Why 90% of Leaders Plateau (And How to Break Out of It) | Chris Robinson

Most leaders think they’re growing—but in reality, they’re just repeating the same year over and over again.

In this powerful conversation, Doug sits down with Chris Robinson, Executive Vice President of Maxwell Leadership, to unpack why over 90% of leaders plateau—and what it actually takes to reach your potential.

Chris shares the mindset shift that changed his life from chasing success to developing others, how to become a “star maker” leader, and the hidden danger of complacency he calls “the secret place of satisfactory success.”

If you want to get promoted, multiply your impact, and avoid drifting through your career, this episode is a must-listen.

💡 What You’ll Learn:

• Why most leaders plateau (and don’t even realize it)
• The difference between being the star vs. creating stars
• The question that will fast-track your promotion
• How to respond when you get passed over
• Why complacency is killing your potential
• The role of family, discipline, and intentional growth in leadership
• How top leaders invest in themselves to stay ahead

⏱️ Episode Breakdown

00:00 – Introduction to Chris Robinson and his leadership journey
02:00 – Getting into personal growth for the wrong reasons
03:30 – The Law of the Lid and becoming a “star maker”
06:00 – The mindset shift required to truly develop others
08:30 – What to do when you get passed over for a promotion
11:00 – “The phrase that pays” for career growth
12:30 – From Drift to Drive: Why Chris wrote the book
13:30 – The danger of “satisfactory success”
14:30 – Why most leaders plateau
15:30 – Experience vs. repetition in leadership growth
16:00 – Balancing leadership and raising six kids
19:00 – Structuring your life around what matters most
21:00 – Inside Maxwell Leadership and developing leaders
23:00 – How to get out of the pile: results, service, and growth
26:00 – Lessons learned from working with John Maxwell
28:00 – Chris’s story: DUI, second chances, and transformation
32:00 – Leadership and alcohol: influence and responsibility
35:00 – The power of environment: people, places, and habits
37:00 – Best advice: “You have to get on a lot of airplanes.”
38:00 – How to read for growth (problems vs. passions)
40:00 – Leadership philosophy: Treat people like people
41:00 – Biggest pet peeve: inconsistent leadership
43:00 – Parenting lessons and prioritizing family
46:00 – Advice to his younger self
47:00 – The legacy Chris hopes to leave

🔗 Resources & Links:

Chris Robinson 

Maxwell Leadership: https://maxwellleadership.com

Book: From Drift to Drive by Chris Robinson

The L3 Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Andocia Marketing Solutions.
Andocia exists to bring leaders’ visions to life. Learn more at www.andocia.com

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Transcript

Doug Smith 0:00

Hey leader, and welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, where we are obsessed with helping you grow to your maximum potential and to maximize the impact of your leadership. My name is Doug Smith, and I'm your host, and we recorded this episode live from our Burgo Realty Studios. In today's episode, you're going to hear my conversation with Chris Robinson, who is the executive vice president for the John Maxwell team. He has six children, so I love talking to him about that. Had a lot of interest on how he balances everything while leading a large family. And he also wrote a book that we talked about called From Drift to Drive. And I absolutely love this conversation, and I think you will too. So with that being said, let's dive right in. Here's my conversation with Chris Robinson. Well, Chris Robinson, welcome to the LP Leadership Podcast. It's an honor to have you on. I've been following you for quite some time now. I'm a John Maxwell team uh member myself. And so that's when I first uh saw you. And obviously we have a mutual connection with Jeff Hancher as well. So I've been looking forward to this for a long time. Thanks for taking some time today.

Chris Robinson 0:56

Hey Doug, thank you so much uh for having me on. And I love the opportunity to get to do this. You know, one of the first questions I asked you was, you know, hey, how can I add value to you and your uh listeners out there today? And you said, hey, I'm here to just add value. And if there is a clear mission, a clear passion for me, it's adding value to people so they can multiply value to others. So I love your heart, love your passion, and I can't wait to dive in today.

Doug Smith 1:19

Come on. Well, it sounds like we're very similarly wired. And uh, and as I was researching you, uh man, I was really struck by your story. Uh, for those listening to the podcast, a lot of people know my story. I was really uh headed the wrong direction, but had two specific leaders come into my life who saw a vision in me and basically cast a vision for who I could become if I was intentional with my life. And one of those leaders handed me a John Maxwell CD. And that was really the start of my personal growth and development journey, and it changed everything for me. And so I would love for you to just share a little bit about. I love asking people like when did the light bulb go off for you? And um, can you kind of just share your story of what kind of got you on this intentional growth track to adding value to people?

