WS1886 Navigating Industrial Real Estate | Nic DeAngelo

Today's episode  promises to deliver insightful discussion and strategic approaches to real estate investment. We are Joined by Nic DeAngelo, a well-versed investor who's changing the game to accommodate investors looking for shorter commitments and stable returns.
 

As many of you seek to navigate the choppy waters of market volatility, we'll delve into Nic's bullish approach to real estate and the "barbell" strategies that suit varying investor timelines. We'll compare the classic 5-10 year syndication hold periods with 12-month income fund models, reflecting on how these can mitigate risk amid fluctuating interest rates.


Prepare to hear firsthand how Nic's company tackled the challenging COVID landscape, transforming potential setbacks into opportunities by aligning with market demographics and adopting a cooperative approach with tenants. Nic also candidly discusses his centrist political views, focusing on the pivotal role of immigration in fostering economic growth and the competitive shortcomings of the US immigration policy compared to that of Canada's.


Additionally, Nic will take us behind the scenes of Saint Investments, highlighting their socially conscious approach to mortgages, aiming for outcomes that benefit everyone involved - borrowers, banks, and investors alike. With the evolving investor landscape shifting toward mortgage-focused investments, Nic has put a spotlight on the thriving sectors within commercial real estate, specifically multifamily and industrial, and the implications of manufacturing moving from China to North American soil.



So, if you're ready to get real about real estate syndication, tune in, and let's explore these pressing questions to elevate your investment game. Don't forget to hit like and subscribe for more episodes like this and visit lifebridgecapital.com to start your journey in real estate investing.


Don't miss out on the wealth of knowledge from today's expert, Nic DeAngelo! Head over to saintinvestment.com/resources to access valuable webinars, free resources, and smart investment strategies that Nic has generously offered. It's your opportunity to learn from a seasoned pro how to navigate the complex world of real estate and secure your financial future. Visit now to start elevating your investment game!

VISIT OUR WEBSITE
https://lifebridgecapital.com/

Here are ways you can work with us here at Life Bridge Capital:
⚡️START INVESTING TODAY: If you think that real estate syndication may be right for you, contact us today to learn more about our current investment opportunities: https://lifebridgecapital.com/investwithlbc

⚡️Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheRealEstateSyndicationShow

📝 JOIN THE DISCUSSION
https://www.facebook.com/groups/realestatesyndication

➡️ FOLLOW US
https://twitter.com/whitney_sewell
https://www.instagram.com/whitneysewell/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitney-sewell/

⭐ Be Our Guest!
We are continuously working hard to help our listeners with their journey to real estate syndication. If you think you can add value in any way to our listeners who are in commercial real estate, then we’d love to have you over.
Apply here: https://lifebridgecapital.com/join-our-podcast/

Transcript

Nic DeAngelo [00:00:00]:

Industrial is an asset class where primarily you're looking at very large buildings with very large floor plans with mostly single or very few tenants. So when you're purchasing a building in industrial, the risk is extremely high if you don't have the literal best tenant available sitting in that space.

Deana Berg [00:00:24]:

You. This is your daily real estate syndication show, and I'm your host, Deana Berg. Join me today in a second episode with our guest, Nic D'Angelo. Today, Nic is going to discuss how they consider market selection in light of international and geopolitical trends, including what's happening in China, what's happening in Mexico, and how that is affecting trade. Did you know that also affects market selection for great, profitable real estate. Listen to Nic's thoughts on this. It's a great show. We're back today with our second episode with Nic DeAngeloof Saint Investment out of California.

Deana Berg [00:01:09]:

And if you listen to our previous show, Nic pontificates very wisely on what is unfolding in the economic backdrop of today in light of investments. Many of you, our listeners, are passive investors, active investors. And so we always want to add value. So we wrapped up our show, the previous show, discussing who the rising stars in this moment in time are. And we'll be on into. I mean, Nic, I'll let you talk about the Runway for that. But to rise to the top, specifically, what are those, Nic?

Nic DeAngelo [00:01:41]:

Oh, I think without a doubt, if you look at the commercial real estate sector today, the absolute winners, even with the stumbling blocks that they've had, the winners are multifamily and industrial.

Deana Berg [00:01:54]:

Tell me why. I couldn't agree more. And I love what you said in the previous show. Maybe we can give a little fast forward summary about the reshoring of industry, but love to hear you catch us up to why those two are the strongest asset classes.

