Most people are still working the same 40-hour workweek introduced just under 100 years ago, and gym owners often go way beyond 40. In fact, many work closer to 80 hours a week.
This can quickly lead to burnout—a killer of small businesses.
In this episode of “Run a Profitable Gym,” Two-Brain founder and CEO Chris Cooper is joined by John Briggs, accountant and author of “Profit First for Microgyms.”
The two discuss John’s latest book, “The 3.3 Rule.” In the book, John pushes back against the idea that entrepreneurs—and their teams—should work until they drop. Instead, they can maximize productivity and avoid burnout by structuring their workdays into periods of focused work and breaks.
The structure is incredibly simple but effective—and it’s backed by science.
John wrote the “The 3.3 Rule” because he was tired of seeing small businesses close shop; he wants to help entrepreneurs preserve the energy and focus they need to build stable, profitable businesses.
Links
"The 3.3 Rule"
Gym Owners United
Book a Call
0:35 - Inspiration for the 3.3 Rule
8:23 - 3.3 Rule breakdown
16:48 - Implementing the 3.3 Framework
25:08 - 3.3 Rule and balance
31:29 - Challenges with the 3.3 Rule
Most people are still working the same 40-hour workweek introduced just under 100 years ago, and gym owners often go way beyond 40. In fact, many work closer to 80 hours a week.
This can quickly lead to burnout—a killer of small businesses.
In this episode of “Run a Profitable Gym,” Two-Brain founder and CEO Chris Cooper is joined by John Briggs, accountant and author of “Profit First for Microgyms.”
The two discuss John’s latest book, “The 3.3 Rule.” In the book, John pushes back against the idea that entrepreneurs—and their teams—should work until they drop. Instead, they can maximize productivity and avoid burnout by structuring their workdays into periods of focused work and breaks.
The structure is incredibly simple but effective—and it’s backed by science.
John wrote the “The 3.3 Rule” because he was tired of seeing small businesses close shop; he wants to help entrepreneurs preserve the energy and focus they need to build stable, profitable businesses.
Links
"The 3.3 Rule"
Gym Owners United
Book a Call
0:35 - Inspiration for the 3.3 Rule
8:23 - 3.3 Rule breakdown
16:48 - Implementing the 3.3 Framework
25:08 - 3.3 Rule and balance
31:29 - Challenges with the 3.3 Rule
John Briggs , welcome back to Run a Profitable Gym, man .
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Always a pleasure to have you on the show. And today we're talking about a different kind of number. We're talking about productivity. Uh, John's new book is called The 3.3 Rule. John , congrats on the new book, man.
Speaker 2:Thanks. Yeah, and as you know, having written more books than I have, Ooh , glad glad it's written and being published. It's a
Speaker 1:Lot of work. Yours are three times as good as mine, so even though I've written three times as many, we're even.
Speaker 2:Okay, fair. It's very generous of you. Thanks Coop . Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:Well, let's start with this. So this isn't like a strictly accounting book, right? What inspired you to write the 3.3 rule and then we'll get into what it means?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if people are familiar, I've obviously written the book Profit First for micro gyms. I'm a big proponent of profit first , especially in the gym space. Yeah, we wanna keep gym owners in business. Um, and so that book is a lot about cashflow and tax strategies. This one is definitely more of a passion project for me. I've been in the accounting industry my whole career. I mean, I have a master's degree in tax. And , um, one thing I learned early in my career, which set me on the path to create the firm that I did, was the way accounting firms mistreat their team members, all for the sake of profitability. It's just how can I squeeze every last ounce of energy out of my team , um, knowing that I'm going to push them out the door and they're gonna want to find a better solution to life. So I actually started this book just as a simple manifesto. I had this idea like, man, if accounting companies actually cared about their team members, they wouldn't do stuff like that. And I got into some science and some of the ways that I ran my company, and then I started talking to lawyers and engineers and then like literally named the industry. And you have a similar potential issue where companies just expect you to just work and work and work without realizing that you're going to end up pushing people. Uh, well, really the better way to say it , they're gonna , you're gonna snuff out their passion or doing whatever it is that they're doing. And so the idea of the book is how do we, the book was really written for people who are burnt out, nearly burnt out, or on a path that will inevitably lead to burnout. Um, and so how do we avoid that? Because burnout is, is the killer of, in my opinion, the economy. So that's kind of where we started with the book <laugh> .
