Have you ever wondered what it takes to be a successful therapist working with some of the world's top athletes? Join us, as we chat with a seasoned therapist boasting a 23-year career in sports therapy. She spills the tea on the importance of exclusivity, the trials young therapists encounter, and the crucial role of trust and confidentiality in this niche. Our conversation takes you behind the scenes, highlighting the invaluable lessons she learned on her journey and her experience with a national team cyclist.
This episode gets even more interesting as we explore the frequency and necessity of RMT treatments for athletes and the general populace. We caution against the pitfalls of an unhealthy dependency on RMT, emphasizing the significance of natural healing. Our guest, a proud representative of Team Canada, gives a thrilling account of the honor of representing her nation in major sporting events and the athletes' push for diversity within the medical team.
It's not all seriousness though - we round off this engaging episode with a candid chat with Danielle, an Olympic massage therapist. She passionately discusses the gender imbalance in her field and her fight for increased representation. So grab a cuppa and join us for a rare peek into the world of sports therapy, exclusivity, and high performance - you don't want to miss it!
Want to see more of the AP? Subscribe to the AP YouTube channel.
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Check out Dave's stuff on:
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LinkedIn
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Produced by Rise Virtually
Check out our Website | Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram | Tiktok | Spotify | Apple | Google | Youtube
Have you ever wondered what it takes to be a successful therapist working with some of the world's top athletes? Join us, as we chat with a seasoned therapist boasting a 23-year career in sports therapy. She spills the tea on the importance of exclusivity, the trials young therapists encounter, and the crucial role of trust and confidentiality in this niche. Our conversation takes you behind the scenes, highlighting the invaluable lessons she learned on her journey and her experience with a national team cyclist.
This episode gets even more interesting as we explore the frequency and necessity of RMT treatments for athletes and the general populace. We caution against the pitfalls of an unhealthy dependency on RMT, emphasizing the significance of natural healing. Our guest, a proud representative of Team Canada, gives a thrilling account of the honor of representing her nation in major sporting events and the athletes' push for diversity within the medical team.
It's not all seriousness though - we round off this engaging episode with a candid chat with Danielle, an Olympic massage therapist. She passionately discusses the gender imbalance in her field and her fight for increased representation. So grab a cuppa and join us for a rare peek into the world of sports therapy, exclusivity, and high performance - you don't want to miss it!
Want to see more of the AP? Subscribe to the AP YouTube channel.
---
Check out Dave's stuff on:
Instagram
Twitter
LinkedIn
---
Produced by Rise Virtually
Check out our Website | Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram | Tiktok | Spotify | Apple | Google | Youtube
If athletes don't need to rush in and see us, then we're good. And I'm finding out as a veteran. Now I've got half an hour slots. I used to want to fill that half an hour and even do a couple minutes extra and I realize if I can do my job in 15, 20 minutes and let you go and be like you're good, that's actually me doing a better job.
Speaker 2:You're the most decorated racquetball player in US history, world's strongest man, from childhood passion to professional athlete, eight time Ironman champion. So what was it like making your debut in the NHL? What is your biggest piece of advice for the next generation of athletes, from underdogs to national champions? This is the athletes podcast, where high performance individuals share their triumphs, defeats and life lessons to educate, entertain and inspire the next generation of athletes. Here we go.
Speaker 1:But for 23 years, like I am not out there, I don't never had a website.
Speaker 2:So that's even more of a testament to your work. I hate to break it to you.
Speaker 1:Why no?
Speaker 2:Because it means that people are paying attention to what you do without it even being easily accessible.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's. There's a certain clientele that like their things to be exclusive and because I'm not out there, they like it that they can only find me through somebody else. So they feel like they're getting a gem A lot with the athletes too, like they don't. The ones I've realized that I've been working with for 20 years they don't want somebody that's on social media, that's putting where they are all the time. They like that. They can never find me and I, when I first started, I'd have them sign a disclaimer too that they would not say anybody, I'm their therapist. I don't want to be put anywhere as your therapist. I won't mention that. I'm your therapist. Whatever I hear in your house or see, I'll never talk about, because you see a lot of things, you hear a lot of things, but I want you to also not talk about me. Wow.
Speaker 2:Do you do that with everyone of your clients?
Speaker 1:No, just my athletes at first because I realized as a woman I started at 25 and two months in I was with an MBA athlete and I realized it for me at that time it was going to be career suicide if I was seen with him.
Speaker 1:Cause they'd be like oh, she's young, she's kind of cute, oh, I'm sure she's a good therapist. So I wanted to make my name just on him, referring from the work I did, I didn't. I wouldn't go out in public with him. He's like oh, we're all going here for dinner. I wouldn't be seeing with him till he got traded and then we, we could go to dinner.
Speaker 1:When he came to Toronto Wow, even jokes about it now he can. It's been 23 years, he's like my big brother. So every time I buy a place he wants to come see it and he'll be like can we be seen in public? Now I was like, yeah, it's been 23, 20 years, I think we're good. No, it's going to assume it's because we were sleeping together. What a shame, it's that it well, that you well, that I felt that I had to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean. But I don't want to be out there like that, like I don't want to be people see me or see me with somebody and be like oh, I'll have her in my therapist. If you don't think I'm good and heard about it from somebody else, I don't want you to pacify me or, just because you think I'm cool, because I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, I just think the fact that you like to, you know young people can't be out seeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, he was actually a veteran, so he was 11 years older.
Speaker 2:Okay, that makes a difference.