Chris Robinson 1:59

Yeah, what really got me on the intentional growth path was um it really was kind of shallow, to be honest with you. Um when I say shallow was because I really got into personal growth and development, leadership development, because I wanted to get promoted on the job. And that was it. I mean, I wanted a title, I wanted the money, and I I wanted uh position, you know, and so that was really my true intentions, which I think most people's intentions are, you know, that, you know, success at an early age. And what happened was I ended up beginning to learn John Maxwell material, and it began to shape me, it began to get a hold of me. I began to hear things like, you know, you need to connect before you ask, you need to uh add value to others. Leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing than that. And these things begin to get inside of me, and there's this subtle shift that happened. But I remember a very clear, clear day where I had the biggest aha moment that really shifted me when I was reading the 21 laws of leadership trying to get promoted on the job. And there's a graph inside the 21 Laws of Leadership on page five and page six. It's in the law of the lid. And in the law of the lid, John Maxwell gives a map of people's dedication to success and your overall effectiveness and how we really get good at a skill. And in that particular case, you become the star. And that's what we want. Like that's what I was after. That was the whole reason I was taking this class because I wanted to be the best, I wanted to stand out, and then there was a graph on page six that showed that if you increase your leadership ability and you have the exact same effectiveness in your role, that you increase your overall effectiveness exponentially. And then something went off like fireworks, and it was in that moment where I went, I'm more valuable to an organization, not if I'm the star, but if I'm the star creator. When I can't create stars, I have so much more value for the organization. So I then I went on this mission, man. I Doug, I we had this mission. It was I'm going to be the manager that creates the most managers inside the organization. And you're if it's going to be known that if you come to my team, you've got a great chance of getting promoted. And that worked. Um, it worked to create stars, it worked to make me as a star, it made me more valuable to an organization. But in that process, you know, as Zig tells us, if we help enough people get what they want or eventually get what we want, I did, but I fell in love with developing people, and I thought, man, I begin to have this thought, Doug, is is man, if if I could just spend a hundred percent of my time just helping people, how awesome would that be? And that's what started me in this hot pursuit of coaching, speaking, training. Uh wanting to just develop people for a living.

Doug Smith 5:00

Yeah. Well, I love that. I would love to hear just what are some of the processes you've used, and I'm sure you've honed in that skill over the years since. What did you do to become a star maker? I love that vision.

Chris Robinson 5:11

Yeah, well, it first starts off with a shift in your mindset. Like you have to let go of some ego, and you truly genuinely have to love and value people. Because what most people do is, you know, it's nice to say, you know, oh, I want to help other people get ahead. But but when they start to catch up with you, get on the same level, and then when it comes to that point to where, hey, they might uh surpass you, that's when you really believe, that's when you really find out if you believe that statement or not. I remember very clearly uh there was a team member that I had, guy came into the organization, and I helped them get promoted to it to the uh management level. Uh, he got promoted up to the next management level. Now we're on the same level as one another. And um, then the next opening was coming. And I remember uh coming back from a manager's retreat with him uh in a car, him and I were driving back, and I said, Hey, this next promotion's coming up, and you know, man, honestly, it's either gonna be me or you that gets this role. I said, Hey, here's the commitment I'm gonna make. Hey, if I get promoted, I'm gonna do everything I can to help you get to the next level. And hey, and if you get promoted, could you help me get to the next level? And he said yes to that. Um, he ended up getting promoted. I got passed over in that. So somebody I helped build up and get to the next level. They went above and beyond me. But I can tell you what, still to this day, if I called him right now, done, if I picked up the phone and said, Hey, man, I need something. No questions asked, he'd be there all right. But it's truly, truly loving and valuing people is the core shift that you have to make of truly wanting to see other people succeed, well beyond where you are. And I did that throughout my career, and there was so many, so many people, still to this day, that either I could go work and consult for, but they worked for me years ago. But because of who they've become and because of who I was to them at that phase in their career, the doors and relationships are open and even greater today.

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Doug Smith 8:16

I love that. I'm curious, you share that story. How did you respond to not getting the promotion? Not just in being happy for you know your peer, but how did you just respond and not give up? I know so many people they're striving for leadership roles, they want the promotion, and when they get passed up, man, it just crushes them. And and all of a sudden, man, they they stop trying. Like, how did you respond and what did you learn from that experience?

Chris Robinson 8:40

Yeah, well, I mean, it it happens all the time. And the window in which somebody else gets promoted is your greatest opportunity to position yourself the next promotion. Wow. That's the big window. When you crash out, management looks and goes, Yeah, we made the right decision, right? So, what I would do every single time that I would get passed over for a promotion, the first thing I would do, number one, go and congratulate the person that got promoted, right? Hey, be happy for them, celebrate them. But then number two, I'm going right to the manager's office and saying, Hey, I got passed over for the promotion. Could you talk to me about what it is that I need to improve upon in order to make sure that I'm in line for the next one? So I was looking to correct what's wrong. And I and um like I was with um I gosh, David uh just a few weeks ago, and he said something that was profound. Uh, a quote that he had, and he said that your ability to grow is dependent upon and in relationship to the amount of truth that you can accept about yourself without running away. That's good, man. Wow. So so what you have to do in those moments when you get passed over is you have to go ask some tough questions. Hey, why did you get passed over? What is it that you're looking for? What is it that I lack? What is it that I need to improve if I want that next role? Now, if you don't want that next role and you get passed over, hey, it's okay. But if you truly want it and you truly want to figure out that, you need to go and ask the tough questions because there was something and somewhere that you're not showing up where it's clearly visible that you're the next person in line.

Doug Smith 10:22

I'm I'm curious, does anything come to mind when you think about, you know, man, this this one time, whether you got passed up a promotion or a failure, was there a lesson that you learned that was life-changing for you and the trajectory of your career?