Speaker 1:That's kind of a big topic. And obviously like, you know, those of us who work with accountants a lot, we see this in accounting right now. Like the only way you can hire an accountant in Canada is basically to buy out their firm, right? Is this part of the reason there are no accountants out there?
Speaker 2:It's absolutely, statistically 60% of accountants will leave the industry within three to five years. Yet enrollment in accounting programs is down drastically. Uh, because nowadays with social media things like Glassdoor and salary.com and Reddit, people can ex and actual accountants can express their experience. And a lot of people are saying like, whoa, why would I want to do that? Uh, seems like there might be less painful ways to get to where I want to go in my career. And so, yeah, that this is definitely one of the reasons and one of the goals of my book is let's get some information in the accounting industry so that people can change the way they run their firms. And we can keep accountants in the industry longer, but you know, it's not just accountants. Um , yeah . So I don't want any of your audience to be like, oh, great, we're gonna talk to a book about we're accountants. I promise it's app applicable to everybody. <laugh> .
Speaker 1:It's super applicable to gym owners. And um, so once John gets into the basic premise, you're gonna recognize here as a gym owner, like the , the , how the principles are gonna apply. I mean, yes, accountants get burned out, but if you've ever coached three CrossFit classes in a row, you know exactly what I'm talking about and what John's talking about here. So John, can you explain the core concept of the 3.3 rule and how it's different from traditional workday structure?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me start with the , uh, back history, if that's okay. Co . Yep . So a lot of people maybe forgot back in the 18 hundreds, the world was industrial age and they worked 180 to a hundred hours a week. And it's the way life was. They didn't have anything to compare it to. We have these machines going and humans were needed to maintain and keep the machines going, therefore there was constant like someone had to be there. Well, if you're working 80 to a hundred hours a week and you do the math, there's not a lot of time once you add in sleep to do anything else. So coming along to the early 19 hundreds when a well-known guy named Henry Ford is trying to sell motorized carriages, right? And , uh, you know, who doesn't want motorized carriages? People who don't have time to do anything other than go to work and sleep? So he made a decision and uh, was kind of villainized at the time, but he said, you know what, I'm gonna give my team my employees two weekend days. 'cause at the time, they only had a one day off and I'm gonna stop their workday at eight hours. 'cause at that point there was no cutoff. And you know what happened? People now weren't burnt out by the end of the now Friday work week , and they could go somewhere, but they can't walk. 'cause the places they wanted to go were a little bit further away. So car sales increased and fast forward a hundred years with all the advancements we've had as a country, as a world, we're still working on the same 40 hour work week that was created effectively because Henry Ford was a genius and wanted to sell more cars. So there's a lot of science behind what I'm gonna share, but the core message of the 3.3 rule relates to let's use the science and stop looking at it as a Monday through Friday, eight hour day workweek. So the rules , the rule states the most efficient workday is to work up to three hours, followed by a 30% recovery period. So that's where you get the three re relates to up to three hours. The 0.3 is the 30% recovery period. And we can obviously go into detail 'cause without the context of the book, some people are like, I still don't get it.
Speaker 1:We'll get real specific here, but it , this is obvious to a lot of entrepreneurs that when they started down the track, they quickly realized like, owning a gym is not a nine to five, it's more of a five to nine. And if you don't start taking a break midday, you quickly find that you could be back to that 80 hour work week . That said, most of us were raised in this, you know, school system of like, you can expect a nine to five career for 40 years and then you get the gold watch. And so some people are surprised when you hire them to coach and they're working 6:00 AM until nine, and then they have their entire day and they're back at 5:00 PM until eight. And that it causes some friction in their head. Like, is this what I'm supposed to be doing? In reality though, this is kind of like the optimal day, right John ? Is is that where we're headed?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Let's optimize our day instead of like putting ourselves in a confinement of when it should be. And especially, I'm glad you brought that up with gym owners. You know, you have the morning section before the rest of the world starts their day because they wanna get in their exercise. And then you for sure have a busy time at the end of people's workday. But then gym owners find themselves doing stuff in the middle of the day. I mean, they're already up, they're productive people, right ? Um , and so easily without boundaries around maybe how they should be structuring things, we have seen lots of gym owners say like, yeah, I'm actually working 80 hours because I just don't stop. Once I wake up I just keep going. You know, on a scale of one to 10, now how happy are you? You know, the number wasn't too high.
