation in networking as well. And if digital channels or digital connectivity does work, then great. I'm not old school in that way. But I think it's about just trying to make business development and networking not painful. Make it enjoyable. You know, I enjoy it, and I'm a sociable character, but I think everyone can make their, regardless of their personality, if you like, I think people can find forums and ways of building relationships that work for them, and I'm a big advocate of that. It's not about transforming your personality. It's about saying, what works for you, what do you like, what's your best method, and go for that. And there's lots of different ways you can network, so many different ways. It's just about finding the way that works for you. Let's dig into your backstory and the genesis of the business. What did you want to be when you grew up? Well, my dad was an accountant. There was lots of accountants in the family, and I did an economics degree, so I was kind of mathematical, analytically minded. I resisted the idea of being an accountant when I graduated and, first of all, took a marketing job, but then saw lots of my contemporaries who'd done the chart accountancy zooming on and up the career ladder. And I thought I really should pull my nose and do the accountancy side and went and joined a firm, Dixon Wilson, who happened to focus on private wealth. It was a great firm. They took on 10 trainees every six months, so you had a little cohort of people around you. You did a mixture of different accountancy services from accountancy and audit through to tax, but worked with some really interesting clients. I thought, I liked this private client world, and I also liked connecting with other private banks. I could see the ecosystem, and I found that quite interesting. And so, even as a trainee accountant, I was connecting with others in the sector and building out my mental picture of the different firms and players and operators. And because my first graduate job was in the marketing field, I was naturally leading into that too. And so, completed my three years with Dixon Wilson, knew that I needed something with a bit more of a marketing focus, if you like, than the training that I'd had. But it was a great grounding in the private client tax world and the sector. And I left to actually join a firm, Ingenious Media, who at the time were promoting to financial advisors tax efficient investment schemes and ideas, but it was at that time when that whole world was just basically collapsing. And so, it wasn't a particularly enjoyable place to be, but what it did do is it got me out of accountancy. It made me realize, oh, there is this investment and private wealth world. And shortly after that, joined Merrill Lynch as a wealth planner and joined a great team there with Ken Chapman and found that that wealth planning world in a private bank was great because it leveraged my background in accounting and tax, but being client-facing, being commercial was important, being adaptable, building relationships with intermediaries was important. So, I just found a groove there, really, and had a great three years with Merrill before I joined Lombard Odier in London, who are a great Swiss name, great heritage, great client base, and was running the wealth planning offering there for the UK from London, but travelling to different offices and working with different offices of the group. And so, that exposure at Lombard Odier gave me insight into the international ultra-high net worth offshore centres, that has really been pivotal in the development of PCD. So, it was going beyond the UK market into other centres and how they fit together. It was when I was at Lombard Odier, I'd been running networking dinners in London as a little hobby, doing small dinners, sporting 50 people. But then, when I was going to Geneva often, I thought, well, why not try and bring that dinner format to Geneva? And that concept worked. So, this was back in 2015, and started to grow other locations and promote it to my contacts to come and travel out to. And that idea just slowly took off, and we added new locations. And then by 2016, I'd had a great few years with Lombard and worked with some great colleagues and clients, but sensed that the opportunity to build PCD was there, and it had to be taken. And essentially, I left the bank to build PCD, and also did a bit of consulting on the side. But then by 2018, I was fully into development of PCD and the concept there. The way you describe it there, it all sounds very natural, very flowing. Did it feel like that at the time, or did it feel more like a careen than a career? Yeah. I mean, these things always make sense looking backwards, don't they? But you know, at the time, opportunities present themselves. And I distinctly remember when I'd been building the dinner events as a hobby someone saying to me, 'What are you going to do with this? Are you going to keep on doing it?' And it was at that moment where I thought, normally, these groups that are put together by one person, they do it for a number of years to build their brand until a point when they've got a brand, and then they don't need it anymore. So, they don't need the hassle, or that things change in their life, and they drop it, but I was getting to the point where I thought I've either got to just park this now and move on or double down on it. And I decided to double down on it, partly because I did love events. I did love putting people together in a room and seeing that take off and people interact was something that I knew that