Nic DeAngelo [00:02:07]:

Absolutely. So commercial real estate has made a lot of headlines, and not for good things recently. But here's what people are missing, is that the first is that multifamily, as a sector, is already privileged. It gets government debt. It has all kinds of structures that make multifamily such an advantageous asset class. It also gets a lot of attention. So what people fail to realize is that industrial has performed almost as good as multifamily in many markets. And in some markets, it's performed better because of where we sit economically in the current environment throughout the US and with trade internationally.

Nic DeAngelo [00:02:45]:

So it's a different calculus to figure out what markets and what drivers exist in the industrial world. But we lean into that heavily like we mentioned we talked at length in the previous episode. There's a ton of good economic information out there that we lean into so that to make our decisions with industrial real estate investing, that's good.

Deana Berg [00:03:06]:

One of my favorite discussions about investment is market analysis. So I would love for you to talk. I have the multifamily background on market selection, but like we talked about, it goes hand in hand with other industries. So tell us how you look at market analysis. What are some of the non negotiables, what are some of the red flags? How do you decide where you're going to invest and what time frame do you consider when looking at markets?

Nic DeAngelo [00:03:31]:

Fantastic questions. Some of my favorite questions, as a matter of fact. So let's jump in. So let's go industrial. Like you said, I'm positive you guys have layers and layers and layers of drivers that you look into for multifamily. Here are some of the big ones for industrial. Industrial is an asset class where primarily you're looking at very large buildings with very large floor plans with mostly single or very few tenants. So when you're purchasing a building in industrial, the risk is extremely high if you don't have the literal best tenant available sitting in that space.

Nic DeAngelo [00:04:10]:

So whereas if you have 200 tenants in a building, there's a degree of balancing. Hey, we got a bad tenant. Whoopsie.

Deana Berg [00:04:18]:

Mitigation. Sure.

Nic DeAngelo [00:04:20]:

That's not industrial. So the way you diversify an industrial is with a portfolio. So that's how you put that together. At St. We have dozens of industrial deals that we've done successfully. We've never lost money, thank God. But we have to be very careful with our selection and how and why. The drivers that we're looking for are twofold.

Nic DeAngelo [00:04:42]:

One is we look at warehouse distribution. That's one model that we look at. You're looking at huge open floor plans, lots of roll up doors, lots of docks for 18 wheelers. Kind of that model where things are shipped in from out of country or from other parts of the country to a warehouse, and they're distributed out of that warehouse. So the drivers of that primarily, you're going to be looking at international trade. So what we're looking for, it goes all the way down to what the local docks and what the ports are doing. So we look at drivers from like the ports of Long beach, the ports of Los Angeles, which represents any given year, about 30% to 40% of international trade through the US. So we're buying a lot in the southwest, primarily southern California, for a lot of those drivers.

Nic DeAngelo [00:05:28]:

As well as the Texas triangle. We really like the imports through the Texas infrastructure there and for those metros, because not just that, it also lets us kind of tap into the second half, which is manufacturing. That's the other side. One is imports, it's distribution. You're using warehousing to kind of navigate a lot of the goods and therefore the services. The other half is manufacturing. So we dove in a little bit about China in our previous discussion. If manufacturing in China is on the downswing, then that means it's either going to go to other low cost labor countries.

Nic DeAngelo [00:06:06]:

Or maybe the calculus now is that it needs to be a lot closer, that maybe the US can't budget, us companies can't budget for 60 days of waiting for goods and services to get from overseas. And maybe it needs to be closer and maybe the efficiency of us labor or mexican labor, because the mexican manufacturing industry is booming right now. Between those two things, we've seen a consistent trend of efficiencies that actually place production in many us markets and mexican markets cheaper than it is in China today.

Deana Berg [00:06:45]:

Wow, say that again. That's crazy.

Nic DeAngelo [00:06:49]:

Many industries in manufacturing today, it's cheaper for them all in right now as we sit today, not in the future. Today, it's cheaper for them to produce in the US and Mexico today than it is to produce in China. And bring over why? One, it's not the labor cost. We'll start there because China still has cheaper labor than the US, although there's been a 15 x increase in labor costs since the year 2000, plus or minus. But China's efficiency with their manufacturing has only increased three x during that same period of time. So there's a mismatch where the cost of labor has increased so much more than the efficiency with what they're doing.

