Change Work Life

Body language tips for career success - with Linda Clemons

• Jeremy Cline/Linda Clemons • Episode 221

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#221: Linda Clemons is a body language expert and top sales trainer.  She explains the intricacies of nonverbal communication, how body language works and how to use body language to your advantage in high stake meetings. 

What you’ll learnR

  • [01:50] When people start to learn body language. 
  • [03:35] How important nonverbal communication is. 
  • [08:22] How powerful the tone of your voice is. 
  • [10:46] Sales hypnotherapy and how different words activate different parts of the brain.  
  • [13:52] How to read nonverbal communication and how universal body language is. 
  • [20:05] The importance of knowing someone’s baseline and how to read clusters of behaviours. 
  • [21:58] How your judgement and perception shapes your belief.
  • [26:10] How body language is used in an interview. 
  • [32:15] How culture affects people’s body language. 
  • [33:37] Actionable techniques to improve your nonverbal communication. 
  • [41:55] How to improve your body language.

esources mentioned in this episode
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For the show notes for this episode, including a full transcript and links to all the resources mentioned, visit:

https://changeworklife.com/body-language-tips-for-career-success/


Re-assessing your career?  Know you need a change but don't really know where to start?  Check out these two exercises to start the journey of working out what career is right for you!

We all know that the words we use are only part of the story. Tone of voice and body language are all at least as important in putting across what you want to say. But how practically can understanding nonverbal communication help you? What should you look for as you interact with other people? And what should you do better to get your point across? That's what we're talking about in this week's episode. I'm Jeremy Cline, and this is Change Work Life. Hello and welcome to the Change Work Life podcast, the show that's all about beating the Sunday evening blues and enjoying Mondays again. I'm a career coach, you can find out more about that at changeworklife.com/coaching, and in each episode, my guests and I bring you tips, strategies, and stories to help you enjoy a more satisfying and fulfilling working life. When you walk into a room, how much are you saying before you even open your mouth? What's your posture telling the other person? And just as importantly, what are they telling you without necessarily realising it? This week, we're talking about nonverbal communication and body language and how you can take advantage of it in high-stakes meetings like job interviews and performance reviews. And my guest to help us explore this topic is Linda Clemons, top body language expert and author

of Hush:

How to Radiate Power and Confidence Without Saying a Word. Linda, welcome to the podcast. Jeremy, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be able to share with your audience today, specifically on a subject that's so dear to me. And what's important about this subject, we all possess it. Nonverbal communication, AKA body language, is actually our first language. As babies, when we were born, you're not able to utter a word, form sentences. You made sounds, you cry, you got fussy, you made your demands with your little hands and your little feet. So, body language is primitive, and it's innate, it's part of our limbic system that sends out signals to other brains, because other brains talk to each other. And for those that are listening, if you could recall a time that someone who is special in your life, friend, partner, spouse, children, or someone, and you've ever been in a situation in the room, someone said something or did something, and immediately, a thought came in your head, and you looked at the person sitting beside you or across you, and you just simply start speaking to them without saying a word with your facial expressions or given what that eyebrow raised, I call it, the Rock, when he raises the one eyebrow, like hmm, that was interesting, or something that surprised you, you may do an eyebrow flash where both eyebrows would go up, but you didn't say a word. The moment that the stimuli or whatever that thing that happened at the moment you thought something, and you happen to look at another person, and we're both thinking, we're thinking the same thing. Right? And so, again, it's primitive. It's the thing that we use to be able to open our arms, embrace someone, to expose our palms, to let everyone know, please, I'm open, come into the room. When I say into the room, the room could be the doors of your heart. So, body language is critical. It really is. It's one of these things that I feel like is talked about a lot, and there are received wisdom. So, I think I read today that something like 93% of communication is nonverbal, and that was a combination of body language and tone of voice, and only 7% was the words actually used. How true is that? Because there's a lot of these things which you hear something, and everyone assumes it's true, but I quite like a little bit of science backing all this up. Absolutely. Well, think about this, someone is always out there, a great mind, that's doing a study, and the numbers and the data that you're speaking of is talking about the communication theory. And that study was done well over 50 years ago out of UCLA by Dr Mehrabian. And it was, I believe, in close proximity, and just watching and observing how people interact in different situations. And according to his study, now there are different studies out there, but this was a ground-breaking study, Paul Ekman, and we'll talk about that, he did his study on micro expressions and the emotions, but Dr. Mehrabian in his study and in his work stated, and what his findings now, that at that particular setting words were 7% of our communication. Now, we're in a day that, you've got great speakers, great orators that can get up and present, Winston Churchill, words were powerful, and the late Dr Martin Luther King and Mandela, where they had words to move the soul, the spirit, the mind, the nation, or the world. But those are the words. And his study said it was 7%. My question is that, in reference to the words, what if we don't speak the same language? Now that percentage is gone. But even more importantly to your listening audience, if we just concentrate on the words, I want you to think about this. You've got the statistics, according to his study,