I was good at, and it made me different. So, I suppose it does make sense now looking backwards, but it's partly about grabbing opportunities. When I joined Lombard Odier, I could have sat in the London office and just ticked over, but I didn't. I went out to Dubai, I went to different places, I grabbed opportunities that were there, and that led me in a certain direction. And that's partly why I'm where I am. I suppose I didn't sit tight in one place. I took chances, took risks if you like. That's just, I suppose, in my nature. It would have been more comfortable just to stay as a wealth planner in a bank, which is a very respectable and prestigious job. But to go out and strike out and do something, build your own business is something different, but I do get a lot of excitement out of the way that I work now and the new concepts and ideas that we can bring about, I find that very invigorating. You mentioned the different opportunities and taking those opportunities. And I guess there's a few elements to that. There's being aware that there may be these opportunities, and then there's having the presence or just making the decision that you are going to take advantage of these opportunities. And then, there's having an idea as to why they're worth pursuing rather than just really doubling down and crafting your expertise as a wealth planner in a big bank. So, I'm curious as to how all those pieces kind of made themselves present for you. I think these things, they sort of whisper at you a bit. So, like I said, I started in marketing, and I did my accounting training. And then everything from there is a sort of blend of marketing and professional services. And I was aware when I did my accountancy training that while I was perfectly competent, I was a middle-of-the-road accountant or tax adviser, but I was really good at marketing. And people would say,'You're a world-class networker', that was the feedback that was coming back down the pipe. And in some senses in my appraisals, I could have got frustrated with the idea that, well, why are they just talking about the marketing? I want to be that recognised, and you know what it's like in the sector, people recognise technical expertise as a thing with real currency. Marketing is respected, but people at a certain point are trying to become the go-to expert because that's a recognized way of building a practice. And I just kind of acknowledged, I knew I had a strength in marketing and that I didn't have necessarily what it took to be that technical expert, just because the way I'm built. And so, I just thought that's what I pursued was the idea of playing to my strengths. It's never completely obvious, like I made this move to Ingenious, and actually, you could say I was there a year, it didn't really work, but without that move, I wouldn't have got into private banking because it allowed me to become registered with the FCA. It did certain things for me that allowed me to press on, but I was always looking at creating, you know, I never just sat passively and thought this isn't quite working and get stressed about it. I was using the fact that I could go out networking as my kind of superpower in getting to know people and having conversations with people. That's what drives opportunity. If nobody knows who you are or what you could do, it's hard to create opportunities. Whereas I naturally was able to be visible. And I suppose it's coming also at a time where, when I was at Dixon Wilson, LinkedIn, for example, wasn't really a thing. I mean, I remember joining LinkedIn, like 2009 or something, it was a very vanilla CV-driven platform, which now, I mean, if you look at it today, it's transformed into a key social media. Almost any credible professional has to be on there commenting about the trends of the day and building their networks on there. So, I think that I also came along at a time when grabbing these marketing tools and using them to kind of build a network and a brand became more tangible than at any other time previously, where just getting listed in the directories and building your work in a respectable way was the way to do it. Whereas I think today's professional can build business and do marketing in so many different ways. There's new channels now that are more direct-drive. People can own that, if they want to. You know? There's definitely a line of thinking which says that you take a job because there is a particular thing that you want to acquire, be it a skill or a qualification. So, when you joined Ingenious, was that because you knew you wanted to become FCA registered, and that was like the next stepping stone, or was it not quite as intentional as that? Yeah. I mean, I suppose it was. I was coming out of an accountancy practice that focused on private client. Ingenious at the time, and still have got a fantastic office on Golden Square. They were financing films like Avatar, and they had a really exciting story. And the role there for me was to build relationships with intermediaries like private banks and law firms and financial advisers to promote these products. So, networking was at the core. Promotion of ideas was at the core in a funky office in Soho, with a team that was actually at that time very substantial. They had around 20-odd ex-tax advisers who were there, so it wasn't above a broom cupboard trying to flog film schemes. It was a substantial business. So, it was exciting. And it was run by a guy, Patrick McKenna who's an inspirational entrepreneur worth hundreds of millions. And I met Patrick in the interview and all of that. So, the