Healing with Plants, Forgiveness + Astrology / Tami + Selima Lust of Iwilla Remedy

Tami + Selima Lust of Iwilla Remedy talk with us about herbalism, the role of emotions in sustainable healing work and the value of forgiveness in our healing journeys. 

WE DISCUSS / 

*Why the “whole-systems thinking” of natural healing + holistic healing is vital 
*Why we often  tolerate or endure unnecessary pain + illness
*Tami + Selima's  personal healing journeys
*Facilitating healing space vs “fixing people”
*Our contemporary notion of “health" and where it falls short
*The special invitations + lessons that plants offer us 
*The role(s) of forgiveness in healing
*The common conditions that they see in their students
*Learning to look at our patterns objectively 
*How Tami + Selima successfully partner together in life, love + business 
*What they wish more people understood about their health in 2020

FIND more about Tami, Selima + Iwilla Remedy
Iwilla Remedy website
Iwilla Remedy IG

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN EPISODE

Greenlights, book by Matthew McConaughey

Year of Yes, book by Shonda Rhimes

Born a Crime, book by Trevor Noah

Ava DuVernay, filmmaker 

Jane Fonda in Five Acts, documentary

FREE RESOURCES

~free~ class on How to Not Need Instagram (+ why you don't need more followers)

FREE prompts for January's astrology

STAY CONNECTED

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Transcript

mary grace allerdice: 0:09

My name is Mary Grace, and this is the home body podcast. And here we're exploring the home as a body and body as a home. I host spiritually and artfully minded conversations on a body meant on approaching life as practice artistic collaboration and experiment. We'll talk about healing, art, aesthetics, magic, the practices we can bring to hone our intuition and live our life fully awake with our power intact. My hope is to encourage and enlighten you, and to also cultivate awareness and freedom. We're here to develop wisdom and self trust and to be dynamic agents of beauty. We're here to design and be more intentional with the creation of our life. And we are here to make room for inquiry, sensitivity and joy. Thank you for listening.

Selima Harleston Lust: 1:04

You know, our bodies and this planet, our homes. While we're in these lifetimes, and these are supposed to be safe spaces for us. And plants never violate, like they will. They can help you. Remember that you can trust your body. Remember that you can trust nature, remember that you can and at some point, remember that you can trust people again, especially if you've been harmed people.

mary grace allerdice: 1:32

Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's episode of The homebody podcast. I'm really excited to share our conversation with you today. My guests are Tami + Selima Lust and together they are Iwilla Remedy. We had so much fun recording this episode talking about plants pain, healing and also how they partner together so well in life and also business. Before we jump into the episode, I want to let you know about a couple of gifts that you can take advantage of. One is if you would like more of a forecast episode for January's astrology and energy and my personal divination for the month you can go back and listen to last week's episode and catch up on that. You can also go to the link below to get free prompts for personalizing this month energy and transits and also Tarot I pulled for the month, it is a free resource that I send out each month. So head to the link below in the show notes to get yours if you don't already get them. They're meant to serve as a simple, beautiful guide for to help you navigate and check in with your own center as you move through the cosmic weather for the month. And also I taught a free class last week on why you don't need Instagram, or more followers to run your business, your side hustle your freelance gigs, your creative projects, I just recently deleted the app, my profile is still up as a sort of weathervane but I'm no longer engaging with it. It was really beginning to tax my mental health drain my energy. And then when they released their new data policies on the 20th of December, I just had to say I'm out I just really felt like my body was very much telling me to stop. So I did. So even if you really love Instagram, I think it's really wise to have some backup plans for how you build community and engage with people who support your work. So this free class helps you walk through an introduction to how to begin to do that and engage with your community in a way that feels reciprocal and creative and good. Because I think business can feel good and consensual and reciprocal. I think building a community can feel good. And that's a conversation I'm here for and I'm working on more resources to support you in that so for now you can get the class that I just taught for free at the link below and let me know what you think about it. And as for today's episode, Tami Lust and Selima Harleston Lust are my guests today. And together they run Iwilla Remedy where they use herbal medicine as well as spiritual and emotional alchemy and astrology to facilitate healing journeys and spaces for others. In this episode, we talk about a lot of things. In the conversation I feel started super polite. And by the end, I feel like we're just talking over each other and laughing most of the time, it was so much fun, and I really loved getting to know them and their work and I hope you enjoy it too. We talk about what they do it I will as well as some other things like how healing is not just a physical journey, but also a spiritual and emotional process. We talk about some of the reasons why we tend to leave physical pain unaddressed. And we also talk about the really low bar that is our mainstream contemporary notion of health and where that tends to fall short. And they also share really beautifully about the special invitation and lessons that plants offer us in addition to some of their own personal healing journeys and what got them into this work. So I really hope that you enjoy the episode as much as I do. And with that, let us get into this conversation with Tami and Selima of Iwilla Remedy. I usually let people start by introducing themselves like introducing kind of what you do in the world and how you operate in the world. And then also your relationship to each other for those of us who don't know, would like to go first.

Selima Harleston Lust: 5:37

Sure, I am Selima Harleston Lust, wife to Tami and we have a beautiful son Niles. And the way that I contribute to society is by being a healer. And really, I'd like I actually don't like the word healer, I facilitate people's healing processes and help empower, help them remember their inner healer, through like my methods are herbalism medical, astrology, and spirituality.

mary grace allerdice: 6:05

Beautiful.

Tami Lust: 6:06

And I'm Tami Lust, a wonderful wife to Selima Lust... Harleston Lust and other mother to Nyles. And in Iwilla, I am the one that creates processes. I'm the one who creates systems. And so that also translates in to the greater world because that's how I also facilitate healing or facilitate the the helping of healing for others to help them break down what's going on instead of it being like so overwhelming.

mary grace allerdice: 6:49

Yes, I love that. I think I had this question for later. But since you're already bringing it up, we'll just jump into it now. But this I, I really feel like natural healing or healing that approaches that brings in a spiritual element as well addresses the emotional body as well as the physical body. Anytime we're trying to look at some treat something holistically, we're involved in like whole systems thinking or full systems thinking. And both of you all mentioned that. Do you mind talking about how that is a unique approach, potentially, in our understanding of healthcare at this moment, and why it's really important or why you have found it to be effective.

