How important is sex in a relationship? How often should we being "doing it"? Should I stay or should I go? Today sex therapist Nicoletta Heidegger, host of Sluts & Scholars podcast, joins me on Bedside to chat all things sex therapy, getting your needs met, and defining what a healthy sex life looks like.
LA cuties we're having a VISION BOARDING MEETUP!!! Saturday 11/4 🍒 6-9pm
RSVP HERE 💌 : https://partiful.com/e/OlH3agO5tlfOjj9tnfjQ
We're chatting:
📥 Download Monthly Archetype Template
💌 Subscribe to the Sealed List Newsletter
💘 Let's be internet friends!!
Connect with Nicoletta:
Be sure to rate, review, and share this episode with a friend! LOVE YOU!
How important is sex in a relationship? How often should we being "doing it"? Should I stay or should I go? Today sex therapist Nicoletta Heidegger, host of Sluts & Scholars podcast, joins me on Bedside to chat all things sex therapy, getting your needs met, and defining what a healthy sex life looks like.
LA cuties we're having a VISION BOARDING MEETUP!!! Saturday 11/4 🍒 6-9pm
RSVP HERE 💌 : https://partiful.com/e/OlH3agO5tlfOjj9tnfjQ
We're chatting:
📥 Download Monthly Archetype Template
💌 Subscribe to the Sealed List Newsletter
💘 Let's be internet friends!!
Connect with Nicoletta:
Be sure to rate, review, and share this episode with a friend! LOVE YOU!
Music. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Bedside podcast. If you haven't noticed this week, we have some new cover art. I have been working on a little bit of a brand refresh for Bedside. Nothing crazy, but just, you know, a new glow up. I feel like I haven't changed the branding in quite some time. And, you know, we've been evolving. We've been growing, as all of us do. And so I'm really excited to bring you guys a little bit of a brand refresh. If you're a new listener here or if you don't know, I actually come from a brand design background that's kind of like my trade, my specialty. So I love to give things a branded moment. I'm truly one of those friends that like, if there's an event, if there's anything, like I am branding it. I had a, I think people thought it was crazy this summer because for my partner's birthday, We were back in the Midwest and his family like has a pickleball court, which is so epic and I branded like his entire. Birthday gathering I made like pickle fest. I made like, an agenda and stickers and icons and everyone was like, this is so cute. But like, you did not need to do this. And I was like, honestly, I'm just that person who has to brand everything. It's. In my bones. It's in my DNA. So I am so excited to be delivering you guys a little bit of a bedside brand refresh over the next couple weeks, you'll kind of like see new things rolling out. And yeah, I'm just I'm ready for a new era. I feel like I mean, we've already entered it. I I think it just, the visuals have been catching up to a lot of the amazing conversations we've been having here. And, you know, all of the fun intersections that we cross on this entire series, between manifestation, between mindfulness, between sex, intimacy, relationships, all of that sort of stuff. And, you know, it's a beautiful kind of family of topics that we chat about here, and I'm really ready to bring that to our visual identity system. That being said, I hope we are having a good week. I hope you guys are doing well. This week's episode, I am really excited to bring you because first off, I've been recording a lot more in the studio lately, which has just been so much fun to like connect with people in person and of course kind of get more video clips. I promise that I will be bringing a lot of these episodes to YouTube soon. I transparently just like haven't had the time or bandwidth to be able to do that. But soon there's gonna be like a bulk upload of a lot of these episodes, including this one that you are tuned in today. Hopefully it'll be on YouTube soon. I'll keep you guys closely posted on Instagram and the newsletter and everything with that. But today's guest, I got to record in studio with the lovely Nicoletta Heidegger. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist, host of Sluts and Scholars podcast, and a sexologist. And I gotta tell you, I was so excited to chat with her today because we got into so much of the intricacies of partnership. Particularly a lot of the things that people don't want to talk about, people don't want to share. And listen, a lot of us go to Google or TikTok or our search engine preferences to get a lot of these answers around building relationships, staying in relationships. We unpack what it looks like to get your needs met in different relationship dynamics, what that can look like, how that can play out, and really also what it means when you are in a relationship with anybody, whether it's romantic, whether it is friendship, and what it means to be in a position of should I stay or should I go, which I know so many people find themselves in and they don't know where to turn. They feel a lot of shame around it. They feel like they can't go to their closest friends and family for advice because it is quite a shameful thing to experience. So we chat a lot about what it looks like to stay in relationship dynamics, what green flags, red flags are for staying, for leaving. And we even dive into how important sex is in different relationship dynamics, right? Like where should your sex life be in terms of your quote unquote healthy relationship? So this is jam packed. There is so much advice. Nicoletta truly blew my mind on so many different topics. And I'm just really excited to deliver this to you guys because I know these are so many things that we have questions about but don't always have the answers or the right resources to go to. Things like what are the characteristics of a healthy sex life and the importance of having relationship check-ins. So all of these things are on today's episode. With that said, I'm so excited to welcome Nicoletta to the Bedside Podcast. And as a quick housekeeping update, you guys, I want to share with you on the 4th, so this upcoming Saturday, I will be hosting a live vision boarding, IRL vision boarding, monthly archetype. Collaging event, which is so exciting. So I'm going to be hosting this for any L.A. Locals. Please come. I would love to see you there. It's going to be at BB Soft Skin Studio in Atwater. We're going to have like a very cozy Saturday evening. Truly like bring your magazines, come in your sweats. We'll have some nice, lovely natural wines. We'll have some snacks and come make friends. Come meet other people. Vision board for your upcoming November archetype. It's going to be such a blast and I really hope that we kind of begin to do more series like this. My goal truthfully is to be able to bring you guys kind of vision boarding and collaging events every couple months that we can connect together in real life. Just get cozy, make friends with one another and get crafty. I have so many memories And I was actually speaking to Alicia, who owns BB Soft Skin. She's my incredible facialist. And I'm so excited to be partnering with her for this. But we were chatting when I was last with her. She was like, I have so many amazing memories of being in middle school, being in high school, like collaging and getting all of my magazines and cutting things out and just having such a creative process. And she's like, I miss doing that. I want to have an outlet, a creative outlet. And we were just chit-chatting about it. And so we are