The Real Estate Syndication Show

WS1942 Scaling Your Real Estate Company | Pasha Esfandiary

February 14, 2024 Whitney Sewell Episode 1942
The Real Estate Syndication Show
WS1942 Scaling Your Real Estate Company | Pasha Esfandiary
Show Notes Transcript

In the latest Real Estate Syndication Show episode, we welcomed Pasha Esfandiary, founder of Evoke Capital, to discuss his journey from professional poker to real estate mogul. Esfandiary's team has grown their portfolio to 1,850 units, mainly in the last 24 months, emphasizing a people-first strategy.

Key Takeaways:

  • Poker to Real Estate: Esfandiary transitioned from poker to real estate, starting with flipping a mobile home. He shared insights from the learning curve he experienced.
  • Rapid Expansion: He outlined how Evoke Capital achieved swift growth and the challenges of scaling. The focus was on making strategic decisions and long-term planning.
  • Company Culture: The importance of building a robust company culture and infrastructure for sustainable growth was highlighted.
  • Capital Raising: Esfandiary discussed raising capital through referrals and a strong network, leading to the success of their $17 million fund.
  • Market Insights: He shared perspectives on mobile home park investments and seizing opportunities in current market trends.
  • Investor Advice: Esfandiary emphasized understanding investment goals and aligning with operators' strategies.
  • Success Metrics: He measures success by happiness, gratitude, and pursuing long-term visions.
  • Mentorship: Esfandiary finds mentoring more rewarding than monetary gains, helping others achieve their goals.

Esfandiary story underlines the power of goal setting, embracing change, and mentorship in real estate. His approach to building a strong foundation for Evoke Capital and prioritizing culture and infrastructure offers valuable lessons for entrepreneurs. His commitment to health, family, and giving back through mentorship sets him apart as an industry leader.

Contact Pasha Esfandiary at or via LinkedIn for more insights into real estate investment.


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Pasha Esfandiary: And so then I took that knowledge, went back to Vegas and essentially took my poker bankroll and bought my first property. And that alone took a lot of underwriting because I was so conservative until I finally got my actually, my first property that I flipped was a mobile home in a mobile home park. And I made all the mistakes that you could make. And I made $3,000 net pre-tax. And then I got the bug. And I just started, my mind, the way it works, it's always how do we scale? How do we scale efficiently?

Whitney Sewell: This is your daily real estate syndication show. I'm your host, Whitney Sewell. Today, our guest is Pasha Esfandri. He is the founder of Evote Capital in a people first philosophy. They have 1850 units right now, and they did the majority of that within 24 months. They have grown very fast. We're going to dive into that today and talk about how he has scaled so quickly. Also, some of the problems that come with scaling fast. You're going to hear me share some of our struggles with that as well, but also some hard decisions that that we and it sounds like he also has made to improve the business, right, as opposed to continuing to scale that fast and the importance of those things and thinking long term. So, man, he just lays out a number of things in ways that that he has grown personally, but also the business has grown. You're going to learn a lot from Pasha today. Well, welcome to the show. And first and foremost, congratulations on the twins.

Pasha Esfandiary: Thank you so much. Yeah. They're they're 12 weeks yesterday.

Whitney Sewell: Phew. That's exciting. But man, that's a it's a busy house.

Pasha Esfandiary: It's a very busy house for sure.

Whitney Sewell: Well, well honored to have you on the show. And you know, as a successful entrepreneur and, and with twins in the home, I mean, you, you have a lot going on and you've had a lot happening and we're going to jump into man, some, uh, very fast growth that you've experienced and some pros and cons and things around that, that, you know, I've already discussed, uh, briefly, but, uh, you know, tell us a little bit more about your background and getting into the asset class and business that you're in now and let's jump in.

