Hoodoo for Everyone w— Sherry Shone

Sherry Shone is a Black, Lesbian Hoodoo worker with years of experience helping clients receive deliverance using Hoodoo rituals, products, readings, clearings and classes. She sees Hoodoo as an accessible healing modality that people of all identities can practice responsibly. Her new book, HooDoo for Everyone is Hoodoo, updated: history, foundations, spellwork and spiritual guidance made accessible to everyone, inclusive of all backgrounds and genders; it offers everything you need to understand and responsibly practice Hoodoo: rituals, conjure, rootwork, divination, herbs, plants and ancestor work.

“Hoodoo is so precious to me because hoodoo was made by a people that needed deliverance, and deliverance is a universal need.”

Sherry Shone is a Black, Lesbian Hoodoo worker with years of experience helping clients receive deliverance using Hoodoo rituals, products, readings, clearings and classes. She has presented her knowledge of Hoodoo in various media, as well through classes and events across the U.S. Sherry is also the author of two books : the Hoodoo Guide to the Bible and her newest book Hoodoo for Everyone : Modern Approaches to Magic, Conjure, Rootwork and Liberation. Additionally, Sherry is a leader in the tarot community: she co-led the largest tarot meetup organization (The Denver Tarot Meetup), was a facilitator and presenter at the Denver TarotCon, and has been a presenter and reader at fairs and conventions for more than 15 years.

we discuss —

• What is hoodoo? And what are some common misconceptions around it?
• How practicing hoodoo helped renegotiate Sherry’s relationship to the Bible
• What to do about ancestral work if you don’t know your family’s history or who your ancestors are?
• Can folks who aren’t Black practice hoodoo without appropriation?
• What is a root worker? And why is it a part of hoodoo?

If you enjoyed the episode, check out —

Episode w— Rowan + Sage

Episode w— Octavia Raheem

More about our guest —

Hoodoo for Everyone : Modern Approaches to Magic, Conjure, Rootwork, and Liberation, book by Sherry Shone

The Hoodoo Guide to the Bible, book by Sherry Shone

Sherry’s website

Sherry’s IG

Sherry’s Tiktok

Free Resources —

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This podcast is produced by Softer Sounds. ✨