Unknown: 7:38

You

Tami Lust: 7:38

I'll start, Selima, and then you'll come in and clean it up. When when we first started on this journey, we really looked at things the way, let's just say like Western society kind of teaches you to look at things just look at the symptom. Right? So for example, when we started I had awful awful acne. And so we were just looking at the skin, right? And so what can you put on topically? What can you do? What can you do? And then you might veer a little deeper and say, Okay, what am I eating? How can I have more water, but only when we started putting an emotional component to it, a spiritual component to it, and a physical component to it, did I really start seeing changes within my skin? And that was like, oh, like, it all matters. And so trying to just look at something through one lens, perhaps will give you results for the moment, but they're not going to give you these long term results, right? Because going back to the acne, and I've never had it again, you might have bumps whatever but it was never what it was because we looked at it from a holistic perspective. And that just kind of blew the top off of everything for us. And so then we started approaching really everything in our lives that way and that's the way we teach.

Selima Harleston Lust: 9:07

Yeah, she said what I was gonna say um, but to add to that... you know like modern medicine, it really kind of teaches us to be like segregated and like fragmented in how we approach our healing like you have specialties are specialists who handle this and that realizing how interconnected Of course our body systems are, but there's a total separation in modern medicine from like the emotional body and the mental body and how that is really the the primary contributor of when we experience pain, illness, disease on the body, it's coming from within. And so we can't just tackle it from the the external we have to do the emotional work as well to exactly see, you know, like this is how we manifest doesn't matter. If it's manifesting a car was manifesting illness they come it starts internally, it starts in our minds, moves to our emotions, our sensations and then into our reality.

mary grace allerdice: 10:02

I think too, I've been thinking a lot about when I've had certain issues in my body. And when I was kind of frantically trying to find a solution for it quickly, a lot of times, we are willing to endure kind of emotional trauma in order to get a physical result, I do find that that is true for you or people who come to you.

Tami Lust: 10:27

I think that the emotional is far harder for people to tackle than the physical. And I do agree, I think people will stay in their emotional pain longer than they would stay or even deal with their physical pain. I think going through going deep into yourself can be a very scary process. And everyone doesn't want to do it. And even if you start, you might stop. But I do agree. And I think if people can kind of get over that speed hump and dive into themselves and really get to know themselves, the good bad and the ugly because we all have it. I think that they would see expedited healing from a physical perspective.

Selima Harleston Lust: 11:17

Yeah, I think that people are willing to endure, yeah, physical pain a lot longer. And tolerance, our toleration levels, right. Like what I've known people, and they're young, you know, we're like, we're young. So they're young, too, who have been on high blood pressure medications already for the majority of their lives. And it's like, I'm not even 40 How is that possible? Right. And, and we'll have sometimes physical symptoms that accompany it, but won't like and the body is a messenger, it is a masterful communicator, signaling to us when there's something internal that we need to work on. And even in those signals, they will endure the painful signals to not dive deeply into the emotional work. And it's like it that's just an it's an interesting mindset to be like I'm willing to endure taking this medication for the rest of my life. And I'm willing to tolerate the low level pain.

mary grace allerdice: 12:14

I think from here, I want to back up to where I was going to originally start. Tami, you mentioned that acne was kind of a background for you and like a jumping off point into learning to think more holistically about your own body system. And I'm sure Selima you have a story as well, Tami, you may have another one. But I'm interested in how you all came to this work. And this, not only the realization of this is being how our systems function, all of our bodies together. And also what was the journey like into wanting to step into the role of holding healing space for others and being kind of a guide through that space.

Tami Lust: 12:59

So it started with me in my acne. And it started with Google searches, and just ordering books, and reading and I started with essential oils. And just like formulating things, then I found who is our mentor, Karen Rose. I found her I don't even know how I found her. But I went to her shop one day and she was like, Yeah, I have an apprenticeship. And so I was like, I want to do it. So that means you want to do it to Selima. And she was like, okay, so we did the apprenticeship. And so there's three levels. And we went through all three levels in level one and two were huge. For me, level one is like life changing in level two, but when you get to level three, that's when you start like seeing clients and doing all that. And that's where I don't want to say the break happen, but that's where we switch. Because I was like, Oh, I'm good. I don't want to I don't want to see clients. I don't I don't want to do that. And Selima is like "but, I do." So she said so you're doing it too. And I was like, okay, but that's how that's how we started. It was really just doing something like for us. And you know, we had a we had a body care line also. And so we made a natural deodorant. And that came from like, my sister found a lump. And it freaked me out. And so I was like we're going to, we're going to create deodorant. So we created the order and we created base oil and we created this whole natural line. But it wasn't filling the need, right? It wasn't it wasn't feeding us the way we were looking to be fed. And then Selima I'll pass it to you now because Selena was really the catalyst of saying, here's what we're gonna do. Here's how we're going to do it. And as everything we do in life Selima absolutely jumps first, tests the waters, comes back and gets me and then we go together.