Pasha Esfandiary: Sure. You know, my, my kind of journey really started the non traditional route. I didn't go to college. And when I was about 19 years old, my brother at the time, also college dropout, started playing poker and won a really big tournament in 2004, right around that range. And I said, well, this is cool. Like, let me just start playing some poker because he just did so well. And I picked it up really quickly and I started doing really well. So I ended up playing professionally from about 21 to 26, 27 years old. And then I moved to Las Vegas to really give it a shot. I was doing it in Houston, Texas, and it was great. I was traveling the world. I mean, I was making killer money as a young kid. When I went to Vegas, I really quickly realized that this lifestyle really wasn't for me. I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy the late nights and having to essentially trick myself into being mad at everyone at the table. I love everybody once you get to know me. And so I always knew that real estate was my end game. And so I got fortunate enough that I had some, a very successful mentor who had built a really big company. And, um, I said, Hey, can I just intern for you for as long as I need to, to learn how to do residential flipping? He said, yeah, sure. No problem. So I actually moved to LA for three months and I just interned for him. And I learned everything that I could about buying home site unseen from the auctions. And so then I took that knowledge, went back to Vegas and essentially took my poker bankroll and bought my first property. Um, And that alone took a lot of underwriting because I was so conservative until I finally got my actually, my first property that I flipped was a mobile home in a mobile home park. And I made all the mistakes that you could make and I made $3,000 net pre-tax. And then I got the bug. And I just started, my mind, the way it works, it's always how do we scale? How do we scale efficiently? So I ended up doing about 50 total, including the JV deals in there in the next few years, moved to Los Angeles, flipped one home. I said, this isn't scalable. And I, in that area, bought a lot of land that was on a path of progression. And I started developing on that land for about five to six years. went into multifamily because I knew I wanted to have a family soon, I wanted passive income really quickly saw the cap rates were compressed. And now finally, at the end of this story, I got into mobile home parks, and I just went deep into mobile home parks. And this is all I invest in all I think about now until I'm obsessed with it.

Whitney Sewell: Awesome. Well, I'm, I'm impressed by your desire to, to put family first, right? Even being a professional in an industry that doesn't happen easily. Right. And so no doubt, tons of time invested there. Uh, you know, I mean, you have a, uh, probably a, you know, a college tuition in poker, right? I mean, you spent a lot, I mean, uh, the time, you know, Yeah, that you spent there doing that and getting to that level. But man, I just hats off to you for making that decision to say, hey, you know what, this is what's most important. And I don't see a lifestyle here long term or that this is what is best. Yeah, because that's, unfortunately, that's not what most will do. Right. So hats off to you for just doing that and making that decision. But Let's jump into your quick success in the mobile home park industry and asset class. You're at 1,850 units now. I think I read 1,400 and some were within 24 months. And so, you know, let's, let's talk about that a little bit. You said you always think about scale, right? And as entrepreneurs, I think we're often, you know, like thinking about how to, how to go bigger, faster. Right. And, and there's problems with that, that often come. And I want us to get into some of that because we've experienced that as well. Um, and, but, you know, getting the first mobile home park and then, you know, where were you at then? What were some of the key things that help you to scale quickly at that time?

