Evan Birch - 548KM for Mental Health LALV24 - Episode #224

Evan Birch is an ultra-runner whose story of mental and physical endurance will captivate and inspire you. From competitive soccer to trailblazing through the world of ultra marathons, Evan's dedication to conquering the unthinkable—a near-300-mile run at the Speed Project—reveals the transformative power of pushing past your known boundaries.

Embarking on an epic run from the bustling streets of Los Angeles to the neon oasis of Las Vegas isn't just about the physical strain; it's a mental odyssey that tests the limits of human fortitude. In our dialogue, we unravel the intricacies of maintaining a mobile aid station, the camaraderie that fuels such an endeavour, and the mental gymnastics faced when traversing the stark contrasts of urban and desert landscapes. This episode also ventures into Dave's personal mission to bolster mental health support for first responders through XpertVR, revealing the compelling intersection between high-performance sports and the life-saving work of emergency service professionals.

This conversation isn't just about running; it's a testament to the resilience and spirit that defines us all when faced with life's challenges. The episode also provides an intimate look at overcoming injuries with innovative therapies, and the mental strategies employed to stay the course. Finally, we emphasize the importance of connection and community in overcoming adversity, a reminder that none of us should face our toughest races alone.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

From LA to Vegas non-stop, all gas, no brakes. Proud to be able to call my friend. This is the athletes podcast, where we chat with high performers, professionals, nutritionists, anyone who's going to help you perform better, live a healthier, active lifestyle. At the end of the day, that's what we're here for. That's what I'm trying to do. Like Evan, I identify a problem, analyze and then provide data-driven recommendations. That's what we do here on the athletes podcast. We listen to professionals like Evan who are putting in the work, like he did at the speed project and then putting stuff into action. And you folks speaking of putting things into action, all I ask is that, if you're listening, if you've consumed our content and you appreciate what we do, share this with another athlete or individual who you think it will benefit and hit that subscribe button so that we can keep doing this on a weekly basis. I sincerely appreciate your folks attention and for clicking on this episode. I can't wait for you to tune in.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Listen to Evan Birch speak. He's just an all-around superb human being and you'll be able to hear all of it during this episode. We're powered by Perfect Sports. Thank you, folks, for tuning in. If you want the best protein on the market, be sure to be taking Perfect Sports diesel protein. This is episode 224 of the Athletes Podcast, featuring Evan Birch. Here we go of advice for the next generation of athletes, from underdogs to national champions. This is the athletes podcast, where high performance individuals share their triumphs, defeats and life lessons to educate, entertain and inspire the next generation of athletes. Here we go. Evan birch, fresh off the speed project, welcome to the athletes podcast.

Speaker 2: 2:01

Thanks for coming on, man yeah, thanks, I appreciate you having me. I know we've been trying to connect for a little while, so, uh, yeah, I'm excited that it's kind of coming after a big, uh big effort like that yeah, well overdue.

Speaker 1: 2:12

I think it's probably what been I I want to say a year plus of us being in contact now almost, and between various first responders that we're also connected with, with such Sean Taylors, etc. Maybe, I guess, shine a little insight on your experience what got you into the sport of ultra running, your soccer background, and then I'll rudely interject at times to piece together how we've got a phenomenal human being in front of us.

Speaker 2: 2:41

Yeah, for sure, I'll try to leave a little space for you. Yeah, I played fairly competitive soccer my whole life. From the time I was five. My parents put me into soccer and I didn't want to play any other sport at all uh, up until kind of age 30. So I played for pretty much 25 years about as competitive as you can get in calgary at the time when I was around major league soccer and I decided that I wanted to do a sport that was purely for myself.

Speaker 2: 3:06

So I threw myself into off-road triathlons for a year some half distances, a couple full distances, having never swam competitively or anything from when I was younger and I really took to the trail running aspect because I had been trail running for you know, now I guess it's been about 20 years and just shorter distances but I really gravitated towards the longer distance piece of the trail running out of those off-road triathlons and it uh, yeah, it kind of gripped me because I was always kind of placing near the top of those and from there I've just been. You know that was 2014, 2015. And then I had my two, my two kids, on and off throughout those, uh, a few years and then I just threw myself into longer distances and uh, lo and behold, I just finished just close to 300 miles at the speed project last week.

Speaker 1: 3:52

So, uh, it's been, uh, it's been quite the journey we were going through your instagram stories seeing the withdrawals that were occurring from the speed project. Maybe shine some light on what the heck that experience was like from LA to Vegas, nonstop, all gas, no brakes.