thanks for listening. peace, be well. 🙏

Transcript

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Music. Welcome to a homebody podcast my name is Mary Grace and here we explore big questions in embodied ways. These conversations intersect the mystical the Practical and The Artful, bridging a range of topics such as astrology creative practices what healing can look like and cultivating deep love and care for the more than human world. We not only want to live better but live more fully with more connection courage and creativity in our day-to-day lives and work. And this podcast asks what are the ways we can do that. We hope to enliven you and inspire you towards possible regenerative Futures and we hope to encourage you so together we can become Dynamic agents of beauty fully awake Fully Alive to all that life has for us. We want to be here for ourselves and for one another with more grace while making room for curiosity sensitivity. Enjoy if you enjoyed today's episode please take a few moments to share it with someone else and thank you so much for listening. Music. Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode where I am joined by who do worker and Tarot reader Sherry Shone AKA that hoodoo lady. When we sat down to record this episode for you all Sherry and I were both a little ritual hungover still smelling of smoke from the workings of the night before and in this conversation we unpack a lot about who do including growing up in church and how practicing magic changed her relationship up to the Bible Sherry shown is a black lesbian who do worker with years of experience helping clients receive Deliverance using who do rituals products readings clearings and classes she's presented her knowledge of who do in various media as well as through classes and events across the u.s. Sherri is the author of two books the hoodoo Guide to the Bible and her newest book who do for everyone modern approaches to Magic conjure root work and liberation, additionally Sherry is a leader in the tarot Community she co-led the Denver tarot meet up and was a facilitator and presenter at the Denver Taro Khan and has been a presenter and reader at fairs and conventions for more than 15 years, in terms of her own positioning regarding who do she sees it as an accessible healing modality that people of all identities can practice. And we speak more about that perspective and some of the parameters around it inside of this conversation, we also talked about you know what even is hoodoo and what are some common misconceptions or misunderstandings around it as well as what are some of the things that inform her perspective. What did you about ancestral work if you don't know your family's history or who your ancestors are and can folks who aren't black practice who do without appropriation what is a root worker why is that a part of hoodoo and how and why who do centers the need for deliverance and liberation, so this is not the hashtag like girlboss who do on Instagram it's it's magic for people who are seeking Liberation and healing for those who have been hurt or misunderstood or cast aside and, and her new book who do for everyone it's really like an updated hoodoo guide with a lot of like history foundations spell work, spiritual guidance that's made accessible for everyone inclusive of all backgrounds in genders so shone's modern who do goes also in-depth into discussions about religion and cultural appropriation which I think is always a really important conversation regardless of where you land on the spectrum of who can practice and who cannot, so be sure to grab her new book who do for everyone share the episode check out the show notes below for quick access to all of Sherry's links and info to learn more about her work, she also has a free New Year ritual for you when you go to her website and scan the qr-code at the top of the page. Let's dive into this episode with Sherry shown who is that who do lady. Music. Well Sherry I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today I've enjoyed diving into some of your work and all of your just your thought work your magic work your Conjuring and all the things that you're putting together and I'm really thrilled to have you this is great thank you so much for having me yeah it's my pleasure and I would love to invite you to kind of kick off our conversation by letting listeners know you know how would you like them to know you today how would you like us to, no you as we move into this particular conversation that we're having today would you mind starting is that so today I'm just wrapping up the New Year for me and so, today I want to be recognized as a. Sherri shown a new that who lady for 2023 upcoming so that's what I'm hoping for and maybe that will resonate with anyone listening in. I think that as we think of it every I think it's every four to seven years I'm trying to remember the exact scientific fact we shed our. Tongue senses and taste buds. And I think it's so funny that even our body in ourselves we shed our skin we share our house we share our nails we share our tongue cells why wouldn't we shed the old US every year and start anew. I love that I also love we talked before recording that we're both showing up a little ritual hungover this morning there's nothing like it you know you're just. You're tired but you're okay and it's just this heavy and it really is a hangover, yeah for those of us that celebrate and ritual especially when it's late night ritual, when you're out in the I know last night I was out in the middle of my yard my front yard for all of my Suburban neighbors to see my candle and my incense and my prayers and everything else and I'm going around the house with oils and stuff, um it midnight and yeah. I'm a very in-your-face kind of which I'm a very in-your-face hoodoo practitioner so it's interesting after you're done with all of that to have the come down, and you kind of go why am I so tired yeah oh that's why yeah, birth and some new worlds right mining with Spirit last night oh did I get beat up low yeah I feel better now. For sure yeah I definitely go smell like smoke and there's like eyeliner everywhere and like yeah it's a good tool like if your neighbors and think he where we were before now they definitely get ow so yeah definitely are they definitely do I think that many of us are put into the place because we manifest it we put into neighborhoods that are going to accept us and my neighbor actually just got a new car and I gave her a bottle of wash for the car to blessed and protect the car Porter and she said wait you're not going to just do the thing on it are you going to put your hands on it and stuff I've seen you, it's like oh I have to do it myself she was like yeah okay I'll put my hands on it amazing car amazing I love that I love that your neighborhood is just like they're on your page or they're excited about your page there are is kind of like the Hallmark Channel the good witch I think it's pretty funny, that's amazing and I hope