Speaker 1:Do we have to use integer ? Can it be like, yeah , it could be minus one, I guess <laugh>, but that's the thing, right? Is because we've been framed to, or we've been taught like you get to work and you stay at work until you are done work. We perceive that somehow we're getting ripped off even though we've got like six hours in the middle of the day that's open. But let's, let's get back to the basic premise here. So you said that we should be working up to three hours and then taking a 30% break. Let's, let's get into the science and the math a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay. Um, I will get into all of it. Oh , that's in the book. 'cause it's a lot. And you know, we don't have a lot of , all the time in the world. Uh , the two main ones I think that relate. There's a study done in the UK that people have been referencing ever since. Now that is the average worker is productive for two hours and 53 minutes a day. Hmm . So you're paying for eight hours. Yeah. But they're actually saying, I'm only giving my employer two hour and 53 minutes. And that'll make sense. It makes sense to me after seeing all the science. The other one, and this is the foundational element of the 3.3 rule. There's a guy , uh, from the University of Illinois Champaign , his name is Alejandro Yez . And he did this study and at the time he was interested in this idea of attention span. People were coming out with studies saying like, how long is someone's attention span? How long does it last? And he had the contrarian idea that there's no such thing as attention span because our attention is always on something. It just might not be what we should be spending like having our attention on. Right? Like if I'm daydreaming someone say , well you're not paying attention. I am paying attention to my daydream <laugh> . That's right. Right . Yeah . <laugh> . Yeah . So it's like, okay, so how, let , let me see how , how would I like confirm that there's no such thing as attention span? And that kind of went into this idea. He , he came across a study that talked about f physical stimulus. If our body has a con constant stimulus physically, it will neutralize that. Consider the clothes that we're wearing right now. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> , we put them on this morning and because the constant pressure of the fabric has been on our skin, our brain stopped registering that sensation. But as we're talking about it, you probably are maybe wiggling a little bit more and you can actually feel the fabric physically provide some sort of stimulus. Yeah . He's like, ah , I wonder if the same thing is exists with the way our attention works. So we did some studies and sure enough concluded that if we have maintained focus on something that's a constant stimulus and our brain will eventually neutralize it. And so we just kind of compare it , we combine that element with the two hours and 57, 53 minutes of productivity. And that's where we come up with let's push ourselves to be focused for up to three hours. And I say up to three hours because we are all a little bit different. Like for example , um, Mike Mcal is a good friend of mine. I'm sure your audience is familiar with many his , many of his books. He just had a new book all in. If you guys haven't heard about it, check out a copy. It's based on hiring. It's really great. Um, but he is like, yeah, when I'm in my like writing season for a book, he's like, I'm about 53 57 minutes and then I need a 15 minute break. Hmm . And it's so funny that as I was working with him and using him as a mentor for this book, he's like, it's so funny. As I'm reading your book John , I'm like, this totally supports the way I'm naturally approaching the way I do my own work. But other people like you get me say, hey, hey John, can you do some forecasting for me? Put an Excel file in front of me in your profit and loss statement. Dude, I can go three hours. I love that stuff. Right? Chris is , yeah ,
Speaker 1:No , I'm shaking my head. 'cause I'm like, oh , it's on Instagram, three minutes in <laugh> . You know , I don't even have Instagram. I'm just like, let , let me get a new app. <laugh> .
Speaker 2:So, and also for me, writing is harder. I don't consider myself a professional author. And so an hour and a half block man that, that's about the limit I could handle. Sitting down and writing and, and really having good focus time. So even the different responsibilities that we have throughout the day may require us to change. So that's why it's flexible up to three hours and then whatever length of time that was that you did focus, take a 30% recovery of that time. So if I worked an hour, it's about a 20 minute break. If I worked two hours, it's about a 40 minute break. If I do all the full three hours, I'm gonna take a full hour off.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking through this in , in coaching in my gym. And I know from thinking about it in the past, like let's say that I have to coach three classes in a row. My first class I'm gonna be about 80%. 'cause I'm just not like warmed up and in flow yet. My second class is gonna be my best and my third class I'm gonna be, you know, down to about 70%. So attention doesn't just like start off strong, stay strong and then drop off a cliff. Does it, there's kind of this like wax and wane , uh, curve to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The, the Princeton neurological, I think neurological institute that , that was such a hard word to say in the audio book . <laugh> it , they did a study that shows our brain has a natural cycle of focus , distractibility, focused distractibility. So absolutely, it's not just a , I'm a hundred percent focused, but we do know from science that after three hours, even if you're at 70%, you're gonna see a steep decline. Like some studies even showed people's focus dropped off after like 20 minutes, like a steep decline. And so part of it too is I wanted it to be more of a framework so people can tweak it and make it work within how they know they need to operate. And as they start practicing it, they'll realize there's a natural flow for them as far as like, oh, this task, yeah, I'm an hour, I'm good after that. I don't wanna have anything to do with it. Like, you might have some coaches who are great, who are a hundred percent, they can come in a hundred percent on one class, but by the second class it's like 50% , uh, to kind of like, you're gonna want to pay attention to the different , uh, skill sets and behaviors of your coaches because not all of 'em are created equal. And I don't think we need to force someone. It's like, look, if you, if you coach three classes in a row and the last two classes are terrible, I'd rather you coach a class, take an hour off, coach another class, take an hour. Like whatever that flow needs to be so that our members are getting the best experience.
