WS1682 How to Scale your Real Estate Investments From Single-Family Homes to Multi-Family Syndications | Dan Rowley

Discover expert insights on real estate investing strategies and maximizing returns in this exclusive interview with Dan Rowley. From single-family homes to multifamily syndications, Dan shares his journey as a CFO and offers valuable tips for scaling your real estate investments. Explore the key principles and techniques to achieve success in the competitive real estate market, and gain practical knowledge from an experienced industry professional. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from Dan Rowley's wealth of expertise and take your real estate investment game to the next level

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Transcript

How to Scale your Real Estate Investments From Single-Family Homes to Multi-Family Syndications |Dan Rowley

Deana Berg: Well, Dan, thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure to recently meet you in person in Salt Lake City, and I'm grateful that you're gonna join us here on our show today. Thanks for being here. 

Dan Rowley: Thanks for having me on the show. I appreciate 

Deana Berg: it. Yeah, look forward to hearing what you have to share with us.

Loved reading your bio. Why don't you give us just kind of a flyover of who you are a summary of your professional career, and then land us down at what you're in the midst of right now, and then we can ask questions along those lines as we proceed in the show. 

Dan Rowley: Sure. Okay. To start with I live in North Carolina, Carrie, with my wife and two kids, age 10 and eight.

We moved here from California two and a half years ago during the pandemic I know a lot of people moved during that time. We were within that group coast to coast. Were 

Deana Berg: you just tired of staying inside and you were like, maybe the east coast we can get outside? What 

Dan Rowley: was There was some of that for the move.

There were some of that, and then the wildfires were a factor, and cutting our power and various, various other challenges there in Northern California. Um, so it just felt like a good time to make a change and I think this is a very good like, family environment that we found here in North Carolina.

So we like it so far. From a professional standpoint I've been in finance and business for about 30 years. Most recently I'm the CFO and general manager. For an advertising network, an online advertising network, and I've been doing that job for quite a while, about 13 years. I began to get involved in real estate investing about a dozen years ago.

We started with acquiring some single fam family condo type rentals. And fortunately we bought in at a good time right after the, mortgage back situation. And real estate really corrected. We got some good deals and so, our first experiences in real estate, inve investing were very positive, right?

There was really good returns. They cash flow from day one, and as we know, you know, real estate can pay you five ways. And we were kind of seeing that, [00:02:00] right? The appreciation, the tax benefits, the cash flow. And so we did that for a number of years. We started to build. A rental portfolio. We were in California and so we, we began to buy a lot of out-of-state rentals because, California doesn't necessarily have the best rental real estate in certain, certain circumstances.

So we started to buy out state. Can 

Deana Berg: I just interject before and say like, tell me a little bit about that. What, how did you decide what state to buy in? You're just buying out of state and this is how you're launching into your real estate investment career. That's kind of a big leap. What did that look like and how did that unfold?

Dan Rowley: Yeah, I think mainly, we were seeing that the returns were constrained in California, especially as the value started to pop back up right when things were covered in the housing market. So you couldn't really buy much. That made a lot of sense that would pencil out to profit. So, and I started to research and look at other markets and , there's a lot of, there's blogs and there's podcasts, et cetera, where you can learn about where there might be promising rentals.

And my, my theory and tactic has mainly been around, looking at data around growth markets, what are the areas that are, that are growing for both, population growth, income growth? Where are people moving to? Um, so I, I look at growing metros look at good median income.

So I like to look at a lot of data before I put any money into place. So, so I've been most focused on the Sunbelt. Obviously those are the, the areas that have picked up a lot of people and there's a lot of growth. Um, so I invested in. Texas, Utah, Idaho one or two others. But again, my approach has been somewhat data-driven, right?

I don't wanna invest in an area that's not growing in population because you might have a demand problem, right? Where you mm-hmm. Where you have vacancies and so forth. So, f for me, the fundamentals seem pretty like intuitive, right. Fi final, a market that's growing where there's a need for housing.

