Bedside

The (Money) Talk: Financial Intimacy with Emily Luk

• Bedside • Season 1 • Episode 126

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Are you the person wondering if you're "doing it right" when it comes to your finances? Does the idea of merging finances with a partner overwhelm you? On today's episode, Emily Luk is here to ease your woes on all things financial hygiene and intimacy. She breaks down the dreaded money talk and the importance of open conversation around money in relationships. Plus she shares tips on how to get financially secure, feel empowered, and get excited about achieving your biggest life goals. HINT: you can plan your way to anything you set your mind to!

On this episode we cover: 

  • financial intimacy
  • reframing the money talk
  • co-investment
  • merging accounts
  • FU funds
  • financial hygiene
  • budgeting
  • living the life of your dreams

Exciting offer from Emily and her team: use our exclusive link to get started using Plenty

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Transcript


[0:00] Music.


Introduction and Excitement for Today's Topic


[0:29] Hello, everybody. Welcome back to The Bedside Podcast. If you're new here, very, very warm welcome to you. You've landed on a great series and a great episode. So I'm excited to have you here. And if you're a longtime listener, welcome back to the party, people. Excited to get into today's topic. What's so awesome was a couple weeks ago, I released an episode on the love money connection with Madeline Monroe.
And I'm not even kidding guys, your feedback on that episode was epic.
The amount of DMs I got of people being like, holy shit, this came at just the perfect time, or people just saying how they have never really thought about how love and money are so deeply connected, how intimacy and money are so deeply connected, and how much they learned from that episode was amazing.
I'm just so happy to hear how much that resonated. So you guys are gonna love this week's guest.
So today on the show, I have Emily Luck. She's the CEO and co-founder of Plenty, which is a first of its kind financial platform that helps couples invest and plan for their future together, which is so exciting because prior to Plenty, Emily was involved in the scaling of two very prominent FinTech companies.
She was the VP of strategy and operations and she's been a founding member.

[1:51] On the finance and strategy team at Stripe.
And so she started her own company based off of, and I won't share too many details cause you'll hear on this episode, but she started her company actually when she took a break from working.
And from there, her and her partner came up with this idea for Plenty, which is all about how people and couples can begin to plan their futures financially, which honestly is kind of a loaded topic, especially on its own.
And when people come together in partnership, in dynamics where they want to merge finances, it can be even more complicated.
And that's why I'm so excited that I had Emily on the show today because we are talking all things financial intimacy, reframing the money talk, and what co-investing and merging accounts really looks like, especially in this current age, right?
We talk on the episode a lot about how many of our financial models are so outdated based off of like antiquated systems around marriage and relationships and certain expectations and having men be the breadwinners and women be these people who stay at home and just like clean and cook.
And so the world has shifted so much, but a lot of our financial systems haven't caught up to that.
And so it was really exciting to actually talk about what budgeting, what financial hygiene and what living the life of your dreams looks like.

[3:17] With money and intimacy in this contemporary age, in the modern digital age.
So, I cannot wait for you to listen to this chat.

[3:28] It's so great. And I also want to say before we even get into this conversation to make sure to check out the show notes because I'm linking below a amazing offer that Emily is giving to bedside listeners to get started. If you're in a dynamic, even on your own, you don't need to be partnered up to use her app, but it's also great for bringing in any sort of partnerships as well.
It's got a great UX for bringing in other people into what co-investing can look like, And it is so exciting. So make sure to check out that offer in the show notes after you listen to this episode.
I promise you're definitely going to want to take advantage of that.
But without further ado, please welcome Emily to the Bedside Podcast.
And let's talk about financial intimacy.

[4:10] Music.


Money and Relationships: The Interconnectedness


[4:19] Hi, Emily, welcome to the Bedside Podcast. I am really, really excited to have you here today because we are talking all things financial hygiene, just money talk in general, all the things that I feel like a lot of people shy away from.
So hello, welcome to Bedside.
Thank you so much for having me, Tatiana. I can't wait.
So okay, we were kind of briefly chatting off air, talking a lot about how money and relationships and intimacy are so interconnected.
They cross many paths. And I guess I kind of like wanna get a really high level understanding from you from the get go, Like how is money connected to our relationships?

[5:02] I mean, I think they're an integral part of it. If you think about, you know, you meet someone, you start falling in love, you start dreaming of the future. What does that future have? What does it contain? For a lot of folks, not for everybody, everyone has their own path. Everyone, every relationship has their own dreams. And for many people, they dream of building a home together.
They dream of building a family together. And those things all take financial resources. It doesn't just happen, unfortunately. And especially in today's world, if you plan towards it, it can can be a lot less stressful down the road if you have more of the financial resources to buy that house, to send your kid to daycare, to do what you dream of doing.
I think so much of actually relationships being able to dream, money is actually just tied directly to that.

[5:49] Yeah. It's really interesting. I was thinking about it before we hit record and I was like, I feel like, and you tell me if you believe in this and give me your hot take on it, but I feel like you're either raised talking about money or you're not?
Yeah, you're absolutely spot on. And I think for the majority of people, you're actually raised not talking about money.
And then it's almost like this scary thing where we never learn in school, we never talk about it at home.
Friends don't really talk about it because generally it's not a thing that you're like, this is how much I earn.
How much are you spending on rent? It's not a thing people feel comfortable talking about.
There's so many layers of shame, not knowing, feeling like maybe I should have more, maybe I should do something differently.
And I think it leads to actually a really unhealthy dynamic where there's an opportunity to feel like you're on the same team with a partner. And maybe you're leaving that on the table, because you're you just don't know how to talk about money.
Yeah. And it's really interesting, too. And this is really where your product, I think, comes in and what what you've built with plenty, which is that I feel like kind of current models up till now have not really...