really excited to bring this to you. It's kind of like your fun high school nostalgia meets manifestation, meets your sexual empowerment and tapping in to your authenticity. I am truly so excited. So if I'll leave more very like granular details on Instagram with an invite. So you can guys go check out my Instagram feed. It will have all of the information there for the event, but it's gonna be at BB Soft Skin in Atwater on November 4th. So I hope to see you there and let's get into today's episode. Music. Hi Nicoletta, welcome to the Bedside Podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. I'm so happy to be here. Glad we could make this happen. I know, we were just saying we had to definitely do some coordination because we each had different travels, and I'm gonna disclose that you were at Burning Man, and you. Yeah, two busy, badass bitches rolling around in the mud of life trying to find a mutually agreeable time. Yeah, yeah. It's like, how about in three months, on a Tuesday at 2.50 for five minutes? Yeah. You know what, thank God for those calendly links. Like, I am just popping those off right and left. I'm like, here, find a time, find a time. But then you got to make time to update the calendar. Sure. Yes. Or if someone booked a time where you were like, shoot, I didn't block off that day. Right. I actually am not available. But here we are. But here we are. We've made it. Welcome to Bedside. I'm so excited. I like a slow tease. Yes. Lots of foreplay. So now we're here and it's like it's been building. It's been built. The tension is ready. To be. So I particularly want to chat with you today about specifically intimate relationships and a lot of the taboos around them because I think you're a sex therapist. First, I guess, do you maybe want to debunk what sex therapy is? Like, is there a difference between regular therapy and sex therapy? Can you explain that for anyone who's like, what the heck? Yeah, Absolutely. Well, sex therapy, we actually talk about sex. And it's sort of like having a general doctor or a specialist doctor. And so I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, so I do see people for all sorts of things. And even when we talk about sex, it's never just about sex. You know, it's important to have knowledge about all the other things because there's so many facets that make up our erotic selves. But sex therapy is usually with a licensed therapist who has specialized in human sexuality. So we have additional training in this specialization. And so most of the people who come see me, their initial reach out is around some type of sexual struggle that they're going through. And then again, it's never just about that, but that's kind of the primary thing. Most general therapists. Out there only get one class, if at all, but usually it's about 10 hours of sex training. And so it's pretty broad, it's pretty vague. And if someone grew up also not feeling comfortable talking about sex, then therapy can kind of become another place where sex isn't talked about. So for me, it's like, this is our main... Yes, I love that. Actually, and I'm remembering now, I wanted to bring this up to you. You did the Widener University program that is in Philly, and I'm from the Philly area, and it's so funny because there was a moment in time where I was like, am I going to go do that program? I didn't go through with it, but I'm very well acquainted to it. It's like. Pretty renowned. I mean, there's not that many programs like that in the States. Yeah, it used to be at UPenn, then they moved to Widener, and when I first went, it was kind of the only program that had a like special kind of recognition that you were able to like actually have it be certified. Now there's another one in the San Francisco Bay Area, California Institute of Integral Studies. There's also other certification programs all around, but it was one of the only higher education programs at like a certified university. So there wasn't a lot to choose from, but it was also great. Now there's a little more, which is good because more people are studying this. Yeah. Which is great. I know, it's so interesting. I'm excited to see that it's kind of resurged in like, the category is expanding. I think for a while it was like, you'd go to like the early internet and be like, where do I get a degree in like, I don't know, sexology? We're like, what is a sexologist? You know, like how do we, right, or sex therapists and like specifically narrow this down and it's kind of been a piecemeal path, but now I love seeing that it's like growing and becoming more of a system. It's so exciting. We need it, we need it. I agree. So I'm really excited to chat with you today, like I mentioned, about kind of like the nuances in specifically intimate dynamics. And I think this conversation feels very timely. I've had a couple of chats with other friends and people who have. Expressed to me, and I was like, okay, this is good timing that I'm having you on the show. Yeah. The idea of getting their needs met in a relationship, and more specifically, not getting their needs met in a relationship. And I figured I'd hone in on this with you for a moment because I know so many people kind of come together in relationship dynamics, romantic, intimate relationship dynamics, and usually like we're in the honeymoon phase, we're kind of overriding a lot of different. Spaces and places, some of us, not all of us. But how do we begin to actually carve out getting our needs met in an intimate dynamic, or at least getting that back if we feel like we've lost that? We're jumping right in. Yeah, I mean, I think first and foremost, a lot of us don't give ourselves the time to actually know what we need and want to begin with. And that's just a thing that happens on a day-to-day, too, where we sort of ask somebody, oh, well, what do you feel like doing? Or do you feel like doing this? And I think we're sort of expected to answer quickly. And so a lot of us don't slow down enough to actually check in with our body and be like, what am I really needing and wanting? Like, what are my core values? How are things aligning for me? Or potentially, we have those shoulds in our head of what we think we should be needing and wanting, and our body's saying something different, but we're like, oh, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to listen to that. And so we kind of get in these wars. So I think, first and foremost, and you can do this while in a relationship, too, but ideally, you're spending some time with yourself before if you're single and dating or looking. But even if you are in a relationship, of taking time to be in relationship with yourself and really actually get clearer on what do you need and want, because sometimes maybe we're able to be like, well, this ain't it. When we're in it, like you know it's not feeling good, but you're not exactly sure what or why or how or when that happened. So for me, it's getting clear, slowing down with yourself, learning a bit more like embodiment to actually feel in your physical being what feels like a yes to me, what feels like a a no from me. And then also. Giving yourself permission to have that, I don't know, which means like, I need more time. To actually check in with yourself. And so for me, I think that's kind of the starting point in this conversation that needs to be highlighted. Wow, that's such a good point that you bring up of that space in between of like, not knowing, knowing, and needing