Could you acquire over 400 members for your gym? And if you hit that total, could you hold onto them?
Today on “Run a Profitable Gym,” host Mike Warkentin chats with Rune Laursen, owner of BoxLife/CrossFit 5512 in Denmark. Rune made our December 2023 Top 10 leaderboard for client count, which ran from 324 to 1,034 members.
Rune’s already improved on his late-2023 stats: His gym now has 512 members and is steadily growing. He explains how he brings in and retains so many clients by using No Sweat Intros, Goal Review Sessions and the Prescriptive Model—and he backs up everything he says with data!
Rune credits much of his retention success to adding a CSM—a client success manager. He’s even looking at hiring a second CSM to ensure he holds onto all his hard-earned members.
Tune into this data-packed episode to learn how to expand your gym’s membership and build systems to support its growth.
Links
The Prescriptive Model
Gym Owners United
Book a Call
1:37 - Rune’s retention
5:17 - Goal reviews & retention
10:36 - Always be calling
17:09 - Systemizing for success
26:33 - Final thoughts
Could you acquire over 400 members for your gym? And if you hit that total, could you hold onto them?
Today on “Run a Profitable Gym,” host Mike Warkentin chats with Rune Laursen, owner of BoxLife/CrossFit 5512 in Denmark. Rune made our December 2023 Top 10 leaderboard for client count, which ran from 324 to 1,034 members.
Rune’s already improved on his late-2023 stats: His gym now has 512 members and is steadily growing. He explains how he brings in and retains so many clients by using No Sweat Intros, Goal Review Sessions and the Prescriptive Model—and he backs up everything he says with data!
Rune credits much of his retention success to adding a CSM—a client success manager. He’s even looking at hiring a second CSM to ensure he holds onto all his hard-earned members.
Tune into this data-packed episode to learn how to expand your gym’s membership and build systems to support its growth.
Links
The Prescriptive Model
Gym Owners United
Book a Call
1:37 - Rune’s retention
5:17 - Goal reviews & retention
10:36 - Always be calling
17:09 - Systemizing for success
26:33 - Final thoughts
A CrossFit gym with more than 400 members. It's rare, but it can be done. And you're gonna find out how it's done on this episode of Run a Profitable Gym. I'm your host, Mike Boton . Before we go further, please hit subscribe so you don't miss anything. I want you to get all the info that we produce every show to help you run a better business. Now today, huge member counts in coaching gyms on leaderboard. In December, 2023, ran from 324 members to 1,034 members. I've got one of the top 10 gym owners here with me. Ru Larson runs box life near Copenhagen, Denmark. We're gonna find out why he has so many members, and I'll tell you this, I know this already, these December stats, he had 4 57. He's now at the date of recording, which is February 14th. He's at 512 members in his gym. So we're welcome and thanks for being here today.
Speaker 2:Thanks, man. <laugh> glad to be here.
Speaker 1:I am pumped about this 'cause this, I, you know, back when I was running my gym, we never even came close to the numbers that you've got. I need to know, I'm just gonna put you on the spot. What's the single biggest reason? Why do you have so many members?
Speaker 2:Well, the second, the second thing is always have to say we do a lot of stuff, but , uh, the most important, the single one is probably nose with intros and the Goal Rios , I'd have to say. So one to one conversation with a lot of members.