[6:54] Adapted as quickly as a lot of our cultural changes, right? Like, I grew up in a dynamic that was super heteronormative, like, you know, the male is the classic breadwinner, female leaves to raise, you know, starts job, but like, then has kids and leaves job to take care of family.
And so like, these are really like old dynamics. And I mean, so many of our financial systems, I'll have you probably probably like, yes, I know, I'll tell you all about it.


Shifting Gender Roles and Outdated Financial Systems


[7:23] So many of our financial systems are really based off of these antiquated relationship models, which is so interesting. And, you know, now we're in a time and place where gender roles have shifted so much relationship roles, career roles have shifted so much, and there haven't been systems that have like quite met up. So I find myself at an interesting crossroads being like, so what does financial planning look like in 2023? Yeah, you're absolutely spot on. If you look at, you know, one or two generations ago for heteronormative relationships, because that's where most of the data is at this point, unfortunately, 85% of husbands were the primary or sole breadwinner. And fast forward, you know, it's 2023, actually 80% of relationships.

[8:09] Have dual career couples where the people are both working partially out of necessity, partially also out of empowerment and independence, because it's now possible and is now normal to. And what has dramatically changed is when one person is the primary breadwinner, when the husband historically was, the default way of managing money within a relationship.

[8:28] Is every single thing is joint, mostly out of necessity, right? Because one person's not earning. When you have dual career couples, what we found is that the default way of managing money is a yours, mine, and ours model, where there's still some pocket that's we consider mine, there's still some pocket that we consider yours and then there's still some amount that we consider ours together. And whether that is 10% ours together, whether that's 90% ours together, every single relationship is.

[8:56] Different. But we now found that that is the most common way couples are managing money. But when you talk to your parents, they probably are telling you all about how they fully join everything. And so that's actually normally where people in our generation, they're trying to figure out like, is what we're doing even normal. And it absolutely is. But no products have been really built around that.
And fintech companies and banks especially have never built around that because they're still in the legacy model of everything is fully joined or everything is fully separate.

[9:25] Until now, though, until we started building Plenty. Yeah, it's so interesting. So what was kind of the modeling that you grew up


Personal Experiences and the Need for a Change


[9:32] with around finances and kind of where are you today currently?
Yeah. So for me personally, I very much more grew up in that dynamic where my father was the one who was managing the finances. My mother was the one who was aware of to some degree, but less so involved. Ironically, though, my parents actually started a company together. And so they were very much dynamic where my mom was like much more of a business person, but still earned the money and then handed it over to my father.
And that I would say is what we hear a lot of times when people talk about how their parents managed the money. And for us, part of what catalyzed Channing and I, who's my fiance and my co-founder, building this company together was we got engaged.
And when we got engaged, we were like, well, we actually think the healthiest relationship we can have is actually embracing the fact that we are independent people, but we also want to build a life together.
So we actually want to have a way of keeping some things that are separate, some things that are together, and actually having visibility and transparency into all of that.
And so we started looking for products for ourselves. And we're like, surely we aren't the only ones.
We talked to all of our friends, and we started being more and more shocked and surprised.
We're like, how does this not exist?

[10:45] This feels like such a no brainer. We talked to so many people, this is such an important priority.
Why doesn't it exist?
And for both of us, we spent the last decade each in FinTech in Silicon Valley.
And so at one point, we were like, if it doesn't exist, we just have to build this because we know we can help so many people manage their lives and have healthier relationships as a result.
Yeah. And kind of riffing off your concept of building a tool to help something like this, I think a big roadblock and I can even speak for myself personally here, like I have found it really challenging to not only talk about finance, because it's something that has been so culturally hush-hushed. I was raised not talking too much about it, not asking too many questions.
And then on top of it, there's kind of that barrier of, well, where do I begin? And just being like, okay, I guess I'll open an Excel file and try. I feel like it felt so blank.
I was just looking at this blank Excel sheet being like, Where do I even start?

[11:50] Absolutely. And then I think the other end of the spectrum is that if you look at any kind of place where you go invest or any banking portal, the moment you log in, you're either dealing with a completely blank spreadsheet and you're like, where do I begin? Or else you log into one of these portals and you're just bombarded by easily 100 different numbers and you're like, oh my gosh, that's so overwhelming. A big part of how we designed the product from scratch was really building for people where, hey, the vast majority of people don't have a background in finance. And we built for that. And so very much of it is a really more of that guided experience where, hey, we think a great place to start is knowing where you are being able to see everything in one place. And so we give you the ability to connect all of your different accounts, and you can flexibly set what is your private account that you don't share with your partner? What is your personal account, which is something that is yours, but your partner can see and know?


A Guided Experience: Connecting Accounts and Setting Boundaries


[12:45] And then what is your shared together? That's a really important place to start because it at least gives you, and it also makes it a lot more fun, because it gives you a place where you're like, okay, as of, you.

[12:56] Know, July, I am here. And then at the end of the year, like, wow, I made all this progress. And that actually feeds back into continuing to do the right thing.
And that's so important. The next thing that we hear so oftentimes, as people are like, I have these things I know I want to do, we have these things we know we want to do, but how? And so pairing, this is where I am, this is where I want to be and figuring out how to get there.
These are all the different parts of what we do. But it's also, I think, the key parts of what we see great financial planning looking like.