Selima Harleston Lust: 15:04

So for me what the journey like yes, Tami absolutely got us started with just changing our lifestyles into more and using more natural medicine. You know, it also changed, our diet started exercising more. And the physical pain that I were experiencing, you know, felt very fragmented, it was a lot of like musculoskeletal pain, hip pain, lower back pain, wrist pain. Also, like adult acne, digestive issues, it was just all of these chronic experiences of going to the chiropractor three times a week, and just being like, this is what I'm supposed to do for the rest of my life. And one of the things that we realized while we were in the mentorship program, and it had been resurfacing was that there was General childhood sexual trauma and just the tumultuous environment I grew up in, and never having just dealt with that. And it wasn't from a place of avoiding it, it was really from a place of I have no idea what to do, like, yeah, this is this is the reality in which I grew up now. And wasn't necessarily aware of how it was impacting until it really started to impact like almost every area of our lives. From our relationship. Of course, my own health was deteriorating, even work and just relationships with other people. I was like, oh, wow, you can really pinpoint that trauma was the problem. And while all the other doors were closing, you know, we were in this apprenticeship program. And that was really the invitation to go deeper. But it's like, I've got no other door, honestly, like, I've got no other door to go through. So I guess this is, you know, this is kind of where spirit was leading me. And so being able to just embark on this, and and, you know, I do feel like when you're experiencing physical pains, and it's always rooted in emotional pains, you can plateau like in your healing, if you can reach a place where you're good, but you're still not like fully whole, right? It'll just travel somewhere else in the body. And so we can just reach this plateau point to where it's like, I want to feel 100% like I am 28, I should not be like this. And so that internal drive just kept me going and realizing that this was the path, but I would say before it clicked, it was more like, I just never stopped. I just continued to honor that I feel pulled to do the medicine. And there was some forward thinking of like, how do I make, you know, a career or a path out of this, but there was also some internal resistance and some, like, what other people are doing is like, not what I want to do. But it worked itself out. Like it does.

mary grace allerdice: 17:51

I mean, like it does when it's the right thing, right? I love the distinction that you made as well and I'm not an herbalist. I don't usually work with people not so much of a physical capacity. But I do agree with and understand the importance of approaching healing spaces where like, I'm not here to fix you. You already know how and there's something inside of you already knows how to heal itself. And maybe you need guidance, maybe you need witnessing I find often is what people need, they need someone to see and reflect back to them, like what's actually going on. And you mentioned that that is part of your process and how you understand that exchange, as well. Do you mind sharing more? Was that something that you learned in your training? Is it something that you've just observed with working with others that this is how it works?

Selima Harleston Lust: 18:44

I think it's a part of my own process where and like our process in the sense that some of the traditional can't even though they're not traditional, but they commonly turned to modalities and practices, you know, with modern medicine with psychotherapy, they didn't work. So we had to figure it out. And the way Tami's mind works is brilliant because she can really take this it doesn't it doesn't matter the topic, she can take the subject and really break it down. Like I go from A to Z. And Tammy like no, we need to go from a to a point one, a point a point three and then be like what, but like the way her mind works, it makes it like it helps you realize that this is something that you can actually do yourself because she literally creates systems. And then just when it comes to the physical body, it's like the body is always reaching toward wellness, when you start to learn and being an herbalist and like you have to learn anatomy and physiology. You have to learn how beautiful these bodies work and it's fascinating. It's remarkable everything that's going on. And it's like how are you not reaching toward wellness every day. We just get so focused on the pains that we feel, you know, like I was having restless leg and so you're just so focused on a leg That takes you know that leg be, you're so focused on that, but you're not remembering that there are millions of other things going on in your body that are working perfectly. So it's, it's, it's interesting, it's how it's our perspective. And it's like Tami's brain.

mary grace allerdice: 20:19

What do you what do you both find? I feel like they're kind of what you're talking about Selima, like, there's, we're able to tolerate a lot of things and call them health, like, Well, I'm not dying, like, my leg is just weird. And I sleep at night or, you know, I just have acne on my face or whatever. Not realizing potentially, that these escalate over the course of our life, usually into something that is much more serious. How would you describe what we call health these days? From a wider cultural perspective? I think I want to start there. Doing Tami'sapproach... doing A.1 question before A.2 question...

Tami Lust: 21:06

I think that, as a society, how is a very low bar. I think that people when people feel like they're just Okay, that's enough. And when you feel great, that's almost so out of the norm, that it scares you. And you almost kick yourself back down a couple of notches, to what has become your comfort zone. And in that setting, that let me just preface this, I am not saying this, from a perspective of everything here is perfection. And all of you have the problem. I wanted to make that distinction that that is not what I mean by any stretch of the imagination. Because this is this is a journey, right? And we're all trying to figure out how it is on this journey. And it's a very specific journey. for everybody. It's an I don't believe that it is, like, here is the bar and everyone should attend to this bar, I think it's a personal bar, what is your personal bar, and figuring out what that is, and adhering to it and being okay, with whatever it is that you need to feel super healthy. So for example, I used to always get so upset at myself that I was like, no one else has to do this, I have to drink so much water, just to feel good, nobody else has to do this, everyone else can just fly by the seat of their pants and be fine. And this isn't fair. And then you kind of like be like, Okay, and then you talk to other people and you're like, Oh, you have to do this, it may not be water, right? It'll be something else. But at the end of the day, everybody has to do something to reach their own personal baseline. And then you have to do even more to advance past it. And I think that in a society getting to that baseline is generally all physical, it's all surface. But the advancement is what's really like that deeper internal work that grunt that what we use a garden analogy a lot, it's really going in and tilling that soil and pulling out the weeds and deciding if you're going to keep the seed right because seeds get planted from all over the place they get from planted from people that you don't know people you do know your childhood, your parents, whatever. But you have to decide if you want to plant that seed. And if you want to tend to it and you want it to grow, or if you want to say that's not for me, right. And that's I think that is what really brings people up to the next level from a health perspective. Because you don't, you won't have all of this internal strife, you won't have all this, give and take inside, when you have set boundaries. And you've said this is what I'm doing for me. And being happy about that. Right? not comparing yourself to anyone else. And keeping that level. So I think if people, I'm going to bring it back and get in there. So people can stop. And look at me, instead of looking at the we. I think everyone would be in a far better place.

Selima Harleston Lust: 24:23

I think health is honoring it, I think follow. Tami said it's honoring your capacity. You know, like you have to listen internally to what your body is communicating what's what's the quality, you know, and the content of your thoughts and your belief system. And I feel like when people try to meet the societal measures of how and they reach that and they still see that they're dissatisfied. I think that's when people start to realize that it's about honoring themselves. And it's not just about looking good or feeling fit, but it's about you know, really tuning in to your personal needs and what's your capacity, how can you You know, be out in the world and serve and extend yourself and still be private or really prioritize taking care of yourself. And what does that mean?

mary grace allerdice: 25:10

I like it. I feel like Ayurveda was the first thing that really helped me understand that that we all have different ways that we tend towards imbalance. And we all have things that we specifically need to do to help us more towards whatever our balances are, or sattva is or our center is. I love the garden analogy, I taught Pilates for like 10 years now I've shifted into other things, but the people the results that they would expect ... I go in, you fix me, I leave, right. And then after like three weeks, we're done. And it just like, you know, you don't like take all the vitamins you're ever going to need for your whole life on Monday, and then you never take them again. You know, we don't weed once, you weed forever. So I love that analogy very much I very relate to that. What are some of the? What does herbal medicine in particular, teach us about the healing process or about the human process? That potentially other modalities don't teach us as much?

