WS1911 Navigating The Current Real Estate Market | Highlights Dan French

Welcome back to the Real Estate Syndication Show. I'm your host, Whitney Sewell, and in today's highlight episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with Dan French, a seasoned real estate professional with nearly two decades of experience. Dan is the Managing Director of ATX Acquisitions and CEO at ResProp Management, with an impressive track record of managing over $2 billion in assets and operating 15,000 apartment units.

Throughout the episode, Dan shared his journey in real estate, starting at the age of 25 with small deals and growing into a significant player in the industry. He candidly discussed the challenges he and his business partner, Pete Rex, faced during the 2008 financial crisis, including being overleveraged and having insufficient capital reserves. These experiences taught them valuable lessons about downside protection and the importance of having a strong team.

Dan emphasized the significance of building an A-class team and how their shared mission and integrity have been crucial to their success. He also touched on the current market conditions, including the bid-ask spread issue, and how his team is preparing for potential opportunities with a general partner fund that allows investors to either choose individual deals or invest in a diversified portfolio.

Click here to listen to the full episodes:

https://lifebridgecapital.com/2023/10/27/tips-for-better-downside-protection-dan-french/

https://lifebridgecapital.com/2023/10/30/market-trends-you-need-to-be-aware-of-dan-french/

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Transcript

Whitney Sewell: This is your daily real estate syndication show. I'm your host, Whitney Sewell. Today, we've packed a number of shows together to give you some highlights. I know you're going to enjoy the show. Thank you for being with us today. Today, our guest is Dan French, nearly 20 years of experience in transacting and operating real estate. He's managing director of ATX acquisitions and CEO at ResProp Management. $2 billion plus in AUM with a history of operating 15,000 apartment units, sold 80 plus properties, returning nearly $1 billion to investors and partners just recently. And so it just, man, this guy's got a ton of experience. They have a team that's just, yeah, a lot of great experience. They've done some great things over the last 15 to 20 years and really plan the market well, which you will hear about. But you're going to spend some time with Dan over the next two days. And he's gonna do a series with us and dive into I mean, a number of things that I wish I had known, you know, years ago, right. And he just was very transparent, even some challenging times that he shared about, you know, through the first part of their business, right. But the lessons learned were so valuable, right. And you're going to hear that today from Dan. Dan, welcome to the show. I'm looking forward to diving in on a number of topics that I know you are an expert in. And just so the listeners know, we're going to do a series of shows with Dan. And so we can have more time to talk in depth about a few things that I know that you're going to want to hear about. Dan, give us a little bit about your background, getting into commercial real estate. What does that look like? Maybe even a couple, a couple of things for you that were crucial in your success.

Dan French: Whitney, I appreciate you having me on. It's, um, It's a pleasure and I hope to add some value to your audience here today. And I do want to say I'm a fan of the show. I'm also a big fan of your mission. It's very inspiring to me, actually, that you're putting some of your personal profits back into something you believe in, which is helping folks adopt when they're having some troubles there. So that rings very true to me as people in my life have had some similar troubles. So I appreciate what you do there. But my journey in real estate really began actually when I was about 25 years old. And it was fun to get started. I've been with the same business partner. His name is Pete Rex. Great guy, great friend. Someone I grew up with from the time I was seven years old. And myself and his brother and Pete went into real estate investing. And that's how we got started, buying really small deals. And before you know it, we had a bunch of them. And this is about 05, 2005. So to put that into context, totally different world and different environment for any folks that have been investing that long. You might recall some of this stuff, but, but, you know, we, we were kind of working class background trying to rise up and create hopefully some value in the world. I always thought it would be a long-term investment and long-term payout. And I was willing to, to kind of delay the marshmallows and make it happen. But I didn't know it would be so active. Really, for a couple of years from 2005 to 2007, we felt like we were on top of the world. Our unit count, although small by today's measure, seemed very high to me at least. I was pumped up and I thought we were off to the races. Of course, looking back, we did a lot of things wrong. We were over leveraged. We didn't have sufficient capital reserves. We didn't have a lot of operating knowledge. And so when the tough times came in late 07, in 2008, we were one of the first groups, you know, if you can call it a group, we were a small partnership, you know, we were in trouble really fast. So we spent many years battling through all of that from 08 to 2011. And we avoided the worst of it. But it was a trying time. And it really, it challenged our friendship, it challenged our partnership. a whole thing almost went up in smoke. It was very, very stressful. So that's my background and maybe I'll pause there. That's how I got started, let's say.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, that's incredible. A couple things I wanted to mention there. Obviously, your partnership, is it Peter, did you say? Peter Rex, yeah. How did you all meet again? And what did that look like to say, you know what, I get questions all the time about partnerships. And I talk about it often about my partnership, and how I was asked to be partners with lots of people and said no, you know, because I just didn't feel it was a good fit, right. And then man, I found my partner now, my business partner, I I just knew I knew we had complementary skill sets. We had so much in common. You know, there was it was just different. Right. I knew that it was a good fit and even did a lot of things to kind of test the waters before we permanently said we're going to partner, you know. So anyway, I've talked about that often on the show and but we'd love to hear. how you knew that Peter, you know, was going to be a good partner, or maybe you said you all knew each other beforehand and some of that. But talk through that just just briefly, at least, because I know the listeners, there are some of them are looking for partners as well, right?