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense. John . And, and I'm just curious, this doesn't apply specifically to Jim's, but do you find that that attention window is affected , uh, depending on where you are? So for example, I think my attention window is probably a little bit longer when I'm here at the two brain workshop than when I'm working from home.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. Our environment has so much to do with how we focus. In fact, we talk about in the book, I have a whole section on remote work that kind of relates to that. Where some people, if you read the article, say, you know, remote work is for the devil and the others say remote work is the next thing close to godliness, like complete opposite paradigms. And each of them have their own studies to support it. And they're both right. It's because we're all different. I have team members who have kids at home and uh , maybe a spouse who doesn't necessarily respect boundaries. And so when they're trying to work from home <laugh> , it's a disaster. I have others who like have a designated spot, their family honors that they're really productive, others don't have any distractions at home. Like when I'm at home, I don't wanna be a hundred percent focused, right? Like even the covid months when the world was shut down, I worked from home for like three and a half weeks when I was like, I can't handle this <laugh> . I am not as focused here. So just driving into the office by myself was way more productive here without distractions. And so yeah, I it a hundred percent the environment matters.
Speaker 1:Alright man , I'm gonna be sending a card to your wife after the show. But , uh, let's get back, let's get back to the gym world here. There are definitely days in my past and I know my coaches are going through this right now where they've booked four or five clients in a row. And I don't wanna discourage them from doing that. They're trying to , uh, be available when the clients are available. Like how can they structure their day so that they're doing like the 3.3 framework?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I had four clients in a row, then I would make sure my meetings are not an hour long. Okay ? Right. So again, if I am going to work back to back to back , I still wanna make sure that that back to back effort is within a three hour block. Now I think also some of your coaches need to recognize are they more introverted or more extroverted? Because both can be very successful to gym owners, but an introvert likely isn't gonna be able to handle back to back client meetings. Whether that's a no sweat intro or whether that's an actual paying client. Uh, just because they're introverted. Like it takes a lot more out of introverts. Uh , I know this 'cause I'm an introvert than , you know, they just have to be aware of who they are. And I think there's that fear. The FOMO comes in. It's like I have for example, a no sweat intro, right? Like, oh man, they're available this day, but I'm not. Let me make it work. You're on the phone with them, you're keeping the momentum going. Having it scheduled out the next day or two days later, or a different time that works for both you and them, I don't think is going to kill your opportunity to get a new client. I think sometimes it's okay to honor what works for you because if you don't, you're potentially subconsciously saying to the prospects, I'm going to fit you in knowing that I'm gonna give you a less valuable experience because I'm gonna be kind of burnt out. I'm gonna have less energy going into this meeting where it's like really, like let's just be fair to ourselves. And the clients say, I want to give you a hundred percent and this is the day based on what you just told me, that our schedules match up and we can do that.
Speaker 1:I , I really think to support you on that, John , there are two big mistakes that I see Jim owners is making with NSIs. And the first is they, they block it in their normal workout time. So person walks in the door, of course they're 10 minutes early, your shirt's off, you're sweating all over the place, you know, the Metallica black album is just going crazy in the background and the client is already like playing defense, you know, before, before you even sit down with them . The second one is you're like, okay, I've got this block, I've got two classes and then a break, and then another class. I'm gonna put them in that break. And so of course the client shows up 10 minutes early, it's loud, there's 30 strangers running around doing stuff that they don't understand. You might actually be better to give yourself a 30 minute window, get yourself back into a calmer state than meet with the client anyway. Right? Like I, I do see the value of having a break before an NSI, I just did a semi-private session in my gym where I'm a client and I was talking about this book , uh, with the coach Jessica and the other person in my semi-private group today, Lauren and Lauren's also an entrepreneur. And I, I was sharing like, some of the lessons, but what was interesting was I realized that a semi-private session for a personal trainer is actually a little bit easier on the introvert because Jess would, how's it going? You know, her stuff, she's the spark plug and then she can back off for five minutes while the other, while the clients are talking. So, you know, maybe that helps a little bit too with mm-Hmm . <affirmative> with breaks, but yeah .