more time, right? Like we don't always have the answers and we don't always need to have the answers right away for what we're seeking or what our desire is. Yeah. I think for me too, a lot of issues have happened too, where I've learned things from past relationships and experiences with myself or with others, and I don't take the time to integrate it. I mean, like, you know, it's kind of like, everyone's really into psychedelic assisted therapy now, right? And these types of experiences, the key for all of that is integration. So you can have this experience, or you can be having an experience with a partner and think that you don't want something, but are you really taking the time to slow down and really like integrate that, meaning like find the bigger picture thing, see how it fits in, see what to do next. So I think a lot of us aren't taking that integration time either. I'm really curious about like this, this note of integration time. Why do you think we don't give ourselves enough time to integrate? Are we bypassing or what is it? I mean, I think for me. It's been a struggle of just like not making enough time for myself. Or thinking that other things, you know, are maybe more important or the things that feel tangible on the to-do list that I can like check off feel easier to do. Other than like sitting there and being like, I'm gonna journal or I'm gonna do this thing for myself. So for me, it's helpful to have like an accountability space like therapy to do that integration work. But I think a lot of us don't give ourselves the time. There's no permission for the time. I think we're busy. There's just so many things going on and it's easy to skip over that and not prioritize that in the hustle bustle. I think that when it comes to getting our needs met, you have a really interesting point of starting with yourself first, actually. Yeah. So where do we begin to have conversations between self but then integrating that into a co-created space of getting your needs met? Firstly, I think the starting place would be to, like something I do with my clients, is we do an exercise called like finding your yes. So I'll have people think of something in their life, person, place, thing, you can even do it now if you're listening, person, place, thing, experience, memory, it could be a meal, it could be sex that you had, it could be something great, but something that you know is like a hell yes for you. And then I kind of do a guided meditation with them where we take in all the five senses of that thing. And figure out what happens in my body when I lean into this yes experience to help us actually feel like, oh, that's what something authentically me feels like. I also think it's important to kind of make these informed consent choices about the needs that are important to us to sort of get clear on our... Life stories and narratives, because sometimes we think something is a need, but really it's like a should or a cultural thing. And so not to judge those, but to get curious of like, how did I form these desires? Do I say that I need this because somebody told me that I need to get married if we've been dating for this long, and now that's a need of mine. And if it doesn't happen, it could be with anybody. We've been together this amount of time. Is that really your need or is that like this societal, cultural story pressure that's on you? So when we talk about connecting it with somebody else, I think that's important too. Also no one person, if you're monogamous, no one person is going to be able to meet all those needs. So also important to figure out which core values do I really want to share with a partner and which things am I willing to outsource. And with the sex thing, a lot of people do not put the sex thing on their core values as a first thing. I see people being like, oh, well, if I love them and I love these other things about them, that the sex will just fall into place. Sometimes that's the case, but not usually. And so a lot of people at the beginning when things are new and exciting, they don't notice that things maybe aren't aligning or that there's just a different flavor in the sexuality and they haven't given themselves permission to be like, oh, the sexual connection is my top value. And then things go down the line and they're like, wait, why isn't the sex working? Oh, because I didn't actually like ask questions about it. Right, or like I unconsciously devalued it. Yeah. So interesting. And I think too, I really want to like drive home what you mentioned about needs and shoulds, and societal expectations on needs and shoulds. You not being like the original creator of them, right? Like who, exactly. And investigating, that has been so freeing for me in my own process around desire, realizing that sometimes the shoulds that I put on myself, I'm like, oh. That is because this grade school teacher told me that one time, right? Or like, that is because I'm realizing that's an inherited, like, mother wound lineage belief, right? And so, it's very interesting to take a close look at that, recognize the ownership. And to me. That's kind of helped me alleviate some of the shoulds that have held me back at different from points in my life and just allowing it to be more easily released. Yeah, I also see people struggling in this sort of dissonance of like logically, they're like, I have this need, but there's also a part of them that feels like that judges the need and feels like maybe the need or the desire is too much or it's going to alienate the other person or they shouldn't have it. And so then there becomes this internal dissonance of like, maybe I'm not clearly asking for it or I don't think I have permission to ask for it, but I want this thing, but you're not giving it to me, but can I have it, and what if I lose you?" And so then there's this internal struggle where sometimes it's hard to express those needs because there's a part of you that's unsure that you have permission to do so. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I wonder how this translates into kind of sexual experiences. And in a more granular way, let's kind of paint a picture. What if there's someone who once had a good connection or had a more seamless connection in their intimate life and is now hitting a sexual lull, and they feel like their needs aren't getting met, what is your approach to handling a situation like that or moving forward to get to maybe that more familiar baseline that you were used to? Yeah, I mean, great news. That's probably indicative that you're a human being. So. Human check. Human check. Look, we change over time. And also just the new energy that we have in a relationship, like you said earlier, can help us sort of overlook or we're just sort of like drawn to this new exciting thing where at the beginning, maybe some difference that we had was like hot and exciting. And now that time has gone on, you're like, wait, you're not just like me. This sucks. That's not hot anymore. So I think it's normal that your desires and needs are going to change over time or that initial new relationship hormone cocktail is going to diminish. You know, having great sexual connection over time takes work. And so to me, the key things here obviously are going to be your communication. Are you able to, are you having open communication about how needs change over time and what the new needs are? You know, do you have a way that you discuss that? Is that normalized in your relationship? Because