Chris Robinson 10:33

Yeah, I wouldn't call it life-changing. I think at the end of the day, anytime I got passed over, it was because of my lack of desire to pay the price in a specific area, whether that was to learn a new skill, whether that was to take on a specific type of work, you know, because we like to do what we like to do, something we don't like to do. All right. But that's also how I got promoted as well. Too. I would ask this question all the time. And this always kept me in the pipeline of looking at is that I would go to the manager and ask, this is what I call the phrase that pays. All right. If you want to get lined up for your next promotion or position, what you need to do is go to your manager and ask this question. Now, this is gonna this is gonna hurt some people's stomach because there's so much risk involved in this. But what I would do, Doug, is if you were leading me, I'd come to you and say, Hey, Doug, what is it that you don't like to do that I could do for you? Okay. Now, what that does is now Doug hands me off stuff that he doesn't like to do. I get the opportunity to learn things in a leadership role that there's no way otherwise I could learn. But then when the next promotion comes around, it has me primely placed for a position because I'm already doing management stuff that I'm not being paid for, that I'm not being asked to do. But I raised my hand and said, Hey, I want to do that.

Doug Smith 11:58

Such good advice. Uh, I loved how you said that, man, it's just oh, I'll just shift to the book. You you recently wrote a book called uh From Drift to Drive. And and it's really just about we can get so complacent. And I love how you said the times where you didn't get promoted, uh, it was always because you weren't willing to pay a price. And I feel like that's kind of the whole thesis of your book, right? It's like we get to this place in leadership where we just get comfortable and we don't even recognize we're drifting and become complacent. Like, talk more about that and and why you wrote this book and why you see that happen to leaders so often.

Chris Robinson 12:32

Yeah, you know, I rumped the book because uh what I'm really trying to solve in the book is underperformance in our lives, right? And so when we kept coming back to what is the root cause of underperformance in any area of your life, the number one thing that we kept coming back to was complacency, right? And so oftentimes we think of the word complacency, we think of laziness or apathy, but it couldn't be further from the truth. Complacency comes when we become um, you know, proficient in a specific area where we don't have to give it the energy that we used to to get there. And so the way that I redefine complacency in the book is I call it a secret place of satisfactory success. Come on, it's that's so good. The secret place, you know, you know where you can have more, where you're good, but you have more potential. And what I'm trying to do with the book, Doug, is bridge the gap between your good and your potential. And if you do that, there'll be more fulfillment, there'll be more success, there'll be more significance, there'll be more of everything if you're striving towards your potential, not just what you're good at, not just get into that secret place. We're like, uh, it's good, it's all right, it's okay.

Doug Smith 13:49

Yeah, I'm I'm curious, like in your experience, how many of you how many what percentage of leaders do you feel like actually just plateau and you just kind of see them be stagnant the rest of their life versus the ones who actually go the distance and are willing to endure that pain in price?

Chris Robinson 14:02

Yeah, it's it's gotta be over 90%. Wow. Uh that just come flat. And the reason I say that, all right, the reason I say that is because, you know, when it boils down to it, we all work to a place, a position, or a title. And the most common way that I reconcile this statement is that most people think that they've got 10 years experience, but in all actuality, they've got one year of experience that they've repeated that five times. But when was the last time you actually did something for the first time in your role? When was the last time you actually intentionally got better at a specific skill set in your role? And if it is beyond months, then chances are you're drifting. And so you really gotta take a look. That number is really high because people confuse coming to work with actually gaining experience or getting new knowledge.

Doug Smith 15:08

Yeah, it was specific to you and Chris. We'll probably dive into your family a little bit later. But uh, those you know, listeners of the podcast know I have five kids, you have six, and I didn't know until we started. You started with triplets and then you had twins after that. Like, God bless your wife and your family. Like, that is that is next level. But man, a lot of responsibility in leading at home. I know you have a lot of responsibility leading in your professional life. How much does family impact that that complacency in leaders? And and if you've not were there seasons where you had to become complacent at work, so you did it at home, and vice versa, or have you been able to kind of just keep going and keep growing?

Chris Robinson 15:46

Well, I I think that you have to keep going, keep growing. Um, I think when it comes to family, a lot of people use that as an excuse to be complacent. Well, I can't take this risk because the kids, well, I can't do this because the kids, or they, you know, or I've gotta work all these hours because I have kids. And so they could use family as a scapegoat. Um for me, I what I've done my best to do is I built my business around my family, not my family around the business. And what I mean by that is that, you know, you know, we made a very early decision in my career that, hey, um, you know, we've got triplets, it's intense. I mean, it's it's a lot. And so um, I did not travel outside of one time per month was like my limit. Like and I was gonna get into town, I was gonna get out of there and get back home because I didn't want to be on the road chasing opportunities, um, you know, and forsake my family. Now, as the kids have gotten older, they're self-sufficient now, you know, the teenagers we don't even see at home anymore. You know, now my travels increase significantly, but still, even to this day, we put all of the kids' activities in my calendar first, and then we build around that. And so if there's a track meet, if there's a baseball game, if there is a gymnastics meet, I I'll turn down a keynote to go to a little league baseball game. I'll turn down, you know, these are thousands, tens of thousands of dollars of opportunity because I know I have a limited time window to go to a baseball game, little league baseball game, limited time window to go to a track meet. You know, they're juniors in high schools right now, you know. So those things are vitally important to me. And I'm gonna have time to chase this stuff around the world, you know, for you know, for for quite a while.