Pasha Esfandiary: Sure. Yeah. So you know, I have the it was I really have two incredible friends now partners who really guide me from my first mobile home park, we bought it together. And it started performing better than my apartment complexes. And I just said, wow, like, you know, there was so much stigma on this, I, you know, I did my numbers, I did my research, but I still don't know enough about this industry. And so, and they have, you know, a breadth of, you know, 20 years experience in mobile home parks, just specifically. So we did our first deal together. And I realized, oh, my gosh, there's a really big opportunity here. And so we just kept buying our own properties with our own money. And then, you know, when the money ran dry, You know, I look at my life. I try to look at my life with really at the end insight and work myself backwards and I said I do know that for a fact in 10 years from now, if I don't seize this opportunity in mobile home parks. I'm going to regret it." Evo Capital never meant to be a business. We syndicated one deal. It was us three, and then I had my EA helping me out. It was just us four grinding, finding deals, and we did our first syndication. Then right quickly, right after that, we did another syndication. Then we found a two-pack deal. in Alabama that we just said, well, we have to get these. And then it just was like, well, we're finding all these deals. Our investors would probably rather be in a fund and we just created a fund. And then we created out a $15 million fund and closed it out at 17 million and being able to really seize on this opportunity. Now, that's awesome. I mean, reflecting back, we kind of knocked it out of the park with that. Just because also at the same time, what I'm really proud of is that we are really kind of honed in on one certain product in mobile homes communities. We don't do a lot of infill. We're just more conservative in nature. We do really high cash flow plays. So we were able to close out that funding and close all these deals. Now, there's always a flip side to everything. When you scale really quickly, the people that you have are now, we're throwing them on this problem and we're throwing them on this problem, we need this done. And then at some point when you realize like, wow, we have actually 20 full-time employees now, and a lot of people feel lost. You know, how do we adjust? Now it's a real company. Now there's other factors you have to consider other than just per property, culture, systems, future growth. key leadership? How does it all work? Accountability? So that's the really cool thing about entrepreneurship is that, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna slap you in the face for what you need. And then how do you proactively solve it so that it never happens again? That's the key to entrepreneurship. So yeah, it's been a fun journey, for sure.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, I can relate so much to, you know, so many things you just mentioned. And it's like taking off and, you know, my well, my business partner, I were doing everything right. And then, yeah, in a very short period of time, all of a sudden, we have hundreds of units, then over 1000. And, you know, it's like, then we're hiring people. And then we look back and think, Okay, wait a minute, we actually have to become a business. Right. Right. You know, I feel like it's a never ending improvement process. Right. I feel like, you know, for all those things you mentioned, culture, accountability, et cetera. But, you know, you mentioned, too, in there and I want to get into some of those things, but you mentioned You had a $15 million fund, you closed it out at 17. I mean, that's a major success. Congratulations. Thank you so much. How did you start this fund, raise that much capital? I know that's what a lot of listeners are thinking. Oh, wait a minute. How do you raise that much capital in this fund? Where did that come from?

Pasha Esfandiary: What were some keys there? I'm very fortunate and blessed to have an amazing network. But what I will say is this, is that coming up in poker, a lot of people really connected with me and there's a lot of great people in poker. As I was coming up in real estate, I was just self-funding all of my own deals. Along the years, everyone was asking, hey, do you think I can get in on your deals? I just said one day, yes, not now though. It was funny because last night, my partner was making fun of me. He's like, do you remember the first deal that you were super nervous and really scared to raise up, you know, $700,000. And I said, Yeah, that's, you know, that's like a back then when you've never raised before, who the hell is going to trust me? And who the hell is going to say yes, and give me their money. And it was a really interesting progression. And so one of the the key fortunate things is that I built a lot of great friends, I will say that I had that out the gate, I have a really strong network that I've cultivated for, for many, many, many years. Now, I will tell you the key to the success of raising that fund because I couldn't rely only on my network. I, you know, we're incredibly lucky that we get a ton of referrals. And I really, really believe this. And I really believe that how you stand, how you show up is how people are going to perceive you. So like, you know, being in poker, I think about human nature all the time. It's human nature to judge your first interaction within the first 15 seconds. It's human nature to perceive how somebody is through how they present everything. And so one thing that we really specialize in is that we give really great quarterly detailed breakdowns of every single property. I've been an investor in so many deals where there was lack of communication. They just told me like, hey, this is happening. And I said, well, what else is going on? or the quarterly distributions weren't on time, or I couldn't get somebody on the phone, and it really irritated me. So I sought out to build this company that way. And those little things, I promise you, go a really long way. Because people feel taken care of, they're going to refer you to somebody else. And when it came to the end of the fund, and we had to close it out with a close to a $7 million raise, which was the biggest for me at the time, I really just asked my network and my previous investors, hey, would you know anybody else who would want to invest? And we got a bunch of referrals that way. And that's how we've grown really, by just doing right by the investors. I'm sorry, there's no key element that I could tell you that's like, oh my gosh, it's just doing the little things.