a lot of times I think sometimes there are certain partners out there who think that if they like find the playbook on your body. That they never have to get an upgraded version. Yeah, like there's no OS update. Right, exactly. But think about it. You're like, is that any good, anything out there, a phone, a book or whatever usually has like a new version? And so same is true for us. Like, is your relationship open to these upgrades? And do you have a way that you check in about that? Is this still feeling good for you? A lot of people don't. They kind of just like stay on the same thing and then it's not going well and they're like, oh no, something's wrong. As opposed to like, yeah, of course things are going to shift and ebb and flow and one day you're going to like this, another day you might not like this. So it's normal. Yeah. Yeah. I really, really love that analogy because I feel like it gives a lot of permission to exploration and the natural, organic, inevitable evolution that happens for everybody, even in their own personal self-journey. And then, of course, it's going to be happening in your relationship dynamic. How do you think we should be checking in? Do you have tools around how we can maybe normalize the way that we. Make sure we're in growth with our partner and not leaving something dormant to then years later, like, this is the worst relationship. Why am I here? Yeah. I mean, look, I'm biased because I'm a therapist, but like, get a therapist early on. Like, let's normalize going to preventative coaching and therapy. We, especially when it comes to sex, but relationships in general, like, how did you learn about sex and relationships growing up? Like, did you have a class? I had a... I had... fear-mongering? Oh wow, that's my favorite class. My favorite class, fear-mongering 101. I had a gym teacher... Yep. Creak in a little, actually not little, massive box television on wheels into the classroom. Oh my god, Oh, that's like movie level. Yeah, movie level. Plug it in the TV, put in like a VHS. No way. Joan Joule, I'm, I'm, yeah. But, and then like watch these weird ass, like, I don't know, birthing videos or like, who knows? Yeah. I blocked out a lot. Did they talk about relationship dynamics either? No. No, we were told, like use a condom and girls are just susceptible to being gazed at and taken advantage of, so watch out. Yeah, I mean, and again, like you said, nothing's touching on like how to communicate or feelings or relational dynamics. So most other things in life, like we acknowledge that you have to learn them and practice them to do them. Driving, recording, like technology for a podcast, learning how to read, like any of these things. We have classes and teaching, but most of us don't have that for life, relationships, for sex. And so we, you know. The most important. Yeah, maybe we have some modeling from our parents who like are humans and probably fucked it up in one way or the other. You know and Maybe didn't show what repair looked like Yeah So I mean for me the first main thing is to like start proactive early on like there's so many great online books and classes Or go to a coach or therapist even before something is wrong, Just being like wow, I really value this connection so much. I want to make sure we have all the tools we need, to have a great long-lasting partnership, would you be willing to go to this with me like before anything goes wrong? Because like, I just wanna be able to sustain this with you because it's so nice. Yeah, yeah, that's such a great frame. And you also mentioned the idea of repair. And I think it's interesting and I wanna hang out here for a second because I feel like a lot of the messaging we get around relationships is like very polarizing. It's either like, stay, or if there's one thing wrong, I'm out. And I- How do you know when? Yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. When to leave, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. This is a tough one. I mean, I think there's no objective answer to this, you know? I think it's different for each person. And I see both things. You know, I actually just interviewed someone on my podcast about this, and we were talking about how on one side of things, we do live in this sort of instant gratification culture where we're like, oh, it's not working, get the newest version. Yeah. Right? Like, oh, this isn't happening? Like, I'll get another one. I'll get the new shiny pretty thing. So, and then, you know, with sort of dating app swiping culture, it's easy to just be like, oh, well, there's something else out there, right? There's something else out there. So our sort of capitalistic life has given us this unfortunate view that there is a better, newer, better, improved, you know, version of things out there. And that there's also, yeah, that we shouldn't have to like work hard, I guess, for it. And so on one end of things, I think you have to ask yourself, what is your like level of willingness and resiliency to work on things in general. Like, in general, how do you sort of approach when something becomes difficult? And kind of getting really clear on that with yourself and your partner is like, what is my level of willingness? How does this match my core values? Like, we're also thinking maybe there's some people out there for whatever religious or spiritual reasons, they're like, I don't believe in divorce or separation. So they might have a higher level of- Tolerance. Yeah, I don't know if tolerance, but or like willingness to have to work on things. So kind of getting clear, like, what is your, you know, willingness to work on things? Are there things that are. Really like core boundaries that you think you will like never change and then additionally I think getting clear with your partner just on, How much work are we willing to put in to this? But like I said at the beginning if you kind of know your core values to me, Main important thing is that you have some matching core values with a partner. That doesn't mean that you're going to agree on everything or want all the same things But there does have to be like some reason for being beyond just we love each other. And so when sometimes when I ask people, well, what's keeping you in this? And they say, well, we love each other. And I'm like, well, that's great. What else? So love is beautiful. And I think a lot of people are like, love prevail. You know, like love can solve everything and maybe to an extent. But beyond that, what is your sort of core aligning purpose for what's keeping you in this? Yeah, what are some like examples like even for people listening to be like, well, yeah, actually what is it beyond love that? I'm in it for yeah, like Potentially maybe for you your core value is like I want to be in a relationship where we're both value a growth mindset Mm-hmm where we both care about like self-improvement and always working on ourselves Yeah, and so if you're with somebody who doesn't prioritize that and you're saying that is your core value, you, wondering why. Is that something you can, you know, you can shift. And this to me fits in with like the other stuff you're talking about of deciding when to stay or when to go is how crucial is this thing that you're saying to you and your values? So just for example, like let's say you're into something sexually and your partner isn't. That's a lot of couples. You're not the same person. There's going to be some things. Exactly things you don't align