WS1889 Your First Investment in Senior Living | Highlights Vinney Chopra

Welcome to today's highlight episode, where host Whitney Sewell sits down with the highly respected real estate investor and industry expert, Vinney Chopra. In this episode, Vinney shares compelling highlights from his remarkable real estate journey over the past two years. He offers firsthand insights into his transition from starting with a humble duplex in Odessa, Texas to achieving an impressive portfolio worth over a billion dollars in assets under management (AUM). Vinney's captivating stories and experiences are sure to captivate and inspire both seasoned and aspiring real estate professionals.

During the episode, Vinney delves into his pivot towards senior assisted living and memory care facilities, shedding light on the immense opportunities within this niche market. Listeners can gain invaluable insights from Vinney's expertise as he shares practical advice for passive investors and operators considering venturing into the senior living space.

With a wealth of knowledge and hands-on experience, Vinney provides valuable tips and strategies that will resonate with anyone looking to advance their real estate investment endeavors. Be prepared to be immersed in a wealth of practical wisdom as Vinney shares his wisdom and industry insights, making this episode a must-listen for anyone seeking to elevate their real estate investment strategies.


Tune in to the full episodes to learn more from Vinney Chopra about his incredible journey in real estate syndication, his transition to senior living investments, and his insights on the industry. Click the links below to listen to the full episodes and gain valuable knowledge and inspiration for your real estate endeavors.


https://lifebridgecapital.com/2023/09/25/why-you-should-consider-investing-in-senior-living-vinney-chopra/

https://lifebridgecapital.com/2023/09/26/how-to-get-started-in-senior-living-investments-vinney-chopra/

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Transcript

Whitney Sewell [00:00:02]:
This is your daily real estate syndication show. I'm your host, Whitney Sewell. Today we've packed a number of shows together to give you some highlights. I know you're going to enjoy the show. Thank you for being with us today. Welcome back to the show. Honored to have you on again. It's been two years since your last appearance on the show, so looking forward to catching up with you.

Vinney Chopra [00:00:25]:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Whitney, it's such a pleasure. And congratulations on the successes you've had since you and I have known each other. And I'm so tickled, so tickled to be back to add value to your audiences.

Whitney Sewell [00:00:39]:
Vinnie, let's jump in. I know that you've accomplished a lot, right, in many years of real estate, and you've grown a large business and just respect in this industry. But I want to catch up with what's happened with your business over the last two years, and let's dive in. I know the listeners are going to learn a lot from you today.

Vinney Chopra [00:01:01]:
Sure. Actually, Whitney, if I may say, I started with the duplex. Everybody listening to me today, we still own the duplex, my wife and I, in Odessa, Texas, and we bought 14 units for $180,000. Of course, we sold it later on, four years later for 380. I hear that same property, 14 unit, is about 1.3 million. Wow. It's mind boggling. But the power of syndication, helping to raise money with friends and family and things, which a lot of people do now, that has been the real ticket for me as growing my portfolio from that small duplex all the way to a billion dollar, more than a billion dollar in Aum, buying $180,000 property to 53 million, $63 million deals, which I've done in the last three, four years.

Vinney Chopra [00:02:00]:
In last three, four years, I've not bought much, by the way. I've been selling. I've done about 40 syndications, approximately. That means 40 transactions smaller to much, much larger in my career. And then I've sold them also quite a lot. I have maybe close to 400 million in my portfolio left now, but they are really good B class, B plus in nice areas.

Whitney Sewell [00:02:29]:
Okay, so you sold quite a few, which I think it was great timing, by the way. You sold quite a few, but you held on to some of the B class assets. Maybe give a couple of examples. I know we're going to jump on into where you all are at now as an organization in your focus now, but why did you hold on to those B class?

Vinney Chopra [00:02:48]:
That's a good one. Very good one. Actually, one I bought in Covid in Austin, Texas, 319 units, I think it's called near the domain. And actually there was an off market deal. I loved it, 34,000,750. It's worth almost 60 million right now because the interest rate I locked in ten year fixed was at 3.74% assumable. So that's a good one, brother. The other one I'm thinking of is the Princeton park over there in Melbourne.