Speaker 1:So it was a big difference. Yeah, and so I just thought no, and I mean we didn't start off on the best foot, we weren't friends. Like it's amazing we're friends now, but we didn't start off very friendly. He was kind of feisty and rude and I don't take the attitude lightly, so I just pushed back. And then he now says he respected me because of it, cause people just take whatever they get from them and I was like, no, I got other people I can treat. We don't have to do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so how does a 25 year old go from two months on the job to training an NBA athlete?
Speaker 1:and an.
Speaker 2:NBA vet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well it's. You know, when it started off, right place at the right time I went, did a kind of great U of T and one of my U of T for professors was a sports psych and the minute I went into massage therapy she was working with a national team cyclist and the cyclist couldn't afford at the time a real massage therapist. So she said I know somebody that's going to be as good as anybody you've done. I had been in school it was after my first year I'd learned effleurage, petrissage, some compression, but Lorynne came to me. She would ride her bike. She ended up winning a gold medal in 2004, but I was treating her in 2019 when she couldn't afford a therapist and she would come. It would be two hours. I'd be sweating, she'd be sweating a muscle, stripping her legs, but I didn't know what I was doing. So my approach was what's worked with you for you in the past? And she would show me and tell me and I would just do it.
Speaker 1:And then my U of T sports med professor ended up being the raptor sport for sports doctor, and so I had met a couple of one of the NBA athletes a month out of school and he had said this is how it didn't start off. Well, he had said you can come to my condo and I said no, I was at the time working in the Royal Hotel, at the spa, and I said you can come there and if we get along, we can see if this will work. So he called in the day of or the day before and he's like can I get an appointment? I was like no, I'm working, classic guy. And so he's like I said I'm working at the Royal Hotel, you can come. You used to live there. You can come in.
Speaker 1:And so he came in but he left and didn't say word to me 90 minutes. And so I went to the front desk. They're like he left you a tip but he didn't really say anything. But wait, before he left the room he did say to me you know what, if I don't like this massage, I'll never see me again. And I said if I don't ever want to treat you, you'll never see me again. And then he left.
Speaker 1:So didn't hear from him for about a couple weeks. And then he called and he's like can I get a massage tomorrow? I said no, you know I work. You have your schedule from like months ago, pick a day and let me know. So he hung up the phone, didn't even say goodbye. He barely says goodbye. Now, anyway, that's just him. But so he called a couple weeks later and he's very gruff and he's like so can I get a treatment two weeks from Tuesday? I was like, yeah, I think I can work that out.
Speaker 1:So went to his condo and for the, did the intake and he's not really talking to me. He's obviously not happy. So for the both first three treatments we don't talk During it. And so the first, after the first one, I'm like hello, hello, I'm looking for him. I'm like are you there? I can't find him. He's in the sprawling condo but he's obviously ignoring me. So I find where my shoes are, I put it on. I see he's left cash on the credenza, so I take it and I leave. The next two or three treatments are the same thing. He'll call me, go through the case history. We don't really talk, we're obviously not friends. But he pays an American at that point. It's 70 cents to the dollar.
Speaker 1:So I'm like this is just work. Yeah downtown, I'm good, so we don't talk. And then one day he just we started. I was going through the case history and then he was asking about something and his father there was something up and we just started talking. And then we actually became friends from there. But Could start it off not well.
Speaker 2:Talk about zero to a hundred as far as work experience, going from like working with general population to then treating Arguably the highest performing athlete, highest level out there, steve, learning curve.
Speaker 1:You know what? No, because I didn't know any better. So with my first the cyclist I was just tell me what works for you. She did. She was like this is great, you've added some new stuff of your own. So I went for that approach.
Speaker 1:So every time I'd see somebody, athlete or not, my approach is what works for you in the past and we'll start with that and then I'll add my own twist to it. So I didn't even know what I didn't know and I was lucky enough in school I kind of did I've been told by my mentor do a variety of populations. So I did work with HIV patients and that taught me a lot because they were more knowledgeable about their body than me. I could do much more harm with them than anybody. So if I could manage some HIV patients and Be able to speak to them about anything death, about medications Then the athletes were not that hard because I was not going to kill you, potentially not gonna infect you with anything.
Speaker 1:I wasn't potentially, you know, gonna give you something that I have on my skin that you could potentially Could be very harmful. So it wasn't a steep learning, chris, because I didn't know what I didn't know and I just took the whole approach. Even now, when I see a professional athlete, they've obviously at this level, at the Olympic level or high performance. They've had treatment before and gotten there because of that treatment. So my approach is what's worked for you in the past. I'm not trying to recreate the wheel. I'm not you know some brains. I don't have this Technique. That's new. It's. We all do the same thing. It's our approach and so whatever's worked for you, let's start there and then we can enhance it, or we can. I can make it my own, but to me you can't go wrong when you have that approach.
Speaker 2:How often should athletes, jen pop, be getting this kind of treatment? Rmt, like, cuz I, I'll go, and it's like, if you know, if you have benefits, sure, let's do it. But then others is like, hey, I should be going here weekly. What do you suggest?
Speaker 1:Again, it's very individual, like I've had Surgeons that will do it once a week before the day they operate. So it's a different kind of treatment. And then if they're doing physical activity, it's something else. As a therapist, we can always alter the kind of therapy we do. If you're not doing high performance stuff and it's for relaxation, we can do that. And then the next two weeks of the next week now you've been a weekend war and you run a marathon. Well, that's a different treatment, so you can actually treat somebody.