reason I joined there was, it was an enticing world that I'd qualified doing accountancy in a very respectable place. And I just thought, well, when I went to interview at Ingenious, I thought, wow, this is something that just had a bit of zing to it. But then, obviously, once you lifted the bonnet and got in there, and tax rules changed to make these investments impossible to promote, the winds really changed. And then I thought, right, I need to get out of here. And at that point, fortunately, Merrill were looking for someone with a tax background, good quality training, and who was also regulated. And away we went. Were there any lessons that you took from your experience with Ingenious later on? So, I'm thinking the idea of building a business almost on one thing, in their case. I mean, I knew them as these tax-efficient film schemes, which then got closed down. So, is that something that you've then sort of taken that lesson further forward? What I learned that was interesting was, I was coming out of accountancy into an environment in a sales team, essentially. And what I learned was the confidence to phone people up and to promote to sell, that was something I'd never been taught, and to be around people who could sell was quite interesting and exciting. And the principle of picking up the phone, and I was on the phone all day in those roles and going out, setting up meetings. I would cover IFAs in Norwich, and I'd book a day of meetings in Norwich. Now what it taught me was just that sense of, yeah, make it happen. And I think that there was a value in that. Although I was only with them a year, I think being around a sales team and having a sales process and learning of different people how to promote and position. Obviously, I've had to sell, and now I focus on sales at PCD because I'm the one who creates the revenue for the company. I have to sell concepts, and I have to pick up the phone and be proactive. We don't just email people, sometimes you have to go and convince, or you have to go and make things happen. So, yeah, I definitely learned that, but I also learned that my face didn't quite fit in Ingenious in a sense. When I left, I just left out the door. There was no big send-off, there was no card and round of applause. It was just like, you know, right, that's it. You know? But when I went to Merrill, immediately in the swim, got on with people, they really liked me there, I liked the people. What I learned was sometimes your face doesn't fit, but don't worry about it. You do you, which is a very trite phrase right now, but I think there's something in that for people thinking about making a change. Sometimes you make a change and maybe it won't work. But you'll learn something about yourself, and you'll iterate towards the right thing that does work. And it's having confidence in yourself to say, okay, I moved there, okay, it didn't work, but there's nothing wrong with me. Those people there didn't quite jive with me because they saw the world in a different way. But I don't let that knock my confidence. I just say, I just need to find a groove with people who get me and get my value. So, I suppose I always held an idea that I had value and had skill set. It's just about finding the right little hole for that. And sometimes you'll make a leap. Because you don't know when you're interviewing what the personal dynamics in the team are going to be like, what the manager's going to be like, how they're going to perceive you, and what your approach is going to be. Particularly if it's a change in direction, it's not identical with a known environment, which sometimes it has to be. In order to make a change, you need to do something different, and that carries with it a risk. But you can always find your way back to something that fits better. So, that's what I suppose I learned from it, was I picked up some skills, but I also learned, if your face doesn't fit, it's not a reflection of you. Don't worry about it. You will find another group where you're in the groove. I think that's a really valuable lesson. If something doesn't work out, I think the instinctive reaction of someone is that it's down to them. It's somehow their fault. And that isn't necessarily, and maybe isn't even often the case. I did another interview recently where they were talking about redundancy, and they were saying redundancy isn't something that's wrong with you. It was something that happened to you. It's not something that was caused by you. It was your role was made redundant. There was a restructuring, that kind of thing. And it's very difficult not to take these sorts of things personally. But if you can step out of there and just realize, no, that's okay. It's just it didn't work out. Okay. Let's go on to the next thing. Yeah. I think it takes a resilience to make some of these changes, but it's just about keeping in mind what you're doing it for, or how you're trying to progress and get into a better place. So, going back to the origins of PCD Club, you said that it started as a hobby. Now some people go running, some people play a musical instrument, some people bake. You decided your hobby was creating dinners for 50-odd attendees. Right. Yeah, that's right. I suppose, at that time, as a young professional in London, I would be going out every night of the week doing different things. So, I was active in lots of different social groups. I was very interested in politics and current affairs and would often be going out to various groups and social events around politics, around business. I was just active in London trying to