Whitney Sewell: I love how you put an importance on how you show up, right? It's so true. And all those things that you do with your investors just on a consistent basis, right? We think, ah, you know, it doesn't really matter if I respond today to that investor or next week or what. Well, it actually does. It does matter, right? It's, it's a consistency of the, of responding and giving detail and answering those fears or questions, right? Right. You know, when they have them. Uh, and so I love that answer. Uh, but also, you know, when you lean on your, you know, you'd built a great network almost before getting into this space. Right. But even that was purposeful. Right. Like you, you cultivate, you even said, you know, you cultivated it for many years. Um, and so that was, um, yeah, that was on purpose. Right. Uh, and, uh, and. Any just quick techniques there that helped you to build those relationships over the years, and then we'll move on.

Pasha Esfandiary: Yes. I made a Facebook post yesterday about something I was talking about in another podcast is that, you know, I don't think enough people take an evaluation of their friend groups purposefully, right? I rank my friends, and I'll get to the point after this. I rank my friends because when you rank your friends, and even though it sounds barbaric to rank your friends, really what happens when you do that is that you start to understand the qualities that you look for. You start to understand what inspires you, what you're trying to become because you are the sum total of your five friends, right? It's just human nature to mimic the people closest to you. You know, it takes a lot of effort to not do that. It just happens. And so really quickly on, early in my career, I was able to say, hey, you know, what is that? And I started to find the people that and friends that inspired me. And for me, my number one quality is I just want them to have a big goal. I don't care what their goal is, like they could be the best professional couch surfer in the world, you know, and just be like the best bum in the world. But I want them to have goals. And so I surrounded myself with a lot of people who have a lot of goals. And that's what inspired me. That's what kind of fueled our friendships. And I also knew what the end game was for me always, and where I wanted to go. So I always talked to people as if I knew that that was going to happen 10 years from now, and it did. I wouldn't say everyone's like this or should do this, but I essentially map out my whole life all the time and I readjust and I reevaluate it. So when I have conversations with people, I say, yeah, look, I will get you an investment, but give me a few years. And I just kept saying that. So cultivate it now, talk to people now already for what your future goals are.

Whitney Sewell: Love that. I just finished a book called focal point by Brian Tracy. And, uh, and you just pretty much summarize it in the last minute there. Oh, amazing. I'm going to go read that book. Yeah. A number of things he mentioned, you know, just in that little book was, uh, you know, what you just said. I mean, just, you know, seeing the future, right. Focusing 10 years from now versus focusing on the past. Right. And that's the difference in ultimately what successful people focus on versus unsuccessful. Right. Right. And even goal setting, having those goals and watching the people that you're surrounding yourself with, the environment you surround yourself with as well, you know, and not just the people, but it's like, what are you seeing every day? And I think I did a post just this week as well on, on that, like the environment, you know, but it's not just the people, but it's like, uh, the click bait and the doom and gloom stuff and how that affects your mind. And, you know, it's like, what are you taking in? So I love that, that, you know, your focus on that as well. Um, you know, I want to get to, you know, you grew to, uh, you know, 20 employees plus, you know, whatever grew quickly. Right. And there's challenges there. Maybe highlight a challenge or two. And let's talk through a couple of those.