but I want you to ask yourself this question:

are the words that are coming out of my mouth, are they powerful or powerless? Are they poison or potent? Are my words passionate or passive? Your words are powerful. Every actor, when they get the script, they have to read the words to see if they could connect and resonate with the words. Saying the word cancer, I read something that saying the word cancer is feared in over 12 languages, meaning the moment that the doctor comes into the office or to you and speak to you and says, 'I've got some news', just that word, cancer. And another study, I believe it was a Harvard study, that said one of the most revered words in the world is mother, in addition to the sound of your own name. So, here's the thing that I want to say about the words, and I'll go

over the other percentages. What I want to say about the words, Jeremy, is this:

once they're out, you can't retrieve them. How many times that we had assumptions, we were wrong. We go barrelling into someone's office and accuse them of something they might have said, and we found out that we were wrong. And at that moment, at that encounter, you were looking at the 43 facial muscles in their face, and you saw pain, you saw hurt, but you can't take the words back. You could apologise, but you can't take them back. So, your words are important as to how you want the person to feel when they leave your presence. That's one of my goals. Every morning when I wake up, I do my affirmations, my meditations, for me, no judgement, I do my prayers, and then I ask my creator that everyone that I come in contact with today, that they leave my presence better, Jeremy, and not bitter. And that could play a lot of part in my words. Then, the tonality, according to the study on the communication theory, is 38%. 38%. So, we all might have heard, it depends on what part of the world you're from, you might have heard it once or twice, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Now, I've heard that too, but I've got a new twist on it. It's not just what you say or how you say it, it's what they hear. So, if those of you that are listening, if you just listen to my words and just imagine or visualise, for those that can visualise, because everybody in the world can't, there's a small percentage that can't visualise, so if you can just imagine what my body language would look like as I'm saying these words, and I'm going to give you two case studies, just hear me out,

listen to my words:

I saw Steve and Sandy at the mall the other day, and they were alone. I saw Steve and Sandy at the mall the other day, and they were alone. You heard the words, you heard the tone, and you probably imagine, wow, wonder how she's standing. What if she's sitting? Is she standing in a confrontational mode? But what are you thinking, like Linda, big deal, my ball's all over the country, people go to the mall for shopping. But what if I said it like this, and even though you're not looking at me, you can imagine what I'd be looking like if

I did it like this:

I saw Steve and Sandy at the mall the other day, and they were alone. Now watch. Now Jeremy, same words. Same words. And Jeremy gets to see me. Same words, but the different tone. Just from the tone alone, if someone is an auditory dominated communicator, they're probably thinking, 'Mmm, there's a little something going on there.' Okay, if you worked in corporate America, wonder if that was forbidden, that kind of fraternising in the company. And what if that was forbidden? And then, next thing you know, the rumours start going around the rumour mill, and someone says, 'Well, we need to get rid of Steve.' Then, somebody else says, 'Wait a minute, it takes two to tango. We need to get rid of Sandy.' Then, someone else jumps in, 'Well, let's just get rid of both of them. They broke the rules.' And then, another person walks in and says, 'Wait a minute, they're brother and sister.' And Larry says, 'Oh my God, that's even worse!' But we begin to imagine just the words. Why am I telling you this about the tone? Because part of my other work that I do, Jeremy, I do training on sales hypnotherapy, meaning there are certain words that activate different parts of the brain. That's important to you if you're going to a job interview. It's important to you if you're asking for a raise. Because you know one side, you know left side, logical, but it's connected to the opposite side, the emotional side of the brain, so where do I stand when I'm asking for a raise? Oh my gosh! That's how crazy the science is behind this. So, 7% words, 38% tonality, and 55%, according to the study out of UCLA, is our nonverbal communication. And as Jeremy mentioned earlier, you add the 55 and the 38, that's 93%. And one of my favourite quotes is by Emerson. Now, by the way, for those of you who are very detailed and analytical, logical, I have a tendency to add seasoning to different quotes. In other words, I'll clementize it. I'm going to take the licence to clementize, but I did my disclaimer. And the quote by Emerson, and I'm going to clementize it, give you my seasoned version of

it, and it goes something like this:

I cannot hear what you are saying because who you are being is getting in the way. Jeremy, is that powerful? I cannot hear what you are saying because who you are being is getting in the way. You might have heard the phrase, action speaks louder than words. If

my late granny was alive, she would say this all the time:

