WS1862 Insights into Industrial Property Investment | Highlights Lance Pederson

Unlock the secrets of real estate syndication with a deep dive into the industry in my exclusive conversation with Lance Pederson, a prominent expert in the field. Lance shares his wealth of experience, particularly in Class B industrial properties in the Midwest, and unveils his latest venture, Passive Advantage – a cutting-edge software startup crafted to empower investors.

Navigating the real estate landscape involves a myriad of risks, and Lance and I fearlessly dissect these challenges, emphasizing often-overlooked nuances, particularly within the dynamic industrial sector. Beyond the allure of potential returns, we delve into critical elements such as leases, tenants, and your individual risk tolerance. Our goal is to demystify real estate investment risks, providing you with a clear, actionable understanding.

As the episode concludes, Lance offers a fresh perspective on customer needs and value delivery in real estate. Drawing from his success in software startups, he illuminates a new approach to real estate investing, emphasizing the pivotal role of understanding customers' needs in wealth creation. Whether you're a novice venturing into the world of real estate or a seasoned investor seeking a paradigm shift, this episode is a treasure trove of insights and expert advice. Remember, it's not just about listening – absorb and apply for real success in real estate investing!


Ready to supercharge your real estate investment knowledge? Click the links below to dive deep into the full episodes.


https://lifebridgecapital.com/2023/08/25/building-relationships-to-grow-your-business-lance-pederson/


https://lifebridgecapital.com/2023/08/24/industrial-real-estate-trends-and-predictions-lance-pederson/

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Transcript

00:02 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
This is your daily real estate syndication show. I'm your host, whitney Sewell, today. We've packed a number of shows together to give you some highlights. I know you're gonna enjoy the show. Thank you for being with us today. Let's welcome it back to the show. I'm looking forward to just having conversation with you Again. It's been a while. I was looking back. I think you were like show 970 something and maybe 300 something as well. It's been a while, though, since we've connected a few years anyway, so looking forward to just learning from you again. Let the listeners learn from you and your expertise, and no doubt our past investors are gonna love the show today and some of the things we're gonna focus on. But give us a little update. What's happened to me with Lance Neil Since you were on last a few years ago? You're focused now and let's dive in. 

00:51 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, thanks for having me, Whitney. Yeah, so since last time we spoke, we had some pretty big changes, so I exited my partnerships. I was in. We had a private equity real estate firm up in Portland, Oregon, and a fund administration company that had an investment platform, which is, I think, we talked about last time. So I exited there at the end of 2021 and went out of my own, and so now I spend my time. 

01:17
I've switched over to the operator side of the equation, so I'm working with some former clients of mine. We formed a new general partnership, more acquiring Class B industrial properties in the Midwest what I call the heartland states, and I've also partnered up with a passive investor, sam Giordano, to work on it. It's more of a software startup, a marketplace reboot, called passive advantage. We've got an LP deal analyzer tool that we're converting to an online tool and basically helping LPs do that. So and I still maintain a consulting practice I work with a lot of GPs real estate sponsors around the country, consulting with them on fund formation and architecture and structure and how do you compensate for your partner GPs and all that good stuff. So bringing all my skills and experience sort of to bear and having a great time. 

02:13 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
That's awesome. I appreciate the update. I think it's helpful for the listeners to hear different ways. You're adding value to others as well there. Tell me before we jump on in, why Class B industrial? Why that asset class? 

02:28 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, my partners always started acquiring more heavily, like in 2020 kind of divesting. They were divesting from some retail stuff. The reason I love Class B industrial in particular is just it really the supply and demand imbalance. Somewhere from two to 3% of the supply is depleted annually. It's just tore down its higher, better use in urban cores, or was just the whole COVID and supply chain interruptions, the reshoring activity that's taking place? 

03:02
Yeah, it's much like multifamily I mean it still is, but certainly was even more so seven years ago where there just isn't enough of it and they can't build it fast enough, right, and so I think last year they developed, they onboarded 500 million square feet, which is a record, but is pales in comparison to what the need is. 