Selima Harleston Lust: 26:22

Yeah, I think that the plants, working with plants is such an invitation. And it gives us space. And so one of the ways that I can explain it is because when you're taking herbal medicine, you are going to feel relief, right. And that is then an invitation you have because now your energy in some regard has been lifted, it's not so burdened by the pains of the physical body. And so now you have this space to make a different choice, essentially, like that's when you're at the crossroads of like there were habits that created imbalance in the body. And now you have the lifted some of that. So what what are going to be your new choices from this place of space. And so plants give us that that space, and there's always an open door for us to dive deeper. And to go within ourselves and really learn to listen to ourselves and to be our most authentic version of like who we're meant to be on this planet. Like we can keep going deeper and deeper and deeper into self. And I think that one of the gifts of working with plants too is trust, especially when we all have childhoods, that likely have trauma, you know, trauma with the big t trauma with a little t not to compare like it doesn't matter. But we all come out with things from our childhood that we would like to release. And when we have those wounds and those experiences we we forget that you know our bodies and this planet, our homes, while we're in these lifetimes, and these are supposed to be safe spaces for us. And the plants never violate, like they will they can help you. Remember that you can trust your body. Remember that you can trust nature, remember that you can. And at some point, remember that you can trust people again, especially if you've been harmed by people. There was something else I was gonna say what I forgot.

Tami Lust: 28:27

Um, I think we were just talking about this yesterday, Selima we were having this conversation about plants and the trust thing. And again, because of the way my mind works, I'm a I'm a tester, right. So that's what plants are. For me, it's like, let me It gives me a chance to regardless of what people say this plant is good for. I'm going to take it and I'm going to see how it affects me. So it's a way for me to take this particular plant, and then check in with all these parts of my body. I'm trying to like bring you into my mind to explain what it's like. Because it's almost like matrix See that? It's like these parts of my body are like jumping or not jumping in, everything is talking to you if you pay attention, and it's like, oh, okay, you wanted that right now. Or I could take something in my body like I did not want that. And I think that's really what plants give you. Because yes, from a physical perspective, you're going to gain relief, but you're not going to be enough. Right? And so the the body part that was giving you discomfort, you're still going to be aware of some levels that there was there was a bit of discomfort there. But you're also going to see that there's a new depth that you can travel into, to kind of see what is happening. Why do you Why do you feel like this? What else do you need, and sometimes the plant isn't the thing that gives you the the full resolution, but it's absolutely the key that unlocks the door, in my opinion, for you to walk in, and be like, oh, wow, I didn't even know all of this was on the other side. And that's really what it is, for me, it's like use this as a test in test everything. And that's a way to build trust in your body again. But it's also a way to build a relationship with the plants, because there really is a relationship there. If you allow it to bloom. And when you do, it's magnificent. And you know, when you've experienced it, you want to tell people and you want them to get it just based off of your word. But they can't, right? No one can. It's like you got to dive in, you got to do it to really understand. And when you see a student that had that, aha moment, you get so psyched, you're like, yes, that's what I've been talking about. That's what I'm saying. That's the beauty of plants, right? Because then they bring it someplace else. And I believe that also is the part of plants. Everyone is supposed to approach this work in the same way, right? You're supposed to build a relationship, and then you put your representation out into the world. And I think that's what's so beautiful about it.

Selima Harleston Lust: 31:19

And the relationship that we build with plants, you know, it's really reflective of the relationship that we build with ourselves. Like, that's always a part of the medicine. And it's like, how are you honoring you? And plants are an incredible catalyst to that process of like, just self love. Like we did not come in like you weren't born, hating yourself, like that just didn't happen. So how do we return to that? And plants can help us remember.

mary grace allerdice: 31:47

That's beautiful. Yeah, like we didn't incarnate to hate ourselves.

Tami Lust: 31:52

I think

mary grace allerdice: 31:53

that I love that you also both present such a strong like with the self honoring, but also cultivating like self trust, as and I find that that is something that's really, really important that I do see lacking in people as well. So I think I think that's really beautiful, and especially talking about with the plants that way. What, what is the role of forgiveness in healing a system? Just to ask simple questions. We keep it light, right?

Selima Harleston Lust: 32:38

The system, right?

mary grace allerdice: 32:39

The system of the individual, like we all are just like these, you know, these stacked my girls and and all over the place? Yeah.

Selima Harleston Lust: 32:47

Oh, it's freedom, honestly. It really, it's so hard to explain. It's this understanding that you know, what happened couldn't have happened another way, and being able to release the, the expectation that you can change the past. And I also think there's this incredible amount of like acceptance that has to accompany a process of forgiveness, because you have to accept. And it's usually its relationships with people, right, like, that's where everything breaks down. Where we do all of our lessons is in our relationships with each other. And we are all operating at different levels. In our consciousness, we are all in different places on our spiritual journeys. And to expect someone to have known better, is it I don't think that leaves you individually in a good place. Wherever that acceptance is that this is where they were and with the consciousness that they had, these are the behaviors and the actions and the violations that took place. And I think it's always it's kind of a challenge, you know, hi, the hindsight is 2020, we can look back and say, X, Y and Z was wrong and clearly, but we're not when we're not there. You know what I mean? Like when people are in the consciousness that they're in this, these are the behaviors that are in alignment with that consciousness. So it's just that it's so big. It's so big. But if if you can free yourself from the expectation that it could have been different, then you can really start to do the healing work. And to start to raise your own consciousness like it clutters your mind and your energy to hold on to all of the negative emotions. that you have as a result of wanting the past, I've been different than it could have been. And I like problems and solutions, there are two ends of the spectrum. And forgiveness keeps us or unforgiveness keeps us in the midst of the problem. And when we can release ourselves, we're moving closer and closer to finding solutions to those problems.

mary grace allerdice: 35:21

I think that's a really beautiful way to think about it. We'll work with that one. Tami, do you have anything that you want to add to that? Or do you feel good about it?