Vinney Chopra [00:03:21]:
I bought it in 2019, December. What? I bought two that year. Only just two. One was $52 million deal in Orlando. I sold it for 64 last year. I sold that off. And then this one, I bought it for 35 million with my partner. And it's worth right at 50 million.

Vinney Chopra [00:03:43]:
Let's say then the one we bought, 2021, again during COVID only one transaction was in Tennessee. So that one I'm selling right now, it was a small 107 units. It came on the table. We bought it, 12,000,005. We are selling for 17 million in just two years. So not too bad. Finding the right place, right locations, right markets is the key. As you teach and I teach.

Whitney Sewell [00:04:17]:
Yeah, it sounds like you mentioned a couple of interest rates there and whatnot. It sounds like because of proper financing and just nice assets are in a good buy, it's worth holding on to them potentially for a while. It's hard to get financing right now, isn't it? That makes sense. But right now, Vinny, you kind of pivoted the focus of the business, right? Or what you all are buying now. Maybe share a little bit about that and let's dive into that.

Vinney Chopra [00:04:43]:
Love to, love to. About four years back, I pivoted a little bit because as I became, I just turned 71, by the way, seven.

Whitney Sewell [00:04:51]:
Congratulations.

Vinney Chopra [00:04:53]:
Thank you. Over the weekend, Virgo. And exciting part is that when I started looking demographical shifts about six years back, I knew silver tsunami is the phenomenon that is going to catch on all over. And what that means is 10,000 baby boomers are turning 65, becoming 65 every day, every day in USA. It will keep on going for many, many years. Actually, the last, I think baby boomers will be turning 65 in 2031. What? So there is a huge need for seniors and demographical shifts. They are moving from the cold environment into the more warmer states.

Vinney Chopra [00:05:41]:
Florida, Texas, Arizona, all these nice places. So that was my said, you know, I've been chasing workforce housing. Now I can chase retirement where they want to be, as far away from workforce as possible. So that's a new thing, which really I pivoted about three, four years back and got a very good partner. And we are building senior assisted living. One level, ground up with amenities like, of course, dining hall, restaurant inside, and then of course, the library, spa and the grand piano and the meeting rooms and all these and exercise, all that stuff. Right? But that's the one which I've pivoted into multifamily assistant living and memory care. There is residential side too, by the way.

Vinney Chopra [00:06:37]:
Oh, by the way, I may like to share with your audience my book on senior living investing made easy, just like my apartment syndication made easy book. I just kept that made easy theme. And that's being launched in a month or so. It's 440 pages. And Kim Lisa Taylor helped me also, my good friend Kim Lisa Taylor's SEC attorney, top attorney. She did 26 of my syndication packets, her company did, and she helped me also in that book. So I want to give thank you to her.

Whitney Sewell [00:07:13]:
That's awesome. I was telling you this, we were talking about before we started recording, but it's kind of an asset class. I feel like that hasn't had much glamour, right? It hasn't been talked about a whole lot until I've just heard a little bit more and more just recently. But I feel like a book like that would be very helpful, right. For investors who are operators and passives as well, that it's like, well, is this something I should invest know? You feel like I don't know a whole lot about it, right? To even call the operator and ask know or talk to them about the investment. I don't know enough about senior living to feel comfortable with know. Is there maybe a few things you could help, say, the passive investor, Vinny, just to know or to think through or things they should ask about when maybe assessing investing in a senior living facility.

Vinney Chopra [00:08:02]:
Love to. Love know. Whitney, I would definitely say it's very similar to asking syndicators know operators, we call them about their background, about what their track record is and how they go about finding these locations for senior assisted living, which is very different, way different than the workforce housing, I would say definitely. And I explain those things in my book also very succinctly. And then the graphs, so many graphs I put in the book, which take you through the whole spectrum, how the whole shortage is there and how senior living, if run properly, makes more profits, more money than even multifamily. Wow. Because the same unit, which we can rent it for like $1,300 a month, the senior living assistance and caring and everything, and having a nurse there it goes for $5,000 per month. So that's like three times the rent coming in.

Vinney Chopra [00:09:13]:
Of course, there are more expenses, too, which I explain in the book. Also. We have the three meals a day, snacks. We got the chef, we got executive director, we got business director. Then we have caregivers, 24 hours operation. So it's a real estate. You could own the real estate or lease it, and it's a business also. And there are really fine companies out there, third party, by the way, who do these kind of things also.