03:22
Just with the growth of e-commerce and other tenant use cases ghost kitchens, cannabis, I mean you name it. It's just. I think it's just a great place to be and, in my personal opinion, is poised to become the next sort of darling. But of course, I hope that the secret remains for a little longer, although it seems like by the day that that's not proving to be the case. But and through my consulting engagements, I worked with over 200 different groups around the country, and many of them were executing industrial strategies, and so I think that was the big thing for me too is just, I've had a front row seat to pretty much every strategy of managing imaginable with real estate, and I always liked industrial. I mean, I always had to go hard for mobile home parks too, but that's certainly been oversaturated. So that's really my thesis on why industrial. 

04:20 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
Yeah, I know it's interesting, as I see probably who knows, over the next few years, but I see more things being built, designed industry coming back to the US, most likely in a lot of ways, and in more industrial buildings. The use are needing, us needing more and more right. I think that's probably a wise move On your own, your space, and it's probably not as flooded yet right as some other asset classes with operators. So maybe you're getting in on some of the beginning of it anyway. 

04:56 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, I think so. I mean it just it looks like in terms of competition when we're putting offers in on properties we're not seeing a tremendous amount of competition and which is usually the sign and I feel like, especially when you feel really, really good about the basis you're getting in at that it's not quite flooded yet. And that might be different in different areas. Like I said, we're sort of in the upper Midwest areas, but I like that area just because there's so much between waterways, rail, interstate, so much stuff moves east to west, north to south through that neck of the woods. But yeah, just super bullish on on Class B, industrial in particular. 

05:37 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
Well, let's jump into helping our LPs, our passive investors, analyze the deal a little bit. 

05:43 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
And. 

05:44 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
I'd love. 

05:44
I know you've gained a lot of experience from this and helping others, and I love the background too and helping and working with so many different operators right, and structuring deals and the fund structures, those things. 

05:56
But even working through building a tool to help LPs, like I don't know, there's just a lot of knowledge that's going to be gained by fleshing some of that stuff out right. 

06:06
And so let's jump in there a little bit on helping, helping you you mentioned this before we started. 

06:11
It's like helping them make better informed decisions right as they're investing, and even as an LP myself, it's like I'm always looking to learn right, always looking for the other questions, not only for me to ask operators as I'm investing, but also so I'm prepared right as as LPs come to us, like I want to make sure that myself or my team, we also have the answers that, hey, we've thought through those things right, or check those things out, or we know those things for our LPs, and so when they come to us with those questions, we have the answers and I feel like it's just a continual growing process, right, there's always some LP to ask me something like well, I'm going to put that on the list right, so we know to figure that out next time ahead of time. But anyway, let's dive in there a little bit, and maybe we started at an elementary level, but then I'd love to dive in a little more on some complex things that you're helping fees to learn and to be better and make better informed decisions as we invest. 

07:14 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, I mean I think at the high level, right, I mean you have to start with. Each of these asset classes is different, and I think the good news over the last seven, eight, nine, 10 years is that we've really seen a lot more LPs or passive investors become really comfortable with the moving parts in multifamily deals. There's always more to learn, as you said, but I think, just as a on whole and the value add strategy in particular, and then the podcast that I had done I did 115 episodes and nothing that you did, but it was the real estate risk report, right, and it was. I just think it's always important to step back and really try to think through. With any offering that's put in front of you is just read those risk disclosures. They were written by an attorney. Don't freak out, but just try to internalize them and convert them into something more tangible, right. 

08:09
And so I think that's that's first and foremost is just to understand what kind of risks you're facing. So if you're buying a core multifamily deals an example I mean you don't have you don't have development risk, you don't have rehab risk or construction risk, there's just those risks are off the table, right. And so, of course, when you remove risk from the table, that means that the expected return will be lower vis-a-vis if they existed. And so how occupied is the building? Just things like that, just trying to think through, like what could go wrong or what are the risks? Obviously you have things that we can't control, like floods and hurricanes and fires, things like that, and of course those are risks, but they can't necessarily be entirely or even close to entirely mitigated, right. So I think that's where I always start, like, as it pertains to industrial, I mean any of these you have to look at what are the key drivers that make the business plan move right, and those are the variables that you wanna spend the most time looking at. 