I hear you talking, but I don't see you walking. So, if your words and your tone and your nonverbal are incongruent, if all three, here's a sound bite for you, if all three don't agree, what are the three? My words, my tone, my nonverbal. If all three don't agree, then there's a disconnect in the message between you and me. She says she's happy to see me. He says that I want to work the marriage out. The interviewer said,'We'll give you a call, you've got potential here.' But something else is not right, even though they said the little 7% words. So, when the words, the tone, and the nonverbal, if all three don't agree, then there's a disconnect between you and me. Now, someone out there's listening, says, wait a minute, Linda, what if someone has disabilities, special abilities, gifted abilities, or invisible abilities, where there may be a disability and you don't see? There's always exception to the rule. So, yes, Jeremy, it's very important. So, how much of this can you rely on the, 'Oh, everyone knows that'? So, I absolutely get that you may be in a conversation with someone, and something might feel a bit off. But is it as obvious as things like, oh, if someone's got their arms folded, then that means that they're going to be resistant rather than, I don't know, they might just be a bit cold. Or I remember one about, if two people have got their legs crossed, if the crossed legs are towards one another, then that shows something about the way they feel about it. I mean, how much of this is actually true, and how much of this is old wives' tale cliche that isn't actually true? So, think about this, let's talk about what's natural, what's primitive for us, and let's talk about perception. So, I'm going to give you a mini course. And of course, those additional information and resources, we'll provide that a little bit later on for you. So, I'm going to give you the three Cs of reading nonverbal communication, body language. But before I do, I want you to make note, and I know when you listen to this show with your magnificent hosts that you all are taking copious notes. Now, I know some of you are probably on your laptop or computer, and you're typing. The reason why I want you to write down the notes, because it goes back to the primitive stage that your brain will seek out that's important for its survival. And the moment that you hear something, that's why you write it down. When you write it down, you own it, because you're connected to it. When you are typing, you literally can do it being disconnected, because you have muscle memory when you're typing. So, when you write it down, you own it because you are beginning to process and internalise what's said to you. That's your little homework. Write it. Write it down. So, in reading nonverbal communication, for those that are out there listening, I want you to write down this word, and I want you to think about what I'm

saying:

baseline. B as in boy, A as in Apple, S as in Sam, E as in Edward, line, L-I-N-E. Think of baseball, but baseline. The FBI or CIA may call it norming. Not normal, but norming. It's a person's normal state of mind. It's their normal behaviour, it's their base, it's who they are without any stress or any other stimuli that takes them off their base. So, for example, if your base is lying there sleeping on the couch with your feet up, and someone comes in and yells, you're going to jump, or they move your feet, they took you off your base. If they move, get your feet off the couch, I can hear my mom, get your feet off the couch, they took you off your base. So, a baseline is a person's norm. It's who they are under normal circumstance without any stress. I'm going to elaborate on that a little bit more. How many of you that are listening have children? Either little kids, grown kids, or I'm going to make it easier so it'll relate to everyone. How many of you ever been a child before? Okay, so that relates to everyone. So, just imagine you have a little child that comes home from school. They have a routine. They take off their backpack, they go to the refrigerator, they get a little snack, go do the homework, or perhaps get on the computer, play games. That's their routine. You know. You know every time they come home from school, you even know the time the bus comes. So, I'm going to say little Linda, little Billy, whoever. They do it on a Monday. Okay. Tuesday, same routine. Wednesday comes around. Okay, I mean, that's the base. The kid does it every day. Then all of a sudden, on Thursday, he doesn't do it, or she doesn't do it. As a matter of fact, the child comes into the house, goes straight to the bedroom, shuts the door. Then, immediately when that happens, you go like Scooby Doo, 'Huh?" Okay? You go,'Hmm, I remember that happened on Thursday.' Okay, you brush it off, you know, these kids, anything can happen in school, whatever. Then, the child does it on Thursday and Friday, and then something happens on Saturday. So, what you just noticed, without any science, without anything, that your child was off base. So, tell me, if you're out there listening, how many of you, you know your best friend, your mate, your husband, your partner, your spouse, someone you know or care about, respect, that you've known for years, when you call them up and say, 'Hey, what's going on? How's it going?', and they respond, 'Yeah, everything's going okay.' No, it's not. You're not even in front of them. You're not even on the video phone. You're just calling them up. How do you know? How do you know something's wrong? Because you know that their tone is off base. So, it is so important for those that are listening, begin to master and build the rapport, so you know another individual's base who you work with. The worst thing that can happen, Jeremy, if you lead a team, oh, and this has happened to some of my clients before, that they couldn't understand why all of a sudden their number one producer, all of a sudden just hit bottom. And they're not even understanding, and the next thing you know, the top producer, just out of clear blue, takes a leave of absence. And so, the boss was saying, 'I don't know what's going on. I mean, he was our top producer, she was our top producer, and just went flat. I don't know what's happening. People got to get their head in the game.' And then, another co-worker will look, 'Aren't you aware? Did you hear what happened? They lost a loved one, or this happened, and then you're the boss, been working with this person for years, and you didn't notice that there was a change in their baseline.' So, the greatest thing that you could do to take your communication to the next level is to be so present, be a hundred percent present in their presence, so that you know their norm. You want to know the norm of your kids, your loved ones, your friends, so that when they're off base, when they're off base, it signals to you something's wrong. So, baseline is very critical. Now, in reading nonverbal, your first C, three Cs, is Clusters. Reading them in clusters. And when I use the word clusters, because you may be listening to me from all over the world, and the word that I'm using may be a different terminology for you, so when I use the word clusters, more than one incident. So, more than one movement. So, if I'm sitting here in front of you, you walk into my office, or if I'm doing a presentation, let's do it this way, if I'm doing a presentation, and you all can see me live, and I come on the screen, and my arms are folded, your perception is your belief, whether it's a fact or not. Please write this down. It's going to be very critical. It is one of the problems and the biases that causes hate, racism, all this in the world. Your perception is your belief, whether it's a fact or not. So, if I'm standing here doing the presentation, my host just gave me a wonderful introduction, and I come on the screen, and you see me welcome and say hello with my arms folded, and I say, 'Oh, I'm so excited to be here, you all, let's get started, and we're going to have some fun.' My arms are folded. Some of you may take offence to that. Some of you may walk out the door and say, 'I'm not going to listen to a speaker who is closed off. She has one of her power zones closed', and we'll talk about that, because my arms were very folded. Listen to me carefully. Your perception is your belief, irregardless of whether the facts prove you different. Watch. So, you walk out of the room because you don't want to hear the speaker because they're closed off. That was your perception because their arms were folded. And here's what you missed. I start rubbing my shoulders, making that sound. Next thing you know, my assistant brings me my shawl, my sweater, a scarf. The rest of the audience says, 'Oh, my gosh, I thought she was closed off, but the woman's cold.' So, news alert. News alert. Breaking news. No longer is it just your gender that you may be judged. No longer if it's the colour of your skin. No longer if you choose who to love. No longer if you choose what to believe, your faith. No longer whether it's the school you go to. No longer is it your neighbourhood that you live in. No longer is it the kind of job that you work at. Linda, are you telling me that this news alert is that I can be judged by my movement, my body language? Absolutely. Because if you were the one that was thinking, are you the one that might have walked out of the room, because as a speaker, I folded my arms. And you didn't notice that when I folded my arms, there are different ways, that when I folded my arms, I had both of my hands under my arm. Because when someone has a tendency to be cold, they'll put their hands under the arm versus gripping the forearm. And we haven't even talked about the grip, the hand grip, the tension. But because you didn't stick around. You judged me on the first movement. So, when I say, watch for more than one movement, that's what my master's students, I teach them to come all over the world, we go to art museums, we go to the courtroom, I have them sit at airports, we go to malls, and they begin to take note and watch dialogues. We go to restaurants to see who's enjoying themselves or in the conversation, or if there's tension going on. But to be judged by your first movement, wow! Think about this. Even what we wear is part of body language. Some of you are probably using a device created by the brilliant mind of Steve Jobs. Hear me out. Hear me out. I had a chance to share the stage with the other brain who had to build it, his partner, Steve Wozniak. And I've got my picture with him. We shared the stage. And I am going to tell you a quick story, he said to me, 'Wow, your standing ovation was bigger than mine.' I said, 'Your bank account's probably bigger than mine, so we'll call it even, right?' But let me tell you, hear me out, you honour, respect the brilliance of Steve Jobs, to be honest with you, and it's been documented, he wore the same thing every day. The sweatshirt, the jeans. And word had it that he quite often didn't take showers. Who am I to judge the brilliance? But if he would have