Tami Lust: 35:42

Um, Selima and I are a little different because Selima, I think, is fantastic at forgiveness. I don't think personally, I'm that great at it. And so I guess this would be for the people that feel like they're not so great at it, to break it down. Because I personally have to release my ego. So for me holding on to that hurt that wrong, whatever, I almost feel justified in it. And if I let it go, then that means I let you off the hook. And I also have this big balance thing right about fairness. And so that's not fair. That's not right. And so to get you, I'm going to hold on to it. And I'm going to show you, I'm going to hold on to it. And I'm never gonna let this go.

Selima Harleston Lust: 36:32

Meanwhile, that person is out golfing. Right, like,

Tami Lust: 36:36

Right. Right.

mary grace allerdice: 36:37

They're having a great day. Chilling. And so you do you have to? Well, at least for someone like me, I have to break that down and ask myself, and everything really does come back to self right? Does this feel good in your body to hold this just put the person out of it just having this emotion? Does this feel good in your body? No? Okay, well, if it doesn't feel good, do you want to hold on to it? And that's generally kind of where you get stuck, right? You're like,

Tami Lust: 37:08

well,

mary grace allerdice: 37:08

you know, I think I do. And so for me, forgiveness is it's a step by step process. And I have to keep go each step really like that, in my mind, to hit those points where I am. I'm contradicting myself, like, well, you said, it didn't feel good, but you're willing to hold on to it to contradict, and then I have to, like, kind of go through that. Because it's not for me, it's not this easy. Let it let it go. Forgive. It's better for you. Like, it's just not that easy. For me. It, it's like a lot of turmoil. And I would imagine it's like that for a lot of people. But I do believe that you have to get to a point where you deem yourself your mental health, your physical health, more important than being right. Or, you know, ensuring that the scales of justice, in your favor? Yeah. So it's those things, but that that's a process right, you really have to go through the muck to get there. So I don't know if I have a really clean answer as beautiful as Selima, because forgiveness for me is dirty. I can relate to that. I mean, I can relate to both in different ways, but I'm sure that you're definitely sure you're not the only one. You can't you can't really talk about you're talking about balance and the scales and these are Libra problems, and I'm here for them. I'm here for those problems. No, I do relate a lot to that. I love the idea too of also bringing that back to the body like does this feel good to hold this in my body? And then that brings it a different to me a different place of negotiation. I think I want to shift into some more. Maybe potentially less philosophical... easy questions. I always just want to get into people's paradigms and like their I'm like, let's get into your soul in 60 minutes. What are some of the most common ailments or wounds or conditions that people walk in with that you see? And do they have kind of common root systems at all?

Selima Harleston Lust: 39:38

It can be I'm thinking of students, there can be a lot of reproductive concerns. It's like 50/50 of the students who have like really gone through their own healing transformation already and they're coming into the program that we offer women Isn't for the sole to be able to get the skill set to serve their communities with confidence. And then there's the other half, which are really like deep in wounds. But I would say probably the most common, like, autoimmune and reproductive thing that feels about right. Yeah. And yeah, I know especially like it's a predominantly I'm not sure of the term female bodied population community like community. And it's interesting, because we bring in the medical astrology, which is a lot of fun, and being able to decode where it's coming from emotionally. And like, there's other tools that we use to be able to do that, but to really sink into someone else's chart to see where are they holding? their pain, and like, Where are these lessons showing up in their lives? So that can always be a little bit different for each person. But of course, like we know, you know, when we put up issues, we're looking at the moon, we're looking at Scorpio we're looking at Well, yeah, even Mars, like, it can be kind of in different places. But yeah, like, what are those ones that we're holding around our self expression, and our worth, and our acceptance, and of course, like, patriarchy, whatever that looks like, and how people have held on to that. And then autoimmune is generally like some kind of self attack, which I mean it, when you're going in it, it tends to like all funnel into unworthiness and shame. And it's like, how our people are expressing not feeling good enough inside of themselves. And where did that pattern start? Right? With the auto immune that that really like internalized internalized unworthiness and shame. And it's a it's a self attack, right? It's just what the what exactly what the auto, what the immune system is doing is exactly what's happening inside. And also, it goes back to trust to like, can you trust yourself? Can you trust this universe? Can you trust this, this planet? So it's interesting? Like, it's simple, and and it's also not simple at all.

mary grace allerdice: 42:34

especially you're gonna get to things like, Do you trust being alive? You know, do you trust being on this planet? Like, that's actually very common, I found, I don't know if that feels true for you. It's definitely something that I've struggled with. Like, it's safe to be here, and really not thinking that it is. But it's still now that I recognize it. It's something that I have to, it's safe to be here. It's safe be here. Like, I have to always tell myself that.

Selima Harleston Lust: 43:01

Yeah, I love it here. And I love like, when, and this is what working with plants is incredible, because you can ignore people. Look at the beauty that's happening outside, and how it you know, there's so much abundance, and there's so much beauty and there's so much color, there's so much vibrancy, and there's so much that happens that we don't interfere with, like we are not as human beings literally like rotating the earth, right? So it's like, wait, there's so much that's happening. That's amazing. So I just look at that, and appreciate that. And like if we can keep our gaze on nature for a while, you start to you start to bring that into self and start to bring that beauty in. Like it's another invitation. It's like the look at yourself. There's so much there's so much that's amazing. Despite everything that has happened. There's more good than bad. You know, there always is. We just have to look for it.