[13:27] Happy to dive into any of those, too, if helpful. Yeah, no, I think this is a great thing because I think what many people feel and what we're touching on is kind of the overwhelm of getting started and even wanting to look at it because it feels like such a beast.
So I'd actually kind of love to hear, for someone who is a beginner in this, let's use me as an example. I was saying that I am kind of at a very interesting crossroads because I've been in a long-term partnership for a while.
We've done a pretty good job being due diligent about splitting things.
And like, we're like constantly Venmoing each other. And it's just like, we've realized that we've gotten to a point where we're like, okay.
We're in it for the long run, where do we start? Feel free to use me as an example, right? Like what are tips for kind of getting started in something like this? I heard from what you said at the beginning was just awareness, right? Like just see everything laid out in front of you.
Yeah. So the way that we think of this is within a relationship.

[14:24] A really important part, and I think one of the most beautiful parts of entering a partnership is that you have this buddy now that you're dreaming and planning life with.
So lean into that. And I think so much of it starts with what are the things that you want to do as an individual? What are the moments, experiences, things like a home that you might want to have individually and together? And actually, a big part of how we built this product is to start with that. Start with the dreaming, start with the goals because it gives you a North Star. It's also really important because it's a very different dynamic than talking about how much you're spending and what the budgeting is, which, face it, no one enjoys that.
It never feels good. And so it's actually much more powerful and it's much easier to feel on the same page with a partner when you start with, what are we working towards?

[15:13] Yes. Like framing the excitement first instead of looking at the stress of things. Exactly.
Right? And it's like, let's dream of the house we want. We believe deeply, Channing and I, we do a lot of visualization in our partnerships.
Let's visualize the house we're working towards. Let's visualize the lifestyle and all of these different aspects.
So we start with the dream, start with the visualization.

[15:36] In our product, what we actually do is if you're like, Oh, I want a three-bedroom house in LA or a four-bedroom house in Atlanta, we walk you through step-by-step how to figure out how much that's going to be. And then a really important thing that is where a lot of people get tripped up is they're like, I don't know how to get there. Where do I put the money? How much money do I need? And so creating a plan, which we fully automated, so it's very, very easy.
It's like two more clicks for y'all. Basically figuring out like, okay, so what's the plan to get there based on where I am today. And so those are the three parts. It's like really the dreaming, the planning, and knowing where you are so you can track your progress. Those are the three things we think are so important to just get started. But leading with positivity actually is the first place. Start dreaming. Start thinking about what you can do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. I love this. This is so aligned with everything we talk about on on bedside, because we're always like, cast the vision for what you want, and then basically reverse engineer that, you know, and figure out whether that's visualization, or if you coin it as manifestation, or whatever it might be.
It's like taking these larger North stars, and then actually creating action items behind it that feel feasible, right?
And you're like on track, which is so, so exciting.


Importance of Financial Hygiene and Tips for Maintaining It


[16:56] I am curious to talk a bit with you about financial hygiene? Do you mind just explaining what that even means?

[17:05] Yeah. So a lot of times, the way that we think about financial hygiene, even within our partnership, it's just making sure we always feel like things are clear. It's literally like when you have great hygiene, it's like things are clean. So there's not a buildup of things. There's not a buildup of money, things we haven't resolved. There's not a buildup of muck around not knowing where we are.
And there's also not like a buildup of not knowing what we're on track for. I think information is so powerful in that way because if you have the information, you are empowered, you can change it.
But if you don't know where you are, you don't know what you're trying to work towards. It's hard to then take the right sets of action in a way that isn't lossy. And so that's actually like a really big part. We actually have five and I can give you like the five hot tips for financial hygiene that we talk about a lot? Yes. So the first one is make it a practice. Put it on your calendar. It doesn't have to be every week at all. A lot of couples we find doing it every month or every two months, but just put it in the calendar and always do it. Even if it's 15 minutes, even if it's 10 minutes, putting in some time is better than no time. And so you just get used to in the relationship, starting to talk about money things together. And after the worst, like one or two times, it gets easier. Just like with almost everything that's new. Second tip is make it fun.

[18:24] So for us, we like listening to EDM music. So we blast some EDM.
We do a little bit of dancing. We light a candle.
It's place smells good, feels good. And then we dive into the money stuff.
And so just whatever that is for your relationship, don't make it feel like work.
It doesn't have to be.
This is super exciting. This is how you two are working towards your dreams together.
So make it feel fun.
Yes. Third thing is focus on the dreams, like I mentioned before.
So really, really anchor on like, this is what we're working towards.
So many fights happen in relationships, especially when people are really focused on what the other person is spending.
And what we found there is that actually is, you know, it's a misalignment, but it's actually much easier to be like, no, no, but what are we doing this all for?
So instead of pointing at each other, you're kind of pointing towards a shared goal.
Fourth part, which I think you guys cover a lot in your podcast as well, which is really sharing your fears, because there's so much of that openness within a relationship, that connecting, that if you hold the fears, you're holding back from your partner.
And that also impairs not just your ability for yourself, but also within your partnership to say, okay, but how do we tackle this head on?

[19:35] And make it something that maybe it was a fear that I had in the beginning of the year, but by the end of the year, actually I've taken the right sets of actions.
We've taken the right sets of actions. And that's an old fear now.
That is so empowering. And that's so important, I think, within a partnership, especially when it comes to money fears, which are the most common thing that keep people up at night when they're deeper into partnership or years pass.
And then the last thing is, I would say, quick tip here is it's going to take time.
Be patient. And so you overspend on one month, that's fine. Your investment portfolio drops one month, that's completely okay.
Just keep taking the right steps and you will definitely get there.
It might be a slightly different timeline, but that's all normal. That's like.