on. For me, my core value is having someone who's like, has like a non-judgmental willingness to try to find either like a similar language or just at least we can talk about it. For me, I'm also non-monogamous, so that can be helpful too, because it's not all on that one partner, but I at least want to be able to talk to all the partners about it. And so, you know, for me, it's figuring out how key is this thing to me? Is this something that I know that I want to have as a core part of my relationship? And if I don't have it with this person, will I be okay with that? So at some point, if that isn't aligning and you're saying this is something you have to have, that may be an ending. Or if you're non-monogamous, that may be, okay, I'm needing to outsource this. Or even if you are monogamous, is it something you can outsource in another way? I've also found that sometimes people think there's a misalignment in their needs and desires, but if we're able to like dig down to the core essence of it, sometimes we can find a common language. So what I mean by that is like, let's say that one partner really likes to be spanked, and the other partner is like, I'm not into that. And you know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. Both people can take a step back, take a look at what is it about this that I like or don't like, what's my kind of story around it? Maybe you had an upbringing where spanking was a punishment and you don't feel good about it. Or maybe you had an upbringing where it was a punishment and now you've eroticized it. I don't know. So kind of getting clear on it. But then once you kind of name that, digging deeper to see what is it about this in its core, purest form that's important to me, and is there a way we can connect on this human to human? So for example, it's like, oh, well, actually, I I like this because I really like to feel strong sensations because that helps me feel grounded in my body. Oh, the other person can be like, oh, now I understand. Maybe I wasn't into it for this reason, but I can understand that. This is what helps me get into my body. I want to foster that for you. Can we find a common language to do that now that we've gotten to the core elements of it? And now we've rewritten something that feels like we're co-creating something. Yeah, exactly. On new understanding grounds. Right. I really love the framework. I don't know if you've talked about it on the show before, but the erotic blueprints. Yes, I love the erotic blueprint. Yeah, I love it too. And I like to apply it not just to sex. I like to think of it as like who you are in relationship to. And the idea that it's OK if you have a misalignment in needs and desires, but how willing is your partner and how willing are you to work on things, to find this, to be able to speak a language together? And then the second piece is, how willing are you to accept somebody showing up for your needs and desires when it's not their usual mode of operating? And here's where I think we get stuck is people want the other person to want what they want. Yes. That's my problem. Yeah. Yeah. Like I want you to like, I want you to like physical touch as much as I love physical touch. Right. Yeah. Or like, you know, I want you to, it's not enough that you're like folding the socks the way that I asked you to, I want you to want to fold the socks that way." Oh, okay. Like, whatever fucking thing it is, you know? So I think we struggle to receive. I think some part of this is because... If we were leaning into it, then we have to accept the fact that we're receiving just to receive, and it can be hard to do that because then we feel guilty or we're worried it's too much or whatever, or we want to like share this thing with that person. So I think you have to sort of practice this other thing of like, how willing am I to receive the things I want, just because someone cares about my needs? Yes, yes. I love that. Also, I'm laughing because, You mentioned folding socks. I fold towels a really specific way, like bath towels. Which is the which is the way? Okay, so you fold it long and then you fold it in like a tri-fold situation. Yeah, like a hotel fold. Yes, because I used to work in like as a teenager, like some of my first jobs were in hospitality. So they like taught us how to do the folds. Yeah, I worked in hospitality too. And so my partner, when I first met him, would just fold the towel one way and then the other, and they would be these long squares. And I'd be like, so this is unacceptable. And... How did that go? And he was like, what the fuck are you saying? I'm just folding a towel. And I was like, no, no, no, we must fold and tri-fold. And it was so funny, the first couple attempts I was trying to show him, he was so resistant and just like, really, fuck you, I can't believe you're making me do this. But I call these the towel arguments because, yeah, I usually refer to it of like, oh, you left your towel on the floor again. I fucking hate you. But usually it's about something else. I mean, maybe, maybe, maybe sometimes it's just about towels because you're like, towels are very important to me. And other times there's a story behind it. So how willing are we to like get to the core of that meaning to help our partner understand us and to help us find compassion to see them as a whole human too. So like, can I use this towels as an example? Yes, please, please do. So if we had to peel it back, what is it about the tri-fold that's important to you? And what is it about your partner doing it that feels really important to you? Okay, so I love this. Okay, so I love holding my towels this way because it makes my house feel like a premium experience. Like it's the hospitality moment. It's organized, it's in the linen closet in like a beautiful way. And then when I pull a towel out, the entire experience of it is just so refreshing. It feels premium. Yeah. And- What feels good for you about having something be premium in your home? I, ooh, oh my gosh, I love this. I think that it makes me feel just... Like I'm treating myself well and that I am capable of creating really beautiful experiences for myself in small but meaningful ways Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. It's a pleasure practice. It's a pleasure practice Okay, so if you attach all that to it, and then your partner's not folding the towels this way. Yes, Unconsciously you are translating that to I don't care about your pleasure practice this. I don't care about having a beautiful premium space with you. Having a premium space doesn't matter to me. Right. Yeah. Like it's stripping the worth and narrative that I've put behind this. So fascinating. Anyways, so to complete the story too, the other day he's just like folding the towels. By the way, this was something maybe like years ago, but I'm lying on the bed after my shower. I'm having my towel time as many of us are familiar with. I mean, you've got to lie in your bed after you shower. Yes, yeah, I take the towel off and I get under the covers. Oh my God, that's elite. I like a premium experience. Yeah, we're your brothers. Guys, the entire through line of this podcast is premium. But so he just like, we had like a pile of laundry on the bed and he's just folding it and he's doing the towels like he's been doing for a really long time. But it hit me. I was like, oh my God, babe, you fold. I forgot, like, you fold the towels how I taught you, like, you love this now, too." And he's