Tami Lust: 44:15

Though you summed it up. Yeah, that's what I was thinking was be the autoimmune or the other reproductive health. But what I find I'm generally not like in the classes and I'm not like on the calls. Very, very rarely, actually, hardly ever. But the what I do find fascinating that Selena has started bringing that well, she's been doing it for a while now, like you said the medical astrology. There were a few lupus case studies, which were fascinating when she brought in the chart, and then seeing the similarities of People with lupus and the similarities in their chart completely different people, people, they don't know each other, like, you know, there's no and you're just saying like, wow, like you really do have a blueprint, there really is a blueprint that kind of tells you what what's going on or what potentially could go on. And I think that the medical astrology part is been fascinating of kind of bridging these things together to almost unlock that in people's minds and being like, Oh, okay. And then when you can bring two completely different people and show their charts and be like, I can't make this up, right? Like, I didn't create these charts. And look at these similarities, look at these same pain points. And I think that really goes really far and healing from the perspective of understanding, right, so they now you have a new level of understanding. So I think it may be a little bit easier to approach your healing. And also, from a perspective, not that you want people to have the same things you have. But when you're saying, Oh, this person has the same markers that I have, and they too have lupus. So, you know, almost that feeling like you're not alone. Yeah, I'm not crazy. I'm not alone. This isn't necessarily an attack on me, although technically, it is an attack on you. But it's a way that you can look at it and you can change your stars, you know, like you can move things about, it's not solidified. And I really do think that that helps kind of remove a bit of the burden from a healing perspective, that this is not just your lot in life, and you just have to grin and bear it, but you absolutely can change it. And there are all these tools to help you. do so.

mary grace allerdice: 47:03

I totally agree the chart is. So it's like it helps to externalize it for people I find like because like there, we have visuals, we have language, we have an image, we have a map, and suddenly, like they see how it is about them. But it's also not at all like it's also the thing that now we can see. And it's so healthy. I think to in the past, like approaching the chart from a remediated perspective is like this is not your like, this is not your gloom and doom necessarily. It's like now we just see what we have to work with and what we need to remediate and how we can make these energies dynamic and like work with them. No, I think that's so beautiful. And I totally agree. It just people are like, Oh, the cosmos know me. And like, of course they do. It's just this beautiful moment.

Selima Harleston Lust: 47:56

Okay. This is where I was saying to like, where sometimes it is simple, because it's just it's a pattern, right. And it's the same patterns in nature, it's the same patterns. And we're like, that does simplify the healing process a lot. And it simplifies like how we express, you know, our particular place of balance and our places of imbalance, like it's just a pattern. And there's so much order in the universe that didn't make any, it makes total sense that the same emotional patterns, and mental patterns would cause the same physical patterns. And just what you were saying about the chart like it, it provides us objectivity that makes it not so personal. That you have space, you have space and distance between you and your soul view and the pain that you're experiencing. And you see, like, they can be changed, because when, you know, anyway, we really are understanding and we always deepen our understanding of what all the energies mean, in the chart, but when you know, the basic fundamental energy, you know, there are instructions. So it's like, this isn't a question of, what is this about anymore? This is a question of, are you willing to do this work?

mary grace allerdice: 49:04

Agreed? 100% preach? Yep. All of that. Totally. I totally lost my train of thought. It's so gone. Sorry. But you know, it's not your fault. I was so in love with what you were saying whether this vanished from my mind was related. Oh, it was kind of bouncing off what you were saying especially by the time I was getting to like year 10 of you know, teaching Pilates which I was working with, in a lot of ways similar, like people would get to come to me after physical therapy and all of that. And it was after so many years of seeing like it's like oh, my back. Oh, my hip flexors. Oh, my neck, oh, my shoulder and you're like everyone, we all think our problems are very special. And you are special. But you're not like they're not unique, you know, like the solution or they're not unique. They're the same actually the solution is based on your problems that are beautiful because they're yours, but they're not so special that they're that unique. They're really not.

Selima Harleston Lust: 50:05

Yeah.

mary grace allerdice: 50:06

But I think it takes there's something of that objectivity that I found was often a gift for people. And but it takes, you know, seeing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people on that side to really see that big of a pattern, I think. And when we're just in our own story, like, it's hard for us to kind of access that wider perspective.

Tami Lust: 50:27

Mm hmm.

Unknown: 50:28

Yeah. Yeah, it's just like Tammy was saying, when it came to, you know, how she has to manage her baseline of health, you know, I was thinking that I'm the only kind of this the only person on the planet that's been sexually abused. And it's like, no, you're not, you know what I mean? It is it's that like, it like you do you need space between your identity and what your what your experience has been, they are not one in the same.

mary grace allerdice: 50:57

I think I briefly want to ask, you know, you all work together, you're also you're in like, multiple dimensions of partnership. And you are, you know, you interplay in other people's well being, and also your own well being, like, there's a lot of things that can easily compete with one another, like just having a business and yourself, like having a personal life and something that you run is enough to compete, but then you add relationship and all of that. And so, um, but you all seem to do really well. So I'm interested in, you know, what are? How do you keep these things well, in your life? like, what are Yeah,

Selima Harleston Lust: 51:33

we didn't always. we didn't always. I mean, fundamentally, though, we really enjoy being with each other, like we did, that has always been, always remain a constant. Yeah. Like we are. Like, we are best friends, there's not many thoughts. I think maybe there's some more now, that thoughts that we don't share with the other. But I think we had to anything, it's our own work of like, we thought that acceptance, right of everyone is where they are. And people will make the changes and do the growth if they want to, but it's also going to be how they want to, and it's going to move them to new places like that we just don't get to dictate I think some of it has been like just releasing control over who we think the other person should be. Just like, fully accepting, and that was a lot of my work, right? Like, and astrology helps us tremendously and understand each other and be like, Oh, this is just how you are. I am, and then we can decide we can feel empowered of like, yeah, there are pieces that you know, I think that Tami expresses that I really want to be able to exude to, and and vice versa. But we you know, we have to make that individual choice, whether or not we're going to change. And then we've always been really good at like, knowing that change takes time. And like it's, you know, you have this conversation, you're like, yep, I want to be better. And then tomorrow, you do the same. Like, okay, you got a few more days to get.

mary grace allerdice: 53:23

For me, it's like I'm gonna stop counting. Yeah.