listeners hear that they're like oh I can have that that's great you totally can have that you totally can have that yes, well one of the reasons that we're speaking we're coming together now is that you just came out with a new book and. We're going to kind of talk about the book I have some quotes and things that I want to really like here you flush out a little bit more for our listeners but I thought we would start really foundational for the beginning of our conversation with you know like what is who do you know for people who don't know and are there any common misconceptions or misunderstandings that you want to like off the bat just address for people listening, absolutely thank you for asking that so. Hoodoo for everyone is Book 2 and my books about who do so the first book is the hoodoo Guide to the Bible which is available on Amazon and Kindle and all that other good stuff however. Um hoodoo for everyone is the next step in that where I got asked the same questions from people all the time who respectfully wanted to practice who do, who were told that they weren't black enough to prefer to practice who do who were told that that was a closed practice for them and I wanted to open up the conversation again and say that who do is the African American folklore Magic, for those enslaved persons who were directing magic towards become colonizers for their Deliverance period so if you're using the word. In respect of an in honor of black ancestry as a way to get deliverance from something a trauma a tragedy something very serious you know I always say that who do is not just hunting jars when I could go on to you know Tick-Tock or Instagram I see a lot of people that. Use kitchen witch magic and then call it who do because they say oh that's what everyone's using now it's a trend it's really not for me it's something where I don't read my book everyday but I practice some kind of who do every day I need deliverance from lots of things all the time like some of us might have maybe your car isn't starting maybe you need rent or mortgage maybe their social justice causes out there maybe you want to impact the vote, maybe want to impact help with childcare there's so many reasons to use Deliverance magic and to me who do is the way I do that it's everything that I do from my knowledge of black ancestry all the way to why I light a candle a certain way. Yeah I love that and like it's really the centering the experience or the process of liberation is exceptionally magical of course and in the first chapter you were really kind of breaking down, some of the sort of the what is Deliverance exactly and what are we talking about and you know we're not talking about like acquiring a new Crystal or like making Instagram pretty content as your practice may I read a quote from you yes please do he said it doesn't sounds like light and love to me, this is my belief of who do it is for those that require Swift urgency when you can go to no one else when your mortgage is late when an illness isn't going away when your spouse or partner is leaving when you are being evicted when your community is being shot at when your lives are at stake this is what who do is for it's not pretty it isn't meant to be, exactly so true some of the new. Year ritual work that I was doing was around this fear this false evidence appearing real that we're being sold. By the media and by people that are other that don't believe in others. Right where they want us to be afraid they want us to cover in a closet they want us to practice and just think oh nothing's happening because look nothing's happening so what you believe in isn't real. And that's one way to divide us and I think that for those of us that are practicing who even us we're having this dividing line. Where it's what are we practicing if the other start to practice it and my comment back to that is I want people to know what who do. And I want them to feel okay with going through the research the background understanding of the foundations. And then making that lineage connection and if they feel they are still called after all of that then who am I as in this spiritual body to say that they are not right to do what they want to do and still preach. And process eyes really that who do is for everyone because it's inclusive if I cannot be inclusive myself. So it's very interesting to me that division that division is getting. Told to us and soul to us that it's so big and it's so vast that there's nothing that we can do as magical practitioners to resolve it. And I always believe that there's more than that and I use Hulu for that purpose. I put who do in my ballot. I use who do when I'm trying to discern who to vote for I used to do when I do have people clients that want to get help with breast cancer help with lawyer fees help with abusive Partners that's what who do is for and. Some of the time I think that people see it as a hashtag and think oh this is easy I can pick this up but in my book. The first two chapters of the book are really faced on forcing you to look at what who do is and pretty much scare you into not doing it because it's so serious, I mean I think that's appropriate for any magical practice I think so I applaud that approach sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you but definitely it's good it's good exactly I think that you know, in the book I do talk about shared ancestors so if you have ancestry one of the questions that I get asked is I'm adopted can I practice who do I don't know about my lineage The Who shared ancestors that I work with in the book under worthy Fighters, is important to me because it gives you a way to practice hoodoo and an ancestor to guide you. And I have ritual spells to be able to start that relationship. That's really powerful that comes up a lot when I'm speaking with friends and Friends of my circle either you know maybe they're adopted or maybe you know, they grew up without a lot of resources there just aren't the resources to track back and some of them like you know my friends who are black they're like I actually like don't know anyone passed my grandma, you know what there's you know and so that's a really common thing that comes up and this idea of like having you know just connecting with shared interests I mean is about to make me cry just talking about it being able to like plug back into the web and an embodied way is really powerful I think is that some of the things that I love most about writing the book is hearing those experiences after someone has read it. And they feel like this is the first time I've been welcomed into a family. And that's what I want people to read into that's why I've shared so many of my stories I had a reviewer really review harshly on the book with man she shares a lot about herself well one it's my book so it's about me to you're welcome. Do I want people to read the book understand my, struggles with family and relationships and things like that and also my son my triumphs and then turn that around and go