09:15
So, in the case of industrials and example, you've got the building, or buildings if there's a portfolio of them or whatever, and they exist in a given location or market and sub market. But you've got really the big driver is the lease right, the leases that exist or in place on the given property and the tenants who've executed those leases right, which I think is a bit of a difference from like multifamily where leases are generally one year long and you don't necessarily, and as long as they can pay the rent. You're not really worried about underwriting the tenant so much, right? I mean, are they good people and have not had trouble in the past? It's just pretty simple. But in the case of industrial, if it's a local firm it's only been they're a fencing company or something that've been in business for three years, that's like a local tenant then there's more risk, right, because the risk of them defaulting on the lease is higher, whereas if it's a national credit tenant or investment grade tenant someone who's actually has a credit rating with a ratings agency, things like that then your risk is lower. But once again, that also means that your return will probably lower, right? 

10:26
So you have to look at those things when you're assessing the buildings, like who are those tenants? And then looking at the leases, because even the best investment grade tenant, that lease might not be favorable. You might have a 15 year lease and the rents are 50% below market or just things like that, and you can't get out of it, right? So, assuming they're gonna honor their lease, which if they have that kind of investment grade rating, then they're probably stuck with it and that's, and that drives your NOI. So the building's value is driven by NOI, right. So it's just, it's looking at those moving parts. 

11:03
And then I think the thing I like most about industrial is that really, the building is probably all not. 

11:09
It's not that it's not as important, right, and so when we talk about like class B versus like class A in industrial, but it's more of the nondescript buildings you drive by that were built 20 years ago or 25 or 30 years ago, and the things that matter most or that can really sink you is the condition of the roof, right, maybe the parking lot, but oftentimes these are triple net leases or maybe even absolute triple net lease, where the tenant is really responsible for property taxes and insurance and those other things that can make a big difference. 

11:46
Like in a multifamily deal, we've seen the rise in insurance rates or property taxes. In the case of a triple net lease, that's the risk that your tenant's taking and, once again, to the degree that they are a strong tenant, they can absorb those things. So it's really those are things we look at more so in industrial, but I think you have to do the same exercise with each of them. Don't overcomplicate it. Just try to think through, like, what are the main drivers and what are the big things that can sink you, rather than focusing on the things that, not to say they're not important. If I'm gonna spend any effort and energy and my power, I'm gonna put it on the things that matter most. 

12:23 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
I think, the more I'm thinking about it, as you're talking about it, I feel like we all hear the terminology or the wording of risk, knowing your risk and your risk, tolerance and all these things that we almost are complacent about it. Like we hear it so much, it's just like we don't think about it as much. And why I'm saying that too is that I feel like a lot of times as an LP, we don't think about the risk versus reward, like you were talking about, or it's like something in a deal doesn't go exactly as planned and investors are upset right, and maybe rightfully so, but I think too oftentimes it was. It probably was known that that was a risk, probably gonna happen, but they didn't really internalize in the beginning that that's pretty likely, that's gonna happen. Does that make sense? No, though it makes perfect sense. 

13:16 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
I think that's where, when it comes down to then the terms that are extended to the LPs, that's what you have to keep in mind is to say, because, once again, if you don't assess the risks that are there, that could be there, that could be actualized first, then you have no way of then backing into and giving them weighting right on the return. So if I'm telling you that I can get you into one of our industrial deals and it's projected at 11 or 12% cash on cash return, with a three X equity multiple and IRR that equates to high 20s or whatever right, I mean if you've done the risk analysis, then you can start to back down and say, well, if any of these risks are actualized, then I can appreciate that risk premium that if things pretty much went as planned, that's what I was being compensated for was for taking said risk. Now, if those things actualize, then that means that might have only getting an 8% or maybe less right, like who knows what you could get. But I mean that's why we have you've got the RIT. Free treasury rate is sort of our what's the thing that's closest to a guarantee. 