Pasha Esfandiary: I would say the thing that hurt, hurt me the most as a leader was that when I got, I took a, um, analysis of how our employees are doing. And the feedback was not where I wanted it to be. I'll tell you right now, like I love my people and I love just I just love people. And so when I found out that my employees were having a really hard time, that they felt lost, that they felt like their position was changing all the time because we were growing so quickly, we kept throwing things at them. And when I found out they were being way overworked, I don't know that, right? Because I'm just so focused on big picture. What are our metrics? Are we hitting our numbers? And so, but I was really fortunate enough to at least have cultivated a culture where people could give me feedback and like as the owner, right? And that really helped shape like, oh, oh, crap. OK, guys, we need to slow down. Let's focus on infrastructure right now, because even though we'll buy less properties right now, what I will promise you is that we need to focus on the infrastructure so that way you can slingshot into the future. Let's build our company so that it lasts. for as long as we needed to, instead of let's just, let's just not be reactive. So that was the hardest thing, man, was when I kept getting that same feedback, because then I would go ask other employees, and they kept saying it is like a gut punch every single time. So you know, we had to take a step back, create systems, and we're actually still in the process of creating all the systems. implementing the tech stack and all of that to assure longevity of this, of this company.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah. No, I love that focus. Yeah. I love the, and the willingness to say no to maybe doing deals. Right. But to focus on what's most important and building that infrastructure. That's so important because I feel like we're in that same spot in a bunch of ways, you know, personally. And so, you know, we grew very fast and, and, and then, uh, you know, even recently, uh, you know, we've said, or, you know, I would say over the last 12 months, there haven't been much, many deals, right. Uh, but you know, we have said no at times, not because we didn't like the deal even, but because we felt like, Hey, we're, uh, we've been on a major focus on also building that infrastructure and processes, just documenting those things really well and improving all those things. And we felt like, hey, this is going to be a major distraction from something that's happening that's really good and necessary. And so while the team was disappointed that we said no to a deal, you know what, my business partner and I said, you know what, we know this is what is best. 100%. Right. And so we know this is what is best long term. And so I can completely feel you there. I mean, it's disappointing in the moment. And I can see it in the team's face, right, especially in a time where we haven't done that many deals. But, you know, you talked about the tech stack, give us some some tech ideas, some ways that you all are things you are using to help with this process, and maybe even some things that you've learned on how to document the processes and do a good job at that.

Pasha Esfandiary: Sure. I want to first talk about my philosophy on time. A dear friend of mine, Bill Perkins, wrote a book called Die With Zero. This guy has been giving me wisdom and calling me out for 13 years, right? And so, you know, the way I view time is how do we put resources to advance time for us, right? So, and the reason why I'm saying this is that what we've done is we've actually hired a professional consultant firm to come into our company, sit inside of our company for months, and build out and recommend everything that we need to do. So using Coda is one of the systems that we use. And then they use some other programs that track all of our from a rent manager so that I can get all my metrics and I forgot the name of that. But Coda being the main one where it's almost like a centralized Wikipedia and also accountability software that at one point we could just log in and I can see how every property is doing. single metric is getting hit on every single department. It's awesome. The reason why I talked about Bill Perkins with that is that we personally have started the EOS traction route and we saw that it takes about 18 months to accomplish. My personal philosophy on it is that I took 95 percent of everything that EOS was training and teaching us. I also did know that EOS puts out so much information. I went and read every single piece of literature, every single article. I listened to every single video that I could on EOS and I picked up on all the things. I said, okay, this is what we want to implement. This is what we want to do it. So now I streamlined that process quicker by at least, you know, over a year with this consultant. Now it was more expensive. but I'll get more results in the future. And so that's what I did. And I only want to explain that because I do believe, and we've talked about this a few times now already on this podcast, is that if you know your goal 10 years from now, and you know where you're going, you can make better decisions now. Spending that kind of money on a consultant firm is hard in the moment. But then when you know in 10 years that you've scaled, it makes an easy decision. So yeah.

Whitney Sewell: Love that. If you know where you're going, it's easier to make decisions today.