Embracing the Fun and Bouncing Back from Mistakes


[20:16] I love that you say that also great tips. Great, great, great. And I love that it's so rooted in like, let's lead with the fun. Let's lead with the vision. Let's lead with the play, because that's actually what we're here for. Like this is giving us access to that. I have to tell you such a funny story, which is like kind of about your fifth tip about kind of like bounce back and really allowing that. It's a process that takes time and it's not perfect every single minute. So, beginning of June, I did like a spontaneous getaway with my partner and we went up to Ojai, which is, for anybody who doesn't know, it's a town about like an hour and a half north of LA.
It's like kind of right off of the coast of Santa Barbara, just like inland into the mountains.
Stunning, amazing, but it's definitely gotten this more like chic reputation. It's definitely become a hot spot, I guess that's what I mean. And anyways, my partner and I went, it was kind of last minute, we were like really wanting a getaway, we were so excited. And, you know, we had our beginning of the month budget, we were like, oh my god, let's go for it, right? Like, we're seeing all the money at the top of the month, and we're like, let's go. Turns out, we get back from our trip, we look at our spreadsheet, my partner just looks at me and goes.

[21:31] Well, looks like we blew through most of the June budget, and it's like June 4th.
And I was like, shoot. Oh no, we totally like messed up.
But at the same time, we like had a really amazing time, but it was such a funny lesson, right?
And I think it didn't deter us. I think formerly, and this actually goes to another point that I wanted to say where I feel like some of our money isms are linked to our relationship attachment styles. And I formerly was an avoidant. So like, I am someone with money who I'm like, I don't like to look like if I don't see it, like I don't notice it. So I think formerly, I would have been like, ah, and like kept spending, but we kind of recalibrated. And we weren't perfect. And we learned from it.
But at the same time, we were like, Okay, we're gonna be fine. Like, let's get back on track. So I really like that reframe. Yeah, I mean, you're preaching to the choir here.
The first big catalyst for us to talk about budgeting in our relationship was because We had this conversation and I was like, Let's quit our jobs and go travel for a year.

[22:34] And save up towards that. And we did do that, by the way. We traveled for a year during COVID together and actually during that time, we came up with the idea for Plenty. Completely accidentally, that was not the intention of the trip, but it was very much of, hey, we're in this really precious chapter of our life and of where we are in our relationship, where if kids are coming down the pipeline at some point, if we're reinvesting into our careers at the end of this chapter of travel, we don't know when the next time we'll be able to have this travel year of just like indefinite, just having all these adventures. We don't know when that's going to be right. We're incredibly lucky to have been able to do that. But we saved up towards that very intentionally and budgeted carefully. But I think that's actually something that's so important, especially for our generation, which is, hey, they're experiencing you can only have at a certain stage and time in your life. And so the point of financial planning absolutely is not, don't do it. But it's balancing. It's like, how do I... And you all know what that feels like too, when you're like, okay, I've done the work and now what I'm enjoying, I'm.

[23:37] Fully there. I don't have the stress of, ooh, did I... Should I be doing this? Oh, all of the talk in the back of your head, you're like, no, no, I planned for this. Let's do it. Let's enjoy it fully. And then you're also like, ooh, but I'm also doing the right thing for things long term.
And I think it's so much of finding when managing money is like it's finding the balance.
You've got to enjoy your life now.
You're never going to live that day again. But also, you want to be able to set yourself up for also enjoying the future days that are coming ahead too.
And so it's finding the balance between all of that.

[24:08] Yeah. How do you prioritize that? Because I think there are so many times when things can feel really tempting, like last minute things come up, like someone invites you on a trip, or there's like a fun last minute concert that everybody's going to.
Like, how do you kind of begin to prioritize when to say yes, when to say no?
And really, like, I guess, I don't wanna say discipline because I don't want it to feel too strict, but I do wanna understand kind of the balance that maybe even you've began to strike.

[24:42] With your yeses and nos on what you spend on and what you save on.
Yeah. So I think this is actually a really important conversation to have with yourself and then especially within partnership, because I think so much of our mental models around money are actually tied to how we grew up and the family dynamics that we were used to. And I think one thing that's actually really important to just be honest about, because again, if you're honest, then you can figure out how to work with it, right?
Is do you tend to be more of the defer enjoyment and just like save up? And are you actually like much more of like the frugal person who actually is going to really hesitate for those experiences? Or are you going to be in the person who is a little bit more on the other side, which is you're more like, I'm really enjoying now and it might be at the expense.
And for you to have that conversation with the partners, like, just be honest with each other about like, okay, this is where I think I am. And then the answer to when to say yes, is typically much easier to have in partnership because you're like, Oh, I know I have this tendency. So maybe I actually need to make sure that I'm putting a little bit more aside.

[25:44] For the future. What we also find is for people who tend to say yes more often for short-term experiences or immediate experiences, what we actually found is the most common goal for this personality type is having an experience slush fund that they have with their partner.
So it's like, cool, I have some extra money or I didn't make that purchase. I'm going to take that $100 I was going to make or that instead of eating out, we cooked. And so I'm going to take the $100 and put that in the experience slush fund. And so you build up the slush fund where you're like, Oh, I've put this aside and now I have this opportunity and I also have the savings for it.
And I think it feels very different too.
If you're on the flip side of that, which typically I would say is like, I definitely have some of those tendencies where it's like, oh, I'll defer it and just root in a little bit, then it's also helpful to be like, no, no, but I've saved up for that. And so I actually can spend this because I budgeted this in, I planned for this. So when an experience happens, like last minute tickets to XYZ, then I'm like, oh, okay, but this is in the plan. So I don't need to just save for the sake of saving. So good. And I'm really glad that you brought that up, because like, we really do have so many different personality types when it comes to.