okay I'm welcomed into Sheree's that hoodoo lady family, now let me go and start to choose where else do I want to dig into. Do I want to start with DNA do I want to start with that one grandfather Grandma Grand person that I knew. And look a little bit deeper for many of the five of us that are black it is a common experience that we don't know our lineage passed a couple Generations my lineage is. Known all the way back to around 1800 which is rare. But that's because I have a whole bunch of historians in my family because I'm in a family of ministers so you couldn't my wife always tells me you can't spit without spitting on a minister in our family they're everywhere. Everywhere it's just it's hilarious I'm a minister my nephew's dad is a minister I mean just all of us all of us and it's not just our it's everywhere so because of that in all of the Bible's that were historically based we put ancestry and the front of the Bible right and then when you get married you get handled the Bible you get handled you get handed your ancestry so that's why my answer is through so well-known but for those of us that lets say that you came out as lesbian gay transgender queer in any shape or form many of us that's a death sentence to your lineage, you're being brave and proud and in that moment what happens your slap with you now have a severed Chi so. Another reason to make sure that people understand what I mean by who do is for everyone is helping them understand that even them. In the Bible even them in the book even them with the shared ancestry I want you to feel okay using the ancestors. Um the ancestors that I have in the book are varied for a reason there's Miriam Makeba, who is a civil rights activist and also a musician and also a very prominent leader in the black community who passed away there's my father, who was a actually practicing which even though he didn't have that title because he didn't graduate from the 9th grade so you know he didn't have those resources that others did but he was a powerful energy and force he also was bisexual. I lay it out there my lineage is in sex work so I want there to be no shame between myself and the reader and the way that I get vulnerable is by really telling them the truth and that way hopefully they can strip down to themselves and kind of go Yep this is me as well too and I'm welcome because I want you to know when you read my book it really is who do for every form for you and I want you to feel proud in that. That's really beautiful it makes me think too about. You know just the origins of oral tradition right where you know knowledge is rooted in story instead of just like bullet points and information which you know. All of us if you go back far enough like that is our heritage is like telling stories around fires and songs and you know and it's become. It's like somehow now especially from an academic perspective occasionally or like you know it can be kind of like Snapped on where it's like oh you're not just give me the bullet points the raw facts the things that are like proven by the. Government facilitated organization is like we've lost some of the like the richness and the Vitality I think and even just the. The gifts that telling our stories can bring two people yeah I think that all of us are taught. Something equivalent to the ring Shout. And our ancestry and the ring shout is the African American way of call and response. And a circular formation when you're doing any kind of Praise or Conjuring work. So many of us we started off this as kids where we would sing row row row your boat gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream right and after you started singing row row row you would look at your other person that you're singing to or with and they would sing row row. Right and it's that call and response and there's energy and power in that. If I start to sing about the spider going up the waterspout. And you know that story and you share that story and then you're on a subway one day singing about the spider that went up the down the spout. And the rain washed it out then someone else goes back in their memory bank and they all well yeah I know what you're saying I know what your. And all of us have these familiar songs chance versus to bring us more together I feel. Um then again it's about that division that, the minute I talked about the spider going up the spout and you go you know actually that's not for me to know I'm going to not sing about the spider because I know about the spider and I know the song about the spider. But I don't feel it's my place just think about the spider because today is yellow shirt day and I don't have money yellow shirt and over though I feel in my heart the itsy bitsy spider that's going up the spout I feel it and I know where it's coming from but I want to shout it out loud I'm not because I don't have on a yellow shirt today I don't want people to go back into that closet, I feel like we've been in closets long enough, and there's lots of clothing and closets and shoes and closets and great things there's some skis well I don't know what else is in my closet but, the days of our souls being in closets I hope her out. And many of us are still experiencing especially for transgender. Friends and allies are trying to be pushed back into a closet and I think us as practitioners have to do what we can to support. Them in their Journey because if we don't support them one day we'll look up and no one will be able to be able to support us so. There you go that's enough of my my approving my message of whatever I'm saying so Barry go yeah now I related a lot to your speaking about you know growing up in church and I've similar I've spoken about this before and it's something that I really had to untangle in my life where I was sort of taught this synchronicity between. Or sort of that like love and obedience or like the same thing is what I learned and I very much related to you talking about that and how that can sort of my experience of it was anyways that it sort of it really separated me from myself. In a really big way and I'm curious if you'd mind sharing a little bit about that Journey for you and perhaps how practicing who do is maybe healed or been a path towards healing any of those those riffs of that separation and so potentially. Yeah it's. It's hard because it's it's both its it joins and causes you to heal that separation of self. But it also encourages me to continue. To learn more about cell which causes different separations right so when I look at. I want to use the Bible all of the time is a Spellbook because that's that's my like blood that's what I do, in both books I gave a lot of different ways to use different Bible verses for anything else you're doing magical work however there are some parts of the Bible, that absolutely pissed me off there are some parts of the Bible that I believe are bullshit and it's hard for me not to. Deal with that every single time I open this book that I use as my ritual book hmm I think