Vinney Chopra [00:09:44]:
Like, in my case, we've been doing, my daughter and I and our partner have been managing them, but our new growth will be coming in, working with third party management companies, giving them 3%, just like multifamily, same way you are able to give 3% or so, or three and a half percent, so that they are able to manage your asset rightly. Because having the personnel in the senior living is the main thing. Having the right people, because you want to give the best of the best structure and the real product is giving the dignity, respect, and the caring for our seniors. And they could be anywhere from 79, 78 years to 103 years, like in our centers.

Whitney Sewell [00:10:37]:
My grandfather passed just this past year, and he was 102. And my grandmother, at 95, is still alive. Wow. Thankfully, she's still able to be at home, believe it or not. But if she had to go into someplace like that, or even a parent, the care right is just crucial, right? Especially for the family member bringing their parent or loved one to a facility like that.

Vinney Chopra [00:11:04]:
Totally. If they could stay at home, they're very fortunate to have the family and the support system like you have and your siblings, which is fabulous. The best place is home, definitely. But you're right, when one of the spouses passes away, then the life starts going ill down, or somebody has a slip and fall, things like that. And if they cannot get care at home, then they move into, of course, assisted senior livings and memory cares, dementia and everything. But again, there are other communities, like retirement homes and 55 plus communities. Those are senior living, too, but we are not into that yet. We are just in the middle part, which is assisted living and memory care, which is state licensed.

Vinney Chopra [00:11:55]:
And then on the right side of the whole spectrum are the rehab centers, hospitals, all that. That's much more bigger with doctors, medical equipment, medical beds, all that. So we are not into that. That's in itself a very big, very complicated business.

Whitney Sewell [00:12:15]:
Decipher that again there. I just want to make sure I understood that. So, like, you all are in assisted living and memory care, but there's not an age that determines that. Or this is mostly just because they need the help. Or what kind of determines that versus the other? You were talking.

Vinney Chopra [00:12:35]:
Sure. Whitney. There are adLs. Activities of daily living. We call it activities of daily living. There are lots of them. But if one of the impairment is that somebody cannot cook. A senior cannot cook.

Vinney Chopra [00:12:50]:
Or they cannot take bath. Or they can't really take medicines on their own. Or they cannot walk or drive. So if there are three impairments. Then they qualify to be in the assisted living. So that's how we take it. We also take independent. Also, if there is husband, wife, or significant other.

Vinney Chopra [00:13:12]:
If one of the person is independent, don't need any assistant. But the other person does. And they want to come into our centers, then we let them come. So they're one in the same room, two beds. Or one big bed or like that. But most of my centers are about 80 to about 120 units. So we don't do too many big ones. 400, 300, like that.

Vinney Chopra [00:13:39]:
We want to give the quality of service.

Whitney Sewell [00:13:41]:
Yeah, I love that. I love the thought, too, of taking the husband and wife. Right. Even if just. Even if it was just one that needs it. Because, man, that'd be horrible to have to separate them, right. In the last years of life. I love that that's an option, right.

Whitney Sewell [00:13:57]:
As I'm getting older. Vinny, I'm glad that's an. But that's awesome. So I love the focus, right. On the senior and the care. No doubt about it. I wouldn't expect it any other way from you. But what about you mentioned you all are doing ground up.

Whitney Sewell [00:14:14]:
So why ground up, say, versus buying preexisting? Or are you all buying preexisting as well?

Vinney Chopra [00:14:20]:
Very good point. Very good point. The ground up is taking much longer. Because we buy the land. And say that in six months we'll close on the land. With another extension of 30 day or 90 days again. Because we want to make sure we get the permits. And the whole changing of all these policies.

Vinney Chopra [00:14:42]:
We have to go through so many different studies and everything. So we are able to buy the land with our rendition of the renderings and everything. But then it takes about twelve months to 14 months to build on it. So it's a process of nine months getting the permits. Or twelve months getting the permits. Plus another 14 months. That's two years and two months already. Then you need another year to stabilize it.

