Dating Burnout with Jordan Scott

What do you want to do tonight? What's for dinner? THESE are the dreaded questions for SO many people (hi me guilty!) when it comes to dating, connecting with friends, or just figuring out a weeknight meal. Today my guest Jordan Scott is on the podcast to share all things decision fatigue (why we struggle with it), where you  fall on the decision making scale, and how we can have better (and easier) solutions to making AMAZING plans! 

On this episode we cover:

• 48h first date
• novelty in relationships
• radical generosity
• the decision making scale
• planner vs agreer
• relationship dealbreakers
• best date ideas
• relationship checkins
• scheduling dates

💘 Let's be internet friends @thebedside and www.thebedside.co

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Mentioned Resources:

• Cobble App
• How to have a  Relationship Checkin 101 !! 

Connect with Jordan:

• @msjordanscott
• Cobble App 

Be sure to rate, review, and share this episode with a friend!!

Be sure to rate, review, and share this episode with a friend! LOVE YOU!

Transcript

0:00

Music. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Bedside Podcast. I hope we're doing well. Welcome back. If you're new here, I'm so excited to have you here today. Thank you guys for all of your feedback on the most recent episode, so the one right before this about my story from rock bottom to up level. Your feedback has been tremendous and I'm so happy that it that episode resonated so much. It means the world to me. It's something that I was really excited to finally sit down and record for you and I'm just so happy to hear that it is something that people feel like they see themselves in that story. They see themselves in that narrative and that is really what this show is all about. We are here to have the real conversations. They're unfiltered. We're coming to this space, this safe space, to just share all about the human experience, whether it's relationships, whether it's mental health, whether it's sex, whether it's intimacy, like these are all the things that I'm just so passionate to talk about and unearth and. You know, take out from under the rug. So I'm just really happy that resonated with you. I also just had the most beautiful week the other week up in Ojai. I know I was sharing with you guys that I was going up there for just some time off, just to have some out of office, and it was so nourishing. I truly feel like I tapped into this very like zen version of myself. As many of you know, I am on a skincare journey, and part of my homework, if you will, has been around just like getting my hormones back in balance, which includes just like my cortisol. And I promise I'm going to have Camille on to, we've had her on before to talk about hormonal acne, but I'm going to have her back on because I'm doing her course. But something that I learned from her was that cortisol is one of our foundation hormones that basically, if it's thrown off, it affects everything else. And guys, since doing this and like really doing the work around much Much of Camille's protocol, which includes lowering your cortisol, I have seen so much improvement on not only my skin, but of course, just like how I'm feeling from inside out. It's so crazy. So, like I said, we'll do an episode on this, but. Going up to Ojai was just so incredible. I coined one of my days there like my parasympathetic day, so I leaned into all things just like deep and restorative relaxation, if you will. Like, we went to a yin yoga class, we bopped around town really casually, we went to a spa and got massages, and it was actually such a great way to kick off our getaway because from there, sometimes I feel like I go on vacation and it's like not until the end of vacation that I feel totally relaxed, which is still equally as beneficial. Like, um, I feel the effects of it long after still, but this was probably one of the first times I like went on vacation, did a little getaway and like kicked it off really de-stressing from the get go. And that was amazing. It was such such a great shift. So yeah, it was so great. It was amazing, spent so much time outdoors, did a little wine tasting, ate delicious food, highly recommend, getaway RX. So anyways, to kick off this episode, I'm really excited to introduce you to today's guest, Jordan Scott, who is the founder of the Cobble app. And today we're talking all about decision fatigue, specifically dating decision fatigue. I know that's a bit of a mouthful, but I am so excited to have Jordan here today because as someone who previously was chronically indecisive, and I still struggle with it today with dating decision. Jordan literally made an entire app that helps eliminate this problem. Think of it, honestly, as your go-to. If you are someone who struggles with what to do, doesn't know how to keep it spicy with going on hot dates, going to some of the best restaurants, if you're like me, who I literally sometimes don't even know and can't even figure out what I want for dinner, this app is for you. We dive into Jordan's story of creating this app, her 48-hour first date, we talk about just kind of where you fall on the spectrum of decision-making. Like, are you a planner? Are you an aggrier? Where do you fall in that category? How you can find more of a neutralized category? We get into Jordan's idea of best dates, best second dates. We talk about relationship check-ins and just this idea of kind of novelty and relationships, keeping it fresh, keeping it exciting, whether or not you are in a long-term partnership, whether you're just dating around for fun, whether you are dating, trying to meet the one, this episode covers it all. It's so exciting. So without further ado, let's welcome Jordan to the Bedside Podcast. Hi, Jordan. Welcome to the Bedside Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. Thrilled to be here. Tatiana, it's so nice to meet you. So nice to meet you. All right. You are the founder of Kabul. You have just this amazing take on dating, and I'm really, really excited to get into it. But I think first and foremost, I really want to get an understanding of just like, who are you? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are how you got here. I was actually reading an article about you, about your 48 hour first you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What are. Date, and I thought this could be an awesome place to start. Oh my God, Eva, it's so funny that you say that because I obviously recall the 48 hour first date, but at the same time, I feel like it's become this part of my background and my story that it's hard to remember. This is a personal story and it's also out there in the public at something so random, but I'm happy to retell that story. And it's of course, with my now husband, Nick, and essentially we met in a bar, flirted a ton. My good girlfriend was the bartender there and he was a regular at her bar. And I thought that was weird and not super interested in that. But at the same time, we just kept running into each other and And he was just so magnetic. And eventually, he asked me out on a date. And that first date was an incredible sort of very planned, very thoughtful experience where we started at this Italian place that was underground. And we ordered clam pizza, even though neither of us have ever had clam pizza. And we're trying to make each other think we were cool and whatever. Wait, I just have to put a plug in that. That's a very bold first date meal. Clam pizza, guys. I mean, I don't even know. Like I said, I had never had it. He certainly had never had it. And it's now like one of our favorite pizzas. So we have to order it anytime we see it on a menu. But we did that. And then we walked across Washington Square Park. And then I had mentioned in the bar one day that I really loved the movie Whiplash. I was like, but I've never really seen a live jazz band, and so he took me to this huge 12-piece live jazz band with a little reserve table right by the stage. It was so romantic and so thoughtful. As we now know, the date didn't end for a day and a half. I think the final parting was actually in Central Park. I met up with his friends and we were throwing a football, And the rest is history. I don't even know what happened. This was the date that spawned into an eight-year relationship. We're married. We just had a baby. So it's a crazy story. But most importantly, that thoughtfulness and that sort of perfect night, the first one, is what inspired Kabul in many ways, because it is all about connecting with the people around you and having the best experience for you and for everyone around you. And that was definitely part of it. I'm obsessed with that. OK, I want your hot take. I guess I already kind of can guess what your opinion is. But I think a lot of people think that maybe having a 48-hour date or having a really long date can almost feel like false intimacy. So what was your discernment there? How were you like, obviously, you're married. You have a kid. It worked out. But I'm curious to know if you have the same opinion of that time of length going on a date, or if you're like, I feel like I was the exception. You know, I think that our intentions were very clear from the start. And those intentions were actually that we were not interested in being in a committed relationship. We were like, I said, I'm having the best time of my life being single. I had just gotten out of a long relationship about a year before someone similar to him. And we both were like, so we don't want this to be like a real thing. Right. And we were like, yep. Yep. And then Again, I don't really know when it turned. It was probably a few months after that 48-hour date. But I think because there was no pressure on whatever our relationship was, it was like, let's just be completely authentic and completely ourselves. And this is really fun. And I don't want to say goodnight. And I don't want to say goodbye. And in that way, it was just totally natural and honest. And maybe that's a little bit tougher if there is less of a no pressure thing going on, if that makes sense. No, totally. I feel like you were probably both, like you said, in the headspace of just. Wanting to get to know another person without the expectations of something more than just a good time. So I think when you're both, like you both met each other at, you were both level set. You were on the same playing field. So that makes a lot of sense. But I love that story. I mean, what a unique way to have met someone. And then, of course, launched an entire business around this concept. So OK, give us just a very high-level taste of Kabul and how it works and what it is. Yeah, so Kabul originally was for couples. It was for existing couples, people in relationships who were tired of going back and forth on, what do you want to do tonight? I don't know, what do you want to do? And feeling like they can't make a decision, everything is annoying, and a fight ensues. So the very first version of Cobble was for couples. And essentially, when you both swiped right on the same restaurant, you matched, and then you would go to that restaurant. Now, fast forward 2 and 1 half, almost three years, and we have not only expanded beyond couples and into all relationships, friend groups, and family, and colleagues, whatever, whoever you're making a decision, with, but we've also expanded the actual decisioning tool within Cobble that's a little bit smarter than just two swipe rights equals we're going. And so the way it works now is that you can figure out dinner, what to watch, what to cook, and even more verticals. And essentially you're able to organize very easily what you're interested in doing, shoot it off to whoever's involved, get their really smart votes and ranks, and then you can finalize the plan and keep everyone in communication. So cool. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've hit decision fatigue. I mean, actually, I think it's in my astrology. I'm a Libra, and they always say it's like they're very indecisive sign. I've worked so hard, Jordan, at trying to become a decisive person. But I realized and I wonder if you found this in your research that I my decision, I'm a good decision maker when I'm given options. I just need one, two, three, pick the best option. I can't just be sitting in an abyss of decision-making and millions of options available. I need to have three types of cuisines presented to me, and I'll know exactly what type of takeout we should get. You completely nailed it, and that is sort of what we have tried to develop at Kabul in terms of how do we, what you just described, it's like there's overwhelming options, And then there's also no options in some cases. And so you either have everything or nothing, at least that's what it feels like. But exactly, as soon as you put it into a view that is easy to see everything that's available, it's much easier to make a decision. And also, by the way, another tactic is getting ahead of it, not waiting until it's the moment where you need to decide and you're already hangry and you're already pissed. It's like, how do we get you to make that decision earlier and loop everybody in? And then it's just a breeze. I love that so much. How does dating decision fatigue differ from other types of decision fatigue? Or would you say they're kind of the same? I have to imagine they're relatively the same. I think a big part of the problem of dating is. Sort of figuring out how you're going to get to know this person and how you're going to spend time with them. You can't just be plopped into a room and expected to figure it out. I think so much of what helps people get out there and really connect is by finding mutual interests. We both love Korean food, or we both love axe throwing, or at least we try doing adventurous stuff. So if you're able to figure out something that you would most want to spend your time on so that dating also doesn't feel like a chore, but actually lets you experience life as you're in this process of dating, I feel like would be really cool. In fact, when I was on the dating app before I met Nick, I love movies. I'm a huge movie buff. And every single date I would go on through an app, I would ask if it could be a movie, because I just was like, even if this person sucks, I will have gotten to see this movie. And I felt like I got enough information about the person standing in line for candy that I knew already. You know in two minutes. I don't know. Maybe that's just me. And if I liked that, and if we were laughing during the movie or anything like that, then yeah, you can go get a drink after, you can go do something. But people were like, a movie is the worst first day. You can't even talk to them. And I'm like, No, you it really is the best first date. I love it. You're like, I know my answer in two minutes. The rest of like. And we're good either way for the next hour and a half, whether or not we know we're not for each other or we kick it off. At least we got to see a movie tonight. You know, that is such a good strategy. Oh my gosh, I have like so many questions lined up for you. Like I'm just really trying to to figure out where to even begin here, because I think so much of social media has altered the way that we even view dating and modern dating. And it's really interesting, too, because I think sometimes the way people present their dating lives seems so much more exciting than it really is. Or maybe it is that much more exciting, and you're on the sidelines viewing something through social media and feeling almost this FOMO. Why don't I have that level of excitement and novelty with dates? So I kind of want to get your take on just this concept of, honestly, just having so much more of a lens on people's personal lives and what they're up to and how they're spending their time. Yeah, no, I mean, I really do think that people should treat. Dating and how you move through the world with whoever you're dating as a friend, as any relationship that you care about. And just being focused on the best possible experience that you just happen to be having with someone you're considering to be in your life. If we went about it like that, I think that also does take that pressure off of, what is this? What are we? Just live life with them and see how it is. Because guess what? If it does become a real relationship, that's what you're gonna be doing. It's like living more life with them. So it's like, I think, I'm sure you've heard before too, it's like there's this honeymoon period, especially in the beginning where you feel like you're doing a lot and you're almost presenting not the most authentic version of yourself perhaps, or maybe your partner, you felt more your partner did that or whatever. But I think figuring out a way to show your most authentic self in that early time is huge. Yeah. I couldn't agree more with that because you're so right. Dating is just seeing whether or not you have mutual lifestyles and then also that you're working toward – maybe you're not 100% there, but you have a shared vision of what that lifestyle is for yourself that you crave. I remember when I was dating my partner, we were at different points in our career. And I remember at one point, someone raising a flag to me being like, are you concerned about something involving his career and where he's going?" And I was like, no, because we've already aligned on it might not look a certain way right now, but we know where we want to go. We have the same goals. So I think that's a really interesting concept that you bring. Up. Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. I mean, I laugh because I remember when I met Nick in the bar, he was like, oh, I work in finance, whatever. So I was like, cool. Sounds great. I don't really know what that means, but sounds like impressive answer. And I laugh now because I know now that that he was like pretty much at the earliest stage of that. Ladder. And luckily, I was like, this guy is so charming and so smart that I have no doubt he will find success in whatever he chooses to do. And he has. But it is funny because looking back, I'm like, I didn't know what I was getting into. Well, yeah, 100%. You're like. Okay, so you're a bartender? No, no shame in that. It's just more like making sure that you have have an aligned vision because really, at the end of the day, that can cause a strain on a relationship in a much more longer-term commitment. So I think it's very interesting, which I guess kind of leads to my next question for you, which is, if you find somebody early on who doesn't enjoy doing the same activities or is disinterested maybe in some of doing the same things that you love to do, not all