Speaker 1:Often the treatment is just gonna differ in duration or it's gonna differ in intensity. But for athletes, I mean, they have a schedule. The other thing I don't like to do is I don't like to make it so that the athletes, like every Wednesday at six o'clock I'm getting a massage, because the body gets lazy and it'll only heal itself to a certain extent. So I will, even though I see you regularly every once in a while We'll skip a week and then, if it gets too intense, will fall back. Or then we'll go two weeks extra and then fall back, because you need to keep the body being able to heal itself. And that's where I look better as a therapist when the body can heal itself.
Speaker 1:Because you don't know the difference between oh, that extra two weeks is what did it? If I do in a very tense treatment, I know I'm gonna need you to have two, two and a half weeks. I just look better, even though I don't see you as often. So then you think okay, whatever Danielle says, that was actually pretty good. And sometimes I get the timing wrong. Sometimes they need more time or they're like oh, I wish I'd gotten that, it was a little too long when things built up. But it's hit and miss. I don't like to do the like clockwork right.
Speaker 2:How, uh, that's got to be difficult, though, with an athlete who's you know they're so accustomed to having that scheduled to your point. You know what your schedule is gonna be months out when you're talking to your guy like that's, uh, like I think the fact that you, you've got that confidence, you got that swag here, like, hey, this is what I'm gonna tell you to do, you can listen or you don't have to there have been times where I've had to Tell an athlete like you don't need to see me today and that is the best thing ever If you're at your best and you can go to practice and you don't need to see a therapist after you're good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not there to just kill time, so I didn't start off this way, but I was the therapist that would do anything like if you just need to relax, if she needs your hands done, even though you don't run with them. Whatever it was, I was gonna do it because I wanted you to feel good all the time. But the whole healing of the body and even mentally, you can't be dependent and therapists Want athletes to be dependent on them and that's where they go wrong. I want you to be like ooh, if I had Danielle. But I had traveled with an athlete to her diamond league. I was her therapist.
Speaker 1:Now I realized why they take kairos. But I went to certain time leagues with her and I realized I came back and said to her and her coach Listen, I see why they use a kairos, because she gets, we fly somewhere. She gets up, she runs, she does her recovery and then we have to fly somewhere else. Massage takes a lot longer to set in. By that time we're on a plane again. So, as much as it be great I could have on my resume, I traveled with this girl to diamond leagues for years. It's not in her best interest.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:So you have to know when you don't want the athlete to be dependent on you, because they will respect you regardless. I didn't travel with her Further as a one-on-one, but she was still. She'll go to a diamond league and she will message me and be like okay, one time she had me on video. This is what the therapist doing. Is this okay? I was like go get your treatment, your girl. You let them know what works and what doesn't. You've had enough, right? I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't think creating a dependency helps them as athletes it's such an interesting dynamic as a therapist, because that's your employment. So you're like hey, I don't need more work. You're good, right, like okay, not normally in the capital society that we live in. You're like hey, I want more money, more work. I mean, it need to see my clients more frequently, but in your case then that's not showcasing the work that you're doing and how beneficial exactly so with the general public.
Speaker 1:You want them to be Semi-regular, right? Because, again, when I'm not traveling with the athletes, which doesn't pay a whole lot, that's how I make my bread and butter. But with the athletes it's a totally different game. Like, we know as a medical staff that we're doing a good job when we don't have people Just dying or needing treatments and we're having to, like, move people around and that kind of thing. You actually we look at ourselves. We're like okay, things are good. If athletes don't need to rush in and see us, then we're good.
Speaker 1:And I'm finding out as a veteran now I've got half an hour slots.
Speaker 1:I used to want to fill that, fill that half an hour and even do a couple minutes extra and I realize if I can do my job in 15, 20 minutes and let you go and be like you're good, that's actually me doing a better job called efficiency, yeah, and it mentally it lets them know that they don't need that much work.
Speaker 1:So before, like a pre-event, if the athlete comes to me and says I have 15 minutes, my hamstring won't loosen up. I'm gonna try and get them done in 12 to 13 because I want them to then get off the table. I'll be like listen, you're good, I don't want to be a minute or two late, whereas in my, in your private practice, you tend to want to give them extra time. Well, that sets their psyche off. Well, were they not ready? Then their teammates are getting ready to go into the call room or getting ready to go into the court, and they're a couple minutes late all of a sudden. They're not a hundred percent, so I will purposely schedule everything so they have a couple minutes to like get ready, get relaxed and go off with the rest of the team.
Speaker 2:So much detail. Scott Darnall, who you're yes with, who introduced us, suggested we get you on. One of the things he talked about is when he's treating clients. They can either be energizing or draining, and you can sit there for that 12, 15 minutes and have a very good conversation, get a ton of work done, leave uplifted, or you can leave drained because the person you're working on can suck that energy out of you. Is that something you can relate to?
Speaker 1:No, and I, Because you're an energy ball, I don't know. Well, the other thing I've learned is that I've I'm okay with silence now, so I will take what the athlete gives me and I don't ever feel drained after, because, even if they're not giving energy back I don't know if it's that I don't let them suck it out of me, but I'm like, that's where you are, I'm good, like. I actually had to tell an athlete it was his first major games, 2017 at Worlds and you know, as therapists, we talk to all the athletes. They get on the table, we chat a bit.
Speaker 1:Sometimes people are silent, that's fine, but he wouldn't stop talking, but yet he wouldn't relax. So I actually had to say to him and I'd never done this before and I waited a couple of days because I was like this is going to suck, but he doesn't relax. It's not benefiting him. So I had to say to him you can't speak when you're on the table. He's like but, but everybody else does. I said I know, but they've learned to relax. So he was not happy, but he did it and at the end he actually ended up coming ninth, I think, at his first major games, which was amazing. And then he came to get a treatment when he was done. He's like can I talk now? He's like yes, you can.