tap into everything that was available there, and work-style socialising was an extension of that. So, before PCD, actually, with my wife, Sophie, we set up a group called YP Network, which was actually not industry-specific, but that did social events in different locations like Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club and, Tate Modern and places like that. So, essentially, before PCD, there came just social events and wanting to socialize and network. And I suppose I've always been a bit of an instigator in the sense of, I was always happy to make the first move to suggest something, to gather people together. And I'd always done that through in school and university, just being an instigator to make stuff happen. And that's what I enjoy. And I remember just one of the nights where we did an event at Ronnie Scott's jazz club, and I just remember just such a thrill, getting people together, having just gone six weeks before and booked on a credit card 50 tickets for this one show, and then promote and sold the concept of coming along under a sort of social network event, I just found the thrill of getting a concept together and selling it to people and then them coming along and enjoying it. Just a real buzz, you know? So, it was a hobby in the sense that I wasn't making money out of it per se. I was just looking to cover my costs, and I was prepared to spend a lot of time to make these events happen. Yeah, like I say, not to make megabucks, but just to put it on. But then eventually, you build the brand, and you build the name for it, and then you do, oh, actually, I am making a little bit of money here. I am actually building a customer base. And then, by the time it came to formulate it into PCD Club, I did have the trust of people, and I did have a customer base. And I did always find a new sale, something popping through on PayPal saying someone's paid you, a real thrill. And I think that I'm not a classic entrepreneur. In school, I wasn't selling chocolate bars behind the bike sheds for whatever it is, which is what people kind of tend to think of as an entrepreneurial mindset if you're not doing that, but I think that's nonsense, really. I think that, you know, I was in school studying and getting good grades, and our family was a professional family, that was just the thing to do. But it doesn't mean that when you identify a product or a service, you can't go out and sell it, and do so in an entrepreneurial fashion. But the buzz of making a product and a service and selling it and seeing those sales come in was something that was quite addictive. You touched earlier on the decision to take it full-time and make it your thing. Talk to me a bit more about the lead up to that, and what was it that made you go, yeah, now's the right time? Well, I mean, it was a few things. It was that I've been running PCD while I was working for Lombard Odier, and I had colleagues attending, and I was fully transparent about building PCD. But it got to a point where the size of the event, we were going to Dubai and doing events, going to Jersey, and I was dovetailing that with my work. But, ultimately, there came a point where the employer naturally would say, 'What is this?' You know, this is more than a hobby because it's large, and it obviously takes time. And so, there came a tension really, I suppose, between this kernel of an idea, which was all it was at that point, in a sense of I'd proven something by going to different places and doing events, and I built a customer base, but it wasn't something I felt I could make my living on, but there became a tension between being full time employed and building that up, which I understand. And at the same time, I just thought, well, with this kernel of an idea, if I squash it now in favour of just doubling down on my banking career, I'll have given up something quite precious, quite valuable that I'd spent this blood, sweat, and tears to go and build. And I wasn't prepared to let that go because I felt, you know, that it was something that I valued. And because I built so many contacts at that time, I had people who were willing to, essentially, for me to go self-employed and to work with them. So, to give me some security of income, I was working with a tax firm, I was working with an insurance brokerage, that gave me the runway to go out. And so, I didn't sort of leave the bank and then immediately start drawing a salary from PCD. I actually worked for about 18 months as a consultant with three companies, but by that time, PCD was on the table, and I was self-employed, so therefore I was able to do it. But then after about 18 months, I basically thought, why am I consulting for other people when I could be building my own? PCD at that point was then a viable business to actually do. So, what I'd say to people who are making transitions is, build your runway. It's not about like, right, I jacked in my job one day, and I turned the light on in another. And I spent many years building to a point where I could be full-time credibly on PCD. And it grew, it wasn't like jack that in and then things are going to immediately take off. So, I learned a lot about being self-employed, I guess, in that period as well, and juggling different roles and trying to make that all work. And there's another valuable lesson there. There will be some people who say that burning the boats is the only way to do it because it forces you to, and you've got to make it work. But you've demonstrated you can do it another way. You can allow yourself a safety net. If PCD hadn't worked out, you probably