Deana Berg [00:07:33]:

And when you're talking about efficiency, are you talking about mechanization? Are you talking about AI? Are you talking about systems and technology? What creates efficiencies to that level?

Nic DeAngelo [00:07:44]:

So it's a little bit of all the above. Those technologies and those huge advancements that you just added, and rightfully so, with a lot of that being in the news, frankly, the bet by most people on that side with robotics and AI is that the US is light years ahead of China. And so not only that, Mexico as our closest trade partner, our neighbor, we share a border and they have cheaper labor than the US. So if you take us efficiency and you take us high end manufacturing, and you add that with a mexican labor force, and you take that just below the border, you have a pretty powerful combination where we're already more efficient than China with how we manufacture, then it's cheaper and it's next day you can throw the goods and services on trucks instead of boats. So all in, we're seeing a huge shift away from China to the US for manufacturing, which on our side, we are betting and leaning into with southern manufacturing markets on the coasts.

Deana Berg [00:08:49]:

Okay, this is a little bit of a departure about assets and investment, but I have to ask, because I know you thought about it, because you do your homework. What impact do you think that will have on immigration?

Nic DeAngelo [00:09:01]:

Well, I'll say this. I'm politically, like, right in the middle. So this is a critique of both sides. Frankly, I think both sides have missed the mark on immigration so ridiculously that nobody's having the real conversation where we are trying to achieve in the US. If we're smart, we are trying to take the best and the brightest from other countries. You know who else does this is the socialist Republic of Canada. Right? So I say that half jokingly. I love Canadians, I've many dear canadian friends, and they have a huge economy.

Nic DeAngelo [00:09:38]:

But what Canada does with immigration is they say, look, if you can demonstrate a high level of schooling, of achievement, of whatever you get fast tracked for the immigration status, fast tracked through the immigration process in the US, we have such a mess of red tape and political nonsense, we are completely missing the boat on this. As a matter of fact, we talked demographics last time. Here's a demographic shift for you. If we took out the immigration from the US, what we'd end up with is a actual loss of population. That's not good. With immigration, we're slightly at or above a net zero, where we're actually growing as a population. So not only do we need it demographically, but we also, if we structure this properly, we can attract the top talent in the world, which we already do, accidentally, despite ourselves. Right? If we put a good immigration in place and both sides can get together and say, this is for the benefit of the country, then we can end up with a situation where we have the best manufacturing industry that we've ever had, we have the best partnerships with north american fellow countries that we've ever had, and we steal the best talent from all the other nations to bring them here and educate them and get them here, adding their value.

Nic DeAngelo [00:10:58]:

That's what I see as the perfect storm.

Deana Berg [00:11:00]:

Except that the last two things do seem like they're at ODS if we're going to have great international relationships, yet we're draining all their talent. I think that could complicate things. If other countries are trying to grow and to grow their economies, then there could be rift there. I don't know. What do you think?

Nic DeAngelo [00:11:20]:

So I would say that if we maybe that sounded malicious, like we are targeting, we want to steal their best people. I mean it in a way of attracting them saying, hey, we are know, oh, de dollarization, the US is crumbling. These are ridiculous headlines. If you look at any of the drivers versus the US versus any other country in the we can we already attract the top talent that wants to be here in many ways. If we can give the top talent globally a place to thrive and really be able to reinvigorate the american dream and give them a shot at being able to achieve things here. That's really what I'm talking about. Like opening it up for the best and the brightest to have an opportunity where they can fast track and be in here adding value in a really big way. So I'm super pro immigration, just to be clear, and not because it's a political thing.

Nic DeAngelo [00:12:12]:

Again, I think both sides are wrong on this issue. I think it's just economically and strategically and demographically the right thing for the US to figure this out in a good way.

Deana Berg [00:12:23]:

Yeah. An example is that I was reading an article recently know a year ago in the summer, Congress passed a very significant bill called the Chips act, bringing all production and development of semiconductors on us soil. Ironically, there's a lot of thought around that it will be foreign workers that are going to fuel these trained, skilled foreign workers that are going to be fueling these different fabs around the US, which is translated into our business is a demand for housing and not purchasing, but for apartments. So it's interesting to look at the trends and to look at the different asset classes and how they can come up under the supporting industries that will demand, or I guess be an invitation for the skilled, trained worker that are international.