Speaker 1:Okay. We're gonna dig into that because whatever you call them . Yeah. And we're gonna dig in because one of the things that's interesting is if you have 500 members and you're doing goal reviews, that's a huge commitment of time. I'm gonna ask you later on how you do it, but I wanna just dig into a couple of things first before we get to that. So, talk to me first about retention. So you , that's, there's always two ends when you have lots of clients, you're either re you're retaining a lot of clients and you're adding them. Talk to me about retention and if we start getting into goal reviews, let's do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well , uh, to just put some frames around , uh, training here in Denmark, training is very cheap. Uh, and nearly all memberships are, and we are CrossFit Gym and we'll still compare to the rest of the world ridiculously cheap. But I'm the most expensive in Denmark. Uh , but we are still below a hundred Euros , uh, per month. But I think that just my majority of the Danish people knows that training is important. And we have a lot of sports in different ages. So I just think that it's more normal to exercise here. So that's also one of the things that drives the numbers of , if I have to talk about some external stuff. But on the Rece retention side, that's also not normal to do anything specific there. So we are quite unique on that point here in Den market list . And some of the , the basic stuff is stopping to text people. Um, if they're not training, you know, I'm not doing that, but you know, that's the most common thing here. So you could put them on a do not disturb list list and stuff like that. But in essence, what we are trying to do is just to get people to just use the membership as much as possible. So we are just going the opposite way.
Speaker 1:How do you, so you've got this huge pile of people, I guess I should ask now, how many staff members do you have and do you have like a specific person who's in charge of retention? Or is that a group of people? Or how do you, who handles those jobs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've tried some , um, different ways. And also when I joined two brands in the beginning , uh, we had a lot of trouble on starting all the Go reviews and stuff like that, because people are not used to just getting asked them , why do you even train? Well , uh, that's, that step was a big step for a lot of people. So the staffing right now is including myself. We have three full-Time employees, and then I have like 15 part-time coaches. Okay. Um, yeah, I think that's, that's around the team. Uh , and we'll try some different roles and descriptions, but , uh, we have a , uh, CSM of course, which , uh, I call her our in-house Happiness Manager. Okay . So she's in charge of all the events and , uh, the , the conversation and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Is she <crosstalk> ?
Speaker 2:Yes. Okay. She is . But uh , she also does some administration work and stuff like that. Mm-Hmm . So it's a hybrid, but as it is of now, it is probably 70% of the time on talking to members because we have so many right now. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So she'll need a colleague soon.
Speaker 1:Okay. And it's interesting, I have talked to some gyms, gym owners who have said that retention and client management is so important to them that they hired two people or more in that cluster client success manager role. And listeners, if you don't know what that is, it's basically a person who's in charge of retention and there's metrics attached to that. You're trying to get people to stay longer, which there's a variety of things you can do. Ru mentioned texting people when they don't show up. There's also birthday gifts, celebrations, putting them on, podiums in , you know, interviewing them, sending all these different things that you can do. Uh , I wanna talk specifically, you mentioned on the intro goal reviews . Now this is a really interesting one because Trug Grain recommends that you meet with clients every 90 days to review goals. It's a noble idea. It's very difficult for some people to do it because they just don't commit to it. And then when you get larger, client counts, it gets very hard to do unless you're a great manager and you get help. So tell me how you've managed to do this because it's driving your attention. Yeah, I need to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And also , uh, if you had to add to list of , uh, problems if people haven't been used to it for a long time, it's also a new thing. So when you suggest it , it's , uh, it's a better idea in your head. And then there's,
Speaker 1:Okay , so you , you've gotta change the client. I mean, you have to change the client journey, right? Because they're not used to doing this, and now you're saying you need to meet with me every 90 days. Some of them will like, ah , but others will realize, hey, this is added value and I'm getting better service. So talk to me about everything involving goal reviews and retention at your gym .