of them, just maybe like, let's say it's like you have top two things you love to do, and they're just like really disinterested in that. Is that a deal breaker or is it not? I think it's an opportunity to see if maybe there's sort of this hidden common interest that you just haven't discovered yet. You know, like I used to say, you know, if we were on Cobble and we both swiped right on rock climbing, and I've never done that, nor Or has he ever brought it up? But all of a sudden, it's a match. And we're like, oh, didn't know we wanted to both do that. I think there's so many examples of that, where shared passions can be discovered together later. Now, in terms of say there's something you absolutely love and they just hate it, I'm trying to think of an example for us. I'm a huge reader. My husband, not as much, though he slowly is jumping on that bandwagon with me. He will never say no to hopping into a bookstore, right? It's not like he's dying to buy a book, but he knows how much I absolutely love it. So I do think it's important that even if your partner doesn't like. Fully love the same things that you do, they need to be down to support it. Maybe a better example, too, is he loves to play golf. I don't. And I use the time that he goes to play golf to do the thing that I love to do. Right. Like kind of a win win. So having that separate time, too, is crucial. I like that you bring up the point of finding new shared interests because it's so much more explorative. I'm thinking of a handful of instances where there are things that I would have never done on my own terms because I don't know as just my own being on my own if I would have enjoyed it as much as a shared experience that I brought in a partner with or a group of friends and we discovered we loved doing something together. I think that's actually – you're hitting the nail on the head. It's really an opportunity to add more to your plate and not worry about eliminating or feeling like something that you enjoy solo needs to be something that you bring someone else into. Yeah, and at the end of the day, we all love to eat, right? So make your thing going to find good food. I think that we all have to eat. We all like to eat good things. So whether it's a dollar sign sliced shop or it's a Michelin star or whatever, that should always be an. Adventure. Yes. I love that. That's a great one. Okay. So what are your kind of like hot takes on. Like what are some of your favorite first date ideas if you were to list off a few? Oh, man. I mean, I think this is maybe controversial, but I definitely think going to like a comedy show throws you really into the deep end quickly, especially if you're up front and there's is an opportunity for you to get picked on by the comic because they'll ask, how long has this been going on or whatever? And a first date is always sort of awkward, but also could be a great story, right? And you get to see how they act under pressure, and they get to see how you act under pressure. And at the end of the day, you're just laughing hysterically. So first date, amazing to do a comedy show. If you're in New York, definitely go to Cafe Wa to get a cocktail, and then walk down the street and go to the comedy cellar. That's the best combo date in my mind. I love that so much. I like that you're putting people in kind of these more... Not high-pressure situations, but just being like, why not? Like, let's jump in deep and get your feedback. It's the same way with certain sports. I love playing sports with people, too, because you can immediately get a judgment of someone's character. I know I play in a tennis clinic, and I know some people who met on first tennis dates. And they were like, oh, yeah, I could immediately tell if I was into this person or not based off like their level of competition or, you know, just that level of sportsmanship. Yeah, if there's a thing that was out and it wasn't out and you're like, that's a huge red flag. It's not like a cheater. No, it's so true. And I think, yeah, anything that's sort of unique and a little different, maybe for like a first, first date, it's always good to grab a coffee, keep it casual, remove the alcohol, remove the the burden of an expensive meal and things like that. Just get a coffee, see if you're vibing. But then maybe that first legitimate nighttime date, do something a little bit more unique. I love that. OK, so then what is your, do you have a spot for maybe a good second date? So we've kind of got first date or preliminary or pre-first date. Preliminary, first coffee, first date, comedy show. Second date, ooh, OK, this is such a good question. No one ever asks about the second date. I would say, yeah, maybe doing something a little bit more like physical to see if there's an attraction in that way, like going rollerblading at one of the beautiful piers. There's so many different cool outdoor roller rink type places. That could be really interesting. What else? I mean, I love your tennis idea, especially because my husband and I love playing tennis. It's a good one. But yeah, anything physical. I think could any reason or excuse to like. Touch in some way, I think could be really unique. And not only does that tell you if you're like into them, but it also tells you if you're like, don't touch me like I'm interested in this person. Yeah, it's very clear quickly. I think so too. Yeah, you'll be able to pick up on body language and chemistry really quick. Okay, so I love this. You're like, we haven't even thrown a dinner in here, which is crazy. Like we're just like food is always required. It goes without saying. Comedy show, I say grab a casual counter-standing moment if you're going to do the physical activity, maybe a little bit more of a heartier, sit down a burger maybe, something like that. But no, food is not negotiable. Food needs to be part of any outing. Even at the coffee date, get a pastry. Absolutely. Oh, you're such a gal after my interest. I love this. OK, so I think that with dating decision fatigue, I think a lot of people feel like this major pressure around, especially if we're speaking heteronormatively, if we're talking about women and men dating. Queer couples definitely do this a lot better. Let's put it that way. But if we're