Nic DeAngelo [00:13:14]:

Absolutely. So you guys are looking at the same drivers. And to really understand, I think most people miss what you're talking about right now when they're going to the investment side and they don't realize that there's big drivers that are decade plus investment opportunities for guys like you and multifamily to take advantage and offer that to your investors and create value for the residents as well.

Deana Berg [00:13:37]:

Okay, I'm going to shift a little bit and talk about investors because, well, number one, I'm curious where the name saint investment came from. Before I ask my next question.

Nic DeAngelo [00:13:47]:

That's a great question. So most people don't ask this, but I do love. So we reached a point where we were buying a lot of debt and we buy mortgages that usually have some issues, right? Not a lot of issues, very minor issues. But let's take a recent example as we would buy a mortgage from let's say a family that lives in the home that missed say six months of payments during COVID I mean it was Covid, right? The government mandated closures of businesses. So for a family to miss payments during COVID is like, yeah, of course, that's all over the place. The difference with where we're at today is that most banks didn't push for foreclosure, rightfully so. And there's mandates to block that. And there's many great things that if the government shuts down the entire country, they should protect freaking citizens.

Nic DeAngelo [00:14:36]:

Right?

Deana Berg [00:14:37]:

Right.

Nic DeAngelo [00:14:37]:

That said, we step in very like our business model from the roots is to buy mortgages with slight problems. To reach out to the borrowers and to negotiate and set the borrowers up on a loan modification that provides a long term investment for them. Where they're in their homes, they're setting that up in a positive way. So Saint steps in where we really can create a win win. We work with the banks and we say you can't sell this debt as is because you want to sell 10,000 loans at a time. This loan has little problems that make it not pristine. Sterling. It's something subpar in just the rating of this because it has missed payments.

Nic DeAngelo [00:15:16]:

So we'll step in and purchase at a discount. Then we can personally work with the borrower and say, look, what's the problem? Is it the payment amount? Is it. You just can't pay this balance down. How can we help you? We can do things like extend their mortgage, et cetera, to keep them in their home and then provide a return that the third win is our investors make a good return. So between the bank working with people like us that can purchase things and get them off their books so they can get back to lending, which is what they're really great at. And then the borrower, they get to stay in their home and they get this amazing opportunity to keep the house instead of a foreclosure. And then the third is happy investors with a great return. That's where Saint came from is like really just trying to do the right thing and literally create a business model that makes a win win situation.

Nic DeAngelo [00:16:02]:

Because we have been on the distress side and it's been a lot dicier in different models that we've worked with. So we really like this. It makes us feel a little bit better.

Deana Berg [00:16:09]:

I like that. Okay. Speaking of investors, you mentioned before investor sentiment, I think you were talking on a macro level, but I'd love to hear has in your investor base, what is your investor base? How many investors actively do you have?

Nic DeAngelo [00:16:25]:

We've worked with well over 100 investors.

Deana Berg [00:16:27]:

Okay. And do you feel that their sentiment, what they are up for investing in, has changed, or has it stayed the same in the last, let's call it two years?

Nic DeAngelo [00:16:38]:

Oh, my gosh. It's changed drastically over the course of two years, that's for sure. Again, we bought mortgages kind of as a, we really liked the income play of it. We really liked we could purchase at a discount. But we were kind of syndication focused for so long, our investors came to us really and just said, look, we've made a lot of money. We're really happy. We trust you guys. We know you guys.

Nic DeAngelo [00:17:03]:

The issue is, I don't want to give you money for five to ten years. Right. I don't want my money anywhere for five to ten years. What can you guys put together that's a more flexible model, that's more stable, that's safer, that's not, like, market conditions and leasing concerns. And so we went to the drawing board, and that's what we did to put together the income fund that we have. So it was literally a direct response to investors coming to us with that. So the sentiment we've seen, to answer your question directly, is not that there's less money or things are being pulled off of the field and onto the sidelines. We're seeing people trying to shift away from a lot of different things.

Nic DeAngelo [00:17:41]:

I think a lot of people have fat lips from the stock market today. It's booming. But the volatility that got us here today is not lost on a lot of older investors that say, I saw my net worth drop by 46% during.

Deana Berg [00:17:56]:

COVID They didn't forget that 100%.

Nic DeAngelo [00:17:59]:

So a little bit of all the.