Speaker 2: 4:09

Yeah, it's wild to be able to try to put that week into words. It starts with the crew that I had with me. I pretty much kind of handpicked the people that I wanted around me and luckily, everybody that I pretty much wanted there, that I asked, was able to come. So, first of all, you know, people putting their lives on hold for a week for you to do something absolutely crazy is like in itself pretty amazing that people are willing to put their lives on hold for something like that, for to help you out. Obviously my fiance is along for the ride as the crew chief, so she was all in. But for people to just stop their lives is pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 4:50

Yeah, it was absolutely wild, from basically starting at the Santa Monica Pier in LA, running through LA, through downtown LA and then ending up in the desert in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 2: 5:02

It was like complete juxtaposition of like running in downtown LA with you know fairly, you know, I would say you know a large, you know unhomed population in the area and just completely different dynamics between running in the city versus ending up quite literally in the middle of nowhere, being able to see horizon to horizon and looking straight down this basically power line road with giant power line towers beside you, where you're like, well, I guess I'm running until I hit the sun, like it's. Uh, yeah, it was absolutely insane. And coming down from that is it's always. You know, I always tell people, especially some of the athletes that I work with and uh, coach on the side is you know, to come down from something like that and not have a plan afterwards, you can definitely end up with kind of the post race blues and like I want to be back there. I don't feel that way. I just feel like I got so much out of this experience that I'm going to be able to take with me.

Speaker 1: 6:00

There's no rules, there's no spectators. The concept of this race is very unique. You talked about it starting in LA, santa Monica, unlike any other experience in the past.

Speaker 2: 6:14

Because of that, yeah, I mean the best way I can describe it to people when they've asked me how would you compare it to what you've done before and it's pretty much like your aid station is constantly moving with you is the best way to describe it. It's like you have a rolling aid station, that is, you know, plus or minus 15 kilometers away from you at any point. Now, when we got in the off-road sections, we had a four by four Jeep with us, so the Jeep would only go one to two miles ahead. I was running super light. I only had basically a handheld with me, which in the desert by yourself you would never do. So it was very unique in the sense of, like, I was able to run with just a water bottle and you know a chew or you know a fruit bar or something with me and be able to stop, drop my bottle off and just keep going. So it was very unique in the sense of I got to choose all the stops, I got to choose my route, I got to choose when I slept, the only like we say no rules, but the only rules really are don't run on the interstate, because it's actually illegal to run on the interstate in the US and don't commit any crimes. Those are really kind of the two.

Speaker 2: 7:20

You know, if authorities stop you, it's. You know, you're not're, you're just running from la to vegas, you're there's. You don't kind of you don't kind of talk about what you're doing in the group and all the other people that are doing it. So it's very you know. They call it like an unsanctioned race. So it's. There is no official start line and there is no official finish line. Yes, on paper there is, but there's not. You know, there's not like a pomp and circumstance, somebody handing out medals at the end, um, when you get there.

Speaker 1: 7:45

So it's a very fight club-esque of them to do uh the it's got to be different. It's got to be different, like from your experience. You know you're hiking running in Banff, alberta, with bear spray on you compared to a chew and a water bottle, right.

Speaker 2: 8:14

Yeah, like I can honestly say that I felt a little bit more unease running in like the downtown LA sections because I was by myself for those. I did have pacers for some of the other sections, but I decided I wanted to run the first kind of marathon by myself. But I decided I wanted to run the first kind of marathon by myself and I felt less safe in the sense of like my own personal safety, just because you know somebody could or couldn't do, just based on the way you looked or what you were doing around them. Or if I was wearing a light vest then I might have looked like the authorities or something like that. So lots of other things to consider when you're doing a route like this. And yeah, it was just the juxtaposition between the two. I think that was. What was crazy for me is the vastness. When you get out in the desert and how quite literally far away you are from everything is like completely unreal, so different than when you're running on the mountain trails it, uh, something.

Speaker 1: 9:21

I've only driven ever that distance, but maybe one day we'll do the speed project. And it's crazy to hear you talk about the concern for your well-being, given that you come from a two-decade career in emergency services as a professional and being exposed to, I'm sure, much worse than what downtown LA looks like at the moment, not to say that it doesn't look terrible. I've been there and it's in definitely rough shape, but nonetheless, you've seen rough things in the past. This is also part of why we originally connected the first responders athletics, high performance, mindset, mental health. I would love for you to maybe peel back the layers of the onion that is your career that led to you picking up ultra running, eliminating team sports, going into individual. What that process has looked like.

Speaker 2: 10:16

Yeah, so my career is basically 20 years within emergency services, within emergency dispatch, communications, so everything from fire, police, ems to air ambulance as well, working for Stars Air Ambulance for a period of years here in Alberta for those that are familiar with that organization and yeah, I mean, you know my job was to help people on quite literally their worst day and you know help sometimes, in some cases save their life, and that you know those things. You don't realize how much you put in your backpack over that period of time. I was always very, I guess, very direct and very aware of like me saying that I'm leaving work, at work, and I didn't quite realize how much I was actually taking with me, because I was able to stay calm, cool and collective in those moments and that's what was expected of the job when I started. Mental health discussions and other things wasn't really talked about that much back in the 2005 era, right? So you take a bad call and you move forward and you just kind of talk about it and make sure you're okay. And you know you take a bad call and you move forward and you just you kind of talk about it, make sure you're okay and you, you keep going.