[26:56] Wanting to spend and I have even realized like, I'm definitely falling the category of like, it's hard for me to say no. And like, I want to give myself everything that I desire. So it can be really interesting. And I've definitely gotten myself former me has gotten herself in some sticky sticky situations because of that. And I love the idea of creating the slush fund for it, you know, okay, we did decide to cook at home and take the money that you were thinking of going to get takeout, put it in that fund for playing. And I guess a lot of people call that like a fuck you fund, right? Yeah, exactly. And then I think the thing that's super fun about that too, is that it's almost then it introduces notion of, do I really want to have like a meat, like an okay dinner out and you guys know what that means like it's that dinner out where you're like yeah it was all right it was like possible but it was a surprising amount of money for that right emily this is like my worst literally this is my worst ism i cannot stand when i go out to eat spend a ton of money and i'm like i actually could have made a way better meal at home yes exactly and i think that that those types of decisions there's a lot of those all the time which are like that was an all right cup of coffee or like oh i paid for some convenience And not that you never do that, but it's like, ooh, but if I were to put it towards something I really wanted to experience, it's like, that's where the money comes from.
It's like, you want to go on that scuba diving trip to Hawaii?
Like, oh, great. Save up towards it.


Evaluating Spending: Is it a Hell Yes?


[28:26] Yeah. Put the money into that. Yeah. You know what I love about this?
It feels like it's checking in with like, is this a hell yes?
Is what like, for the most part, I mean, obviously we have finances that we aren't hell yeses, AKA paying bills and like electricity and all those things that you're like, I know I need this, but I hate that I have to pay this amount of money.
They're not fun.
But I feel like when we are spending for joy, for pleasure, like going back to that, is this a hell yes?
And if it's not, if it's kind of like a, it's an okay, right, like maybe that's just a moment to evaluate being like, okay, instead of this being an automatic decision, right?
Or like, I'm not even thinking about it, I'm just swiping my card.
Like having the pause, Like, there's something there, right?
Regardless of if you spend or not, like.

[29:11] That pause is really important. Absolutely. And then I think if you think about how investing specifically works, you know, if you're like, Oh, I saved $100 this week, I saved another $100 next week, or every normal human might self-include for sure is mine, you're like, that's $200.
And it's very easy to discount how much that could be if you invest it, and it grows, and you're looking at it five years down the road, because that amount is going to be usually much higher than that. So it's also harder to kind of visualize and instinctively feel where you're like, Ooh, wow, this actually spending this now actually adds up to a lot more down the road. And so it's all is creating some of those checkpoint to where I think one of the most powerful parts that we've seen actually in the product is couples are like, wait, but I'm we're thinking about that house. We're thinking about that honeymoon. We're thinking about having our first child, we're thinking about retiring at 50. And it feels much more like, oh, but I'd I'd rather have that.
So I'm going to put the money towards that. Yeah. It's like immediate reward versus long term.
And that can be really hard psychologically.
For sure. I totally empathize with that. OK, so you mentioned investing.
And I actually think this is a really, really important topic.

[30:22] A lot of people feel like there's even a barrier to entry with investment or they don't even quite understand.
I would love to get kind of your take on, I guess, investing as a couple.
I think a lot of people can understand the concept of like having an investment account that's theirs personally, but what does this kind of look like in a relationship?


Investing as a Couple: Breaking the Barrier


[30:45] Yeah. So a really interesting dynamic that we've seen, and actually, I think this will be helpful for me to explain how our product works here, because I think it actually explains to what you were saying earlier, the barrier to entry for investing.
So this crazy thing, so my background, I'm a CPA and a CFA. In the CFA curriculum, one of the things that you learn very early on are, if you think about all the people who work on Wall Street, think about all the students who trade and they work crazy 80 to 120 hours a week, 80% of them.
Do worse when they're actively trading and that's their entire lives than if you just.

[31:20] Music.


Investing made easy: earn more by doing less.


[31:26] And so it's almost like this dirty little secret, the wealth management industry doesn't want you to know, which is you can earn more if you do less.
They will never tell you that because what they tell you is investing is so hard.
Give me your money and I will do it for you.
And that is so broken, we think. And it's actually was a huge part for why we even started this company was we were like, it shouldn't be that hard.
And so when you come to Plenty and you're like, okay, we have these goals together.
Some of these are buying a house. Some of these are longer term, like having a retirement fund.
What we do is we actually create an investment portfolio for you.
And that is based off of a few different things. So we ask you things like, what's your income?
We ask you things like, if the market drops, what would you do?
Do you think you would panic?
Do you think you would be excited and you would want to buy more?
We ask you just two of those questions.
And the final thing we do is we ask you, what are your values?

[32:22] And this is the part actually for relationships that are very different, where we actually see that the more females get involved, the more actually values comes out in investing where people are like, yeah, I want to invest in companies that empower women.
I want to invest in companies that fight climate change.
I'm not touching predatory lenders like payday lenders or for profit prisons.
And what we see is that there's a new introduction in relationships when females are more involved into thinking about, wait, but what is my money going toward?
And so also one of the reasons why I absolutely love having more people involved, not just because it's healthy for the relationship, but I think it also creates a different world is not having just a default world.
And then what we'll do is we basically say, hey, great, this is how much money you're putting in per month and we do all the management.