that in that period of I don't know I always count on Grace to get me through it. And so far that has worked. That ability to have like this bomb that says or sad that goes over the wound that kind of says. A good friend of mine granddaughter Crow said that in an improv the best way to respond to something that's inflammatory is yes and so, I use yes and a lot where someone if I have this thing where it says man the bible really has some really bad things to say about slavery about being enslaved about. Being a wife and needing to submit to your partner all of those things I say yes and. Yes and it also says that I'm perfect exactly how I am and I don't need to be married to anyone really and I can stand up for myself and I have, the energy and the power and the ability to be everything I need to be. With Spirits help and I'm going to use that to shape into the life that I need to make it even if that means getting out of the life I'm in. I still have that power and ability and I can still have that same energy and Grace Carry Me Through. Something you wrote so you said I read the Love Story sex diversity freedom from enslavers and drama and wondered if I was reading another Bible than the congregation perhaps it probably was because I was told a long time ago by my great grandmother on my dad's side that I could always tell a different Bible tail if I didn't like the one read to me, that's what I would do with the Bible and how I started changing words around in the Bible without any fear I would read between the lines of the story or make up my own that met my need I guess I was doing exactly what my ancestors have done Generations before me making do with what I've been given to get what I wanted. Yeah absolutely I reposted a Tick-Tock of the story of the talking book. Those that were enslaved were always told well the Bible says you have to be a slave the Bible says you have to submit to us as your Masters the Bible says that you are not allowed to rise up, and they would literally pick up the book once they got hold of one And they would say well the Bible isn't talking to me it's not saying anything because literally that's what they were told. A mat only made it true well the Bible only talks to the colonizers. And so yes it gives more weight into it's not talking to me therefore yes you're right I'm not supposed to be. Anything other than a Slave. I think that there's magic and taking back that power and taking back that. Just The Rains of that wild horse that says. I'm going to go right through and through this this whole Bible universe and I'm going to burn down everything that comes in my path. When I'm using the Bible I'm using it for a specific purpose I'm constantly looking at different verses for health and healing and banishment and protection and blessing and. If I say things that I don't like I'm going to rewrite it I think that's what every good editor writer. Being does if I'm speaking to you about let's say a recipe and I say I want you to use this much time and you say you know what I really like time I'm just gonna throw it all in. Then how many of us kind of go you know that's actually right I'm going to put as much time as I want and you know what it'll be just fine and I think that's okay to do because in all of our worlds, we want to tailor things to our own destiny. It's part of us having free will hmm you know if there's nothing else that I want. People to see when they open up the Bible is they have the will and the ability to change it into anything they want it to be. Especially some kind of healing tool where it's been used to literally and figuratively beat people up against the head. And say this is the word damn it you're going to listen to it and adhere to it and there really is not much you can say about that what. What yeah I have no Freedom at all no you really don't not if you want to worship and what, no no I want everyone to kind of go back and go you know what this is the word of it and I'm going to change this pronoun and I'm going to move this around and I'm going to flip this, and then I'm going to use it and my new spell that I'm doing for getting my rent money by the 15th. And I'm going to now be. The colonizer if you will over that text I know have the power of what's going to be said and what isn't going to be said. And guess what there's nothing that's going to happen to you when you do that. There's really there's no beam of light that's gonna come down and say you know what I said he she Pope isn't gonna drive to your house Drive is little tiny bulletproof car to your driveway, now that's gonna happen really I've tried it I've been doing this for quite a while now well nothing's gonna happen to you the only thing that might happen, is you might become more free yeah I remember that was a huge I mean that's been a that was a big part of. Just my journey sort of kind of coming more towards a sense of like wholeness for myself was just realizing that like crafting are, beliefs is something that's much more like art-making than anything else and I think you know I would definitely put magic into a creative practice as well and just what you're speaking to really reminds me of that. I'm glad to hear that it's and isn't it funny how it seems that. When we're all on a journey it's almost like the aspen tree. Stories of all of the roots being together even though they're in different places Millions thousands of miles away right they all are some of the same root system so when one of them gets LED some place or gets fed or told something through the tree mycelium, then all of them start to do the same thing and I think that many of us that are tapped into the same root system when one of us is discovering something we give it an aha moment and then someone else picks it up, and we're all starting to go down the same path I've heard time and time again it's opposed iums and fairs and festivals that were starting to become shifting. Into a space of togetherness as opposed to fear. Which I think is beautiful because on the other side as soon as we walk out of that Festival. We hear be afraid aren't you afraid of you're not afraid you're not paying attention I am paying attention yes and yes I am paying attention and I'm going to continuously shape my universe to what my value system is. Yeah and I think if there's ever you know a moment that we needed. To reclaim that power not only for ourselves as individuals or even humans for the world and all life in general I would say it would be now. So yeah where I live now there's a 30 year flood that happens in Oregon. And the residents believe, and I do too now that I've been a resident now for less than three years that every 30 years the river is cursed and the river is cursed because the river was stolen from the first native tribes, who fished the river worshipped everything with the river and now it's no longer part of their ancestry it's no longer part of their Birthright, so the river was cursed that every. Thirty years around Thanksgiving to New Year