Mm-hmm. I mean, we know that in the, in the country as a whole, there's a. Shortage of housing, those numbers are debatable what they are, but, but in some reasons, right. [00:04:00] Obviously there's more shortage than others, and where there's a, a growing population, there's bound to be a shortage. Right. And so the, you're in a better position as a landlord if you've got high demand in your market, right?

Sure. What 

Deana Berg: are your favorite, um, analysis tools for population growth? 

Dan Rowley: Uh, well, I mean, the pop, the census data's pretty readily available through Google searches or, city data has a lot of good information on, crime and, poverty rates and meeting home prices and all these things.

You can get some of the high level info from Zillow too, in terms of vacancy and, the, the median home income and medium home prices over a period of time. So I used a variety of sources for that. Mm-hmm. 

Deana Berg: Okay, so you, you found your markets, you execute, you pull the trigger. How many markets were you in and how long did that take you?

Dan Rowley: I think over a period of about, uh, from 2012 to 2019, maybe seven years. Mm-hmm. We were in about five markets. And, we'd experienced some good returns and so I'd say some success. Right. In terms of net worth was definitely growing because of the real estate. Mm-hmm. But I think at some point I realized that, when you're buying individually you, you're kind of limited in, in your scale, right?

So there's a number of things you gotta kind of take care of, insurance, property management, relationships, you gotta do your taxes. So when you own all these individually, there's a certain amount of work. It's not entirely passive. Mm-hmm. So I, I started to question scalability, so that's when we realized that maybe there's a better route to take.

Still within real estate right to, to, to be able to scale. And that's when I got interested in, started investing in syndications about maybe 2019 ish. 

Deana Berg: Okay, so how did you find syndications from the single-family home Rental ownership platform across states? By the way, I mean that seems like a significant risk, but you seem to be pretty sheltered in like data-driven proof, [00:06:00] which is a huge as it's a huge benefit when you're taking risks to do, to at least have them measured.

So when you were look thinking about scaling and you're thinking, man, I can only do so much property management. How did you find out about multi-family syndication, passive investment, and then where did you go 

Dan Rowley: from there? Yeah, I think, I can't actually remember the exact point where I learned about the syndications, but I was attending some of the local meetups in San Francisco Bay Area, and I think some of the guests that came in, were, were involved in syndications.

Mm-hmm. And I started to plug into some of the podcasts that are out there, The Joel Fearless podcast, eventually Whitney's podcast. You, there's a bunch of others, right? And then I started to kind of like get into what syndications are and learn the ins and outs of them. And then doing my own independent research, right?

So I can't tell you exactly when I found out about it, but it was, it didn't seem like a much of a departure from what I was doing in terms of real estate investing. It was just kind of a different, different method, right? And so it resonated with me, right, where you can be a passive, you can be a passive partner.

Still brief all the benefits, right. Of you know, some cash flow, some appreciation, some tax benefits. Right. So I liked that. Yeah. I mean, if you 

Deana Berg: were to compare your return on equity side by side with all these individual single-family homes versus scaling with your multi-family investment, how would you say they compare?

Dan Rowley: Well, I would say they're comparable, I think. But a lot of it is course timing, right? When you get into a market and how much it's gone up. And I would say that the last 10 to 12 years has not been. Probably the most realistic period of time to evaluate because it's been kind of a Goldilocks economy, right?

There's been loose money by the Fed, there's been deficit spending by the government. It's been the asset bubble, right? Everything's gone up. So it's possible to have failed in real estate over the last 10 years, but it, it's a lot more difficult than it would've been in some other time periods. Right? But I would say in general, had some really good gains on rental properties that we bought early on.

They doubled the value. Because of [00:08:00] the housing recovery. But I've also had syndication experiences within the last two years. Right. Where if you bought something three years ago, it sold last year, I was seeing a couple deals exit with, doubling my money in two years. That wasn't uncommon in syndications.

Mm-hmm. And there's a bunch of other deals that, that are in various stages, right. That I'm still holding that haven't exited, but they're doing fine. Couple, maybe, with the current interest rates or, they cause distribution so that the experience is all over the map. But, In general, uh, have not lost money, let's say so far, but it could happen.