14:32
And then you build up from there, I mean in us as operators, we do the same thing. We look at the cost of debt and then we say, can we get in at some amount of basis points or percent, 2% above whatever our interest rate is, and execute our plan and get it to a yield that's something higher than that? Right, and and that's how we assess the deal, like as the active deal makers, right. But then when it translates to the LP, that's what you have to be thinking about. Is that? How do I protect my downside risk Should this operator not be able to execute as planned, or should the risk actualize that maybe they couldn't completely mitigate, but I think that's the right process for thinking about. It is like when you see that return and, conversely, lps I think need to do the opposite, is that when something's coming to them with what they think looks low, because everyone got really used to that multiply family boom and whatever they need to look at it and say, okay, well, what are those risks? 

15:27
and maybe that's still a good investment on a risk-adjusted basis. 

15:33 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
Yeah, and I agree with you completely as far as what you call the multifamily boom. Right, and it really is. Set this expectation that leads a lot of LPs to be disappointed with a projected return now right, or but I feel like too I think it's a lot of operators now are maybe I've learned to be more realistic In some regards of setting those expectations. I know even us. Early on we thought we were being transparent and communicating everything with investors and, as we've learned right in more and more deals and more and more discussions with investors, we're trying to be just over the top more, even more transparent, more like setting accurate expectations right, like where we thought we did before and it's like we've learned. Okay, we still need to do a better job at this right and ensuring LPs understand what could happen or what might happen, or just what to expect. Right, that it may not always be like it was three years ago or five years ago. 

16:35 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, that's right. So it's all about setting expectations. 

16:39 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
That's right. And leaning into the industrial piece, maybe a little bit for our LPs and just the questions that they should be asking the operator that maybe that they wouldn't know to ask right, and I could see investors, even the multifamily investors, say that's been in multifamily a long time, you know, thinking about industrial as maybe the next class, but maybe not knowing exactly some things that they should know about industrial. Right, or they should be asking the operator what are some of those things? 

17:10 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, I think you know one of the big ones is just how do you go about leasing the property up? Like, okay, great, so you've got your weighted average lease term at acquisition, which means what's, how long are these leases left on the books? If it comes back it says 24 months. Then it's like, well, how are you going to go about backfilling those tenants, should those existing tenants not renew? So I think it would be similar to how retail operates, right, like that's a big driver, like having those skill sets or ability to do that is a big driver. 

17:45
Meaning if somebody just rolls in and just decides suddenly that they're going to start buying industrial and hasn't done it, they're going to be, they're probably going to be, at a pretty big disadvantage because it's very broker driven from the leasing perspective, even more so, probably, than the buying. So to acquire one. But just understanding that. And of course, like we do tend to buy more single tenant buildings. But there's more risk to a single tenant building, right, and of course it all depends upon the strength of the tenant, right, but the whole building can go dark if one tenant decides to move out, right, so, just understanding, you know that. 

18:24
Whereas if it's like one of these flex parks in a multi-tenant where they've got 40, 50 tenants, that's going to be more laborious to manage. But finding a large building that is two or three or four tenants right and might be able to diversify it more. So just really getting comfortable that the operators understand that aspect of it and don't get as hung up on the property management or whatever I mean, because it's let's face it, you got three, two, three tenants in a building. I mean, they're all sending you a check every month Like the property management piece isn't nearly as challenging or difficult as it would be in multifamily, where I personally who's the property manager? Multifamily is looming large in my mind and I think where many people are seeing that it makes a big, it can make a big difference. 

19:12 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
For sure. 

19:14 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Who's managing the property. So I think that's the big thing to hone in on is just how do you plan on? What do you bring into the table in that regard? And, like in my case, like my partners, he's been doing this for 20 plus years, a lot of it in retail, but retail industrial just have a lot of similarities in that regard. But it's all about who you own, the relationships that you have, and in the acquisition that we're working on right now is a perfect example of that, the building sat vacant for the. It was an owner operated building is had vacant for a year and they tried to lease it and could never lease it. We get under contract as a vacant building with basically a tenant in our pocket and that's so. That's the different ways. That's how we add value. The value add industrial deal isn't the same as a value at multiple. We're not doing a bunch of construction necessarily. That's not necessary. It's all in the financial engineering around the leases and the tents. 