Speaker 2: 11:27

Um, it's becoming more prevalent now, but, uh, it definitely caught up with me after a period of years and you know I kind of correlate my increase in distance of running to as things got a little bit worse for me.

Speaker 2: 11:40

And you know it's weird making that correlation because you know I used running as a way to avoid things for a very long time. Unconsciously I wasn't consciously saying like I'm going to go run the mountains for six hours so I don't have to think about this, but what it was giving me back was helping me through everything that I wasn't managing, until such point that I actually, like, stopped running for a period of months, that I actually stopped running for a period of months. I had started getting night sweats, night terrors, sleeping two hours a night, and it was just after Christmas of 2021. Spoke with my girlfriend now fiancee at the time and said I hit it for months and said I need help and I can't do this by myself. So I ended up seeking help and I had to really, over that period of time, figure out a new relationship with running and if I could find a way to really make essentially run for different reasons and really wrap my head around. Is that possible?

Speaker 1: 12:43

How'd you do it?

Speaker 2: 12:50

head around. Is that possible? How'd you do it? Yeah, I think, um, you know I really had to.

Speaker 2: 12:52

There was a lot of self-reflection and a lot of you know me fully surrendering to the process of asking for that help. You know I was. I was the type of person that is super competitive and I essentially went into therapy trying to win at therapy. That's the best way I can explain to people with you know, when you go in and you're not fully committed to the process of something you tend to, you know, still push back a little bit. So I basically had to surrender to the process of, you know, cracking myself completely wide open and figuring out what pieces remained.

Speaker 2: 13:26

And for a lot of people even in the sports world I think can probably relate to this, especially first responder emergency services community you really tie your identity to what you do and then, whether it's you get injured or in my case, I'm now in a position where I'm considering myself medically retired, not able to return to the position that I was in before, and you really have no sense of self when that is gone, whether it's injury or whether you retire from a career or whether you retire from the job itself, and you're kind of lost.

Speaker 2: 14:01

For quite a long time you don't quite know, like, who you are as a person, because you had, you know, people ask you like, oh, what do you do? And instantly you're defining yourself by like, oh, I'm a soccer player, I'm a, you know, I'm an emergency first responder, I'm a dispatcher. You never actually talk about like who you are deep down, like your values as a person, like, and I think that's that's a struggle for a lot of people and I think that that was definitely a barrier for me. So I think you know, biggest piece of advice I can pass on to people is just like, don't tie yourself so closely to what you do as your identity, cause once it's gone like, you quite literally don't know where like where to go or who you are.

Speaker 1: 14:46

Yeah, I think that's why I try. I try to do a bunch of things, that I'm not tied to one identity. Uh, no, I. Honestly.

Speaker 1: 14:50

You athletes we see it all the time, right, every single year you see athletes who retire and go through the same thing. My dad was a member of the fire service for 28 years. Grandfather was RCMP for 32. Both of them, as soon as they retired, had other things that they were doing, and I think there's a reason for that, right, because they probably identified that they weren't going to be able to completely shut it off and not have something else to take up their time and energy and focus. And it probably saves a lot of folks, right, and I think that's you know. Fortunately, there's people like yourself out there who are also sharing the stories. That's you know. Fortunately, there's people like yourself out there who are also sharing the stories around. Maybe, before you get to that point where you need to source out help, there's proactive things we can do in the meantime. I guess, from your experience now, are there methods that you've been using to stay proactive and maybe to reach out to others who are in the service who may or could benefit from talking about this.

Speaker 2: 15:47

Yeah, I think the biggest thing up front is, like you're talking about that proactive nature of it and I think you know I think it starts with the organizations and I, you know I don't want to put all the onus on the organizations, because I do believe there is some internal motivation that you need to be able to stay healthy yourself, internal motivation that you need to be able to stay healthy yourself. But I do think there is a responsibility of organizations to foster that psychological safety and that safe place that people know if they're struggling, that they have a place to go to, that it's not going to be. There's no fear of retribution or anything like that. I would like to say that that's common across the board, but I can honestly say it's not just in the conversations of the people that I've connected with over the last two years myself through social media. You know you talk about Sachin and a few other people. You know it's not a one-off within the organizations and I think you know there's a famous quote um desmond tutu has is. You know we need to go.

Speaker 2: 16:47

We need to stop just pulling people out of the river and we need to go upstream and find out where they're falling in in the first place and that, like when I heard that quote when I was going through kind of my healing process and my treatments and when I heard that, it really kind of struck a chord with me of like, like I, I didn't have to be in this position and nobody should have to be in this position.

Speaker 2: 17:09

So what changes can be made systemically within emergency services, within sports, within whatever that is?

Speaker 2: 17:18

And I think there's a lot more coming out now and I'm optimistic that I know there's some safe sport, canada stuff and a few other things that have come out in the sporting world, and I know that organizations are doing what they can and not there's not one shoe fits for everybody and there just has to be enough, you know, enough understanding and belief that you know we have somewhere to turn to in those moments and it's not going to be looked down upon or you're not going to be blacklisted for something, because I think those of us that are actually speaking up and out about it, I think it's super courageous for those who have gone through it to speak up and out and understand that those people that are speaking up and out at one.