like, yeah, I love this. So it's kind of come full circle, but it's hysterical. But a good reminder to validate each other when you're seeing things done that make you feel good that you asked for. Yeah, totally. So yeah, we've really come through to the, like, is this necessary to the, like, I'm doing it and now I also am doing it and enjoying it. Yeah. Huh. But again, coming full circle, as you said, in terms of when to stay, when to leave, in terms of needs. To summarize, I think take some time to get clear on what your core values are. Are there things that you need to have in a relationship? What has happened to why you're maybe not choosing that? Does your partner know what those are? Are you sharing it with them? How willing are you to do the work? And what amount of work feels like you're, I don't know, like how far you're willing to go, I guess. How willing is your partner to do that work on those things that don't align? Are you ready to receive things that aren't your partner's mode of operating? How much are you willing to outsource? I think these are some key things to question and figure out to help you determine if it's time to go. And then, I mean, maybe there are some objective times about like... Relationships that are harmful and things like that. But that's a whole other conversation on why it's hard to leave and all that. So I just want to assert, yes, put a pin in the sense that I think we're talking about relationships that might be working to an extent in a non-abusive way, but you want something different. This would be a different chat if it was, how do I know when to leave when something's abusive and harmful? Sure. Yes, absolutely. Agreed with that. I also wanted to ask you a bit more about receiving because what are your thoughts around, I think we can use like the erotic blueprint or maybe let's even pare it back to something a little bit more widely understood like love languages. People like to kind of use that as a good example of where their needs are. So in terms of receiving, let's say there are two individuals who have very different love languages, if you will. Where can we begin to learn or begin to understand that we are still receiving love, right? In a form that maybe we're just not associating as deeply with because, I'll use an example, I'll use me. I'm a physical touch girly. I'm a towel girl. I'm a towel girl. I'm a towel girl. I'm a towel girl. Let's say someone is like a words of affirmation, like you're with someone who's just, but you're like, oh, that doesn't really, thanks for gassing me up. But like, I just really want you to hold my hand or whatever it is, right? How can we learn to expand our vocabulary of receiving love if it might not be what we expect or want out of our vocabulary of love? I mean, I find it easier to receive when the person I'm receiving it from is also being willing to speak my language. So it's hard to do if they're like, well, this is the way that I do it, and so you can either receive that or like, I am showing you love. Because to me, that's not like attunement. So even if they're saying, you know, this is a little hard for me, or wanting to name that, or giving them some compassion that it's going to take some time to learn that language, just like if you would learn French or Italian or Spanish or whatever, same with the erotic blueprint kind of thing. Like, you have to, I think the partner, whoever you're with, it could be friend, family member, whatever, also has to have a willingness to speak your language too. So then that makes me more willing to want to speak their language. Their. Personally. So I think. If someone, if I see that they're trying to speak my language, it makes me more willing to be like, oh, I can try to take that in or speak that as well. Yeah, that's actually a great point. Like, it's less about just being like, okay, grinning and bearing like, okay, I guess I'll accept this is what it is. Yeah. Well, and there's also maybe something that just popped in my head is like having like a translation discussion a little bit where maybe you're with someone who's not a big a big physical touch person. And you could say something like, you were kind of gassing me up saying these nice words of affirmation earlier to me. If you could translate that to how you would hold me, how would you be holding me? Huh, yeah. So like finding a way to like see if you can translate it. Like I knew logically you were trying to give me love, but you know what, it just wasn't landing. Can you help me let it land? I have a wild visual in my head. What? It's like a Google Translate, but it's like putting physical things, like we're putting in words. Love, the love translate. Yeah, the love translate. We're putting it into like a little translator and then it's like, brring, bring, and then it's like, this is how it translates in physical. Yeah, yeah. Well, and look, sometimes if it's not someone's normal language, we have to remind them like, hey, remember I speak this? Yes. And I know that can be annoying. Yeah. And I don't know the right answer about like how many times do you have to remind somebody? Because sometimes we do have to specifically ask for what we want, and especially if that other person doesn't speak your language. And this is where I notice, myself included, a lot of people are like, I don't want to have to ask for it because it's not as good this way. But this is where you have to learn to be able to receive it and see if you can find something about receiving it that's great. So if you're noticing that your partner is giving you a language you don't want, ask them very specifically for what it is you do want. That can take some practice, that is vulnerable, that is scary, but then you actually have an opportunity to get what the fuck you're asking for. So for example, what kind of touch would you say you would have preferred or liked in those situations? Well, I think I'll just give a random example. I really like holding hands in public. Yeah, okay. So let's say instead someone's giving these words of affirmation, I might say something like, hey, I really appreciated that thing you just said. I know that that's your love language, but right now, remember, I love physical touch. Can you hold my hand while we're walking here in public? Because it's going to make me feel that thing that you just said, and I'd love for you to hold it this way. Yeah. And then ideally they're like, oh yeah, thanks for telling me, hold it that way. And then you have to take a breath and practice like, can I still receive the niceness of like how this hand feels in my hand? Yeah, maybe spontaneously. Well, maybe that's not saying even though let's say because I asked for it. Yeah. How nice is it that I can verbalize what I want specifically and I'm getting it. And like practicing this new way of being. Yes. But this is a fucking practice. So I say this with like compassionate and love that like it's practice to undo this. Yes. That we sometimes have to very specifically say the thing. Then it's a different story if you say it very kindly and nicely like this and your partner's like, no, then maybe call a therapist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Call me. Yeah, and I really like that you bring this up in being definitive and explicit because because they think maybe people will go as far as saying, well, I like, I'm just gonna stick on physical touch. You know my love language is physical touch, but because that's not maybe