20:14
And then the tenant may do the construction right, improving the yeah and once again, and you might be able that's the other benefit with the supply and demand and balances that we're seeing, rates continue to go up and up and up, because there's just not enough space. So, but that's the same thing. It's just you might to sweeten the deal, negotiate some tenant improvements, and but it's all negotiation. So you're just looking for operators that have got strong negotiating skills, know what they're doing, have a Rolodex, relationships with tenants and certainly owners. The ability to acquire these things at the right price too, is it, of course? 

20:51 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
we've never done any industrial. I had a live bridge inside. I just wondered is it common for the management to be done in-house, or do you still hire a third party for most of the night? 

21:02 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
No, it's super common. It's common for that reason, because it just it's. 

21:07 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
Much more simple. 

21:08 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
It's much more simple, right, and then you know you're not going to have to do anything. So even if, because the things on a triple net lease, you know that you're responsible for those are things that aren't difficult to go find a contractor to repair the roof, or you know what I mean like you get six bids, like any of us, anyone could do that. 

21:28 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
And probably not anyone, but most people could. 

21:33 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Why don't more tenants buy their own buildings? I mean, that's one of the pieces that you're seeing is just, you're seeing a lot more sale leasebacks, so a deal that we just closed a few weeks ago and that's what it was. And I think the reason is just people realize, like, especially if they acquired the real estate a while ago, they've got some equity in it. So it's just sitting on their balance sheet and they can't use it. So you've got that dynamic. 

21:57
And then, when it comes to just them looking out to acquire it's not to say they don't, because of course people do they just think it's just optionality and just knowing that if they're a growing business, it's the same issue you have with, or had with, office Space back in the day when we all had offices. 

22:13
But it's just like if you're running enterprise, you're probably trying to grow it and then you outgrow the space and need other facilities. So they just don't want the hassle of being a real estate owner, knowing that they're probably gonna end up with they execute their own plan and vision. They'll have three, four different buildings, and it just I think it just gives them the optionality and not having to deal with the headache. But they're still, it's not to say that people don't buy their own building, because they certainly do, like the deal that we're working on right now. That operator or that tenant, we've negotiated a purchase option at year five and at year seven at a seven cap, so they want to buy the building. It's just that they're transitioning out of another facility that they're lease, so they just don't. They're just not ready to pull on that right now that makes sense. 

23:00 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
What are the, I'd say, common terms ALP could expect in an industrial deal like this? Or how long is an investment? Is it different for industrial than multifamily? And some of the things they could expect. 

23:12 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, that's a great question I mean. So our strategy is it just differs. Right, you're gonna have the long-term hold guys who want to hold it forever, but I mean, most of these leases are gonna be five years, seven years, so it could be similar right to a multifamily. I'd say that's probably average is that they're gonna end five years. But, like, our strategy is to find stuff where the leases are close to expiring and our intent is to, once we renew them or put new leases on the books, is to basically put it back in the market. So we're looking to turn ours more. 

23:49
But that's just a strategic choice that we've made. We like to turn them every three. We want to. We buy it today, we want to sell it in three to four years if possible, like in that case of the one deal probably end up beating year five. But yeah, I think that's, I think that's the big thing is just to understand that it's how the value add works and when the value add will be added, and it's gonna be driven around the leases. So it's really looking at what is that weighted average lease term for the given property that you're looking at and you can pretty much figure out about when that value add will be added, and that's is there anything to refi it at that time and then hold it for another, you know couple of years, and sell, or just go ahead and sell it right after that? 

24:35 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
I'll have the increase in interest rates affected this asset class. 

24:41 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
I mean I think it has on the coasts more, where it's just it's more competitive and not as lucrative. So I mean, once again, the market drives some risk too, right so but in ours I mean it works. I mean we're sort of underwriting everything to around a 7% interest rate and we're getting local bank financing versus. So I mean, for us that's it really hasn't, because most of the deals we're looking at we're looking at deals that are like 10 caps going in, usually in seven, eight cap markets. Once again it's like so that's our strategy. It's just our strategy is we really only? We really only want to hit like triples and all runs. So it's all about getting it a really good basis. But yeah, they pencil even at a 7% interest rate. 