Vinney Chopra [00:15:09]:
So it's a long process. You're so right about it. But by having a raw. You could do so many great things with the land. You could do all the different amenities you want to put at the right places and the sunrooms and have the meeting rooms and all the different things which I put the courtyards with walkways and all. And then of course spa and salons and meeting rooms and like I said, big dining hall, library, movie theater, we put them all in there. It's a multifamily. It's a multifamily which I know we just put in a twist of senior living into multifamily and now we are going two story also.

Vinney Chopra [00:15:53]:
So that way there is a big elevator and so on. But you are right, we are also looking into converting some suites hotels, because if they are very nicely built and they are old, we have to renovate them anyway, bring to code, put new elevators in there and then we could change suites. Hotels have bigger spaces, bigger rooms. We kind of like those. So converting them or even converting some office spaces, again, it all depends. Shopping centers or strip shopping centers will be ideal too because there you are able to have them confirm and change things on the ground floor to be able to. So there is a mixture, right. Whichever location needs to really do a good feasibility study or get it done from a professional who looks at the demographics, looks at the incoming, outgoing, all that looks@the.net.

Vinney Chopra [00:16:53]:
Worth of seniors in the age group because there are different studies done for senior living as compared to an apartment complex in a workforce housing. Yeah.

Whitney Sewell [00:17:05]:
Wow. It's interesting. A minute ago you had mentioned obviously converting the suite hotels, potentially doing that. You also mentioned potentially even some office space. You see that as maybe a reliable source of some properties potentially that may work. I mean it's so difficult, right? Depending on the location. I know, but man, there's probably some office space for sale.

Vinney Chopra [00:17:29]:
Yeah, I know. It's amazing with this working from home or just coming to offices twice a week maybe, let's say lots of office spaces are open. I've not looked into that lately, but no, definitely. And the beauty is that the senior living, what we are finding in the demographical shifts, lots of seniors love to be near to their siblings, to their children and their grandchildren. So actually lots and lots of openings are coming up all throughout the USA where seniors, this is their last maybe 5710 years of life left. The golden years, I call it. So they want to be near to their family.

Whitney Sewell [00:18:18]:
What would you say is for the passive investor listening? And this would apply, I guess for the operators as well. But what's the biggest risk for senior living, right? For investing in senior living.

Vinney Chopra [00:18:28]:
Oh, investing in senior living, definitely. The big thing is you want to make sure that these are not your last dollars. I mean, you want to put the money. It's a three to five years spectrum, sometimes even seven years spectrum. So you want to make sure you're using your retirement money if you are self directed or your cash. The other part is you got to definitely be looking at what insurances the sponsor has, what's their track record and how would they deal with who's going to manage the asset. That's a big one. Not only just the real estate, it's also operation.

Vinney Chopra [00:19:05]:
So that's a big thing also. Very huge thing, right?

Whitney Sewell [00:19:10]:
Yeah, no doubt about it. Is there anything specific that you would ask for, say for the third party manager? Let's say as a passive investor, if I was looking to invest, anything that I would ask for concerning the property manager themselves that you wouldn't maybe normally know about like multifamily or anything different there.

Vinney Chopra [00:19:31]:
Very good point, Whitney. I mean, most of us sponsors over the last 16 years, I've done 40 deals. But you are right, the investors should ask who's going to manage. In my case, I was vertically integrated, 158 people on my staff every two weeks, right? I was doing the payroll. Never missed a beat. But then we were having a huge billion dollar portfolio. Now we have gone down, so we use third party now. Bell Partners, RaM Partners, Greystones.

Vinney Chopra [00:20:06]:
Nice RPM. All these big companies, they have billions of dollars under their management. We look at and interview their regionals and their property management, all that. So it's very good for investors to ask, please ask, because it's not just the real estate that you are buying, it's what you do with the real estate to bring the cash flow and the value add and the increase in NoI. It happens after the keys are given in the sponsor's hand, I call it. All these projections are hanky dory. But who's going to manage that asset is very important. Very important.

Vinney Chopra [00:20:47]:
And how the cost cutting will come, how the business plans will be instituted and implemented, how we're going to be getting the reports on everything, transparency, all those, right?