[33:07] It's truly two clicks to confirm the portfolio we recommend for you and you can get up and running. So huge thing, you don't need to know a whole ton in order to get up and running with investing.
One of the things within a relationship is just getting started too.
And what we find is that usually there's one person who knows a little bit more about finance than the other person.
And traditionally, that does tend to be the guy in the relationship, but the majority And one of the things that was the most heartening thing that we've learned is that for a lot of times in relationships, these partners, whoever is the partner that is taking the lead a little bit more on finances, they actually, 85% of them want their partner to be more involved.
But they also don't necessarily feel like they know enough that they can answer every question their partner might have. So they're like, it's almost easier for me to just do it for us and not have some of these questions than try to explain it.

[34:02] Yes, yes. They're like, I'm just trying to figure it out too.
Like, I don't have time to answer.
Exactly. Right. Or else they're like, oh, but I'm doing something and I'm not sure how they're like what they're going to do.
So actually, the other things, especially in early relationships, they're like, I just manage my stuff and then they got to figure out their own thing.
And then they realize they've earned zero percent in a checking account, you know, for the last five years. And that's where the partner has tens of thousands of dollars saved up.
And they could have had that growing.
And so what we found is, you know, a big part of how we've thought about this is how do we make it as easy as possible for both partners to just begin investing. And it's basically recommending portfolios for each of you. And then you just start. I know there are some investment portfolio companies that kind of have financial entry point. But where can we actually begin, you know, let's say like, we have $200 that we're like, I want to start investing, like, can we start doing something with that? Yeah. So one of the things that we thought about a lot for Plenty is, and partially this was because Channing and I, we spent the last decade in Silicon Valley, a lot of wealth has been built and created. We've seen that when you have that upper echelon of support, you get access to different financial products. And so our investing product.


Start building wealth with just $100, accessible investing.


[35:21] Other companies offer too, but then they require a million dollar portfolio minimum, or they'll require $100,000 as the initial investment. And for a lot of people, that's pretty substantial. It makes it feel like you need to have even more money in order to get started.
A really important part of how we've thought about everything we'd like to be able to do and support is that it shouldn't require a lot of wealth in order to start building wealth. And so for us, our portfolio minimums start at just $100. So you can just get started with $100. You come in, we give you a portfolio and you say, yes, put the money in, and now you're off to the races.
I love that. Wow. That's so accessible. And I think like a really great way to make people feel so empowered about something as simple as $100, right? Like we can scrape that together.
We can figure that out. We can get going. And so I really love that concept. Do you believe that it is helpful to allocate a budget for something like investment, especially is a couple, right? Because you're like coming in at different points.

[36:25] Absolutely. So the way that we think of this is actually a lot more powerful in a conversation and in a relationship to talk about how much you are saving and investing. How much money are you putting aside? And so that's actually usually a much healthier and I would say easier conversation for people than how much are we spending, even though they're two sides of the same coin, really. But when you're thinking about spending and how much you're saving and investing, you could always save and invest more next month. And I think a lot of times for spending, It gets into a little bit of like, oh, it's hard to feel like I have to cut.
And now you're looking at every single transaction.
You're looking at that $5 coffee you got, and it feels very intense.
And if you instead focus on how much money are we saving and investing individually and together every month, that actually creates a lot more powerful action where people are like, ooh, can I save and invest a little more next month?
And can I save and invest a little bit more next month?
Saving and investing, especially now in such a high interest rate environment.

[37:25] Your money grows, your money works for you. And so the more you're able to increase how much you're putting aside, the more you're able to get to the point where you're like, I just have more things that are working for me when I'm asleep and during the day. And when I hopefully get to a point where it's like, I have so much working for me that I don't even need to work anymore. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that's like so much of the dream. And so absolutely think understanding how much you're putting aside every month for things that are growing for you is a critical part of being able to get to a point where you're like.

[37:55] I can do whatever I want with my time now. Yeah, totally. Oh my God, we want that for everybody. Guys, financial freedom, please. Question, do you think that like a lot of people have different takes on this? So I guess I want to get your take on this. Do you think that it is more beneficial to have cash just sitting in a savings account? Or should we make sure that we're taking some of that and putting it into the market? Basically, how much should we be sitting on versus how much should we be investing? And should we be investing more than what we just keep as cold hard cash.
Great question. So the way that I would think about that is first off when you're putting money aside for saving Not all saving is equal. So when you're putting your savings in a checking account that's earning nothing or in a, Savings account that's earning 1% that is the same thing as like basically doing nothing with it Our cash management accounts offer a four point eight six percent.


Building an Emergency Fund and Setting Financial Goals


[38:57] APY which is pretty much that one of the highest in the country because we really want your money to be working for you when put it aside as savings. And when you're thinking about investing, the way we think about the split for that is to make sure that at first you build up that emergency fund. So if you don't have that emergency fund, and which will guide you through step-by-step, because if you own a house, if you're in different careers, the amount that you need for emergency fund is going to be different from one person to another. So a plenty will help you with all of that. And so what we say is first start off with your emergency fund, make sure you have enough money there, make sure it's very easily accessible in something like a... It's in a vehicle that you can pull out money anytime.
Once you pass that, then start to think about what are the things you'd like to do in the next one year, in the next two years? Again, going back to the goals. And as you're thinking about that, usually if there are goals that you want to do within the next one year, that's a great place to put it into a cash management or savings vehicles. If you have goals that are further out than that, that's really where we start to say, hey, for example, we have a lot of couples who are like, we're working towards buying a house in five years. What we typically say there is for most people, the right decision there is think about investing because that's a far enough away that you can really grow your money over time and over a longer timeframe, usually around like at least if you're investing for over a three-year time frame, your money will almost certainly grow.