speaking heteronormatively, I think there's a lot of pressure around expectations of having that really good activity down or making sure that you're nailing that great first date. So what are your thoughts on maybe even leveling the playing field a bit and making sure that you're coming at a first date from a place of not having too much pressure around it, if that makes sense. No, something we say all the time on our team is how important collaborative agreement is, and making sure that no matter what the end choice is, the end decision is, is that everyone had a say and everyone's bought in. And I do think that that takes some of the pressure off. Usually, there's a planner and someone who does all the work, does all the preparation, makes the reservations, picks all the times. And then there's what we call the aggrier, who just is like, yes, no, or I don't know, which is the most probably annoying response. And something that we really try to do is to make it so that someone does kick off. Someone has to start the plan. Someone has to say, should we do x, y, and z? But ultimately, we want people to pick, both feel like they had a say and that ultimately there was a consensus on what is going to happen. And then you create that experience of looking forward to something equally and jointly. Yes. There's also something that doesn't yet exist in Cobble, but it's something that I am personally a huge fan of and that I would love one day to incorporate into the product, which is this idea of surprise. And I think surprise can be done really, really well well with the use of technology down the line. But for example, my husband and I do this thing Wednesday Surprise, where every other week we switch on and off. And he just says, be ready at this time. And we're getting in the car, and we're going to this place. And then we just show up, and we go, and it's so exciting. And it's like, you know you have plans, but you don't know what it is. And it's great because then it also is like, you do it one week, I do it the next week. And it's very equal. And it feels like we're both putting in this effort. Ultimately, to really confirm that you'll love the experience, whatever that surprise is, that I think Cobble could be really cool with, is we already know what the matches are in terms of what you like, what they like. And so if the one partner could just pluck a match that they know their partner already said they liked and make that the Wednesday surprise and just sort of have this mystery thing on your calendar that's shrouded in gauze, essentially, And it tells you the address, but nothing else, I think, could be so, so fun and ultimately get everybody out still. Oh my gosh. I love that concept so much. And I think you touched on a really important piece, especially in longer term relationships, which is really this idea of novelty and making sure to keep that spark alive. Because you talked about earlier that honeymoon phase. It's so easy to be excited and motivated to do things like that. But tell me, I guess, first question, How did you and your partner decide that you wanted to do Wednesday Surprise? I'm sure it started with my husband. He coins everything and is like, when's the surprise? So it started. But yeah, it is so important to surprise. Also, I think it does make sense in the earlier days too because it just shows a thoughtfulness that hopefully you can carry through with the rest of the relationship too. But even in the beginning, I mean, perfect example was that 48-hour date. I had mentioned briefly that I liked that movie Whiplash, and he surprised me with that underground jazz band. So it still was a surprise, but it was something that I had brought up. And so there was that kind of, you can take early cues from people too while you're dating to do things like that. I love that. OK, so we were talking to you about, or you had mentioned the archetype of the planner and then the more passive. Planner and aggrier. Yes, planner and aggrier. So I actually was speaking to someone. I had given a talk and they came and spoke to me afterwards and they were like, I have this issue where I am so chronically the planner that I kind of have like overridden my partner's potential. In even thinking that they could be someone to make a plan. Like I think I've just bridged the gap too much. I'm way too much of a planner. What do I do about it? So I'd love kind of your feedback on if you feel like people kind of like sunk in too deep into these archetypes, how do you break the loop? Yeah, no, oh my gosh, that's such a beautiful question. And I think that there obviously needs to be some giving up of the reins a little bit, right? And I think that one way that they could potentially go about that is like to still lean into their planner sort of disposition and just say like, hey, next Wednesday, I'm going to block our evening, but I would love for you to like surprise us. And I want to do something that you want to do. Let's do something that gets you really excited. And don't even tell me what it is. I'm just going to show up and going to be part of it." And that's where you let go of the control. But at least you set the frame of like, this night, and I'm going to prepare myself for it. And I'm just excited to see what you come up with. Because yeah, I mean, I hate to keep plugging the product. But right, Cobble really wants to take that pressure off the planner in a lot of ways and give the opportunity to the aggrier because it's so easy to plan on Cobble that they want to do it. The reason that there are people who are so vehemently against planning is because it's hard and annoying and stressful and overwhelming. And our goal is to level that playing field so that the planners feel a little less pressure and the aggriers feel a little bit more capable of eating the planners. I love that so much. and you just maybe think too of how, I think it's so frequent to also get in the habit of. Doing the same activities, going to the same restaurants. Oh my gosh. When you find your select five restaurants that you're continually going to, it gets a little bit old. Totally. We always say you either end up doing the same old, same old or not going out at all and just being stuck at home. There is a third