Deana Berg [00:18:01]:

Above, I would agree. I mean, just to support what you're saying is that we're seeing some investor, not only investor sentiment, but the waters that we're navigating as investment managers is that we have a lot higher interest rates, at least on the syndication side. So I know you're dealing with different dynamics on the debt side. So as a solution, kind of, we're trying to provide different products, investment products. So you have a wealth generation and a wealth preservation product. It can kind of cater to whatever generation has the stomach for what those things entail. But the wealth preservation really is attractive, I think, to people who have lost money in the syndication world. Their distributions have been paused, they're feeling what the weight feels like to have your noi kind of drop so dramatically.

Deana Berg [00:18:54]:

And so to offer something that has lower risk but potentially lower IRR is still as appealing as what we were offering before. So I think that's probably what you're also experiencing with investor sentiment, plus the fact that you said that a lot of your investors are in the boomer generation.

Nic DeAngelo [00:19:13]:

Absolutely. So it's exactly that. I get asked one of the most common questions. I do take some investor calls because I just want to connect with our kind of bigger investors or talk to new investors that are interested. So on some of those calls, the biggest question I get is, well, so what? You don't think real estate has a lot of legs right now? And I'm like, let me be clear. I'm incredibly bullish on real estate in certain segments. It's certain well chosen asset classes, extremely bullish on certain asset classes, and extremely bullish on long term fixed income plays. I think it's both.

Nic DeAngelo [00:19:52]:

And I think we've learned that that is the balance that we need to see. That's what I'm doing personally. So to me, when I get the question, I go, look, what's your time horizon? Is it, if it's five to ten years and you're working with a really good operator, and they have a long track record and they know what they're doing, then I think that is a great investment to buy into a really good asset. If the time horizon is a lot less and you're a little more scared of the market dynamics overall, then I think fixed income is an interesting approach to look into. So to be clear, I'm bullish on both, but it's really about the investor, where they're at. Our investors, like you said, are a little bit older. Most of them are leaning towards more flexibility with more consistency.

Deana Berg [00:20:34]:

Out of curiosity, what are your hold periods for your industrial projects?

Nic DeAngelo [00:20:38]:

Our industrial projects are the syndication model, so they're five to ten years. For our income fund, it's twelve months. And after that people can get their money back in 90 days. So we can say, look, you'll make a lot more over here, most likely on the syndication side, but over here you can get your money back in 90 days. So it's really a barbell approach, it's adjusted return.

Deana Berg [00:20:58]:

That's right. And I think something you said in the previous episode, too, is just realizing in the last real estate cycle that we're no longer in, there were some serious tailwinds that we all benefited from, and I think it caused us to forget the level of risk that we actually were taking, and so we benefited from that, and yet we were kind of oblivious to the risk. Well, now the interest rates are up, and so what's penciling is a little different. And so if we can mitigate risk and some offer different investment opportunities on that risk reward spectrum, I think it's adding value to our investors as well.

Nic DeAngelo [00:21:32]:

Absolutely. The rate rebalancing will be an interesting trend that we'll see.

Deana Berg [00:21:38]:

I think would love to hear kind of one of your lessons learned. You said you've been in this business for 20 years. You got in using scrappy tactics, which I love, but yet are classically trained. And if you want to find out more about that, listen to the previous episode. Working with family offices, institutional type capital. Tell me an example of a deal that you were very scared wasn't going to work and how it turned around, or just give us a story that we can learn from, from your mistakes.

Nic DeAngelo [00:22:11]:

Oh, my gosh. I love seeing the worst because it teaches you about the best. I really believe that I could talk about a lot of bloody moments where I got a black eye or fat lip from the market or from different things that went on. I would say the number one in the more recent era, in the more recent era, the number one, most difficult time that we went through was during COVID We hit a point where I think at the time, we had, I don't know, 70 different tenants, which, for industrial, we have other things in there. We have some retail. We had some mixed use in there, but 70 tenants. And we reached a point where our overall accounts receivable, meaning people that were late. Our aging report, our aging amounts reports were in the seven figures.

Nic DeAngelo [00:23:05]:

Multiple seven figures. That's a scary place to be. Across the portfolio. I mean, these equaled multiple percentages of our overall assets under management. So these are scary numbers that when you understand the real, true depth of what this looked like. And on our side, we had to have a lot of hard discussions, just like everyone during that period of time. But the biggest thing that we did was, how do we turn a really bad situation into something that we could benefit from. So we really looked across the board, everybody saying that the sky is falling, their business is going to fail.

