The PROPERTY DOCTORS, Sydney Australia Novak Properties

EP. 1448 “Private vs Public: How Northern Beaches schools shift the market”

• Mark Novak, Cleo Whithear • Season 30 • Episode 1438

Share episode

The old saying that school choice "doesn't matter until it does" perfectly captures the educational dilemma facing Northern Beaches families today. When that moment arrives, it transforms into one of the most significant factors driving property decisions across the region.

School zoning has evolved dramatically over the years, creating rigid geographical boundaries that determine educational access. Property manager Cleo Wichia shares remarkable stories of families renting homes with too few bedrooms or no parking—simply to secure an address within coveted school catchments like Curl Curl Public. Some parents go even further, paying for entire leases without actually living in properties just to qualify for prestigious school applications.

The financial commitment required for private education remains substantial, with Northern Beaches private schools charging anywhere from $11,000 to over $25,000 annually, particularly as students progress toward senior years. Yet for many families, these costs reflect deeper considerations about religious values, disciplinary approaches, and community connections they believe will benefit their children.

Perhaps most fascinating is the cultural contrast between Sydney regions. While Eastern Suburbs social interactions often begin with "What school did you go to?", the Northern Beaches historically shared a unified surf culture where educational pedigree carried less social weight. This regional distinction continues to influence how families approach schooling decisions today, though priorities are gradually shifting.

Despite these educational considerations, property values across most Northern Beaches suburbs remain relatively unaffected by school zoning—with notable exceptions in areas like Curl Curl and Freshwater. The podcast hosts agree that across the region, families are fortunate to have strong educational options regardless of whether they choose public or private pathways. What's your experience with school catchment influencing property decisions? Share your thoughts in the comments!

Speaker 1:

okay, private schools versus public schools. It is a real thing, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter until it actually does. We're going to talk about and how it affects the property market. Stay tuned, I'm the ringleader, so let's go. Cleo Wichia there is no Wichia property manager in the country than Cleo Wichia. Good morning to you.

Speaker 2:

Good morning. How are you, Mark?

Speaker 1:

Very good thanks. Very good thanks. Property manager, 16 years, You've seen it all. My kids were listening to Teacher's Pet on a podcast when they were driving to Coffs Harbour, so they had lots of questions about Cromwell High School for me over the weekend. You're putting Xeno into school applications. At the moment, this school thing like it doesn't matter and no one cares until they do.

Speaker 2:

And now it's a big thing, it's true, it's so true. And it also doesn't even just start in high school. It starts in primary school, when you rent a property, when you buy property and you're a parent, you're looking at your areas of schooling when you're purchasing and renting. So when I went to school there wasn't such thing as as zones. I don't feel that it was so black and white. If you lived here you couldn't go to that school, you could just go to any school. There was placements in every school. You know it wasn't a big deal.

Speaker 2:

Um, as far as you know, if you lived in Narragane and you wanted to go to Mona Vale public, or you went to Mona Vale public and you want to go to Narrabeen public, now it's like a divide of the roads and the applications are very serious when it comes to being accepted in certain schools. So we do get a lot of families that ask do you have anything in Curl Curl? My kid really wants to go to Curl Curl Public because it's a phenomenal, hard-boiled public, phenomenal, very popular primary school. But it only has enough room for a certain amount of students. So if anything comes up in those areas for rent whether there's a bedroom, too small, no parking, it's old, they just jump on it because the schooling has nothing to do with the needs of the property which, and and for people that don't know what, what happens then?

Speaker 1:

so you give that lease to in the school application, you submit that lease, then they say, okay, you're in the zone and then that increases your chances.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's almost automatic. That's the only reason that you wouldn't be allowed to apply if you weren't from that zone, so these leases are very important from primary school on up.

Speaker 1:

And then you're also looking at, you know, tertiary education.

Speaker 2:

So you're looking at high schools then from there, so you've also got a plan ahead for that zoning. Then I had a friend and client that needed a property in the Stella Maris catchment and he was happy to pay, you know, the whole lease just so he could get his kid into this school without being there.

Speaker 1:

So like and again, I'm going to break this down to be real simple for some people, Because obviously there's even people who watch the show that are overseas. So I want to break this down so if you go through the public system, that's for free. So if you go through the public system, that's for free. If you go through the private system, there's a certain cost, but it escalates as you get closer to year 12, being 1 to 12. So what are you paying?

Speaker 2:

for a private school in all the beaches these days, anywhere up from $11,000 to $25,000 a year for the first few years in high school, stolen, yeah, and I believe there are schools that exceed that. Obviously. You know this jumps through my life, my son being 11. All I do is ask the girls in the office that have had all their kids come out of high school what do you know, one of our lovely Nikki, she puts three in St Luke's. I was like, oh my god, like huge expense, huge expense. And you know it was one of the top schools for TR results last year, so understandably they can charge that much.

Speaker 2:

But you know, I was of the mindset. Well, I'm from that generation, you know where I'm, you know a Gen X. I don't care. I left it to last minute, last minute applications. I was like what do you mean? It's gonna be now for the beginning of year five. I was like I was waiting for the year six, see how he goes. And then no, no, no, you have to be way more prepared so where did you go I?

Speaker 2:

went to marta in warrywood that's private 92 and finished in 97.

Speaker 2:

I remember a speech our year 10 coordinated or year nine coordinated gave. I won't say his name, but he was a legend. He just said because back then martyrs still co-ed Catholic, but you know, you still paid school fees that exceeded public schooling. It wasn't private, private, so not very expensive, a little bit above average anyway. He basically stood up to the year and he said you, you, what, you, what, you, what. He pointed to a bunch of kids that were not paying any attention or whatever, and he goes save your parents, the school fees, go to narrabeen, don't even bother wasting your time. I was like wow they got their attention.