Speaker 2: 18:03

And that's really what I'm trying to use my sports for my ultra running and my career. That I'm doing now, doing these hard things, raising awareness and raising funds for mental health alongside of that, to show people that you can do hard things. You can do these things. You just have to be able to put your mind to it and do it.

Speaker 1: 18:39

I just think it's opening doors for other people to speak when they know that you're there, not alone in speaking up 100% and I, like I listened to 10 plus first responders at sessions a night to inspire this past weekend in downtown Vancouver and these are conversations that need to be happening and clearly there are people out there that are trying to do this. Even a guy like Andy Glaze, firefighter down in LA, who I'm sure you're familiar with, like smile or you're doing it wrong, like these things that we take for granted during our days and as people who belong in society and who see first responders doing their job, they don't realize the impact that is on their body, on their minds, when these calls are happening constantly. I was just visiting a fire department yesterday in Vancouver and they are dealing with five, 10, 15 calls during one day. You do a call every hour. The stress that goes on in your mind. There's no decompression time. It's actually what's got me excited. I've connected with a ton of people Lauren Friesen, steve Farina, matt Johnson, others within the West Coast kind of mental health space and it's like with Expert VR. One of my missions is to build a mindfulness return to work simulation that will allow for us to provide first responders the ability to hey, you just experienced a super traumatic event. Let's maybe take a minute here to decompress, because even return to work standard operating procedures now is someone goes into a vehicle and then does a drive around. Hey Joe, you good to go. I I'm not an expert in the field. That's why I have experts on this show and that's why I talk to them in person. But I know that there's opportunities to your point because sports have been using this for decades, pilots have been using this for decades. Our first responders, our frontline operators, deserve the same.

Speaker 1: 20:39

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Speaker 1: 21:00

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Speaker 1: 21:22

Hydro splash to stay hydrated Good combination here. Great flavor in the peach. Use that post-workout after the sauna sessions. You know we got to get those in. And then creatine it's the most research supplement in the market, obviously. People have been using it for decades and the research is there. If you want to be putting on size, adding strength, creatine is a supplement that you should be adding to your repertoire without further ado. Let's get back to this episode. Thank you for tuning in again. Big shout out to our partner, perfect sports supplements for powering the athletes podcast. Back to the show. You mentioned the fact that you also get some charitable work and the benefits are not just for you personally. Can you talk about kind of how you've been able to tie in that charitable aspect and raising funds for a cause?

Speaker 2: 22:06

For sure. Yeah, so the organization that I'm an ambassador for is called bigger than the trail, so they're a U S based charity, but they provide mental health supports to anybody within the endurance community and anybody that kind of touches that community. So it's not just you know, youquisite doesn't mean you have to be an endurance runner, it just means you have to have some kind of tie into the community. And what they do is they actually provide online access to some of these virtual counseling programs like Calmery BetterHelp, so you basically put your email in and they provide a certain number of sessions no, no questions asked free of charge, um, so the way that they've been able to manage that is obviously donations. They have, you know, charity race bibs. They have people creating events, just like me and doing these races and raising funds alongside of that.

Speaker 2: 22:53

So I mean, over the last year, I think, once I tally up what I've been able to raise from this event itself, I think I've, I think I've probably surpassed $5,000 in the last year, um, just my own personal through my events, uh, as well as my own personal racing. So, um, and that, you know, that equates to, I think, trying to think of it, I think it's like $180 per um per person for three months. So I've essentially been able to help. What is that? That's about 25 people for three months of counseling over the last year, just me alone through my fundraising.

Speaker 2: 23:30

So being able to know that I can give back in that way through not only just my running aspect of it but also, you know, I'm sure some people are first responders in other areas and it's really just kind of charity that I kind of latched onto just because of their mentality and it's all volunteer run. There's not some big CEO sitting at the top making $80,000 a year. It's actually fully volunteer run and it's a lot of work for them and I think they're up to like $10,000 a month is what it's costing them to be able to keep things going. So you know, 120,000 a year for a volunteer run charity is pretty steep to be able to maintain that level of fundraising. So being able to have a, you know, a big piece of that for me is pretty rewarding.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Can you talk to me about, obviously like that's an ecstatic number to be able to share when it's also bettering what you're trying to focus on in people's mental health. I know you work with some different organizations as well, revitalize being one of them, a local Calgary brand there getting that tea in. Can you mention some of the other brands that you worked with? I know you were throwing back a ton of different supplements throughout that little speed project, so share more about the tactics that went into that nutrition-wise training. Anything specific different that you did. That was super unique.