I'm realist. And that's why I think diversification is important, right? Getting into different markets with different operators and kind of spreading your money so that you know, if something does go wrong. It's, it's just some portion of your, of your, of your portfolio that that's at risk, right?

Deana Berg: So did it feel risky at all for you going from full control, hands-on management with single family into being a totally limited partner and a passive investor? Or was that a delight? 

Dan Rowley: Well, I would say the first time I set out the wire, to fund I was, it was, wasn't quite sure, it was the first time I'd done that.

And you're, you're trusting people, right? You're hoping that they don't want off of the money. But I think that's why the due diligence is important, right? You gotta kind of. See what the track record is. Get talk to references. , make sure that they're operators that are trustworthy.

And there's no perfect process for that. And I think early on, I, my process probably wasn't nearly as thorough as it is now, because I didn't know what I didn't know. But fortunately I got involved early on, I think with some good operators mm-hmm. That had, you know, good ethics, good understanding what they were doing.

They provided good returns and that helped. Solidify for me that this can be a good vehicle for, for investing. Right. So, um, but it was a little bit maybe nervewracking the very first time I sent out a wire. Cuz your, you again, your, your money's gonna be captive and you're not in control anymore. Right, 

Deana Berg: right.

And not everybody who's in the passive investing space has the benefit of being a C F O. So let's talk about what [00:10:00] skills and competencies that you have found to be valuable in real estate investing and. That can be transferrable for folks, let's say, who might not be in your professional background with the level of experience in financial matters as 

Dan Rowley: you have.

Well, I would say that I'm very comfortable, right, diving into numbers and spreadsheets and underwriting, right. Kind of validating projections that these groups are putting out. And I, I've been known to ask a certain number of questions about it. And if I can get ahold of their underwriting rate, then I can kind of pick it apart and do my own sensitivity analysis.

So part of it's the numbers, part of it's, the credibility of the story and the market and what, what their business plan is, right? Mm-hmm. So it's a combination of those things. But I think also the financial analysis piece I'm very comfortable with, but also having owned my own real estate, right?

I knew I wasn't, this wasn't my first time investing in real estate, so I kind of understood the dynamics, you know, the importance of property management. Mm-hmm. Kind of how things worked. Behind the scenes, right? How you, how you manage assets effectively. So I think it was less of a, I guess, stretch to get into, you know, this ver cuz I'd already been involved in real estate of my own, so I kind of understood the fundamentals of it, right?

Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. 

Deana Berg: So when you're looking at, let's say someone sends either underwriting what, give me an example, if you can think of one, where you're a red flag pops up in your mind and you're like, no way. What are the kind of things that give you the most pause? 

Dan Rowley: Well, certainly if the, expected rental increases are, too high, that, that'd be a question mark.

Right? How, how are they, how are they supporting that? Right? You don't wanna be too aggressive in that. Of course, there has been, Very high rent increases in reality for the last few years, but I don't, I don't think people really expect that to continue. That was kind of an anomaly with inflation.

You would expect some, but, so anyway, a rental increase that's too high, right? That's assumed. Or a comps, if you're looking at comps and they're, some of the comps [00:12:00] maybe aren't the same asset type, maybe they're better assets. So, that inflates what they, what they hope to gain in, in rent.

Certainly an exit cap assumption, right, is a key one that I look at. And that has to be kind of defensible, right? I can't give you a certain number what's good or bad, but you know, you, you typically want an exit cap that's expanded from where you're currently at and you know that that's, it's reasonable to think in five years, what's a conservative exit cap? You don't, you don't want anything too aggressive because mm-hmm. That may not be where the market's at when you're ready to sell. Right. So is it gonna be seller's market or a buyer's market? So, exit cap rate, probably one of the biggest ones that can easily swing numbers in one direction.

Right. In terms of projected returns, I mean, there's also vacancy in various other things that you would wanna make sure aggressors, you know, assumptions aren't too aggressive. 

Deana Berg: And since you have a lot of background in market analysis, how closely would you align those numbers with the specific market, let's just say rent increase, for example.