Speaker 1:

So so you went through private and you've sent your kids to public.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

So I sent Zeno to a public school in Wernival because at that time he was an only child before my daughter and we thought, well, he needs to be in a big school with lots of kids and not a little niche catholic school, because we thought that he would be better to that sort of environment exposure. Um, then we changed our minds and thought, well, we would prefer him to go to a couple of the local catholic schools that were a little bit smaller and at that point they were full, they had no more placements. So that, yeah, so that, put the car wash on that. And plus, now he's not an only child, he's got a three-year-old sister.

Speaker 1:

So you know, it didn't make any difference yeah right, because I went through Cromer High School and I never even thought twice about it and through chroma high school and I never even thought twice about it. And when I met lisa and um, kids came along, school came along, then it was I sort of didn't even think about it. I sort of probably sounds really silly, but by default sort of lisa was like book the kids in and then it was like go time and then obviously school fees and stuff, like it's a hell of a lot of money, the kids went through private. You know where we brought the kids up around, sort of in the east there wasn't a lot of public school selection, like the northern beaches, um, so it was probably more of a natural progression.

Speaker 1:

And actually the weirdest thing was when I, um, when I was in my early 20s and lisa and I um met and got married, um, no one spoke about school in the northern beaches. And whenever I went to a function in the East it was always what school did you go to? And I always found that really, really weird because I was like you know, does that? Like, within the first couple of sentences people are like what school did you go to? And I never had that before in the Northern Beaches. I'm like this is weird, so anyway, why?

Speaker 2:

because on the northern beaches, the public schools and the schools around here were all of the same culture. We were a surf culture when we grew up. It was about bands, it was about beach. It wasn't about academia, academics or schooling, so it didn't really matter who's who in the zoo. We all just wanted to surf, be a famous pro surfer, go to listen to live music, and so all the schools were that sort of way inclined. It wasn't you're going to be a lawyer, you're going to be a doctor, you need to go to be a doctor, you need to go to this kind of schooling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like it was, I think Lisa's just dobbed me in. So then I started sort of getting annoyed by the question and I thought you know, if you can't beat them, join them. So I actually told people I went to grammar.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

And they went grandma, You're a grandma boy. And I was like, yeah, Yep, grandma boy, Yep, through and through, but but it's OK. So for anyone who doesn't know, it's a real thing guys and girls, Merits for going to a private over a public for Zeno. Can you explain that? In the northern beaches I do think it's different northern beaches, eastern suburbs, inner west, because of things you said like surf, cultures and stuff like that. Why have you gone down the rabbit hole of private now?

Speaker 2:

You know, the school that we're choosing is not so much as private, it's more just a Christian school, a Catholic school. So I do feel like we want religion in our son's life, in our lives. We are, you know, christian and the discipline aspect of that as well. You know, public schooling is great, but we just feel our son needs a little bit more of that nudge into, you know, a certain certain type of, you know, grooming, as you would say not, you know, not like the Pope, grooming sort of stuff, but grooming and seeing. You know, you know the way that you look, the way that you dress, the way. I mean the public schools still have emphasis of that but there's not a lot of, I don't think, repercussions. I remember when I was in high school, if your hair elastic wasn't the same, the right color, you were up to the office and you were in trouble and you had to change it. You could only have one earring. It was like there were certain rules and I think that we need to get it.

Speaker 1:

I think it was. I think it was a sign an elderly person was telling me the mother-in-law mom, so I can't remember someone telling me that they used to check undies still being the same color. I can imagine that these days, ities, it's all been the same colour. I can imagine that these days it's changed. It's changed Before we go, stop it, you can't. Before we go, apparently, it's true. Before we go. Has it intrinsically affected rent or property values as to the areas that you are, values as to the areas that you are? Would you say, like you've obviously acknowledged, there's a difference and people do chase a postcode, but would you say the rents are higher or the sales prices are higher as a result of it.

Speaker 2:

I don't think so. No, because I think we've got an even spread of schooling, of all public schooling. Because I think we've got an even spread of schooling of all public schooling. For example, my area you've got Narrabeen High, Pitwater High, Barron, Joey High. They're all great schools, for whatever reason, and they're, all you know, evenly spread. So I don't think that it really affects our rental prices.

Speaker 1:

no, Apart from Curl, Curl and Freshies for some reason those little pockets there in harvard in freshwater, it's a real thing their rates are higher for that reason I would agree with you. I think on the on the northern beaches, the one that I'll get, that that I'll hear the most, is that curl, curl, curl um public school people bloody love it.

Speaker 2:

They do, they do, they love it. It's a real community and they want to get in there. Um, yeah, look, we're not nervous about it. I don't feel like there's any wrong choice, really, where we live. I think everywhere there are good teachers, good people, families are spread all our families and friends and will be spread out at all schools. So it's not the all in a. You know it's not going to end end our lives but at the same time it's an interesting time, that's for sure.

Speaker 1:

Um, but yeah, I've got a funny fact as well.

Speaker 2:

When we were in high school, if you wore the wrong jewellery and they confiscated it off you, you had to buy it back for $2.

Speaker 1:

No, that's so wrong. That would have been two meat pies back then, that's that person's lunch money in the office. That would have been lunch money. That would have been lunch money. Cleo, thanks for sharing. Public would have been the lunch money. That would have been lunch money. Cleo, thanks for sharing public versus private on the Northern Beaches. Hope you guys enjoyed this show and have a beautiful day.

Speaker 2:

Have a great day everyone. Bye.

Speaker 1:

See ya, bye-bye. Thanks for watching.