Speaker 2: 24:52

Yeah, so Revita has been kind of ever since probably a couple of years ago kind of got connected with them and I kind of helped them on the side a little bit with some of the things that they're doing. And Mitch and Carly the brother and sister that run that organization, they're incredible like what they're doing and how they're supporting me. It blows my mind. It's so amazing to be able to connect with a local organization and a local company in that way. So, yeah, they've been steadfast supporters right from the get-go. Again, they sit and go like I can't believe you're doing this, but just go for it. It was amazing, yeah, and I mean I've been pretty lucky with some of the other sponsorships and ambassador roles that I have. So I'm working with On On Running or they're just called On now. I've been an ambassador with them for a few years as well as CLA, which is very kind of steeped in the running community as well. So they're a brand out of Montreal. And then Exact Nutrition, who I started with this year and I used a little bit of their products last year. So that was kind of my primary nutrition was their electrolyte tabs, as well as their fruit bars and a few other things that, uh, their protein bars that I use and then, quite honestly, just like real food.

Speaker 2: 26:06

I I've had to switch over the last couple years to move away from kind of liquid calories, uh. So I mean it's funny if you, if you were to actually like sit down and go like, okay, 464 kilometers, what is? What is that? Well, it's almost, you know, 12 marathons in a row. So you factor in the number Again. If you break it down to that way, you really start to understand, like, how much actually has to go into your body. And I think you know I don't trust calorie counters on watches very well, but I mean it did, say I I burned 30 000 calories over those 94 hours. So, uh, you can only imagine what, what you're trying to do to replenish that while you're, while you're racing. So luckily my crew always had food for me. I was maybe a little bit of a baby sometimes and saying no to certain things, but I'm slowly learning. You can't have a preference when you're racing. You just have to like it's fuel, it's calories, like it's got to go in did you?

Speaker 1: 27:00

did you track everything that you put down like do you have a number of what you actually threw back, like was it 12 pb and j's a bunch of like?

Speaker 2: 27:07

give me the details yeah, like I think we have. Uh, I know my fiance was keeping track the best she could with uh you know what she was giving me. But I mean at some point, like you, just there's so much sleep deprivation between you and your crew. You do so much that you possibly can. There's going to be things that are going to get missed and stuff like that. But I mean I was having like an exact bar every 45 minutes when I was like if I were to like put it down on paper type thing. So I mean you factor that in over 95 hours, like yeah it just it boggles your mind how much you're actually putting in.

Speaker 2: 27:39

And I'll be honest, like the week after an ultra is just as bad because you're trying to replace so many calories. Like I am a bottomless pit. I can, I could eat all day and still be hungry. It's uh yeah, and obviously the the sleep deprivation and you coming off of that trying to get your sleep back in order as well, pretty tough, cause your sleep back in order as well. Pretty tough because your body is in a constant fight or flight mode still from all of that. Like you know, five and a half hours sleep in 94 hours is pretty hard on the body. So you know I'm trying to take afternoon naps over this last week and just doing what I can to try to get myself back to some semblance of normal I two years ago did the goggins challenge, whereas the four miles every four hours for 48 hours and feel like that is a sliver of what you just went through, and I was feeling like arse for days after.

Speaker 1: 28:34

So I can only imagine the way you were. What was that for you post race and I guess even before that? Like, why do this? Because 464 kilometers is a pretty dang far distance to travel and it's a lot to put your body through. You obviously have been training lots. You You're fueled up, but man, that's a lot.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Yeah, somebody said to me you probably could have raised the same amount of money just running a marathon, right, so, selfishly, I could sit here and say that I'm running for only mental health and to help people, but if that was the case, I probably would only run a marathon. So there's something intrinsic that makes you want to do that like extra bit, because that's for me. Like, I'll be honest, like that extra, that extraness to it is for me, and I think you know people have asked me, like what is it? I'm like, I'm just so curious to see if, like what, my like, what is my actual empty, like what, what is my line of? Like I'm done, I can't go anymore and I haven't reached it yet. So you know, you know, having done a 200 miler in september in the mountains and crow's nest pass that was the inaugural divide, 200 and then now doing this and going like, okay, well, well, I did like an additional like 100 miles on top, almost just shy of it, because my route was a little bit shorter than 300 miles. But you know, what is that empty for me? I don't think I have that answer and I think, until I have that answer, I'm going to keep pushing myself.

Speaker 2: 30:13

And again, I think it's you have to be intrinsically motivated to do this. And I mean, I'm one of those weird people that doesn't run with music. So if somebody were to ask me, like, did you listen to podcasts or books or listen to music during this 464 kilometers? Not once. I didn't have headphones in my ear, I didn't have my cell phone on. I was quite literally thinking about nothing other than, like, one foot in front of the other, moving forward the entire time. That was like, unless I'm at my aid station having a rest with my crew, I'm moving forward like there's no standing on the trail. It was, it was, it was constant forward motion in order to, you know, push as far as I could. And I still think that there's so much more that I can do with that, because I know how much time I might have wasted in the aid stations that I go. Did I need to sit, or could I have kept going? Or did I just use that as a crutch because it was there? So I think there's a lot of yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:08

I guess the answer is no. I don't have to do this. Why do I do it? It's like inner child curiosity of like is this possible and how fast can I do it? And that you know that's a pretty cool place to be coming at, something going like I want to tap into that like inner joy piece of it.