How dependent on the market is that number? Or would you say it should be more across the board? 

Dan Rowley: I think there's a component of that that's that's market driven for sure. And there's a component that's, you know, the business plan if you're significantly adding value, right? And improving units. You're, you're gonna see a rent bump, right?

So it's a matter of buying into what they're planning to do and, but also looking at the median incomes of the area, right? If you, if you're planning to raise rent 20%, but the median income in that area from the demographics wouldn't necessarily support that. Cuz again, you gotta look at the income to rent ratio that people can afford, then, then that would be a red flag too, right?

So you gotta look at what are people are gonna be able to afford within that submarket, right? Mm-hmm. 

Deana Berg: Yeah. Okay, good. You mentioned before your fundamental belief in diversification and whether it's with operators, whether it's asset class. Can you talk to us a little bit about your general investing [00:14:00] philosophy as you've grown, you've entered into single family, you've moved into multi-family.

Talk to us about your investing 

Dan Rowley: philosophy. Sure. And I think this is important also from the standpoint of, you know, there's a lot of offerings out there for sure. When you look at syndications, there's, and there's different asset classes and there's different, a, B, and C, and then there's self storage and housing and office and everything else.

So there's a lot of options out there. So I think it's important for any investor to kind of hone in on something and. Kind of get comfortable with something that they want to go after. Right? So for my, my own philosophy, I'm kind of more of a value investor, let's say. And this goes, this kind of crosses over into kinda the equity markets, right?

You got value stocks and you got growth stocks, right? And, uh, you know, I'm a follower of like Warren Buffett's philosophy. He likes to invest in businesses that make money, right? And they're not as speculative. So I'm the same way. I don't wanna. Invest in too much that's speculative. I'd rather, invest in something that's produces profit or can certainly produce profit in the near future and it's got intrinsic value to it.

So I think for me, real estate has kind of fit right into that kind of mindset. So, so just going back to equity markets again, I do still invest in equity markets, but I've certainly shifted a lot of my portfolio from equities to real estate. But when I'm looking at things in the stock market, so I pay attention to some of the fundamentals like PE ratio, right?

First earnings ratio, um, which kind of shows what, what something is valued at against their earnings, right? And that's similar to a cap rate dynamic, right? In real estate. So my point being here is that maybe an example I could cite would be you know, Tesla, right now they have a PE ratio of 55, which is a very high PE ratio, which means the company.

Market value is really high compared to earnings versus a Ford or a gm and their PE ratios are probably around five or 10. Right? So I'd be more likely to invest right now in Ford, GM than I would Tesla. And that's not to knock. Tesla's a great company, they're [00:16:00] a pioneer. They've made a lot of money for people.

But if I were to think about where to put my money today, it would be Tesla, it would be four gm, right? Just because of, I think there's a lot more downside than upside. Right. And so like last year for instance, I have a lot of money in B Buffett's, Berkshire Hathaway, right? And so L last year, 2022, that stock went up 4%, I think, while the s and p and the NASDAQ both went down 20 to 30%.

Right? So that just validates for me that if you're in kind of more value oriented investments, You know, you're probably less likely to see a lot of fluctuations. The volatility. That's a lot of reasons why I moved some of the money out of the stock market. It's very, you'll feel like you're in control.

I think that there's other value type investments outside equities that makes sense like real estate. So some more a value investor, and I don't need home runs necessarily. They're nice if you get them, but I'm, I'm okay with singles and doubles, right base hits, and I don't need to double my money and.

Two years, I'm, I'm fine doubling my money in five years. And that's what a typical real estate investment, that solid audit maybe potentially produce. Right. And I'm okay with that. You gotta have some, so I have a little more patience. I'm not looking for the kind of immediate, you know, home run. Mm-hmm. And so I shi away from, so, so again, I guess my, my philosophy is rather value oriented and I think real estate kind of fits in very well with that.

Um, I think the other thing is, to kind of resist kind of shiny object syndrome, right? Because there's a lot of noise out there. There's a lot of alternative investments and even more that have kind of crept up over the last few years, right? I mean, you got crypto, you got NFTs, you got SPACs, you got Robinhood, the ability to day trade based on, Reddit, memes and all these different things.