Speaker 2:Yes. So also , uh, for context, I've been with two rings for now nearly two years now. Okay . Or a little bit over two years. And one year ago , uh, we had 50 goal reviews , um, running, which means in a 90 day period we will meet with 50 people. Okay. So that would , that would be a little over 10% , um, at that point. And then we tried a lot of stuff. So our client journey right now is up to two . We meet with our , uh, new clients , uh, one time per month for the first three months, and then afterward every 90 day. So , uh, that, that is , uh, the plan right now. So how we came to that, because in the beginning I, you know, as noble as it seemed, I just, okay. My CSM, can you please just reach out to the people and , uh, offer this crazy great idea? Yeah. So we , uh, did the classic thing , you know, at a , just a Facebook post in our community group and say , just book, I'm here to help you. Did it work? We got like three bookings, I think. Okay. <laugh> , we got , yeah. So we, we got hurt. Our feelings got hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Uh , so we were like, okay, how do we, how can we get this thing rolling? So we started with the new clients because the new clients hasn't any habits yet, so we can just , um, this is just how we do things. And they're like, okay, well great. Let's do that then <laugh> , they don't have any way we usually do this. So , um, they were happy to do that. But still , um, on the nose , sweat intro sites , which is a conversation I have with a newly or potentially new client , uh, before they start start training at the gym , we have around five to 10 at that point per week. Uh, so it took some time to, to climb up to, to 50. Um, it's also ha they have to sign up before getting enrolled, obviously. And at that point, we only talk to people every three months. So what I did nearly six months later or something like that, when we hit around the , the 50 mark , uh, is that I thought, okay, well what is the next great group to try to invite in that is probably the members who have a hard time getting results , uh, or coming to the gym. So we started reaching out systematically to everyone who hasn't been training for the past two weeks. Uh , and that's also, by the way, retention wise , very good to do. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> because we had 400 ish members at that point, and when we pulled the list, there were like a hundred people on that list. You know, maybe 20 of them were doing pt, so they do not check in , but that will still give us 80 people who hasn't been training for the past two weeks. So that was a eye-opener for me. So I was like, okay, let's go call those people.
Speaker 1:That's what, 8,000 euros in revenue too , that right. Per month. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So we started calling them and enrolling in the , in the goal review as well, but it took some time. So I set a goal for my , uh, CSM that she has to add 15 meetings to a calendar every month. That's the goal to do that. But then I saw it was still hard for her to , um, to do because, you know, she had to call people and then schedule a meeting, have the meeting, but also do a lot of other stuff. So , um, it was, it was , it was hard to , for her to do all that stuff. So what I did is I took , uh, one of my coaches and , uh, I signed them up to do the contact. So , uh, actively reaching out to all of them. Um, and that resulted in dropping the list from 80 , uh, at risk members to , uh, sub 10 . I think we have an average on seven people on that list now.
Speaker 1:Okay. Yeah . That's impressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And again, for context , we had 120 list people , members at that point, uhhuh . So we have added 120 members since then, and we still only have seven on that list.
Speaker 1:Okay. So listeners, I'm gonna put this in perspective for you. If you're not doing goal reviews, the , a great way to start is just to start doing them with new people coming in. Yes . They don't know it's new. They don't know it's different. They don't know. It's weird. They just do that. That that's your client journey. It's , and then you've got, its this large mass of people like that ruins Jim , where they're just doing this program and they , it's expected and you're selling it. This is part of the value. You're buying this attention to detail. You're buying this consultation. It's great. And Ru's done an interesting thing too on these intakes meeting with the clients every month in the first three months, then every 90 days after that. The cool part about that is that first 90 day period, that's when your clients are most at risk. Data shows that they're the most likely to leave. Everyone knows us in the fitness industry. If you can keep them for those first 90 days, you've got a really good shot at getting them into the past a year mark, and then even further. So these are huge things. Next and Run did this very tactically, what is the next group of people that I'm going to start looking at? He looked at as at risk people. That's this huge pile of people that are not showing up regularly, not getting results. They're almost out the door. Contact them, target them, get them doing something. You're fixing your retention problem from there. Did you backfill then at that point and start looking at all your general members who are training and start putting goal reviews for them too?
Speaker 2:Yes. And we also say , uh, saw the , the effects of what we were doing because suddenly newer members were getting greater results faster than all of the old members. So after working on this in a year, we suddenly got the trust and they were starting feeling they missed out on the opportunity. So, you know, all the members who in the beginning said, no, thanks, I'm good. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , they were probably like, if they did not ask me. But you know, when I asked them, they were like , okay, maybe I should try this.