Speaker 2:Yeah . Good idea. Um ,
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just a couple of different ideas that I had since reading the book and that that's the beautiful thing about good books with a simple concept like yours and Markowitz's is you, they're so easy to understand because you, you've taken a complex topic and made it very simple that I can immediately find application. And, and that's what differentiates this book from a lot of other like business book about time efficiency and junk like that. Right. John , I wanna get into like, how does technology help, so you mentioned the role of technology and digital tools in optimizing the 3.3 rule. Like what are some specific tools or technology that you recommend to help Jim specifically adopt this?
Speaker 2:You know, I wish I had time to create an app. <laugh>.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I I thought about that. Like how cool would even like a little cube box or something where I could have it on one thing, I hit timer and then when I'm done I flip it over and it automatically calculates the 30% time. There's probably not one specific thing. Um, calendaring is really important when it comes to technology and keeping the 3.3 rule because most people can't keep their entire workday in their head, right? And so by using a calendar app, even if it's simple as Google Calendar, which I use, I can clearly see when I have enough work where it's like, oh yeah, that's more than three hours. Let me, I need to potentially rearrange that block out a actual break time . And then like , so visualizing your calendar I think is super important to honor the 3.3 rule. And then part of the technology stuff too is like there's a 3.3 rule and the book goes into the 3.3 system, which is about your team's gonna be more productive just with the simplicity of adopting. Let them work up to three hours, let them take breaks where they're not doing any work whatsoever. Like give them permission, give yourself permission to do that. They're already gonna increase productivity that way. But then if you wanna like go even further, which we want everyone to do, all of our readers to do for sure, how do I make that focus time even more productive? And so that's where technology comes into play, where, you know, for gym owners that could be actually utilizing the gym software they're currently paying for, but never looking at all the things that are open, right? A lot of times I need this software, I have this problem with keeping track of my members and attendance. Cool. Here's the software that can help . Great. Oh by the way, the software actually does a couple other things that could help you. Like maybe let's take some time to figure out how that can help you be more productive. It's the whole sharpening saw idea, right? By Stephen Covey. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , let's take some time to do that. But I don't have a specific technological like app or solution for everyone. I think it just, let's just utilize what's out there to make us more productive.
Speaker 1:I think the best app I ever saw for this was on a Harry Potter movie and they had like this hourglass and the sand would run faster if the conversation was really boring. <laugh>
Speaker 2:Just go to target and get that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I had a question from my coach because this is the topic of conversation in our semi-private session this morning. And she said, okay, well I'm gonna coach three hours in a row and then I'm gonna jump in the noon group and we got this really hard workout that will be my break. And I said, I'm not sure that actually counts as a break, but we wanted to get your opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah. As the gym owner, you are always on when you're in your gym and there's members present. Yes. So even if you're trying to, I want to go work out , which is a great break thing in general. Yeah. It may not be the best thing for a gym owner to do if they're doing it in one of their classes. Now if the gym owner has the ability to really shut off and just work out , then great go for it. But my guess is in between their reps, they're looking at the other members and they're making notes like, Hey, Bob seems to like he's not hinging the right way. Or his old deb squad isn't down there . I wonder if I could meet with him later and let's, let's get him some more mobility. Or this guy seems extra winded, I wonder if maybe we should meet about his nutrition. Like I personally don't think most gym owners are gonna be able to shut that off just because they wanna serve so much they can't help themselves. So I would recommend doing your workouts probably by yourself still now . Okay . Again, if you're gonna work out with your gym and their classes, that's great. It's just not, in my opinion, a i that's not a 30% recovery period. That would be considered work