walked in to the room to a meeting, because that was his uniform, part of his brand, that casualness was part of his brand, as a matter of fact, story says, the legend says that he wanted all his leadership to wear, they said, 'We're not wearing the same thing every day', but if he would have walked in, and ladies and gentlemen, our speaker, and you did not know this man, the first thing for you visually dominated people is, does he not know this is a professional business conference? Did anybody give him the dress code? So, even what you wear, we often are judged. And then, it was later on that you realise, oh, one of the most brilliant minds in the world. I have an iSomething, iPhone, iPad, iThis, iTunes, I have an iSomething, how dare, because we judged off what we were stimulated by, the visual. So, please watch for more than one movement. Linda, can you give me another example? Yes, I will. Glad you asked. So, here's another example. You're in the interview. You're one of the final candidates. You walk in, the interviewer extends his or her hand, open palm, and says, 'Have a seat.' And then, you begin to have the conversation. And the interviewer is leaning in, hanging on to every word that you're saying. Every word. Then, all of a sudden, a question was asked, you responded. And the interviewer, Jeremy, went from leaning in and forward, please make a note of this, we lean towards things that we like, are curious about, have an interest in, are intrigued about, and away from things that we don't, and all of a sudden, you responded to a question, and he moved back, or she moved back. Have you heard of the term 'I was taken aback'? Something that was said or you responded took him back. Now, it'd be one thing if he was taken aback, like, 'Wow, you and I both know, Charlie, you and I both know!' But what if he was taken aback with the body language and folded the arms and shut the door, shut the physical door to his heart. That's a power zone. Wow! And then, you're thinking, okay, I'm not sure about this or not. I think this is going sideways. And that was the first movement, he was taken aback, so he sits back in the chair, first movement. The second movement, he folded his arms. Okay, you're thinking, please, please, please, please, I don't want this to be what I think it is. And then, oh-oh, the final movement, he takes both hands, slaps the top of the desk. Okay, thank you for coming out, and I appreciate you. Oh my gosh, the three movements right then and there, whatever happened in his mind, he made up his mind that I wasn't the one. I'm not going to get the job. How did you know you're not going to get the job? He didn't even say it. He said, 'We'll get back with you.' When he slapped his hands on the desk, this is, 'Okay, I'm done.' And you all do it unconsciously. So, read them in clusters. The second C, I get a little excited, by the way, if you were to come to my house to eat, I'll probably feed you everything. I love to feed you and give you information. So, I'm feeding you intellectually. The second C is Congruency. And I spoke about that earlier. The words, the tone, and the nonverbal. So, always remember this, sans the exception, if there's a special ability, a disability, a possibility, or invisible ability, just keep in mind there's always the exception to the rule, if you will. We're talking about the rule. But it's making sure that the words and the tone and the nonverbal agree. How many of you ever had a mother that said, when they wanted you to go somewhere, or you were going to visit some relatives, or you were going to do something, and I don't want to go, and you're saying, 'I don't want to go', and your mom looked at you, or your dad says, 'Look, we're going to go over your Uncle Harry's and Aunt Mildred's, and I want you to act.' Notice what they would say, Jeremy, they didn't say, 'I don't want you to say that you're happy to be there. I want you to act like you're going to be there.' You've ever had parents that would say, 'Act like you got some sense.' What does that mean? Act like you got some school. And my granny would say, 'What did the money we paid for? Act like it.' That's how strong that is. So, when the words and the tone and the nonverbal are incongruent, it sends a message that something's up. And for those of you that are in sales, and you are mastering the art of persuasion, that's one of the things that you want to observe, is that when you do your needs analysis, your discovery, and you're asking questions, and the response is to be aware if their words and the tone in the nonverbal match. Okay? And so, that's the congruency. The third C is the Context. Have you ever been in a situation like, hey, a hot sunny day, and you say to your friends, 'Let's go to the beach, you know, very warm outside, let's get into the waves, and let's have some fun'? And then, you see somebody walking on the beach in winter gear or in a fur coat. If it's real fur, faux fur, I don't want to offend anybody, but it's out of context. It's out of context. So, if we were all going to take a long trip together, if I'm coming to Europe to visit you, coming somewhere in the world and say the flight is 10 hours, 14 hours, I've been on flights over 25 hours, and I'm taking a long trip, would you be suspicious if we all show up at the airport together, all of you have luggage, you have carry-on bags, you have little snacks, and I show up with no checked in luggage, no carry-on bag, and I'm a little jumpy when you're talking to me? First of all, it's all out of context to take a long trip and have nothing. So, these are the things, these are nonverbal cues that send us the signals. And of course, I'm going to give you all a bonus C, because this show is fabulous. And the bonus C is Culture. Culture. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. You don't want to stand out, you actually want to fit in. Because you may be doing gestures and signals that may be inappropriate. In the United States, I'll say, my hand, by the way, I'm doing a little fan motion, and I'll say like, 'Keep this between you and me.' I'm gesturing to you and pointing back at me, keep this between us. Perhaps if I'm in the United Kingdom, and I tap my finger beside the nose, keep this between us. But that same tap can mean something different in Italy, can mean you're in trouble. In the United States, doing business, we expect you to have eye contact with us, you know, 78 to 85% of the time because some people think, 'Oh, for some reason he or she's not looking at me, something shady is going on.' We never think about the person maybe tuning an ear. 72% of the people in the world, when they're really listening to something deeply, you'll see a slight tilt of the head, and they're tuning the ear because they're trying to take in internally what you say. But if you are a visually dominated communicator, and you're looking at me, you're going to automatically assume, you're biased, because you're visually, that I'm not looking at you, and you never think that maybe she's auditory, and she's listening to me. You notice when people listen to their favourite tunes, you notice, you probably never thought about it, they're tilting their head, man, that sound, I'm liking it, because they're taking it all in. Wow! You know, eye contact. If I was in Asian cultures, Japan, prolonged eye contact could be deemed disrespectful. They look at the dimple in the throat called the suprasternal notch. India, what we do is, hello, and nodding our head in the United States up and down, it's different in India. So, culture is respecting our differences and celebrating them and understanding to be able to build a rapport. That was a lot of information. Was it, Jeremy? Those listening probably think, where did our fabulous host go? Did she hijack a show? No. So, there was a lot there, which is absolutely great. I love to feed. So, I'm very keen on keeping things simple, and I'd like to give the listeners either one takeaway or one thing they can work on. And I've kind of got a menu of two items in my head that they can try following this conversation. The first one is, make an effort to pay attention to the body language of