Dan French: Yeah, I'm very happy to go into this and maybe provide some value to your audience. I would say, number one, as a piece of advice, you know, go, you know, make sure what you're saying is is really going to happen before you dive in with someone make sure you know a lot about them and maybe test it out right there their character, how they handle pressure. Because when good when the times are good everything's easy you know it's when times get challenging that you really find out who's. made of the right stuff, you know? So getting back to how I met Pete and everything like that, I was born in New York City, you know, in the Bronx in New York City. My family, when I was seven years old, this is the 80s, they kind of moved up to the suburban area of New York City metropolitan area to, you know, do the American dream thing, provide better opportunities for me. And I was lucky enough to meet Pete and his brother Rob as soon as I moved up there through sports and through Catholic education and stuff like this. So we just became super tight as kind of family units is getting to know each other. And that persisted over time, even though I went to separate high school, separate college as Pete. But getting out of my undergrad, I felt something that I believe is very durable across the globe, which is getting access to real estate investments or buying real estate is like a tried and true way to rise up, create value, create wealth for yourself. or maybe if you have investors, same thing. So when Pete, Pete was the one that actually approached me with this idea to go into real estate. And the reason why I said yes, basically immediately, and Pete and his brother Rob, was because number one, integrity. I thought that was a key thing. So these are people that I know, good times, bad times, they're gonna do the right thing. If the lights are on or no one's looking, it doesn't matter, it's the same thing. They're gonna be terrific people, that I would trust with my, you know, with everything. So that was number one, trust and integrity. Number two was drive. Yeah, I just knew Pete from the time I had ever met him was so driven, so on the ball, really wanted to make a difference, kind of light the world on fire, this type. So to me, those are two very key ingredients to a partnership or to a potential partner.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. There's some great advice there. And a couple things I wanted to reiterate that you said, because I thought it was really good. You know, it's like, have they been under pressure? And I maybe I'm adding a little bit here, but have they been under pressure and performed before? And has their character been tested? you know, like in some way, is there a way for you to see that or know that? And it seems like you knew the, you know, you knew enough about Peter and his brother to know these things. So it sounds like there was already a very high level of trust there and you knew they were driven and probably because of the history with them, right? Or things you already, you know, so anyway, I think it's great advice and it's really good. Another thing I wanted to hit on, you know, the 2008, you said, you know, there's three things and correct me if I didn't get these correct, but you said low reserves, overleveraged and ultimately little knowledge or experience, right, by that time. And I just wonder, too, because obviously where we're at now, you know, in this market cycle and what's some of the things that are happening, you know, how is that different now? So I just it's so important, especially for you all that went through that. how do you look at deals differently now? Or what is the reserves or leverage, you know, look like now on deals compared to maybe what you were doing then? Or did that change? Or what does that look like?