Speaker 1:That wouldn't work for me either. I'm , I'm always watching like, how's, how are they doing that? You know? Uh , kind of auditing as we go. It wouldn't work for me either. John , I'd like to zoom out a little bit here because, you know, one of the biggest problems at my gym, and we were locked down for almost two years, but I think a lot of gym owners are hitting this wall right now. How does the 3.3 rule address things like burnout and work life imbalance, you know, on the bigger picture?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good. And I'm so glad you called it work life imbalance . It's like we totally know when we're out of balance, when something's imbalanced. But the idea of work life balance the opposite that people think it's a fallacy, it doesn't exist. Like work affects life. Life affects work. So, oh , how, how does affect that? When I, if you think about burnout and now you think about this idea that, okay , well I guess let's put ourselves in that place. What leads to burnout? Working a lot of hours in a row. Usually at some point after working so long, whether that's days, hours, weeks, years with some gym owners falling on the sword, right? I know you and I preach the same thing. Like, you guys have got to be profitable. Some gym owners don't pay attention 'cause they feel you have a natural dopamine and serotonin that happens due to the nature of your job and saving human beings from dying like that. You have a natural chemical reaction there. So it's easy to overlook sometimes that you do need profitability to stay open. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative> . But what happens is they'll go that long and all the endorphins are kicking in, it's awesome. And they're saving lives. And then at one point, at some point they're gonna have that moment, I don't want to call it a entrepreneurial seizure, like , uh, what's his bucket does, but it's some sort of like seizure and it's holy crap, I have nothing to show. Maybe it's a profitability seizure or lack of, I have nothing to show for all this hard work I've been doing for x amount of time that will put up a wall. And usually burnout , that's the moment of burnout. And then closing the doors or making a massive life change happens pretty closely after because you will not be able to get rid of that idea that you're killing yourself with nothing to show for it . Because human nature is, we want to receive value back for the effort we're putting into something. It's just natural. We're not gonna fight it. So how, so if that's how burnout usually happens, what do we do to avoid that? We throw in the 3.3 rule where I work, I give myself a purposeful break and it's an actual break. So my brain resets so that when I come back, I'm just as energized. Because also what happens is as I'm giving myself purposeful breaks, I am allowing my mind to take an opportunity to realize maybe there's some things I need to change about the profitability of what I'm doing. Instead of just go, go, go, go, go, go, go putting out fires, hoping everything works out. Look, hope and pray method is really great. I am, I'm a Christian, it works for that. It's not a good business plan. Okay , <laugh> . And so let's have rules in place. And that's what the 3.3 rule does. It gives us that opportunity to always be rejuvenated and focused . It's just a great cycle. Does
Speaker 1:It work on a larger scale? I mean, what you just said reminds me of , um, the original Tim Ferris book where he was telling people that they should have many retirements throughout life. So for example, is it ever a good idea to work for three months and then take a month off? Or is it a
Speaker 2:Hundred percent dependen on where you're Yeah , exactly. Yeah. Um, like for example, this book has been a lot of effort and my goal is to take a lot of weeks off when this is over, right? Um, so yeah, it's, it's um , minuscule on, like you can focus on the 3.3 rule on a daily basis. Yep . But then you can also look at it as like, you know what, I have worked three months straight in a row. What's the harm of taking a week off? You don't even have to go anywhere. What , like, some of the best time off I have is just I took the time off. Everyone thinks I'm on vacation, but I'm really just hanging out at my house enjoying quiet and like, again, refreshing. I a lot we're coming back from the breaks . Right? A lot of people take time off during the holiday break. And I think people can realize when you do that, a lot of good thoughts happen. Thoughts that wouldn't have happened if you didn't give your time that space to not focus on anything.
Speaker 1:I think it's also true in um , like non , uh, I don't wanna say non-thinking jobs, but in, in hand more hands-on jobs. I think it's still true. You know, there's three builders working on our house right now and one guy is like, I want to get my eight hours in and leave. He works through his lunch, he works through breaks, but he gets far less done than the other two guys who sit down and have a coffee at 10. They have a half an hour for lunch. They sit down and have a coffee at three. And it's, it's, I never put it together until now that these guys who take breaks are actually getting more stuff done and they seem to love their job a lot more too.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. Think about it, you set up for the day and you're in your head like, I'm gonna go eight hours straight. Well most people are like, oh that sounds terrible. Yeah . So they kind of pitter pat around because why? Well, I'm gonna put in eight hours versus the other guy who is gonna take breaks. And even with the 3.3 rule, it'll make it even more defined where you are intentional about taking breaks. So now all of a sudden it's like, I'm gonna take a break and I know that break is gonna be sufficient for me. I'm gonna go all in right now. I don't have to pitter patter around because I can be completely focused because I know I've been given permission to just do nothing during this other time period. So there's no guilt and I can completely recover. And especially at physical labor stuff, like you wouldn't ask like think your members, your coaches here, your audience could be like, yeah , uh, we would never ask a member to work out eight hours in a row, even if it's a low stimulus thing. Like that's effectively what a blue collar job is. Right? You're , you're at a low most time a kind of low stimulus, but physically active for eight straight hours. That sounds terrible.