Nic DeAngelo [00:23:40]:

And so we just said, look, the two questions that we have are how do we work directly to make a good out of a bad? Kind of the Saint idea? Right. How do we turn this around in a way that actually benefits us and the tenant? And then the second is, how do we shift into the market demographic? How do we shift into the market instead of against the market? How do we go with the tide instead of against the tide, which some.

Deana Berg [00:24:09]:

Could be considered even riskier. But I think if you're on the inside, you know what you have to do.

Nic DeAngelo [00:24:14]:

Absolutely. The first is, how did we turn something bad into something good? We reached out to every tenant, every single tenant that said, we're having this issue. We're not going to be paying rent. Screw you. Or can you help us? It was a wide spectrum. We just reached out and just said, look, what are you asking for? We're here. Pens down. We're not in collections.

Nic DeAngelo [00:24:36]:

We're just asking you. What are you asking us for? What specifically? Right. We need help with rent. Okay. What's that look like? Right. Well, we don't want to pay rent right now because this. And there's all these scary things and, hey, we agree. Are you asking for three months? You ask them for six months.

Nic DeAngelo [00:24:53]:

What are you asking for? So what we did was we worked with every single tenant that was asking, and we said, show us your financials. Don't be full of shit. First off, right? Let's make sure. Excuse my friend. Don't be full of it. Show us your financials. Sorry, I don't know what the policy is. So show us your financials.

Nic DeAngelo [00:25:11]:

Don't bs us. And if you're not full of crap, then we'll work with you and we'll put together a game plan, but we're going to renew your lease. So what we did was we said, look, we'll give you three, six, nine months of below market lower rent, no rent, whatever it is, but you're going to extend your lease by three, four, five years. So what that does for all of us is it says, look, you're either going to fail or you're not. You're worried about that? So are we. We're betting on your success together. So what that did was it gave us a huge front side, a huge backside, where we loaded a relationship together, and we created the largest leasing year that we've ever had at St with upside, with good increases on rent. All the stuff we said, look, if you survive, we want to be with you on that journey, and we want a long relationship.

Nic DeAngelo [00:26:00]:

And if you don't, we're here to work with you along the way to make sure we do everything that we can to make sure you do survive. So we had a massive leasing year. Great beneficial leases for everybody. A lot of great terms there. The second thing we did was we started selling off assets that we really dug into the economics, like I said earlier, and we said, what assets have legs here over the next decade and what don't? Not Covid decade, right? And we sold off. I mean, we went through a year, 18 months of the largest 1031 exchange situation that we've ever had. And our acquisitions guy, a family member, my dad works with us on acquisitions. He's a killer, right? He's like the best deals.

Nic DeAngelo [00:26:41]:

Best deal guy I've ever met in my life. And so he was finding deals, we were working on deals. We had great things going at a time where everybody else was having a problem. We were finding deals that were fantastic.

Deana Berg [00:26:52]:

You have italian bled. I'm sure he was at the negotiating table just crushing it. Right?

Nic DeAngelo [00:26:56]:

We try to make everybody feel like they won, I'll just put it that way. But not easy to deal with. We are not known as the easiest buyer sometimes, but we always have the cash and we always perform. So that's the balancing. Yeah.

Deana Berg [00:27:09]:

I love the story. I love the story because it really was integris, your desire to be a saint, to kind of create a win win. So you're winning in terms of the bottom is not falling out and just losing rent or your tenants and just running them off, because then not only are you out those months of rent, you have a vacancy that you're probably not going to be able to fill in the very near future. So love the creativity. That's brilliant. Curious. Then how did those tenants respond? What was the relationship like? Did some of them just say, screw you, and they left anyway? What percentage stayed and kind of did the workout with you?

Nic DeAngelo [00:27:47]:

So, yes, all of it. But what I'll say is this, when they said, screw you, we knew they weren't real. Does that make sense? So it's like at that time in retail, I was connected to the retail industry quite a bit. For many years, we've gone away from that. I still have dear friends there, the retail industry. Something weird happened previously. Class A retail and class C retail. It was like everyone frowned on class C and everyone won class A.

Nic DeAngelo [00:28:15]:

What happened was all the class A retailers sent legal letters to landlords and they said, we're not paying, and if you have a problem, come sue us. Right? Those were the cheesecake factories, the tutor times. Big national brands. But the class C tenants, the ones in working class markets, you said, look, and we have a lot of those. We just reaching out said, look, we want to work with you. We're trying to help you. If you keep in touch, we can make this work. Class C retail was one of the shining stars of the COVID era.