Tami Lust: 53:31

We get asked this question a lot.

mary grace allerdice: 53:33

Well, it's unique in a way to see people also like each other still. So yeah, I love Selima. Selima is absolutely my favorite person in the world.

Selima Harleston Lust: 53:46

Ditto.

Tami Lust: 53:47

But it did from a business perspective. We had to. So from a relationship perspective, we've always been really good about seeing what our problem area is, and then coming up with a solution for that problem area. Right. So I mean, you know, when we first moved in together, we wrote up a contract with each other that if this goes south, when we're in our race, but I'm like, don't take your enough. And I'll take my enough and we'll go our separate ways. Right. So when we're in our right state of mind, yeah, we could say this is what we wanted, so that if anyone hurts anyone then when you're mad, you know, it's not this is fair. This is what we go by. So from Asa and a personal and our relationship, we've always had that fairness that has been throughout and not only have we had that fairness, but we've always both been committed to the relationship. So whatever it took, or whatever the other person needed, within the relationship, we're always 1,000% on board to do it, instilling the sexual trauma. starter, resurface I remember there was this book you wanted to marry, I so did not want to read this book. But I read the book to help me understand. We went to therapy, I didn't really want to go to therapy. But we went to therapy, and then neither right when either Royals really want to do it, but we're like, we have to be right. Right, this has to be right. So yeah, we're going to always keep trying these things. And we're always going to show up for each other 1,000%. So that's how our relationship has been from jumping from the business perspective. Because Selena and I are very different. We think things, oh, gosh, I'd say a, she'll say, z, she'll say a letter that doesn't even exist in the English alphabet, right? It's like just so completely different. And so when we first started working together, we had different iterations of different businesses that we would do together. And it would always be this we'd always be fighting. And it was when we hated working with each other, but we loved working with each other. So we're like, we have to figure it out to make this. And so what we have learned, and I use this terminology, there's like a Batman and Robin, there's not two, Batman is not to province, is one of each, and you have to decide in this task. Who are you. And so if you're Batman, and I'm Robin, then I have to trust that you know what we're doing, and I'm going to follow you. And if it's vice versa, then you have to trust that I know what I'm doing, and you're going to follow me, because what would happen is you'd have two people trying to steer the boat, and all we're doing is going around in a circle, right? Like where this isn't happening. So once we got into that kind of groove of this is this is in your wheelhouse this, this is your zone of genius. And I'm going to trust that. Ever since then. We were great. We really been great working together. People ask us all the time, how do you spend so much time together? I have no problem. Rather than time really, there isn't. You know, people also ask us, do you? How do you always have so much to talk about? We always have something to talk about? Always? And I think I know. But I think that's because we're both always growing and always learning. And always questioning. So it's always you know, I have to be driving and Sleeman could ask me like this super deep question like, what do you think about? And I'd be like, Oh, no, like, I'm driving, like, you just asked me you want like the, like a deep answer back. And like, I've gotten nothing in this moment. But that's okay, right. Because when we go out to dinner in three days, or whatever, that's gonna be the topic and we're gonna talk for hours about it. And I think it's because we just keep pressing the other one. And I think the other thing is, Selima is always raising the bar. Always.

mary grace allerdice: 57:54

And I never want to get left behind. And so I'm always like, she's gonna leave me behind. I gotta kick it up. Like I can fall back a little bit, but I can't fall back so far that I don't even see her anymore. I was like, Oh my gosh, I gotta, I gotta kick it up. Because swim is always she's Oh, big thoughts, big, big thoughts. And she's always out there. And like you said, I'm the little thoughts. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, these nice little steps. But then when I look up, I'm like, where are you at? So it's kind of like that good. Yeah, she'll kind of like, slow down so I can catch up. But I will speed up to catch up. And that's kind of the way our whole relationship works. And it works for us. But I will say, because, again, we get this question a lot. And a lot of people will say that they want our relationship. And they're like, it's so easy. And I will say it is not easy. If you want this relationship, then you got to figure out what it is for you. Because this is our relationship. This is how we work. This is my personality and her personality. And we've come together. And so if someone is like, Oh, it's so easy, it's so I'm like this, we've been together 12 years. And this took so much intentional work to get to this point of us saying that we are committed to each other. And then when we decide to go into business together, we're committed to this business of us running it together and see our vision come to fruition. So it's like, you can't have this, you can have your version of it. And that's great. But understand that this takes work. This takes time. And it's not just the kind of work that it's you pointed the finger at the other one saying you did this, you did that. It's more often than not you pointing the finger at yourself and say, Okay, how did I approach this? How could I have done better? What is this bringing up in me? This is all about you being able to do the work on yourself. And it's scary and it's hard and you very rarely look good in the situation. Right? You're kind of like oh my gosh, I was the asshole Right. It's like all of these things, but but that's what it takes, at least for this, right? That's what it takes. And it all and again, I feel like this is what this conversation has been about, it brings you all back to the same thing. It's all about self, it is about you. Because I truly believe that if we fix the me that that fixes the week, I believe everyone is so focused on the outside world, and what everybody else has, and what everyone else is doing. And if everyone would just hit pause, and just look at themselves, that they would make the biggest impact in their own personal life, which then will make the biggest impact in the world. I totally agree. That's beautiful. Yeah. Something that my partner and I were realizing, like, as a point of contrast, is that like, Oh, we actually need more space. Like, we were, like, starting to, like, get into each other's stuff. And I was like, I think actually, like, we need space to interact, like, and then it's just like, tension evaporated. And it was like, Okay, this is our playing field. So yeah, I think you're so right, just like finding out like honoring the relationship that you have. And, yeah, it takes so much all the time. And I have not even been with my partner for 12 years at all. I want to honor your time, so we can either, I can be like, tell us all about where to find you on the internet. Or I have two more short questions. And I'm happy to honor either one.

Selima Harleston Lust: 1:01:26

I'm good. We can go with the remaining questions about your questions. so far? Good. I

mary grace allerdice: 1:01:35

love it. I'm loving it. I'm just one of my favorite. Let's start with this one. Because it's less dreamy. What is one thing that you wish more people knew about their health in 2020?