other people. And the second is to be more aware of their own body language in the context of everything that you were just talking about. If someone listening has to choose only one of those to begin with, which one would you suggest? Well, they're both equally important. And you may have to ask yourself, if you were to choose, to thine own self be true, ask yourself what area that I believe that I personally need to work on. Do I need to work on an area when people say that every time they're around me, 'You never listen. You don't pay attention to what I do'? Then, you may have to level up your EQ and work on your observation skills and your listening skills and be a hundred percent present in another person's presence. The other area is that we all have habits that we do. We have cycles of the habit, it's a wonderful book that I'm going to recommend for you all for your library. But it's so difficult for us to see the picture of who we are, because we're not walking around with a mirror all the time. It's very difficult for some people to see the picture because they're stuck in the frame. And someone may say to you in a meeting, 'I noticed that every time our director gets up to make an announcement, do you realise that you exhale like you're exasperated? Do you realise that you roll your eyes?' No, I don't. But do you realise that you get defensive every time someone brings this up to you? But you do. Every time we have meetings, and someone says something that you do not like, you do lip compression. What are you talking about? You're doing it right now. You compress your lips together because it's like you're holding back, and you want to say something, and you do an eye roll. Our habits, both good or bad, are so ingrained in us, Jeremy, that sometimes we don't realise we're doing it because it's second nature. So, you have to ask yourself, talking to my friends, talking to my co-workers, talking to people whose opinions that I really trust and value, and if I say to them,'What do you think I should work on?' Well, if you want to move up in the company, one of the things that you need to work on is to make sure that you listen. I know you're lightning thinking, and your patience is a little short, so sometimes during the meetings, when people are explaining stuff, you cut them off. No, I don't. You just did it right there. See, sometimes people don't realise that they're doing that. So, both of them are equally important. But you have to assess internally within you what is the one thing that resonated. Because you presented it to the audience, when you said that, which one resonated with you the most? For me, observation is key. Observation is key for me personally because of what I do, so that I won't misread or prejudge someone. You know, Jeremy, it happened to me. I was guest expert coming into a company, and I'm walking in, and I was well dressed, suited up for the occasion, very professional, and I'm a woman, and when I walked in, one of the guys has said, my briefcase was already there, so when I walked in, for some reason, one of the other people who didn't work for the company, that was just coming in from another company location, said, 'Can you get me some coffee?' He thought I was, you know. I didn't react. But I said, 'I think they have some out there. I'm here for the meeting.' So, I was really, I didn't react or respond, but it happens quite often because of people and their biases and what they judge. So, the observation, he didn't take time to realise that I'm sitting, there's my briefcase there, professionally dressed, coming in, and he was embarrassed later on when he asked me for apology, said, 'I apologise.' He said, 'I didn't know that you are a presenter.' But what difference does it make whether I was a presenter or anyone? Go get your own coffee. You see. So, observation, for me, is key because I'm looking at the stakeholders in the room. Some of you may have upcoming interviews where you're not interviewing one on one, you may have a panel interview. And that individual on the panel may have their eyes set on another candidate, but they acquiesce, and they, of course, took the interview with you. And you have to be able to observe their language. You have to acknowledge everyone that's on that panel interview. What happens if you're wearing colours that are the sorority or fraternal colours of one of the panellists? You unconsciously created an instant rapport with that individual because of the colours. Okay? But what if the colours that you're wearing are the opposing team of the sports team? You could also create a bias that instant right there. So, just having an awareness of how people respond when you enter the room. I'm going to ask you all this question here, and you tell me which one you think is important for you to work on. How do people react when they see you coming? How do people react when they see you walk into a room? How do people react when they see you enter the room, and they know you're coming in for the meeting? How do people react when it's open for contributions and sharing information and when it's your time to speak? Do people turn their head and look away? If you want to see or understand if you're a real leader, I hear leaders call themselves leaders all the time, you are not a leader when you call yourself a leader. You're a leader when your people call you the leader. How do they respond? Are you a people magnet or people repellent? And that's the thing that you could think between the two. What do I need to work on? I need to observe more how people feel and how they react when they're around me. I need to observe how they feel when they leave. Do people defy gravity when they see you coming? I take time sometimes to speak to elementary kids, to go in to give back to them. And when the teacher says, 'Guess who's coming to our class.' Eyebrows go up, eyebrow flash, guess who's coming to our class. And when I walk in the room, Linda's back, they defy gravity, they jump up and down. How do people respond when they know you're coming? And that way, you can decide which one you want to work on first. Jeremy, I challenge them to work on both. Both, because what you gave, both are equally important. But choose which one you want to start on first. I feel like it's, I'm going to say the word easier, and I'm going to regret it, but that it's easier but without being easy to concentrate on noticing what other people are doing, because it's, and I'm going to say it's passive, which I also don't mean, but it's more about focusing on the other person. Whereas I feel like if you're actually focusing on what you're doing, and suddenly, you're aware of where your arms are going, you're suddenly aware of where your facial expressions are going, you're suddenly going into analysis paralysis, what am I doing, what am I doing with my hands, what am I doing with my legs, what am I doing with my feet, everything, all that kind of thing that, that feels like it's the more challenging piece. So, for someone who wants to start on their own personal body language and improve that, whatever improve means, where's one place that they can start? Absolutely. So, I wanted to the listening audience, just from looking at Jeremy's body language, because I get to see him, I know that he's a great coach, and let me tell you why. He's an exceptional listener. And his observation skills, because he's patient in listening, me being his guest and just looking, I'm able to flow because he allows me to do that. Now why am I saying that? We are in a world right now where someone says that we have the patience of a flea. Our mindset, we are not thinking, we're not thinking about anything or anyone else. It's a fast-paced world, it's a drive-through world, and how often do we take time to be fully present and listen to someone, and really listen with empathy, compassion, with seeking to build rapport? How often do we do that? Because we're always busy. Even the videos and everything is short, short, short because of the attention span. And so, that's, I believe, one of your greatest talents, Jeremy. But to answer your question, if I could suggest, if anything that you could