time it would overflow and flood the main streets and it gets huge it gets huge wow. It is said to have continued that and we'll continue that until we give the river back to First natives so, I think it's interesting that even in a town My Town holds about 30 40 thousand people so not that big and it's nine square miles not that big even in a town of, people of all different faiths and walks of life. Magic still exists and it's so deeply rooted that it's supposed to happen again in the next year we're coming up on here 29 and the residents are all gearing up for it and they're all like do you know what's about to happen do you know it's about to happen in a year and it's what everybody talks about and coffee shops and it's what and we're all kind of like what do we do well we have to give the river back to the first natives that owned it. Wow but did you hear it's going to flood did you hear what I just said we have to have Tribal Community there's a solution, just left a big solution and all that I'm seeing that this community is doing is just continuing to say well we're doomed. We are so doomed but the rest of us are screaming right there is a solution. Talk to the tribal communities they give the river back and I think many of us that's the same thing that we see that's happening in our world right now. With the way women are being treated with the way immigrants are being treated with the way just ourselves on our own bodies with disabled or a able bodies and how we're being treated. But I also see I was watching a cartoon with my daughter the other day and I noticed that. No one looked familiar to me and I loved it. Like this is a true fairy tale and there's people with orange hair there's people with all body types there's people with all ability types and guess what they work. The it works. And it's okay and again there's no little bulletproof car coming up to him and going hey hey hey that couple isn't married and they're living together no. It's not cares no one cares and there's and there's a partner couple who has kids of different ancestry and they still are in the cartoon there's no Banning. There's books that are being read that haven't been banned it's just it was such a beautiful expression and I was like that's the world I want to live in yeah and for kids it's so easy and so obvious to the happiest hours this make. Just bring us back to make apologies for what we did wrong and move on. How hard is that apparently it's very hard as we gear up for another flood I just think it's hm, it's true and it's making me think of something that you said that I highlighted were just you know because you saying that who do is so precious to you because who do is made by people that need a deliverance and deliverance is a universal need. Yeah I look at. The events that are coming up with hurricanes tornadoes Bloods natural tragedies. We all need deliverance from something. And some of the time it's very wide and vast some of the time it's just a small as today I wish I could have some fresh water mmm. And when you say those things and you realize. Those are Deliverance needs to I think it brings On to what you're really asking for when you're asking to be a hoodoo practitioner do you want to be that person that's asking for someone to get water. Even if that person maybe something or someone that you don't agree with all of the time hmm. Because if I bless the water so that it's plentiful that means that everyone's going to get it. And still having that ability to say yes I am. I do want everyone to have freshwater I do want everyone to have great air. And I still want us to be able to practice in a way that we feel is right to practice respectfully. Acknowledging our black ancestry I was. Speaking at a symposium and someone asked me who was black enough to practice hoodoo and I said well if we look all the way back. All of us started and Africa so to me. We're pretty much already there it's something where it is used for deliverance and deliverance is so wide of a topic. But so is our ancestry and all of us started from the same root system. And the majority of our causes of problems and wars and fights is denying that root system denying that. I can help you and you can help me you know why because we're both spirits and beans not because we look alike. Or have the same lineage but because we're both beans and we both deserve everything that's. Just comment yeah and it's interesting to me that it's so uncommon to have that love of. People yeah that I mean that's really powerful and thank you for sharing that yeah. What are you know for people who. Would not have previously considered themselves black enough to practice who do what are some of the ways that you recommend. People. Engage with practicing but they also want to practice sensitivity they want to stay in a space that isn't appropriative what are some of the things that you suggest yeah we're one. Recognize that I am one person that speaks for practicing hoodoo and that if you approach someone and they are not, practicers they do not believe that hoodoo is for everyone to practice that you honor that and acknowledge that and you stop asking them questions how you know just don't don't go there don't try to argue way through that because you're not going to win on that but continue down your path next I want you to do some more foundational research on a couple of things one being the Bible and Bible History and learning that lineage but also learning about black ancestry it's not taught in schools. It's not really talking taught in colleges or universities or community colleges so it is up to those of us that want to practice or at least learn about this who understand that yes slavery did happen it wasn't a trade agreement. Um deposit quite a bit of problems for everyone it was a very painful and traumatic period in many blacks lives period,. if you can do that and not try to and a but your way out of it, and say but but it was a trade agreement and but they were they were sold and it wasn't our fault and no no now you're trying to rationalize no bring it all in. And start making those wounds heal those wounds and then. When you're ready to go to the next level start to do your own study and practice with ancestors and start making those connections and some of the time the connections that you make with one of my shared ancestors in the book let's say that you're doing something with a gargoyle, because that's one of our shared ancestors and you want to do work with a gargoyle the first thing you do when you approach the gargoyle you say hello. It's so easy you just say hello and you listen. And I work with you in the book on how to make sure that you're protected first and that you're grounded first and that you're able to listen and many people that takes the longest time is listening to your body and listening to your intuition first, before you go talking to a gargoyle where knows where that bar goes right it's almost like when you bring something into the house like a cat