Dan French: So you all aren't in that same predicament again, you know, the key thing I think is, is the downside protection, just really understanding that that real estate is a financial asset. And so much of the value of the asset is driven by the debt that you can, you know, place on on the the asset. And When you're downside protected, like today, loan to value, loan to cost, it's in the 60s and we're 55%, so you're coming in with a lot of equity. That already is forcing downside protection. Now, even a year and a half ago, I think some groups were levering up to the 80s. And so that's not even, I don't even think that's really truly as possible today. Maybe if you have some strange debt partners that wanna go in and do that with you, but that downside protection, having a lot of equity in your deal, having long-term debt as well, these are critical. So we didn't, I think we had floating on some of that stuff back in the day. Yeah, downside protection is number one, and that includes having capital reserves for something that goes wrong. These are small deals, four-unit buildings, but if a roof breaks, guess what? You might not be able to handle that with your rent payments and the incoming cash flow. Shifting from that, just choosing really a good location, a location that you want to bet on for 10 years, because you might own some of these deals for 10 years. That's how we try to look at things. We like to be long-term hold as our default. And if we happen to go out of a deal sooner than that, then that's rare in our world. But yeah, we want to bet on a long-term location that's going to be durable with population growth, economic growth. And we didn't choose that correctly our first time around from 05 to 08. I think we got it right by 2010 or 11, 12.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, there's something about how those challenging times shape us, right? Yeah, because I think it's related to this conversation as well. But just thinking through, you know, I mean, you all bought a lot of assets now, you all grown a lot, right? You know, over the last number of years, I mean, you just mentioned, you know, what, 17,000 units, you know, in the last, I don't know, was it six or eight years or something like that?

Dan French: Yeah, 2011 to 2019, thereabouts.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, that's that means you have a great team around you. Right. You didn't do all of that, I would imagine. Right. Yeah. Right. You all built a great team. And so share about that a little bit. You know, I mean, what it took for you all to build just an A class team, right. You know, or a players surrounding yourself with a players. How have you all done that so well?

Dan French: So that that business is right now as we're buying assets, that's a new business that we're buying the assets currently because it's a new market, it's a new investment thesis. It's really right now as our current firm is called ATX Acquisitions, and I can go into that later if that's helpful. But the firm that we are talking about that bought two billion in assets was a vertically integrated shop. I think it's important to mention, what sponsor are you? Are you a sponsor that's going to be vertically integrated like we were? Or are you a sponsor that is going to look to have your property management, construction management, maybe even asset management outsourced? You're going to have third-party folks doing this and you'll hire them and then oversee them. We decided to build that platform in a vertically integrated way. The reason why we did that was because we knew coming out of the great financial crisis, Again, this is like ancient history to some folks, but coming out of that great financial crisis, we were gonna buy some heavily distressed, physically distressed deals, right? Especially in Florida. Florida at that point was like left for dead. People forget about this, but a lot of the buildings were completely 0% occupied. They were just left. The banks had taken back a lot of the keys, didn't know how to run the deals. So the banks had these deals on their balance sheet you know, seek to offload them to groups like ours. So Pete, as the founder and chairman, thought, you know what, this is going to be a very specific play. We're going to have to go do turnarounds, heavy turnarounds, and have an entrepreneurial team do that. And we felt that was best done with an in-house team, because you can get a lot more scrappy if you kind of set the tone as your own team, rather than hiring somebody from You know, that's not as invested in the turnaround of your asset. So we felt like that was the most important thing. If we're going to do these heavy value add deals and bet on the future of Florida, bet on the future of Texas coming back from the great financial crisis, we felt that that was important. So let me just set the table there. And then is that helpful?

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, that is helpful. You all made a good bet there.