begin to work on, and I like to give homework, if you don't mind, I like to give homework, if you are someone who does presentations, you are a speaker, if you are someone who coaches, if you are someone that's preparing to go for an interview, have someone do a mock interview with you. And I want you to create a self-awareness, and that's one of the key things in emotional intelligence, create a self-awareness that when I go through different emotions, and I'm feeling a certain way in different situations and environments, what is my emotional state at that time? So, if I'm laid back, cool, calm, collected and having this interview, and then all of a sudden, the power goes off, and that I'm reacting like, I mean just going crazy, where does your emotional trigger change your physical state? And are you aware how emotions transfer over and how the other person can pick that up? That can change their emotional state as well. So, that would be the first thing, is become self-aware of your emotional state and how it impacts your physical state in the way you react, whether you move, and the way you interact with others, even the way you sit and the way you engage. How does what I'm thinking... Here's a sound bite for you, whatever I think I ink. Think of ink, I-N-K, and when I say ink, meaning it's written all over your face and your body language. So, the moment you think it, you ink it. So, here's something I want you to think about. Whenever you have the opportunity to interact with folks, and it's going to be easy for you if you're committed to it, and it could be a situation in a meeting, it could be a little confrontation that's going on, and you happen to be at the meeting, you're the observer, or you're the third party, you've got to ask yourself, how am I observing this situation here? You're going to choose one of three, so you can strengthen your skills. Because I don't know, I'm not going to take sides as of yet, I have to understand what's going on. I'm going to be the observer. So, you're going to be in observer mode. And observer mode, you have to give it equal balance. So, if you're in that meeting, you're hearing what every stakeholder is saying. You're listening to the two that are having the conversation. You're observing their vocal tone, you're listening to that. You're observing their body language. You're observing who's giving in, who feels defeated. You're observing everything. Because now you're in observer mode. Now, you have to do it now and turn off the bias. Because if the two people that are having the conversation, if one of them is your dear friend or someone you have an emotional connection to, your bias will cloud your judgement. Does that make sense? So, you want to make sure, you're going to say, 'Okay, bias, take a break, go to lunch break. You're going to have to be suspended for a moment because I've got to give equal footing here.' So, that's observer mode. The other mode is, you're new in the company, and this thing goes on, because it's part of their culture. Everybody kind of debates. And you're not that. You're probably an introvert and thinking like, 'Oh, I really don't like confrontation.' So, you may have to be the student. You may have to be in student mode. What student mode does, you're leaning in, you're watching the players, you're learning the rules. How does it work? How does it go? This is the culture. Every major company has a culture. Walmart has a culture. Google has a culture. Every company has a culture. And that's why people have to get in and begin to acclimate. But understanding so you know the rules, write this down, rules of engagement. You're the student. But what if the stuff that's going on, the conversation that's going on, the debate that's going on, and now you know, here's the role that you can play, you are the teacher or the expert. That's why they brought you in. That's why you're in there. And I guess what the teacher and the expert does, and this is very, very critical, is that all the parties that are involved, let's say three people are having this heated conversation, I'm just throwing out some names here, Let's say Linda, Jeremy, and Sam, let's just say that Linda, Jeremy, and Sam, as the teacher, the expert, if you will, now you're in that different mode, I have to listen to what Jeremy is saying, I have to observe his body language and how he's passionate and feels about it, I have to listen to what Linda is saying, have to listen what Sam is saying, so as the teacher, here's the most powerful level that you can take your communication to the highest level verbally, you go like this, you institute what we call information confirmation. Please write it down. Information confirmation. And it goes like this. Because now they're all looking at you because they're trying to think, 'Tell them, Linda. Tell them, Jeremy. Tell them this.' They want you to take the sides. They want you to take the side. But you're the teacher, you're the wisdom. And so, you say, 'Jeremy, what I hear you saying, what I heard from you is this.' And then you repeat back, 'Jeremy, what I heard you say was this.' And you can even add, 'And I believe you may be feeling this way because...' So, what I'm doing is, I'm acknowledging the emotion and the passion about his commitment and conviction about what is said. And I'm saying to him, 'Here's what I hear you say.' And then, at the end, I'm going to say, 'Jeremy, did I get that right?' And what Jeremy's going to do, oh, my gosh, somebody's hearing me. Somebody gets me. Somebody gets me. Now, the other two are thinking, she's taking Jeremy's side. Then, I'll go to Sam. Sam, what I heard you say and your point of view, and I go over what Sam said. But I do it in a way where I'm not repeating word for word. I'm adding the emotion, the motivator, and the triggers and all that he said to let him know that he was heard. Sam, did I get that right? And Linda, what I heard you say... Now, I'll do all that. Guess what I just did. I was able to calm and take the fire out of the room. Guess who has their attention now? The teacher. You, the expert, the one they brought in. I was able to manage their emotional state. Now, here's what I recommend. Here's my suggestion. I would like for all of you, watch what I'm going to do now, listen to what I'm doing, I'm asking all of you, have you considered this? And then, I bring in my expert recommendation. But do you notice how I did it, though, Jeremy? I acknowledged each one, because otherwise, if I'm watching their body language, and I know you probably felt the one person that closed their arms because it was the context in which they closed their arms, they weren't cold, because they were heated, temperatures were rising, so when they folded their arms, and you probably think that sometimes you feel shut out, because I saw the movement. So, it's very, very important. I get excited. Look at the time, oh, my gosh, where the time is going? You mentioned that you, I think you referred it as an addition to people's libraries, so what was that? I read about three to four books a month, and one of my mentors had always shared with me, Linda, you can't lead if you don't read. So, I love to read and learn, and I like to stay green. There's a little saying for you, when you're green, you grow, like a piece of fruit. When you're green, you grow. When you're ripe, you rot. Stay green, continue to learn. But there is a book called the Power of Habit. It was a New York Times bestseller book by Charles Duhigg. And he breaks down the science of why we do what we do. He breaks down the science and the cycle of a habit of the superstar Olympian. What is the difference between, besides a few seconds, a mile, a jump, between a gold medallist and the one that won the bronze? He breaks down the habits of the cycle and how you can achieve success in your life if you're able to identify that cycle and the power of habit. I love that book. Charles Duhigg, D as in David, U-H-I-G-G. Get the book. The other book, I love the late Dr Wayne Dyer. One of his quotes would be, open to everything, be attached to nothing. And this book has been around a long time, the Power of Intention. And if you