or something and your parents is, do you know where that's been but that damn take that same thing put that car going down do you know where the cargo Smith uh I just brought it in the house might not want to do that might want to wait and play with the gargoyle outside where you let them into your house and it's these simple things that I want people to know that it's just that easy, it appears hard because it's a lot of work it's a lot of spirit work. Yeah I think those is practitioners that's why it's a practitioner we're always practicing we're always trying new things we're always told by Spirit or Divine different ways to approach a problem. With a solution and so when our tool bag we have to have a variety of things we can just have hammers and saws. We have to have screwdrivers we have to have little Pinchers that get out the Thorns that are in our hands we have to have all these little tools that we have the formulate and the only way that we can get those tools is it's almost like a video game you have to earn them. Yeah and then when you earn them then you get the little polar tweezer thing but until then you're trying to get at it with a hammer, and divine is kind of looking at you going I wonder when they're going to ask me for the tweezers I don't know it's fun to watch though it's been fun to watch it's pretty fun to watch let's keep watching yes that's the struggle and that's also the fun too, there's a lot of trickster fun jovial Magic. And her sure where you just bang your head up against the door and then you get shown there was really a path to the left of you. That door wasn't even a fixed to anything you just had to look around it and you go oh really really oh thanks. Yeah I think that's that's a pretty common, spiritual if I'm actually right for sure yeah and thank you for Speed the importance of you know keeping a clean ship you know like, especially if something I'm doing is like new or I'm not sure it's like I don't do it in the house you know like it's where I sleep it's where my things are you know like keep the ship clean yeah let's just keep it clean you know cleansing is such a big part of who to when I have a spell a spell I have a wash for vinegar, um that I use to clean my windshield window seals that I used to clean my doorways because the cleanliness part of this is very important even if you are experiencing houseless NE Sif you have water, and you have your breath work to do prayer work over your water and you can, bless things that are around you that's a way of cleansing if you go into some of the areas where they have free hand sanitizer and that kind of thing, use that to bless and protect the items that are yours in your tents in your car because you still have the right to practice Magic. You have the right and if anyone needed Deliverance work it's someone who's experiencing houseless it's someone who's experiencing mental illness as so many other things but just using water is huge. For cleansing for protecting for banishing for changing energies water is amazing for that I introduced vinegar I introduced salt I introduce ways to use coffee just different things that you kind of go what because when you yeah when you think of it when I was when my great great great grandparents were. In the middle of the part of their lives where they needed the most Deliverance they couldn't run to a metaphysical shop. And say I need a crystal to help me out with this they use animal fats and water and salt if they had it. And it wasn't that much of that because it was. Precious know who knows when you're going to get some more lard so you're not going to make a ritual where you're using the lard. And you're using a cup of it no you're going to need a thimble you're going to need a pinky foal. You're going to use those minuscule amounts and I think that's another misconception is when you do something in magical work you have to make it big in a grin that's a very Western I think ideal. And more nature-based And you say I'm going to take a little bit of your route and not all of your roof because I want someone else to be able to share in that route and it wanted to be available when they need it. It's a community. Yeah I was I was just talking with some friends last night about that just the often overlooked like Domesticity of like the everyday, magic you know, yeah and like what you're talking about like what's in my pantry what T's do I have what do I already have you know already have not what do I need to go by yeah, like even when it comes to the book you know if the book isn't in your library then it's okay for you to ask. You know the the hoodoo Guide to the Bible was published October 31st 2019 it's a good candidate for Library. It's a great like a couple years old, right or maybe borrow from someone or you know there's a lot of different ways to make what you want to have happen happen if you have that energy and you want to move that energy in that direction but if you want to move the energy into the direction of black, there's plenty of that to our share. Sure absolutely I think as we you know start moving towards. Rapping you've spoken about a lot about roots and you know meant talking about like a hoodoo worker is also a root worker do you mind talking more about you know how you define what a root worker is and why that's a really important component, yes route work is getting your hands dirty so I have my own garden in the backyard. I have my own right I have my own trees and flowers and herbs that I take care of in the front yard there are things in my yard and garden that are dangerous because I think plants have both of those Energies, to everyone walking by my front yard they go ooh that's pretty to others they might walk by and go Lemon Verbena I don't know what that's for but it smells really good I would know how to get into it take a little bit of its roots add it to my magic work and make things for a specific purpose and root workers really generally work underneath the surface of that soil. They know what to use and when and what quantities what's dangerous what's safe what to use in tease what to use in saves what to use in poppets what to use in bags. It's a totally different magic than. Using the life force of salt or water or vinegar it's where you really do get down and dirty. It's about knowing that each one of those plants has a life force. And understanding and working with those life forces whenever you're passing by when you pass by a tree many of us that our route workers to the core we touch the tree. We asked it its name we talk to it if we want something from the tree we asked and if the tree says no we listen we don't say. It's just a bad day for you I'm going to take this Leaf anyway no you move on. Many of us that are true work workers that's exactly what we do and we also know what plants to avoid one plant this. Mistaken for one to avoid is weeds I love using weeds and my work weeds are plentiful, weeds are powerful weeds can get in the middle of nooks and crannies