Whitney Sewell [00:21:00]:
For sure, yeah, no doubt. I just appreciate you encouraging listeners to ask, right, who's managing it? Maybe this is a good time, too. One thing you mentioned before we even started recording, you said, I'm not the expert and I would beg to differ. By the way, Vinny is definitely an expert in these spaces in commercial real estate. But you said you build teams of experts, right? And that's how you're doing this so well and moving so fast maybe how have you found some of the experts to bring onto your team?

Vinney Chopra [00:21:31]:
I appreciate that very much and many people have asked me that. My main thinking is you send out Law of Attraction, law of abundance thinking of course Mindset is so important. I've been sending signals out with intentions that I want to find somebody who would be able to help me to get me to the next level. So finding strategic partner is huge. Cybersecurity company for example I'm an angel investor in that one. I found a great CEO who took one company to Nasdaq and sold it and that was his passion to start a cybersecurity company. I'm so happy to say that in four years it's becoming a very big company now cloud, Defense, AI then I wanted to have in the senior living I partnered with my partner who came from another country and built like for nine years senior assisted livings, many of them like 27 to 30 of them. So I partnered with them.

Vinney Chopra [00:22:36]:
Now hospitality is my other where I'm very focused right now. Also along with senior assisted living, hospitality had gone down in the COVID nobody was traveling, afraid and everything. Now it's back up and even higher than what it was in the COVID time. People are going out, the ADRs every daily rates are growing. So what I'm trying to say is found another strategic partner with my partners where we are doing this fund, 100 million dollar fund right now for hospitality alone and we found a strategic partner sending out signals again. You come and you meet and you go further and you further then people find out you like to be in that field, they introduce you to other people. That's how the work is, it's not a solo game. I always say commercial investing is a team support and I'm so happy to meet with the hospitality partners who have been in business for over 25 years who have built 78 hotels, Marriott, Hyatt's, ihgs.

Vinney Chopra [00:23:45]:
Just the name brand, not the non name brand, just the name brand ones. So I'm very excited about that which is again hotel Whitney is like an apartment, it's a unit upstairs but the tenant or the resident I call it, they pay at the counter for four days, five days. I like extended stays in my side but they pay up front and then they go and have a great experience in the room or the suite or like that. So it's like a multifamily to another level. So hospitality also fits my thinking and then the thing is I'm not locked in with a lease of six months or a year, which is in multifamily. But in this one, the ADR average daily rate is daily rate and it's five different rates changes in a night. If the demand is more, the rates automatically go up through artificial intelligence. So it's amazing how similarity it is, which we are doing in apartments also.

Vinney Chopra [00:24:51]:
In our apartments, we use the services where depending on the demand of that area where the resident is looking at, the lease amounts go up every day, up and down. So it's amazing how this whole world is going to change. AI is going to transform every industry.

Whitney Sewell [00:25:14]:
So make sure you book your rooms way in advance, right?

Vinney Chopra [00:25:18]:
That's so true. Don't wait until the last moment.

Whitney Sewell [00:25:23]:
I just appreciate your willingness to do that and share what you're learning, Vinny, and teaching us so much. Tell the listeners how they can get in touch with you, Vinny, again. But also learn about your book about senior living as well.

Vinney Chopra [00:25:34]:
Thank you. My book should be launched in about few days, actually 440 pages. I put a lot of heart and soul. Two years it took me to write that one. Then my positive book is relaunching again also on Amazon. It was a top seller before. Hopefully all my readers will love the new content in my second edition make it top seller also. And my third book, which was the first one in 2019 that I published, was apartment syndication made easy.

Vinney Chopra [00:26:03]:
Of course, my podcast apartment syndication made easy. Every week I also have two shows now that I do. One is abundance mindset with Vinny Chopra live show at 09:00 a.m. On Thursday mornings I do. And we make reads and videos and everything. Then I do a show, Vinnie and Bo show on Fridays live also every week. So there are several place and I'm on Twitter, I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, TikTok everywhere.

Whitney Sewell [00:26:38]:
Thank you for being with us again today. I hope that you have learned a lot from the show. Don't forget to like and subscribe. I hope you're telling your friends about the real estate syndication show and how they can also build wealth in real estate. You can also go to lifebridgecapital.com and start investing today.