Speaker 2:Did he learn how to relax?
Speaker 1:Yeah, now he can do both Now he's, he's a veteran now. But so I don't it doesn't drain me, because I just think, if that's where you're at, then we're good.
Speaker 2:Are there a? Are there a favorite or a specific type of athlete that you like working with, in particular?
Speaker 1:No, like in terms of like a sport, or in terms of male versus female.
Speaker 2:No, all of the above.
Speaker 1:No, because I think I like working with personalities. But I don't have a sport per se, because every sport, I mean there's track, there's different events in football, there's different positions in baseball, different positions, so I don't, I don't know, there's not one that I'd say I like more cycling, it's just no, I kind of just like the human body and so whatever we can do with it, Always been interested, from as a kid growing up, with sports where you were playing.
Speaker 1:No, I played competitive volleyball and softball but I got into massage. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew what I didn't want to do.
Speaker 2:So which was?
Speaker 1:which was I when I was in the university. I worked for the government, for the cabinet office, for Bob Ray, for when you're in, mike Harris, for three. So I had to dress up to go to work nine to five. So I had three non-negotiables and I was, and I was doing kin at U of T. So I said, even if I don't love what I'm doing, if I'm not doing these three things, life won't suck. And they were. It's going to sound horrible, but they were.
Speaker 1:I don't want to dress up to go to work. I don't want to have to comb my hair, don't want to work nine to five because I hated going on the subway with everybody else and I never want to fill out a vacation request form. Because I wanted caribana off every weekend and I was new and I had to wait for all these other people to decide. They didn't want the first week in an August off and I thought this can't be my life. I have to stay somewhere long enough that I could graduate to get. So, whatever it was, I had to be self-employed. So when I was looking at therapies, physio was more in an office. You kind of have to wear an outfit Cairo was the same thing and massage. You could just go anywhere, do anything with anybody, and so I just started it out of fluke and loved it, but it just had none of none of my non-negotiables and I thought it's not going to suck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could be worse. You're going to have to go into an office.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're going to have to work nine to five or work and fill out a vacation request form.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I was on the TTC to go train last week. It's, you feel like a sardine in there?
Speaker 1:Well, it was just that we're all in there together, we all leave at the same time. I just like doing my own thing, and so I thought we'll try it. I can always do something else.
Speaker 2:I can say it because I'm kind of still in it, but it's like it's the rat race. You know. You're just like constantly on the hamster wheel keep running, rinse and repeat. You show up at nine again the next morning. You do it all over again. How amazing has it been to be able to rid yourself of that, like being able to dictate your schedule, travel to diamond league events. I know that's maybe not what you want to highlight all the time, but like it's giving you that flexibility right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I wouldn't be able to work with the team as much as I have if I didn't have that flexibility. Because I mean, I was in Australia in 2018 for five weeks for Commonwealth Games and then they asked me to go with the relay teams and so I was there for a week or two extra. I mean you wouldn't be able to take a month off to go to an Olympics plus training camp and then do four or five camps in between, like there was a year before. Was it real that I think I was out of town for almost five and a half months with the team, like at different camps, different events, and leading up the year before the Olympics is always the craziest Everybody's trying to catch times so I just wouldn't be able to do that. They wouldn't be able to do this job period.
Speaker 2:It's hey, that's the world we live in nowadays. Right, you get to choose right.
Speaker 1:I mean I could do less. When they offer me events, Easy, I could be like no, I can't, and they just move on to the next person. But I do have that flexibility. So when I'm here, I'm grinding, I work seven days a week, but when I'm gone, I'm gone.
Speaker 2:You know what we'd also love to hear from you guys, specifically the males watching this athlete's podcast episode what are you guys doing for your face? You guys are probably brushing your teeth every day, but are you washing your face? Are you applying the good every night to make sure that you're hydrated, moisturized, making sure that your skin looks young, youthful, glowing? I personally use Caldera Lab. I start off my day by washing my face with the clean slate. You can tell it's still wet. That's because I used it this morning. Then I follow it up, I throw on the nice little icon here in the middle underneath the eyes, keeps those black, dark spots away, and then, to finish it off, we use the beard product to make sure that the beard's looking nice and full.
Speaker 2:Check out CalderaLabcom. Use the code AP20 for 20% off yours. It's the best deal that they offer anywhere out there, and I can't recommend the products enough. I use CalderaLab every single day. As you can tell, my skin's looking all right and I'm very happy with it, to say the least. I want to know, though, if you're using it. Let us know down below. Guys promise you're going to love it. How does it feel to be able to say you're working for Team Canada. You're representing your nation.
Speaker 1:You know what it feels. Great to say it, but I have to say the best feeling is when you have the uniform on and for some crazy reason for me it's walking through the airport with your Canada gear.
Speaker 1:It's because it's so international, but yet it's on my back, like where I'm from. It's not so much saying it, but it's just, I will say, having the gear on, like even in an Olympic village where it's full countries all over the world and I have Canada on my back and it's my favorite color, red. That helps, but yeah, that is actually probably the best feeling. I don't tell people that much, like I don't put on social media because I I don't know, I feel like I don't say I didn't earn. It was in the right place the right time and I took advantage of what was given to me. But it's not like I'm doing something that so many other therapists can't do. I think if you gave 90% of therapist the opportunity I was given, they probably roll with it to. So I don't think I stand out in that way. But I do love having the Canada gear at the airport. I don't know if there's something about that.