Doug Smith 17:41

Yeah. How are you doing with the the kids getting older and potentially you know flying from the nest, so to speak, in a few years?

Chris Robinson 17:48

Well, you got you got your extreme joy, then you got your like, well, wait a minute, it's quiet around here. There's no chaos, you know, big you're gone. You know, it's the it's the twins left and they get along, you know, like you know, it's so it's different. And so that's the thing people ask me, they say, well, Chris, when does it get easier when I meet parents with uh triplets or twins? And uh they say, when does it get easier? I was like, it never gets easier, it just gets different. Uh and so uh it's evolving at each phase. Uh, but with each phase of their life, it's been intense because there's multiples in each phase of that life. So three teenagers, three drivers, three getting ready to go to college, uh, you know, two, you know, in the bottom, the single who thinks he's an only child, you know, all these different things that factor into it.

Doug Smith 18:39

Yeah, I'm curious just while we're on the subject of parenting, you know, uh you mentioned building your life around your kids' schedule first rather than your business. Are there are there any other systems or things that you and your wife have put into place to be able to just manage it all throughout the years that have been helpful?

Chris Robinson 18:54

Yeah, you know, so we uh I'm very big on my schedule. And so um we the biggest thing is communication of the schedule, uh, which I am bad at with my wife. I can just run and you know, and I'm just going because for me, I'm an execute the day person. So what we do is on Sunday nights, uh, we take a look at the full week, and I know what I have to execute. So I'm not a wake up in the morning and hey, I what's on my to-do list today? No, I know all that a week in advance, and all I'm doing is executing the day. So that way I'm not trying to figure out what I gotta do. I execute it. But the other thing that we do is on a macro scale, is that each at the beginning of each month, my executive partner or assistant sends my wife my full schedule or anything that might cause an interrupt in family time. So she'll say, you know, hey, he's traveling on these days, he's got a webinar at eight o'clock at night, he's got a early morning session here, so we get a full update that goes directly to my wife. Um, so she knows what's going on for the month, and then weekly, I know what I have at the beginning of the week, and then I execute daily.

Doug Smith 20:04

All right. Do you so your weekly meeting? But so my wife and I do this as well. We call it our family team meeting on Saturday mornings. Um, I love the outcome, but I dread the meeting. Is that I don't know how you are like my wife will send me an agenda at 6 30 a.m. and I'm she's like, Are you ready? I'm like, No, I'm not ready yet. Like, can we just wait? But but afterwards, man, when we're on the same page, we're in alignment, it's it's so good. Uh, do you guys have a similar dynamic?

Chris Robinson 20:29

Yeah, we do. It but it's it's very easy and very light at this point because we've done it for so long. It's not like uh we have to schedule it, it's just in casual conversation. Hey, did you get the email from Lona? Hey, did you see uh what's going on this week? Hey, you know, um I think we might have to change this. Something pops up or something goes wrong. Hey, oh, I can adjust this. And so it's just it right now, it's it's pretty effortless. And, you know, at this point, just because we have done it for so long.

Doug Smith 20:56

Yeah, that's great. Um, can you give people a little bit more context about what you do for the John Maxwell team and just what you do overall in addition to the book?

Chris Robinson 21:04

Yeah, so I'm the executive vice president of the Maxwell Leadership Certified Team. So we actually train uh people in the skill set of coaching, executive coaching and speaking and training, and all of which are skills that if you are wanting to grow and develop, those three skill sets will improve you in every area of your life. If you become a better communicator, it's gonna position you better inside the workplace. If you become a better coach, you're gonna be able to lead better at home and in the office. Um, if you learn how to train, that's gonna help you again multiply leaders and create stars versus just being the star. And so we have a certification program that we offer, and um, we help leaders develop leaders. So and our mission is very simple. Our vision is very simple. We add value to leaders so they can multiply it to others. That's it.

Doug Smith 21:58

Come on, and it's can you get to give people some Context of how many people have been trained year to date?

Chris Robinson 22:04

Well, just inside the Maxwell certified team that have actually come through the certification process, we're just over 61,000 worldwide. Wow, that's people. That's 15 years. Uh we have 15 years this August. And um actually this month is when the actual organization launched 15 years ago. So 61,000 people around the world, but yet um the number of people that the 61,000 impact, when we're talking about millions upon millions of people, it's absolutely amazing. Yeah.

Doug Smith 22:35

And Chris, so 61,000 people, and I'm sure there's millions of people who want to be a great speaker, would love to be doing what you're doing. And you know, we often hear John talk about the story of Jack Welch saying, Hey, you have to get out of the pile. I'm curious, like in your journey, you know, you were asked as a young leader, like, hey, what if you could just focus on what you absolutely love doing and you get to do that today? But what do you think? You know, not everyone gets to be in a position that you're in with John Maxwell or on the team. Like, what did you do to get out of the pile? Or what did you do to be unforgettable uh to get you to where you are today?