could have made a very nice living from continuing consulting, or you could have gone back to working for a bank or an accountancy firm or whoever. If it would have all gone to par, yeah, it could have reversed. And I always had options at every stage, until I get to a point now where I'm unemployable in a way because I'm so ingrained in self-employment, but it's taken me a long time to reach this point. There were roots back, all the way through, there were roots back, but I didn't need to take them or didn't feel sufficiently strongly enough to want to take them. PCD, at that point, is a business that relies in large part on getting people together in a room having dinner together. And then, in March 2020, the pandemic happens. So, talk to me about what effect that had and, yeah, what were your thoughts then about the future of this as a viable business? The pandemic, obviously, forced so many fundamental challenges in the company. I mean, in February 2020, we were due to host an event in Singapore, and Singapore was one of the first places to actually basically sound the alarm internationally, and they had a warning out against events in February 2020. So, by that point, we were like, okay, the Singapore event is not going to be operating. And then later, in March, we had a London event and a Manchester event. They obviously had to be pulled. And I think at that time, we didn't know how long it was going to be. We thought that it was going to be, well, surely by the autumn, we'll be back to business. So, at that time, what we started to do was just experiment with different ways of doing things digitally, like webinars. We had a great team, particularly, I mean, Sophie, my wife is very into the technology side and the digital content. So, she figured out a lot of stuff to do with filming webinars and just production generally. Chris is our cameraman and head of creative. And so, he was also there to, we did some filming out in St Albans and things like that. We were trying to sort of just stay visible. The timing in a way worked as well as it could, because we are a membership subscription model. And the way it all panned out was that a lot of our subscriptions at that time would come in in January to pay for events on the year ahead. So, by the time everyone paid their invoices in January, because nobody knew about Corona at that point, even into February, people were obviously paying invoices because they were not really aware of the change that was about to happen. So, we were, I suppose, sat on a cash pile when it came to March, that was due to be spent on me travelling and events that didn't need to be spent. So, it gave us a little cash buffer. Our challenge then was how do you stop people asking for that money back? Or when it comes to renewal, what have you given them in the interim such that you've got a viable business going forward? So, we basically went all guns blazing on webinars, on digital content. We improved our magazine, we did little sessions on Zoom using breakout rooms. We sold new products. So, essentially, the sponsors that I had for that year ahead converted into doing a webinar series. So, for example, we had Barclays Bank in London sponsoring a Nairobi event in June 2020 that had to get cancelled, but they'd already paid for it. So, we said, well, how's about we flip that into a webinar series focusing on Kenya and did a sort of Kenyan international series covering lots of different things branded in partnership with Barclays. That worked. You know, we got that away. It worked. We sold that concept then for new cash to other people. So, we created new products based on what we could do to innovate. We kept our community engaged by all the digital channels that we could. We stayed super visible on LinkedIn and on email, so that when it came around even to January 2021, even in the depths of it all, where people could have just completely cancelled memberships and all of that, we still retained the core of support, because people could see the value that we were trying to create. And also, there was nothing else out there at that time. So, people knew they wanted to still do something. And so, we managed to ride that out because of our subscription model. That bit of annuity income saved us. And then, September 2021 was when we came back with our first event in London at the Langham. And at that point, a lot of people hadn't been to an event for the last 18 months. So, it took time for people to get back comfortable again with this large-scale networking. And we had all the challenges of when we went to the Channel Islands, when we went to Switzerland of like, you know, can we see you've got a vaccine certificate? We went through all of that to execute these events and then just gradually pulled out of that to get into 2022, which was a transitional year for people establishing new behaviour, and then 2023 kind of fully back in the swim. But yeah, it's taken a long time to unwind and has had a lasting impact on, obviously, people's business habits, interesting events. It fundamentally changed a lot of things. Even though we're putting it in the collective memory, it was obviously a fundamentally important event for us. How did you keep your subscribers happy? Because they've signed up for a networking thing. They want to meet people, do business with people. And you mentioned having some small group Zoom breakouts, that kind of thing, but also a lot of digital content, which sounds like a lot of learning stuff, webinars, that kind of things. I mean, clearly, people cancelled. People cancelled, but