option and there is potential to do it. Like I I said, so much of it is just getting ahead of it, is planning ahead. And that's a learned behavior, too. And there's a system that you can get into if you're willing. Yeah, I love it so much. And I think what I love about what you're doing, too, is you're really capitalizing on this modern world, this hyper-digital world. And you're making tech that's allowing people to bridge that gap, to stop the overwhelm. And that's so amazing. I mean, even the other day, I was messing around on chat, GBT, and I think AI has become so interesting, too, where we were just like, OK, date ideas, and we put down our specific neighborhood. And it listed some of our favorite restaurants in hidden, hole-in-the-wall bars. And I was like, wow, these platforms are becoming so intelligent. Of course, AI has a long way to come. I think there's still much more to it, with your product, especially with having a real human being behind it who's curating. But I mean, it's really exciting. Even that, the content needs to be great in order for you to make a decision. But in Cobble's example, we're much more focused on getting a group of people or two or more people to come to a collaborative agreement, first and foremost. So whether that's powered by our brilliant curators or that's powered by chat GPT, because. That becomes brilliant too. At the end of the day, the humans need to find a way to come to agreement, right? ChatGPT can give you six restaurants. How do you decide? How do you decide with the person still, right? So that's where we're focused and excited. Content will always be part of it because the ideas are everything, right? But at the end of the day, our focus and our little slice of tech that we care about is that collaborative agreement part. Yes. I love that. I love that. Okay. So we spoke about first dates. What is your favorite date for a longer term relationship? Good question too. I'm trying to think of something that Nick and I did recently that we just absolutely loved. Well, we were just in Arizona for a wedding and now it's a little sad. I mean, maybe no. I see I'm not even going to do that. We have a 10-month-old daughter and so we have to figure out now how to incorporate her into our plans, but that's like a whole new beautiful sort of opening of opportunity. Like, we went to this really cool desert botanical garden, right, because that was an easy thing to bring her to, and it sort of made us, I think the cool thing about having kids too is you revert back to this childlike experience and state, and you get to like play, and you get to do things that maybe you wouldn't do normally. But the desert botanical garden, that'd be cool, whether you have a kid or not. It was like news. Look at this, pointing things out. Anything that's about discovery and walking and active, I feel like is such a great date for someone that needs to do something different. Great long-term, great family date. I love that. Okay, so how has your dynamic with your partner, the way you date, the way you do things evolved now that you're like growing a family? How has that, have your role shifted in any ways? I'm curious. You know, I don't think so. I think the roles that you had before you have a kid sort of just make complete sense with a kid, right? Like at the end of the day, I still will probably drive a lot of the different things that we do with her, and he's as much as he can be supportive in making it happen. That's his role. I'm the idea person. He's the make it happen guy. And so that sort of remained the same. Now, of course, she goes to bed at 7 o'clock. So I'd say that's the biggest change is everything has got to be done before that, or we got to find a sitter. These are crazy things. Someone always used to say to me, when is the babysitter plugin gonna be added to your app? And I was like, oh my God, like, stop, I don't care. I don't have kids. And now of course, as a mom, I was like, ooh, yeah, that babysitter API is looking really cute right now. Oh my God, I love that. No, I trust anyone with your kids. Like, I don't know. I did not know what to expect. I thought I was gonna be that mom that was like, bye, we're going out on a weekend trip and like, you're good with your grandma or whatever. And I am not like that at all. I'm like, she's coming with us, obviously. This is our third wheel forever. You never know how you're going to react. That is so funny. Oh my gosh, my parents were very much like, see ya. But good for them. Maybe I'll get like that when she's a little older, perhaps. But yeah, for now, I'm like, she's never leaving my side. Yeah, I mean, yeah, right. She'll enter her terrible twos or whatever they call it, and you'll be like, bye. 100%. 100%, exactly. That's so funny. Okay. So, what are kind of along those lines, what are some of your tips for like really keeping a spark alive? You mentioned that you have kind of this really fun element of surprise that you throw in, but what does like relationship maintenance look like for you in terms of like how you keep engaged and keep things novel. Yeah. I mean, I think just finding any way to stay connected, something that my husband and I have been really thinking about a lot recently is meditation. And it's all this inner work stuff that we're just curious about on our own. But when you bring it together too, it just becomes such a huge reason to connect. And I remember reading something about radical generosity. And it's this idea that you're not kind of going tip for tap, right? Like, I did the laundry, so you should do the dishes. Or I did this, so you need to do that. And it's just like, I have the capacity to do the laundry and the dishes. So I'm going to just do both. And when you both have that mindset, you are just in a happier household. You're very much grateful for your partner for doing something. And then you're more, it's just sort of the thing that keeps stacking up. And I think when you really do inner work and then do that inner work together, there's nothing that sort of gets you more connected than that. And then when all else fails, watch a really, really good fucking show in bed at night. And be like, so excited and jump in the bed and be like, Succession, let's fucking