Speaker 1:Aha . So that's a cool , so
Speaker 2:It had an effect .
Speaker 1:Very cool plan.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So it had some effect not to at the same degree , uh, as reaching out to people. So what I did next is like, okay, this has some potential. So just let's get the coach even more time to call people. So it's still in the same order. So first you have to contact all new members. Mm-Hmm , <affirmative> second, you have to call , uh, call at risk. And third, if you have more time, please call all regular members. So , uh, this resulted , uh, in three months ago when we started , uh, rolling out on , um, more on all members, we added 120 goal reviews in one month. Wow . So before we were doing like 62, 70 ish, because people also quit sometimes or cancel , uh, I think we just hit 200 now.
Speaker 1:Wow. So you went from 50 go reviews and then now to like 200 a month
Speaker 2:For three months? Yeah, for
Speaker 1:Three months. Okay. That's incredible. So , but
Speaker 2:It is unique booking. So, you know, if a if a client is a new client , uh, they will have four booking, but we still only count them as one.
Speaker 1:Okay. Now what are you seeing one members seeing ? So what are you seeing in your metrics? 'cause like this is a large time commit . Commit , and you have a person or people that are dedicated to doing this. And these meetings take time. Do you see the results in your metrics? Like, are your retention, is your retention getting better? Is your , uh, client current increasing? I think it is, obviously. Uh , yeah . Yeah . What other do you see? Like, are , is your revenue getting better? What do you see?
Speaker 2:Yes, it is our front , uh, front end revenue, which we define as everything sold other than memberships. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , uh, to , to the conversations that has gone dramatically up. Okay . Um , so we , uh, I don't , what is that in, in dollars? That would be $20,000, I think per month we added extra Wow. On Yeah. Not including the membership fees. So , uh, yeah, that was good one <laugh>. And then also our , uh, yeah, and then also our retention, obviously , uh, length of engagement. We were pretty adverse before joining Two Rain and , uh, doing things systematically. So I think we were like 12 months at that point. And I set a three year gold , uh, which would, I would like , I would like to try, try to cross 20 months . And we crossed that two months ago, I think. And that's only one and a half year later. So I need to set a new goal.
Speaker 1:Wow . Okay. So your business is doing incredible things. You're adding lots of members, you're keeping 'em longer, and you're selling more. Like this is kind of a rocketship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and , uh, to be honest, I did not even try it because when I signed up for Super Brands in the beginning when , when we did a lot of changes and raised some of the rates and, you know, introduced all this fancy stuff, the member count dropped , uh, dramatically. We were around 440 at that point, I think. And then we dropped to around 380 ish and Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And then I was just like, okay, maybe it's not doable to do all this stuff with so many people. Uh, and that's okay because the memberships , uh, average price is going up as well, so that's fine. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And then I didn't even look at it for a year. I was just looking at revenue and length of engagements pretty much. And then one year later I looked and I'm like, wow, okay. I'm at four 70 now. What happened? <laugh> , I didn't think that was possible.
Speaker 1:Wow . Okay. So that's interesting. So you trimmed people in the beginning, like, how much do you raise rates by?
Speaker 2:We've done between one time per year for the past four years, and we raised them with like 30%, 40%, 20%. And now we did a little one on 13%, I think.
Speaker 1:Okay. So slightly painful to start. You lose a few people, but long term now your business is stronger because you're bringing in new people at those higher rates. Correct?