25:32 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
What are you expecting to say the next six, 12, 18 months? To look like just in the this real estate market in general and maybe even specific for industrial? 

25:43 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, I mean I'm as interested as the next guy on the market in general, particularly just with multifamily, just what's going to happen here with the shakeout. And I just think that how all this debt ends up, how that shakes out, is going to dramatically alter how this thing works right. And I don't think anybody knows, and I certainly don't know, but I know that there was a lot of pulling rate debt that was put on a lot of these things and bridge debt, and I just know that that's not looking good right now Because I'm in the camp that I just tend to believe that I don't think these interest rates are going to be going down anytime super soon. I just don't think that's going to happen, maybe a little bit, but not enough to rescue those guys right. And I think you see that across the board. I mean, anybody who was of the overly exuberant sort of phase and bought wrong or at the top with any kind of debt could be in trouble. So you're going to see some amount of distress strictly because of how certain deals are capitalized. But that's how I'm looking at it and I guess from us, from on the industrial side, I think it should be a little bit more immune to it. But I'm hoping that I hate to. I mean, I'm hoping that we'll actually end up being able to acquire some stuff that's distressed because of the same thing, just not capitalized properly. And that's why I've always told all my advisory clients whether it's a fund or anything, I'm just like it really is it's super, super important how you capitalize any asset, real estate in particular, or if it's loans or whatever. I mean you could have performing assets that are fine, but if you didn't capitalize it properly, it can sink you. 

27:39
So, going back to from an LPs perspective, I mean everyone's learning now, like, yeah, you don't just gloss over that debt slide, like that debt slide's pretty darn important. And just understanding who's the lender, what are those terms and the fine print I mean I don't know how many people I've heard from that like somehow some way didn't even realize that there was no cap on their floating rate debt. Like to me that's just, it seems crazy, like I just don't understand that. But I think that's just what happens is people they get moving so fast. 

28:15
And I do think too, just from LPs, to fully understand, right, when operators, no matter what asset class you're in, and you tie up a deal and you go through all this due diligence and you might get a term sheet at some point from lenders, right, but it is one of the last things to be finalized, right, because the appraisal's got to come in and the building report and spectrum, all that stuff sort of lags, and when you're being marketed a deal, a lot of that stuff is still sort of in flight Because just the timing is so tight on a syndicated deal, right, and so there is some wobble there and there is a chance that things can be overlooked. So just everyone has to keep that in mind, that so checklists are important and things like that, just to make sure you haven't overlooked anything. 

29:04 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
Speak to preparing for a downturn, say in an industrial type asset, or what is the way? 

29:10 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
It's been interesting the last few years, like after being in businesses that were, I'd call, more stable over the last 10 or 15 years. The things you do in those businesses are different. It's kind of. Now I'm at this point where I've started from ground zero on many of these things that I'm working on. 

29:31
So I'm a big proponent of lean startup principles and just iteration and just focusing on the main thing and that kind of stuff. So that's more where my mindset is is just don't worry about everything. Worry about the important things and I think that applies to life in general. But certainly when you're at the stage where I'm at, where you're starting a new general partnership even if it's just industrial and raising funds which, of course, for me is like falling off a chair because I've been helping people do that and running our own funds for years but when you got to start from scratch and all those things, you got to make sure you're focusing on the right things. And then, with the software startup, it's exciting to get back into that again and it's the same thing. It's like focus on what the customers want. It don't matter what I want, it matters what they want and whatever they want, figure out how to give it to them and ask a lot of questions and learn what you can do to improve it and continue to deliver value to them. 

30:30 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
No doubt about it. I love that, I love the focus. So thank you again. Tell the listeners how they can get in touch with you and learn more about you. 

30:36 - Lance Pederson (Guest)
Yeah, I think the best way is on LinkedIn. Just search Lance Peterson, connect me with me there and we can take it from there. Yeah, I think that's the most expedient way to connect. 

30:52 - Whitney Sewell (Host)
Thank you for being with us again today. I hope that you have learned a lot from the show. Don't forget to like and subscribe. I hope you're telling your friends about the real estate syndication show and how they can also build wealth in real estate. You can also go to livebridgecapitalcom and start investing today.