Chris Robinson 23:06

Yeah, well, it's two things. One, well, actually, three things. So, one, I got results. Okay, I got results. If you want to get attention of influencers, get results. Okay, you'll know a uh a tree by its fruits. Okay, so I got a result. Number two, I served. Okay, so um it's serving. It wasn't I got a result and said, hey, look at me. It was I got a result, hey, let me help other people get the result that I got. And so I raised my hand for every opportunity that um the Maxwell Leadership Certified Team offered to volunteer. I mean, that meant me steaming uh flags and banners, you know, in a hallway. That meant all different types of stuff just to get within proximity. That meant me paying to volunteer to go on trips in other countries where I remember the first time you know I knew that John Maxwell knew me was it was in Paraguay. Okay, this was uh three years after being on the team. I'm in the country of Paraguay. I had in number three, I had invested and continued to invest in myself, right? But that band I was serving, and I was in a buffet line, and John Maxwell walks up behind me. He's like, Hey Chris, how's it going? Hearing great things about the difference and the impact that you're making, the results. I'm going, oh man, John Maxwell knows my name.

Doug Smith 24:30

You know, that's awesome.

Chris Robinson 24:32

Uh, but it was a combination. So you got to get a result, and you got to do something, right? Get a result with what you have. All right. Number two, you got to serve, add value to people. Number three, continuously invest in yourself. Still to this day, I spend tens of thousands of dollars to invest in programs to get inside of uh other groups and environments to make sure that I'm around like-minded people that are learning and growing. That's how I do it.

Doug Smith 25:01

For for all the money that you spend and all the things that you are a part of that you serve, you know, groups that you joined, what what do you feel like has been the most beneficial to your growth? Has it been joining a specific peer group? Yeah, I'm just curious what's had the greatest ROI.

Chris Robinson 25:14

I mean, I again to not sound, you know, it sounds terrible coming from the vice president of the company, but hands down, the number one investment I made was inside the Maxwell Leadership Certified Team. Now, it wasn't just the investment, right? Because there's there's thousands of people that can make the investment. The investment doesn't guarantee your growth. Yeah, you guarantee your growth. So I could have made the investment and then did not go in and engage and grow in the process and stay in the process. But if you just get a one-time up, I I invested in that and I went to it, I didn't do anything with it, and then I didn't invest again. Well, it's very hard to reap a harvest on something that you don't water, that you don't fertilize, that you don't um spend some time with. And for me, this environment with Maxwell leadership has hands down been the best investment, the best environment where I have made lifelong friends, and there's not a day that goes by where I don't speak to another memory. I can't remember the last day. A simple day. Uh, it's just an incredible community to be a part of. So that by far has been the best investment that I've made.

Doug Smith 26:20

Yeah, and uh like me, you were greatly impacted by John's material when you were a young leader. Now you you know, you get to work with your hero, so to speak. What's been the greatest lesson or two that you've learned in being in proximity with John over the past few years?

Chris Robinson 26:34

Yeah, his desire to grow still, he's 79 years old. 79 years old, and you know, Lord knows he's written uh over 90 plus books, and he's got a brand new book that's coming out um here in April called How to Get a Return on Failure. Like this is he's still writing to this day. I mean, um, you know, yay, I got one book done. You know, like, yay, like this man writes a book every year. Every year. Yeah, but the only way that you can do that is if you're continuing to grow. Like if you're not, you cannot give what you do not have. And so uh just his passion to grow, his passion for people is truly genuine, unlike I've seen um, you know, where I've been around some greats, you know, you you meet them on stage and you see them on stage and you go, oh, that's great. You read the books, you go, oh, that's great. You meet them in person, go, oh, I like their books. John's not like that. He is probably has the per closest from stage to actual person that that I've been around. And it's true special. Yeah, the gap is very small. That's amazing.

Doug Smith 27:51

Um, I would love for you if you're uh if you're willing to to share a little bit about your testimony. You know, uh when I listened to your story before, I recognize if it weren't for a few few key moments in your life, maybe when you were a young leader, yeah, you were smart, but you could have very easily not been the man you are today. And I think it's so easy to see people who are in positions like you and just say, man, they've always had a perfect, they've always had the best price, they've always made great decisions, but that's not always true. Can you can you share about your story?