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. Yeah . They also ,
Speaker 1:And this is huge, and they stay longer. Okay. Yeah . So that's interesting. So while , I mean, I have so many questions for you here , but what I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you this one because it's a , I I'm sure people are asking about it now. How are you finding these people? So you're adding lots of people and you're bringing them in at a higher rate than you did before. How are you finding these people and getting 'em into your business?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Uh , well, normally we have , uh, I try to get as many , uh, streams , uh, as possible. But our most common is , uh, Facebook ads. Okay. They are working very great. We have some organic , uh, where we reach out to local , uh, Facebook communities , uh, in our area, especially when we're starting our instruction courses, which is a , uh, six week course. Cause referrals obviously, but we actually, I , we could do more of that, but you know, we can see the last , uh, what that's , what's the , the name of that? You know, just the one training training event we did at New Year's Eve. We had 120 people coming in to one workout. Yeah. <laugh> . So I'm like, okay, if 20% of , uh, 25% of all my members want to come, I'm doing something right here. So , uh, I could work more on retention , uh, or sorry , referrals, but I don't, at the moment, at least, we have built some lead magnets that , uh, we are also using. And then I just spent a lot of time getting better at marketing last year. So , uh, this January we hit jackpot. So I think our, at a normal months , we get around 30 leads, but , uh, the hundred percent correct number is, is last month we got 221 leads. Wow . Which resulted in 55 members.
Speaker 1:Wow. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah , that was a big one.
Speaker 1:Listeners, I'm just gonna point out to you that every time I ask bru a question, he's giving me actual numbers and data. And if this is incredible, because back when I was running a gym, I wouldn't have had a clue like , oh , I think we got three members last month. No idea. Yeah . These are hard numbers that are coming. He's literally looking over there and telling me the numbers and the progressions of what he is done in his business. If you wanna take one step toward being a better gym owner today, start looking at your numbers and just start on one number. If you want room , focus on retention, focus on other think length of engagement, focus on some numbers, and start tracking those numbers. That is like the number one thing I might give you to take outta the show is look at your numbers, RO how do you, all these numbers you're giving me are huge. You must have an incredible bunch of systems that back up everything in your gym. Because if you don't, I imagine the whole thing just falls apart. Like, I could never have managed foreign members. Like how are , how have you systemized everything so that things don't fall apart?
Speaker 2:I've tried a lot of stuff <laugh> . Yeah. One of the key takeaways I had last year was , uh, I tried to educate my staff in doing a bunch of stuff, especially was some of my PTs, to get them better at selling more PTs or retain the clients for longer and stuff like that. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . But , um, the lesson was do not put your best , uh, person on your biggest problem. Put them on your best opportunities instead. Ah . So , uh, I tried to instead just find out what are my coaches or employees passions and just give them like 10 times more of that and divide the , the task between them in that way. So that really things started to take off when I did that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Do you have a big staff playbook and do you have like precise job descriptions? Yes . Roles and responsibilities? All of it. Yeah .
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. Okay . And I also have weekly meetings with my staff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , I have a , um, team meeting where we discuss some of the, the KPIs that we're looking at at the moment and how things are going. Obviously one time a month we are looking at the gym's numbers, are we hitting targets? Stuff like that. But also having a one-to-one with my full-time coaches every week , uh, we are just asked them how things going. Uh , can I support you in any way or do you need more help to anything that is also helping them . A lot of think ,
Speaker 1:Okay, every successful gym owner that comes on the show, when I ask 'em if they have systems and playbooks, they say, yes, that happens every single time. No one's like, no, I just wing it. Every single person says I have a system. So if you're listening, you not have a system, you wanna be successful, get some systems in place, start with roles and responsibilities, who does what in your gym and when do they do it? And what is a 10 outta 10? That's a great start. Sorun, you talked about you've got all these clients. Do you have a rough breakdown of how many are doing just group training? How many are doing pt? Like do you have an idea of what your client list looks like and who does what?
Speaker 2:Yes. Um , pretty much perfectly. We have , uh, 25% of our revenue coming from PT or small group.