Right? And I think a lot of people hope to kind of make a lot of money. Very quickly, overnight, but to me that's more gambling and that's more speculation, and that's not true investing. So I, I tend to shy away from that and kind of focus more on stuff, [00:18:00] more boring investments like real estate and boring could be a good thing.

And again, I'm not knocking anybody else's strategy, but I think as an investor it's important to kind of like find your lane, kind of stay within it, see what you're comfortable with. So I'm a little bit more conservative. I think by nature I'm willing to let time, you know, kind of like play out. And I don't need this kind of immediate, life-changing thing because it's oftentimes not gonna be there.

It might be MRIs, right? And so I think, uh, kind of picking what you're comfortable with based on your philosophy. And mine is more value-oriented and real estate I think, fits very well into that. I'm willing to take time and, and hold investments over a longer period of time. And I think over the long haul, real estate's proven to be a pretty, pretty good investment, right?

Mm-hmm. 

Deana Berg: Yeah. So you got into multi-family you said in 2019. Is 

Dan Rowley: that correct? Yeah, through in terms of syndications? Yes. Mm-hmm. 

Deana Berg: Okay. What have you, what have you perceived as the, I mean, a lot has changed in the last six to 12 months from where we've been. Per your Goldilocks comment, what are some of the biggest changes that you've seen with the different operators who you're in communication with?

Dan Rowley: Well, certainly there hasn't been as much deal flow and it makes sense, right? It's been difficult to find deals that make sense to buy given the high debt cost. And I think the seller and buyer expectations have been kind of in different places. There's been discounted, um, and I've gotten a little more active myself in syndications.

So I've, with my partners, I've been looking at deals and it's been clearly the case that there hasn't been a lot of deals that make a whole lot of sense. I mean, you don't, I don't wanna stretch the numbers too much to be too optimistic. So we, we've held off on a number of deals, it just didn't make sense.

So I think that's one of the clear dynamics, right? That it's harder to find deals mean a seller wouldn't necessarily wanna sell now because it's a down market, unless they had to sell maybe, or you needed to, you know, free up their money or something. So there hasn't been nearly as many deals out [00:20:00] there.

And it's been a lot more difficult with the, the debt, current debt rates, right, to make, make things pencil out and especially to get cash flow, right? Mm-hmm. Right. 

Deana Berg: So tell me a little bit about your family. Is your wife involved in investing? Is she interested in learning about it? Do you have kids?

Tell me what you like to do as a family and how that overlaps with your professional 

Dan Rowley: life. Yeah, I would say my wife. Is interested, but not that involved. So she kind of leaves it to me. Uh, but she had, when we started buying our first rental property, she's definitely on board. She helped with that process and helped contribute capital for that process.

And we both, you'll seen that it's really yielded results, but in terms of the day-to-day, what I'm looking at and so forth, I don't involve her tremendously, but I would be willing to share with her any, anytime she wants. Mm-hmm. So, It's mainly me in terms of, the nuts and bolt. I have two girls, 10 and eight.

We're trying to get 'em involved in various activities and so I think the work-life balance that I've been able to achieve more recently has been important cuz we, I wanna spend time with them in their formative years, right? Mm-hmm. I don't wanna be working all the time. I would say that there've been points in my career many years ago where I was working a lot more.

I didn't have kids at the time, 60 hour work weeks, whatever. And at that point that wasn't, that was fine, but I wouldn't wanna do that again because I would miss out on a lot, I think, in terms of their form of the years of development. So we're trying to get them involved in various things, music, athletics academics.

So we don't know exactly what they're gonna kind of latch on to. We, we have some ideas, but right now it's just kind of getting involved, involved in various things and doing things with them and just enjoying this period of time. Cuz it's, it's, it's pretty It's heartwarming to have two girls. I grew up in a family with mostly boys, so this is kind of foreign to me.