Speaker 2:I feel like that you're being a little humble. I'm gonna go out and a limb and say that, but I think I think part of here's why I'm comfortable saying that, because you've been doing it for two plus decades. Yeah, there's clearly people appreciating your efforts and what you're doing and I think more so you're able to do it in a way that is energizing. You've got this kind of Excitement around. Yeah, people at the conference couldn't stop talking about you. This it's like infectious right and I think people understand and appreciate passion and excitement and they can tell when someone's Genuinely interested about a subject or whatever the case may be, and in your case it's R&T and it's helping humans, athletes. You know we're all athletes, humans, high performers. At the end of the day. That's what we're trying to do with the athletes podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's why.
Speaker 2:That's that's what I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. I just yeah. Like I said, I think I love what I do, and so people say how much longer you gonna be with the team and the minute I wake up and I'm not looking forward to going to the hub every Wednesday or I get asked to go on it to a camp and I'm kind of like I don't want to then I just make that call and say, guys, I'm done, so I'm not gonna do it, just because and I think you know should be adding new blood in all the time that have that energy. So once I wake up and I'm like, if you about it, I'll just move on to something else. I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say you know what that would be no, but I didn't know.
Speaker 1:I was gonna do track, like. I got a phone call from someone I didn't know and so I thought it was a track club With a bunch of kids running around trying to run, jump, throw, and it wasn't. It ended up being, you know, six months later I'm at a A camp pre Olympic camp. But yeah, I just think you know what. There's so much out there. I don't know what I'm gonna do next. I didn't know I was gonna do team Canada, so who knows what else is out there that don't even know exists? The door hasn't opened yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, have you noticed any differences or commonalities between, like you know, your NFL, your NBA athletes you're working with previously and now track and field athletes? Are there, or differences for that matter?
Speaker 1:Some of the things you see in common, I think with every sport I've worked with there all the there's always athletes that are very diligent, know what's going on with their body and are almost over analytical about everything they eat yes, type A. And then there's those ones that just rely on people just to do everything for them and will tell them what medications to take, like I had. An athlete had a pill box, didn't know what he was taking and he was just told take this, take this, take this. And we just take them. And I said I need to know what you're taking. He's like I don't know Whoa, but to him it was just that was doing your job he would.
Speaker 1:I have a job to do. I get paid to do a job, these people get paid to help me, that's all. I don't want to bother myself with the things in between. And then you get those that you know get told to do an exercise and they want papers on why this exercise is going to work. So I've seen extremes in in all sports. Anything with a team that there's money in it, and I would say there's not much money in track but it is a team.
Speaker 1:I don't want to. You know, some people are doing well. 99% of athletes will not make a dime, and so I think, as as medical, just staff working with them, it's our job to also bring in energy, bring an appreciation for what they do, because they really don't get much like we get a paycheck, we get as an RMT. Every time I leave someone's house, they're so happy to see me, they're happy when I leave. Athletes don't get that Track. Athletes don't get it if they don't finish in the top or hit their goal or hit their time. Guess what? They come off the track and we've moved on to the next person. There's nobody there to help them and be like that sucks. Are you okay? Do you want? I mean, we do, but it in globally, there's none of that.
Speaker 2:We we try and bring that up on the show on a weekly basis and it's a like it's not all sunshine and rainbows and pro sport, it's not you know to your point, 96% of people in track, that's just my own stat.
Speaker 1:I made up.
Speaker 2:I could probably quote you on it, and it would be pretty damn close. That's the story.
Speaker 1:It's bad, like a lot of them will just go and the money they make doesn't even pay for their airline ticket to get there. But they need to go to get these times to get a little sponsorship. That's probably gonna be close.
Speaker 2:Right or heaven and heaven forbid. You have to pay for additional training or supplementation or food, right, like all these things add up, even maybe have some can play fun. Yeah, it's something I'm trying to figure out how to how we can improve it's okay, well, I love to help you improve it's having conversations like this, honestly though, right yeah haven't? You know?
Speaker 1:we've had Aaron Brown on diamond, oh, and he's very big on and Aaron's very smart and has done one, has figured out how to make that work for him, but he is a big advocate for track sucking for most athletes. And it's not just track right, yeah, you know we're talking with Sarah Mitt from oh yeah, she's out of the east hub and so we've got.
Speaker 2:You know, we see these athletes on a weekly basis and the lack of attention that they're getting especially throwers, like we've had Cameron.
Speaker 1:Well, I know they're from BC, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I was trying to get it where BC. You know, I was trying to make it up and maybe we can make that connection out.
Speaker 1:And Cameron's a sweetheart yeah, yeah, she's great, she's energy. Oh my gosh, on this podcast you'd be like yeah, yeah actually be great but and Sarah, you know, and even Jillian, we are came fifth that world in 2022 in Eugene and I mean sponsorship for the women is Bismol throwers especially well, that's what we were talking about early.
Speaker 2:Like I said, cook Stark management, ldc talent.
Speaker 1:We're trying to provide females the same opportunities that us guys, when you make what you be able to equal that it's crazy, right and, like I was just think it was the last episode with Emma Malte.
Speaker 2:We were talking about how 2018 was. 4% of media coverage was for females, up to 15%. Now again far 4 or 5 years 10% growth.
Speaker 1:It's good, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be, and how much is that media based on their actual event or or what they look like?
Speaker 2:You said it, not me. It's true, right, it sucks.