Chris Robinson 28:16

Yeah, I think that's a high honor you said. You were smart. I mean, I was very dumb. That's pretty smart. I think I'm still dumb to this day, but I I'm just smart enough to be just dumb enough to just follow instructions and just follow blueprints and just follow the clues. But growing up, I mean, by the age of 21, I had two DUIs, and um, I went before a judge, and you know, I I was standing before the judge, and he gave some sage wisdom that I already knew. All right. He says, Chris, the path that you're on, you're either gonna be dead or in jail. Like, okay, yeah, tell me something I don't know. Okay, he said you're gonna be dead or in jail. And at that time, for whatever reason, he saw something in me. I had just passed the uh series seven license. I was a licensed stock broker, so I passed the series seven, sixty-three, sixty-five. It's a very difficult test, dude. I was 21 years old. Yeah. So you weren't dumb. Uh yeah, that's debatable. That's debatable. All of all of my school transcripts scripts and getting kicked out of cost, I might tell you differently. Yeah, but but I had a skill set, right? And this judge saw something in me and he says, Look, he goes, You're not, he goes, you're not a dumb kid. He says, in order to pass those tests, you've got some capability. Full-grown adults don't don't make that type of uh leap to be able to pass those tests. He goes, So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give you everything in the book that I possibly can, except for jail time. And I said, Whew, good news. You know, good news. So, what that meant was that I was gonna have to go to AA, I was gonna have to go to some uh drinking safety classes, I was gonna have to have a blow tube on my car, I was gonna have to be on probation, um, you know, just I was gonna have to pay a bunch of fees. Um, I mean, it gave me everything he possibly could. But in that moment after that, I was like, man, this guy gave me a shot. And um, you know, I'd like to say in that very moment it was like cold turkey, and I walked away and everything was good on the way there, but it wasn't. In fact, you know, a few months later, I found myself drinking at a Halloween party again. And um, you know, I remember on that night, my wife asked me one of the most important questions of my life. She said, Chris, can you imagine what life would be like without alcohol in it? Now, in a drunken stupor, I can remember just as clear as day, I saw a vision of what life would look like without alcohol. Now, I was drunk, okay, and that that gap closed. And we left that party, and then sure enough, a few miles down the road, we got stopped by police officers. Now I'm sitting on the curb, handcuffs behind my back. They hadn't ran my information yet, and I'm just going, this is it. I'm going to jail. You know, I wasn't driving at the time, but I was breaking my probation for sure. And um, there was a call over the radio to let us go. My wife's sister was friends with the police officer that heard our name over, heard her name over the intercom, called in, said, Hey, let them get a ride, let them go. Now it was in that moment, Doug, that I said, okay, we gotta call this thing. And um, I haven't had a single drop of alcohol since October 2001. Wow. Um, so 25 years, 25 plus years of not drinking alcohol, not even having a sip leisurely. Um, because that was a ship I needed to make in my life. Wow.

Doug Smith 32:17

I would if you're open to it, I don't even know if you have an opinion on this, but I do. Um but can you talk about your your experience with leaders' relationship with alcohol? You know, I don't think every leader needs to abstain, but I do see a pattern of of unhealthiness with it sometimes. I'm just curious your experience being around a lot of leaders.

Chris Robinson 32:39

Yeah, there's some unhealthiness with it for sure. Um, I don't, you know, uh I don't, you know, want to say that I don't have anything against anybody drinking at all. You know, my wife has a glass of wine, um, you know, and uh what is it called uh for brunch on the Sundays? The uh I don't know if it's Bellini or something, I don't know. I don't I don't have any issue with people drinking at all. Um, you know, because that's that's their choice, that's their right, and that's what they like to do. That that's fine. But for me, what I did and and what I continue doing, the only reason I don't drink now, is for the benefit of others, because I think inside of some leadership cultures, inside of some organizations, when they have events, drinking becomes the thing, and um there's some people that don't want to drink, but the environment says it's okay to do it, and so why I don't drink, especially in those environments, is not because of me, but it's because when I if I were to do it, it gives somebody else permission that may be struggling with it. Yeah, yeah, and so but what it also does when I don't drink is it gives somebody else permission not to drink and that it's okay, and so I don't know how many countless times you know I've been in events functions where leaders are drinking and I don't drink, and um it always ends up being one person, at least one, there's probably others, but there's always one that says, Man, they gave me permission not to. Well thinking about this, I've been thinking about not doing this, and so um, you know, you gotta decide what you want to represent. And for me, I just I want to be that light to help somebody because it really can't go down the wrong track for people.

Doug Smith 34:27

Yeah, I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Um, you know, having a similar story growing up, uh, I remember, I think it was like two years ago, my tax guy, who is a friend, he was asking me about my story, and he said, Doug, how many people do you think that were in a similar situation or experienced things that you experienced, like got out? And I'm I'm optimistic, I always believe in people, and I'm like, oh, easily, like over 50%. And he's more of a realist, and he was like, I would say probably like less than five, um, which is really, really sad. And but it just caused me to like really dive deep on this question of like, hey, for for kids who are in adverse circumstances, like how how do they get out? And it sounds like we have similar stories. And for me, it was two guys that really spoke life into me and saw something in me. For you, it was the judge. What's your experience and and people that you see make that shift versus people who just get uh you know uh enslaved by bondage or or their trauma or whatever they've experienced?

Chris Robinson 35:19

Well, I mean, I the common factor is that there's a model. Okay. And when you don't have a model, um, and a lot of people think, well, I don't I don't have anybody around, but you can get a model from TV, you can get a model from a book, you get a model uh from anything, but you you choose to what you look to model. I mean, and so um for me, I think that people that you know can't get out of it, it's because of what is it? People, places, and events. All right, it's people, places, and events. And so you have to really challenge, hey, am I around the right people because the people are the model, or am I going to the right places? All right, am I going to places that uplift me, places that are good for me? Uh, you know, as I think about, you know, as I thought about my thinking journey and my drinking journey, I'm going, man, was there ever a time where I was just you know, blackout drunk where something awesome happened? That's a great question. Great question, yeah. Absolutely not, you know, it's all bad, it's all bad. Right in people, places, and events. And so um making sure that you're really evaluating and filtering where it is that you're going, what you're doing, who you're looking at, and getting around people that are going in the direction that you want to go. And so it really, I think it's the models that we have around us and what we choose to look at, um, you know, to become is really what holds people back.