where you don't want them to be and put on there all of a sudden flourishing and that's what I love about weeds, and when you think of it as a root worker if I want to, put out a magic that's going to touch every single surface in a small amount of time and totally take over I'm going to use a weed that's exactly its nature. Resilient AF for sure that resilience is their great word that's the resilience is where if I want to use something that's sweet I'm not going to go necessarily to Honey because honey is really expensive. But maybe I go to a flower or a seed like the aniseed who's Justice League. And in my backyard as opposed to trying to take something that's been processed and use that, because who did the processing and who the hell knows where they're you know who knows what happened when that sugar was being processed when that honey was being processed when that you know you have no idea so that's what I try to go for is a root worker. Yeah that's really that's really really thank you for sharing that and you know as we're wrapping it all up and putting it all together you know as we're moving into a lot of, it was sort of a festival season I guess you could say here in the United States anyways you know there's there's it's sort of a season of like celebration and getting together and, all sorts of things lights everywhere which is so great to me I wish there could be lights like this all year round yeah it does look it also just looks very magical and you were speaking about you know these seasonal rituals and ways of focusing on like written word even things as mundane as like email and text and ways that we can participate more consciously perhaps in these things like Thanksgiving or Christmas or whatever Festival Seasons or celebrations are showing up for us do you mind speaking to that, absolutely thank you for asking so when I look at modern ways you know the book says. You know right in the very beginning modern approaches to Magic conjure root work and Liberation one of those ways that I speak of is on page 182 where I talk about banishment and protection text. And in Africa where all civilization began which is where I'm reading Sumerians wrote down symbols and lines that became objects that became words that became our beginnings of magic and written form. So it all started in Samaria so what. We don't realize or what we do realize that for those of us that practice magic a lot is every time I put out a prayer, or a. Wish or a desire in a text and an email and send it off on its way I am putting together a spell. If I say by the receipt of this email you understand you owe me one gazillion dollars and until you pay the one gazillion dollars harm will come to you that is now a spell that you put out to that person. When I text someone and I say it is over thank you for everything you've done for me love that is now your spell. And there's power behind that and I want people to understand that it's organically H it is something that's come from our shared ancestry and lineage, the use of symbols and words to convey a meaning and do the same in your magical work. I think many of us know that when you pray it is something as simple as saying thank you or love you or I want or I wish. Those are all prayers but if I write something the same way and if someone is coming back with anger and hatred. And vile words for me and all I can write back is thank you love you wish you the best. Furious hahaha it's like. How could they say that it was like you just washed over with them and love and kindness, and it just knocked them down seven or eight pegs mmm and you can also do the total opposite and continue to infuriate the situation as well in your work. It's all up to you, it's all up to you and in the book I give you different ways to write ritualistic spell banishment and protection texts and emails that are just as powerful as you sitting in the middle of the night, like what you and I did for New Year covered in Smoke in front of a fire chanting for hours if not moments. It's the same energy as long as you have that intention faith and direction. Yeah I love that especially as we're entering you know where we may have to clash or Collide With People that we might otherwise avoid and our day-to-day yeah yeah it's my, I haven't had to deal with trolls or bullying online per se. But when I do have someone that is trolling me. Depending upon which ancestor I'm talking to I will say something like yes and hmm, and up in the me the the hell that who do lady me that didn't go through the ritual will say oh no and want to come back but but the one listening to my dad will be very kind and courteous and quiet, beautiful because that's what it calls for and I listen to them with everything darn it. I know I know and you're like I would say all of these things but yes that's a good one for me to remember as well. Well there's like a million other questions I would love to ask you what I want to respect your time and our listeners time and so before we close I would love for you to share where people can find out more about you more about your books and your work and if you have anything coming up that you would like people to know about if you'd mind sharing about that as well. Absolutely so for everyone that's listening I do have a ritual that is free for you to use it is going to be found on my website which is the place to find out about me www dot that who do lady.com you can also follow me on Instagram at that who do lady um and you can also follow me on Tick Tock at that hoodoo lady I would love to have you Tick-Tock I focus on. Black ancestry and black or Ally Afrocentric books, literature songs music things like that to hopefully get your education back right because I know I love to get through all of those things really well so and I also repost a lot of funny stuff and then my Instagram is, more is has a lot more personal stuff but I read passages from the book and talk about new things that are coming up, for example I'm in the middle of a couple of things one which is writing more poetry that I don't know what I'm going to do with yet but that's what Spirits been giving me as a lot more poems and I'm also working on Oracle or Tarot deck. That will either a company or be a standalone deck for hoodoo. There are definitely some great hoodoo tarot books out there but mine is going to be more inclusive and modern for the modern conjure worker. Those all sound like great gifts so thank you for putting your creative spirit and your attention and to all of those things and thank you again so much for being here and for sharing your heart and your work with all of us and it's been a gift to me and I'm sure it will be to our listeners as well. Thank you Mary Grace for letting me be on your show and I hope everyone this listening has an amazing amazing day and just remember who's for everyone. You either do. Or you don't and I choose to use my who do for deliverance well thank you thank you. 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