Speaker 1:And it sucks because there's going to be some that get a lot of attention based on what they look like and you know what you got to use what you got. I'm not. I actually think you got to use what you got to use. But then there's those that are like winning medals and doing things that you know are, in their sport, legit and actually winning, and I mean it happens in every sport. I mean I think that's the kind of Kronokovan. Tennis didn't win anything. It ended up being a Ohio State, so it unfortunately it's the norm, but I applaud you for actually recognizing as a, as a male.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to do something about it. Just the acknowledgement is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's um, it's. We're pushing a rock uphill for sure.
Speaker 1:And it's not something that we're doing clearly for the money, because it's no, because there's none in there, but I think without a man pushing it it doesn't go anywhere.
Speaker 2:That's why that's what attracted to it Lander Cook, who's my co-founder for CSM. He did it with LDC talent three, two and a half years ago, three years ago and so we have 20 plus female hockey players under our portfolio and Layla Edwards, who's actually the first female black hockey player to represent the team USA senior national hockey. So again, shout out to her, shout out to Gatorade for the stuff that they sent her, all the other brands, but no, no, no free ads. But all that to be said, it is it's. It's really tough and even when you have someone who has a platform like this that can access a ton of brands, ton of athletes, it's still pushing a rock up a steep hill and I appreciate your energy and your support.
Speaker 1:Before I put it that way, yeah, no, it's uh, and I see it and you, just, you feel horrible. And there's even some men right, just depends on the sport, but it is for women, I think. Just what they're doing. They're doing exactly what the men are doing, right, the hockey track, they're doing the same events, but yet it's just not there. So hopefully, like I said, it needs to be a man spearing it, and so kudos.
Speaker 2:It's coming. It's coming and there's like even the data behind it, like the engagement around female athletes and their social media and the attraction and the attention that gets compared to males is 2x minimum, right yeah.
Speaker 1:Just that on its own.
Speaker 2:It's just awareness People need to be educated about it. They need to figure out and they need to learn. So if I spend $500 with Dave, it's going to get me X. If I spend 500 with Danielle, it's going to be X plus Y plus Z and all your extra energy Right. And they're like what a bargain that was.
Speaker 1:But, like I mean, sadly, because you guys are at the forefront, you'll probably never get the credit, but it's you guys doing the behind the scenes work. And then somebody will come along and tip it over the scales, and you know what I mean. They'll take all the but really, without you guys grinding it out when no one's watching, that's what really gets to the top of the hill. And then, like I said, someone's going to come and push the rock over and it'll be like hey, congratulations, but it's you guys in the back that really get this thing moving.
Speaker 2:Try, and it's been four years that we've been doing this pod. This will be like 206, this episode 206.
Speaker 1:I know, I know we tried to get you on for like 190s before, while we were here a couple of months ago but didn't make it happen. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2:I'm just glad we got to chat with you today. Right, it was difficult. You've got a very busy schedule, seven days a week. Like you just said, you're working.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's not talk about seven days a week. You too, listen. I know the behind the scenes with you too.
Speaker 2:We do have a lot going on, but I mean, I feel like everyone that's trying to achieve success and trying to do lots of incredible things is always going to pursue lots. Have you always had that drive, since a young age, to do something?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always wanted to just do what I wanted to do. My mother always said just find out what you love. It doesn't have to be what you get. Find out what you love and then you'll work hard at it. You'll be the best at it because you want to work at it. Figure out what you want to do and just do that. Start there and then everything else will fall into place. She made me actually go to U of T. I want to become a cop. She made me get a degree and then said you can do whatever you want. After that I went to massage therapy. After she's like child, you're going to work in a spa your whole life. I was like I don't know. But this is what you said. I could do what I want to do. Leave me alone, give me five years and we'll talk. She was happy to see that I wasn't working in a spa my whole life.
Speaker 1:She's like you got your degree. I said you made me get my degree, now it's my turn.
Speaker 2:Is it a relatively balanced industry, male to female, dominated RMTs Are you?
Speaker 1:No, it's very female dominated. That's very female dominating. But I find in the sports realm to be honest, if you'd asked me five years ago I would have said, oh no, most sport there massage therapists are males. No, when I'm now, when I go to games, I look around and I do see a lot of female massage therapists. The other thing is when I in 2016, first Olympics I went to, we went Canada athletics AC was taking an all male medical.
Speaker 1:I was supposed to work with the parasite and the massage therapist was had something come up and asked if I would switch with him. So he did pair. I did able bodied. I was the only female out of two massage therapists, two Kairos, two physios. They would have had an all male therapy team in 2016. So the athletes would say to me always want me at these games because they'd be like Danielle, we want a female, Like they'd have issues where I've gotten calls at four o'clock in the morning, menstrual cramps. They're on the floor at world relays and none of the male medicals answered that call. That came through and I get it, but had there not been a female on staff, they probably wouldn't have said anything. So I'm happy to say that in Tokyo, my second Olympics, we had three females, two physios, one was a personal, but she was just as involved myself, and then three were males.
Speaker 2:Good for you.
Speaker 1:And I would have been the only minority, also in Rio and I wasn't in Tokyo. So I said to the athletes you have to be an advocate. If you want females, you have to advocate, because they'll give you whatever they want. To give you Nothing, then fool on you. So, and then they start to speak up we'd like to have the female. So now, actually, the lead is very conscientious about having a certain amount of females as males.
Speaker 2:As they should be.