Okay. And it's priceless to have two young girls. And so I don't wanna miss out on too much. So that's a little bit about my family. And how do you maintain that work-life 

Deana Berg: balance? You, you've gone from 60 hours a week to understanding, thank God, you know, that you understand how precious this [00:22:00] time is.

What do you, what kind of practical barriers, I guess, do you put into place to protect that time with your family? 

Dan Rowley: Yeah, I would say that I'm fortunate and blessed in many ways because my day job hasn't been super time demanding as it used to be, and so, and that's been a good thing. I think if it had started to be more demanding, again, I probably would, would be doing something else.

I wouldn't be doing the day job anymore, so it's provided me a work-life balance. It's very, very favorable that I didn't necessarily have before. And so, Sorry, there's a lawnmower in my neighbor's yard that doesn't come through. So I'd say I'll continue to work as long as it doesn't interfere too much with my family because at that point I would just be able to give up the day job.

Right. Because there's a lot of these investments have been yielded really good streams of income. Right. But I, I, I still, I think, also have the kind of personality I, I need to kind of be busy and occupied and get up in the morning, have some objectives and things to do so. Having some work and some day-to-day responsibilities, I think, and structure, let's say, is still important to me.

If I were retired tomorrow, I would have to kind of figure out a lot more things to occupy my time and I'll, I'll do that at some stage, but I'm still okay with doing the day job as long as it doesn't, you know, take over my life. And right now it hasn't necessarily taken over my life. So I've been blessed in that regard.

You 

Deana Berg: just described something that you and I spoke with briefly before the show started. I feel like when summer break starts every year, kids have to experience early retirement. Like the bottom just falls out on their daily structure, like they have an identity crisis. We're in the midst of that transition right now.

So when you were describing that, I was like, wow, that's unfolding in our house as we speak. 

Dan Rowley: Yeah, this is true, and I think there is a. A parallel and I, I, I've heard about people that have retired and then they just don't know really what to do. They've got too, they have too much time. Yeah. So I'll probably be one more to kind of ease into a retirement and I wanna keep myself busy and intellectually challenged.

Right. Let's say. Yeah. Well, 

Deana Berg: let's talk about [00:24:00] that. So often folks talk about their bigger why, especially folks who are really, um, involved with passive investing because they wanna create. Passive income ongoing ability to generate income with having more freedom of time. So what, what do you think of when you think of the bigger why, what does your family think about share your thoughts on 

Dan Rowley: that.

Yes, good question. I think for number one, I guess I feel pretty good about the value proposition as well, that real estate offers. That's some of the reason I like it. I think, you know, as owners of real estate, we have a responsibility, I think, to kind of provide. Clean, safe, affordable housing for people.

And because we do that hopefully there's some profit involved. And of course we do have a number of tax advantages, right, that the government gives us because they can't possibly provide all the housing people that, that, that's needed. Right. So I think I feel good about that value proposition. And it's not a superfluous kind of thing that you're selling or marketing to people.

It's a basic need, right. It's shelter. And so I think. The value proposition resonates with me as well. And in terms of, um, my why. I think that, you know, I've been blessed with a lot of resources and I wanna be a good steward of those resources. So we have a number of charities we regularly contribute to in our church.

And I think taking care of family and then where we can help out. Elsewhere. It, it, it's also something that, it feels good, right? And I think we wanna expand those opportunities as well. And I think LifeBridge, one of the reasons I really have a positive view of them right, is they, they, they definitely are very involved in a lot of profits go into the adoption support and they have a why that is, you know, that they really back up and, and are able to provide a for cause that they believe in.

I said, and I don't have that specific cause maybe yet. Mm-hmm. But I think I have a number of. Other char, smaller charities that we've been involved in for a number of years that we wanna continue to support and, and get more involved in the community and try to help people to the extent we can.

Right. [00:26:00] Oh, 

Deana Berg: that's great. That's great. So, wrapping things up, this has been a really great interview. I loved your thoughts on underwriting, uh, and market analysis. What, do you have any parting sh parting, your parting shot? Parting advice for other passive investors or people who are. Even already on this journey, what, what have you benefited from the most, or what do you recommend that folks do when they're engaging in investment with multifamily or real estate in general?