essentially, we survived because our costs also, you know, essentially, it was our pay, you know, we budgeted it. Every year, we spend 400,000 pounds on venues that we didn't need to spend. So, essentially, we hung in there because our costs had gone from up here down there, and all the venues, apart from one awkward one in Zurich that charged us extra for rescheduling, but essentially, the whole industry was like for like. So, if you paid any money, it was just carried over. Venues now are catching up. They're charging premiums, they're jacking price, but in that moment they didn't, they just rolled things forward or went like for like. So, essentially, all we had to do was create sufficient value. And also, our memberships at that time, we had a digital membership for 250 pounds a year, which sold quite well. Our corporate membership was 1200 plus VAT. So even that, actually the cost of membership was so marginal, essentially, to firms, that they just thought, you know, David will be back with something, and we might as well support him in the interim. So, although our membership did shrink, our costs shrank quite a lot, and we kept in touch with people. And a lot of those then flooded back as soon as we started again, people came back and renewed. So, we just managed to hang on in there. And there was a few key sponsors that helped us get there as well. I mean, fortunately, Finance Isle of Man were able to sign a contract in the middle of the pandemic for a package of events that essentially kept the lights on. And I'm grateful to them for that backing, because they helped us, and we do great business together now, and we've been a good partner over many years, but the fact they were able to sign that contract in the middle of everything when most people were pulling back and send you the cash was, you know, one of those things where things turn on a few details, and that was one of them. Some people might call that lucky, but it's one of those things where you make your own luck. If it hadn't been them, then it probably would have been someone else. Yeah. You play the cards you're dealt. And unfortunately, I mean, for me, at that time, I just had to give the team a bit of vision, a bit of energy, and a bit of, like, right, this is what we're doing. We always had a plan. And what was quite interesting, I guess, was, we were living in St Albans at that time, and weatherwise, it was that wonderful spring summer, if you recall it. There was golden afternoons and evenings. And there were people, friends of ours, we've got two kids, there were friends of ours furloughed on full salaries with, you know, having a sort of a leisurely time. Obviously, there were people going through awful things, which I'm not underplaying, but you could see other people not really, we were working as hard as we'd ever worked to keep things up in the air, although doing webinars and things doesn't sound taxing, the scale at which we were trying to do it with speakers internationally, figuring out new things, getting audiences, selling concepts, meant that we were really under pressure. And yeah, I just remember working, just feeling so frazzled in that period, because we were juggling so much, and we were dealing with all this uncertainty as well, when we would come back with events, what we were selling, what is the offering, and trying to figure all that out while the kids were at home or home-schooled was something quite unique. So, coming back to present day and the future, what's the shape of the business now, and what shape would you like it to be in, say, the next five years? Right now, we've got some core locations across Europe and the Middle East that we know work really well. We've consistently been there. We get a great sponsor line-up. We get a great delegate list. That's become a mature product. But we're always looking at new ideas and new markets. So, last month I went down to Lagos, Nigeria, and we did a new conference event with a partner from London that worked fantastically well. It's a difficult market to operate in, so commands a premium. And that's a franchise that we're looking to grow and expand. I guess, because people doing the easy as it were, like doing an event in London or Switzerland, or Dubai even, is the low-hanging fruit of the sector. They are things that other people are doing. If you can get into locations where people aren't operating, where there is value, where there is a certain set of facts, that's what we're looking to do on the event side, is leverage our expertise, pulling these events together to go into premium markets, which are underserved, where there is long term growth and opportunity. We've got a fantastic media team that now can create brilliant original conference assets and video. We've learned a huge amount about executing great events and promoting them online. And so, I would like to keep the core events running, people know what they're getting with that, but then to add some exciting new locations. I think there's huge opportunity within the private wealth sector in some key African markets, because there's clients there that are growing, making money, needing services, not familiar with all of the ideas and concepts and firms that we take for granted in Europe or the US. And so, there's a massive opportunity, I think, to bring some quality networking connectivity to different emerging markets. And then, also just on the media front, I think that we are in an era where private wealth sector professionals haven't used all the media channels to promote themselves, to build their