Dan French: Yeah. Yeah, it was a great, it was a great bet. And, and, you know, a lot of execution up behind it. So that's where we're going to talk about an A team. Um, because now certainly, uh, you know, if it, if I was alone or Pete was alone, absolutely not, you know, you can't, you can't do 17,000, uh, apartments and doing well with a, with a really strong track record, um, during all that time without having an A team. So, so credit to, to Pete in large part, you know, he, he had a vision to, have a sustainable platform. And the way we came together was I think we kind of just chopped up different capabilities and we would go hire people that were super hungry and very capable and ambitious to have an impact on the world. And so I think a team start with character and that includes a mission orientation. So they have to be like mission focused if they're going to work with us. because we do try to attach a mission to all the work that we do. Even if it's seemingly mundane, we want to have people that are driven to empower others. And back then, there was a big mission to provide people great homes. When the whole great financial crisis is happening, people, they're being completely underserved. It was really sad, some of these places that people were habitating, and we brought them back to life. So that was a very, very powerful mission, and it really animated a lot of our team. So that's going to attract the right type out of the gate, right? The right character, the people that are going to be like, all right, cool. I want to get in on board with that mission. And of course, the mission as well of stewarding other people's capital. You know, these are folks that are, that we exec level people, partner level people that knew it's a huge financial responsibility and really actually even moral obligation when you're accepting other folks capital that you have to go above and beyond. And it doesn't matter if you're tired, or things went wrong, or whatever, you know, you have a mission to steward that capital.

Whitney Sewell: Well, it starts with it with character, maybe give a couple tips, even on hiring, you know, how you all hired some of your top people on how you've You found them for one, but then how do you know their character when you're going through that process? There's definitely been times I've hired people where I thought that they were going to be a good fit and it didn't turn out the way I expected, right? But then again, there's been some that have gone way and above what I even expected. you know, as well, you know, right. And so, yeah, any tips on how you found them and and maybe how you thought through their character, how you knew that about them to hire them? And then we'll have to move, move to another topic.

Dan French: Yeah. So, no, thanks, Whitney. And that resonates with me for sure. Like, you know, the one thing for you, for the audience is you're not going to get it right every single time. You know, you're going to you can hopefully fell forward to get closer to the next person. That's going to be like your stable high character, you know, high integrity, high drive, high talent person. But I think it's a mix of things. Like we, some of them were personal relationships that Pete had. Some of them were, you know, a recruiter. One of our partners came from a recruiter. That was random, but turned out to be, he was like a 10 or 11 year partner with us and still is on that former business. Yeah, you know, some of it's just hustle outreach. We noticed our, CFO now, Rachel Ridley, was moving from the Virgin Islands into Tampa and someone on our team hit her up. She's still with us for 11 years and going into this next business with us as well. So I think it's a combination of just like hustle, network, putting yourself out there, and then having a good vetting process, which I don't know how much time I want to spend on that, but we have a very strong vetting process. We like to sometimes work with folks before we hire them full time, have them have like a little consulting period, like a try before you buy kind of thing. That was transactional, but it's super helpful because that person doesn't want to waste their time either. And the worst thing you can do is waste people's time in their career by hiring them wrong.

Whitney Sewell: I love that thought process of having the consulting time I think that's very valuable for the listener to think about. We have recently done that with someone and and and it's an obvious hire for us, but you know it's been helpful just to have that time, though, you know to. kind of test the waters a little bit, right? Before you're, you have to, you know, they commit to you. And like you said, you're not wasting their time. But that's some great advice. You know, what would you say are some of the most important things to focus on? You know, when you're all building, you know, your business very successfully building, I think, another brand now, it sounds like, but what would you say, you know, for the listener who's building a business, you know, what's some of the most important things they should be focused on?

Dan French: I think team is number one, you know, it's kind of sticking with this a little bit like an A player, you know, what is an A player? So to me, an A player is that if you look at for that person's level across the industry that you're in, they are top 10% or top 15%. So B player is top 50%. And a C player is below average, below the 50%. So you really want to stay away from the C. But the A player is going to move your whole business forward. And it's going to allow you to free up to focus on what you actually do best. Because otherwise, you're going to be doing everyone else's work as the leader, because you can't let the thing, you can't let the ship go down. So at the end of the day, you're going to be doing it, you might be up till 2am every night. if you have the wrong team. So you have to just start with like, it's a first two and then what, you know, first who's on the bus. I think that's good to create by Jim Collins. He's the one that said that, like first who and then what. I think that's really critical. And we spent a lot of time thinking about that. We don't always get it right, obviously. So.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, the team is so important that people are preparing to be able to buy deals like that. Can you elaborate on the type of fund a little bit or or maybe on the past investor side? What does this fund look like? You know, when you're sharing it with an investor? What do they expect?