just put that in your library, put them up there with my book, Hush:

How to Radiate Power and Confidence Without Saying a Word, I'll be humbled and grateful. And where should people go if they want to find that? You can buy it at bookstores everywhere. You can, of course, go to the largest books retailer, Amazon, and you can buy it right there online. Or go to my website, buyhushbook.com. Link is as always in the show notes. Linda, a masterclass, which, I was going to say I wasn't expecting that, but that sounds awful. I knew I was going to get something good, but I wasn't expecting quite the level of masterclass. So, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. I so appreciate it. Okay. Hope you enjoyed that interview with Linda Clemens. One of the tips I liked the most was noticing things that are off base and looking for more than one incident, clusters, as Linda called them. It's not enough just to focus on one action, like folding your arms, for example, but to look at multiple changes in body language, as well as comparing them to what you already know about the person if it's someone who you already know well. Working on that observational skill so you notice when someone is behaving subtly differently, that's a really important, useful skill, especially in the workplace. You'll find the show notes for this episode at changeworklife.com/221, that's changeworklife.com/221, and you'll also find details of some of the coaching I offer if you go to changeworklife.com/coaching. I'm by no means an expert in body language or nonverbal communication, but communication is something that comes up a lot. If you're finding that you're having run ins with colleagues, or maybe you've been told in a performance review that your communication is something you should work on, that's definitely something that I might be able to help with. So, if you'd like to find out more, go to changeworklife.com/coaching, and book a complimentary, no obligation introductory call with me. There's another great episode coming up in two weeks' time, so if you haven't already, subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode, and I can't wait to see you then. Cheers. Bye.