Pasha Esfandiary: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. If anyone ever comes to you and says, I don't know what to do about, let's say, you know, an easy example is should I take this job or should I take this other job? It's just very clear. You don't know where you want to be in 10 years from now. And I always ask when someone comes to me with that, I said, well, what's your 10 year vision? Get clear on that. And this answer will become really clear to you.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah. Yeah. Even going back to your, uh, to the book, die with zero. I've, I've talked about it on the show a few times. I've read it. It's been a little bit, but, but I, you know, recent or quickly after reading that I scheduled a trip with my mother, take my mother, my family out to this. out to the beach or something, you know, and, and I just, cause it really hit me. I'm like, you know, uh, it's not just, uh, you know, how much time I have, but it's the ones you love as well. Right. And, and their quality of life, uh, you know, so it's not the, you know, we all have the same amount of time, but obviously, you know, investing in the certain, in certain areas gives you more value on time. Uh, and that was a big thing that came from that book, uh, was, you know, it's a, you know, what I told my, my wife is, you know, our parents aren't going to be in, great health forever.

Pasha Esfandiary: And while they can enjoy it, we should we should do something, you know, may may stack on top of that real quick, because now you got me all fired up on it. It's you know, I take my father on an annual trip, father son trip every single year, my dad is a young 81 year old. And so what really taught me from die with zero is how do you quantify time And so when you really evaluate my, well, at least let me talk about my own personal case. When I evaluate my father's time of being able to travel easily as an 81 year old, I predict, just because he has a really young spirit, maybe five more times I can take him on a father son trip. before traveling across the world isn't like feasible, or it hurts too much, right? You see it happening. So it's really important for that. And, and making memories like I'm, you know, very, I'm a huge, huge 49ers fan, just massive. And so is my father. And so I'm taking him to the Super Bowl. Because I want to create memories. Again, this is the Daiwa Zero and Bill Perkins himself has really changed my my whole outlook on life and time and experiences. And so to really focus on that entrepreneur, you can get caught up in work all the time. So it's really, yeah, again, you just have to evaluate your life and what you want.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, no doubt. I could do a whole show just on that, probably a few times. But I want to jump back to just the challenging position you're in with scaling, right? You talked about the team, because I can relate to this too. As you grow, you're throwing more things at your best people, right? They're still there. They care about you. They're working hard. And, you know, and you're thinking, well, goodness, they're doing so good here. Let's give them this. Let's give them that. And, you know, what were some of the steps, you know, tactfully that you went through next to lay out, you know, and confirm what these people are doing and then be able to track it and ensure they're not overworked.

Pasha Esfandiary: Yeah. I mean, the first thing was first, I set up a call with every single employee and I went through and I said, I need you. And I set up the context of the call. I need you to give me just gut wrenching feedback. What's going on? Tell me, because I need you to tell me you're on the front lines so that I could help and fix the issues. And so, you know, we started the EOS route and we really realized that we want to streamline this process and have the experts come in. Right. It also was candidly cheaper than the EOS route. And so, uh, It was the consultant firm that came in. We data dumped on her. She went and interviewed every single one of our employees, every single one of our departments. We gave her all our metrics, our org chart, and she's still in the process of creating more systems for us. So she did it. I wouldn't say that I was the one leading the charge. What I do know is that We had every single employee say, Hey, what is your jobs? How do we boil it down to the most simple ideas, simple five things that you do that are the most important. And then let's create SLPs on that. And so we're going, you know, very methodically. department by department, and creating all of these out, because we do know that in the long run, it'll work out which one was the first one that we need to do, which was property management portion. And then what's the next one's going to be sales. And so it was just very, it's a slow methodical process.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah. So it is a slow process. It is a very slow process. But worthwhile, to say the least. Yeah, if you plan to be in business long at all, it's a must, right?

Pasha Esfandiary: 100% it's optimization for your business.

Whitney Sewell: What about just some, uh, you know, let's, let's change gears just a little bit for time sake here. But, uh, what about, uh, uh, you know, current market trends that you're seeing and, and, you know, where you see opportunities or anything you expect, uh, you know, over the next six, 12 months?