Speaker 2: 31:34

And you kind of asked earlier about, like how did I, how did I switch from running away from all my problems and avoiding things into this stage?

Speaker 2: 31:41

And, to be honest, like I don't think I would be doing these things had I not been able to make that switch, because before I was unconsciously I was trading pain for pain.

Speaker 2: 31:52

You know, I was dealing with stuff internally that my mind wasn't ready to deal with by pushing myself in the longer distances. And now I'm actually coming out from a place of like joy and like self-worth and self-love and going like you know what, if we're going to be here, like let's have fun, but when there's work to be done, like there's work to be done, like I was joking with my crew in the rv during my aid station stops and like I was still you know still laughing and joking and that's how I know it's coming from like a very like grounded internal place now, where it's not from a place of wounding, it's from a place of worth, like I, I care about my body, but I also know what I'm capable of, especially if I put in the proper training. Um so, and we can maybe get more into the training aspect, because this one was definitely a little bit different than what I've done in the past as well too yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1: 32:44

I mean, you see a guy like such do 22 marathons in 22 days from revelstoke to victoria. He does some crazy training. He's running in White Rock every Sunday. I'm going to be joining him this summer. What did your training look like through this, if it was a little bit different?

Speaker 2: 33:00

yeah. So the difference being, as I came off my 200 miler last year just dealing with a little bit on again, off again knee injury and it ended up. I ended up taking some time off just to rest it and then I ended up getting back to running and it still wasn't going away. So I ended up having some calcification on my patellar tendon that was causing some pretty awful burning pain after any distance runs over 10K. So I had to make a decision in December, knowing that I had this race in March race in March. I could either go like a topical anti-inflammatory route or I could go the plasma replacement therapy to try to get things moving faster. But if I took the plasma replacement therapy it was going to take me out for six weeks before I could actually start building any of my mileage back. So I chatted with my coach and we kind of decided let's go for it. So I got the injection in the middle of December and I didn't actually I I was at basically zero kilometers on january 1st from basically the time of the end of september until then. So I pretty much had to build from zero, starting in january up until this race on march 25th, and the way that we did it with my coach. We basically said you're either gonna, your body's gonna respond to it or it's.

Speaker 2: 34:15

And I ended up taking on a strength trainer as well too, over that period of time to just really do whatever I possibly could to get myself ready for it for the distance. So I was strength training three days a week and then I was running four days a week and all my running was basically condensed into like longer blocks of time. So I would do maybe one or two short runs during the week and then on the weekend I would be like doing back-to-back. You know back-to-back runs like adding 10% every single week up until the race. So we pretty much didn't taper at all and I built right into the race. So the weekend before I did two back-to-back 50Ks. The weekend before and the week before I did two back-to-back 50 Ks. Um, the weekend before and the week before that, because it was so cold in Calgary, I had to actually go to the indoor track morning and night on the Saturdays and Sundays, ended up putting like 80 kilometers in on the indoor track at MMP, a 200 meter track.

Speaker 2: 35:14

I know I was prepared physically. I was basically at the best I could possibly be given the time constraints, and I don't recommend anybody trying to build this way. It's not, you know, I've got a lot of years underneath my legs now with being able to push these distances and knowing what my body's capable of. But it was a very like unorthodox build but I mean but I have one of the best coaches out there that I trusted him, honestly, what we were able to do with this race. I'm confident that I'm going to be able to do so much more this year. Just because I took that injection in December. Cross my fingers. Everything is going really well. I got a little bit of a leg issue that came out of the speed project, but I don't think it's going to bother me too much to take a couple weeks off. But yeah it was. It was a very unorthodox but it worked.

Speaker 1: 36:01

Yeah, I think I've heard you on a previous podcast talking about the fact that it's at this point you're just seeing what your body's capable of doing, seeing what your body's capable of doing, and you really now have built up a confidence that you can go into most races, even if it's 200 miles, and be like I know how I'm going to perform, and that's even when you maybe can't build the same way. You don't include a taper into your training. That's just a testament A to how well the human body can adapt and be the mental fortitude you've probably built up over the two decades between your personal experiences as well as shared experiences, having gone through it with others. Right? Am I correct in saying it's probably a culmination of all the above?

Speaker 2: 36:46

oh, I mean, without a doubt. I mean, when you look at you put it all on paper, everything that I've done over the last five years for these increased distances, like it's all cumulative right, like it's all basically giving you this body of work that you can lean on and go like, okay, like this, this is going to be hard, but you've already done this, this and this, and recognizing that it's, you know, like, my big thing is not verbalizing negative thoughts, especially when you're you know you're going through an injury or perfect. Example 170 K and at the speed project I had a really sharp pain just below my calf that I didn't recognize, I'd never had it before Stopped me in my tracks. I walked for like five minutes. I'm like okay, like didn't, didn't get any worse. Five minutes, I'm like okay, didn't get any worse. Got back to my crew about 5k later and realized that there was a little bit of like a, not a bulge, but just like a little bit of swelling in the area. I'm like, okay, I don't know what this is. I don't want to get too caught up on it Because, again, if you start making statements, it's really easy to like, your mind just goes down this rabbit hole of like this is bad, this is bad, this isn't going to work.