Speaker 1:Okay . So it's not just, they're not funneling tons of people just into group training. You actually have a , a very high percentage, like if you've got 500 members, 125 or so are doing pt. Yes. Okay. So that's interesting. And pt, talk to me a little bit. What PT rates in , uh, in Europe in Denmark, are they lower as in relation to like the group training? Or how does that reflect based on what you see elsewhere? Like are in North America, PT rate might be $75.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Then we're higher than that. Uh, what would that be in dollars ? Just a moment. I
Speaker 1:Don't know the conversion. I can pull it up if you're not doing it.
Speaker 2:Oh , just dude .
Speaker 1:See , he ruins the numbers guy. He's just cracking these things out faster than I can do it. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 2:One session is $130 .
Speaker 1:Really. So that's interesting. Yes . So your group training rates in Denmark are lower. It's very cheap. Yeah. But your PT rates are higher. It's higher.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay,
Speaker 1:That's fascinating. Uh, why is that? Do you know?
Speaker 2:Um, I think it's , um, uh, the history in Denmark, we had a lot , a long euro of , um, bigger players , uh, just , uh, driving down prices. And then we also have some non-profits organizations in down , like a lot of them when you can sign up, you know, for an entire year at a gym for like mm-Hmm , <affirmative> $30 or something like that, because it's good for wellbeing and obviously this , but , uh, people just see this membership. So I think that when private gyms start popping up, they were too afraid to set the rate as they should. So I'm trying to climb the ladder as , uh, as fast as I possibly think I can. But , uh, the PT is , um, is what can build a career for my coaches.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you, I mean, like , I was really curious about this because often when we see huge client counts in gyms, we all think these are all just group members, right? So we think, oh, there's 500 group members funnel into classes. Like they giant 30 person group classes, but you've actually got 25% that are just doing pt and that PT rate is well hybrid, huge hybrid even. So talk to me about the hybrid, because your PT rate is huge. So what's a hybrid membership? How does that structured and what does it cost there?
Speaker 2:We don't have a fixed cost on a hybrid membership. Okay . But , but we just , uh, try to bring in as many meaningful , um, products or services as we can for our , uh, client avatar. Uh , so we do the prescription model, which is just asking everyone who signs up, what do you need? And obviously a lot of stuff on why they need it, who they are, where they're at , stuff like that. So we can make a plan for them. So sometimes it will include nutrition, sometimes it'll include pt , um, flexibility , uh, group classes , uh, coaching, stuff like that. So hybrid is just because we build a lot of individual programs for people. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . So of course we're going to need different stuff.
Speaker 1:So what would hybrid membership rates gimme a bracket as to high and low? What would, what would kind of averages be? I love that I can just , uh, you're like , uh, uh, you're like Chad , GPT for gym owners here . I can just ask you anything. And you've got the numbers, <laugh>. Yeah. I'm having a good time with this.
Speaker 2:So a, that would be $900 dollars a month.
Speaker 1:Whoa . So this is incredible. So your average revenue, I, I'm guessing over the last two years, your average revenue just went up like a , a rocket. It
Speaker 2:Did. Yeah. Yeah, it did. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have any I
Speaker 2:Like , um, what , sorry.
Speaker 1:No, go ahead. You were just gonna tell me what I was gonna ask. Yeah ,
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't know the , uh, the numbers without doing the conversion. So yeah , an easy way to say it. I'd say that our membership or , or the average revenue per member was like 80% of our standout , um, do membership because, you know, we have some kids programming or Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> some other way that have drove it down. So on average on 80%, but now our average is 125% because of people are buying so much. So it has been raised with 45% points.
Speaker 1:Wow. That is impressive.
Speaker 2:Course of two years. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay . So I have to ask you this one. Is there a limit to how many people you can service in your gym? What's, what's the top end of this? When does it start to break down? Or when are there too many or ever?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I'd say at 300 people because I thought that, but obviously I was wrong. So no , I don't think there's a limit <laugh> . Okay.