Dan French: Yeah, so it's a it's a general partner fund. And so we, all the partners have money that we have alongside of our partners that come into the fund. And so anyone that wants to invest with our team would have two different options, really. But you can go deal by deal. If you want to be a little bit more active, you can choose a deal. And we'll show any deal that we have under control, we'll show that to our capital partner network, they can be active and say, Hey, I love the deal in Austin, but I don't really love that deal in Jacksonville. Or you can go in the fund, and that means you're going to get a diversified portfolio of assets, and you're going to be a little bit more passive. You're going to say, I trust you to steward this capital, I trust you're going to find great deals, and you're going to get diversified across at least two different states, Texas and Florida, which we're primarily betting on, although we'll look at some other states. And this time around, we're more asset class agnostic. So we're looking not to basically anything except for traditional office, we're going to stay far away from that. But besides that, we have opened up the funnel quite a bit. Like I said, we have already bought a hospitality deal hotel, we're looking at triple net deals when they come around, we're looking at industrial, possibly medical office. But basically, that's how it goes, right? The GP fund, is asset class agnostic, it's betting on this interest rate, the shocks caused by the interest rate environment, and it's going to be diversified. And that's how we'll put that together.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, that's awesome. And it's interesting why. So have you all been strictly multifamily focused in the past or up to this point?

Dan French: Primarily, yeah, we just bought a couple, you know, one off kind of offices is for our own use. But primarily, it's been multifamily focused. From from a hard asset standpoint, now Pete has some track record investing in some other things.

Whitney Sewell: But yeah, from a hard physical asset, it's been multifamily primarily big to the decision or thought to open up to even other asset classes now and just the, you know, being able to manage them as well. And yeah, take on a new venture like that.

Dan French: Yeah, it's something we debated heavily, you know, because we do have strong network and strong track record. And, you know, we are still obviously looking at multifamily because people, now that they've heard we're active, they're showing us deals. And that's been great, especially off market deals. And we love that. But yeah, we just feel like this is a different timeframe, you know, that when we were getting started in 20, getting restarted, I guess you'd say from my standpoint, but 2011, 12, 13, That was a specific period, a specific bet or trade in the market. Now this is something different. And we're betting more on location than specific asset class. So location being, we feel like there's a durable trend. that's going to continue of people moving out of the high regulatory, high tax states. It's going to continue to go to Florida and Texas. Also, if you look at the Mexican growth story, Texas is a great derivative of that play. A lot of manufacturing is going to get reshored, if you will, back to North America. after COVID with the supply chain stuff, and that's going to continue to rage forward. Mexico is the 10th largest economy in the world. A lot of people don't even think about that, but we feel like that's going to keep growing. Just so many different drivers. Really, we're just looking for jewel assets in great locations that are downside protected, strong cash flow, And that's why we're more open. Because multifamily might, the pricing dislocation is not, is not fully realized yet. And we can talk about that where there's a spread between what buyers are looking to pay and what sellers are willing to accept.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, go ahead and speak to that. I think it's valuable to think through that.

Dan French: Yeah, a lot of people in the industry, they'll call it like a bid-ask spread, where a seller is hanging on, I think, to the past a little bit too much. They're not accepting that simply just by interest rates going up so much that a new buyer cannot pay the same price that they were expecting. Maybe they flirted with taking out their deal to the market in 2022. They probably should have sold then, right? Right before interest rates went crazy. And so they're holding on to that old pricing that they heard about, and they're holding on for dear life and just say, hey, maybe it'll get better. Maybe it'll get better. I don't want to sell for 30% less than what I could have gotten just 18 months ago. And the buyer, though, is constricted because they have to underwrite to new insurance costs. They have to underwrite to new debt. They have to underwrite to new labor costs. you know, wages of their onsite team. So, so that spread is still there, where the buyers are going to be capped, or responsible buyers, at least are going to be capped at what they can pay. And the sellers are going to try to hold on until they get really forced into a sale. So right now, I think we're seeing a lot of this kind of spread be continuing. And we see it all the time, because we have a very active pipeline. And it's hard to put together a deal that is downside protected. Yeah, guys, stay patient.