It doesn't have 

Dan Rowley: multifamily. I think it may. Again, big part of it is, is to kind of identify your investing philosophy and find something that fits that, again, even within real estate. And multi-family to some degree. There's different asset types and asset classes that you can get involved in. And you might have stronger opinions on class A, class B, class C, you know, workforce housing.

But find something that you, you feel good about from the value proposition standpoint. And I think, again, another thing I didn't mention earlier was experience, right? I think everybody has different experiences coming in, right? So I have, before I was investing in syndications, I had experience. As a rental property owner, so real estate experience and then additionally, just experience over 30 years of following markets.

Being involved in business and finance, being a CFO for the last 13 years, all these experiences have helped me to maybe just hone in on things that make sense for me. Um, so everybody's experience is gonna be very different. Somebody with an engineering background or an artistic background are gonna have maybe very different.

Philosophies are investing outcomes than myself, but I'd say find something that your experience is a good fit for. I think, uh, perspective, right? I, I think that you can't, I think the experience is helpful for me cuz you, you know, you just don't know what you don't know. If I was 30 years old and had only been investing for the last 10 or 12 years, let's say, um, I might again think that this Goldilocks economy is just the way things always work.

But that's, I know that that's not [00:28:00] reality cause I've lived through much more, right? I was working involved in finance during the.com crash. I was, doing things during the uh oh 8, 0 9 great recession. My first mortgage on property that I bought in mid 1990s is six or 7%, so that's not a wildly crazy number.

We're seeing those interest rates again, and that doesn't phase me that big much because by historical standards, That is, is not a super high interest rate still. Right. And I do believe that things got kind of distorted when cost of capital went down to, such a low rate as it was. So I think a lot of investments were going into things that maybe didn't have a great value proposition, but there was a lot of money out there to be invested.

Right. So again, I think experience, everybody's different experiences are gonna come into play in terms of. You know, how they, how they get involved in investing and what they choose to kind of focus on. But I dunno, that'd be my party shot. So figure out from your own experiences kinda what makes sense to you.

Kind of find a philosophy that you kind of apply and you know, find a niche that makes sense to you and kind of like maybe focus on it versus jumping too too much all over the place because there is a lot of noise out there and a lot of different investments that are being thrown out as promising, right.

Deana Berg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you. That's good. I, you kind of remind me of a study like the Waves kind of a guy. I love your your market background and the encouragement to look at underwriting and to compare that with average household incomes. Just reviewing some of the things that you commented on I think are really helpful and applicative applicable.

So thank you for that. Thank you for being here on the show today and wish you 

Dan Rowley: the best. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate your time.

Deana Berg: Welcome to your daily real estate syndication show. My name is Dina Berg. Today my guest is Dan Rollie, and Dan has had 30 years of professional experience in finance and business operation roles. He holds a position today of C F O [00:30:00] and General Manager for an online advertising network where more than 10 years he had oversight over all business operations, reporting directly to the private equity ownership group.

Furthermore, Dan has actively been involved in real estate investment for over a dozen years. Started like many of us in single family rental properties. Dan did it across five different states and currently holds a portfolio of 16 cash flowing rental properties valued to over 4 million over the last several years.

However, Dan has shifted focus to investments in private equity. Syndications and joint venture deals. He currently owns over 1.5 million in limited partner and private debt lender positions, and he is co-gen partner on a 281 unit deal in Greenville, South Carolina. One thing I love about today's interview is Dan's particular focus on investing in identifying growth markets that exhibit favorable demographics.

Growth and population income and jobs. He's gonna talk about that. I know you're going to enjoy it. So join me in today's show, Dan Rolly. Okay, you can cut that up any way you want, Brian. Um, and then you can add this at the end. Thanks again for joining us today for the Daily Real Estate Syndication Show.

Again, this is your host, Dena Bird. Don't forget to like and subscribe our show. Have a blessed day. Okay. Use whatever you want and whatever you don't want. Hope you have an amazing day.