Speaker 1:'cause it's crazy. There are a lot, it's so rare to see gigantic gyms. And we know from the data, we published this in our state of the industry guide, there aren't a ton of gyms that are running exactly what you're doing. Big, big membership counts always require these incredible systems. And I talked to a , a gym owner in Chile about this. He's, I think a thousand members. And he talked , he has to have systems and staff and so forth. So it's , it's , I mean, you are obviously a CEO or you're putting together a team. You are not just sitting there coaching squads. Like do you coach any classes at all in the gym now?
Speaker 2:I have one class per week. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And then I think I have , uh, six hours of pt, and that's a little bit too many , uh, to be honest. Mm-Hmm . Um , but I had to take on some clients because I couldn't say no. They were very interesting people. Sure, sure. I wanted them. So my ego , you know, yeah . <laugh> . Uh , but I'd like to coach between one to three hours per week at the , at the maximum. So,
Speaker 1:Because I don't know me , oh , sorry, go ahead. Yeah,
Speaker 2:I have to stand it at some point, you know, help them or things will happen, but , um, I need to spend my time on other stuff. Uh, I figured out over the time,
Speaker 1:So like maybe, I don't know , are you spending maybe 15, 20% of your time coaching and 80% of your time being the CEO ?
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. And nearly maybe even 90%. Yes. Okay. So
Speaker 1:That's good. Let me ask you this. So gym owners out, there's, there's so many of them will say, I wanna have 400 clients, I wanna have 500 clients. What would you tell them? Would you, would you say that's a great idea? Or what would you, what advice would you give 'em to get them moving in the right direction the right way? Because a lot of people will just say, I want 500 clients. I'm gonna fill my gym and I'm not gonna focus on retention or goal reviews or any of the structures. How should they approach a large number?
Speaker 2:They should focus on retention. Mm-Hmm . And one of the best ways is to build staff as soon as possible. Uh , especially when I , uh, when talking about the CSM role, because it is the fastest p itself back roll I could , uh, ever imagine , uh, in the gym. And when I figured out how easy , uh, of course it's not easy, but you know how fast we got 200 goal reviews . It took, like when I figured out how it only took my , uh, took me three months, you know, if, if I can do other people can too . So it is so fast to fill up a schedule. The CSM will have stuff to do, do not worry about do I even have enough? Yes, you have <laugh> .
Speaker 1:And remember listeners, Lou Ru mentioned earlier, he gave his CSM targets and said, I want you to add this many goal reviews each month. And actually tracking the metrics and saying, is this successful? Are we moving in the right direction? What happens? And I'll give you another couple of stats, guys. Uh, I believe the numbers are 30% of clients who do goal reviews will upgrade their service packages by about 30%. Meaning that you're gonna get retention, but they're also gonna buy more stuff. Have you seen that Roon ? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely . There you go. Yeah . And ever since 30% seems , uh, fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's just a general one. It's gonna vary a little bit between gyms, but you're going to get retention, longer length of engagement from these goal recessions . And then some people are going to say, oh, I can book PT sessions to lose weight faster. I'm gonna do that. And they start spending more ruins . Case this is like a huge deal because that PT session is $130 . Right. So your revenue, it's , yeah . Yeah. So anytime you talk to a client or your client or your CSM talks to a client and they upgrade into a PT thing, your average revenue just goes p
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's , it , it's both a short-term play to , uh, at the CSM because of the how fast the , the role makes sense. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . But it's also long , long-term play when you work on retention and when you have a gym where you actually care about people because the , the selling part becomes easier and easier. We have seen with at least 20 clients over the course of the last two years, when , you know, when you talk to them , talk to them and ask, what do you want , uh, uh, to accomplish? And then we make a plan, but they end up saying, but I wanna do it myself because it seems pretty expensive, and that's totally fine, then do this. And then when you talk to people every quarter, and they have to come back to you all times in a row and say, I didn't do it this time. I didn't do it this , this time. Well, one year after you can actually look them in the eye and say, okay, I care so much that you are not going to leave this room before you sign some PT with me, because obviously you're not going to do it alone. And that's just the easy sell you can ever do.