visibility, that going forward will become an essential component of how they promote and get their business. I think that clients, whereas when I was working at Dixon Wilson, the concept that clients found their advisers through the Internet was sort of a bit of a joke. It wasn't really something that people took seriously. Whereas now, obviously, the idea that clients aren't looking at Googling stuff if they want to know about a topic or looking things up on YouTube on their phone is crazy. Of course they are. And then, it's how do you get, how do you access that new audience, those new people who are looking for information that you might be able to provide? So, I think it's an exciting time for professionals wanting to build visibility and create content, and we can be part of that story. So, going forward, I think, yeah, I'm excited by the digital marketing opportunities that we've been learning about and kind of trying to craft. Well, I, for one, am going to be absolutely fascinated to see where it goes. David, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. As you've been through this journey, have there been any resources, people, books, podcasts, anything, which have particularly helped you? There was a person at Lombard Odier, he was a portfolio manager that had been there for many, many years. Very nice chap, but at the end of his career, with a very good life experience. And I remember just sitting down with him and just talking about the future, not specifically looking at anything that I was doing, but he said to me, 'You know, life's not a rehearsal.' And it's something that just resonates with me so strongly, because you don't know you're on the right path. But the fact is, you've got to try something. We're only doing this once. You know? You can't replay this journey. And so, you make choices, and you stick by them, and that's what happens. And I guess I feel like, in my own journey, I've seen opportunities, I've grabbed them, I've tried to make the most of them, and I feel that I'm taking control of my own story, because that's all we have. And when I was thinking about leaving banking, there are a lot of sad bankers who are in their fifties, in a golden cage, earning a massive salary, but not fundamentally happy. And I often think, you know, I'm making my own path. That, for me, has a massive amount of value. Now, hopefully, I can monetize it and make my own pot of gold, but the fact is, every day, I get up to a challenge that I fundamentally enjoy and is of my own making. So, I think, life is not a rehearsal is a bit of a mantra for me, because it's just that seize the day concept of making something happen. Where would you like people to go if they want to find you and more about your business? I'm prolific on LinkedIn, so they can find me on LinkedIn or PCD Group, the PCD Group website or PCD group on LinkedIn. Do come and follow us, find out what's happening, and, yeah, we're building a community and a great story. Well, David, thank you again so much for coming on the show. Pleasure. Lovely to talk to you, Jeremy. Okay. Hope you enjoyed that interview with David Bell of PCD Club. There is a lot to be said for developing your abilities to sell, and I can just feel that some of you are probably getting triggered as I say that. Oh my goodness, I'm not a salesman. I've got absolutely no desire to do that. But selling comes in many forms, and if you can learn what form, what method works for you, that aligns with you, even if you're not planning to start a business or sell a product or service, you'll find it really beneficial. I think a previous guest of mine basically said that we are all salespeople of one form or another. So, finding out how you can do it authentically could well be time worth spending. So, aside from that message, one of the other things I really liked about this interview with David was when he talked about having a golden cage. And I can definitely relate to that. You're doing a job which is well paid, which is high status, it's well regarded, it enables you to live a very comfortable life, it can be very hard to let that go. And I think that's one reason why many people stick in jobs which are making them miserable, because it does give them that level of self-worth and comfort. Now one of my favourite films for this time of year is the Muppet Christmas Carol. I absolutely love it and probably do watch it every year. And one of the things I like about it is when Scrooge meets with the ghost of Christmas past and goes back into his own past. You can hear him justifying all the action which he takes. There's a reason for pursuing the particular path he does. It makes sense to him. But it's when he meets the other two spirits that he realizes that it hasn't made him happy. So, as we go into this year's holiday season, see if you can take a little bit of time to reflect. Are you staying where you are because it's comfortable? Have you locked yourself in this golden cage that David talked about? If you have, and you're okay with that, then, you know, fine. If you're doing it intentionally and with awareness, then that's one thing. It's when you're just going on autopilot down this road that I think the risk of regrets in the future is much greater. So, I'm aware that is a little bit deep for the last episode before the holidays, and whatever your run-up is to the festive season, and however you celebrate it or don't, I hope that you get a chance to enjoy it, that you get to relax, spend time with loved ones, and I will see you again in two weeks' time. So, cheers, Bye and happy holidays.