Speaker 1:So that was four years. That's not bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it was, and I didn't feel spited when I think about in 2016, I was going to be. It wasn't anything done on purpose, it was just the way things were done and nobody spoke up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'd think there would be a little bit more of like a hey, this looks weird hey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because more than half of our track team is minority and women and actually I looked it up, there was actually more females on the team than males, but nobody said anything. And I said to the athletes if you don't say anything and this is who is servicing you then you're telling them you're okay with this, and so why would they change it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just like from a, you know, standardization point of view, you think like yeah.
Speaker 1:So now we look at it and it's kind of like it didn't feel that bad though when I I didn't realize it till after, until some of the athletes started to talk to me about it. I honestly went there and I didn't realize I was the only female, because I just tend to hang around a lot of males anyway and it's just, we each do our own thing, so it's not a big deal. But I see that one single female therapist might have a hard time if the males go do their own thing. And you know you want somebody to hang with. I'm good to chill by myself. I'm good to chill with the guys and be like do you see some of them Like?
Speaker 1:you guys, go do your thing. I want time alone, but it would be hard for a certain female, because then you feel like you're on your own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I worked as a doping control shop for like during my time in school, so I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the reaction.
Speaker 1:You've done everything you need for it, yeah.
Speaker 2:I know I don't reference it too much, but people who have watched from the beginning know. But you need one male and one female for that reason.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And it's like to me, why wouldn't your medical staff have the same requirements? That just seems logical, right, anyway, good to see you for making change happen.
Speaker 1:Well, no, the athletes made change. Like I said, I didn't notice it a big thing at first, and then, as things started, I was like, well, you guys say something, I'm not going to say anything. Yeah, so big changes have been made. So, now there's actually a conscious effort to make sure that there are X amount of females on the medical staff.
Speaker 2:Was there anything else that stood out from those Olympics 2016 and 2020 that you know stuck it like a sore thumb In terms of food accommodations? I know you've referenced the village all the time.
Speaker 1:I love the food in Tokyo was phenomenal because there's a lot of Japanese. They had like even authentic curries from Trinidad, like authentic. And well, the food's open 24 hours a day you can gain a couple of LBs.
Speaker 1:I've heard you sure could. I think what stands out is just you hear about these athletes and you see the things that they perform and the crazy things they do, but then to see them in person and realize I'm probably bigger than them they seem so larger than life and they're doing such big things and jumping eight meters and I'm like how am I doing nothing? I am a waste of space right now, like they are doing phenomenal things. And when you see their focus, like I, my biggest thing is when an athlete is on the table pre-massage and they leave the table and they're just focused. Or you see them walking by your tent like from other countries, and you could just tell when they're on a mission with their coach and they're just going to get shit done. That's actually incredible.
Speaker 1:And then you'll see them in the elevator and you're like laughing and joking and people have food in their mouth or they've got. You know they're dressed a certain way but yet when they get onto the track or they get, you just see a total different. Even my athletes that like the NBA athlete you know, once we became friends, the joking and laughing, but then when you saw them when they were warming up, they'd be a little joking, laughing, but you could tell when they turn it on and they get into like game mode. So that's kind of cool to see, as a lay person, just how they go through that in their head and what takes them there.
Speaker 2:Hey, you ought to be able to get into that zone, right.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:And it's a skill to be able to do that. How difficult is it for you to be able to identify, like, what makes that person tick and like, I guess maybe a better way to ask it is how much of your job is EQ versus IQ?
Speaker 1:I would say, without the EQ, it doesn't matter much what you, it does matter, but especially pre, and you're taking care of their psyche as well. Right, you're the last person, but I think, rather than I think. When I say that, people get the impression that I have the right things to say and I'm like, okay, don't forget to do this. The best thing is, say nothing, stay in your lane. I am not sports site, so I'm there to make sure your breathing comes down. You're talking a lot.
Speaker 1:I will slow down what you're saying. Like I will answer slower, I'll start to give shorter answers because I want you to stop asking that many questions. So they'll come in and have like 10 hundred things and their eyes are darting from side to side. Sometimes I've turned my table around. So usually in the tent I will do it so that when they're on the table they can face outside, sometimes like to see what's going on the track and depending, I'll turn the table around. So now you're looking at the back of the tent.
Speaker 1:So you know, a lot of times my thing was when athletes getting ready to go, I just let them know. I said you're good, give them a dap and done. I'm not like, don't forget knees up, that's not my lane. So I think the EQ is just to know where they are. Like I've had twice with the same athlete.
Speaker 1:They shit the bed, so to speak, just didn't have a good games and they've been like had a decade of fabulous games and the first time it happened you're kind of like at a loss for words. Everybody's coming in consoling and you kind of do that too and you put your hand in the shoulder, but then you realize that doesn't help them. Now they have to pretend they're good for you. So when it happened again at a world champs, they came into the tent and I knew just to say nothing. They're on the phone. You could see the tears running and you know what I was like. No, nothing. They don't need to hear anything from me because they're going to try and make me feel like it's okay because they've disappointed us. So I realize that sometimes saying nothing, and then the next day or later on that day they'll come up to you and you guys can have a chat. But sometimes it's really just say nothing.
Speaker 2:So interesting. You're just like you know elimination. That's my way of doing it, I'm sure other people have.
Speaker 1:I don't have anything good to say to somebody. I was not a high performance athlete, so I don't know what you want to hear before you get out there. So my thing is I'll say nothing. So I think maybe if I was an athlete, I could have been like okay, you know, this is what I like to hear, but at the same time, how do you know that's what they want to hear?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, I think I shouldn't be. Whatever I say should not be the last thing that sticks in your head before you perform. It should be something your coach said, or something your sports site said, or something mantra you've been going through. Shouldn't be anything I say.