go. Yeah, I love that. I think with the radical generosity, you really hit on something that I think I want to dive into a bit more because when you have such a good point of when you're just both in a space of giving like that there's less room for resentment which I think is a huge thing that couples struggle with so I guess my question around that is. Like, were you always in a space of radical generosity or were you ever like, were you keeping score? Of course, always. And it's still it still is in waves, right? There's days where we're feeling radically generous and there are days where I'm like. Pick up your shirt because I'm tired of that. So it really just depends. Right. But I would say the more we focus on that, the the farther apart the days are where we get into a thing about roles and responsibilities, and I'm doing this and you're not doing this. The more you work on it, the few days that, I'm speaking gibberish, but the less that that happens. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I'm curious to know as well, do you guys do relationship check-ins? Or would you say that you have that in a more formal process? Or are you people who just kind of touch base regularly in a more organic sense? So currently, definitely more organically, but it's so funny that you bring that up because my husband actually just came to me and was like, I heard about this thing called relationship check-in where we actually plan an hour to sit down maybe over a meal or maybe not, but we sort of bring to the table, what's going on with your career? What do you want to accomplish right now? Where are you feeling stuck? Where are you feeling supercharged? And when he said that, I was like. Oh, my God, you're right. I just assumed we were sort of talking about that all the time and in between meetings and running around. We're both working from home. But it's so true. I don't we don't have that dedicated time to be like, how can I support your life feeling fulfilled? You know, like what is going on? Let's not be just constantly talking about our daughter or just literally surviving right between day to day. And so that is something that we're looking to incorporate. And I will let you know how it goes. Yeah, please do. Oh my God, I'm so passionate about relationship check-ins because I think. There's so much people think of it in a very rigid sense, but I think you can really make it what you want. You do it. Has it been successful for you? Oh yeah, I do it. I made, I'll link in the show notes, guys. I made a really cute Instagram guide to how to do a relationship check-in. But basically, for us, I think we're much more organic with it. We don't have like a set time every month that we're like having a check-in, but we kind of just go off of intuition, each of us being like, hmm, it's been a while since I just literally asked you, how are you doing? You know, like, how's life? How's stress? How's your happiness? You know, and I think, how are we doing? What do you want to incorporate more in our dynamic? And so, I think it's such an important way to just like recalibrate. And there have been plenty of times where, you know, we've gone into a relationship check-in and then been like, oh, dang, I didn't realize things felt so off-kilter. It's a really great way to just be like level-set or be really mindful about something that might be bothering someone that they hadn't really felt was that important to bring up, but it was really getting on their nerves. So I love it, and my tips around it are make sure that you don't do it at a sensitive time. And by sensitive time, I mean, right after a crazy hectic workday or when your kid just went into a tantrum and then. Whatever, pick a de-sensitized... Definitely not after a fight or in a fight or, anything like that. Yes, yes. That's what I wanted to say, a neutral desensitized time. And your husband's right on the money with dinner, I think is great. Cause you're just like, you're enjoying a pleasurable meal. If you're out to dinner, you know, there's no room for like a blow-up. You can kind of like regulate if you're in the kind of a more like high sensitive like. Pressure cooker moment. If you go out to a more public space, it does keep things at a more controlled level. So not saying that anybody's there, but yeah, that's kind of my two cents on it. I am a huge fan of the relationship check-in. I'm incorporating this into Wednesday Surprise. Maybe it doesn't need to be every Wednesday, but one Wednesday Surprise a month, we'll do our relationship check-in. Yeah, you're like, not too much constructive feedback, okay? It's not so much I could take. No, I love it. It's really so great and yeah, I was also going to say it helps so much with intimate life too and figuring out, especially when things get really hectic. I've had many relationship check-ins being like, dang, life has gotten so busy. How can we take some time for us? We've come to this kind of circles back to your product and everything with Cobble, but. Like come to the conclusion of being like, I think we need a weekend getaway, you know, like something a little bit more substantial than just like an activity that lasts a couple hours. We're like, oh, we need like a full weekend. I love that. Oh my God. Hit up Cobble, tap that mini getaways filter and you're off. Oh my gosh. Okay. Wait. So tell me more about like how you've actually curated some of these experiences. Like, is it you behind the the scenes? Like, what does your team look like? Are you guys like avid researchers? Are you someone who are you always traveling to just like, make sure you're finding all the newest and coolest spots? Luckily, I can very much rely on the on the content team to make sure everything is gorgeous and amazing in app. But yes, we have what we call city content producers who have boots on the ground in the cities were launched in which we are now officially in seven. We are in New York, LA, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Austin. I think I said all of them. But I literally, we were in New York for two years. And in the last four months, we've launched all the new ones. So it's kind of a crazy time of growth over here. But we have these city content producers who have boots on the