Selima Harleston Lust: 1:01:50

You can control it.

Tami Lust: 1:01:54

Yeah, take ownership of self No, go ahead.

Unknown: 1:02:01

So it's your responsibility. You know, and this is what 2020 went through as it relates to the easy the pandemic, hand it right back to us, this was always your responsibility. This is always your domain of control. And that's been a big lesson. A pandemic is a really good catalyst to learning that too, especially with our modern medicine that's like, Hey, we're overwhelmed. Please don't come here. Figure it out. And it's like, right. What are you gonna do? Figure it out? Yeah. Totally. Yeah, I

mary grace allerdice: 1:02:36

totally agree with I remember one of my first reaction was like, learn everything about the immune system. And it was like, I was like, my first reaction. And then, you know, for but for I think for a lot of people, it's like, well, we have an immune system. Like it's a like, I already have one. It's like a, it's a new thing. And so yeah, I think that's a good perspective. I think one of the question that I'm loving this year, and I'm interested in your answers is like, whose life or work or imagination is making this year or this moment that were impossible for you?

Selima Harleston Lust: 1:03:14

I'm always talking somebody on the internet. And so my latest obsession is Ava DuVernay. I actually had an obsession for a while I absolutely love her work and love what she stands for. And as someone who like I don't watch a lot of TV. But I make it a point to watch everything that array that she puts out that that she releases because we travel a lot. And we have not been able to obviously, like many we have not been able to travel. And I'm finding that the independent films have been this way to still get that experience out in the world is going into someone else's world. Yeah, they've all the way. Anything she puts out there. I'm signing up for stuff and I'm like, this is like, I'm not in the film industry. Can I get it? I'm all about it. She inspires me so much. Yeah.

Tami Lust: 1:04:14

I don't know if I have one person. Okay. I love hearing people's stories. So I read biographies a lot. I listened to a lot of interviews. I like to say I like hearing people's paths. Like, what did you go through? How did you get from, you know, point A to point B. I'm trying to think of the last, I think Trevor knows was maybe the last biography I read. Selima watched an interview with Matthew McConaughey and Oprah and she was like, Oh, he has a book. It'll probably be good. I bought it from audible. I just, I really just like hearing people's perspectives like I read Shonda Rhimes. The year Yes. Um, that that really resonated with me. Because at the time of reading it, I was a newish parent. And I'm someone that likes to work, like she likes to work. And I was like, how do you manage working as much as you work with your kids and giving them time? Right? Like, what? Like, how do you do that? What does that look like? So I really find myself in a lot of these stories that just come to me because most of the time, I'm not necessarily looking. I'm not quite sure how they pop up on my radar, but they do. And I read them and I see myself in their stories at you know, whatever period if we're at like the same period in our lives. And I find it fascinating Jane Fonda I read what it was that that was a fascinating documentary on her. I think it was a documentary about her. Yeah, no, it was amazing. It might have been on Netflix, maybe I don't know, Fonda and four x or eight x or whatever. Maybe a x ray. She's like 80. But it was fascinating. But it was also fascinating. But from from my side of mine, I also find this fascinating because I love seeing people's patterns. And she was one that it was like, Oh, I see your pattern. And then at 80, what I found was brilliant at at that woman broke her pattern. I was like, can't nobody ever say I'm too old. I was like, This woman is 80. And to me, she had a pattern of always needing a man in her life. That's what it looked like to me. Like you could never be single. And then around late 70s or early 80s. It seemed like she realized that was her pattern. And she was like, Nope, I'm not doing it anymore. And I was, that was so inspiring to me. I was like, Wow. So like, what? So then they asked me myself, like, what is it that you're holding on to that you will let go of? So I think that's really why I love just like hearing all those stories, and then seeing how can I see myself in the story? And then how can I try to push myself forward, which again, I do believe by pushing myself forward, I then help the greater good.

mary grace allerdice: 1:07:14

Love that. tell us if you have anything going on in the world, or maybe it's something that's recurring, and also where we can stalk you and find you on the internet, how you like people to reach out to you, etc?

Selima Harleston Lust: 1:07:28

Well, the thing that we always have going on, I do monthly Astro workshops online. And then, I mean, it's all the information is usually on our social media pages, you can find us everywhere, Iwilla Remedy and our website is I will remedy.com and then our mentorship program, herbal medicine for the soul is open. And that's really, you know, the intention with the work is to really help adults break their cycles of chronic physical pain, mental illness pills, side effects, traumas, everything that we experienced through herbal medicine, emotional alchemy and spiritual alignment. And so that is open those doors are open and yeah.

mary grace allerdice: 1:08:07

Beautiful. I'll be sure to track down those links and things. And make sure that there and I just don't know, do you guys have anything else that you would like to share

Tami Lust: 1:08:17

before we want to add one thing, people generally don't know how to say our company name. And it's I will, and I want people to know that it's not just a random word. It's something that's middle name. And it means I will arise. And when we were trying to figure out a name for business, Lima had always hated her middle name. I think her God for her uncle told her it sounded like a disease. So, you know, we were like, this is perfect. We're gonna name our company this and we're going to turn something that she wants, hate it into something that she loves. And that is loved. And I think I will it is a perfect name for healing. I think it's your will

Selima Harleston Lust: 1:09:09

Affirmation. Yeah.

mary grace allerdice: 1:09:12

super beautiful. I love that I did not know that about your business at all. And I really want to thank you both for I know you have so much going on and just for taking the time to chat with me and just share this about your life and your work. It's just really beautiful. And really thank you for being so generous with it all to me.

Selima Harleston Lust: 1:09:28

So thank you. This was awesome.

Tami Lust: 1:09:31

Thank you so much for having us.

mary grace allerdice: 1:09:40

Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the conversation, please leave us a five star rate or review, subscribe to the show and share the episode with someone else who would enjoy it. Be sure to check out the links below the episode and the notes for more information about anything that we talked about on the show free resources And also how you can join our free group where you can talk about the episode with other like minded folks. Thank you for being here. Peace.