Speaker 2: 37:54

Whereas I go right to problem solving and I start asking questions, I'm like, okay, all right, so it didn't. Like it doesn't, I can run on it. I got here so clearly, like it can't be that bad. Like, okay, what are our like, what are our goals? Okay, we could put ice on it, we can put heat on it, we can kt tape it, we can um, you know, we can try all these things. And then I can start to like just break things down, as opposed to sitting there and, just like you know, sitting in a lump of being like, oh, my leg hurts, my leg hurts, my leg hurts because, enough, if you can get your mind wrapped around it, enough, you're just like send yourself into an injury and you're going to be off or you're going to quit.

Speaker 2: 38:31

And I think that's where that mental forward to like you talk about. I've been through so much and all these experiences that I now have, I innately know that I have all the tools available to me. I just have to allow myself to access those. And you know, we called my coach, we KT taped it and I ran 300K on it.

Speaker 2: 38:48

So you know, there's there's a little bit of that like mentality, of like understanding sometimes that it is going to hurt. I mean, we don't do these things because we don't think it's not going to hurt, but there's a there's a line that you kind of have to meet a few times before you're willing to be like no, I felt this before. I'm willing to take a chance and just like keep moving forward and sure enough, it worked. So it's, um, yeah, the mental aspect of it is, you know, my coaches. One of my coaches famous quotes is uh, ultra running is 90% mental, the other 10% is in your head and that and that. That's what ultra running is Like. As soon as you get over a certain distance, like the body is capable, you just need to like bring your mind along with you.

Speaker 1: 39:32

I believe it was ben hogan that had something similar with golf too, and it's uh, it's so true. Uh, not having done any ultra marathons and only spoken with the handful of individuals who have, I can safely say that it is definitely a mental game and, uh, obviously it's helped you been accomplished. These crazy feats now. Was this something that you ever imagined growing up, playing soccer? Were there people that inspired you growing up that you're like I want to look up and do these kind of aspirational crazy feats? Were your parents like? Give me a bit of backstory there yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:09

I mean the short answer is no. I mean I grew up playing team sports soccer, I did like 3,000-meter track in junior high, never really was a track athlete in high school, never went to college university because I started my career right out of the gate. So I never was on any teams or anything like that or exposed to it. And I think I was exposed to trail running fairly young, like in my early twenties, through five peaks, uh, which you'll be maybe familiar if they do kind of grassroots trail running events, and um, that was kind of my first exposure to trail running and I think there's just for me there's just like something about being in nature that is just like soul filling, like there's just something about it. And you know, in my case, like being out there for 94 hours is like like excessive soul filling, but it's one of those things that it's just when I'm out there, I quite literally don't think about anything else. There's nothing else on my mind. I'm not thinking about you know what? What bills do I have to pay, or anything like last week I felt like I was on an absolute another planet. It was not real life, everything just shut down. I came back after the race and I had 250 emails and I'm sitting there I'm like, is that really what I get? In a week, I have to sift through all this stuff and you start unsubscribing from things and you're like, is this really what I want to be doing with my life? Like I would rather be doing adventures like this and going out and doing this like two or three times a year to fill my cup, cause, like I'll tell you, like the, the group of people within the speed project, community is next level. Like the, just the camaraderie and the, the teams and the crews and everybody wanting to help one another out, and there's nothing you know.

Speaker 2: 41:56

Everybody talks about like community and connection as being so important, especially nowadays, and I think I feel like I found like a completely different community that I didn't even know was available to me, having never even like had any aspirations to do anything like this and just realizing like, okay, I might have been the guy on the soccer field that could stay on the field for the full 90 minutes, but that's all I really knew about myself is I had the endurance to do it, but actually doing it is a completely different thing, right? It's like you're choosing this all the time Running is just constant yes, or choosing this all the time. Like running is like just constant yes or no questions the entire time, like I have to actively choose to continue. Every time I got to the RV, every time I got to the Jeep, it's a choice and I think that's where you know people's minds start to play tricks on them.

Speaker 2: 42:45

I'm like I could quit right now. Like it'd be very easy for me to just like pack it and say I'm done, but I don't want to. I want to be here. It's really that intrinsic motivation. I don't think external motivation is going to get anybody to run 464 kilometers.

Speaker 1: 43:05

It won't Extrinsic, it's not going to get you very far. Honestly, it might get you to that first hump, that second, but it's not going to be sustained success. You brought up the nature piece and I know I brought up Satch's event a night to inspire a couple of times. But Travis Bader is also someone who's the host of the silver core podcast and you're shaking your head, let you know. And he talks about, sorry, the benefits of nature for athletes, for humans.