Whitney Sewell: It's a hard reality, right? It's a it's hard to bring yourself mentally to the point where you really believe, okay, I've got to get rid of this asset. And it's it may be, you know, many millions less than what you heard, like you said, quote, you know, right, you heard that it may be worth two years ago, right, or 12 months, or whatever it was. And so that's, that's hard. right? But better now than being made to sell maybe six months from now, right, at times too. So yeah, it is difficult, no doubt about it. I agree with you though that I believe over the next 12 months there'll be many fire sales or there'll be many operators that it's so unfortunate, right, but they didn't protect their downside like you talked about yesterday. They did similar things, maybe even worse, probably worse, right, than what you all had done, you know, say in 08, or before, right, and are even less prepared, or way over leveraged, or less reserves, or where I didn't raise enough money, all those things that they just left no, there's no, no margin there, right, for error whatsoever. And there's It's real estate, there's air, right? You know, there's going to be things you don't expect, to say, to say the least. So so that's your alls. So would you say that's a big your main focus right now is raising this fund. So an expectation of, of these deals that that unfortunately, are going to go back to the banks?

Dan French: Exactly. Yeah, just just to be prepared to have the dry powder. And we've already closed one deal in this fund. And we have, we're in the best and final on another deal that we expect to hopefully control in the next couple of days here. So we're, you know, like I said, we're active, we're, we're well patient. So that's a good thing is that, and that kind of goes hand in hand, you have to be very active in the, you might have to look at way more deals than you did in the past, but that's okay. You know, you can really gain conviction on the right one.

Whitney Sewell: Is that are you buying those? I mean, are they still owned by the seller? Are they owned by the lender or come back to the lender?

Dan French: Yeah, one was both still owned by the seller. So no, no bank owned transactions yet. But the one we did so far had seller financing that we had negotiated with the seller. So that was very helpful. So we got 4% self-financing over five years with interest on. So I made the deal work. That's downside protection. And that was a great thing. I'd love to do 50 more of those, but those are hard to come by right now. But they're hard to come by. But that's kind of the alpha that we were hoping to bring as a sponsor is that we have networks and we're trying to be so selective and work with different groups to make deals work in a downside protected way.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah. Any other before we move to a few final questions, Dan, any other market trends that that you're very focused on, or maybe that you watch, you know, very frequently?

Dan French: Well, you know, for multifamily, I think I think a lot of folks are talking about this, but but make sure as a listener, you really look at supply. That's that's huge. I know your group does this Whitney very well, but but, you know, make sure you're in a market where you in a sub market, where you understand what is the supply coming online, because so many with a low interest rate environment during that period, so many shovels went into the ground because it was easier to get construction debt. So you have this massive run up in supply. Now, of course, we think, and we know, we've already seen this in the data, that now with the high interest rate environment, these deals are not going to get greenlit. You're going to have a fallow period of a couple of years where groups don't make starts and put shovels in the ground. If you can kind of like what people are saying, survive till 25, And that's when some of the supply will taper off. You'll get this period of time where there's not as much new stuff coming online. You'll have a little bit more pricing power if you're renting multifamily units. But you have to, it's so sub-market specific that you have to really dial in and do your homework. So that's what I would say.

Whitney Sewell: Yeah, I appreciate you sharing so much time with us and even recording two segments with us over over two days and so grateful for the just being willing to be transparent share from your time even the hard times right the challenging times that were probably the most educational right that I'm hoping the listeners and myself but you can learn from and not have to learn the hard way, right? But hopefully they'll take those things and run with the advice that you gave in so many aspects and even today talking through and what you all are doing to prepare for what you see coming, right? And so just grateful for that. Dan, again, how can the listeners get in touch with you and learn more about you?

Dan French: Sure. Yeah, no, it's my pleasure to be on and I really appreciated it. So my cell phone is 845-629-1808. Feel free to reach out to me there. But Daniel French on LinkedIn, atxacquisitions.com. So D French at atxacquisitions.com.

Whitney Sewell: Thank you for being with us again today. I hope that you have learned a lot from the show. Don't forget to like and subscribe. I hope you're telling your friends about the Real Estate Syndication Show and how they can also build wealth in real estate. You can also go to lifebridgecapital.com and start investing today.