Pasha Esfandiary: I hate predicting, but obviously as interest rates do go down, I do expect to see more opportunities pop up. What we're seeing inside of Evo Capital is when we first started, the market was a little different. We were still buying from a lot of mom and pop sellers. What we're finding in this in-between time where sellers don't really want to sell, some of them do, but most In most cases, they know that interest rates are probably going to go down and so that they're willing to be patient. So there is some properties here and there. In the mobile home park space, we're seeing other operators who tried to get into the mobile home park space. now get to this point because let's back up a little bit. Cap rates were compressing so much in apartment complexes in that 2019, 2018, up into 2020. So a lot of operators went from apartment complexes to mobile home parks only to realize it's a more difficult game, it's a more nuanced game. So our opportunity that we're excited about right now is that we're seeing a lot of operators come back to the table with these deals that they bought. a few years ago, almost around the same price where they bought it because they just want to get out of the deal. And so we're really excited about those because we're seeing a lot of equity that we can build and a lot of equity they're leaving on the table because they don't have the systems and they don't have the experience. And for with the prediction, I do predict we'll start seeing more flow in Q3 and Q4, but you know, we're underwriting every day. We're just, there's just nothing that's really making sense. It's just a slow period for anyone who's conservative right now.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah. Yeah. No, I can, or we can relate to that for sure. What's your best source for meeting new investors right now?

Pasha Esfandiary: Right now, it's been referrals. It's been referrals. I just, just started posting stuff online. And I'll see how that goes. But it's always been referrals. And then, you know, one thing I can tell if someone wants to start raising capital, and start understanding the game, go join mastermind groups, because there's a first of all, it's a plethora of information, people are always willing to help you out. And you can create really genuine connections inside of these groups. So I, you know, I see within the mastermind groups, people are always doing deals and doing JV deals with other people and other like minded people. So masterminds are such a wonderful way to meet other people that are like minded.

Whitney Sewell: Is there a mastermind or so that you would recommend?

Pasha Esfandiary: Yeah, there's two that I'm really proud to be in. It's Lifestyle Investors with Justin Donald. And then the second one is GoBundance, which is just an incredible organization. And I've been a member for both for a while.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah. What's your best advice for passive investors right now?

Pasha Esfandiary: Right now, I mean, anytime anyone asks me this question, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Know your goal before you start investing. There are certain investors who are looking for an equity multiple in a few years. There are some investors who are looking for pure cash flow plays. There are some investors who just look for depreciation. Get to know your goals. And secondly, you know, really be aware of operators that you're investing with. Just make sure that your guys' incentives are aligned with each other. And that's I'll leave it at that. But, you know, yeah, I'm not gonna get into it. But yeah. Just make sure that the incentives are aligned with you. And one suggestion I will make is ask your operator this simple question, is how much money are you putting net of fees into the deal with you? I think that's important because you want an operator who's willing to put their money where their mouth is and is willing to put net of their fees, their own money out of their pocket to make the deal work and there's more skin in the game.

Whitney Sewell: What's the most important metrics that you track could be personally or professionally?

Pasha Esfandiary: The first metric, I'll say in in in Evo capital, when we're underwriting a deal, the number one metric we look for is in year five, can we return 100% of investor capital back with a refi event? If the answer is no, we don't buy the deal. That is the most important metric for us. And then the second most important metric for us is can we hit at least close to double digit cash flows in year two? So those are the two metrics that we look for there. For me, personally, It's how happy am I and how grateful I am. What's my grateful meter? I wake up every single day, I journal every single morning, and I have a grateful exercise. And sometimes you forget how lucky we are until you experience maybe a week without electricity and you realize, wow, we really take this for granted, or hot water. So it's the little things in life that I become very grateful for. And so that's how I look at my life. And that's what I attract the most of my life.