Speaker 1:Wow. But you have to have that relationship and you have to know this stuff. So you , those goal reviews and those check-ins are essential.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And it is a part of having a little private gym. Wow.
Speaker 1:I , you know, I could ask you questions for an hour, but I don't wanna overwhelm listeners. So what I'm gonna do is gonna wrap this up, and I'm gonna give 'em a couple things to think about based on what you've said. You've mentioned as a gym with a huge client count that's growing. The most important thing is retention. Yes . So listeners, if you take nothing from this today, refocus on retaining your clients, the best way to do that is gonna be to talk to them One-on-one regularly every month, every 90 days, as much as you can. If you find that overwhelming, what ruins done is hired a client success manager and put target metrics in place. Do this many check-ins this way. And when you bring new clients in, use this prescriptive model, I'll put a link to the show notes to the exact definition of how this works. So you can look at it, meet with clients, ask 'em about their goals, tell them the best prescription. You may have to adjust that prescription based on price, but you might not. From there , meet with them regularly. Are you accomplishing the goals that you set earlier? If no, buy this, change this, do this. If yes, let's go further faster. Does that reflect your implementation of the prescriptive model?
Speaker 2:It does. Yes, it does. Mm-Hmm , <affirmative> . Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And again, you need systems because if you have Yes . That many clients in a role , uh, you have to remember what we talked about last time to help them measure ,
Speaker 1:Especially as it grows. So as, I mean, have you Yes . Have you, as you've grown, have you noticed that your systems maybe break a little bit as you hit certain numbers and you have to fix things? Or have they been just airtight the whole way?
Speaker 2:No, we have , uh, made mistakes a lot of times. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So , you know , we build a system that is, okay, this is airtight. Yeah. We'll , only up to 30 new system up to 60. Okay. New system. So every time we , uh, Neil , uh, we add more people, we had to find something new. But , uh, right now we are doing quite well. So , um, the , the plan now is to build , uh, I didn't actually think that we hit 200, but , uh, again, last month were crazy. So I have to look for another CSM now because the plan was to hit just below 200 and then add another one. So now I'm a little , uh, behind on that one <laugh> , because things went too fast. So she's going to need a partner now.
Speaker 1:Okay. And I've heard this from other gym owners that the retention and this whole process is that important. It may require a couple of people, but the cool part, and you've said it and other people have said it, this is not an expense, it's actually an investment because you're seeing the numbers move as a result of this investment in staffing. You've seen that and tracked it , right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. And, and not only for the gym, also for the coaches who is , uh, making this for a living. Um, again, if you put the , the best person on the biggest opportunities, what we, we've seen is some of the, the coaches who really love coaching, when they have a client for like three months or so, when they ask them if they'd like to continue, some of them will say, no, thanks, I'm done for now. But if we are , like, I don't believe that there has to be something wrong if you , if my CSM just contact them and in a very honest way, ask them, are you sure? Don't want this? 50% of the time they want to , uh, keep on going anyway. So the CSM is also holding a hand on all , all of my full-time coaches.
Speaker 1:Oh man, Ru I think you get the award already in 2024 of having the most metrics on command at the drop of a hat from any Jim on interview . Great . Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2:Of course,
Speaker 1:Listeners, focus on your retention systems. There's a ton of great info in here, but I'm just gonna leave you with that. Focus on retention systems. If you do that, your client count will go up. Your average revenue per member will go up. Length of engagement will go up. Everything will change if you keep more members longer and talk to 'em more often. Roone , thank you so much for being here today. This was a great episode packed with data. I can't thank you enough for it. Happy to be here. This is Run a Profitable Gym . I'm your host, Mike Kin , and if you want to talk about more things and find out more stuff from the gym world, head to gym owners united.com. That's the place where you can continue this conversation. Get free guides from Chris Cooper and get advice from True Brain Mentors gym owners united.com. Thank you so much .