[40:24] And especially the longer you leave it in the market. What are your tips for developing an emergency fund?
Yeah, great question. So in terms of estimating, what we've done is we've actually built out a set of questions that we'll ask you. So if you own a house, you need more because your house, you might need to fix a plumbing issue and that's $1,000 more. And so we ask you a set of questions like, are you in a career where if you're looking for a new job, it's going to take you more than in two months? Do you have kids? Do you have dependents? Depending on your answer to that, then what we say is, what are the things that you absolutely need to spend money on?

[41:01] Like your rent, like your food. And from there, we'll say, hey, we think actually you need a four-month emergency fund that might be $16,000. We'll help you with all that estimation process.
And we do think it's important that there's not a single answer. There's not the same number for everybody at all. Everybody is different. Everyone's life looks differently. And then in terms of saving up for an initially, especially if it's your first time really putting aside money, a lot of times, one of the things that we actually do is we track the percentage of completion where you are. So for example, you put in $500, we'll be like, great, you're 5% of your way to the goal.

[41:37] One thing that's just what we see is actually similar to what we were talking about earlier.
It's all of those small distincts where you're like, hmmm.
Do I need that okay dinner that I'm not even that excited about? If not, just take that money and put in the emergency fund and you'll feel how empowering it is when that emergency fund takes from 5% to 50% to 80%. You did that. You put the money aside. You saved up towards that. And then we think that's just a starting point for that. Yeah. I love that. And I love that you developed your dev to have kind of, again, going back to the psychology of it, right? Like, this is an entirely new reframe of what we've been psychologically conditioned to think of around money and how we can reframe it to be something that actually works for us and makes us feel so empowered. Because like when I feel like there's a flip that or a switch that flips, when you enter a space where you're actually more excited to save than you are to spend, because you're seeing the literal reward on the other side, right? Like you said, in Plenty, you'll see the percentage increasing. Some people are just seeing more of the money add up in their bank account and they're like, wow, this is really working. And I think it's so empowering.

[42:53] And we see that especially when people are using Plenty, because you can use Plenty on your own, but you can also use Plenty as a partnership, especially when you're in a partnership and you put in your chunk, then they put in their chunk, then you put in your chunk, And you're like, wow, the number is growing so much faster.
And you just do reach your goals faster. What we found is that also is a positive reinforcement.
When you feel like you're working towards this with your partner, you're actually more likely to be like, I didn't spend that 100.
I'm going to put this towards our shared goal. And then your partner's like, oh, I thought you're only putting in money every month, but you just put in an extra 100.
Okay, where else can I? And then there's a reinforcement of like, okay, I'm going to put in an extra 100.
And it really keeps you working as a team.
Yes, it just made me think like, many people look at the concept of intimacy in like a very romantic and physical way, but there is such a thing as financial intimacy too.
And I think what's so cool is the trickle effects that you'll see from something like.

[43:52] Having a shared financial goal feeling like you're really accomplishing something and working towards something together, like that strengthens so many other facets of your relationship, which is so exciting.
And it's really neat to see all of the different ways that intimacy can form together, right?
Like all the different pillars of it can come together to continue to strengthen your bond. It's so exciting.
Absolutely. Actually, usually what we do, Channing and I ask at the end of any kind of money talk or dates, like we want to give ourselves something to accord to also at the end of that.
So maybe we go to a date night, maybe we have like a burger night and a movie at home, whatever that is.
But usually, we'll try to do something else that we've been looking forward to right after.
And what we find is that, especially when it's right after some of these money conversations we've had, both of us are just... We feel so connected.
We feel so on the same page. And it's actually the perfect setup for a date because we're like, oh, we're such a great team and we're kind of glowing from that.
And then we go into that date night.

[44:52] Yes. Oh my god, that's so good. I love that you pair what might be traditionally seen as a tougher conversation with then like such a reward at the end being like, okay, well, we know what we're going into next. It's not just like the doom and gloom of like hours of talking about finance and working yourself into spirals, right? Like you have it, you have it locked down.
So tell me what is your cadence? How often are you checking in about finance with your partner?
Yeah, so our goal is to do it every month. We're not perfect. So typically what we'll do is like we really try to do an hour per month. And then there have been months where life gets really busy and we're like, okay, we just have 10 minutes and we're just going to quick check in. Like how much we have, how much we save and build from last month? Are we still on track for our goals? And so we'll at least try to have a 10 minute conversation about that.
We do tend to say like roughly, you know, we do aim for 60 minutes. We're really going into like, okay, where did our money go? And were there any things we would do differently next month?
What can we learn from it? And then usually every three or so months, we do have that bigger conversation about have any of our goals changed. Maybe we said that there was something we wanted to do next year but actually I think now that we were further into the year maybe we want to push that out or maybe we actually want that to happen sooner. And so it actually isn't even just a conversation you know, just about money and finances. Usually it's like what are we doing right now with our life? Yeah. And what do we want to be doing? And then how do we make sure sure the money side of things lines up.