Whitney Sewell: And maybe this is related to that probably is, but just some habits that you're disciplined about.

Pasha Esfandiary: Sure. My health and my morning routine. I'm very strict on my morning routine because it's my time. Now, obviously, having twins, they, you know, they get one morning routine.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, right.

Pasha Esfandiary: So I wake up really early. I wake up about 5am. I go straight into the cold plunge. I make a coffee. And then I don't allow myself to have the coffee until I cold plunge as a reward system. I go do the cold plunge for two minutes at 39 degrees, come back, drink the coffee, drink my like electrolyte drink, journal. And then typically around then I'll be able to feed one or both of the babies because I like that morning time with them. And then I have a trainer that comes to the house. I'll train and then I come to the office and I have a meal prep and protein shakes and all that. And then I'm pretty religious about nine o'clock, excuse me, my start my bedtime routine. It really helps start off my, my next day and I get really good sleep. And I track all of it. I have to walk all that. Yeah.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah. How do you track your sleep?

Pasha Esfandiary: the whoop. I've never heard of that one. Yeah, it's you know, I had the aura ring. And I just went over to the whoop and the whoop has way better data. It really tracks better, in my opinion than the aura ring. So yeah, it's just transferred to the whoop. Interesting. I saw her but whatever.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, I love stuff like that. And I'm also very strict about morning routine and being up at five. I'm not doing the cold plunge though. That may be a challenge.

Pasha Esfandiary: You get used to it and you feel so invigorated. It's also really, really great for longevity. So that's why I do it.

Whitney Sewell: Number one thing that's contributed to your success.

Pasha Esfandiary: Always stepping into my fear and I know that sounds so damn cliche to say, but it's true. Anytime I have been afraid to do something, I had a mentor tell me when I did my emotional intelligence courses, anytime that fear pops up, it's not fear. Um, it's a, it's an invitation to step into that. And so now anytime that something comes to my way, just like that one time was like, Oh, do you want to raise that first raise? I was scared. I was like, but I got to do it. I got to try. Um, and so that's that. And I will say, um, being able to really work from the end back because I make decisions that's going to benefit me later on. And that delay gratification is what got me where I am today. Right. So. How do you like to give back? It's funny, I just had this conversation with a few of my friends yesterday. And in years previous, I used to give a lot of money to charities, pretty sizable donation amounts. And as of last year, I told you know, my friends, like I don't want to do this anymore. It feels cheap at this point. And so now it's mentoring and it's mentoring. I mentor about four people that are really close to me. I have calls with them. I set up their goals. What are their life goals? And we just that that to me is is the absolute best. I enjoy it so much. And because I had to get so much help coming, getting to where I'm at. And that's what I love about real estate. There's always going to be somebody that's willing to lend an arm and bring the next person up.

Whitney Sewell: Love that. Well, I'm grateful to have met you, to had you on the show. Thank you. I feel like, you know, I can relate to you in so many ways as far as the fast growth and the challenges in the business and the, you know, even the documenting the processes, you know, going through that process now and, And really seeing a, I think a bigger picture and, and looking towards that, you know, delayed gratification, just like you're talking about. So, you know, that where the team's disappointed, but I can see this as the right thing, right. For us to do. And so I can relate to you in so many ways and just appreciate your, you know, the goal setting and the mindset and the morning routine and all these things and putting the family first. You know, I can relate to you in so many ways there. So grateful for your time and pointing those things out and teaching us today how you've got where you're at and tell the listeners how they can get in touch with you and learn more about you.

Pasha Esfandiary: Sure. I mean, you can just email me at Pasha at or you can go to our website. And then, you know, LinkedIn Pasha's Fandiari. I'll respond if you just message me.

Whitney Sewell: Thank you for being with us again today. I hope that you have learned a lot from the show. Don't forget to like and subscribe. I hope you're telling your friends about the Real Estate Syndication Show and how they can also build wealth in real estate. You can also go to and start investing today.