Doug Smith 36:54

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Uh, with the time we have left, I'd love to dive into the the lightning round, just a bunch of fun questions ask in every interview. Uh, before we do that, just again, ways people can connect. Uh, you know, you can become a John Maxwell team member, which again, I'm one of those phenomenal experience. Can't encourage you enough if you're interested in being a speaker, author, etc. Um, and then also obviously you can get Chris's book. Uh, what else, Chris? How can we serve you and connect with you?

Chris Robinson 37:18

Well, hey, that's the way you can find me on uh you can find our website at maxwelllu ship.com. And then if you want to connect with me, um and I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, you know, um, Instagram, all the above at one Chris Robinson. So um you can find me there. There we go.

Doug Smith 37:35

Awesome, awesome. We'll have links to all of that in the show notes, so make sure you check all of that out. Um, all right, lightning round. First one is what is the best advice you've ever received and who gave it to you?

Chris Robinson 37:44

Uh, best advice I ever received, if you want to get around successful people, you're gonna have to go on a lot of airplanes. And um, that was given to me um by Pastor David Blunt. Um, because you know, you can't just grow based on your proximity. If you want to develop relationships and you want to get around like-minded people, it's gonna require for you to get out your house, get out your neighborhood, get out your city, get out your state, um, in order to get intentionally get around people that you want to grow with.

Doug Smith 38:15

So when you get that time, I'm curious whether it's a John Maxwell or whoever you get to spend time with. Do you have a go-to question or two that you always ask?

Chris Robinson 38:22

Yeah, I I the go-to question has evolved over the years. Um, and so initially, I would love my go-to question was, you know, hey, what book are you reading? Right? Um, because I'm a you know growth-oriented person. But what I realized inside of that question was it took me down the path of a lot of books that weren't relevant to my life at that time, who were good books, but not relevant, and so it was very difficult for me to get through. So then I start to ask a different question, which was, how do you read? How do you and then that shifted the way that I was able to consume content, but then I started asking questions about specific books, you know. So I only read books in two areas of my life, either for a problem that I'm trying to solve or a passion that I have, a problem or a passion. And so I'm I'm always asking questions around books, I'm always asking questions around experiences, I'm always asking questions around other people that I should get to know.

Doug Smith 39:19

Wow. I'm I'm curious on the how to read book. I I guess I've never really thought through asking someone how they read.

Chris Robinson 39:25

Uh if have there been any significant takeaways that have changed the way you've read or consumed or oh yeah, and I talk about it greatly in the book on um filtering, um, because you know, there's different methods of speed reading, there's different methods of even when you're listening to this podcast right here, if you're listening to it on normal speed, and you're going taking for a long time to get through. Well, there's double speed, there's triple speed. Yeah, I can consume that. And so um just the different ways. So speed reading, photo scanning, a combination of those. Um, you know, there may be books where I'll buy a book for a specific chapter, um, you know, just as because I'm trying to solve a problem. And then the biggest release is hey, if if the book is not serving you, you don't have to finish the book. You can move on to another book. Like you're not getting a grade for it, you're an adult, right? Yeah, you're using the book to get information that you can apply to your life, and you're using the book for reference. And so having to read an entire book from word to word, from cover to cover, was another big relief in my life. So all types of different methods, but I do talk about that uh when I talk about the filtering chapter and uh the book from drift to drive.

Doug Smith 40:43

If you could put a quote on a billboard for everyone to read, what would it say?

Chris Robinson 40:47

Treat people like people and adults like adults. Wow, where did that come from? I'm just curious. That's that's a real simple leadership philosophy that I believe in wholeheartedly that you know if the world and if leadership would just treat people like people and adults like adults, the leadership would go to another level. It's just uh just a philosophy that I love and that I try to live out. I love that. What's your biggest leadership pet peeve? Biggest leadership pet peeve. Oh gosh, uh bipolar leadership. And what I mean by that is the um extreme swings of trying to be your buddy to trying to be this hard-nosed, in-your-face leader. Like find your leadership style and be consistent. So if you're hard, just be hard. Okay, whatever. If if that's your if that's your taste. If uh you know you're moderate, be moderate. If hey, you're a laxadaisical leader, hey, be laxadaisical, but be what it is that you are and find your leadership style. For that biggest pet peeve is bipolar leadership.

Doug Smith 41:59

Where would you put yourself on that spectrum of hard versus all relational?

Chris Robinson 42:04

Yeah, so I'm very moderate, easy to get along with. Um, you know, I create a great space for failure, um, meaning that like, look, I'm not gonna come down. I don't yell. You know, I can't think of you know yelling at an adult, you know. Come on. Yeah, like come on. Either they get it or they get it. Either they change or you change, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's good. I find myself um, and if I had this give a style behind mine, it would be um candid and caring. Candid and caring. I'd be direct with you, but I'm gonna do it in care. Like, let's just talk about the hard things, let's face the hard things, but let's do it with care, let's do it and have fun, and um let's just move forward.