[46:21] Yeah, I love that. I find that to be a really good way that part of that conversation for me and my partner is very much intertwined within our travel plans because a big pillar and value of our relationship is travel and exploring.
And I think a lot of people can relate to that.
So we really make sure to, that's kind of a lot of our financial goals and financial planning is around kind of having things to look forward to that we're excited to because we know we're really, really working toward an exciting reward. And I've actually had people and like friends in my life ask me, you know, like, how are you going on these sorts of trips? And it's interesting, because I'm like.


Planning and preparation for financial goals


[47:00] Oh, actually, it's a lot of planning. It's not just like last week, I decided that I'm going to go to Morocco. Like I have been planning this for a year and a half. And, you know, because we've been doing our due diligence, you know, we've already paid for the hotel or the Airbnb six months prior because we've been planning so far in advance. So I really love this and I like that you kind of frame these check-ins as just a recalibration of like, are we on track? Is this still a goal of ours? Like, have our timeline shifted in any way?
So it's a nice way to just roll with what's happening, you know?
Yeah, I mean, I think for us, it's an opportunity to reflect both about, you know, how the last chunk of time has gone, what we want the next chunk of time. So money is part of that, but it ends up really just being more like a relationship check-in oftentimes. Yeah, totally. Love a good relationship check-in. This has been such a good conversation, Emily. I feel like we could branch off into so many different categories, but I really like that we've kind of kept this in a very bite-sized chunk. And I think that's kind of the whole point of what you're building with Plenty, which I think is so amazing, right?

[48:10] Like, we want this to be attainable, we want it to be easy, we want it to be something that doesn't stress us out, and also works for the modern digital world, the modern relationship.
So I am just really happy and excited to have had you on, and of course, you know, give people access to your app and what you're building.
Well, thank you so much for having me on. It has been such a pleasure.
Chatting is so much fun, just chatting through all these money questions and things that absolutely more people and more couples should talk about.
You will feel so much more connected on the other side of that conversation.
Yeah, absolutely. And my last question for you, if someone's listening and they're like, okay, this sounds really awesome. looking forward to, you know, maybe eventually...

[48:55] Merging finances with a partner, but how do I know when? What would you say is a good way to temperature check when someone feels like they're ready to kind of begin that next step of not only managing their own finances, but kind of figuring out how that works in a relationship dynamic?
Yeah, so one of the things that is the core of actually how we built Plenty and the product is it maps all these different relationship stages, where if you're at the point where you're like, we're planning our first trip together And we want to save up towards it.
Great. You can create a shared goal and work towards it together.
If you're also at the point where we have a lot of couples who are like, we've been married for years, and my partner doesn't even know what we have.
And I want them to know where all of our money is. And I want them to feel part of our investing towards it.
Then we're like, great.
You can get to the point where you're sharing all of your goals.
You're sharing all of your accounts or as many things as you'd like.
So there's a lot of flexibility for that. And I would say that when you're thinking about it from a relationship perspective, it's really, Do you, are you at a point where you're at a stability relationship where you're like.

[49:58] We're working towards things together and we'd like to put money aside and we like to either save or invest. And if you're having those, starting to have those conversations, that's a great time to start. And if you've already been having those conversations and maybe if you're listening to this, you're like, my husband has a spreadsheet or my partner has a spreadsheet and I don't know how to interpret it. And I actually just realized after listening to this podcast. I don't even know how much money we have. That's also a great time because there's There's no better time than today.

[50:26] Yes, I love that. That's so real. And yeah, I can totally relate to that, for sure.
I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining me, like I said.
And we will be linking all of Emily's info and links in the show notes.
So please, please be sure to check out her platform. It's really, really amazing, like you've heard.
And I mean, yeah, let's work one more step toward financial freedom and make sure that we feel like we are, you know, on top of our visions and our pleasures and our desires and feeling like we can attainably get to them.
So yeah, thank you so much for joining us.
And I know that you mentioned you had a fun surprise for bedside listeners.
I'll kick that off to you.
Yeah. So for bedside listeners who have listened to this, first off, thank you for listening.
Tatiana, you are absolutely delightful.
And for Bedside listeners, what we'd like to also give from Plenty is for people who are creating an account, we'll give a special link that Tatiana will pass through in the show notes and we'll give you 25,000 in free AUM.
What that means is we will invest up to $25,000 for you with no investment fee and no management fee for which we normally charge 0.4%.
And we'll do that for a whole year as long as you sign up right now using the link that Tatiana will provide.

[51:48] Oh my God. is so exciting. Thank you so much for generously offering that. I am, I'm already so excited.
I'm like, pass this off to all my friends. You better use it. Get started investing and feel empowered in your financial planning. It's so, so important. And we thank you for this work that you're doing because we need more women in the seat like this who are just breaking through the barriers of the finance bro. I love it. Thank you, Emily. All right, Thank you for tuning in.
If you've loved this episode, be sure to rate, review. You can hit that five star on Spotify, on Apple, leave a review, and of course, make sure to go check out the links, and get your special code from Emily's team.
All right, thanks for tuning in. Bye everyone.

[52:35] Music.


Thank you for tuning in, reach out for feedback.


[52:41] I hope you loved this episode as much as we did making it. If you have any feedback, questions, or suggestions for future episodes, or if you just want to chat, don't hesitate to reach out to us at TheBedside on Instagram and TheBedside.co online. You can also find us at ByTheBedside on TikTok.
To stay updated on our latest episodes, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform. And if you found this episode valuable, I would so greatly appreciate if you could leave us a rating, a review, text it to a friend, share it to your Instagram stories.
Let's get this message out there loud and clear. Until next time, thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you!

[53:21] Music.


People on this episode

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Tatiana Fogt

Host