Speaker 1: 43:31

And the quote actually I just pulled this up as Instagram. It's from John Weir and it says in every walk with nature, one receives far more than he seeks. And it's like you don't even realize the impact that a morning walk or that getting outside, getting fresh air, sunlight, will do during your day. And I say this being stuck right now in an apartment in Edmonton where, like I was hoping to be able to do this one in person and I'm like I'm guilty of it. So, even though I hear it on a weekly basis the benefits I heard a Ted talk from Travis around this at the event and it's like these are things that we need to be doing more in life. We need to be doing less unsubscribing from emails and dealing with all that crap and more of connecting with people and the environment around us. Right, and for that I thank you for preaching that message.

Speaker 1: 44:21

On the Athletes Podcast, I know you've been trying to get on for a while now and this is a perfect time. Based on the Speed Project, we do wrap up by asking our guests their biggest piece of advice for the next generation of athletes. You kind of dropped yours at like the 12-minute mark, I believe, so I want to leave open the floor for you to give any other pieces of wisdom, insights, knowledge bombs that you want to drop share, even just from decades of the emergency services space, I'm sure there are lessons that can be shared from a leadership, management, organizational perspective that will benefit every single person that listens to the athletes podcast.

Speaker 2: 45:02

Yeah, I think the I think the one thing that we forget about as we get older is I'll bring it back to that childlike state of you know, staying curious, like, like. You have to have childlike state of staying curious. You have to have a certain level of curiosity, no matter what it is you're choosing to do, whether it's athletics, whether it's work, whatever it is, even in your personal life, if it's a hobby, whatever it is, if you want to go and do pottery, just have a certain level of curiosity, walking into everything, because it keeps your mind open to things. And you know, we get so lost in our heads sometimes that we don't realize, like, if we can get, like down and into our body and actually like, feel something like, because feeling is scary for some people and I I recognize that and you know I was guilty of that. I I taught myself how not to feel for a very long time and being able to get back to that for me and understanding of like last week and what I experienced and what I felt from that whole group of people and that whole just opportunity that presented itself. If I wasn't curious, I don't think I would have walked away with the level of experience that I was hoping for out of it. So when it comes to that that would be kind of my one piece of advice for athletes and when it comes to kind of the mental health space, the work-related pieces, I think the number one thing is just know that you're not alone in this.

Speaker 2: 46:26

A lot of us are speaking up and out now because we know that nobody should have to do this alone, even though we in a lot of instances had to do it alone and just recognize, just because you're in the dark, there's always just that little sliver of light hiding under the door and all you need is a little bit of light to be able to move towards something so you know where you're going.

Speaker 2: 46:50

So just keep your eyes locked on that little bit of light, even if it's so, so tiny, and just recognize it's shared experience that really is going to get you there. And I'm an open book. People reach out to me. I'm amazed at the number of people that reach out to me on a regular basis just asking me my own opinion and how I can help them or what they should do. And I'm not a psychologist, but I think it just tells me that I'm on the right path and that alignment with just moving forward and understanding like we don't have to do this alone, and that's I think the biggest piece of advice I could pass on is don't do it alone.

Speaker 1: 47:31

The power of being able to share your story. The power of the internet fortunately allows for things like this to happen. Evan, I can't thank you enough for what you're doing, what you continue to do, being able to provide your perspective today with our listeners to me. Honestly, I I know I was impacted when we first spoke. Now, when we're chatting again and, I'm sure, in the future, as we connect in person sometime in Calgary when we go for a round up in the great Banff, or I was up at Tent Ridge 18 months ago and that was pretty spectacular, so maybe we'll have to do something like that again. Either way, I just want to thank you again for your time and what you're doing in the space, and hopefully we can continue to see you performing at your best, whether it's the Speed Project or every other 200-mile race that you're signing up for. Maybe we can leave us with where you're going next or what the big plans are for the future.

Speaker 2: 48:25

Yeah. So next up is the BC Backyard Ultra, which is a last-man-standing event at the end of April, and then Tahoe 200 is my next 200 miler in June. So I'll be getting my body prepared for that and we'll see how many hours I can go.

Speaker 1: 48:41

BC Backyarder. Where's that ripping?

Speaker 2: 48:44

That one is going to be in Sycamuse this year.

Speaker 1: 48:47

Okay, might be a bit of a drive for me to get to Sycamuse, but it sounds so fun to say we might just have to do it. Who knows, evan, thanks for your time. I appreciate it. Thanks, dave. Hey, thank you so much for tuning in to the Athletes Podcast. This is the 224th episode. Big ups goes to Evan for coming on the show post the Speed Project. Obviously, there were some incredible athletes who performed during this competition and for everyone who did take part, thank you for those who donated to evan's cause. Thank you also because this makes a difference. These things matter and you're making a difference in this world. I hope you have a great rest of your day. We'll see you next week for another new episode of the athletes podcast powered by perfect sports. Thanks so much, bye.