Speaker 1:<laugh> . Especially in the cold <laugh> . So John, like what are some challenges that businesses have? Let's, let's say the CEO or the owner is all in on this love , it makes total sense, I'm gonna implement it. What are some of the challenges that they have when it is time to actually execute inside their business?
Speaker 2:The first one is explaining it to your team because , uh, a lot of times they don't, first of all, they're not gonna believe you. And so there might be thinking, okay, I'm gonna, like in my, in our firm's case, I'm gonna do a tax return and then for my break I'm gonna read emails, right? And that could be anything. I'm gonna do X and then I'm gonna do emails for my recovery period. Mm-Hmm . Because I don't want the owner to be mad at me 'cause I don't believe them emails is part of work. That's not an appropriate recovery period activity. So that's one of the things. The second thing is to like let them know like , you're still clocked in, right? I'm still gonna pay you for eight hours, but with this rule, you actually only only getting six hours of work focus time. But I believe with the science, obviously if they're bought in, they know that they're gonna get more out of their team now, giving them permission to have two hours off basically during the day. Yeah. So like if I had an hourly employee, their , I would include their 30% recovery period as part of what I'm paying them for because I, I, I know that it's just more efficient. Those are the two biggest ones. Some smaller ones studies show working through lunch. So a lot of people are gonna wanna work through lunch to try to be effective. Like the 3.3 rule makes it work out very nicely where you can completely check out mentally from work while you do your lunch. A torque , I think was the name of the company that did a study that showed their team members who just ate lunch during their lunch break were like 70% more effective than their team members who tried to work through lunch.
Speaker 1:It makes a lot of sense, man. And like, you know, in Canada what happened when government agencies started coming back, they , they started adopting this practice that they called hoteling. Now this is despite the Harvard Business Review saying that hoteling is the least productive method of work in the history of humankind. But these agencies, they would come back and they would be like, okay, everybody's here for eight hours and your desk changes every day . First come first serve , uh, you know, and like, you know, you take breaks whenever you want, but you gotta put in your eight hours. Of course productivity went way down and people started doing their work at home because they couldn't get anything done in the office. This is like the counterpoint to that, which is you stay focused for up to three hours and then you take up to 10% of that time off. And I would bet more and more studies are gonna come out , uh, just showing how much better this actually is. John , fantastic book is like my favorite book of 2023 and it's just coming up. When is it actually available for people to buy in 2024?
Speaker 2:So you can pre-order now, depending on when this release is . Uh, but January 15th is the official availability date
Speaker 1:That is gonna be, yeah. So the week this comes out, it'll be available to you. We'll post a link right in the show notes. I said it as my favorite book at 2023. 'cause John slid me a PDF version a few weeks ago. Guys, I am so fired up about this book, John , it , it's not a surprise that you wrote this, but it's a surprise that an accountant wrote this, if that makes sense. <laugh> . So it does, thank you for thinking <laugh>. Yeah. Thank you for thinking outside the box, man. This is so good.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Thanks Chris. I appreciate it. I I really hope that we can get this in the hands of small business owners because I think whether it's the Canadian economy or the US economy, it's on the back of small business owners is the way our economies function and the fortune one hundreds get all the attention, but the reality is, if we lost the Fortune 100 companies, we would be fine economically because we have enough small businesses. If we lost all the small businesses, we wouldn't be. And the biggest threat to small businesses going outta business isn't necessarily profitability. It's a consequence of, but it's burnout . Obviously if I'm not profitable, that kind of leads into me feeling burnout. But I just want to keep business owners in business. I want to keep them fired up and passionate about why they got into business. And I think this rule really will help them accomplish that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's why it's especially important right now. I I think the next 12 months are gonna see more entrepreneurs just succumb to burnout close up shop and nobody wins when that happens. So John , man, thank you for the 3.3 rule and we'll have a link in the show notes for everybody to go out and get it.