Doug Smith 42:47

What's something you've experienced that you feel like everyone should experience before they die? Could be a bucket list item or whatever.

Chris Robinson 42:53

Yeah. Oh my goodness, I've got a lot of great experiences. What's some experience everyone should experience? Um, hmm. Trying to think, because there's so many things, and it depends on what you're into, you know. Um it depends on what you're into. Uh, give me a vein that you're into. Give me give me an area of life that you're into that you say, hey, I should do this as a parent, I should do this as a uh Oh man, yeah.

Doug Smith 43:17

Yeah, I would go parenting and give me one parenting one and one travel one.

Chris Robinson 43:21

Okay, one parenting one, one travel one. Parenting one, um, Disney, but experience in Disney VIP.

Doug Smith 43:30

Oh, okay.

Chris Robinson 43:31

Now that this will alter your life. There's there's two worlds in Disney. Okay. There's the one that tests your marriage. And then there's the one that brings your marriage together. The Disney VIP brings your marriage together, and uh, it's a phenomenal experience. Uh, that you know, uh, you do all four parks one day, 16 plus rides, they map everything out for you. And uh they take you in the back doors of everything and you go right to the front of the line, you get it, you go out, and then my friend said, Well, what did you do with the rest of the week? I said, Man, I wouldn't know. That's hilarious. One day, one day. Yeah, four parks, six. That's crazy. Yeah. Well, hey, with with your size, with my family's size done, that that's the way to do Disney. That's the way to do it.

Doug Smith 44:25

Well, yeah, well, just side note on that, like, how did and again, I guess with the twins in the the triplets, they're a little bit closer together, but I've, you know, five kids spread over nine years. So I'm trying to figure out that challenge of, you know, hey, I want everyone experiencing Disney, but my girls right now, the older two, they're in like that magical age. The one-year-old's never, you know, we just went on a Disney cruise. I'm like, he's not gonna remember this. Like, do you just have to repeat every couple years? Or how did No?

Chris Robinson 44:50

So with that one, they tailored the experience for you. So there's gonna be some rides for everybody, some rides for the big ones, some rides for the little ones, and then your host is gonna watch the little ones. So you and your wife can go and enjoy it was it was so good, Doug. My wife and I were walking through Disney holding hands.

Doug Smith 45:11

Hey man, if if I got nothing else out of this podcast, which I've got a ton, this was this was gold, man. I'll send you a picture when we go.

Chris Robinson 45:22

It's great. Travel experience, travel experience. Um, you know, I just got back from Fiji and the Philippines. Um was a great trip. Spoke several times uh in those couple countries. I would just say, hey, if again, um you may not be able to do it every time, but at least one time, you know, sit business class, experience that, you know, to take some relief off the trip. Um, it it just it really adds value to you. It makes that travel a little bit easier. Everybody should do it at least once. At least once. Pay the price. You'll see the price and go, I don't know, but I'm telling you, it makes it all just don't shift to complacency with what you're willing to spend.

Doug Smith 46:04

Yeah, yeah. Stay in that drive mode. All right, two more questions. Uh, if you could go back to you and have coffee with yourself at any age, what age would that be? And what would you tell that version of Chris if you actually listened?

Chris Robinson 46:15

Oh man. Um man. Uh it'd probably be around 1920. And I would love to tell my former self, man, your best days are ahead. Your best days are ahead. Um, is what I would tell myself. Um, because again, I I think that I was very visionary as a kid once I got beyond it, because again, I I honestly believe the judge and didn't think that I was gonna live uh beyond 21, 22. And I believe the PSAs on TV about African American men only living to the age of 21, and then I'm going down that path. But when I began to see beyond 21, when I began to see beyond the other side of alcohol, man, I'm telling you, life just got better. And if if I could have showed that to myself, uh just a little bit younger. Again, I was very young when I picked it up and when I saw it, and I'm very thankful for that. A little bit younger, I mean, man, I think it'd really be great. But I'm gonna do that for that today.

Doug Smith 47:17

Yeah. Yeah. Last question is just hey, what do you want to be remembered for?

Chris Robinson 47:21

Yeah, I I want to be remembered for if if you're at my funeral tomorrow, Doug, I want you to say my life was better because of the life that Chris lived and the mess that he taught. That that would be the gold standard for me.

Doug Smith 47:35

Well, hey, after this interview, I can say that about you. So thank you for taking the time to invest in me and our audience. Really appreciate it. And uh hopefully we'll get to connect again someday.

Chris Robinson 47:42

Indeed. Thank you, Doug.

Doug Smith 47:43

Hey leader, thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Chris. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. For ways to connect with him and links to everything that we discussed, you can check out the show notes below. I also want to give a special thanks to our sponsor, Endosha Marketing Solutions. They are the producers of this podcast. And if your organization has any marketing needs whatsoever, I wholeheartedly recommend their services. They're incredible. You can learn more about them at endosha.com. That's a n d o cia.com. And as always, leader, I like to end every episode with a quote, and I will quote Nelson Mandela, who said this. He said, There is no passion to be found playing small and settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living. And I really think that summarizes everything we talked about in today's episode. So that's gonna wrap things up. As always, leader, remember this don't quit. Keep leading. The world desperately needs your leadership. I'll talk to you next episode.