Speaker 2:I mean that's good for you to recognize. And I think it's important for you know RMT's other individuals who are maybe impacting or have a factor in athlete success to understand. Maybe staying in your lane is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than trying to get that extra word in right yeah.
Speaker 1:And be the one that helps them. But I think that's, I think why I've been amazed on the mainstay on the teams is because I just I do what I do. I do soft tissue. I'm not going to try and give you exercise, even though with my general public I'll give them exercises. We'll go through. That's for strength and conditioning, that's for the physio. I'm going to do soft tissue and when that's done then I'll call the physio over, I'll tell you to go see the Cairo, but I am just soft tissue and that's and that's it.
Speaker 2:So sticking with soft tissue, then what should people be doing to ensure they are protecting their body, keeping it in the best shape as they age? Maybe if oh? For the likes of the general Gen pop, yeah, or high performers, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are there anything, any specific things we should be doing for?
Speaker 1:Honestly, it's basic Keep moving.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you have something that you love to do a sport or something but people then decide, oh, I got to go to the gym and if I'm not going to the gym I may as well do nothing. But no, just keep moving. Whether it be walking, hiking, race walking, like, just find something that you like to do. The body just needs movement right. The body doesn't necessarily need you to be playing competitive volleyball once a week, or it doesn't need to be you to be doing what you're doing with your twenties.
Speaker 1:I think, if you're happy where you are in life, keep moving, eat decently. I mean some of our athletes people think they eat just greens or they eat just they need a certain amount of calories. They eat the way a lot of us eat, except they're gifted with some very good genes and some they can be very diligent when they need to be. But they're human. So I think dealing with athletes, dealing with HIV, dealing with seniors it's the body just likes movement. It doesn't even need to be excessive because somehow these athletes they're putting their bodies through something I don't think normal people should be doing. We're not gifted genetically. Just keep moving, be happy, eat decently.
Speaker 2:So funny. Evan Dunphy, I don't know if you're feeling it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh, evan, I'm so thankful.
Speaker 2:Craft dinner action. We've had them on, okay.
Speaker 1:Cause he would be great too.
Speaker 2:Well, the eating thing was brought out cause he had a partnership with craft dinner. So that was, like you know, not maybe the most ideal free, but this is what?
Speaker 1:back to what you're saying, A lot of these athletes will take what they can get.
Speaker 2:Yep, hey, I was just more saying is maybe not the best pre-fuel partnership. They might be paying well. Kd craft I feel like they got some good budgets. I don't know whether I promote them on the athletes podcast, but hey, you know we can make it happen. Michelle, this has been a pleasure. I can't thank you enough. I want to give you space in case there's any items that you want to share, things that you've never shared on a podcast, that you maybe want to enlighten our audience with, or, if you have. If you're not familiar the way we wrap up every episode on the athletes podcast, we asked our guests what their biggest piece of advice would be for the next generation of athletes and now you did just say to tell everyone to keep moving.
Speaker 1:So the next generation of athletes, correct?
Speaker 2:We're focusing on athletics and those young athletes, those human, those high performers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would say, if you get an opportunity to start working with healthcare professionals, doesn't have to be every month, every week, every, but just because they can enhance what you're doing with their body, and so you can, I'll say, prevent loosely a lot of injuries that we see that chronically, it's that people have it taking care or haven't found it professional that they can trust, and so by the time we see, though, there's been things that could have been done previously.
Speaker 1:So, I think, for coaches, to introduce your athletes to a therapist, and it doesn't happen, you know well, maybe you bring them in once every couple of months and they just get.
Speaker 1:But just so that the athletes get to, I kind of think it's great to different kind of touch in a safe environment, so that by the time they get the high performance it's not totally something new, and I think just exploring sort of whatever is available. I think, too, for athletes to stay healthy, there's a lot of preventative things that you could do before the injury happens, and a lot of times just for an example, you know throwers. You might think, okay, they do a lot of work on their upper body, but really it's their base, like it's their legs, it's their feet. So as an athlete you really have to be holistic about regardless of the sport, regardless of if you think it was like delimitant or upper body dominant it really your base is big. So I would say that athletes start building that up from a young age. Do lots of sports to get balance, to get dexterity, to get symmetry, before you specialize, because we see some that specialize and now they're brave at that, but if something breaks down, there's no support on the other side.
Speaker 2:So that team? Thank you so much for saying that. It's music to my ears because I try and tell everyone that they need to feed, throwing their kids in a ton of sports Gymnastics, swim and you name it Like you were a preacher. That right it's. This is your byproduct of being able to go and do everything with your body in a ton of different modalities. It's a good myself. Daniel, thank you so much. I can't wait to follow along. Have you on again. Maybe we can get you to name drop some of those people if they haven't.
Speaker 2:I don't know about everything If you haven't signed NDA's with all of them, but we'll see if we make cognito for now. But maybe we'll be able to peel it out of the people that we have on the podcast with work of the specific. You've got it in God's of my own. It's caught up. No, I really appreciate it. Where can we both find you? Are you on social media anywhere for people to?
Speaker 1:I do have an Instagram account, but it's private and it's like Facebook, and so I mean, if you have a question, you can message me to it and I'll respond, but I don't. I'm not just out there like that.
Speaker 2:So there you go. She's not out there. You're not going to find her. Maybe only I like you if she replies to your Instagram.
Speaker 1:No, I don't reply.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're welcome. Thank you, guys, for having me.