ground in these cities. They're sort of the in the know folks. They are ambassadors. And they produce what we call collections. So you can see a collection in Kabul, for example, that's like when you're in the mood to dance or when you have to impress the in-laws. Or they're very editorial, very specific. That can sort of kick off this planning process where then you can collect a couple of options, shoot it off to everyone who's involved to vote, and then the plan is decided. Almost think of it like a doodle but for plans. So it's got, and it literally is a Doodle-esque feature in it too, where you can vote on the date and time that you're all free. That is so cool. I'm really excited that you developed this because I am so sick of my, Google stars and fending for my life on – Anytime I travel, I'm on all these different forums trying to get the best guides and I'm just so happy that you've synced it up into one nice homepage, hub spot, if you will. So much. Yeah, no, that's definitely the idea. I certainly felt like I had all of these lists everywhere, right? Like a bunch of pins on Google Maps and a bunch of saves on IMDB of what I was going to watch. I just had lists, lists, lists everywhere. And it wasn't like I was making it through it. I wasn't like doing the things. It seemed like when I was down to finally click play on something or go to something, I was like, what do I do? Like, it was still... They disappeared all the list in the moment where you need them. That was definitely part of the goal of Cobble. Yeah. So great. I started on – I have my own notion page that I make for basically just my life and I have this whole list of date ideas that I started kind of just scribbling down because you're so right in the moment. You're like, what the heck do I want to do? But you have this whole library of things just randomly floating in the ether. So I really like that it's all succinct in one spot. It gave me a product idea to allow people to easily add their existing list, whether that's Notion or Google or Notes or wherever they keep that to just drop it into Cobble so that they can use the actual decisioning system really easily on those ideas that they already have. Yes. You're having an impact on the product. I love it. I'm so excited to just be a part of it and watch it grow. I mean, I just am very, very excited on really how you've kind of capitalized this entire space. OK, as we're wrapping up here, what is your best advice around, I guess, just dating in general, connecting with people, and just really finding the time and space to do that in a very authentic way? What is your kind of advice around authenticity and connection. Yeah, it's interesting that you say authenticity and just being sort of natural. And because my go-to was like, you got to take a look at the next three months of your calendar and be like, where can I circle some free days and put stuff in there that makes me excited and has me looking forward and it's enough time ahead that I can loop in the people that I care about, whether that's a significant other or that's a friend or that's whoever, and get something booked. Get a reservation, get a plan together. And it not only gets you out there and feeling surprised and delighted in whatever it is you choose to do, but it really is so important for us to have things to look forward to and not feel like it's sort of this monotonous life. And so I think when you couple really great ideas with really great people, and you have that on the horizon, that's the best thing you can do for yourself. Oh, that's the best advice. Because I mean, really, if you're not doing that, your schedule is filled up with other people's shit. Like, it is literally, like, it's going to get filled. So you might as well get ahead of it and put down some really exciting things that you're looking forward to. It's just the best way. I swear by that process. Completely. So yeah, that's our goal is to help more folks do that. I love it. Jordan, this is amazing. I am so happy that we had you on. My very final question for you, what is currently hanging out on your bedside table? Oh, OK, let me think. I have an addiction to books, as I mentioned earlier. So I usually have a stack of about the next seven or eight books that I'm going to read in order. So at the top of that right now, I'm reading East of Eden by John Steinbeck, which I promise I'm not usually that person that's like, I'm reading the book that was assigned in high school. I never. This is a book that my cousin Cody was like, you have to read this. And I've never read it before. So I'm reading that. But I just finished the ACOTAR series before, A Court of Thorn and Roses, complete opposite of what used to be then. So books, I usually have a glass of water, my charger, a little lamp, and that's pretty much it. I love it. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us. Tell us where we can connect with you, download the app, learn more, keep up with all the updates coming because clearly we just listed six new updates. Always something. Yeah, you can find us in the App Store if you just search Cobble, C-O-B-B-L-E on social, Instagram, TikTok. Our TikTok intern is incredible. You can find us there on at Try Cobble. Our website's trycobble.com and you can keep up with me on Instagram at Miss Jordan Scott. Thank you so much, Jordan. I'll link everything in the show notes and I I can't wait for people to just like get their hands on all the swiping and saving. It's going to be great. Thanks so much, Tatiana. Oh my gosh, Tatiana, this was so much fun. Music. Love this episode as much as we did making it. If you have any feedback, questions, or suggestions for future episodes, or if you just want to chat, don't hesitate to reach out to us at The Bedside on Instagram and TheBedside.co online. You can also find us at ByTheBedside on TikTok. To stay updated on our latest episodes, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform, and if you found this episode valuable, I would so greatly appreciate if you could leave us a rating, a review, text it to a friend, share it to your Instagram stories, let's get this message out there loud and clear. Until next time, thank you so much for tuning in, and I'll see you later. Music.