necessarily their modality, they don't know where to begin. So remembering that, like you're saying, we have to be the guide in this process as well, and being like, hey, I actually had a, I co-host a series on here called Quickies, and my co-host Amanda Blair had mentioned, she was like, I had to ask my partner to explicitly surprise, me with a random spontaneous act of slow dancing. Like that sounds really romantic to me. I'm not gonna ask you to slow dance right now. I don't, that's not something I need in this very moment, but just so you know, I would really love for you to do this at some point, just whatever. And he did it for her a couple of weeks or months later, whenever it was, and she said it was so sexy and amazing because he was able to digest it, think about it, do it on his own terms, that really worked for him as well. And. She was like, I don't know if I would have gotten that because that was a, again, it was also intertwined a bit with like a small fantasy and we have to express these things and let our partners know, I think. Yeah, I mean, I also want to name the like gender component here. Like I don't like to genderize all things, but I think if you grew up in a femme body or what people would, you know, see as a woman's body and thus were like taught femme things, I think there's also this struggle of like not asking for too much and this sort of old trope of like, the gentleman knows what I need. You know what I mean? The good sir. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, well, he opens the door. And again, this is very like hetero, but I think if you grew up in our culture, these things were shot at you through like rom-coms, through like old Hollywood, like all these things. And so there's a sort of like, oh, This other person is my gatekeeper to what they know what I need. Thank you, sir, for telling me what I need, because otherwise I would have no idea." So a lot of us were taught this and have internalized it in some way, shape, or form. And so when we have another desire that doesn't match that, it's like it glitches in us and we're sort of like, I want this thing, but like, well, I want you to want it because then I have permission to have it. And like, why aren't you doing it? Because you should know what I like. And then we're just like, whatever noise that is. Yeah, I wanna like acknowledge where this comes from too and why it's hard to undo that. Because a lot of us are in that thing where we just like get stuck there. And then we think, oh, because this person isn't a mind reader, they don't love me. Or they don't know how to love me. But just like if it were a different language, if you were saying like, hey, you speak French and I speak Spanish. And instead of being like, you know, talk to me in my language and you've never learned it, you might be like, uh, hola? Like, I don't know. As opposed to, I would like you to say this sentence in this way. Yeah, that's such a great, again, another analogy there of like really translating your needs. And I think truthfully, like you said, it's not a you problem. Like, I feel like I look to society really being like, ugh, this is really where it did us wrong in terms of not feeling like we can have these like approachable conversations or at least feeling like they've modeled only one specific way that relationships and sex should look, quote unquote, should look, and therefore everything else is up in the air. It's wild. Yeah. I've even done it for people who like words of affirmation, too. You can tell the person exactly what to say to you. And again, this takes practice to be able to accept that. But I've literally told my partner before, I've been like, I need words of affirmation right now. I need you to tell me what a good girl I am. I need you to tell me this, this, and this while you're holding my face this way and looking in my eyes. And I need you to say it again. I need you to say it again. I literally like ask for it specifically. And after some time, I've been able to like receive it in a nice way. Yeah, that's amazing actually. And I think too, I've kind of learned to do this even within, I'll use my partnership as an example of like, maybe like there's a third party situation that came up, like a work problem, right? Or something. I'm just there to help console them in some way. And kind of being like, okay, what do you need of me? Do you want me to just affirm whatever you're saying? Do you want my real opinion? Do you want me to not say anything and just hug you and tell you you're doing great? And so- Yeah, give a consent menu of the options. Yeah, like, yes, I love that. Like, truly, here's your menu. Tell me how I can help serve you to make you feel better in whatever capacity you need. Yeah, and look, sometimes people say they don't know, but that's where I think the slowing down comes in of like, okay, well, I'd like to give you permission to take a little more time to actually check in and see what, if that's really true. Yeah, completely. I was recently chatting with a friend and they were in a quarrel with their partner about intimacy and they had outsourced to an opinion from someone. And that someone's opinion was, well, sex should be the foundation of your relationship because you are intimately and romantically involved in one another. So if that's not working out, you're done for. What are your thoughts on that in terms of the importance of sex in a dynamic and really the conditions around whether, I guess this kind of goes back to the should you stay or should you go? I mean, again, I think obviously the person giving the advice, I'm hearing that a core value for them was having sex be a foundation. And so. It is for me, but it certainly doesn't have to be for everybody. There's a lot of people who are in relationship where sex is not the core element. Yeah. And that's totally fine. If that is something you're okay with, your partner's okay with, you two are shared on that value together. I also think, too, if you're in a partnership, different people are going to define... What did the person say for advice? Like that it's like the foundation, it's the key? Yeah, they said sex is the most important pillar and it should be working. And it should be easy and if it isn't... Oh, easy. They said easy. Oh, well, that's wrong. Sorry. I wish you had a buzzer. Sure. Certainly, there are some people, if they went into a relationship, having sex be the key value and looked for that as the main thing where they might feel more naturally compatible in their their styles and their choices, and it might feel a little easier. That being said, having great sex over time takes work. It's not always easeful. And so if you're thinking that it has to be easy, you're probably gonna be disappointed. It's going to take ongoing work and commitment. And as we're talking about, if you've picked somebody and haven't had conversations with them about the kind of sex you're wanting, the kind of relational style you're wanting, the things you're into, and that person is like widely different, it may take a lot more work for that relationship to work. If you're willing to put in that work because all the other stuff is great, awesome. If you've accepted that it's like, you know what? We don't align on this, but this is so important to me, I'm willing to work at this with you forever. Great. But even if it aligns and you've picked somebody who is more your style, another colleague of mine calls it your species. Like Reid Mihalko, he says, date your species. Meaning like if I'm polyamorous, I look for a polyamorous person. If I'm kinky and that's a core value, I look for a kinky person. Some people don't know those things about themselves until later in the relationship. So that can be a different learning. But I think it's important that you have to ask yourself, if you're not picking someone based on those values, it is going to be work. If you are picking someone based on those values, it might be a little less work, but it's still going to be work. So figure out, is that really a value that's important to you? If it is, talk about it right away when you start dating about the values and the kind of sex and connection intimacy and figure out how willing that person is to work at that. But great sex over time is going to take work regardless. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think I actually really like your tip of like when you are starting to get to know someone to actually like have those initial conversations and like pick their brain on like what are your views on whatever it might be that like your is that core value for you. Yeah, which if you know that going in and you're just starting to date. That's epic. Yeah, ask that be like you know what sex is really important to me and I'm committed to like working on it. How... Where do you stand? Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think... On the flip side, you know, if you maybe met someone when you were younger and you didn't have the same expansive vocabulary and know-how around this sort of thing, and you've been exploring it, where do you think, is it too late to begin those conversations? No, it's never too late to begin. Blame this podcast. I always tell people that, like, if you have an article or a podcast where we're bringing up these things that you need in your relationship, and you're like, how do I bring that up? Blame us. Yeah. Be like, oh, you know, Tatiana has that podcast I like, and I was listening to this episode and talked about this. Would you be willing to listen to it with me? Yeah. Or like if there's, you know, look, there's articles about everything. Look up an article and be like, this just happened through my feed. Just can't believe it. Yeah. But if you're really struggling, that's where a therapist or a coach can come in. So you have a, contained supportive space to see if your relationship can grow together. Because yeah, a lot of us are growing together and like I said, it can change over time. So even if you asked all these things at the beginning, that shifts. And so that's why I think it's really important to have like scheduled relationship check-ins to see if things and how things are changing over time. But yeah, certainly things can be added in just like all the other stuff we're saying that has upgrades, right? Cars. The first car is very different than the current car. It's still a car, so you can certainly have upgrades and changes to your relationship. You may grow together, you may grow apart, but how willing are you to work on it? Only you and your person can know that. Yeah, totally. This is amazing. You are like a wealth of knowledge and you are so fun to podcast with. Thank you. My last question for you is, what is currently on your bedside table? I'm laughing because I feel like... This is something I'm working on for myself, is to have the better space, like yours, that is a little more nice and premium. And I work on this with clients because you want your bed space to be a nice place for relaxation and sex and clear and free of things. But right now, I've got crystals and Tapatio. I love that! Tapatio is not for sex. Don't put that in your genitals unless you like them to burn, in which case, good for you. Know the risks. Why is it there? I fucking put tapatio on everything, which I shouldn't be eating in my bed because I've been trying not to do that. But sometimes I eat lunch, you know, between clients when I'm relaxing in my bed. You're in your pleasure practice. I need my tapatio, you know, right there. And then crystals because I love rocks and I've just got fucking rocks everywhere. So there's rocks, rocks and Tapatio. That is epic. Your essentials. Yeah. Your essentials, everybody. Oh, there's some lube there too. Don't confuse the Tapatio and the lube. That's so good. I'm, I'm obsessed with that. I, yes, I've definitely like my inspo for bedrooms and bedside tables. A lot has come from hotels because I love that experience of just wanting to make it feel like I'm on vacation in my house and yes I know see my my brain wants that but my the rest of my brain the ADHD is like it's not happening then good then go to a hotel bitch you're gonna have a hot sauce and dirty clothes over here that's what you want okay also like I can't front because I really am that person who has Six water glasses from the past six nights like at different fill lengths like just like crusting away So, I mean look did you ever see the movie signs? No. Okay. Well, I'm gonna spoil spoiler alert if you haven't seen it. It's an old movie about aliens, which I love Okay, can I spoil it? Yeah, please. Okay. Well, there's a at the end of the movie It turns out aliens invade earth and there's a little girl in the movie and she always leaves her water cups everywhere and the dad's always so fucking annoyed. And at the end of it, they actually realized that the aliens that are invading can't survive when the water is thrown on them. And so it all works out because he hits these baseball bats against the water and the aliens disintegrate or whatever. So I'm going to say that those waters are there for a reason. And if you get rid of them, you won't be prepared for the alien invasion. Don't clean them up ever. That's my therapeutic advice. LMFT stamp of approval. Housekeeping. Thank you so much for joining me today. This was such a treat. Can you. Tell everybody where they can connect with you and find you? And I know you have a podcast yourself. Yes, you'll have to come back on. We'll talk about towels some more. The things you can do with them for sex. Thanks again for having me. This was a blast. I love being able to talk about this stuff, and I also just want to say that if you're listening and you're like, oh, that stuff is really hard, just know that this is my field, and I still have to work on this stuff. It is a work in progress. We're all doing our best. Keep trying. You can find me on Instagram at Therapy with Nicoletta or at Sluts and Scholars, which is also the name of my podcast, sluts and scholars available anywhere you get your podcast or it's sluts and scholars.com is also an easy way to find me. So good. Thank you. I can't wait to have you back. Can't wait to come back. All right. Bye everybody. Bye. Music. I hope you love this episode as much as we did making it. If you have any feedback questions or suggestions for future episodes, or if you just want to chat, don't hesitate to reach out to us at thebedside on Instagram and thebedside.co online. You can also find us at bythebedside on TikTok. To stay updated on our latest episodes, be sure to subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform. And if you found this episode valuable, I would so greatly appreciate if you could leave us a rating, a review, text it to a friend, share it to your Instagram stories. Let's get this message out there loud and clear. Until next time, Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you. Music.