Deana Berg [00:28:47]:

So much irony in that. There's so much irony. Everyone is like, only lease to reliable tenants who are class A, who have the backing. And what you're saying completely debunks that in this situation. Phenomenal.

Nic DeAngelo [00:29:00]:

So when people send us legal letters, we're like, come on, guys, we feel very comfortable in court. We don't like it. But if that's how you're going to set the table, then we accept your relationship terms, right? So the people that reached out and wanted to work with us, we gave amazing terms. Like, we did everything we could to keep them in. Their success rate was probably 80, 90% amazing. 80 90% of our businesses likely survived Covid. Whereas the top guys that were jerking us around and fighting us, we just said, okay, then it's every dollar and you're going to be able to navigate by just jerking us around with some lawsuit stuff. But we're going to collect on you guys because we came to the table respectfully.

Nic DeAngelo [00:29:41]:

So we got 90 plus percent of our collections also from those people. So overall, we navigated that as a tough time, but that was by far. And we didn't miss a single payment to investors during that period. So you want to talk about a dark period where it was like a lot of things could have went south. That was one of the worst periods we've ever had. And I'm really proud of our team, I'm really proud of our acquisitions, I'm proud of our asset management that we were able to turn that around. So that was a tough period.

Deana Berg [00:30:10]:

Wow. Congratulations for the Saint like workout. Love it. True to your name, tell us a little bit about what you do in your spare time when you're not doing acquisitions and managing properties and doing workouts with tenants.

Nic DeAngelo [00:30:24]:

Yeah. So I have three kids, so I work a lot of hours, but huge italian family, I spend a ton of time with my kids, try to get them in sports. I grew up fighting, so my kids are in jujitsu and they do like, little soccer stuff and they do all this. I'm just trying to be as much of super dad as I can be on the schedule and try and get the gym in every day and do that as well. Honestly, we have a very streamlined life at this point, because if you don't with three kids, then you're going to lose your mind. So it's the same thing. I hit the gym in the morning. I'm in the office for as long as I can be, and I spend my nights with my kids and my weekends as much as I can.

Nic DeAngelo [00:31:04]:

So not a whole lot of extracurriculars, but I read a ton, voraciously, aggressively. I love books. I love education.

Deana Berg [00:31:13]:

Okay, top book that you've read in recent months.

Nic DeAngelo [00:31:17]:

Let's see. Right now we're talking a lot. Our team's grown a lot this year. Our team's grown by 20, 30% this year. So it's a lot of culture. So we're dealing with a lot of cultural issues and incentive systems and things like that. We have a virtual team, so we're leaning into that quite a bit. And then if you want to talk about high level books, I spent a lot of time researching just the best books of all time because I was like, I've read the same crap over and over.

Nic DeAngelo [00:31:47]:

That's like the newer stuff. What are the ultimate classics? So I just read Stephen Hawking. He has a book called the big Questions of the universe. He talks about is there a God? What are black holes? Is time travel possible? Just like weird, dorky Sci-Fi stuff that I geek out. I'm reading. I'm trying to read the ultimate best books of all time just to fill my head with the best ideas. So as we go into life, that you have a good focal point. So I spend a lot of time on that, too.

Nic DeAngelo [00:32:14]:

Education.

Deana Berg [00:32:15]:

Love that. Well, how can people find you? Nic?

Nic DeAngelo [00:32:19]:

The best way that we can add value to the audience and give them more information on economics and strategy, et cetera, is@stinvestment.com slash resources. We have a ton of webinars that we do regularly where we break down step by step investment strategies and a ton of economic analysis that they'll find interesting.

Deana Berg [00:32:38]:

Fantastic. I'm going to find my way to your website and benefit those myself. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Really grateful to learn from you. You've added a ton of value.

Nic DeAngelo [00:32:48]:

Dina, thank you so much. I had a ton of fun and I'm excited to maybe be on in the future. We can pick the conversation back up. Thank you for being with us again today. I hope that you have learned a lot from the show. Don't forget to like and subscribe. I hope you're telling your friends about the real estate syndication show and how they can also build wealth in real estate. You can also go to lifebridgecapital.com and start investing today.